Halloulle
Halloulle
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Agree on the dull totems - disagree on the chests.
Chests have toolboxes very often and if it shows that survs won't be able to push a gen through then searching a chest or two to get a toolbox (instead of starting on a gen, getting somewhere, getting interrupted and starting from zero again when you get back) and be able to greed that gen (especially if you're a guide and can dump both the tb and your ability into the gen at an opportune moment) makes a huge difference.Opening chests is also a viable thing to do when you want to stay in an area of the map; be that because a surv is going to be hooked closeby momentarily or because otherwise too many survs end up in one corner of the map. - Sometimes waiting a moment is the best thing to do in 2v8. - Especially when you know killers patrol the gens in a certain area; don't start that gen for five or ten seconds and then get into a chase with your aura revealed around a gen that ought to get completed (e.g. to avoid too many gens in clustered together) - just stay away from that gen, open a chest, maybe even get a tb and get on that gen after a killer checked it.
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Just asking what exactly you consider a "survivor stomp" - cause counting 0, 1 & 2k (which I'd consider surv stomping) I count 9 — which is still a bit too high. Imo 2v8 should aim for the vast majority of matches having 3-5 survs escaping.
That being said; Killer in this mode has the same issue as surv in SoloQ: if you don't pay attention to what your team is doing you screw yourself over. Now, for the surv role it's kinda understood how that works - killers still have a learning curve.
I see a pretty big difference between afternoon and evening matches; in the afternoon pretty much everyone seems to be solo with the odd surv duo. In the evenings it's a lot of premade killer teams - and 2-3 groups of surv premades with a solo thrown in. As the solo you get overlooked quite often on surv side - and many premade killers also play way differently and are a lot more lethal.
If I have some time on hand I can track ~15 matches in the afternoon and ~15 matches in the evening as well. Might take 2-3 days tho.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3836184#Comment_3836184
?? can you be more cryptic please
what is even your point here? the perk is bad because it works when the strategy is being implemented aka killer goes out of their way to tunnel which is bad exactly why?
It's not at all cryptic. - "Camping, tunneling and slugging is part of the game" is not a black and white thing. It very much is "some forms of camping, tunneling and slugging are part of the game, while others are deemed too extreme and should be counter-able with basekit mechanics". Proof for that are basekit bt and afc.
In my opinion, the cases in which the new perk actually does provide value are also the cases that fall into the category of "too extreme" and should therefore be counter-able with basekit mechanics. -
@Vishlumbra said:
Ok, everyday there’s dozens of posts crying about tunneling or slugging and such. Let me try to help you understand something: That’s the idea of the game. It’s supposed to be hard to survive, that’s the thrill of the game.
The game is incredibly survivor sided. You might say:
“Killers hold a 60% win rate” Yes buuuuut this is considering every single tier, skill and mmr division there is. How many times have you had a guy leaving the game after his first hook? People doing glyphs, opening chests or just being silly and not doing the objective? A lot right? If people played to win as survivors, it would be at least a 70-30 survivor win rate.“We don’t believe you!”
Have you seen competitive games? Every single game the killer has to slug, tunnel and camp hook and most of the times he gets a 2k, with all gens completed in 5 minutes.
Please guys, understand that is part of the fun, beating the odds and surviving. Even end game is very survivor sided. Hatch, unbreakable, keys, doors, adrenaline. There’s plenty of chances to survive, just enjoy the fun and stop trying to nerf killers to the ground, at high MMR is already very hard to win and dare I say, stressful as hell.
"It's supposed to be hard to survive, that the thrill of the game."
that statement and "hard" and "not miserable" aren't mutually exclusive. However, atm, for the majority of people, "hard" does equal "miserable".
And that's what the constant complaints, the constant rants, the constant dcs, the constant 4% and the constant throwing underline. People don't do that because it's "hard". But because it's miserable.
Ignoring that and going "git gut - that's supposed to be how it is" - or really just "that's the point so enjoy what you get" misses the root cause entirely.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3836105#Comment_3836105
>Well, if [insert perk] is a solution to a basekit mechanic it already missed the point.
not when a mechanic is a legitimate strategy.
the perk is very powerful as a rock/paper/scissors counterplay, on part with unbreakable or reassurance, the only difference is that due to the way it works, it takes skill to use and not throw the game with it.
While devs have said in the past they consider camping, tunneling and squad slugging legitimate strategies, we have also learned that it doesn't come with a carte blanche (otherwise neither basekit bt, nor what they call afc would be a thing). There's a line. - The way I see it, this perk is only useful once that line has already been crossed.
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Well, if [insert perk] is a solution to a basekit mechanic it already missed the point.
On average it'll incentivise proxy camping; it's even better than a trade. Make someone go from fresh to death hook within 20 seconds. Yum.The only situation where it actually benefits the survivor side is if the skill gap between them is so large that a surv who shouldn't be in that match because they're too good protects another surv who also shouldn't be in that match because they're not good enough. - For swf who know about these skill gaps that might be an option; a chase affectionado that gets left by the killer, who wants to find the potato, can keep that potato in the match for longer. ….. Which I think is not the way to go.
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Interesting that apparently staying near the hook to get closer to completing the objective is equated with the action to simply end the match when all obejctives are already completed.
If anything not immediately leaving is comparable to not immediately hooking a survivor for no reason other than wanting the mori. The 3k is a win already, no need to win harder by forcing the other player to stay in the match. But even there the difference is that a killer with survivors in the exit gates has agency; they can go somewhere else on the map or can push the survs out, speeding up the process. A slugged-for-mori surv doesn't even have that. All they can do is wait. -
Sure, killers have slugged for the 4k before - but just because it was bad before doesn't mean it isn't worse now.
However, the lengths to which a significant number of killers are now willing to go to get that mori are, quite frankly, ridiculous. Also, during all the time of slugging for the 4k I haven't experienced a killer picking up the last survivor several times and re-downing them until they got them "in the right spot" and I also haven't experienced killers slapping the next-to-last surv on hook non stop because apparently they feel not only entitled to getting a mori but also to getting it asap.
If you say "a generator pops within 45-50 seconds" that sounds like this is the average time. If that were the case, your average scenario is essentially the best possible scenario (current world record is at what? Just shy of 3 minutes? With the whole swf being completely decked out for gen-rushing?) which, one, seems fairly unrealistic and, two, begs the question if survivors should only be allowed to have a chance/play the game if they play with literal world-record speed.
If you're referring to the first gen popping within 45-50 seconds… that's to be expected? The first gen will usually be the fastest, the first two, even. Just like the last gen will usually take the longest and be the hardest to get. -
For me: BP incentive, Event offering, Q-times & the occasional pumpkin on the way.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832346#Comment_3832346
I deal with survivors hiding all the time. I say when the 3rd survivor is killed force the last survivor to get chased to be able to win. It’ll be a fresh and new mini game for survivors that I’ll take anyday. Imagine looping a killer for let’s say 2 mins while everyone is dead. Wouldn’t that feel good? Then escaping right after for lasting a certain time? The trap door is extremely pity us killers get nothing I mean they added basekit by and haste during endgame…
for two minutes (which is more than three times the intended chase time) on a dead map? That's neither "fun" nor "a mini game". That's straight up encouraging the killer to power trip at the expense of the other player.
Once only one surv is left the killer already won. Everything else is just to a) make the game end b) not make that a miserable experience. It's a game of roulette. The match is already over. Both sides now have the fun mini game of looking for the hatch, whoever finds it first gets to end the game - and that's all there is to hatch.The Mori was supposed to add a "and if the killer finds the surv first, here is that cool other thing" — which has already been ruined by a fair share of people being absolutely hellbent and unsportsmanlike about forcing that "cool small feature" (the amound of times I've been slapped on hook non stop as the next to last surv is mindboggling).
Killers are not entitled to a 4k or a Mori.
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@Crucifilth said:
Listen, when you have one side of the game with more people, odds are you're going to have more people who DC, kill themselves on hook and/or bodyblock and willingly throw the game. This happens at any skill level because like I said, most survivors get salty that they got slammed and decide to DC or kill themselves on hook.
And then you have the trolls. The people who don't do gens, don't heal, don't unhook teammates and of course, bodyblock and "troll" their teammates.
What I'm saying is, when you have more people on one side of a match. That side will more than likely have terrible people on it.
I've played countless survivor/killer games and have seen so many instances of survivors DC'ing after one down or just blatantly not helping their teammates and people seem to wonder why the win rate for survivors is so low. It's because of you guys.
And don't even get me started on the survivors who say, "When i see [killer], I DC" Like cmon guys, give me a break.
granted, if every one in however many players is an arse, that arse is more likely to end up on the surv side (assuming arses don't prefer playing as killer).
— Though, if that had an effect on overall killrates, it would only mean that a quantitative approach to balancing this game would not work. You'd have to do closed testing with verfied non-arses that are still representative of the whole playerbase and use that data for balancing.The question: Does it actually have an effect on overall killrates? Is it causing killrates to be higher than they normally would be? — I'm inclined to say no. There's a counterweight and that's called farming killers - or just nice ones who don't feel like taking a free 4k cause Jimmy decided to off themselves on hook at five gens. There's also a fair amount of killers who go out of their way to "punish" a surv who went against their rulebook and throw an entire match just to tunnel them out and bm them. — Plus, occasions where there's a pattern of players consistently quitting against certain killers/playstyles have to be taken out of the equation (cause that suggests it's an issue with the killer/playstyle).
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Tbh at this point: if two survs are sacrificed just actually end the match and balance accordingly. - Actually lean into the stomp or be stomped. Either ll or nothing - no close matches anymore. \*s
seriously though; any solution that aims at ending the match quicker once it's 2v1 and one's a slug does effectively do that.
At this point the best surv experience is to not want to be one of the last two. Get OTR and/or DS to not screw the other survs over if they for some reason want to try and just make sure you get out of the match as one of the first two while collecting as many BP/challenges as possible/doing as much of what you like to do during a match. -
@Emeal said:
1 of 4 Survivor is forced to watch 5 second longer game ending animation in a 4K game: "I hate it, change it!"
Killers who have watched hours of Survivors t-bag at the Exit Gates: "Wow, that must really be tough for you huh?"
My point is, You will be fine and if we really cared we would have done more for Killers earlier.
more like ~15 seconds. - And a kilelr who really doesn't like people in the exit gates can force them out quicker than that.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830790#Comment_3830790
I did already run through that in the main post, but I don't mind repeating it a little bit.
So, generally, there are four sorts of use cases in mind here. There's preventing yourself from being revealed early, there's making certain actions safer to complete without being revealed, there's making chases less risky by blocking mid-chase auras, and there's protecting yourself while you're vulnerable.
Distortion is still the king of stopping you from being revealed early. It stops Lethal Pursuer from activating at the start of the match, and even as late as the first hook or so, you can be safe from aura reading if the killer doesn't have Lethal. Distortion also works against something like Nowhere To Hide or even Undying, random situational auras that also let you avoid them if you know they're there.
When it comes to making certain actions safer - generally referring to generator repair and heals here - Distortion still functions but is somewhat less reliable. That's where Shadow Step comes in, because with a little setup you can have a zone where you're safe from aura reads. Set up Shadow Step near a generator and you can be reasonably sure the killer won't snipe you with BBQ or Friends Til The End, as well as being safe from Nowhere To Hide until the killer snuffs your boon.
Blocking mid-chase auras like I'm All Ears, Predator, and Zanshin Tactics, Distortion and Shadow Step are roughly equal, with Distortion being more reliable due to the lack of range restriction but Shadow Step having an extra effect that helps in that area. Both valid choices, both useful.
For protecting yourself while you're vulnerable, all the perks work, but Off The Record is the best because it's the most potent when you're the most vulnerable. This is slightly cheating because OTR is already an anti-tunnel perk, but some people have legitimately expressed concern about auras leading to tunnelling after the Distortion nerf, so it's worth mentioning.
In short: What perks are giving you trouble? When do those perks activate? Answering those two questions can help you figure out the best counter pick.
mhhm. - Nah, sorry to say. But I don't find your argument of Distortion being usefu compelling (the uses you outline, Lethal aside, depend, at the end of the day, on luck. You can never count on Distortion being available to you to use purposefully simply because you can't reasonably set up tokens or decide when you spend them. - If you could press the ability button and for the next X seconds your aura will be hidden if it is being read - sure, then you could actually use it in the strategic way you outline. But as is? Nope.
The boon isn't much different. Between setting up times and you virtually never wanting to chase around a progressed gen you're actively hindering yourself and the other survivors. If it comes to blocking BBQ, Gearhead etc. it has the exact same issue as Distortion allegedly had: you won't show up for the killer as long as you're on that gen hence incentivising the killer to go after the other teammates. The boon could also allow you to just hide all game in a section of the map with a hard to spot /reach totem. — In other words: the boon has all the downsides of the "bad faith" uses of Distortion with none of the upsides. -- Not to mention you can only cover one tile with the boon - so even if you set it up for chase you won't get value from it, simply because you realistically don't gain more time from having the boon active during chase than you expend setting up the boon. - That is if you even get to use it at all. Or do you think it's at all viable to just bless every totem you plan on somewhat staying near?
— And did you just call the aura blocking effect of OTR cheating? The necessary side effect of that perk because it usually outperforms the two perks that are supposed to have aura blocking as their main function? -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830765#Comment_3830765
There are three viable ways of blocking auras in the game right now, so I think the message is more that you should have tools to help against being revealed, but none of them should be so perfect that you never have to be chased if you don't want to. It's also worth mentioning that aura blocking is just as much for making the chase you're currently in more favourable, as it is for hiding from chases outright.
I would (and have, and am, that's what this thread is) argue Distortion is very reliable as long as you have a specific use case for it in mind. The way the game is right now, you do have to think about which auras you want to block and pick your perk accordingly, but once you do that they're all pretty reliable at it.
Given the other posts in the discussion it does seem pretty clear you're somehow convinced by what you say and that Distortion is reliable, as is the boon. - I think neither is reliable or sufficiently useful and OTR isn't even comparable since it has a different primary function to begin with (and saying a perk dedicated to that function should still not be able to compete with a side effect of another perk… well…). So for the most part I'd say: I guess we just disagree.
"I would (and have, and am, that's what this thread is) argue Distortion is very reliable as long as you have a specific use case for it in mind. The way the game is right now, you do have to think about which auras you want to block and pick your perk accordingly, but once you do that they're all pretty reliable at it. "
This one though… — Please do elaborate on what exactly you mean by "you do have to think about which auras you want to block". Just run me through a scenario of the "if - then" kind to help me follow the thought process that goes into thinking about which auras I want to block. -
Well, I don't usually bring TBs (except there's a gen challenge in the tome) but if I do bring one I usually use it on a progressed risky gen to get it out of the way or on any near-completed gen when a chase is about to end to avoid a nearly done gen getting painres-ed or popped.
I generally don't consider FD. It's not in play very often and if it is which gen to chuck you tb in is the least of your problems. FD (+Weave attunement) killers are just as obnoxious as Boil Over survs and I generally just want those matches to be over.
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Distortion is not in a good spot right now. With the slight reversal of the nerf where they adjusted the numbers it's not entirely useless but it's way too unreliable and yielding way too little value to justify using a perkslot.
Which I suppose is why it has dropped from 9-10% (which made it a popular but not omnipresent choice) to 3-ish%.
The message from the devs is clear: Killers are supposed to have a way to read aura any time they need, offering enough perks to do so to fit any killer's playstyle. Survivors on the other hand are not supposed to be able to get away from chases or hide from the killer.A questionable choice, in my opinion, but it is what it is.
Now, the other way to deal with aura read is "to play around aura read perks". However, for that you need to know which aura perk is in play (which is extremely anything-but-vets-unfriendly) — which given the myriad of aura perks is impossible at this point; there are too many potential activation conditions being met at nearly any given moment during a match. This makes it effectively impossible to "play around aura reading perks" or "adapt how you play". That is what makes it feel so miserable.
At the absolute very least survs need to know when their aura is read and by what. (You know, like how hexes work in that regard) -
@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830283#Comment_3830283
No it’s literally not at all whatsoever. It got buffed. Factually. It happened. It would be misleading if it didn’t happen. It released and a weak later it got a buff. It got buffed and I said it got buffed and it factually did.
You’re wrong. That’s also a fact. Nothing misleading at all whatsoever.
I'm starting to think you don't know what "context" and "misleading" means.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829532#Comment_3829532
Short list of reasons why some survivors hook suicide / dc (there is one for killers as well):
- Oh no, I was found first.
- Oh no, X pallet is gone.
- Oh no, my teammate went down quick (and that can mean everything from only a few seconds to literal minutes).
- Oh no, my teammate triggered X perk.
- Oh no, my teammate uses X perk.
- I failed a skill check.
- My teammate failed a skill check.
- I tried to greed the gen but was grabbed.
- The killer tunnels.
- The killer camps.
- The killer slugs.
- The killer uses X perk.
- The killer uses Y addon.
- The killer uses Z skin (not kidding, that has happened to me before).
- It's XYZ killer.
- It isn't XYZ killer (yes, I have seen people hook suicide because it wasn't whatever new killer came out).
- It's a map I don't like.
- It's map variation I don't like even though I brought the map offering.
- Someone else brought a map offering.
- I ran into the killer and they hooked me again.
- I sat on a gen right next to the killer and they hooked me again.
- My teammate failed a flashlight / pallet save.
- The killer outplayed Head On.
- The killer mind gamed me.
- I am hooked in the basement (this happens even when I play pallet Freddy).
- The killer interrupted my heal / boon / totem cleansing.
- The killer found me even though I went into a locker / was hiding behind a rock.
- The killer is playing hit and run.
- The killer drops chase.
- The killer doesn't drop chase.
There are at least 50 more points but I think you get the idea. Some people rage quit at the earliest inconvenience. The killer is supposed to be an obstacle, so they will inconvenience you.
If these people genuinely don't want to play the game, then they shouldn't queue up. We all know that these things can happen and we comply every time we load into a match (as long as it's not strictly against the rules). Is it really too much to ask for you to play the game you queued up for?
You kinda did completely disregard the qualifying statement. If you tell someone to "tough it out" you already acknowledge that they have a miserable experience - otherwise you wouldn't tell them to tough it out, you'd tell them to not be petty about a minor thing. Demanding people that you know are having a miserable experience stick around and endure said miserable experience for your entertainment is something I believe is pretty low.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829539#Comment_3829539
It is for a fact a buff though and can not be argued with at all. They halved its token regen time after the PTB.
And phrasing it as such while ommitting the context is misleading.
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I didn't know the degree of end game slugging could be increased - yet here we are.
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Just like how "if slowdown is made stronger they'll stop tunneling"? Hate to break it to you: that spectacularily backfired.
at this point any amount of slugging for a mori is flat out bm and should be made impossible. I propose: if the last surv is slugged they automatically get hatch. At least that way they get compensation for being robbed of any agency for several minutes. If a killer wants a mori they gotta have to find the actually last survivor. -
@Wraff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829532#Comment_3829532
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829540#Comment_3829540
I dunno if I agree with the sentiment that DBD need's to be taken that seriously. Especially if the game is really not fun and falls into the 'your fun isnt my problem' camp as stated before.
Oh, I don't think the game should be taken that seriously. Dunno if it was clear, so let me make it very clear:
One side making the match miserable to the point where the other side has to "tough it out" and stating "your fun isn't my responsibility - just suck it up, tough it out and play out the match!" is beyond hypocritical - because the only reason to say that is because the second sentence goes "because I want to have fun". If one side decides the other side's fun isn't their responsibility (in the "at least don't make it miserable" way), then, well, that other side also doesn't have any obligation to keep them entertained (aka why th wouldn't they go next asap?).
If a side wants to take it that seriously they can go scrim. If they want to pretend a pub game is a scrim they can go play by themselves. (Regardless of the the side, though as killer it's much easier to have agency in what you actually end up doing during the match regardless of what the survs try to do.)
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829347#Comment_3829347
It got buffed to buffed to be 15 seconds to regain a token instead of 30.
given the timeline calling that a buff is misleading. It's what should have happened after thr ptb already; it's a slight number tweak to the nerf. turning it from distortion being absolutely obliterated into nerfed.
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Some things do be wild - and the blatant cheating of some is hilarious. They dont even try to cover it up with aura reading perks/addons. And it does seem to be a bit worse now than it has been for a while. --- but it's a never ending battle for bhvr. Don't even know if it's as case of which they did lore or whoch they could do more against it
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well, if people have to "tough it out" then they actually do have a pretty good reason to want to be in a different match sooner rather than later. In that case the side making them have to tough it out already stated "your fun is not my responsibility" through their actions. And well, that kinda statement is a two way street.
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I do admire your creativity - though what is it that incentivises tunneling? For one that it's possible, true - but the winrate achieved by turning a 4v1 into a 3v1 asap is disproportionately high. Any incentive based approach to precent tunneling would have to yield results at least as good as tunneling. Keeping survs longer in matches like that just means they're a punching bag for longer.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828879#Comment_3828879
So the counter to flashbangs is slug as they can't hook... But people don't like slugging so they want a counter to it. Means killers can't hook or slug. What's a killer to do? Basekit counter to slugging is the team, they heal you. If you want to go solo and counter it yourself then yes a perk should be used but it's a team game so the team is the basekit counter. It doesn't help the last survivor but that's because if the last survivor is slugged then they are already pretty much dead
I find slugging overall annoying - however, there are generally called for situations where both slugging and camping are perfectly alright. - I'm referring to slugging for mori specifically.
The team is no counter - in no situation. Going a bit on a tangent here; Dbd is about four individuals happening to have the same objective (completing gens) - that's the extent of "team" as per the devs definition. Any "altruistic" action a survivor takes is aimed at that objective. (Which is the whole problem of the 2v1 situation in general)
If anything the slugging for mori thing is comparable to survs not leaving the exit gate. The difference there? The killer has agency in getting the survs out; if they don't want to wait it out they can always slap them out the gate. The slugged survivor has zero agency. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828845#Comment_3828845
Pretty much like killers have to run lightborn all the time. It hasn't been that bad since flashbangs was killswitched but since they have been activated again lightborn is a must for a lot of killers because it can be nearly impossible to hook people with so many flash bangs and flashlights.
Experiences clearly vary - but neither I nor (killer) streamers I watch see nearly as much fl/fb as there's slugging for the mori. It's a far cry from a must. - Besides. The killer has a way to deal with it basekit: not pick them up without thorough checking. The absolutely only way for a survivor to deal with being slugged as the second-to-last is to equip a perk that allows them to pick themselves up.
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@indieeden7 said:
You could say the exact same thing about survivors' aura reading perks though. You drop a pallet in chase? Aura read. The killer breaks said pallet? Aura read. You finish a gen? Aura read. The killer hits another survivor? Aura read. You get unhooked? Aura read. Once you start to identify when a killer has a perk that reveals your aura, you should be playing around it. Pretending not to know that the killer can see your aura is the perfect opportunity to mindgame, and taking that opportunity can be extremely fun and rewarding.
"Once you start to identify when a killer has a perk that reveals your aura, you should be playing around it."
The problem with the myriad of aura reading that's in the game and that keeps getting added is though, that it's virtually impossible to tell if a killer has aura read or what prompted it. If it was just a handful of options - sure. I'd be 100% behind the "just play around it" angle. But in order to play around something you need to be able to reliably identify that something. Which you can't. - If they at least did it like in the 2v8 where you got the icon when your aura was being read by a killer, I'd say: sure, use your brain and figure it out. But as it is, nah
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Off the Record's aura effect isn't cancelled by a conspicuous action. Also Shadow Step exists and Distortion is pretty good now after it's newest buffs.
There is a lot of aura perks being run now, but that's partially because there isn't really anything else to run aside from slow down which people also don't like to play against.
- Non-aura tracking perks are awful so why run them.
- Chase perks are mostly mediocre aside from Coup and Bamboozle on a select few killers. And a large chunk of the cast can't even use the basic attack ones. STBFL was the only one they could use but that could nerfed.
- Stealth perks are generally pretty bad and already stealthy killers/lullaby killers can't use them.
- Exposed perks are too situational and again don't work on a large chunk of the killer cast.
- I don't need to explain why hex perks are awful.
The unfortunate truth is that if anything is useable in this game, generally it isn't fun to play against.
excuse me. Newest "buff" to Distortion? You mean the slight backpedalling on nuking it? Shadow step exists and someone who manages to get consistent value from it will be even more useless than that apparently omnipresent Distortion user who does nothing but hide all match.
"The unfortunate truth is that if anything is useable in this game, generally it isn't fun to play against." — That one I wholeheartedly agree to though.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815691#Comment_3815691
Don't worry, we're investigating just in case!
One added question: What is the "intended Q time" if things are distributed evenly and there are no incentives?
I agree that the BP bonus seems off and not matching the Qtimes — but then again I'm used to playing when the incentive is 100% so maybe I just got used to way faster matchmaking?I also don't see why the bonus-pattern would have changed so drastically so suddenly - but between modifiers, game changes etc. you never know how players react and how that affects distribution. - So another question would be: do your numbers show a shift in which modes/roles people choose to play?
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Genuine question
Do you bring any anti slug perks? If so, which.
I wanna know how many people are actually using existing tools or not.
That's asking people to reserve one perk slot at all times aka making a perk obligatory to run. - It's also the exact reason why BT is basekit. No perk should be obligatory to run to deal with a base game mechanic. In case of bt that was unhooking. In case of finisher moris that's slugging the next-to-last.
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Aww - always loved when a wild Peanits appeared.
Hope the new position is fun!
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@maipace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827439#Comment_3827439
Yes. I mean the red scratches on the floor.
A bug was previously reported where the scratch would permanently disappear after using a smoke screen, but that was never fixed, only the simultaneous attack of the killer was treated as a problem and removed.
Well, if the bug is reported I assume bhvr is looking into it. If they can fix the bug before the event is over, is a different issue. If it's a very rare bug (personally, I haven't seen it playing killer or heard about it from friends playing killer) it's probably not very high up on the list of priorities.
Knowing about a problem, that problem being significant enough to warrant a fix and being able to fix the problem are three different things. -
@maipace said:
I see.
It certainly is hard to be deprived of the means to fight back.So what do you think about the problem of the survivor's scars completely disappearing during that ritual when the smoke screen is used?
This is obviously not normal behavior, and from the killer's side, the means of counterattack to pursue the survivor has been taken away, but I would like to hear your opinion.
do you mean the red scratches on the floor? I'm not aware of the scratches disappearing permanently. - If they do disappear permanently, this should be fixed too.
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As others have mentioned while speeding up the 2v1 part is a good idea generally, it would have to come with a change in mechanics. As it is just revealing auras/killer instinct or whatever would just lead to the match being over at 2v1, in turn leading to strategies that aim at removing one player at a time as fast as possible becoming the absolute best strategies (and they already are). - That in turn leads to an even worse surv experience.
In a 2v1 situation survivors need a viable option to continue playing the match; imo the best way to do that is that at 2 survs left it's "every (wo)man for themselves" and survs have a mechanic that allows them to individually escape / creates a small window of opportunity for both to escape. Idk, something along the lines of progressing surv objectives and being in chase gives points (similar to the event) and once the bar is full you can interact with the gate to open it for a short time (5 seconds?); when you start interacting with the gate your aura is revealed to the other surv (maybe only if their bar is full or they are currently in chase) so they have a shot at sneaking out as well. Since this would put the two survs at an advantage if many gens are left (just circle around; barely touch and move on, play it slow) I'd also be all for killer instinct after every 30 seconds of not-interacting with an objective. The chances of one, or even both, survs escaping that way are pretty slim, I'd say - especially since the map should be a massive deadzone at that point - but it gives a proper incentive to actually try. — For all I care hatch could then also be done away with, since the last surv has a viable way to get out without it. — Survs would need some kind of basekit UB/other mechanic to counter excessive slugging though. Once it's 2v1 the match should be over within two minutes max. There should also never be perks that affect that stage of the match (i.e. speeding up or slowing down the bar fill)
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@fussy said:
I have a lot of fun with smoke bomb, one of the best things they did, but I guess you guys will never be satisfied. Maybe just not your game?
The only truly useless event for survivors was that one which gave Coup for killers and Iron Will for survivors on crouch, but literally every event same people complain here that * put event's name here * is useless.Care to share some clips of how to make use of the smoke bomb? Cause all I've ever achieved so far was making a killer whiff once - because they can't see - just to be hit two seconds later after hit cooldown - because I can't see either and ran into something.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816163#Comment_3816163
There's far fewer cases where survivors will never be in chase compared to survivors never being in TR. Also Distortion was already hard to regen against good Wraiths and Huntress since Huntress has a small TR and damage you at range and Wraith can stay cloak until they setup for a lunge.
With the buff to 15s, it'll be a solid counter against I'm All Ears or the new Predator since Distortion also hides your scratch marks meaning you should be able to easily lose the killer.
Overall the perk rewards keeping the killer busy and the nerf overall means the dev have an easier time adding in new perks that block auras without Distortion being the defacto best in slot.
Granted, there were killers where Distortion effectively never recharged, that's true - but I think overall it's a lot more common to not have a sufficient amount of chase than a sufficient amount of TR.
We'll see if the 15s make an actual difference (though, once again, the strongest killers are pretty much unaffected; if they get the jump on you via aura read, they'll still get the jump on you and you'll be on second hook by the time you get one token back).
Idk, I see Distortion getting more tweaks over the next year or so.
- I could also see tokens recharging both in chase and while doing a gen (idk, 50% gen progress equals one token or something like that). The complaint people had was about people with Distortion "not doing anything but hiding" and "being useless because they're just hiding all the time". Doing gens is quite literally the objective so if someone wants to play the stealth game and still progresses the objective I don't see an issue with that. - Except bhvr decided playing for stealth is not a mechanic they wish to keep (which is, tbh, the impression I've got).
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I mean, sure, if every killer turns into a 115 M1-only killer after hatch is closed and gates are a certain distance from each other and there isn't any point on a map where a killer can have FOV of both gates - sure. We can block them for 15 seconds after hatch is closed. - Make it an even playing field; make it a big mind game. Might actually be fun.
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the reduction to 15s makes it quite a bit better. - Though, given that there's plenty of killers where you effectively don't have chase is what makes the whole while-in-chase-thing a mit meh. But for that chase as a mechanic needs to get overhauled. - You can have a three gen chase with a Wraith and still not even have thirty seconds of chase according to the game. You can dodge a huntress for three gens and not have a single second of chase. And so on. It's not all killers but it adds yet another level of conditions that are out of a player's hands and make it miserable. —- That being said; I don't hold my breath for the chase mechanic to ever get changed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814757#Comment_3814757
Hard to say. We really only have BHVR's word on MMR and player distribution. Other sources claim differently, but I'd wager that they're script kiddies who don't understand the tools they're using. Nor do they have a connection to any backend database+access to a data dictionary. If they did, we'd have much greater problems than the occasional hacker.
I'm not sure what you mean. - I'm just saying that between known instances of people buying accounts for hacking and burning through a dozen of them within a week or two (quite a few of them speak quite openly about it and sometimes even stream what they're doing) and there being absolutely no shortage of fresh accounts for that, I think you kinda have to wonder how many of the recorded players are actual players and how that affects any out-of-all-players-statistics.
Tbh, if they removed 100hrs or less accounts from these statistics I think they'd be a lot more accurate. - But that's besides the point of the topic.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814332#Comment_3814332
There is loss prevention, but I think only 5% of the player population is in that bracket. It's not easy to reach. Between that and MMR being out for 3 years at this point, I imagine most people who are there can survive there. Obviously, there is a skill distribution within that, so some players in that top bracket will be relatively bad compared to others.
tbh, with the virtually endless epic accounts I've honestly started to wonder if the 5% even mean anything
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There might be something to the MMR thing in so far as, iirc, once you somehow make it past a certain mark you can't drop below that threshold anymore. If, due to changes to mechanics, perks etc. that lands you in perpetually unwinnable situations (if you're up against someone who's too far away from where you're at there's literally zero point; you won't be able to learn from that experience. It's like trying to read a novel in French after having had French at school for two years…. ten years ago and that novel is the first French thing you see since then; it ain't gonna work).
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Seems like they generally switche dup a bit of the gameplay. - Killers got roles now too, meaning they get an advantage in certain situations. - It's also not like survs can just pick up pallets; it needs to be unlocked as a class feature and is thus only available to a limited amount of players for a limited amount of time.
Idk, I'm excited to see how the changes play out in the mode. Could be super nice - could backfire horribly. Either way; they don't lean any particular way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@JustAShadow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810354#Comment_3810354
Do you need a guide how to outplay hellfire and wolf?
Nothing as detailed as a guide - a quick outline of how to play, say, a strong/long i filler and a say, trash pile gym. How do you avoid dropping the pallet way too early while also not giving a free hellfire hit?
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@JustAShadow said:
For some reason a lot of people complain that he catches up too quickly which is kinda weird because it's actually good design - it eliminates most of the shift W slog and forces survivors to play tiles against him, and while his chase powers are pretty decent they also give survivor enough options to outplay them.
Please do humour me, cause if neither distance, nor obstacles, nor holding checkspots are an option against a killer, how exactly do you outplay him? Which options do survivors have to outplay him? I am actually curious to know, cause I'm at a loss. Don't play nearly enough to encounter him often enough to go trial-and-error until something works.
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since all maps are brought down to the size of dead dawg, no, not a problem. If anything the opposite; on the majority of maps killers already have (near) line of sight of both gates, making it fairly easy to get at least one more hook out of someone trying to open the gates.
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Isn't there that "experiment" thing (which, I suppose, would be classified as unethical in an actual research setting…) where people are supposed to slug to find out if it's more reliable than hooking?
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@Blutengel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809105#Comment_3809105
It does not matter if it's not what she is primarily geared towards—the point is that she is still overperforming when she slug and goes for fast downs. And she does it better than The Twins by a quite massive gap. So why exactly are we nerfing The Twins, when we are already aware that they are barely used because of the endless counterplays that they have?
because it doesn't happen nearly as often as on Twins. - And the "nerf" to Twins would be an indirect one to begin with, cause the thing that does need to get nerfd is slugging / the slugging potential of certain perks and mechanics
I also don't think the cause-effect relationship is as you say; "barely used because of the endless counterplays" - I'd say barely used because the gameplay is just miserable - both as surv and as killer.