Halloulle
Halloulle
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786615#Comment_3786615
All of this makes 0 sense with regards to what OP was talking about though. People are quitting the moment they load in. You can't blame the killer playstyle for this. This is basically just ppl trying to pick which killer/map they get. This is happening for EVERY Killer character, although some more than others.
… this was in response to a reply in this thread, though?
I suppose you didn't read a different reply where I addressed the "quit the second the match starts" … which isn't at all an "epidemic" I observe. I do observe early quits, rage quitting etc. pp. but rarely do I see someone quitting earlier than an minute into a match. - If that is something they observe I asked they provide more information on the situations where this happens within a few seconds of the match starting to help me understand a situation I don't encounter myself. -
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786637#Comment_3786637
Ouch.
If you had so many borderline unbearable matches in a row, honestly I'd have called it quits for the night. I really don't know why you'd go in for number 6.
As for R6, spawnpeeking is a thing, yeah, and people who DC after dying early in the first round do look kind of silly. The maps are built in a way so you don't have immediate vision on spawns, though. You kind of have to rush to the objective without paying attention to get hit with a spawnpeek. Anyway, that's besides the point, as the comparison doesn't really work if you don't know about that specific game.
Because Skullmerchant games are supposed to be the odd one out, I guess— I mean, what is the likelihood of that many Skullmerchants in a row? 😅
"The maps are built in a way so you don't have immediate vision on spawns, though" being the key-sentence there. I think what most games that frown upon "going next early" have in common is that there isn't really a way to just cheese your way through or engage in intrinsically obnoxious and unfun behaviour. Which, imo, really can't be said about dbd. Some people say "that's just part of the game" - which might be true but that doesn't make it any better.
In other words: Do I think it's bad that this many people go next that quickly? Yes. Absolutely. - But I think it's important to not get cause and effect mixed up. - And at the end of the day I find it a lot harder to believe that that many players suddenly feel entitled if they play survivor (since most players play both sides to some extent afaik and we don't see the same on killer side, plus it's not like it has always been this way; something has prompted that change) than that something about the current state of the game is extremely unhealthy/unfun/whatever if you are on the surv side of things. -
@Rxstevo said:
With the state of the game right now I think its pretty valid to run 4 gen perks. The only way your gonna have a fun and enjoyable time playing killer is if you have 4 gen perks. If you try to use a fun chase build your just gonna get gen rushed and if you try playing with a fun aura build everyone's just gonna have distortion. If you want to have a fun chill match bring 4 gen perks and if you wanna use a fun build good luck on having to play to the max just to win
bring whatever you want - but don't complain about people getting pissed at you for making their game obnoxiously tedious for them and don't blame them for not wanting to stick around so you can chill while they have to play M1 simulator. If everyone's on the same page regarding that; do by all means bring whatever you like and do whatever you want.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786615#Comment_3786615
There's plenty of other PVP games with a huge range of content you can potentially face up against. If I immediately ragequit a lobby of Rainbow Six because one of the defenders picked Clash, I'd get laughed at.
If I suggested being able to open the exit gates at 5 gens because I faced 4 Sprint Bursts as a killer or something, that'd be a ridiculous suggestion. I don't know why the same isn't true vice versa.
Either way, not knowing which killer you'll face shouldn't be an excuse to allow you to ragequit early without penalty. This just isn't a thing in other games.
Hook suicides shouldn't be a thing. If you can't take the good matches with the bad matches, then you shouldn't really be playing the game. I think quitting entirely over the odd Skull Merchant match would be a silly thing to do, but you shouldn't be able to be selective about it. You shouldn't really be able to pick and choose what you do or don't play against, that's generally not how PVP games work.
On a side note: oddly enough "the odd skull merchant match" happened to be four in a row (all of which borderline unbearable - so yes, when the sixth of that evening rolled around I decided I wasn't going to waste another 15 minutes on that).
I don't play that game, so I don't get the reference. - But from what I know it's one of those shooters? Quick question: How do people generally treat spawn-camping snipers and their victims ragequitting as a result of never getting further than a meter from spawn? Would these "rage quitters" also be laughed at? And how would people who load into a match where the entire other team consists of snipers be treated if they assumed enough of them gonna be spawn campers to not want to play that match?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786532#Comment_3786532
I never said you're not allowed to complain about things. You are allowed to not like something and be vocal about that.
You shouldn't, however, be able to ruin the game early for the rest of the players just because you don't like something in the game. There are plenty of killers I personally dislike playing against, but I will play the match out because I respect the time of the other players in the lobby.
I really don't know why people find this acceptable. In any other team PVP game, disconnecting/leaving when your opponent picks something you don't like is rightfully frowned upon, and generally not allowed in any way without an abandon penalty.
fair, I didn't see the "calling it quits" part.
The main point still stands though; in any other PVP game you stick around because "you know what you signed up for". - That's at least how I understand the mantality. So if that's a premise you don't agree with the rest is obsolete.However, given the myriad of things you could encounter at this point in dbd that is no longer the case for dbd. For all intends and purposes you don't even know what you sign up for when you Q up as SoloQ. - You only know once the match has already started. And can you really sign up for something when you don't even know what it is?
Add to that the common "I'm not responsible for your fun" thing (that's usually thrown around by someone who played killer and got a complaint from a survivor about their playstyle not being in any way fun to face) and I think we're getting close to what's going on. Sure, the killer can play whoever and however they like and they're not responsible for the other players' fun. - But the same is true for survivor.
Should people just not play then? - Probably. - But as I said: given the myriad of things you could face in a match the chances of facing exactly what you don't want to face are pretty slim. Quitting a game altogether because you might face something that makes you not want to play that match is like not driving because you might get into an accident.
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@TiredDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786352#Comment_3786352
I mean when people are just giving up outright at the very start after zero interaction with the Killer so far this clearly isn't the case. Obviously it's a problem with the playerbase but we're not able to fix that directly. The point of my post is really just I'd rather have no DC penalty and have bots for teammates so I can maybe still escape rather than someone just instantly giving up and being forced to play with 2 (or less) teammates because someone didn't feel like playing.
Or maybe there are things in this game that make it pointless to even attempt to play the match normally that you can only see once you load in. Or maybe the first thirty seconds have a disproportionally huge impact on the rest of the match. - Or do you want to restrict your complaint solely to several people DCing ten or twenty seconds into the match being an epidemic? In that case: I don't observe that and I would love to see some recent examples. Maybe looking closer at the situation might shed some light on the situation.
@ReverseVelocity said:
They need to make it so you can't suicide on hook from the first stage. It allows you to leave the game while circumventing the DC penalty.
I know it won't solve every instance of people giving up, but allowing penalty free ways of leaving the game quickly is basically encouraging it at that point.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786352#Comment_3786352
Honestly, I think a good amount of it is entitlement. People getting upset that the match won't be absolutely perfect for them and then immediately calling it quits.
In a lot of my killer games people just immediately give up from the get go for zero reason. I'm not camping, tunneling or running 4 slowdowns or anything, they just immediately give up for no discernable reason.
Maybe it's because they don't like the killer I'm playing? Even then it's not like I'm a Skull Merchant main, I think I've had someone go next at 5 gens on every single killer in the roster at this point. I roll my eyes every time it happens.
It's probably one of the biggest things weighing down on my experience as a Survivor, and the only way to guarantee it doesn't happen is to 4 stack. Even 3 stack games can be ruined by the random tapping out early.
It feels like I'm spinning a roulette wheel as to if I'll have a full team for the majority of the game. It's so frustrating.
Well, if you consider players playing a game wanting to have fun and not being willing to put up with everything that could potentially be thrown at them entitlement, then yes. I suppose survs are entitled. As is every other player who ever complained about anything that is mechanically possible in this game and they found no enjoyable in one way or the other.
Slight tangent but that is, imo, another thing why 2v8 was so popular: It being so limited in terms of what stuff you could get also meant you could make a good judgement call if you really want to sign up for that or not. There were only so many things you had to expect and be alright with. And at least from what I can tell while throwing did happen in 2v8 too, it was pretty few and far inbetween. — In normal game mode, however, there is just so much stuff that anyone could quite reasonably not be alright with they wouldn't play the game to begin with if they expected to encounter these things. - But the chances of it occuring are so slim that it doesn't justify not playing the game altogether. Kinda how the chance of getting into a traffic accident rarely stops people from driving. -
idk, if it's that wide spread it seems like an issue with how the survivor match experience is rather than an issue with the players
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sorry if that sounded rude (I don't this as an edit cause the last response came quick and I think you won't see otherwise) - but I do get the feeling your perception of bloodwarden/your expectation isn't quite lining up with reality. - BW is cool if it works but it is a huge if. The yt compilations where people turn around a match with BW are either people who somehow figured out a niche way of using it that works with their playstyle — or the one-in-I-don't-even-want-to-know-how-many attempts where it actually did work.
It's similar to Rancor in that regard; if you get the Rancor guy at the end it's great. If you manage to get even more people with Rancor that's downright impressive. - But you can bet the person who knows they can get Rancord at the end will play end game very different from how they'd usually play endgame.
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@GoingToGetDwight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786085#Comment_3786085
Yes every time i done that they leave i get the chance maybe i make it too obvious idk
Yes…? Like, bloodwarden isn't supposed to be a surprise uno reverse card?
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You do realise that 99ing gates is the counter survivors have and if you want to counter that counter you open the gate yourself.
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feel the same - and personally, I occasionally play a few rounds to remind myself why I don't usually play. Sometimes some of the other guys also still play dbd then we swf a round and that can be decent fun. Other than that: I just wait for the next modifier to roll around and hope it's as entertaining as the 2v8 (while that one too had its anti-fun synergies and strats those were few and far in between on most days).
Other than that: just don't play. Find something you look forward to doing. For me that's a bit tough, cause there are so many memories tied to this game; every match is a little like going down memory lane. But present me thanks past me for stopping to play dbd all the time even though it wasn't fun anymore.
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I did find the changes misplaced as well. - I haven't played much dbd in general in a while, even less so killer, but every once in a while I have a nemmy-phase (idk, all in all ~300-500hrs on nemmy) and the one thing I always found borderline obnoxious is how safe-or-suck he is: You get two fresh tentacle hits early game? (So within the first ~30 seconds) - Brilliant, if you don't mess up royally you'll 3k easily in the vast majority of your matches (provided they're not on one of the huge-ass maps) - to the point where it's boring. You didn't get two fresh hits early game? - Well, sucks to be you; if the survs don't mess up royally or you have some insane regression build/play incredibly scummy that's ggs right there; 2man out guaranteed, usually 3 or all 4.
The change doesn't address the one thing that negates getting T2(and T3) early - namely huge maps - and makes the oppressive nature of him on any map that isn't huge even more pronounced since reaching T2/3 is now easier (/is more likely to come with an early down which puts pressure on survivors even earlier).
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Man. Those are some depressing stats. - But do feel very much like what I remember my match experience to be like (pre 2v8; have played a whole three 1v4 matches since 2v8 launched and nope, can't do any more).
I wish there was a bhvr stat with a second killrate; where matches with early DCs (before 1st gen completed/first surv dead) and first survivor suiciding on hook are included, as well as the percentage of those matches vs. percentage of matches without either of those two happening.
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@Ayodam said:
Doesn’t this kind of match what the devs have shown? Trapper specifically is said to perform extremely well at low and mid MMR, which is why he isn’t being buffed. It’s killer mains on this forum (and on Reddit) who think he’s weak. The data does not however bear that out.
not really matching though - cause with that amount of matches alone that player would have been bumped to high MMR. - Assuming they didn't start on a fresh account and not usually playing add-on less and with randomised perks I suppose they're in high MMR already; I doubt their killrate is lower during "normal matches". So in that case Trapper wouldn't just perform extremely well at low- and mid-MMR but at top MMR as well.
That being said: as others have pointed out that infographic comes with a severe lack of contextual information, so meh.
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I don't take either mode particularly serious so it's not hard to shrug off "losing" in 1v4 for me either. - But I would say that the overall expectations in 1v4 vs 1v8 are different. As a result losing in 1v8 feels like it isn't even supposed to be a big deal. While in 1v4 it feels like it is supposed to be a big deal - even though it isn't for me personally. The direction of 1v4 has just been so optimisation and sweat oriented for a good while. - For 1v8, on the other hand, the theme is still mostly "chaos".
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Lethal doesn't need a "nerf hammer" - it's a perfectly alright "lazy person" perk.
What does need looking at is match start spawn points. A survivor shouldn't spawn so close to a killer that they can be there within five seconds of the match starting.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777973#Comment_3777973
I think you should understand game system a lot more when you make assumption of other peoples, you seems to be making ridiculous assumptions based on extremely biased point of view
Necessity for 4k is a design flaw and nothing else
I do understand the game system - I also understand that there are challenges that require a 4k. However, it has no effect on my opinion of these people.
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@ad19970 said:
I just never see the endless amount of deadzones on maps that some people seem to talk about. Some maps certainly have unnecessary deadzones, and some maps are receiving more and more weak pallets for some reason, no doubt, but I also don't think it's that bad either.
My experience with hitboxes are also never that bad, even though they can be questionable at times.
Survivors certainly still have good perks. When it comes to perks, the game is pretty well balanced at the moment in my opinion. Most exhaustion perks, Off the Record, DS, Iron Will, We'll make it and more are all great perks in my opinion.
Tunneling, camping and slugging are the real problems for survivors at the moment, in my opinion. Especially tunneling and camping, even though the latter is at least being nerfed a bit next patch.
As for deadzones: when I spawn into e.g. Coldwin with WoO and Open Handed and can count the pallets I can see on one hand… most of the map is a deadzone right off the bat - and after one decent-ish chase the entire map is a deadzone. - That being said: there is a good amount of confirmatin bias since you'll remember that awful Coldwind farm match much longer than, say, a Garden of Joy match (which is perfectly normal and also shouldn't be disregarded; if a few maps can spoil an entire game mode [survivor] for a player than that's an issue, even if it's statistically only occurring in 5% of the matches that player is engaged in.)
On the hit boxes: varied. Sometimes more annoying than other times but there are ridiculous things happening sometimes.On the perks I'd be very interested in the "and more" part. Cause naming a handful of perks - even all exhaustion perks included not enough to give four survivors buids without duplicate perks - really doesn't sound like good balance. At least not when it comes to variety. (And one of the greatest complaints about surv perks is that it's always the same handful of perks.)
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To answer OPs original question: In 2v8 I usually have fun. - Sometimes the sweats get in and then it's ridiculous but overall prettyy fun (recently had a Billy essentially doing an endless tight loop around main on the Coldwin map and Nurse just one blinking everyone cause pretty much everyone was exposed all the time. Fun times. - Unironically if it's the odd match. But once it becomes matches like that back to back… nah fam, that's not it). Played a handful of matches with some friends in normal mod and o gawd was that awful. - It felt so… undynamic, empty and scripted. -
I just look at it this way: If anything it's really telling when it comes to the qualities the player behind the killer is lacking. To me they're exactly like that kid who feels the need to kick the guy already on the ground. Usually I pity them - cause in what sorry state of mind do you have to be for that - sometimes I'm just kinda disgusted. And sometimes I'm both.
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same
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well, it does reduce input lag. Most of the time ping is the bigger offender - but when it comes to skillchecks it is quite a bit easier to hit greats on high fps. Maybe if a vault or pallet Pallet comes down to milliseconds it might night also help a little - but as I said; ping makes the bigger difference there i find
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@AsianMammoth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774372#Comment_3774372
Official statistics on survival rates taken from December 30 2023 to January 29 2024 show that high MMR 4-man SWFs escape 6% more than high MMR 3-man SWFs, and 8-9% more often than high MMR 2-man and solos. This means that experienced SWFs extraordinarily break the intended 60/40 mold and make it very close to a 50/50. This prove that there is a correlation between SWFing and significantly higher success rates, most certainly on the advantages that may come from communication, namely coordination — and consistent information — which, comparatively, killers can't get in their basekit and rely on perks for.
You don't compare the 4man swf high mmr rate to the balancing goal - that's oversimplifying an already simplified statistic. The one thing that statistic does imply is that high mmr 4 man swfs are the ones turning the potential advantage into an actual advantage. - Hence the key words significant in the first premise and all in the second. However. Only a fraction of the players are high MMR (as per behaviours stats that's around 15% of the playerbase iirc) and only a fraction of players plays 4man swf (I think the last number I remember was around 5%?). Now how large the overlap between those two groups might be… I have no clue. But my assumption would be that it isn't big enough to have a significant impact.
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You need two premises to work here:
- There are enough swf to have a significant impact
- All swf make use of the potential advantage
Looking at escape rates I suppose it can be said neither of these two premises is met to a point where it becomes significant.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774251#Comment_3774251
Yours was feelings mine was calling out the people who don't direct the same energy towards tbagging. Either way if you don't like the action suck it up. If you get offended by it then it's not your type of game if the communities that way.
Just fyi: if a game's stated goal is inclusion and not some gang-like "suck it up and if you can't gtfo" then bringing up and addressing offending things is what you're supposed to do. Looking at history "sucking it up that a community is that way" has never ended well.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774028#Comment_3774028
To call that sexual harassment seems like an insult to actual victims.
Its nothing more than ingame BM.
Sexual harassment it is - plain and simple. You don't need to get physically violated to experience sexual harassment (there's a different word for that one…) — It's similar to someone sending you eggplant emojis over and over again - and you not being able to stop them or block them. Would you say "they just sent an emoji" - or would you acknowledge the contemporary cultural context of that emoji and say it's sexual harassment?
That being said, as someone else has said already: with the tools available it's simply impossible to track/moderate so there won't be anything done about it.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773240#Comment_3773240
Fist of all tunneling isn't toxic, people should put this in their minds once and for all (like survivors sticked on generators), you like It or not this is the truth (irritating? Probably. But still a strategy nevertheless) and secondly this concept can be used even as survivor: if i see a killer that is tunneling someone be sure that i'll stick to generators because it means that the killer is actually trying to win rather than playing for fun. So i'll change my gameplay accordingly. As you said It goes both ways... In any case you should witness all the BS that i've aganist as killer then perhaps you'll see why i said those things... Regarding the 2vs8 mode survivors can genrush even here if they want (tbh it's even easier if they aren't potatoes) due to having tons of pallets at disposal and the map being bigger make all more easy…
… You kinda missed the point of the post 😅 I assumed you came out of a bad killer match so I just wanted to give the equally biased survivor version of it - a bit tongue in cheek. But I suppose we somewhat agree on the bottom line so all good?
The one thing I can't get behind though is survs being able to "genrush" in 2v8. "focusing on any given gen" is not "genrushing" just like "managing to keep chases with any survivor short" isn't tunneling. The "going absolutely out of your way and (ab)using game mechanics toward that end" is what qualifies something as genrushing and tunneling. The big difference between killer and surv in this regard is if survs do this without bringing special builds/special tools this leads to them having a disadvantage, while a killer doing this will usually lead to them having an advantage (the exception being if they choose the wrong survivor and massively overcommit). There are killers that are more and killers that are less suitable for this but they never need to bring a specific "tunnel build" - I kinda wish they had to; just to get some tangible data on what people intend to do; you don't equip perks as a reaction to how the match goes. In any case, that brand of genrushing and tunneling is also the (only) one I consider detrimental to the match experience for anyone but the offender - that's somewhat clunky but for the sake of avoiding the word toxic since it's a throwaround term at this point. And I think these things shouldn't be in the game. That's my opinion though, feel free to disagree.
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Nah, the scratchmark change is alright. - If it turns out to be a "buff", meaning it contributes to killrates rising, then that will get addressed eventually.
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@appleas said:
It's counting hooks except on a 8 player scale. Even seasoned players like Otz and Hens were keeping track of Survivors they first hooked even though they probably didn't need to and could just go for chases.
It's the optimization mindset setting in
If it was 9 or 10 gens being required to fix, Killers could probably go for more chases instead of hooks but since there's only 8 gens and lots of pallets on the maps, Killers will have to use strategy to make up for the time shortage
killers habe insane gen regression basekit plus basekit nth to definitely find whoever was doing that hen and is still close. A nearly done gen regresses to zero in virtually no time.
- Plus survivors have to traverse a huge map to get to a cage, and the potential to not even get there is quite big due to two killers likely being between them and the cage. That's massive passive slowdown. they also have regular aura read to be able to quickly find and surprise survs,which balances out the abundance of pallets (tho i do think both the aura read and the sheer amount of pallets could be tuned down a little).
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@Tostapane said:
maybe you just had bad luck… happen more than you can think you know? besides, if the killers are willingly doing so probably it's because survivors are particularly toxic (rarely i get people respectful in my lobbies. most of the survivors tbag knowing that you can't catch them if the other killer isn't around due to the HUGE quantity of pallets present in the map… some even trashtalk in the endchat just for the sake of being toxic) or simply put rush gens, even under your nose (in that case it's fair to apply the concept "you tunnel generators so i tunnel survivors")
Applying your logic:
If the survs are willingly doing so probably it's because killers are particularly toxic (rarely do i get people respectful in my lobbies. Most of the killers greet you just after getting unhooked or hump you and virtually violate you for several minutes straight until you bleed out. Most of the killers do the former because it's so easy to know where cages spawn and the latter once it's down to three survs because they know its impossible for survs to complete the gens and they can scour the entire map to find them. Some even trashtalk in the endchat just for the sake of being toxic) or simply put tunnel and ignore pushing survs off gens (in that case it's fair to apply the concept "you tunnel survivors so I tunnel generators")
Like the hell? Even if that logic were true on either side it neither justifies nor excuses being toxic. (plus, I think you just equated survivors doing gens at all - since they cant really gen rush in this mode since they cant bring the tools - with tunneling? if guides had a basekit bnp and spawned in with a commodious tb....maybe. but that isnt the case.)
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mhhhm. Between the near perma aura reveal during 2v8 at times and the mention of distortion I get the impression being able to hide from the killer in any way is an unwanted playstyle. I guess killers are supposed to always be able to find any survivor at any time if they so wish (by equipping the aura perk that best fits their killer and playstyle). - I mean, if survs get the basekit notification about their aura being revealed that might even be okay. But not holding my breath.
Well, maybe Pharmacy becomes useful again though. Loved that perk before it got changed.
As for killers; curious to see what most of those changes are going to be about. Bit worried about Billy; he is a bit overtuned atm ... but kinda afraid he's gonna be underwhelming again.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770447#Comment_3770447
Absolutely. You play the way you want so long as game physically allows you to. Whenever it is fun to any side is a subject to debate but then the concept of fun is also purely subjective and has no universal meaning.
Fair enough - but I suppose we can agree to disagree on a very fundamental thing. - I think both, what you described and what I described, should not be a thing in a game. Just because a it's allowed by the game, doesn't make it good (otherwise patches/updates post-release wouldn't be a thing).
My gripe with both strategies is primarily time; it's an absolute waste of time. What spoils my fun is that my time is being wasted. And what I find it distasteful/anti-social/morally telling is if someone derives joy from wasting other people's time. That's just my opinion on it though. I'm also in the camp that says a joke at the expense of someone else isn't a good joke and is usually - by virtue of being at the expense of someone else - not funny. It's a similar thing, in my eyes.
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@Xyphus said:
Usually I don't wanna be the one to bring the Us vs. Them mentality.. But in this case I will, since you mentioned the synergie of the instadown stuff.. This might be the first time that Survivors feel how those bully SWF squads feel like. Own medicine never taste good.
Apart from that - thank god not every killer team is like that. My hubby and I actually go for chases. We usually don't care about the gens. We also don't interupt groups of healing Survivors after they "unhooked" someone - we hate tunneling!
But in general you're right. Give someone the opportunity to be a jerk and many people take that road - no matter which side
For me it's the differenc in frequency in normal mode (even during the phases where I do play a lot of killer I still run into significantly less bully swf than I run into bully-killers when playing surv) - but this isn't exactly about a us vs them. It's more along the lines of what you closed with; given the opportunity to be awful enough people will be awful, so that an otherwise perfectly good thing is ruined for everyone else. And generally that goes both ways… but so far I can't even see how survs are supposed to be awful towards killers in this game mode, having to be pushed out the exit gates aside and greeding a gen (and usually trading a down for it)… but at least there the killer has agency and can actually do something. - Then again; I haven't exactly played much killer, so I might just not know. Maybe you came across something?
@pigslittlepet said:
I don't think it's being a jerk, it's playing to win. The dbd community has long had the mentality of win win win. Killers are figuring out efficient ways of securing the 8k and survivors are learning the fastest ways to gen rush. The first few days people were still enamored by the novelty of the new mode. Now they are settling into the new rhythm needed to secure the win for their side. Now, weather that's a good thing or not is a entire other conversation.
If you win by being a jerk you're still a jerk. Easy as that. Both is possible at the same time. — In this context it's also not an entire other conversation; it's this conversation. That's exactly my point/opinion/feedback. It is not a good thing. Especially not in the context of this game mode specifically. (If dbd should go comp in normal mode is an entirely different thing indeed - but besides the point I was making.)
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769875#Comment_3769875
That is a legit strat for 8k. Nothing wrong in that.
Yah, and me tapping a generator every two or so minutes and leaving at the slightest hint of terror radius is a legit strategy to outlive the two others while not breaking the rules. Nothing wrong with that either then, I suppose.
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I felt bad for the killer that got stuck with a bot-huntress. Rock infinite - less gooooo.
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There are some broken synergies for killers - but it's not like they're particularly prevalent so they don't bother me too much. One being Wraith and Billy combo where Billy causes exposed and just blocks paths while Wraith downs (I don't know if the other killers can work like that too; so far I've only seen it with Wraith and Billy). Then there's sometimes Huntress who has a clear shot of six gens standing on a hill / in the middle of the map which just leads to annoying and drawn out matches and I usually just skip those. If both killers catch on they literally ignore all gens except those and once the map has shrunken that much it's rather easy for them. Then there#s the pincer ganging up with the aura reading that can feel terrible cause there is literally absolutely nothing you can do as a survivor. And the last thing that can skew balance: it's not that difficult to predict where cages go. On the survivor side some survivors use this as a "shortcut" to the exit gates; it's better to go down far away from the gate than close to it. - On the other hand I've seen an increasing number of killers beelining to the area the cage is gonna appear and have seen more endurance hits out of cage yesterday than the previous days.
Those are… isolated issues, at the moment. so not impacting balance, imo. But let's see if it stays like this or if it's gonna be more widespread.
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I also don't think 2v8 will be permanent; the (surv) playerbase is simply not big enough.
maybe Q times could be shortened if they rebalance killers a little so that the same killers can play together - or killers get Qed together before they pick a killer and have to sort it out in the lobby. - But with the sheer amount of survs needed you need a massive surplus of surv players to make killer Qs acceptable. Someone somewhere did the math of how even just a slight imbalance impacts Q times in 1v4; Qs just keep getting longer. - So the other option I see to make Qs for killers shorter is to make matches insanely short; one match 5 mins max, lobby is 25 seconds instead of 1min and the end screen only has the match result tab right away and you get redirected to lobby after 5 seconds (if you don't click leave). That way the in-game-but-not-in-Q-or-match-time would also be shortened.
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It's the role that needs everyone to understand it to actually work. If there are 2 healers they gotta be the two to do most (pretty much all) of the rescuing and healing, avoid chases and only push random gens whenever they find themselves having downtime (or disarming traps). Then the pressure from most survs always being full health is a good safety to prevent snowballing/gens slowing down. Ideally the two healers are on comms so they're not in the same area of the map.
You rarely have that, so the value is kinda limited.
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smh I have a feeling OP got misunderstood. - All they're saying is that the INTENDED playstyle for Trapper in the 2v8 isn't particularly suited for the 2v8 mode; both for Trapper and for survs. It's a save-or-suck rinse and reapeat kinda thing; either survs catch on to the trap zone and avoid it for the better part of the match until they can roll the killers by putting insane pressure on traps and the last gen - or they don't and get absolutely rolled by the killers due to being stuck in traps all the time. There's not really an inbetween - and neither extreme is fun for either side.
Or, well, that's how I understood it.
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Call me a cynic/pessimist but I see a good chunk of those who just want to play killer load into surv match and just "gg next" asap.
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The "baby hunt" is so real. - I'm by no means a super good surv but I do notice that killers tend to just leave me alone as long as all survs are alive; and there are 2-4 who just drop like flies. - Once only four or five are left they do commit. - Often both together.
Given the abundance of aura and teaming-up help on killer side I suppose it's the realistic way to play as killer. - But I do worry that in time I gonna have to opt to play with at least 2-3 friends to smh make up for the slaughter and be able to play the 5v2 — or just drop the mode. Like anything; playing it too much makes it go stale. So I might just enjoy the fun while it lasts. The fun of the mode, imo, lies in the Solo aspect; the chaos is glorious…. as long as it's actually chaos.
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Looking at how surv bots behave… I would definitely not Q up for that mode anymore (and I also wouldn't go play normal instead; I'd just go back to playing sth else).
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The glorious chaos of 2v8 is pretty fun; I ain't going back. If I'm tired of 2v8 I take a break from dbd altogether.
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Haven't played too much - but from what I can tell; teamed up killers who got the cage spawn logic down and are on comms just make sure survs are busy running literally across the map the whole time and then greet them there as soon as people are unhooked.
Similarly, teamed up survs (three or more) just systematically stack gens in whatever corner the killers aren't; simply getting them takes them almost as long as completing the gen so it's one hook stage vs one gen.
tbh, I think this would be better with SoloQ only; simply because you can pretty much immediately tell if people have Qed up as a team and the matches where no one seemed to have Qed up together were a lot more fun. That being said: Qing up premade hasn't been particularly common for me so it's just every once in a while. Let's see how it goes as the event continues.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767123#Comment_3767123
One that has more risk than safety.
Exaggerating a bit but I assume you agree that just dropping rocks and some trees on a map is not the way to go? A map like that would have more risk than safety. I need you to be more precise, cause as it is I still don't get what exactly you mean.
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@Emeal said:
What if.. Maps are supposed to be bad because if they were good maps then survivors would be able to loop the killer for too long.
Maybe maps need to be just good enough to cause a Survival situation.
What constitutes a "survival situation" though?
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The rule of thumb is this: If the build you bring makes it possible to 4k with barely any effort, idk, say you're eating dinner while in chase and it's no issue, then people will generally not look favourably on you.
Knockout is just obnoxious in any case.
And that's about it.
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Generally: yes.
But, as with everything there's exceptions; If I spawn right in front of one of those gens and there's a chase happening between me and the next best gen ima still do that gen. Chances are it's gonna eat at least one painres anyway - and that one eating painres is much better than that unsafe center gen eating it.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764585#Comment_3764585
Luckily most killers aren't capable of hitting a survivor at the corner, even billy would have problem with that
Especially when there is no generators nearby, going into that is massive time waste
Huge chunk of many deadzone is hardly a problem, 12 meter range is pretty short anyways
All you need to do is pick up and drop if you want, it's definitely not a threatening perk, especially against killer as they don't have any of the incompetent teammates like survivors do, just pick addons, and drop if needed, that already counters entire perk slots of half
Also no, "any survivor" is bad because you can abuse that with SWF, it MUST be 8 perk slots, no exception
There is far too many situations where survivors can work for it too, there is no more than single killer and there is far too many things that can't be stopped, if it's in important position picking it up during hooking is never difficult, if it's not in important position ignoring it is never difficult, the problem is nonexistent
If you actually believe that we gotta, agree to disagree then, I suppose.
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Tbh, a shack 1v1 mode with a killer bot would probably be more engaging and fun at this point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Rage_In_The_Cage … since somehow the forums decided to not quote the post 🤨
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764069#Comment_3764069
if it costs 8 slot across entire four of survivors, I'll happily play less addon reliant killer to deal with that, no way I'd take SB, DS, OTR, BT, Reassurance, Boons, lithe, we'll make it, literally any other uncounterable really strong perks over something that can be disabled with one time quick hop to the corner, and still costs half the slot of perks for nothing
any survivor that has the perk combo got the aura read. - Easy as that. Idk, but I certainly would take wallhacks over any exhaustion perk.
I also usually play killer add-on less (I might have a hoarding issue…) but I'd still not consider it a viable suggestion.
You also forget that your "quick hop to the corner" only works if there's no gen or gate anywhere near that corner and that it's also telling the killer "hello, I'm in a deadzone now, collect your free hit". It's also not nearly as quick. And if survs don't magically agree on the same corner, killers still have aura read on a huge chunk of the map. - You also get one pretty central free read on the first surv you hit; that item is there and you'll always know if someone attempts to pick it up.