HURRI_KAIN
HURRI_KAIN
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/485396#Comment_485396
Windows of Opportunity shows fake pallets too. Not a counter.
That's kinda dumb.
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I might add, killers have Agitation and Iron Grasp, to help them get to a hook faster, and Boil over does almost nothing for survivor to prevent it from happening.
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Boil over needs to either increase the rate wiggle is gained, or slow down the killer. I advise increasing the rate wiggle is gained. As far as the hook aura blindness, that's about worthless, as far as the +75% wiggle effects, that is only slightly less worthless. As killer it means nothing to me, and as survivor it's never made a difference.
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I'm not for DBD trying to "control" people. But I agree with the OP. Some Fog Whispers, are heavily killer focused, even the ones that play some or even half survivor. I've commented before to the killers that it's difficult to watch them for all their complaining. They play well, well, when they aren't camping, but even while they're 4k, they're whining about survivor perks. It's a bit much and I don't think they should be fog whisperers.
I believe that by weighing the input of killer mains who constantly 3x 4x and still whine about survivor's perks is a big part of the reason we've been seeing so many survivor nerfs and killer buffs the last several updates. Just look at how long it was to fix legion, and how quickly they are trying to change MoM. Again I'll say it, MoM is balanced as is, and not even that good. DH is more useful, and can negate a into the dying state attack every 40 seconds. I don't even use either at this point.
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Can a moderator please delete this thread? lol.
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No Mither needs to reduce noise by 100%.
It needs to not show broken status to killer.
It needs to not enter game injured. - That way the killer truly won't know who has No Mither.
Retain the inability to be rehealed to uninjured.
Retain the ability to pick yourself up.
Retain the no pools of blood.
Add a BP increase for playing with No Mither. <-- would be nice, but at least make the other changes. Honestly I feel if BBQ has a BP increase even with it being so strong in the first place, then No Mither should likewise have a BP bonus.
That's my recommendation for No Mither.
I agree with much of what was said, No Mither isn't a "hard core" mode, it's an anti slugging perk.
Hard mode is no perks, no items no offerings, and if you really want hard core, just stand still if you get hit once.
In it's current state, especially since you start injured and you show broken to killer, it tells the killer you have No Mither, COMPLETELY negating the primary purpose of the perk, - being to pick yourself up if downed. The current perk stats are rather stupid to be honest.
@Peanits Can we get some feedback on this? And on Left behind?
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"This perk is unfair because it allows survivors to gain an unfair amount of extra time, just like DS did in the past, but apparently that is more fair than the killer having a power"
Really? Literally every perk can "give the survivor an amount of extra time" If used well. (Except left behind, and often DS, those are trash now)
I got it! Devs! New game mode, all survivors spawn in basement of killer shack, with entity blocked window, and only one door. Killer has no cooldown for attacks and spawns upstairs, and revert stairs! - You killer mains are so pitiful! MoM as is is not very good. It's ok, but has such a preparation and penalty, I rarely use it. I don't plan to spend the game playing butcher with the killer.
If a survivor has been injured 3x, they should've been hooked once or twice at least. Many killers easily counter MoM, there are only about 5 that don't, and that's arguable. : Freddy - but getting a rework. Wraith - but he has speed boost out of cloak, easy first hit. legion, doctor, pig - but has RBT that counter MoM and Hag, but has add ons, and can be played similar to spirit grabbing survivors or teleporting to survivors, so speed boost and one more hit can be easily countered if planned.
It's a matter of killer's not wanting to change their play style, they just want easy downs.
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Mettle of Man has always been a touchy subject for most of the community. When it was first teasered in the Ash vs.
This!!^^^ So much THIS^^^^^ Great Job!
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For me, I dislike going against Wraith and Freddy, it's like people just don't even try to hide versus these killers. And Freddy's song is very soft and hard to judge how far away he is on PS4, basically, when you hear him, he's just a few meters away.
I actually enjoy going against Nurse, Most of the time, unless they are a top tier player, then it's just a game of pick up your friends until you get downed.
I enjoy going chases against nurse, it's a matter of breaking LOS, and being unpredictable. I look like a total nut running from a nurse, but it makes it very difficult for them to hit me. Usually they'll get one hit, but give up before they get a second hit.
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Everyone except
Huntress, Song will still give you away.
Doctor, - you want large TR, not smaller.
Pig, Crouching means no TR, so useless.
Wraith. invisible means no TR, so useless.
Freddy wouldn't do bad with it, but his music is so hard to hear he pretty much is built in M&A.
Legion, - depending on the build and playstyle. - His DW is affected by TR, and Frenzy showing you other survivors is based off TR.
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@CallMeSpidey said:
They've acknowledged some mechanics regarding hitboxes need a tweeking.
Getting hit 2 steps after a vault can be infuriating.
PS4 Just last night was at haddonfield, running from a clown, coming out of the house basement with the gen -(not the killer basement, you know which one) the window directly in front of the stairs was closed but the one next to it was open. I vaulted, and turned I was in front of the blocked window, and all of a sudden was hit by the clown,..... the clown that was STILL inside the building.
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Maybe I should just go back to dominating with spirit grabs. w/o prayer beads.
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In my experience SWF is a #$% storm. Everyone knowing what everyone is doing ends up with chaos. But I've had trouble finding good teammates on PS4.
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@vampire_toothy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/480790#Comment_480790
Actually, people waited 4.5 months for the legion changes which both killers and survivors wanted to see.
The MoM changes aren't even final and is just a proposal, rather than be a hypocrite and whine about how they want to look at the perk, why not just propose a better way to change it to be better for both sides? As it stands, MoM is unfun and has no valid counterplay when used against most killers along with being incredibly easy to achieve by failing which is problematic design.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/480547#Comment_480547
Trapper - Can be countered by disarming traps, having eyes, disarm tech (while in the disarm interaction the trap can no longer trap people allowing teammates to pass over it)
Hillbilly - Can be forced to M1 in some scenarios.
Nurse - She does not counter MoM, she is simply just so insanely powerful that she manages. She is in need of at least getting addon changes anyways.
Myers - Not guaranteed, the hits still count as stacks and wasting your power on just one guy is silly. Your counter does not keep multiple people running MoM in mind.
Huntress - Alright, this is actually valid. However, most maps are very bad for her.
Cannibal - His chainsaw is awful and will rarely get any use against competent survivors.
Clown - Balance should not be based on addons, the pinky finger is an ultra rare addon you won't always have and it's stupid to tell people to use unfun addons to counter a stupid perk. Also keep in mind that bottles are way harder to get direct hits with than hatchets.
Spirit - Once again, balance should not be based on addons. Prayer beads is a stupid addon that is incredibly unfun for survivors. The point is that the game should be fun, encouraging people to run unfun addons to deal with your unfun perk is not valid because then nobody has fun. The whole point of a game is to have fun.
Plague - If you never cleanse, she never gets her corrupt purge. Like Billy, she can be forced to M1 in some scenarios or waste an incredible amount of time with her vile purge on the other hand.
Pig - Her only method of handling MoM is ambush attacks which are only viable at specific loops, a lot of the time using your ambush attack is not a very good idea.
Hag - I see you've already acknowledged she doesn't have a built in counter.
Doctor - Same thing as the above.
Freddy - Once again, same as the above.
Legion - You forgot legion actually, they are the only other killer that can somewhat deal with MoM in some cases due to deep wounds & MoM not stacking together however it's still possible to have the perk activate due to an extensive cooldown that gets 50% of the cooldown reset on each regular attack.
Wraith - Has no way to counter MoM.
Prayer beads is not required for Spirit to grab, has she been changed again? You only hear her sound if you were outside of TR when she started, right? Has this been changed? She's possibly the strongest killer in the game, if played correctly.
Cannibal - Apparently i'm not a competent survivor I still get downed by LF now and again.
Hillbilly - Just because they "can" M1, doesn't mean they don't have a counter to MoM.
Response to Trapper ^^ There are counters to each killer, that's why legion was nerfed so hard, people were tired of no counter. There are counters to MoM, and it's just sad they're wanting to nerf something so balanced, and so new.
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Survival rate is below 50% for all platforms, regardless of swf teams
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@LordGlint said:
@HURRI_KAIN it would, because killers would just be able to bodyblock the hatch while survivors would still be able to stand within the "safe circle". It would be a case where the survivor is waiting to be hit, not because it would make the killer unable to grab, but rather it would allow them to move through the killer and jump in.
If there is a "safe circle" The survivor couldn't be hit. The killer if they reached the hatch first would just close it. The survivor if they reached the hatch first would just jump in. Killer shouldn't be able to bodyblock the hatch, if the survivor is within the safe circle, then the killer can't interact with the hatch or hit survivor, but survivor can jump in hatch. If survivor sits there taunting, that's reportable, taking game hostage.
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Aside from being ridiculously OP, would cause many programming issues with clipping, decloaking while in a wall, getting stuck etc. Even clown gets stuck on some trees as it is, If you want to get stuck because you decloaked too close to a wall, then push for this change. lol.
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Use thrill of the hunt, hex ruin, haunted ground and BBQ.
Spirit is best used for grabs. Don't start phasing until you think they are in your TR.
When someone starts a totem, go grab them, hook them, someone starts another totem, grab them hook them. If they by chance stop doing totems then go where BBQ sends you. You should also be doing grabs from generators and exit doors. If they are SWF or very coordinated, they might be able to get a totem finished while you're hooking another survivor. It happens, but you'll have loads of hooks in the meantime, and odds are they won't hit ruin, so they'll keep at it.
Also even if you have just grabbed someone and someone starts another hex, just drop the person and go grab the other, they won't be expecting it and will likely commit.
I only recently got BBQ, I think I was using NOED as my fourth perk at the time - but it's very unlikely they'll leave a dull if you use this build. 4K, Afterwards I had survivors messaging me telling me how I used Spirit correctly and was very strong. Anyone telling you to chase people down with Spirit and M1 aren't using her to her best capabilities. Also keeping their attention to totems, keeps them away from generators so you can drag the game out a lot longer, especially outside of red ranks, where noone can do ruin.
Tips for survivors: Gen tapping prevents a gen grab by spirit, if you think she might be coming to your gen, start tapping it. As far as Totems, you just have to time it so that you think you can get it finished, remove dull first to decrease timer, and commit. OR ignore totems and do generators even with ruin.
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14k is about right for a good survivor game, if you manage to get a lot of heals and run the killer around after doing your gens, you could get in the 25k range, but in my experience, it's not often. Usually you either chase or do gens.
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MoM should be in the base kit!
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If killer's get confused, how is that a reason to nerf survivors? "git gud" comes to mind.
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You "pair" lightweight with urban evasion lol. Let's pair a running perk with a walking perk.
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@CallMeSpidey said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/331/0QDC3NPU312D.png
World of Warcraft has gone through a million changes and they still have a hard player base. Happens to Call of Duty all the time.
Destiny as well, everything changes and people keep playing.
WoW is more about guilds and community, DBD doesn't even have built in chat - Not saying I want killer/survivor communication in matches. But it's a false equivocation. CoD lol, Very minor balancing, not similiar at all, MUCH more variables in DBD. One reason I stopped playing Everquest was because of all the constant nerfing and "balancing".
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Honestly, this is how competitive games die.
I don't like "balancing" I don't like the entity - developer in this instance - picks winners and losers. Legion did drastically need changed, he was broken from the start. But you let him run for MONTHS. Now you take a 2nd rate perk like MoM and are nerfing it right after release because killers haven't adapted. Pathetic. You work hard to improve your characters and gain perks, then when you start acquiring them, the entity screws over your newly acquired perks/characters, in the excuse of "balancing". All games SHOULD BE UNBALANCED to a degree. MoM isn't even unbalanced, and it is too early to call it unbalanced.
Take Hag for instance, there is an inherent advantage to using a flashlight or urban evasion if you end up against a hag. Small Game inherently helps if against trapper. etc. Likewise, Urban evasion won't help against clown who can just chuck a bottle to see if you're in the vicinity. MoM, has an inherent benefit against Freddy, or Clown, but much less if any versus Spirit, Nurse, Billy, Myers, Cannibal. Self care, is very versatile, but it is pretty much useless versus Plague, and less useful versus Legion, or any killer that has nurse's calling. Stop nerfing everything to be equal, it ruins the diversity of gameplay, makes it very monotonous and is the leading reason why I leave games.
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@CallMeSpidey said:
It feels awful running the killer for 4 gens, getting face camped and de-pipping.
Like...what am I suppose to do.
You're supposed to work on one gen, while your 3 potato teammates rush the hook and all get downed. At least that's my experience.
Then DBD turns into a musical chairs game of pick up/unhook your friends until EGC :(
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there's a gif in that bug somewhere.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/481478#Comment_481478
No, it'd just trigger hatch standoffs again.
No it wouldn't, not unless grab was restored.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/481230#Comment_481230
How about removing the category limit but still keep a 32k maximum limit? So certain playstyles still are able to get the maximum (for example the runners, the gen jokeys etc)
THIS! ^^ I've been having lots of fun with a custom No Mither build. It revolves around wasting the killer's time and being dropped or slugged multiple times. It's fun to waste the killer's time because their not smart enough to go after someone else, but it makes me depip :(
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It's easier to vote down than to give substantive counterargument.
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Wraith, Pig, clown, would struggle with MoM more than other killers, but that's situational, survivors don't know which killer they're going against. Flashlights are very strong vs hag, but noone's complaining about that.
Even though Wraith/Pig/Clown/Freddy would have to go through the one extra hit with MoM, they still have their own advantages, Wraith has a fast hit out of cloaking, easily can get one hit at the start of a chase. Just rinse repeat. Pig has RBT, and while I don't think it's smart how most Pigs tunnel the person they just trapped, that is a definate way to counter MoM. Clown has it's own issues and is a bit buggy, we shouldn't be nerfing perks based off the lowest denominator. Freddy is getting a rework, so can't say much about him until we know what he's going to be. Trapper, can corral the survivors into traps which counter MoM. Make your choice, haunted ground, devour hope, NOED, or any others that give exposed status can be used on any killer and negates MoM. Moris also negate MoM, and are on ALL killers.
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@GrootDude said:
The way I see it is like what happened with old DS, survivors will stop relying on X perk and will improve their gameplay.
You are right, as as the survivor skill cap increases, killers will have more trouble with survivors and complain all the more.
@Bongbingbing MoM doesn't stop insta downs, of which there are many perks and abilities and addons to give this to killers. Honestly, as long as killers can Mori after one hook, or mori with no hooks, looking at you Myers, then they can't complain about a one time DH. Yes MoM requires no skill, DH requires skill, I've said this from the start. Most killer perks require no skill. BBQ, no skill, Nurse's no skill, haunted ground, no skill, hex ruin, no skill. The most mobile killers dominate, because almost no killer perks require any skill.
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@Usui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/480820#Comment_480820
Wait wait wait... getting hit by a killer by design is failure? LOL.. nice one bro. When's the last time you took a look at a MAJORITY of the maps with nothing but deadzones and nowhere to go without any pallets? Oh wait you probably only play killer.
I don't see a problem with taking a hit, escaping the killer to get healed by a teamate. Then hit again and do it again (or get hooked) to be granted an extra hit. (JUST ONE) very situational hit that needs to last t he entire game to even be useful. The proposed change is an absolute joke and the killer can DECIDE if he wants to even hit you in that situation or avoid you and continue tunneling the other person. Protection LUL
Don't you know? Killer is the only one allowed to have strategy. lol
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@chococri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/479882#Comment_479882
That's the direction this game is taking and I don't like it. This forum makes too much noise in the wrong direction and devs do whatever the mass say here... It really feels like the devs dont play their own game.
@dfrenchiee said:
MoM is just going to become another irrelevant perk. People will just go back to their old meta perks now.
Agree completely, In fact MoM is so balanced, I've only used it 25% of the time since it came out, never much changed my META. It's fine as is and there are MANY counters for about 2/3 of the killers. It's a matter of strategy as killer. Killers don't like to have to change their strategy or their gameplay, they like to have a low skill requirement for killers and it's killing the game that the Devs are listening to the lowest denominator. Lowering the skill level for killers, just makes it impossible for good solo players to have a chance, except at the very top with SWF. - According to their own statistics, very few games are 4man SWF, and each platform is different. PC is much easier to play than PS4, they know this, yet they keep basing their changes off PC Top tier survivor SWF gameplay and screwing all other survivors.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/480562#Comment_480562
@HURRI_KAIN Actually Spirit's only attack is her M1. Same with hag.
The out of phase/teleport hits count as M1 for the purposes of MoM. Same with Nurse teleports. There was a bug that made these not work, but it's fixed now.
So that makes this list:
Counters (Can kill survivors in under 4 M1 hits without the use of specific perk/addons/ect):
Huntress
Hillbilly
Leatherface
Myers
Legion
Plague
Trapper
Does not counter (without addons, perks or a mori they have to deal with MoM):
Hag
Spirit
Nurse
Doc
Pig
Freddy
Wraith
Clown
As I said earlier, if you're M1 with Spirit you're playing her wrong. She gets grabs from survivors interacting with totems/gens etc. That's an insta down, that's how you play spirit. Nurse is so fast one more hit means nothing to a good nurse killer. As far as the rest of your list, It's very similar to my list, and they do have options to counter it. It also is situational, in that if you've taken 3 hits, you should've been hooked at least once. That changes the ballgame completely. One or two hooks is often all you get, due to potato survivor teams. As said earlier, all killers base powers shouldn't counter perks, or why would anyone use them?
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I've never played Cannibal, one of the few killers I haven't unlocked. Nurse is such a strong killer, MoM means nothing to her. I've never had trouble getting tier 3 with Myers. If you use the ones that make it take forever to get tier III who's fault is that?
I don't approve of the last DS nerf, it made the perk useless. It's not a perk I run often either. But now it's trash.
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Shouldn't be able to close mid jump, should still be able to grab though.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470703#Comment_470703
Sabbo skill checks don't wake you up unfortunately
I've been woken up before, has this been changed?
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Um,... nothing is wrong with MoM, and I don't even use it.
Survivors have been nerfed time and again for the last several updates, nerfing healing, making DS unuseable, now nerfing the weak DH known as MoM. It's a bit ridiculous, not to mention the EGC that is VERY much in favor of killers.
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Check out my list, I could even see moving Clown to the list of not a good counter vs MoM, making it 5, but that's just because Using Pinky finger is like Using a Mori. Otherwise, you should reconsider your strategy, If you're M1 with Spirit, you're playing her wrong. If you don't think Myers can counter with multiple addons that counter, and his base power counters, I can't help you there. Nurse, can definitely counter MoM, easier than DH.
I agree, MoM takes no skill, DH takes skill and timing, but DH is MUCH more versatile, has no prerequsites, no penalties, except 40 second exhaustion, and can save in more ways. I have very few perks unlocked on my killers, because I like to tier III survivors, but I should probably just be a killer main with all these advantages.
Make that 6, I left off Wraith. But with his speed boost after uncloaking, he's debatable.
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Trapper Traps - catches MoM, DH will avoid.
Hillbilly - Chainsaw
Nurse - Her speed more than makes up for one additional hit.
Myers - Tier III, Insta Mori, Silent Myer grabs, etc.
Huntress - hatchets, and they're wanting to give her a headshot insta down.
Cannibal - insta downs
Clown - Red head's pinky finger
Spirit - silent spirit, grabs,
Plague - Corruption
So of all the killers, these four don't have built in counters to MoM:
Pig -RBT
Hag - collision traps
Doctor
Freddy
The smallest thing that makes killers have to rethink their strategy and they lose their minds. - Let's not forget ALL killers have Moris which are OP and It definitely counters MoM.
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@Sairek 67% Do tell. I gotta hear this. Who?
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For full disclosure, I've been one pip away from rank 1 before, and was at rank 8 at last reset (due to not playing as much) that's where I was seeing 3x 4x kills. After rank reset I was kicked all the way down to... I think 14, and those killers are babies and we were getting 3 and 4 man escapes. I'm a stealth player, so if I can run loops on a killer, then they're not very good. At these low ranks, I've run killers for a couple gens at a time - And I'm not good at loops and can't 360. PS4
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DH is fine, you're missing my point, I'm not saying we should nerf DH. I'm pointing out DH is much stronger than MoM and they're listening to whiny killers and nerfing MoM even though it's such a balanced perk as is.
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No Mither shouldn't make you start injured, No Mither / Broken status shouldn't be revealed to the killer, at least the No Mither Broken status. It just gives them more information on your build than they should ever have, making NM about useless.
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Ran a Myers all over the map the other night, instead of finishing the last gen, which the other survivor had plenty of time to do, they just stood in the corn waiting until I got downed, unhooked me, and stood around until the killer tunneled me down and killed me. Soon as I got downed, both times, I could see them just standing in the corn.
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Add me Kikki, I have the same problems on PS4, currently rank 8, It'll be nice to play with a teammate that isn't a potatoe.
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@liquidlight said:
Well, maybe one day the devs will share the data with us so we'll know if its unfair or not. At this time, it seems unfair. I have yet to see a survivor escape through a hatch without a key or open a gate and get away except for one time when the gates were on opposite sides of Red Forest. I'm not saying it's never happened. I'm just saying in the streams I've watched and games I've played it hasn't.
I just like the idea of having more stimulating, suspenseful gameplay. The way it is now, it's not. Hatch gets closed, the survivor realizes they won't get a gate open in time or tries and fails and both survivor and killer stand there waiting for the entity to do its thing. That's boring.
As survivor I found the hatch before the killer once, and then the last survivor apart from me was downed. I made it to the hatch, only because I already knew where it was and was fairly close to it. In any situation where the hatch hasn't spawned yet, I've yet to see a survivor find it first.
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OP is correct. last survivor does get screwed on EGC. if they look for hatch. If they wait by door for killer then they have a small chance.
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Let's get one thing straight, sitting at exit gates, is not "mocking" the killer. Do you know anything about the piping system? Sitting at the exit gates is more time in the trial, used to be you had to be in trial for 9 minutes to get gold if i recall correctly. If you leave the trial too quickly, you depip. If the killer comes to the gate, you'll get some points for escaping a chase as well. It's a matter of how the piping system works, it's not toxic, and it's not bullying.
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I bought Ash, for get this,... ASH. I didn't buy it for a one time DH with prerequisites AND penalties. MoM is not a problem stop whining. I only used it for adept Ash, don't even use it now.