Gandor
Gandor
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
Am I really seeing somebody ask for a Billy nerf in the year of our lord 2023... ?
It's hard to tell if he wants Billy nerf, Bubba nerf, or if he is totally mistaken. My guess is #3. You can't seriously want to nerf either of them (but I am disregarding bubba camp ability)
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529987#Comment_3529987
The thing is on a macro state sure, but that doesn't say anything about counterplay in chase. From the beginning I didn't argue about the need to change him, I just said that I find it a bit over the top to call him basically the worst, because we had many more terrible designs.
As for Spirit if we look at Hens' spirit showcase I don't think you have much of a chance to get the stun, especially if the spirit just takes pallet controll. If the spirit is good ofc.
I think old DS was this bad, there was not much you could do when he was behind you sure when you were far enough to drop a strong pallet, but besides that.
I absolutely agree that we had worse things. No argument there. OG legion absolutely went into that category. 7 blink nurse sure did as well (even though at that time people didn't know how to abuse her to our current disgusting level).
As for spirit - can you provide me video? Because I didn't see that one. I know that with old MDR+amulet, you could do absolutely disgusting things (I think it was actually best presented by Ayrun - and that general looping was indeed meaningless and camping pallet while really bad was your only option) and chances were stacked against you - but you still had agency.
Xeno does not care about predrops or stuns (provided he is not so damn very far, that he doesn't even get to hit-distance before you can LoS hide).
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529845#Comment_3529845
Agreed, and I am completely with you that I want Trapper buffed. He's a really cool character, and him being as weak as he is, just ain't right... even if BHVR want him to be the "simple starter" Killer character, he should remain somewhat viable at the high tiers.
Sadly the reality is, with how the game has changed over the years, Trapper's power is never gonna be top tier because fundamentally it requires players to step on the trap to do anything... and the game just isn't built this way, pushing survivors off gens and downing them fast in chase is what rules the roost here.
The only way to bring Trapper's power in line with everything else is to overload his kit to an absurd degree, which then always comes with the caveat that we have to consider Basement Trapper... and Basement, is where Trapper becomes really nasty, and kinda busted. If you have an ally trapped in basement, and Trapper has it locked down... you are very unlikely to get that guy out.
@thisislastyearsmodels post would make Trapper viable in normal play... but it would also make him pretty damned oppressive at basement camping and at low MMR, as the wounds and downs from Bloody Coil and Honing Stone at base is a big deal, and should require add-on commitment to attain.
So... if we accept that he's never gonna be top tier, what I'd like him to have is general quality of life improvements that at least keep him more fun to play and somewhat consistent. My changes personally would be: -
- Green Trapper Bag basekit. (1 extra trap off spawn and 1 additional carry capacity).
- Lengthened Jaws basekit (Deep Wound when escaping from traps).
- Allow Trapper to open a locker and grab a trap out of a locker on a 60 second cooldown. The furthest unset trap from him demanifests.
So the extra trap and trap space gives you some wiggle room for what add-ons you want to take, because I think pretty much everyone takes one of the add-ons that makes collecting and/or disarming of traps not a factor (the Iri's, the Trapper Bag/Trapper Sack). I keep toying with the idea of starting with 2 traps and having capacity for 3, so we can still have the Trapper bag as a viable add-on. Coupled with the locker addition, this would probably be fine?
The Deep Wound means you have an additional slow down on people caught on traps when you are too far away to capitalise. It also takes longer to heal so if you do want to pursue, you have more time of blood trails and whimpering to catch them.
The trap out of locker is a relatively easy to implement change that should work on any map (as opposed to managing all map spawns for current and future maps).
At High MMR we can expect Bloody Coil is then something you take often, lock down key paths, and punish anyone who tries to prevent it. With your accelerated early game set up time and improved trap acquisition through the whole game, you actually have the capacity to get traps down fast and actually start patrolling gens. This all ofc is still a problem for basement Trapper... but that will always be a thing no matter what we do.
This sounds very reasonable
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529974#Comment_3529974
I mean that is somewhat the same against a really good spirit, are like two pallets a map she needs to kick and everything else is useless and she will get a hit. I think old legion was even worse than that. Or when Pyramid Head first came out with the really short time betweens canceling the m2 and hitting an m1. There are many examples of killers with design that don't offer counterplay. Or Deathslinger with insta shooting. I don't think that Xeno is that much worse than those examples.
Old spirit without sound que - agreed. New spirit? No. You can always try to greed and go for stun. You will probably loose, but you have agency - if you are at decent pallet that is (also spirit is 110% so once she is out of power, you have plenty of time to move to next loop).
Old legion - agreed. He was worse. Thankfully they changed it.
Old pyramidhead - I think this is about the same thing - you also didn't have any counterplay and whatever you did was just loosing in a different way - but again, this was changed exactly because of it.
DS - he was 110% that could be played against well on macro scale. Sure enough, in 1v1 manner you had very little counterplay, but you could still predrop once injured which worked on strong pallets - so he wasn't this bad.
But do you notice you yourself, that you are now comparing him to all the killers that needed to be adjusted? Some of those in an age where survivors had super-busted things (like 4man hatch escape you could track with map even before doing gens and key that you could always use instantly for whole team escape)? The game got a lot more balanced for both sides. But now enters Xenomorph.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529963#Comment_3529963
If you get a really safe pallet you can also predrop that, but yeah it is mostly pre-running. The question is what skill level on the killer I can't really tell how good you need to be to hit over some loops, for example the rock tile on Ormond with the snowmobile... I saw ScottJund getting a hit over that thing, I however have no clue how hard it is to consistently hit over those tiles... Therefore I cannot really say if it takes a certain skill level to be oppressive on the killer or not.
It is hard. Don't get me wrong - this is not something anyone can do. But if you get someone who can do that - then your personal skill or experience as survivor absolutely does not matter. You just loose - because there's literally nothing you can do - just hold-W until you die in a corner
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@Archol123 said:
You really think Alien is worse then original legion? I mean as long as I don't get moonwalked follow by that guy I have not reached the most unfun thing in the game. And I would argue in the sense of oppresing a good Nurse is still further up, or a Good Spirit or a good Blight.
I fully agree that his counterplay is basically non existent besides the turrets and perhaps faking vaults, but outside of his tunnels he still has to walk as an 115% ms killer, so at least you can prerun to some degree?
I agree Xeno is problematic at least, but I wouldn't go as far as you did.
I think he's more oppressive then current nurse or blight without alch ring+C33. For nurse you can go edge map. For blight you can predrop. For xeno? You can buy yourself 6m IF you spend quite some time setting up turret and are able to take the chase to him - and that's it.
Xeno can hit above/thru most loops, can always disable turret by single M2 (that is not even punishing), can hit you even if he misses by dragging his hitbox, can hit you over any pallet and over any window.
So what's the counterplay? Only those turrets and they don't give you much while taking quite some + respawn slowly. Sure enough - this is the case only if Xeno actually knows how to grab his hitbox to reliably hit you over car loops (or anything lower) even if you are crouching.
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@DarthRevan21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/389704/xenomorph-is-awful-to-play-against
Again why not learn the counter play? He really isn't that hard to counter, just duck at a pallet. leave it to Survivor mains to whine on the forums.
????? Just duck on a pallet means the same thing as drop the pallet against huntress. If you verse someone that tried to play the killer for a few hours - you will get hit 100% of times. This is the actual issue with this killer - once people learn the ability, there's 0 counterplay against him
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529631#Comment_3529631
runner mode requires mechanical precision, situational awareness and timing to be used effectively. Xeno has deep skill-ceiling for a player to master. runner mode should be super oppressive when the killer has mastered the ability. weakening his m2 just makes him a free escape.
But this is the main issue - once you learn to play Xeno well, there's literally NOTHING as a survivor you can do to even try to loop him. You will just get hit on almost every loop in a game - and for those loops where you don't get hit immediately, you still need to pre-drop immediately.
Basically it means you can only shift-W and hope that somehow your team will get gens done in time anyway - because slowing down at like 90% of loops in game means you just got hit. That's god-tier-nurse-level oppressive - but Xeno has more map mobility (tunnels are quicker then blinks on large maps) and no edge map counterplay. The only thing that holds him back a little are turrets that take up long time to set up, take long time to respawn, but can be reliably deleted for m2's worth of cooldown (during which you still move at 50% speed).
Like try to play against that and tell me any possible counterplay against good xeno. Because I see literally nothing you can do. The only thing you can hope for is getting the game (possibly the only map that consists of only tall structures with pallets you can predrop). Any other map is instant gg against xeno that learned his whip. But even Gideon will not contain enough pallets to fix all gens in time (since it got nerfed now quite a long time ago).
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@Flawless_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528643#Comment_3528643
You do realize that there's still pallets and windows right? If you're repairing near a pallet or a window, you shouldn't have to be locking lockers to begin with. Double lockers existed before the Dredge and you only know a locker is locked until you are already teleporting to it for the first time. In any case the Dredge shouldn't be able to see locked lockers when teleporting ever and that'd solve the issue you're describing very easily unless you're a 3000IQ genius who can remember every single locker you've teleported to during a game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529066#Comment_3529066
Yes, that's how it works. The game forces you to teleport to the locked locker which means survivors can deny you of your power twice at the same spot.
During nightfall dredge can teleport/exit lockers so quickly, that you will not make it to closest window - providing locker is not locked. It's free hit most of the time.
Like dredge could use a slight buff, but it shouldn't be anything about lockers. If he get his nightfall a little quicker (so it's more often on), his mobility and lethality would be increased enough for him to be a menace.
Also - you can have a tripple locker in some rare occasions. In these rare spots - you can get denied 3x from same locker (example being RPD's unicorn room next to library, but mother's dwelling locker-gym has that too)
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Turrets can be countered just by noticing them and M2-ing them. What can't be countered is that lingering hitbox of a shoot ability, that can hit anything a deathslinger can, but can still turn miss into a hit.
His runner mode is super oppresive. I didn't care that turrets can be reliably deleted before, but considering there are very few loops where trained xeno can't hit you very quickly.... Turrets definitely need buffs or alternatively his M2 needs to be nerfed to indeed do only as much as people in this thread think it does (basically make it no better then nemesis's whip)
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@Felgoose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529566#Comment_3529566
TIL something new. Is it also a medium vault if you vault a window after running along the wall the window is attached? (rather than directly at the window)
Yes. There's a skill element to learning the angle and distance to get fast vs mid vault. The animation is very different for both - I suggest you train this one, as it's one of the biggest skill boost a new player can get in chase (the other ones being camera placement and check spots)
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@Felgoose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529528#Comment_3529528
Medium Vault? Does that exist? How long have I been in the dark on this?
Of course they exist. Medium vault is what happens if you stop next to window, press run button and vault (this takes 0.9s and leaves you touching the window from the other side so killer can hit you even after the vault).
If you run directly at the window for about 3-4m distance, you will vault window faster (0.5s) and you should be far enough from window, that killer can't hit you now (and this distance part is the topic of the thread).
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
Survivor players complaining about killers on launch day before even attempting to learn counter-play...
It's reworked Sadako all over again.
what is the counterplay? I played quite a lot of games against him. I found no counters. And I was using turrets since PTB (right now turrets buy you literally 1 miss CD's time for quite a hefty time investment). I want to know the counter play, because I can't figure anything after trying multiple different things
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528712#Comment_3528712
Deathslinger is 110% because he can shoot Survivors from ridiculous distance and through tiny gaps and get an injury even if the Survivor struggles out. A Deathslinger with STBFL can combo a hit with a harpoon shot fast enough that unless LOS is broken it's almost an insta-down.
Nemesis can't even injure you on the first tentacle strike and it has a longer reach than Xeno's tail on tier 1. There's only 4 vaccines on the map while turrets respawn infinitely.
What makes Xeno's tail seem so strong is that it has almost no telegraph and is harder to predict and bait.
Xeno has shorter distance on his whip, but same-sized hitbox (so he can also get insane hits thru miniscule holes), 115% speed, no reload and much shorter CD + almost no indication of using his M2. If he has STBFL stacks, he can double-tap too - but that would indicate M1 hit (which he absolutely does not need). He does not even waste time on reeling survivor in - he just hits people on almost any obstacle at game. Very easy play once you learn to hit M2's (semi) reliably
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I mean at least yesterday night I got killers that were bad with the ability (probably because of time of day and because how new he was).
Today - it feels there's no missing ability and there's no hiding. If you are within 5m and ghostface/meyers would be able to stalk you, then you get hit. 1/2 a time you want to predrop you will get hit anyway (because drop animation and then running to LoS block takes more time then running around basically any loop). If the loop is anything shorter then jungle gym, you get hit (so otherwise strong survivor maps like shattered square are instant GG). Turrets can be reliably and comfortably destroyed for a very short M2 cooldown. There's no position/ambush spot that would buy more time then that. And when he gets to you, you have 0 agency. Like. What am I to do as survivor? There's literally no good decision against the killer. Even juking his M2 does not work because of lingering hitbox and almost no warning of his M2 use. I want to know intended counterplay. Because even nurse has one (try to LoS block). This killer? Once killer-player learns to hit his ability - there's literally nothing you can do
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The perk is fine on killers that basically don't get bloodlust. Like pinhead, doctor, clown, etc
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After playing some more against him, he does seem bit too strong. No pallet and very few tiles are safe from him (and I don't mean "safe" in a way that you don't get hit. I mean safe to even try to loop. Most of the tiles might as well be Z-wall against him) when he has his power and the player playing him is used to his whip. It's like playing 115% deathslinger that does not need to reload at all and has shorter time to aim
You either stun him because he didn't pay attention, dodge him because he's outright bad or you have distance, are at a high loop and have possibility to predrop (in tiles like shack). Once he breaks the pallet, there's literally nothing you can do. Feels a bit like nurse, but there are no edge map obstacles. Only turrets that can be reliably disabled by single hit
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@Feneroe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528581#Comment_3528581
Crawler isn't a high powered state though. It just slightly reduces terror radius and allows the Xenomorph to use a mid-range attack. That's like saying survivors need a powerful tool to manage Nemesis tentacle or Deathslinger harpoon.
oh but they do. Nemesis has vaccines which is extra health state against his power and DS is 110% because of his harpoon (meaning pre-running and actually looping/hiding LoS is actually much easier then with 115% killers)
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What is the actual benefit of MfT when not in chase? Do those 3% matter? Because you can't pre-run and then once the distance is close enough instantly heal (to get healing prompt, you need to be standing for about 1s) - meaning any benefit you could potentially gain is immediately wiped out by you needing to heal.
The only possible benefit is 3% movement speed when going between gens. That's realistically how much time saved? 1s if you travel a lot?
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@BlazenW01f said:
So something I noticed is how it's almost impossible to get a hit with his tail if the survivors aren't in an animation. For example in one of my games I was not even 20 meters away from a survivor and I do my tail attack. The tail clearly hit them (i saw it go through their body) but they run away like nothing happened at all.
20 meter? His tail range is about the same as Nemesis's tentacle (so about 6m - I don't know precise number).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528289#Comment_3528289
Pretty much. I just played against a 4 man RPD offering that all traded putting a turret in main hall and all ran to it all game. Just annoying as hell
And I presume the game lasted 12-15 minutes or more. Turrets take quite a lot of time and can be deleted VERY quickly (but truth is, they take up chase time so distance is indeed bought). He feels a little weak this patch, but I would not make judgment call just yet (it's been literally just a few hours of xeno patch). Also - seeing some streamers today - they basically "never" had problem hitting turret before it kicked them off of power (only by choice if they hit survivor instead of turret).
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IDK, for now he feels a little underwhelming to me right now. His hits are pretty unforgiving (but on the other hand - he can get hits where most killers can't if player hits the right spot - similar to death slinger).
Maybe when players get to know him better he will be challenging (because he has the kit, I just hope he will not share singularity's fate of being too hard for people to want to master him).
EDIT: fix of too convoluted sentence
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527159#Comment_3527159
For the people is a great perk on its own and can provide a lot of value and be a game changer (saving a tunneled team mate, quickly countering a slug play from the killer, etc.), but it’s another case of “why would I run this perk when I can run just something else that is less situational and doesn’t require others” especially in solos. FTP shines more also in coordinated teams, which just isn’t the majority of the cases.
As you said it's very situational. It indeed can provide value for tunneled person, but that would require your teammate being hard-tunneled, tunneled person being good chaser, but you have that 1 extra second to spare to activate FTP - so most likely just taking the hit is better option (it probably gives same amount of time, but does not need a perk slot and time to apply it).
Real value is if killer is trying to slug/bleedout somebody stubbornly. But how often do you see that? I would say even 1 in 100 games is too much (but I am not toxic towards killers - even though I play sabotages which can be considered annoying, so if that's the case then maybe it's more for you? This is pure guess and I am not trying to blame you of anything. I am just thinking of possibilities).
That's too situational to be worth a perk slot on it's own.
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I had a similar post - my solution was to block (and someone corrected me to make them appear to be dull instead) for first say 20s of trial. I think that would be better solution. The reason being even your example is flawed (undying should show when you are next to dull totem, because it shows aura of survivors - not just protect other hexes)
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For the people without buckle up is pretty mediocre perk.
Like it's not as bad as say dark theory, but there's a reason why the usage rate more then tripled for a time after buckle up buff/rework. If you remove this interaction (and those 2 are a little too strong sometimes - I agree with this one), then FTP will again get to it's forgotten perks place.
Instead to make the interaction more fair - make it so buckle up can be applied only 3s after someone is downed (slightly nerf the stronger perk out of those 2 with specific OP interaction it provides).
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527107#Comment_3527107
So you get proven wrong with Cold hard basic math, and still try to counter argue... and im the "biased" one?
Make that make sense cause it surely doesn't seem distortion isn't "1/4th of the strength" when a single perk can hard counter entire builds.
We're not talking about "countering" in the way that coulrophobia makes healing builds *less effective* we're talking about countering in the way that a killer bringing an aura build is effectively perkless if survivors bring distortion.
Again, this post is just asking for distortion tokens be a little bit harder to generate, either requiring active chase OR not generating while in active chase, distortion would still be strong without full hard countering aura builds.
So you are trying to say that 1 distortion means you will see 0 people with your lethal pursuer (meaning your perk got really countered by 1 survivor perk)? Or to actually have killer wasted perk slot you would need to use 4 perks instead (1 distortion on each survivor).
Are you trying to deliberately not understand?
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526721#Comment_3526721
You're trying to compare a killer wasting 1/4th (25%) of their perk slots to counter 1/16 perks (6.25%) (1/20 (5%) if you consider flashlights / Items as pseudoperks) to a survivors "wasting" 1/16th of their perks and being able to counter 25-100% of a killer's build. Mathematically speaking distortion is 4-5x better than lightborn in terms of value.
Not to mention most times lightborn is brought is against flashlights, and in that case survivors are free to exchange their pseudoperk for a toolbox / medkit *while in the match*
Distortion token generation requiring active chase, OR NOT being able to regen while in chase would be a fine enough balance change that wouldn't "kill the perk"
You'd still get your Anti-Lethal value , and 2 extra tokens for free.
Ah right. Because distortion removes visions for all 4 players. Oh wait. It doesn't. It's as if distortion has 1/4th of the strength of killer's perk. Who would have thought. Still I am sure you won't see this because of bias
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@CarbonaraCharlie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526662#Comment_3526662
I honestly think lightborn should be nerfed to just giving a longer duration before flashlight blinds can happen. The fact is though that lightborn counters an item, not perks.
Please tell me why distortion is a perk with tokens? Is it because the devs intended it to be up for the entire game? Or is it because it was meant to run out of tokens after a lot of use.
I’m really not asking for much here, just make the token regeneration slower. Aura perks should be countered to an extent by this perk, not completely blocked.
As for lightborn vs distortion perk argument - Blast mine, residual manifest, flashbang are not perks?
As for reason for tokens - it forces survivor to be close to killer to recharge them. Otherwise you could be hidden in a corner of a map and hold the game hostage for an hour without a chance to counter that.
@CarbonaraCharlie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526691#Comment_3526691
I’m using Nemisis with Lethal and No where to hide. I usually tend to find survivors with distortion on a gen so I kick the gen (Removing one stack) and start chase. Throughout the chase, they rebuild their tokens so that they cannot be found again. This means no matter what I do, distortion is constantly up making 2 of my perks useless.
Tokens are easy to come by because there is no requirement other than being in the killer’s terror radius which happens naturally. Having it be like stakeout or making it so it only builds tokens based on chase would make it require more effort, which would be a good thing. It would still allow for regen though and give people distortion for most of the game.
NWO is a clutch of an aura perk. I know, because I used it a lot too. IMO it's the main reason why so many distortions are in game now (disregarding overall perk nerf that happened over several patches now).
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526629#Comment_3526629
The "Seeing swf in lobby would kill DbD because everyone will dodge" is a blatant lie that im surprised people are still using, as other games are here that let you know if you are against a premade group of teams and they are still healthy.
Swap those numbers you have and they are probably much more close to the truth. Out of 100 killers, 93 of them would probably chose to play the game and 7 would dodge. That would be closer to reality.
In that case it shouldn't be problem to show killer in lobby. I am sure skull merchant will still find a game for exactly the same reasons
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So killers were mad at shattered hope, because it takes up perk slot and it might do absolutely nothing + it's not even guaranteed perfect counter to boons and yet they do complain when the cards are perfectly reversed too? How interesting.
So the perk that does nothing if the other side does not bring specific build - check. Does not do the job perfectly (token drain on some spam aura killers, see other survivors, etc) - check.
If the history should repeat itself, survivors would ask for aura perks/addons to be nerfed. But no. Instead "it's time to nerf distortion"
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Spirit is still one of the strongest killers in game. She does not need any compensation at all.
Talking purely about logic of addons - some of them could be adjusted or totally reworked (Juniper Bonsai, Yakuyoke Amulet, Furin) but that does not mean they should make her as strong as she used to be. Also - spirit has 3 bad addons, while Pyramidhead has 3 good addons (where all of those are just range) - so IMO Spirit is fine as is and should be touched only after all the other issues are solved.
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@Archol123 said:
Also for the "tierlists put her in B tier argument", here I have a tierlist that makes a lot of sense from pcgamesn that is two weeks old:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2TGOH0PUOUBB/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/34SL9LJEBYOK/image.png
I mean honestly look at this mess, this thing is all over the place. Basically nothing makes sense here and I have no clue what their arguments are, because the text explaining it is just as useless.
Any tierlist that puts my pinhead at bottom of D-tier is just pure joke. Might as well be RNG-generated tierlist
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524011#Comment_3524011
But with legion you injure a couple of guys and still have to deal with the god pallet city, also yes I am well aware that map is insane for nurse. You can say the same for compound 33 blight (seriously you should try him on that map). It is just for killers that have to care about the pallets its just not fun and if they play smart can be hard to win. Shelter woods is a map which especially before its main building felt like it had too few pallets. Some maps like disturbed ward have insane main buildings which you can enter from anywhere so pallet count not that big of a deal, ormond is well ormond etc. There are still quite a few maps with fine/too high pallet counts.
As I said - some killers indeed suffer there. But IMO most (not vast majority) are very good at the map.
As for legion - try julie's mixtape+iri button+enduring+spirit fury+2 other perks (like jolt + pain res). That's almost free win (but sure enough, you need to bring build)
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526151#Comment_3526151
According to external data the kill rate has fallen below 50%, well away from the desired 60%.
We'll see what happens when Behaviour releases data from the past couple of months.
According to nightlight, average kill rate right now is 52.772369% (weighted average by pickrate from last 28 days) which is more then 50% (the only fair number - but those 53% are close enough). What is your source?
@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526151#Comment_3526151
No, your argument is not "as valid".
you're trying to claim a killer playing with certain add-ons / perks that enable them to win is the same level of "disgusting" as a SWF bringing 4 flashlights, head on , flashbang, etc, just to make the killer's playtime absolutely miserable.
Killer cannot opt out of the match once its loaded to avoid this crap, meanwhile survivors can hookicide if they go up against your so called "disgusting playstyles"
Bottom line is, knowing if the match youre about to play is going to give you flashlight induced migraines is very different from knowing if the match you're about to play is against a little bit of a more compy blight.
Not just win. You can get chess merchant for a very miserable game for 50+ minutes. If she is spicy and refuses to hook - you can try to bleedout which takes another 30mins (down, pickup, let survivor wiggle off, down again). IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING!
And if flashlights are such a huge problem for you (it's absolutely no problem for me - because basically it's almost always free slowdown for you once you learn to play against it), you can still bring single perk that counters every blind-inducing perk/item/addon survivor can bring.
@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526262#Comment_3526262
bringing up "matchmaking" as a counter argument to killers asking for the most miniscule of ability to tell if they are going to be in actual real physical pain thanks to flashlight induced migraines is quite frankly, ridiculous.
lobby shopping is quite literally survivor induced thanks to bully squads, the fix to that starts with discouraging and punish bully squads by making them take longer to find matches, not force the killers to endure 10-20 minutes of torture or take an ever increasing DC penalty.
You are not asking to make games miserable to bully squads. You are asking to make games miserable for SWF. That's so imprecise as telling killers have no counterplay and can win 1340+ times in a row once they get good with it (there's a comp blight main with said continuing win streak). Also - bully squad is today such a broad term as tunneling or gen rushing - ask for a definition from 10 people and you get 11 answers.
@Snowball777 said:
Hide Prestige levels for Survivors pre game, and show both their prestige level AND who is partied up with who in the post game screen.
There, this is fair, you can see if you played against a SWF or not, and now nobody has to worry about lobby dodging.
Easy fix that makes everyone happy.
Yes. Do this
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@FeryGEN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525401#Comment_3525401
This will increase the search time. The listed killers simply will not find players for themselves, even those players who have never even played against these killers, the killers themselves might not have played this killer even once and would rather lose, but the match will not start due to the dodging of these killers
Exactly. Same as seeing lobby is 4man. It doesn't even matter if those 4 can't chase and don't have comms. Exactly the same thing.
@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525401#Comment_3525401
Found the SWF main.
See, the problem with letting survivors see the Killer would make it trivial to counter them. Know you're against a Plague? Bring perks like MFT, Resilience, etc. Doctor? Bring Calm Spirit.
Knowing how many survivors in the lobby are in a premade doesn't give the killer an advantage over the survivor. You have no idea what perks they are running. All it does is allow the Killer to make an informed decision whether it's worth playing against four man SWF bully squads.
I play killer more then swf these days... Also, soloQ is so miserable, that it's the only role I refuse to touch.
And no. Comms are definitely NOT the main reason. Mmr is.
And another thing - don't try to kid anyone in here. You want the info to lobby dodge for very easy soloQ games. Because soloQ is basically free win for every slighly experienced killer (you just have to find that 1 missmatched weak survivor and turn the game to 3v1 for no brain super easy win even if you are much less experienced then the other 3 survs).
@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525692#Comment_3525692
Because people are tired of going up against a well coordinated group that finish all generators within 5-8 minutes when not playing Nurse. It is very draining to go up against the same meta cheese. It makes for very unbalanced games. What is the point of loading into a match know your chances of winning are slim and you feel powerless simply because premades are overpowered? It just isn’t fun.
This is so not true.
1, killers still have above 50% kill rate
2, Hens's experiment for trappless addonless no camp no tunnel no slug experiment still yealds over 90% escape rate in pubs. This patch. So you are trying to tell me it's impossible to win in high mmr with killers that have/use abilities and addons? Or is it in fact skill issue?
@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526011#Comment_3526011
You're trying to compare killers being able to tell if a match is going to be potentially sweaty/bully tier SWFs with survivors being able to see what killer they are up against and their powers.
It doesnt take a PHD in game design to understand that survivors being able to see what kind of killer they are up against would allow survivors to bring direct counter perks to the killers power.
Got plague / legion? Bring mft,resi and other "while injured " perks.
Got doctor? Bring calm spirit.
Got huntress or trickster? Bring distortion.
Etc etc.
SWFs wouldn't run the risk of getting lobby dodged if they weren't so disgusting to play against, trying to force someone else to endure 50 chainblinds, 20 pallet stuns and 2 minutes of tbagging at gates is just peak survivor main entitlement.
Pattern recognition exists for a reason, and the killer playerbase identifies swfs and high prestige solos as potentially unfun due to horrible experiences with said groups.
Killers should endure being lobby dodged if they are so disgusting to go against.
see? I can make the same argument and it's just as valid. Because going against C33 ring comp blight on one side and 3-gen locking kick simulator skull merchant on the other side is exactly that. Same for a whole long list of other killers.
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@JustAShadow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525361#Comment_3525361
Way too situational to consider it a problem and won't be too different to a current iteration of a perk.
It would. NOED (movement speed), NWO (time to kill everyone), rancor and game afoot would create very nasty gameplay that is quite frankly unhealthy. Like the whole game until last gen pops would be basically almost meaningless (apart from taking pallets from survs and getting stacks for NWO).
And this build is already viable and some people play it for a gimmick/fun. Yet it's not very strong, so most people don't run it - with your version, well... It's no longer just gimmick
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Show survivors their killer. At least this way it will be all of Wesker, Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Legion, Knight, Onryo and skull merchant that will have 1 hour long lobby - not just people that wish to play with their friends.
Horrendous idea. This would be one of those things that would get a shot at killing the game.
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Absurdly unhealthy perk.
It would be as bad, as survivor being able to create full-blown pallets if they are in chase for say 40s (and it resets upon use and stops charging up when not in chase). No. Bad idea. Don't include such a thing into a game
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@ProudRinMain I meant from 20m and more. Not 20m and less. Also furin right now makes everyone hear noise - I propose to remove phasing sounds (if you start charging from 21m away from survivor you are going for). It's just one proposition - but it works with the theme of the addon (also if I remember right, it used to work a little like this once).
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@ProudRinMain Change the distance to 20m instead of 24m. In this distance do not show any que but regular footsteps (maybe moving grass) - this way spirit can play semi-stealthy. It's still skillful, because she needs to be out of LoS and can't just know to go to gen (because gen sound distance is shorter), but she can still surprise survivors from time to time (especially if they are around something loud - like said generator)
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@Caiman said:
I'd have no problem with high-Prestige players if it wasn't for SWFs. Multiple high-Prestige players in a lobby usually means a SWF of at least 2 or 3. Multiple P100s is a guarantee. I don't want to play against that, and I have every right to not want to play against that so long as this game enables people to act toxic and horrible without repercussions.
The matchmaking is going to be terrible whether people dodge lobbies or not.
So do I get the same right to ban a few killers, because "I don't want to play against that and I have every right to not want to play against that"
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@ProudRinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524903#Comment_3524903
Spirit can’t be compared to Blight as she doesn’t get downs as fast as he can. She doesn’t recharge her power as quickly as he does. She has to stop to charge her power whereas blight just rushes at a survivors not losing any distance and bumping into an obstacle then getting a hit quickly. He moves at old MDR movement speed by default for 5 rushes whereas Spirit moves at a lower speed for 5 seconds while blind being susceptible to constant weird audio bugs
You should have seen Ayrun play MDR+amulet spirit. He was toying with survivors so badly (and I am talking both pub games and KYF). Sure - this was pre-nerf version, but with that build I am totally convinced blight and nurse were weaker. And this is not just Ayrun. I saw comp players. Hack I even saw what my incompetent (in comparison to them) hands can do with it.
Sure - I am talking specifically MRD+amulet+skilled hands with good headset. But that thing was so nasty, that sorry - the comparison with blight 100% works (thankfully those addons are nerfed - but we are right now talking about buffing 1 of those back. So careful).
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@ProudRinMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524760#Comment_3524760
you know what, how about making the downside be about depleting the power bar fully if Spirit fails to hit a survivor IMMEDIATELY post-phase or if she lunges? That would make it a high risk, high reward add-on and make it an iridescent.
it would require you to be very precise in your phases and not just short bursting aimlessly hoping to get a hit by any means.
i dont know i just want a fun add-on for once 😭 anything, i’m not a toxic Spirit main i play fair and give everyone a chance my build is literally Beast of prey, Distressing, Hex: thrill of the hunt and lethal pursuer.it’s basically a build around getting blood points. And they could rework Dried cherry blossom so it wouldn’t be paired with it for easy hits.
You having some build does not mean everyone will play it like that. You still need to think about overall outcome the proposed thing has - otherwise we will have another blight with lower skill floor
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Sure. And reduce gate opening time to 10s + make them spawn in guaranteed direct opposite of each other + create LoS blocker wall in front of it... Is that OP? So is poster's suggestion
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I think this killer would have too much power now. You get that there's absolutely nothing to be done when being hunted by 2 knights + killer that are all inspired by each other?
Like sure - the devil is in details. If you provide high enough numbers, this can work. But then we are getting to same-ish territory as Meyers with his 2 ultra rare addons (he's weak until endgame, but if he gets his power soon enough, it's GG without any real counterplay - so feast or famine = people will complain he's OP and trash-tier at the same time).
I generally love the idea. It could be very cool. But I would maybe take away a mechanic or two and make things working more reliably. But overall - yes sounds very nice compared to existing knight
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You don't even need to wait for 3 chains. That just makes it super easy. What you actually have to do, is dodge the chain before it hits the ground (start solving the box while chain is still mid-air, but after it no longer flies at you). It's very quick this way.
The only issue is occasional bug that happens with chains (I didn't see it for some time, but as it is already quite a rare bug, I am not sure if it was patched already or if I was lucky) - that they don't fly at people that they should fly at AND fly at people that should be immune from them - meaning there can be a bug that chains will spawn at you even after you are solving the box for a few seconds (after waiting for 3rd chain and that stuff) and there can be a bug where there are 2+ standing survivors, you are working on a gen/healing yourself, chain hunt is active, but you won't get interrupted anyway. But as I said - these are rare and I am not sure if they are still in game.
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@I_CAME said:
I honestly hated hook grabs. There were way too many situations where the killer was being demolished and then snowballed because of one hook grab. It was a really cheesy way to turn a game around and i'm glad it's gone. Especially against solo players who can't communicate that the killer is camping. The real question is do we even need a full anti camp system now that hook grabs are gone? Hook grabs being removed solved most of my issues with facecamping. It's a very risky strategy now if the survivors are healthy since they will just run in and trade at the last second.
IMO for most of the killers this is enough. But there are still some killers that need that mechanics (pinky clown, any huntress with hook on hill/basement, trickster, bubba, billy, infinite T3 meyers, ...).
Anyway, the change feels very good. I don't miss it one bit on killer's side and it feels very good on survivor
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Furin is bad right now, but would be too much in OP's version. Just mute her ability-sounds if she starts her ability from 20m or more from survivor and let her have footsteps. That will make her be able to jump survivors on gens (but good survivors would know if she wants to jump them while say healing).
As for amulet - the downside is indeed too much and can be removed - but by doing so the bonus amulet provides would also be too much. Make it 40% instead of 70% (so +2s instead of +3.5s), or slow down her ability by only somewhere between -5% and -10% (I can't say exact number as I haven't tried the effect myself - but current version feels worse then empty perk slot)
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LP is example of very strong perk, that is perfectly fine the way it is and does not need any tinkering one way or another
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524325#Comment_3524325
This is basically how it works. Every escape is win for this surv and every death is lost for this surv, and opposite for the killer except to consider "win" or "loose" its sum of those.
yes. That's what I said. And that's what I provided in link too :)