Freudentrauma
Freudentrauma
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Queue times are also quite time related. Right now around 1pm killer queues are long and survivors short, while at the evening when there are probably more SWF online the killer queues are short and survivor long. It really depends when you play.
But back to topic. I don't think that the Undying+Ruin-nerf will harm survivors that much. KRed rank killers are already sweating and the combo was mostly strong against weaker/unlucky players. I personally think the new MMR will have a much higher impact ont he player experience in general.
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Quite obvious
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DS + Unbreakable aren't comparable to instaheals. Perks aren't a limited ressource like items, Addons & Offerings. "Surprise nerfing" one of those makes more sense, because of the reason you said. But with something that you can equip any game either way, it really doesn't matter. You don't have to save them for bad times. So you might as well use it every match.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Unpopular opinion: if you complain about being exhausted on the ground you don't even know how to use Dead Hard in the first place.
You mean not using it for what it's supposed to? Because there is nothing a survivor can do against high ping killers from countries that should have their own servers.
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As long as I can camp Survivors to death, can completely defend the basement chest, cannot be removed from the match until it's over, have mercy and give the hatch to survivors, suddenly turn a losing game around by slugging all survivors, meme around without worring that the other side takes that away from me I am the power role of the game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1872388#Comment_1872388
Hm. Yeah, it only happened two times, pretty sure this will not happen a third time. /s
They never released data. Only data based stats like average killrate. The OP is asking for actual data/stats the devs have. That's of course impossible from a privacy/company secret standpoint. But it's different than to give us an average killrate of a killer without any information about perks played, maps, variety of kills, offerings, how many gens were powered when survivors were sacrificed/killed and what else they might be able to track.
With all that information making strange arguments would be harder, because the same data can be used to point out flaws and wrong conclusions by other community members.
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@Zozzy said:
They are working on making it even more braindead.
They don't like that you can become exhausted on the ground if you try to time it when the killer swings, so are probably going to prioritize it somehow to take that away from the killer and make it work 100% of the time without effort.
You mean they are trying to fix it to properly work within it's intended use.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860195#Comment_1860195
Nobody is going to grind to get to rank 1 just for this bonus. It's just a nice passive bonus for playing the game.
You underestimate people. Some would even grind for Rank 1 even without the bonus. And the small bonus is reason enough to grind as well.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Community: "Devs, limit the grind"
Devs: "Ok, how about free BPs just from playing the game?"
Community: "This is horrible. How dare you."
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Being facetious, but c'mon, these are free BPs. There is no need to grind for them. Just play the game as much as you usually would and you'll make more BPs than you usually would. Sounds good to me.
The grind is still an issue, but they have been giving away lots more currency recently than in the past and we've seen bloodweb changes that make getting usable perk builds easier (e.g. more perks per bloodweb). The 4th anniversary event gave out a ludicrous amount of BPs too; I'm still working through my gateaux... I think they're just trying to alleviate things here and there rather than just cut bloodweb costs in half or something. I don't blame them for not wanting to go too far the other direction and rapidly max-leveling everyone. Again, still room to improve, but this change is another step in the right direction.
Yeah, no. The problem lays with the entire "go back to Rank 20" reset. Somebody who doesn't have much time to play the game regurlaly but not often, will bearly hit high rewarding levels, while the ones that put time into it will. It's another grind incentive, that it's actually harmfull for players and incentives to unhealthy sweaty play, that makes you play more than you want to. And even if you won't be part of it, you will feel it. People will sweat for pips, especially close to the reset etc.
And it just adds. It adds more to stuff like challenges, Rift, login bonuses etc. It's just another grind added to the game. And it will work. Sadly. It will work to hook people and boost the player base in an unhealthy way.
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@Crypticghoul said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858652#Comment_1858652
It gives killers that play for 12 hooks a metric on the screen to gauge how well they did without just having to pat themselves on the back. I think it's a pretty healthy change to make no kills or 1-2 kills feel better and I like it.
You can put that into the Tally screen. Killer don't progress linear with hooks. Some kill their first survivor with the third or the ninth hook. The counter is not really gameplay relevant and is therefore unnecessary information.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1847812#Comment_1847812
I've seen clips of the same thing but with a ghostface, they're all over reddit.
Jep saw similar with Hillbilly. But to be honest. Those are doing this cheats so obviously. They know they get banned when recorded and reported. I'm more worried about those who cheat not so obviously by only changing small values. I honestly hoped that dedicated servers would have helped more to prevent such hacks. Well most likely it even does. It's just not seem to be enough.
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@Babatom said:
This is simply about not rewarding killers for face camping. If the survivor sits through both struggle stages, the others can do 3 gens and it's likely some will escape. Unhooking the survivor for bloodpoints is likely to reward the killer with more hooks (if they have built/selected a killer that excels at camping), which makes face camping a viable strat.
So long as survivors feed themselves to face campers, killers will continue to do it. Some face camp just to try and get a reaction, in which case it's still best to just not reward it and let them have a boring game stood next to a hook.
Doesn't change the issue for the person hooked. It's also not the player's job to fix gameplay flaws. Hooking is problematic and boring. And the game punishes the player who gets camped to a long and boring death, where they even have to button smash for a full hook stage.
Besides that, the main reason why camping isn't popular lies more in the fact, that it's boring for both sides. Yeah and can be challenging or rewarding for the Killer, if the remaining survivor go for a safe, but even then the interaction is highly limited by it's defensive style. I wuld argue that Killers mostly don't camp for the same reason some survivors search for the chase instead of doing gens. It's more interesting, exciting and has more variety in playstyle.
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About DS/Unbreakable:
Nah I understand what your are going for, but making specific rules for a perk combo is not good design. To give you an example compare it with exhaustion perk e.g. Exhaustion is there to limit the combinations of those in a chase. But they don't have specific rules to change each other. Instead they have a global side effect, that makes it easier to include future perks as well.
Besides that the issue isn't really with the DS/Unbreakable-Combo. It's because DS is abusable in it's current form in general, by giving survivors a basicly 60s "free pass" after an unhook. Even forcing the killer to slug is part of it beeing abusable. Unbreakable is actually fine as an anti-slug perk.
About Undying: Yeah, that would be fine probably. Making it once per Hex would balance it out a little. On the other hand, if you replace the Aura reveal, then you need something else that allows it to scale based on Tiers, because currently it's the aura reveal time. And the Hex replacing effect is not scalable. I know that sounds weird, but that's an issue DbD has to deal with in it's perk design.
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They have an anti-camp restriction, that doesn't allowe to unbind Victor or switch character in a certain distance towards a hooked survivor. It's possible to cirumvent it by placing viktor close to the hook before hooking the survivor. And that might feel inconsistent, but it isn't.
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My guess is that it's harder for them to come up with interesting skins that fit him. SImilar with Plague whose unique design make it harder as well to come up with something interesting.
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@MasonOliver123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1839465#Comment_1839465
I think they're still needed and not outdated, considering the strength of exhaustion perks, one dead head can recover a failed mistake and drag on chases an extra 30 + seconds. They're strong addons, should be purple, 10-15 seconds.
That's more an issue of exhaustion perks per se. And they aren't all that strong or problematic. DH is also seeing a recoding as far as we know. It doesn't really fix the issues because it only does something in very specific circumstances etc.
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Not sure. On one hand it would help against tunneling and incentive to balance the game out more towards the killers. On the other hand is the current form of DS problematic and abusable.
A good start would be having a guranteed obsession each game. Killers kinda have to play around DS in those situations.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1836856#Comment_1836856
The thing is,why are they giving the cosmetics through codes that expire after a few days instead of just giving them to everyone at the start of the winter event like they usually did?
That would have been the better way to do it imo.
Well to be fair. The Sweaters aren't for free usually. Just hitting the store and I wouldn't be surprised, if some of the Sweaters will hit the store some time in the future as well. Only the Frosty eyes were for free.
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You either quite unlucky or probably playing during a time period, where good survivors are more common to face as a killer.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1831469#Comment_1831469
I think it's somewhat good tho that bad nurses are getting punished and can't get carried by addons etc. Sure it can be a bit rough learning nurse first off but that's more than a reasonable trade off for the power she gives you when you learn her. The cooldown helps to stop nurses from just spamming their blinks and in a way actually helps newer nurses because it teaches/forces them to be more patient on the blinks.
Define "Spamming their blinks" for a killer who primarly moves with that ability and that had already a downside in visuals/cooldown before the changes.
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That won't fix the most problematic issues with DS. The main issue is, that DS kinda gives survivors a form of 60s invincibility to do regless things and either force the DS or a slug on the killer. A good example is hook rushing, or doing other objectives right in the killers face. Maybe even to provoke a grab or search immediatly for a chase etc. Especially combined with other not that problematic perks like Unbreakable or BT, DS becomes broken.
This would only fix those issues in the endgame and maybe adress the fact, that a killer can't do much as soon gens are powered and to many survivor alive than play very defensive. But I would argue it's more crutual to adress the abusability of DS in general. The activation timer should be lost under certain circumstances as soon the survivor goes back to action like unhooking, cleansing Totems, fixing gens etc.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
It will probably take a while until the PTB for the Midchapter-Patch (last time, it was mid-February), so it would be quite early for News.
Mid-February-PTB was actually Deathslinger's PTB. The last two MidChapter-PTBs were mostly on the second week of January, right after people came back from their holiday vacations. Wouldn't be surprised if it will be similar this year. So far Behaviour doesn't seem like they go way off theyr usual schedule.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Killer can already do something about it: camp.
If the survivor is foolish enough to crawl their, punish them by making sure the remaining survivors are down 2 teammates helping them out.
Yeah, that's sadly true. It's an invitation for camping. Still I would prefer it to be fixed, because camping is the only option you have as a killer and that's not the optimal one for the health of the game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1832627#Comment_1832627
"No those nerfs were not justified both nurse and hillbilly had perfectly fine base kits that didn't need nerfing"
Their Base Kits were not fine. Nurse got created by the same people who put in Moris without hooking, BNPs which repair a full Gen, Infinites and many other stuff. This should show that the decision making during this period of time was not the best. Nurse is basically a design failure, which is still in the game because they cannot just remove her. And I am 100% sure that if she would not be in the game, she would never be created like this anymore.
""just play another killer" is stupid. Having characters that are completely boring and bring no enjoyment is unhealthy for the game and the fact that you don't want those characters fixed is just awful. And why should I be forced to play certain characters if I want to have fun. Also, you have to realize every killer is different and you can't just play a different one and get the same experience as another."
Fun is 100% subjective. If you dont think certain Killers are fun, dont play them. You have many to choose from. Killers you dont like might be fun for others and Killers I dont like are a blast for other players. So "not fun" is not really an argument, since this is your opinion.
"What's with people and just forgetting that nurse is the hardest killer to learn? It's almost like a killer that takes high skill should give high reward"
You still get high reward, it is not like Nurse is weak. Also, being the hardest Killer to learn does not mean that you should keep her as a completely imbalanced design failure as she was without the Recharges and with her old Add Ons.
"First "the game is so much easier for killer" lol nice joke."
It is easier for Killers. Sorry if you still struggle to play Killer, this might just mean that you are not good enough.
Nurse got created by the same people who put in Moris without hooking, BNPs which repair a full Gen, Infinites and many other stuff. This should show that the decision making during this period of time was not the best. Nurse is basically a design failure, which is still in the game because they cannot just remove her. And I am 100% sure that if she would not be in the game, she would never be created like this anymore.
The same people also created Killers like Wraith or Trapper and the rest of the game. Stuff that still works quite well these day. The time period, when she was created isn't that important. Even though she was already nerfed from her original state. Besides that I wouldn't call a Killer a design failure. While beeing strong, the majority of the player base always took her quite well. The great thing about Nurse is, that her base mechanics is that it is just a game changer. A killer who is designed to move mostly with her ability, and with complete different rules during chases is actually a quite great design. Besides that compared to other newly designed killers, she was designed with a lot of tells in mind. Survivor just rarely use it against her and she had a bunch of busted addons, that circumvented those tells.
And to be honest looking at Blight or Victors base mechanics it does look like the devs actually are getting back in designing killers with Nurse like playstyles. Blight is actually the closest who comes close to nurse in his style. On the other hand it's true, that Devs wouldn't probably design her that way directly. But mostly for "consistency" reasons. And there is still a lot wrong with their current design philosophy as well. Or at least questionable decisions.
Fun is 100% subjective. If you dont think certain Killers are fun, dont play them. You have many to choose from. Killers you dont like might be fun for others and Killers I dont like are a blast for other players. So "not fun" is not really an argument, since this is your opinion.
Problem is, that Nurse and Billy are base game killers. The others aren't. Thinking about the base game itself that argument is quite flawed. And yes, you can unlock killers with shards, but that takes quite some time. Not comparable with unlocking characters in other games. Of course with a good reason in mind. They are DLCs. (Even though I have to admit that Billys changes barely changed anything for me. The problematic stuff of him is still there, only his skillfull aspects aspect is affected by the change and doesn't really matter if you compare him to other stronger killers like Oni, who is a DLC killer)
Besides that. saying "fun is subjective" is a flawed argument as well. By that argument killers could camp you to death each game and say "well fun is subjective" or your opinion, that she is a "failed design" as well etc. Not everything is subjective in Game design. Otherwise there wouldn't be any critical acclaimed games, that are considered well designed etc. There is something like game feel. Something that might sound subjective in your mind, but is actually quite a thing that is kinda mutual shared between humans. Mostly because we all are humans, so perceiving thins mostly similar because of it is part of it. Actually our sense of fairness plays a role as well. Mutual experiences in a group lead to similar perceived feel of fairness. There wasn't that one person in DbD who decided certain things like tunneling/camping are unfair e.g. and shared that knowledge to everybody. Several people made the experience and perceived it that way.
And like said, there is good reason why so many players are calling current Nurse clunky. No matter how you look at it, but putting two cooldowns in parallel on a killer whose primarly movement is via her ability is not intuitive design. Also it's strange, when the majority of the player base is either ignoring the killer or every other new AddOn they designed for her over the ones, that reduce that second cooldown to bring her as close as possible to her old playstyle. I would call that a "failed design", because why even design those other AddOns. Why even design the those cooldowns?
And let's not forget the bugs, that need to be adressed and other clunky stuff of her ability like unblinkable spots on maps, which is unintuitive as well.
It is easier for Killers. Sorry if you still struggle to play Killer, this might just mean that you are not good enough.
That point I have to disagree as well. DbD is not a skill orientated game. There are so many things that influence the outcome, where losing a game meant bad luck or other circumstances. That counts for survivors as well. Especially because a single survivor has limited influence on the game as well. Besides that I would argue that people are actually good at adapting. And it's a game where 4 brains fight one after all. The killer might be the power role, but nothing change that fact. Their mistakes mean more and it's always more stressfull than survivor. But that's the core design of the game. And it works. So...
But really I heavily dislike the argument telling others they are just bad, because they struggle. I hate it when killer do this. I hate it when survivors do this as well. It's not really an argument, just denouncing people.
And BTW: I loved facing a good Nuse. Still love it and will always love it. I barely play her and when than with Spasmodic Breath, because that AddOn is more fun, then it should be on paper. Billy is also a killer I miss facing. Even though there was a time I was annoyed by him a long time ago, when he was basicly almost the only killer you faced in red ranks a long time ago.
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@VikingWilson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1831951#Comment_1831951
I'd love to look ahead, but they're so damn hard to see in this new grass, if you see them at all.
Yeah, I kinda hope they will visually update scratchmarks as well. It doesn't fit 100% well on updated maps especially.
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Dead Hard currently doesn't work properly on dedicated servers, because it was originally designed for p2p connections. They've mentioned that in a devstream a couple of weeks ago. Also that they are working on fixing the code. And that's why it's one of the perks that will see changes in the somehow near future.
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The thing is, that their data is probably much more complex then we might think. And more then they talk about directly. Let's take Nurse e.g. We know her low average kill rate, but it's always pointed out, how she is more complex to take her average, because Nurse isn't really beginner friendly. So games can go very bad, if she isn't handled well. That probably even shows in data in some way. My guess it already shows, when you look at the variety of each kill amount.
Just that they probably didn't had the time to show that. Also think back about the joke teabag rate they had. Most likely they have data about chases as well. How much and how long survivor have been chases e.g. until getting hit. In general all data that we know is collected for stuff like Emblems, challenges, achievements etc. might be used.
Actually it's a good question how much data they collect per match, if I think about it....
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If I remember correctly there was a huge part of the community that pointed out the issue rift exclusive cosmetic causes. Mostly how it's causing FOMO and pressure to play the game more than they want. The second part ist kinda still an issue partly.
But especially looking at FOMO it's a much healthier approach.
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Can't believe this was a year ago. But recent changes made me revisit this old thread of mine. Interesting though that my Opinion has slightly changed since then. Even though I still like the idea as it used to be.
First of all about my Ebony Memento Mori Idea:
First. Numbers are too low. I think it should be something like (Keep in mind that Killing with their own hands doesn't give Tokens):
- 5/6 Tokens allow the Killer to kill their first survivor with their own hand
- 7/8 Tokens allow the Killer to kill their second survivor with their own hand (Note: maybe make it less complicated and let the killer kill the rest after reaching a certain Point)
- 8 Tokens allow the Killer to kill All Survivors with their own hand.
Currently in DbD the killer progress per Survivor. Each one can be hooked twice and killed after the third hook. That none linear progress killer have during a trial leads to quite inconsistent games (and some issues). Your first survivor might die either after your third hook, if your hard tunnel e.g. or after the eghth or ninth, when a killer tries to play as "fair" as possible. And we all know as early a survivor dies as less efficient they become at doing gens and progress through the game. So this the timing when the first survivor dies is quite cruical.
Original Moris were messing with that original design, by shortening the progress the Killer makes significantly and were therefore unbalanced.
The idea to make the progression linear and Token based would Shift the Ebony Mori in a way to make it game changing, in some way exciting, but not overpowered.
The Killer benefits from the linear progression by having more control and time planning when the first survivors dies. That lead's to slightly less stress and calmer games. But on the other hand it would be terrible inefficent on a camper, because it takes quite longer to camp their first victim to death (6 Tokens). And a killer who tunnels would probably also be more efficient without this offering, because even if they only play normal until reaching the amount of totems and only tunnel then, they would lose much more time than normally even accounting BT & DS, but also barely benefit from it, because they would get their kill anyway, because it doesn't matter which survivor they down, when reaching the right amount of totems.
Ivory Memento Mori Idea:
This one, I'm not sure. We kinda had good arguments, how it might still incentive Tunneling, if it would only raise the conditions. On the other hand it would mix linear progression approach with the non linear one and that just doesn't work. I can't stand to my original post with this one and kind agree the simple change they did to current moris isn't completely bade, if it wouldn't cost that much bloodpoints.
So I think it should do, what currently the balanced Ebony Mori does now. That way it kinda gives the benefit to circumvent DS, etc without beeing to expensive. But keep it green, because it's just not worth as much as a Map offering that has similar effect on the game, if chosen.
Cypress Memento Mori:
The Unloved one. In it's current form it's a bloodpoint waster and needs to be adressed in some way. The simple thing to do would be to either remove it entirely or give it, what the balanced Ivory does now. But I think that would be kinda boring. Actually one offering with this quite unexciting effect would be enought. We don't need a weaker version of it. I honestly still like the fact, that Cypress might stay an Endgame bet offering. So it works like a stronger form of Rancor, that allows you to kill one survivor, when all gens are powered up or allows to kill all survivors after EGC started. That wouldn't be to strong I think. A bet and an easy way to get "killer with your own hands"
Also Base Kit Mori:
A nice reward would be to make Mori-Animations part of the base kit somehow in a fair way. I personally think the best way would be to reward a killer in general, if they managed to kill three survivor with beeing allowed to kill the fourth with their own hands. But only if they killed the other three. Stuff like catching one after the rest escaped shouldn't count, to still keep it nice and rewarding. But that's more of a nice suggestion.
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"Now Mori's are an offering, offerings are simple they do one thing and one thing only. If Mori's where to stay as an offering than no idea, rework, or added restrictions were likely to be put on it in the first place since it would complicate them. This is not my personal opinion ask yourself if you really think the devs would make a offering have a similar description as a perk wither it be a bunch of restrictions or requirements for it to work. If your with me on that it's easy to see them not doing any kind of changes like that."
But that's the missed opportunity we are speaking of. Especially Killer offerings have the big advantage, that there is always only one. And it has the opportunity to be quite game changing. That's what Moris always did. Even the change didn't completely nullify it.
The big question is, what you want offerings to be. Blood point wasters, blood point boosters or something far more interesting. I had a suggestion for the Ebony Mori as well. And the core idea was that it could change the general progress a killer makes from beeing per survivor towards a complete linear one with a Token system. It might sound complicated. As complicated as a perk, but it would provide an interesting way that should make it keep interesting for both sides. And that was only one example.
In their new form they seem balanced and they slightly might give the killer something. But that benefit comes with downsides as well like a long Mori animation and not benefitting from hook perks, when using a Mori. And most likely, it's not exciting. The cheer to see the killers Animation just wears off e.g.
That's why I dislike that simple change in the way it's done. Especially because it could have been done much earlier. And the fact that the Cypress Mori stays as it is. I truelly hoped/expected the Devs to adress such an unused offering, when adressing Moris in general. And I don't believe that it was the reasonable change. Not a bad one, but it opened it's own can of worms like how it effects Emblems, bloodpoint gain etc. It's not worth it in it current state and it's not what the Devs claimed, when they talked about Moris and Keys beeing changed in a way to keep them fun and interesting. That's not what happened with Moris. Just a simple and strict nerf. Like I said before.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808769#Comment_1808769
While they weren't exactly the same (if they shared to many gameplay traits, it'd probably be called a DbD rip-off) they were still asymmetrical, horror themed, multiplayer games.
I remember when the trailer for Last Year was first shown, it was called the DbD killer by someone in the comments. Clearly, it didn't work out that way.
I fully believe DbD could use some healthy competition, but it's the giant in the genre right now. It probably won't get any, unless the game is very interesting.
I honestly wouldn't call it too giant. It's more of a big fish in a small pond. Funny thing is, if DbD would be more succesfull, we would have gotten more competition actually. It's kinda funny that DbD while beeing big but succesfull is not strong enough to start a Trend in the industry.
That's probably what also puts them in such a comfortable position.
PS: If I remember correctly Last Year was heavily inspired by L4D2's Versus Mode. Kinda funny it wasn't called a rip-off of that one. Probably even the reason, why it didn't work, considering that that mode was designed with a 4vs.4 scenario in mind.
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@NomiNomad said:
There has been competition before. Last Year, Hide or Die. They failed. Things would more or less stay the same unless the game was very, very good. DbD already has a fan base, licenses.
There's more to why DbD has persisted when games like it have not. It's known, people are comfortable with it. That won't change unless BHVR really messes up.
Last Year and Hide or Die have actually complete different core gameplay than DbD. They share setting and the assymetrical approach, but it didn't have a gameplay loop that worked well enought compared to DbD. The actual direct competitors were Identity V and Souls at Stake technically. The first one started too much as a blant copy and was too mobile focused. The second had worse Graphics and was called chinese Copy way too quick, even though they did their own spin of DbDs core gameplay.
Also Souls at Stake and Last Year weren't handled much worse than DbD.
I can remember, that it was back in 2018 I believe, that DbD was called one of the most interesting games by Japanese devs, I think. Or something like that. That gave me hope that we might see an interesting competitor in the future. I still hope somebody takes inspiration and closer look to the game, because DbD kinda found a formula for asymmetrical gameplay that works. Would be a shame, if it would be the only one.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806764#Comment_1806764
There is zero reason to use a key except dor the achievement challenges, and winning a bit earlier.
I belong to the people who consider Moris and Keys as seperate issues. I still kinda hope that when keys adress they might do more than just make it take longer to open the hatch etc. with them. I already saw someone suggesting, that Keys might be used for opening breakable walls e.g.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806742#Comment_1806742
Like my op said. People already said they rarely used it. So nerfing it to a state where its jsut a cool animation shouldnt bother anyone. The fact there are people want moris to be still somewhat strong/useful is mind boggling. And before anyone says. Keys can be useful I dont care flashlights are all I use.
Well people might want a reason to use it, if it get's changed?
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I personally think the change is just boring and makes you wonder why they haven't done it quite a long time ago. Besides that people who didn't like the current state of moris might have hoped that they might change it to something prober balanced and more interesting instead of straight nerfing it to a state were people just care less about it.
It's comparable to the blance landing nerf. The always active shorter stagger effect made some loops too strong and the perk unbalanced. But the straight nerf put the perk back into a state, that makes it barely worth it. Nothing to cheer at or looking forward to for those, who didn't like it in the unbalanced state as well.
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@ipiper34 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806264#Comment_1806264
Can you actually tell where she is looking while charging blink? I've tried to do double backs but I might've missed if she was looking towards me or down at the ground.
Only the direction as far as I know. But like I said her blink time depends on charge time, so when she looks down you should have time to react midblink.
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What also helps, that Nurse has actually a lot of tells. You can see how long she charges her blink, and kinda where she is pointing at. Long blinks are most likely slow enough to judge midblink where she will land. Also if she does a maximum charge blink and looks down, her blink time will take long giving you more time to react.
In general it's important to make sure, to keep her on enough distance to prevent her for making a fast short blink. Those basicly you can't predict and react. Also you can make kinda a use of pallets, because she is stunable during the time she comes out of her blink before her attack and a dropped pallet can still create a safe wall between you and a Nurse in almost hitrange. Of course a good Nurse player will never get stunned, but they have to consider/respect the pallet in some way.
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Not such a good advice. Like @AChaoticKiller and @Parallax said, it can still cause some issues like survivor playing stealthy to deny the Mori, while the killer could just equip BBQ and start hard tunneling as soon as they got 4 stacks.
My personal suggestion would be for Ebony Mori to make it Token based and remove struggle phase entirely and hook sacrifices except in situations where the game has to end (Last survivor). Each time the killer hooks a survivor or a survivor passes a complete hook phase the Mori gains a Token. After X Tokens the killer can mori their first, after Y the second and after Z the remaining two.
That one would give the offering an interesting change, without making it too frustrating. You can even share the information the token has to all survivors as well to keep it as fair as possible. Maybe it would need a little bit of an additional Anti-Tunneling condition, but it would stay quite fair.
Honestly Ivory could go from Green to Purple and give it the ability mori all survivors after second phase. I think the new Ivory is too weak because of it's only one survivor condition. And honestly the current change can still be strong, but makes more sense for a purple offering.
About the unused Yellow offering. Make it kinda base kit, by allow killers in general to mori the last survivor, after they killed the other three. Just as a little reward. And it would quicken match ends even. I personally think two Mori-Offerings are enough and the yellow one could either be deactivated or replaced with another secret offering like e.g. one that spawns an additional Totem. But that would another story.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
mori's don't need an extra effect, i understand that compared to their past version they are way stronger but nerfed mori is still strong.
would you call PH's final judgement weak? No it allows you to kill survivors regardless of DS, flashlights, or body blocks. that is current mori's.
not everything needs to be super strong in fact i support the nerf as something is better than nothing, mori's were just too strong and a lot of other idea's had flaws that were exploitable or not fair per individual.
Besides if the nerf was this severe imagine what will happen to keys, from the mod responses it is very likely that it will now take time to open hatch since they mentioned long animations.
The problem is also how the communicated it. When they talked about changing Moris and Keys during a Q&A they've mentioned that they won't strictly nerf them, but change them in a way to keep them fun and interesting. And based on what we heard about Keys might still get that treatment, while Moris were just nerfed in a way they could've done months ago.
There new state isn't bad for sure. But nothing interesting honestly and barely comparable with PH's final judgement, because the fun to use this character doesn't lie only on that aspect, if we are honest.
Besides that with Moris the devs had always the chance to make/keep the game more interesting in general considering that that one offering can completely change the rules of the game. It only has to do it in a fun and interesting way and not like it used to be and how it is changed now.
Besides that I kinda expected they would take the opportunity to change Cypress Mori as well. An offering that is barely used. But I guess that one keeps to be forgotten as an additional bloodpoint eater and nothing more.
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Camping killers are rare in general, because no matter how effective it can be, it's boring to play like that. But to be fair, Insidous Bubba is rare, but you should run into one from time to time. At least the Meme chest protecting ones.
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@ZenithZX said:
Just make it easier to wake up. That's all he really needs nerf-wise.
The ways to wake up are actually enough. The problem ist, that it's barely worth it, because you fall asleep way to quickly to benefit from it. I mean Freddy is the only killer who can do their daily while beeing afk^^
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Blight wasn't in a good state in the PTB and required some tweaks. But his power always had huge potential. Quite similar compared to Spirit. She also was in a weak state during her PTB and only became strong after some tweaks to her power. But still I remember people saying that she had huge potential.
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Well, I have only issues with the Krampus one. That skin looks more like a guy with a goathead. The weapon dosn't even fit. Should be rod/birch. Very dull and uninspiring and quite far from it's traditional depiction. To be fair, maybe Trapper wasn't a good base to begin with. Would have gone with Blight, Wraith or maybe even hag instead. Those would have fit a Krampus more.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I think they will touch Undying in one of the future Patches. I doubt that they will touch Ruin or Tinkerer, Tinkerer even got buffed recently, so I doubt they will change it again.
But the combination of those 3 Perks is pretty dumb, you dont need to be good to get value out of Ruin, which would have been probably the best thing about Ruin - good Killers will benefit the most. But if Tinkerer triggers and you have a big "Go here!"-sign on a high mobility Killer, you will get free Gen Regression basically.
So, yeah, while Tinkerer is probably the most problematic Perk if you combine those 3 Perks, I guess they will touch Undying.
(I cannot wait for the Forum Response :>)
It's also possible, that they will throw a bunch of anti-totem perk to deal with it. Especially considering that I don't even know how they could nerf/change it. Removing the Aura reading might be nice, but then the perk wouldn't have any scalable value for perk tiers.
Maybe they will limit the amount of time each hex can be transfered. But I'm not sure, if it would weaken Undying a little bit too much for differen Hex-Totem combos. On the other hand, they could really limit the hex transer to only once per hex, but take away the loss of Tokens for transferred Hex-Tokens. That would keep the perk reliable and open it up for more combos. We will see.
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An entire overhall of her AddOns is definitively on their To-Do-List already. Thing is, that their ressources are quite limited and they have to priotize what they do, when and why.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1745192#Comment_1745192
It counts in all scenarios. A good Nurse will not predict you, they will blink to the last place they saw you. Only bad ones look at LoS blockers and go "I think they're HERE!" and blink through with a moronic grin on their face, because that does actually work most of the time, only to find that the survivor did any number of things to bamboozle them.
I am so sick of people calling Nurse a prediction killer. She's not. That opens you up to counterplay. If you blink to where the survivor broke LoS, your second blink will hit them if you can see them. If you can't, you float around a little without wasting it til you find them again. Does it take slightly longer than an amazing prediction? Yes. By maybe 7 seconds, because the survivor cannot leave the tile and will make a noise you can hear moving around the walls. But how much time is lost if the survivor gets in your head?
Or, to put it another way: You've closed in on a survivor. The survivor runs around a wall. You blink to the corner of the wall where they broke LoS. And now you hold all of the power - if they double back, you blink and hit them. If they vault a window or drop a pallet, you blink and hit them. If they keep running, you blink and hit them. What other options do they have? Did I miss something?
Of course the survivor can leave the tile. Scratchmarks might lead her back towards you, but they still have to regain orientation. That gives you enough time and space to gain enough distance to avoid her first blink and start the whole thing from a different tile.
I personally think you still miss that Nurse still has a lot of tells of her ability. You can hear how long she is charging, you can see and react her blink. And keep in mind, that her charge time actually influences her blinking time, not the distance, if she looks down to blink closer. E.g. Assuming a killer doesn't predict and strighlty blinks towards your position, you should avoid moving behind LoS blockers before she starts her first blink. Do it during her blinktime, so she can't blink towards that corner. Of course avoid unnecessary animations that slow you down like a vault or pallet drop. You drop pallets against a good Nurse anyway only after she started her second blink, when you are sure to which side she will blink. And that it's something you can predict at the start of her blink etc.
And all of this is just considering we are facing a 100% perfect blinking god nurse and 100% perfect moving survivor, which is under real condition truely rare. Actuall impossible.
In reality, even on red ranks both side make big mistakes or actually play the prediction play. I'm also sick of argument in favor of the perfect optimal theoretical play which is quite far from reality. Especially when we have much more boring killer in the game. Nurse is the biggest game changer in the game who is actually quite fun to play against, if you accept that chases are different against her.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1743657#Comment_1743657
If you're within range of her first blink, there's nothing to be done except hope she's a bad Nurse and will try to predict your pathing, which opens up the counterplay that everyone insists exists. If she's going for hits at the very edge of her first or second blink, she's taking too many risks.
That only counts in open field scenarios. All killers are designed, that you have no chance to avoid hits on open field. Otherwise you could run her forever. And while Nurse can ignore objects, they still influences the spaces she can blink. Breaking LoS forces Nurse players to either predict or blink to corners to catch you. Pallets are even parly usual against her. I'm not saying that you can stun an experienced Nurse player, but they limit her blinking position as well. In general it's about building distance and use objects against her. A Nurse player who doesn't try to predict your movement and only safely blinks for catching up, will waste their timer trying to catch you at some point.
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@MadLordJack said:
I wish I went against more Nurses that played the prediction game. Maybe I'd understand where everyone comes from with this "Nurse is balanced" stuff. It's like people genuinely forget that she's too fast to react to if she plays well and just reacts to the survivor instead of allowing them to mindgame her.
Omega Blink Nurse was too fast. Current Nurse has enough tells for you to predict her blink to react to depending on distance. Of course her fast close range blinks are still deadly fast, but it's more about trying to avoid such situations.
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Honestly 20 Ranks are already more than enough. I don't think the skill difference between players is that hugh actually. And considering tha the ranking system is more about grind/time investment than skill, I doubt it will have any positive impact on the game.
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Doubt anything will happen. Looks for me like it's considerd "resolved/dealt with" with what they did. And the message with the "No refunds" approach seems quite clear as well. Looks like they consider those affected in such a minority that it's ok to screw them.
Next thing will be some devstreams and a teaser for the next Chapter and people will slightly forget about this mess until the next thing will cause an uproar again.