Firellius
Firellius
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I certainly hope so.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568207#Comment_2568207
How is BT unfun unless you're tunneling/camping?
If you intercept someone going for an unhook, they hook bomb, and the unhooked bodyblocks you, that's pretty unfun. BT's endurance should disable unit collision for its duration.
I don't tunnel, camp or slug, but I've been hit with a BT bodyblock before just because I caught someone trying to go for the unhook.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567559#Comment_2567559
I like using build that boosting in a single aspect (only healing other, all kind of speed, all kind of teammate aura reading ect).
Those are meme to make the game fun to play. Not to be effective.
Have you tried We'll Make It though? Mega-super-ultra-fast healing when you unhook someone!
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567611#Comment_2567611
So wanna talk about need for slow-down perks too? Or tracking perks.
It's not like killers don't have perk tax, in high MMR at least. Difference is that for killers it's X perks of 4 total vs X perks of 16 total.
It's not X perks of 16 total, it's 4X perks of 16 total.
But yeah, the need for slow-down perks is also perk-tax. Killers do have more leniency in that it's not their entire build taken up by perk tax, and they have variety in which perks they can take to fill that role. But it's still not okay to have those perks be borderline mandatory.
But in that regard, tunnelling/camping and 'genrushing' sustain each other. Because without the latter, the former would be unpunishable, and vice versa.
Game needs fixin', y'all.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567598#Comment_2567598
What if they did? What if they also brought 4x medkits and map offering?
Do you really wanna balance game about someone didn't do something important and ignore every other option survivors have?
That's what I call the perk tax, and it's why the survivor meta is so stale. Those perks aren't 'op second chance' crap as people like to whine on these forums: They're required to make the game playable when the killer decrees otherwise.
And it's awful design.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567589#Comment_2567589
If Borrowed, a body block, and DS don't get them to the next tile, you have to admit my hook placement was pretty sick.
What if the rescuer doesn't bring BT, and the tunnelled doesn't bring DS?
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567344#Comment_2567344
To be fair, the only circumstance under which tunneling doesn't take skill is if you are tunneling a bot. Not my fault the survivor is easy to tunnel when they have a whole map of resources.
They don't have the whole map of resources. If you're tunnelling off hook, they only have the hook's immediate vicinity to work with, which is likely where they went down last time, too.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2566983#Comment_2566983
Im a living Boon
But Autodidact is made weaker when paired with heal speed boosters, though!
I run Botany, Desperate Measures, Bite the Bullet and Self-care, myself. Pretty fun being able to speed-heal myself.
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Hookbombers are the worst kind of survivors. Whenever I catch a hookbomber, I fully ignore the unhooked and punish the bomber.
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@C3Tooth said:
Meanwhile I have this build
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IH5SRE5QJ5VQ/image.png
and get tunneled.
Why run Autodidact with -any- healing speed booster?
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565994#Comment_2565994
How... Does it not? I am very interested to hear this one.
Consider the following scenarios!
You do 5/5 totems and the killer has NOED. This removes the speed boost and expose, but you did waste around 2 minutes hunting and cleansing totems.
You do 5/5 totems and the killer does not have NOED. You wasted 2 minutes hunting and cleansing totems, making NOED a free slowdown perk, so you helped NOED in this case.
You do 4/5 totems and the killer has NOED. You get zero reward for your work and NOED fires at full force anyway. All the totems you could find are gone, so NOED is now guaranteed to be in the one totem you couldn't find, which could easily be a godspawn. You wasted around 2 minutes hunting for it AND the killer gets a free down anyway.
You do 0/5 totems and the killer has NOED. You get hit with the full force of NOED. All the totems are still up and any one of them can have hoovered up NOED, including any obvious and exposed totems. You wasted 0 seconds hunting for it and might in fact have an easier time getting rid of it once it fires.
You do 0/5 totems and the killer does not have NOED. Nothing happens.
'Doing bones' creates a lose/lose scenario for the survivors. You either make NOED a strong slowdown perk, or it gets a free down/kill, or it gets both. The first four totems have no negative impact on NOED's functionality.
In all the matches I've played, I've blown up more NOEDs by NOT doing totems and finding it after it fires than by doing totems. The fact that there is zero distinction in NOED's output whether there's four totems gone or zero is what makes doing bones a trash counter, and the very real possibility that you instead push NOED into some out-of-the-way, difficult to find totem adds the risk that you actually make NOED -more- of a problem instead of less.
It's the combination of passive threat and all-or-nothing that makes doing bones awful against NOED. It would, not joking, be a better design if it was baseline rather than optional. Because then at least you know that if you get 5 totems, you break NOED, instead of making it a free fifth perk for the killer.
It'd also be way better design if it just lit up all remaining totems and gave stacking benefits based on the number of totems remaining, so the perk actually loses value with every totem destroyed.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565987#Comment_2565987
U should use your advice and stop this joke. Multiple people explained u Noed is completely fine, while u still act like everyone is dumb and only your opinion matters. Move on.
Multiple people can still be wrong.
As evidenced by how many people still think that doing bones counters NOED.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565818#Comment_2565818
And u have 3 random teammates. It's better to discuss how your team messed it up than force another killer nerf. If we keep nerf everything on killer side because survivor want to make it easier 1v1, killers will run away from u. Is it so hard to keep in mind survivors have multiple second chance perks/items/ hatch and u are not supposed to escape every game?
Noed isn't even close op if i start comparing it with survivors meta perks.
Or!
Or...
You could admit that 'if you get killed by NOED it's your fault' is a really short-sighted thing to say, and the perk is horrendously terribly designed.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565749#Comment_2565749
My opinion is same. Noed killed u - Admit defeat, go next. If u afraid of Noed then try to clean all 5 perks. It's not hard for 4 survivors. Or play around and keep tracking killer perks.
"It's not hard for 4 survivors"
I am not 4 survivors though, I am only one survivor.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565717#Comment_2565717
Then blame your teammates? Logic?
Your current complain is Bs. Instead of blaming bad teamwork and decision making u blame player who has nothing to do with it.
Read more than just the first line.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565635#Comment_2565635
Noed is Ok. Survivors that ignore totems and then complain they were punished for it is not Ok.
To make it simple u ignore side objects and then cry how unfair it is to be punished for it.
This is the bullshit argument.
If I do 4/5 totems, NOED will still kill me.
'it's a team effort!'
And the team has no means of communicating their progress, or which areas have been sweeped. Not to mention the fact that NOED will usually hit harder if totems do get done.
The -only- scenario in which the penta-cleanse actually counters NOED is if the killer actually has it and doesn't manage to apply enough pressure. Otherwise, it's the best slowdown perk in the game and/or a free kill or two.
If people want to make the 'do bones' meme an actual argument, NOED's functionality should be proportional to totems remaining.
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It'd have to be a separate mode altogether. I'd hate to see that offering pop up as survivor, there's so many terrible survivor perks.
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@Trwth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564770#Comment_2564770
I don't think that should be locked behind a perk though. Your skill shouldn't be restricted by a perk if you play better with higher FoV.
I also play better with Surveillance than without, though. Doesn't mean it should be baseline.
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-This- is why the american date notation is stupid.
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@justbecause said:
Is this ever gonna be addressed or will behavior keep acting like they can't read?
So you started first chase right? Survivor in chase has unlimited safe loops and pallets because no one wasted any since they're first to be chased... 3 survivors do 3 gens in that time... How are you supposed to get those 12 hooks or 10 or however it takes to get average 2 kills? Because u could have been hooking other ppl so it could take 10 hooks before 2k but by first chase 3 gens are about to be done what they think killers are? ######### wonder woman?
It's easier to pressure 3 gens than it is to pressure 7. The game naturally shifts a bit more into the killer's control towards the end, so don't get hung up on the first few gens. I once had only 2 hooks by the time the third gen was done, and after the fourth gen, they were unable to get any meaningful progress, since the remaining three gens were in areas with no pallets left, leaving them little room to defend themselves. I was able to lock them down entirely and ultimately got a 4K.
Only the fifth gen is really of consequence, and even that is softened up if you have the build for it.
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@BrotherLove said:
The Best Anti Camping perk is ... Don't be a flashlighting, Tea Bagging Survivor. Its not a rare perk but a lot of survivors use it and its super effective lol.
I've never teabagged and never bring a flashlight, still got my share of facecamps. What now?
OP: There is no anti-camping perk. Best you can do is take anti-tunnelling and just hookbomb and hope it works out in the end. DS is mandatory for that, realistically.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561557#Comment_2561557
I agree but these days obstacles are not to be overcome. They are to be removed because the current generation thinks there should be no hardship.
"Back in my day, we used to scratch tunnels through brick walls with our bare hands until your fingernails eroded away, just for the challenge!"
"All right, grandpa, let's get you to bed"
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@vacaman said:
They like the W meta and want survivors to react the moment they hear the terror radius so they can rotate to m1 another gen.
If they want to do that, they should shorten the TR so survivors know to respond immediately. A bigger TR creates confusion about how close a killer really is. I had one terrifying match against a Doctor on Hawkins who had maxed out his TR, so the entire map was covered by it. It just turned him into a stealth killer since his TR was useless for survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561300#Comment_2561300
y'all really defending iron will huh.
Y'all really making a stink over Iron Will, huh?
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@[Deleted User] said:
iron will. it should have an activation requirement
How about only being able to use it if you're one hit away from being downed?
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@Tr1nity said:
perk idea:
Hex: Win
- You win
- "Dang, he won"
Boon: Win
- You win
- "Dang, he won"
But what needs a rework?
Sole Survivor
Cruel Limits
Buckle Up
Monstrous Shrine
Boil Over
Wake Up
Fire Up
Slippery Meat
Mettle of Man
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt
Object of Obsession
Counterforce
This is not Happening
Hex: Huntress Lullaby
Poised
Hex: Devour Hope
Fixated
Dying Light
Babysitter
Red Herring
We're gonna live forever
Mad Grit
Iron Grasp
Sloppy Butcher
Hex: No one Escapes Death
Hex: Crowd Control
And, to quote TheGannMann, Many others
There's a lot here that I agree with, but why Devour Hope and Fixated?
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Possibly, since I've seen some apprehension about triple blink, so that add-on buff might get revoked.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559880#Comment_2559880
There's nothing to argue about. Op states nonsense. If u are bad player, NOED won't help climb high mmr since better survivor will outplay u anyway, unless u face camp with NOED, but it's only 1 kill and not enough to climb. If u are good then there's nothing to talk about.
Apparently that's not always true, since the MMR increase and decrease are based on the survivor's MMR compared to yours. So if you're up against a team above your MMR, you lose fewer points for the escapes (Since the survivors are higher) but you get bonus points for the one kill.
Either way, you're still shunting your MMR upwards by merit of only that perk, since the game doesn't consider how many hooks you've gotten, or anything else in the trial apart from who you killed.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559838#Comment_2559838
Then blame your teammates and not Noed or killer. And if u truly clean all 4 totems every single game i doubt u will face NOED more than 1/10 scenarios. But who cares killer is always guilty.
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559838#Comment_2559838
If one person did 4 totems, and 3 other people couldn't do 1 more totem. That's the fault of the group as a whole
Or quite simply run small game. Take note of where they are. Cleanse if NOES exists at end game. That's what I do. Doing 5 totems isn't neccesary
Not the point, both of you.
Broken said that if someone dies to NOED, it's their own fault. Now they're shifting it onto 'it's the team's fault', but that still doesn't address what I said initially: 'Doing bones' is not the counter to NOED. Doing bones is more likely to make NOED stronger, rather than weaker.
That is also why I'm picking a fight with NOED and not my teammates: NOED's design is godawful. If it's meant to make survivors do totems, it's currently doing the exact opposite. I run DetHunch, and I'm more likely to get killed by NOED if I cleanse the totems I find.
Although I think we should drop this and move to a different thread if you guys want to continue arguing, because all of this is not what this topic is supposed to be about.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559740#Comment_2559740
Both. That survivor and the other survivors in the group. It's a team effort.
So if someone manages 4 totems and then gets killed by NOED, that's their own fault, according to you?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559711#Comment_2559711
Yes. Totally the fault of the survivors for not doing the totems before rushing through all the gens. That's an EZ answer
'The survivors' or 'that survivor'?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559688#Comment_2559688
I read just fine, and my comment is 100 % related to yours. "Omg NOED. Get skill ! No effort !"
When the reality is people are trying. The reality is people are skilled. The reality is DBD is one sided. The reality is it's your fault if you got NOED. If 4 people are still alive at the end and you rushed through gens without doing bones. Who's fault is that exactly ? Yours
Last two times I got hit with NOED, I'd done two and four totems. Totes my fault, right?
'Do bones' is a meme, but it's not the actual counter to NOED.
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Facecamping producing faster games, demanding genrushing.
Tunnelling producing faster games, demanding genrushing.
Solo/Swiffer divide.
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How usable would this even be?
What's the file size like for this one map? 2 GB, perhaps? Multiplied by the amount of maps in the game, DBD could easily take up more space than your OS.
Then there's the matter of how well this runs in gameplay with active rendering. What does this do to load times? Minimum specs required to play?
Playability > Graphics. If it didn't, Crysis would've had an impact.
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@Legionair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556542#Comment_2556542
all I can say is killers mostly camp and tunnel in RESPONSE to how quick survs do gens, if a killer is camping and tunneling straight away its because they have been vs genrushers every game and need to raise their mmr again so things go both ways but keep in mind if genspeeds werent as they were killers wouldnt have to do this in order to win. it STARTS with the survivors side being overpowered or too easy, killers just adapt to it.
Survivors have to do gens this fast. Sure, I can mess around, open chests, hunt some totems, but if the killer turns out to tunnel, camp and slug right off the bat, it's kinda too late to start genrushing.
As long as tunnelling and camping are legitimate options for killers to exploit, there's no reason to nerf survivors. Sure, they wouldn't -have- to resort to those tactics to win, but I'm not going to support the motion to make the game's playability hinge purely on a killer's purity of intent.
That's like a stand-off where one guy says 'You should drop your weapon, then I'll definitely lower mine. I will hold onto it though, just in case.'
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@MarcoPoloYolo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558017#Comment_2558017
This is disingenuous. The killer can "bypass" the hook states by simply hooking all 4 survivors in rapid succession if no successful saves are made. The only difference is that, if handed the opportunity to do this (which only exists if the survivors collectively throw), slugging enables the killer to act in a more time-efficient manner, which is simply stronger and smarter, which is why survivors hate it. Functionally, there is no option you have on the hook that doesn't exist with slugging. If you're on the hook, you're immobilized until a survivor rescues you, or you could throw the match and try to go for a kobe. This exists even in a 4-man slug, since the killer can only hook 1 at a time. You technically have more mobility on the ground than on a hook, and can be rescued in, at most, the same amount of time as an unhook (unless a survivor is hiding around you for some godforsaken reason). You can also go under a pallet in the hopes that a survivor can get a pallet save, which is a stronger rescue than an unhook.
Slugging leaves survivors with more options in exchange for allowing himself to have more efficient gameplay if the opportunity is handed to him.
Functionally, there is no option you have on the hook that doesn't exist with slugging.
Yes, there is.
A very important one.
**You can hook suicide**. Sure, it won't net you the win, but at least you're out of the game and in queue for the next, as opposed to spending up to 4 (four) minutes waiting for the killer to end the match.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558046#Comment_2558046
Every suggestion you have is awful. ANY competent Survivor team will slams gens if you camp, this is a non issue. It may not be fun but it is NEVER a good play, until end game in which it's basically all the Killer can do. As for Tunneling and Slugging, I can't even imagine how you'd remove these. It'd require an entire game rework which is not ever happening, so I say just nerf the crutch second chance perks and be done with it.
You should check the thread that popped up a short while ago where a couple of players were sharing facecamp strats to guarantee 2K+.
And what kind of reasoning is that? "We can't fix this bit, so let's just break everything else instead!"
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2558017#Comment_2558017
"You're supposed to hunt and down a survivor three times" And there it is, the problem. Play a game of non top tier Killer at the absolute highest MMR - I would LOVE to see you try this. It's not feasible, and it's not balanced. Slugging and tunneling exist because playing "fair and nice" gets the Killer 4 teabags at exit gate and Survivors telling them they suck and hope the Killers family gets cancer.
You've got the problem backwards. Camping, tunnelling and slugging can close a match out so effectively that the gens need to be incredibly fast and these perks are necessary. If camping wasn't a thing and tunnelling wasn't the de facto best way to go, survivors would be eligible for a good quantity of nerfs.
But as long as the killer shortcuts balance out with the survivors, nothing changes. It's not exactly fair to let the killers keep their overpowered tactics but strip the survivors of their defences against them.
And don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of some survivor nerfs, but only on the condition that camping, tunnelling and slugging are pulled out by the root. Not keen on nerfing survivors down and then just hoping that killers don't abuse it out of the kindness of their hearts.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557464#Comment_2557464
Nothing is scummy about slugging. It's a legit strategy, do not sit here and try and LIE to me that being hooked is even remotely more fun than being slugged. Pure BS.
A 4K slug intentionally bypasses the multiple hookstates that survivors have. And for the person who got slugged first, it's just several minutes of waiting for the killer to end the match, while you're unable to participate, but also not allowed to leave. And you can't even spectate, either.
And that last part is in contrast with hooks. If you're on the hook, you still have some options, provided you're not getting facecamped.
I also think that 'bypassing survivor hookstates' is the big issue people have with DS/BT/UB. You're supposed to hunt and down a survivor three times, but sometimes it feels like people are allergic to that concept here, with how upset they get over 'second chance' perks.
I just fail to see the problem with second chance perks when the game is designed to give survivors three chances.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557758#Comment_2557758
Not sure how to break up quotes like that, but going point by point:
- Otz recently did a 'ranking all perks' video. It was quite an eye opener, especially factoring in the upcoming changes/buffs to survivor perks. And no, no there isn't.
- I'd say No Mither is far better than Distressing. At least it has some sort of gameplay benefits. All Distressing does is nerf you for a paltry BP gain.
- Very seldom do killers get meaningful buffs (the last one I can think of was Wraith, and he's being nerfed now, despite being mid-tier at best). Again, look at Clown and Trapper.
- Yes, CI is frustratingly compulsory on certain killers, far more so than any perk is required on survivors. That's...sort of my point. And even then, you can get RNGed on some maps (saw a game recently where a top ranked killer...some British guy? lost 2 gens in under a minute, despite CI. Hawkins, if I recall.
- No, it's not a blunt 16v4 comparison, and that's not what I'm saying. I will say though that, when you factor in SWFs, it can very much play out like that. Which is why OoO was such a problem for so long. At the very least, it gives you way more wiggle room to bring different perks, or cover multiple bases (you only really need 1 small game, and one spine chill if you are sharing info).
- Shrug. They said they had something that they would be introducing to stop facecamping, so it's not really a concern. Slugging is, in and of itself, required to counter other perks/strategies and can easily backfire due to 'pick up deadzones' (between certain doodads on the farm maps for example, or under certain hooks). There's nothing wrong with slugging, and the best counter to it will always be teamwork.
- There is no 'large assortment' of gen regression perks. There's Ruin, Pop, Surge (on some killers) and then mostly pointless options like Overcharge. TT isn't a regression perk and Eruption is awful.
- Most of the complaints about the stale survivor meta are coming from killers, as it forces a very tedious meta from killers too.
I'd say No Mither is far better than Distressing. At least it has some sort of gameplay benefits. All Distressing does is nerf you for a paltry BP gain.
An increased terror radius is not a nerf. I once played on a Hawkins against a Doctor with a maxed out terrror radius, it effectively disabled the mechanism because you were -always- in his terror radius, so you had no early warning if he was coming for you.
If survivors bolt at the first sign of a terror radius, then a larger terror radius makes them waste more time. A larger terror radius is more difficult to read, making them less likely to accurately predict your movement. A larger terror radius makes survivors recalculate when they should try and hide.
And there's killer perks that synergise with it, too. Unnerving Presence, Coulrophobia, and more importantly, Infectious Fright and Starstruck.
Yes, you could argue that No Mither can be used with Resilience and This Is Not Happening, but that's nowhere near enough compensation for the fact that you are permanently exposed. Especially against, for example, stealth killers. And it's certainly a worse combo than Distressing - Infectious Fright.
Very seldom do killers get meaningful buffs (the last one I can think of was Wraith, and he's being nerfed now, despite being mid-tier at best). Again, look at Clown and Trapper.
We very rarely get balance-focused patches in general, but saying that killers seldom get buffs is meaningless without context.
Yes, CI is frustratingly compulsory on certain killers, far more so than any perk is required on survivors. That's...sort of my point. And even then, you can get RNGed on some maps (saw a game recently where a top ranked killer...some British guy? lost 2 gens in under a minute, despite CI. Hawkins, if I recall.
CI isn't the most compulsory perk in the game, as it didn't rank top 3 for killer perks. It was bested by NOED, Ruin and BBQ & Chili, so clearly, CI is not a top pick for killers. It's certainly a popular one, but it has plenty of competition, which is exactly the point.
No, it's not a blunt 16v4 comparison, and that's not what I'm saying. I will say though that, when you factor in SWFs, it can very much play out like that. Which is why OoO was such a problem for so long. At the very least, it gives you way more wiggle room to bring different perks, or cover multiple bases (you only really need 1 small game, and one spine chill if you are sharing info).
That's the solo/swiffer divide, and it's a major problem. But that doesn't get fixed by balancing for Swiffers, because then solos can practically not play the game anymore.
They said they had something that they would be introducing to stop facecamping, so it's not really a concern. Slugging is, in and of itself, required to counter other perks/strategies and can easily backfire due to 'pick up deadzones' (between certain doodads on the farm maps for example, or under certain hooks). There's nothing wrong with slugging, and the best counter to it will always be teamwork.
Yes, they were testing something, and it was in a very early prototype. It's not likely that it'll reach full release, and just because something is potentially being worked on doesn't mean it's not a concern. Facecamping is the biggest problem this game faces, as it hinders further development in other areas. Genrushing cannot be addressed as long as facecamping is an option, since any nerf to the former is an indirect buff to the latter. And you don't want to encourage killers to facecamp.
The best counter to slugging is the opposite of teamwork. People sticking together is what makes slugging possible, the team is supposed to split up, not work together. And while slugging is the least of the unholy trinity of game-breakers, it's still atrocious for gameplay.
Also... 'pick up deadzones'? The only one I can think of is the preschool basement. Everywhere else, there's at least three hooks in range, even with hook distance offerings.
There is no 'large assortment' of gen regression perks. There's Ruin, Pop, Surge (on some killers) and then mostly pointless options like Overcharge. TT isn't a regression perk and Eruption is awful.
I didn't say 'gen regression'. I said gen slowdown. You don't need to regress gens, you need to slow them down. Locking gens up is another form of gen slowdown, and that's what Thrilling Tremors is for, or Deadlock, or Corrupt Intervention.
Most of the complaints about the stale survivor meta are coming from killers, as it forces a very tedious meta from killers too.
They are. Doesn't change anything. Survivor meta's more stale than killer meta.
(The way I break up quotes is with the .> symbol.)
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557625#Comment_2557625
Eh. Except that 'just bring x perk' isn't really a survivor issue, because:
- Survivors have far more options between universally 'good' perks than killers do (killers actually have several perks that are flat-out worse than an empty slot, or are so niche that neither you nor the survivors are likely to even be aware that it's active. See: Distressing, Predator, about 2/3 of hexes). Plus, most of the genuinely 'bad' survivor perks are getting buffed shortly, while almost none of the bad killer perks are.
- Killers see pretty constant nerfs to addons as things stand, some of them honestly baffling (Ghostface is the most recent example).
- There is no killer perk that can stop a 2-3 gen pop within the first 2 minutes of a game, if the enemy are all running good toolboxes and you aren't extremely lucky early. On the other hand, there is a survivor perk to counter nearly every killer perk - and you have 12 perks to play with in a team, while killers are stuck at 4.
- About half of these perks are to counter a specific killer playstyle (ie. facecamping/tunnelling/slugging) and BHVR have already said that they will be taking specific steps to prevent facecamping in the near future.
Survivors have far more options between universally 'good' perks than killers do (killers actually have several perks that are flat-out worse than an empty slot, or are so niche that neither you nor the survivors are likely to even be aware that it's active. See: Distressing, Predator, about 2/3 of hexes). Plus, most of the genuinely 'bad' survivor perks are getting buffed shortly, while almost none of the bad killer perks are.
I doubt that. Killers have far more build variety, and I think the average killer perk is a safer pick than the average survivor perk. There's a ton of far more niche survivor perks and some that have completely negligible benefits. And in terms of 'empty slots are better', survivors have the absolute king of kill-me-now perks: No Mither. And Autodidact doesn't exactly help the survivors, either.
And there's an equal number of killer perk buffs as survivor perk buffs, IIRC.
Killers see pretty constant nerfs to addons as things stand, some of them honestly baffling (Ghostface is the most recent example).
Killers see a ton of balance changes in general, including buffs. They've just got way more variables to tinker with than survivors do. Keep in mind that these add-ons are generally more impactful than survivor item add-ons, even at the highest tier.
There is no killer perk that can stop a 2-3 gen pop within the first 2 minutes of a game, if the enemy are all running good toolboxes and you aren't extremely lucky early. On the other hand, there is a survivor perk to counter nearly every killer perk - and you have 12 perks to play with in a team, while killers are stuck at 4.
Corrupt Intervention is a meta perk precisely because it can stop a 2-3 gen pop in the first 2 minutes of the game. And yeah, fully kitted out survivors are stronger than survivors without kits. Same with killers that slap on high end add-ons. Fanged Pinhead is leagues above normal Pinhead for example.
Yes, the survivors have more perks, but those perks only affect themselves in most cases, while the killer's impact all survivors. It's not a blunt numerical comparison of '16 vs 4'.
About half of these perks are to counter a specific killer playstyle (ie. facecamping/tunnelling/slugging) and BHVR have already said that they will be taking specific steps to prevent facecamping in the near future.
Yes. And then DS still has to stay to counter tunnelling and UB has to stay for slugging. And we don't even know if they'll figure something out, so until facecamping is solved, BT is staying as well. And until NOED gets a rework, DetHunch/Small Game is practically mandatory too. The Spirit changes might ease off the requirement of Iron Will, but there's no guarantee.
Point is that if a survivor wants to be able to play when the killer decided otherwise, they need that bunch of perks with no exception. The closest you can argue for the killer side is that gen slowdown perks are mandatory, but even then there's a large assortment of options available for the killer to choose from. Far more so than the four survivor perks. Pop, Ruin, Corrupt Intervention, Thrilling Tremors, Eruption, Surge, they're all decent picks for slowdown and you can mix-and-match as much as you like. And generally, people will take one or two slow-down perks leaving the other two slots open for anything the killer wants.
There's more complaints about a stale survivor meta than killer meta for a reason.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557612#Comment_2557612
No, I see what he is saying. 'Use x killer' to counter specific addons doesn't work, because we can't change killers at the match selection screen. 'Use x perk' doesn't work, because smart survivors time their switch to addons so that you can't change perks in time.
At the very least, survivors shouldn't be able to change addons at the last second. If you change addons, it should automatically 'unready' the killer and allow them to alter their perks.
I will never argue against locking survivor loadouts earlier so the killer can set theirs accordingly, but 'just bring [perk]' is more of a survivor problem than a killer one, between DS, BT, UB, IW and DetHunch/SG.
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Flat-out having two pure M1 killers would be too strong, but I do like the idea of a killer whose power is some kind of utility support that can provide pressure, scouting or in-loop assistance.
Like a poltergeist being able to throw a pallet, or scream to incapacitate survivors so they can't work on gens for a while.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557231#Comment_2557231
Medkits are base survivor items. They supposed to have some base gameplay counter without perks. You can't switch killer and if you have no certain perks in your loadout you're screwed. And even if you have one that's barely a counter
Medkits aren't base survivor items, they need to be bought or found and are destroyed upon death.
Survivors don't spawn in with a medkit by default.
@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557209#Comment_2557209
What about real counters? You can not call perks and certain killers counters to an item. How should you play to counter medkits?
Let's say you're wraith or twins and you rely much on splitting the damage and you don't have certain perks against 4man squad with medkits. Your actions?
And this is really unfair. Asking 'how do I counter X when I intentionally do the opposite of the counter?' is like asking 'how do I counter DS while hard-line tunnelling' or 'how do I counter BBQ & Chili when I'm doing a never-enter-a-locker challenge?'.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556206#Comment_2556206
No point.... The same "but if you do X then Y will be stronger arguments circulated during the removal of infinites and attempted removal of 3 gen time waste loops.
Fix the cause and then fix the "problem" after.. if there even is one.
Yes, fix the cause, then fix the problem after.
So you're in favour of anti-camping and anti-tunnelling measures, after which gens can be slowed down. Good.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556082#Comment_2556082
I know that but let's look at the facts you have 4 survivors who can light Boons.....the likelyhood that your Hex can move is very slim especially with how easy it is to find totems....besides that doesn't negate the facts with the new Boons I stated above....
That still doesn't change the way Hexes work though, all that's changed is that survivors are more likely to hunt totems before they realise there's a hex. And that's provided boon totems even see any usage.
And if you're still hung up about the .46 second heal: Doesn't that require multiple boons overlapping (Which is getting removed), BK, maxed out DM, We'll Make It, and a fully built medkit?
Because if a survivor is investing that many resources into the eventuality that the killer distributes their hits among all four survivors and then lets them gather up in the middle of three totems, shortly after an unhook, I think it's pretty fair that they get dummy heal speeds.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556077#Comment_2556077
Camping and tunnelling is also a product of game balance. If you don't feel you can catch survivors then you are more likely to use them as bait and draw survivors to you.
Watch any killer streamer, even the ones that play both sides. you will see them turn to camping multiple times in a stream session. They may not snug up next to the survivor, but whey will hang close to the hook.
The map layout and loop safety needs changing.
Any kind of nerfs to survivors will be a buff to tunnelling and camping, they're just flat-out the most effective strategies and until that's changed, survivors can't suffer any nerfs. You reduce loop safety, first down is just shifted forward in the match, and camping becomes more effective. Tunnelling too.
@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556099#Comment_2556099
Ruin didn't, but undying, the perk that kept it relevant did.
Ages before the release of Deadlock. Ruin/Undying is still a relatively popular pick.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556079#Comment_2556079
They side grade survivor perks, making sure they still do the same thing but slightly less tedious to the killer, but still just as game changing and strong. The only killer like nerf they ever got was mettle of man.
Killer perks/killers get shut down completely and often drop from use entirely. Undying is still meta out of desperation since killers don't have much else. It will slowly die out as killers drop hex totems for the corrupt - Deadlock combo, since hexes only last 1 minute max and the new boon perk will make that worse.
I don't bother with ruin any more.
DS didn't get a side-grade, it got straight up nerfed. Quite harshly, too, though it absolutely deserved it.
And you may not bother with Ruin, but most killers still do. It's still a meta perk, so it didn't get 'shut down completely'. You can point to Deadlock supplanting it as a meta perk, but that's just a meta shift since Ruin didn't get nerfed.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
No. Infinite number of buffed totems is just broken.
The only way I could see it more fair is that when Killer disable that totem buff, there should be a LONG cooldown before you could use it again. For example at least 120 seconds. I think 180 would be more reasonable.
That would make the perk completely useless. That kind of downtime would require the perks' effect to be buffed to where the survivor goes straight up invisible under Shadow Step, or gets their heal time reduced to 2 seconds under Circle of Healing.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
And allowing survivors to relight their Boons isn't OP......yes Killers should be allowed to relight their Hexs now because Hex Undying is useless with how Boons work. The Devs either didn't think too clearly on how they can be OP.
Boons change literally nothing about how Hexes work.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555455#Comment_2555455
You don't break the old meta by bringing in equally or more busted perks. You gut the strong ones so people begin to use something else.
They have zero issues doing this for killer perks, but cower in a corner when survivor perks are mentioned and it is sad.
The issue is that the majority of the meta perks (DS, BT, UB) aren't strong, they just counter the killer meta.
You can nerf them down, but that'll just make killers camp, slug and tunnel more. I think the only way these perks will be dropped without the game becoming unplayable at the killer's whim is if they were integrated in the baseline somehow.