Firellius
Firellius
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@radiantHero23 said:
I'm always : fun > winning
Sadly with the way this game has changed over the past years, it has also gotten a lot more competetive.
With that, people focused solely on winning, resulting in optimization wherever possible.
I don't know if this can be fixed somehow without completely redesigning the objective for both sides.
Best thing right now would he to change the mindset of the playerbase but that's almost as impossible as getting 50 wins in comp with Freddy.
What might help is bringing back alternative 'win' conditions, IE: the BP bonuses of WGLF and BBQ. Those allowed survivors to 'win' in a 4k, and killers to 'win' in a 4E.
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@Femtrapta said:
It feels like everytime someone mentions gen repair speeds (base time, speed-ups, slowdowns) its always met with "Well it's our objective to do them and get out they shouldn't take forever"
I just want games to last longer than 7 minutes so we can have some good chases. Even as a survivor who LIKES doing gens I at least want one or two chases with the killer, even if I go down in 30 seconds. Chases are what makes the game fun, games should take even a tiny bit longer so we can have more of them in a match
The longer a match goes on, the greater the chance that it ends in a 3K+. The issue isn't making games take longer, the issue is making games take longer without royally breaking the game's balance. Killers are already currently overperforming, so just making gens take longer would shove the balance further out of line.
Killers will have to take pretty invasive nerfs if we want gens to take that much longer. And, as already mentioned: Tunnelling and in particular Camping set limits to how long survivors can be made to take on gens.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731994#Comment_3731994
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YUCXJDCPFFA0/screenshot-2024-06-02-233830.png
Actually, seems like the gen nerfs; on top of other nerfs, did just fine.
Survivors, that we know of, haven't ever escaped less. The average Survivor is escaping less than half their matches. Even the High MMR Survivor is escaping less than half their matches, albeit by a lesser margin.
I cannot begin to fathom how some people believe the game is more Survivor-sided than it was four or more years ago. To be honest, to me, it sounds like a lack of adaptation. It sucks when you can't play the game the way you used to, but ultimately, you either have to accept that limitation or get with the times.
I cannot begin to fathom how some people believe the game is
moreSurvivor-sided than it was four or more years ago. To be honest, to me, it sounds like a lack of adaptation.It seems to me that certain killer buffs have just produced more dependent killers. I also noticed this with discussions around Distortion, with some killers claiming they can't find anyone because their aura reading gets blocked.
But how would they have found people before the excessive intel power-creep? Nowhere to Hide, Darkness Revealed, Ultimate Weapon, all of them made it so easy to find survivors that it feels like some killers just forgot how to play without them.
@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732061#Comment_3732061
Funny you mention Pop and Pain Res: They are getting nerfed today.
And they are everywhere because they are just about the only viable regression perks left after survivors complaining got all the others nerfed.
Meanwhile, survivors are slamming generators faster than ever with no nerfs to their ability to gen rush.
And they are everywhere because they are just about the only viable regression perks left after survivors complaining got all the others nerfed.
Firstly, there's a couple of other regression perks still in the game that are perfectly viable. They're not as overtuned as Pain Res/Pop, but they're still strong picks. Eruption and Surge in particular spring to mind.
But on top of that, those are two perks in one particular category. Where's the other categories? Where's Gift of Pain, or Corrupt Intervention, or Coup de Grace, or Remember Me, or No Way Out, or Devour Hope, or…
There's so much more to killer perks than just stacking a ton of regression. It's not like with survivor perks, where a bunch of them give almost cosmetic-tier effects for huge investments, with the vast majority of perks just being flat neutral, or even negative. Killers have good perks. None of them get used though, because Pop/Pain Res are overtuned and get smacked on everything.
When Survivors had a standard BT/DS/UB/DH, they got smacked upside the head with a meta reset, maybe it's time for killers to get theirs.
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@Nazzzak said:
I'd consider gen rushers to be people who come equipped with full gen progression builds and toolboxes. If their intent is literally to smash out gens as fast as possible, then they're a gen rusher. I rarely see these folks though. I agree that it's just another strategy.
That's the definition I go by, too. You need something that actually allows you to speed up gens, otherwise it's just bog-standard 'doing gens'.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Nothing really to say, I have some opinions, and I feel like Lighting Round-ing them, so here we go
- Nurse is the closest thing to a fully legit cheat-engine you can have in DBD
- The STBFL nerf was completely pointless
- Anon mode was a mistake and serves no purpose that privating your profile and setting your messages to friends only didn't already serve
- A Monster Hunter chapter would be awesome
- All previous modifiers should be available in custom games
- Lerys and Hawkins are good and well designed maps that provide unique ways of playing survivor instead of just mindlessly looping the same 3 structures on every map
- GOJ and Disturbed Ward are terribly designed and should be reworked to be not have all of the safety on the map be in exactly one spot
- Skull Merchant isn't badly designed, y'all just suck at countering her
- Blackwater Swamp should be burnt to the ground
- We need more killers that break the humanoid template, gimme more monsters and 4-legged creatures, not more humans or human-adjacent killers
- Trickster should have a DIO skin
- There is quite literally zero incentive in actually winning a match of DBD, the fake SBMM that is actually a slot machine in disguise just managed to gaslight y'all into tryharding and making yourselves miserable
- Most of the skyboxes and invisible walls just need to go away, there is zero reason I shouldn't be allowed to launch myself off the GOJ or Thompson House main buildings with Shred
- Bring back Spacebilly (A cold one, I know, but still, thought I'd mention it)
- Wesker should be able to launch himself off of high places like Demo can, maybe then I'd actually feel something playing him
- Raccoon City or the Mansion from RE1 would have been much better maps then RCPD
- TTVs are not nearly as toxic or showboaty as some of you think, and even if they are, who gives a #########, nobody forces you to engage with them once the match is over
- Maining a killer or maining a perk build is really silly, since you are limiting how many different ways you can play DBD
- A Mimic killer would fit into DBD perfectly if they're given more tools besides just mimicking survivors (Another cold one, but I'm mentioning it anyway)
- Rapid Brutality is a good perk on a lot of killers, mainly Singularity and Clown
- A Warhammer Fantasy chapter would be better then a Warhammer 40k chapter, I am completely biased, Skaven forever, yes-yes
And finally
22. Weaving Spiders is a good perk, even before the buff its getting in the DnD patch
G'night
22. Weaving Spiders is a good perk, even before the buff its getting in the DnD patch
You're gonna have to elaborate on how you wanna portray a perk that gives you 30 seconds' worth of work out of 120 seconds of input, on top of inflicting perma-broken, as a 'good perk'.
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Doesn't Bardic Inspiration affect multiple survivors at a time? You could grant the buff to two other survivors, theoretically, to make hitting the skillcheck count more likely.
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I mean, blank 2v8 is going to be a total disaster, some adjustments have to be made to make it worth playing.
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@Azulra said:
"Deadlock is quite effective while being rather easy to activate. We have slightly reduced the duration of the generator blocker to bring it in line with other options."
This is completely false because the average duration time that generator block perks are 30-40 seconds and they're making Deadlock 25 seconds when you have DMS with up to 30 seconds, Undone with up to like 30 seconds, Grim Embrace up to 40 seconds, Corrupt Intervention up to 90 seconds, etc. This means that 25 seconds is NOT "in line with other options" by getting nerfed.
While, yes, it is easy to activate then you have to try explaining that with all of the other options with the fact that they're all EQUALLY as easy to activate with DMS requiring you to just simply hook a survivor on any hook to activate, Undone requiring you to just simply kick a gen(very hard to activate BHVR, very hard), Grim Embrace just simply requiring the SAME THING as DMS just with the extra step of leaving the hook to activate fully, and Corrupt Intervention just requiring the killer to spawn in(again, VERY hard to do BHVR).
Just undo this nerf because your reasoning is COMPLETELY false for justifying this nerf and hardly anyone complains about Deadlock meaning that you essentially nerfed it just because you felt like it.
While, yes, it is easy to activate then you have to try explaining that with all of the other options with the fact that they're all EQUALLY as easy to activate with DMS requiring you to just simply hook a survivor on any hook to activate, Undone requiring you to just simply kick a gen(very hard to activate BHVR, very hard), Grim Embrace just simply requiring the SAME THING as DMS just with the extra step of leaving the hook to activate fully, and Corrupt Intervention just requiring the killer to spawn in(again, VERY hard to do BHVR).
DMS requires you to get a hook, AND push survivors off gens. DMS does nothing with just a hook. So DMS has two additional things the killer has to do in order to activate it.
Undone requires you to kick a gen, and requires survivors to miss skill-checks, which you will likely have to orchestrate yourself, too, since most survivors consistently hit checks. That's two additional requirements.
Grim Embrace requires a hook, that's one extra requirement. However, Grim also lasts half as long. It also requires you to hook a different survivor if you want any activations beyond the first.
Corrupt Intervention is the only one that comes close to Deadlock.
So yeah, Deadlock getting nerfed does bring it in line with other options, since the other options have considerably higher requirements.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715442#Comment_3715442
Ah ok, it sounded to me that you wanted to not have good gen regression and also not have the unfun strats so that's where my position came from. I agree that having both at once is probably a bit much. That depends on what we consider "good" regression.
But they're also nerfing Grim Embrace and Pain Res, both of which encourage not tunneling and camping. So if anything I think we're going backwards on encouraging spreading the pressure. Both of these things were/are weaker than just tunneling someone out early, so of course they weren't "enough", they weren't even equal. Especially when you can tunnel and still use Pop at full power since it doesn't care.
Tbf I don't think you can really win with the community. If the killers camp and tunnel it's "unfun". Making gens take longer, regression or otherwise, is "boring". Having super fast chase times to match gen speeds is also disliked. Top 3 killers that can compete without those strats are disliked.
It seems like no matter what the players are unhappy if the killers are able to keep up. There's no tradeoff they'll take 🤷♂️
It all feels very "have you cake and eat it too".But they're also nerfing Grim Embrace and Pain Res, both of which encourage not tunneling and camping. So if anything I think we're going backwards on encouraging spreading the pressure.
Both of these perks do, unfortunately, also still work fine with camping/tunnelling though. If anything, I'd like to see them more specifically tailored to these issues, maybe having them scale up with every unique hook, to make the first weaker, but each subsequent more rewarding. Although I'm still not sure that'd work overall.
It's so frustrating that they reverted the wrong half of the Ruin nerf. 200% regression was adequately strong for a hex, and having it automatically destroy itself upon a survivor getting killed was the perfect way to sever its link to tunnelling. But instead BHVR decided to keep it both too weak, and compatible with tunnelling. Baffling choice.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716444#Comment_3716444
It does look quite good. Probably not for the average player who doesn't know how to loop and the broken is more punishing. However for any decent survivor, especially if they're a swf, this looks good.
It isn't just a math of time spent doing it vs gen progress since it's progress that can't be regressed and it's something that could be sniped early on before the killer has even started a chase so less valuable time lost early on. Now much worse later in the game. You would have to do it at the start.
I could see some argument to what degree of good it is, just okayish or great, but I think for anyone to call it as much as "bad" would just be wrong.
You absolutely will see this ran a decent amount on swf groups. That tells us there's at least something there.
Probably not for the average player who doesn't know how to loop and the broken is more punishing.
I'd say it's actually more punishing for the more advanced players as it disables them from making more aggressive plays. You can't bodyblock, you're at much greater risk with saves, and you can't help in a contested unhook.
and it's something that could be sniped early on before the killer has even started a chase
At 60 seconds? No. Unless you're dumping a bunch of extra perk slots on it, which would make the trade-off significantly worse. And this is also assuming that the killer doesn't find you and interrupt you which very quickly undoes all your work, gives them a free hit, and puts you right next to the basement. Also, if your teammate is doing this, and the basement is in the killer shack, that means you can't use the killer shack loop if you get chased, either, denying you a very powerful resource.
You absolutely will see this ran a decent amount on swf groups. That tells us there's at least something there.
But it's your presumption that we will see this on swiffer groups. That tells us nothing.
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@Blueberry said:
At worst Weaving Spiders looks good now. At best it could be meta.
I think we're gonna see it a lot now.
It still doesn't look good, be reasonable.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713664#Comment_3713664
Yeah, but it's a waste of a perk slot. Something as basic and necessary shouldn't require a whole perk. Survivors got basekit BT, yet killers still can only dream about basekit Lightborn. So the previously mentioned solutions about slugging builds is much better in my opinion, not only you deny survivors 318 of their god-mode and bully perks which activate only after pick-up or unhook, but also make them extremely salty.
Sadly, the forums have been very vocal about disagreeing with you. People do want band-aid perks to continue.
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@jokere98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715284#Comment_3715284
"How do you know what the perk is meant for? BHVR itself has never determined DS should be just an anti-tunnel perk."
Patch 4.6.0:- Decisive Strike - Now deactivates when performing certain actions that are not part of evading the Killer
in what world is bodyblocking a killer can be considered "part of evading the killer"?
In what world do you think the game can tell what a bodyblock is?
Note also that it says 'certain' actions. Not 'all' actions.
@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715321#Comment_3715321
According to data which is inaccurate as far as how strong a killer is.
Yes, I imagine you'd prefer to rely on killer anec-data, where killers will declare something OP if it made getting a 4K slightly harder.
Wish I was joking, but it's a legitimate trend that there'll be complaints about a survivor loadout or playstyle, with the attached proof being an end-game screen with a 4K.
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@IamFran said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715321#Comment_3715321
Every perk which is too strong of not used for its intented purpose should be nerfed.
Well, DS wasn't too strong, and where does it list its intended purpose?
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715277#Comment_3715277
Without any "unfun" strats or good gen regression, the only viable things left are the game being balanced either for chases to end very fast and/or for gens to take a mind numbing amount of time to complete. Both of which survivors in general have stated they don't like.
What gameplay experience are you talking about if not those? Realistically they're not gonna remake the game from the ground up either, so it can't be something that'd require that.
You can have good regression or the unfun strats, but when you combine both, you get a problem. It's why some of the perks were changed to work less with some of the unfun strats, but that's clearly not enough.
Forums have been pretty vocal though, in that the unfun strats have to stay, which subsequently does mean that the gen regression is going to have to take a nerf in order to bring killers back in line again.
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@IamFran said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715096#Comment_3715096
It is funny that you say such BS thing like "It's a survivor perk. It does a thing that benefits survivors. That makes it OP" when in the same patch a bunch of meta killer perks are also being nerfed.
What's your point?
Killers overperform, they get nerfed, so then it's fine if survivors also get nerfed?
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@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715096#Comment_3715096
The conditions of the perk lead to it being used offensively. Bodyblocking a fresh hook to try and stun the killer is not what it was meant for. You already have survivors using base kit bt to body block, otr to bodyblock etc don't play dumb
How do you know what the perk is meant for? BHVR itself has never determined DS should be just an anti-tunnel perk.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715096#Comment_3715096
Again, talking about the offensive usages of the perk, like, standing in a doorway and physically using your body with basekit BT to prevent the killer from going after someone else.
The killer can't "chase you to a corner of the map" the survivor dictates where the chase goes.
Again, talking about the offensive usages of the perk, like, standing in a doorway and physically using your body with basekit BT to prevent the killer from going after someone else.
You can't. You can take a hit, but you can't force the killer to change targets.
The killer can't "chase you to a corner of the map" the survivor dictates where the chase goes.
But you were talking about using it offensively after the killer chased you to the corner of the map. That sounds to me like the killer is actively and intentionally chasing a target that has been unhooked within the last 60 seconds, which is what DS is supposed to be for.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715179#Comment_3715179
So take those strategies away. What is left?
A game that can be balanced towards a broader, more engaging gameplay experience, without the constant threat in the background.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715169#Comment_3715169
Its not a threat, its a prediction. If they keep nerfing the things that are viable alternatives to the "unfun" strategies that survivors complain about, then all that is going to happen is more and more killers are going to play in that "unfun" way.
That is, unfortunately, a consequence of having these 'unfun' strategies continue to exist.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715123#Comment_3715123
Its simply a statement as to how long killer actions actually takes, if you look at other posts, you'll see the main point is quite simply the game goes TOO FAST if you do not have gen defense and aren't playing nurse, which is why every game has gen defense. And the game should not be balanced around that fact, they should buff basekit gen defense and nerf all of the perks, so you'll start to see a wider variety of perks and builds.
The point is that, if you continue to make it so killers aren't even able to gain any time by hooking, then why bother hooking at all? Which is the point of this thread.
If it's up to killers, the games will -always- go 'too fast'. But nothing in the statistics suggests that this is actually the case.
The point is that, if you continue to make it so killers aren't even able to gain any time by hooking, then why bother hooking at all? Which is the point of this thread.
The problem is that this is always what happens whenever any nerf to killers gets announced. 'If this nerf goes through, I'll just slug/tunnel/camp'.
And this will continue to happen as long as killers feel dissatisfied in any way. Killers have never been able to 'gain time' by hooking, and it's never stopped them from continuing to win games.
This is another reason I detest camp/tunnel/slug strategies. They get pulled out whenever a nerf is announced, almost like a protection racket. Even this thread, in which you yourself do also recommend nerfing all the perks, still has an air to it of 'if we don't get compensatory basekit buffs, I'm gonna slug'.
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@Reinami said:
I'm calling it now.
The new meta will be slugging.
Deadlock isn't really that good of a perk, grim embrace was okish, the only ones worth anything were pop and pain res.
I really think people underestimate how long it takes killers to do anything. Do you know how long it takes to hook a survivor?
- 2.7 wipe animation
- 3 second pickup animation
- ~10 seconds to walk to a scourge hook (a little more than half the bar, sometimes more sometimes less, but scourge hooks are harder to get to sometimes)
- 1.5 second hook animation
Now, even if you KNOW exactly where the gen is that popped, and assume its only half a map away from you. Lets say its the gen on the very middle of the map. How long does it take to walk to that gen? About 11 seconds.
So you have
2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 + 11 = 28.2 seconds.
What is pain res NOW? 22 seconds off a gen.
Pain res LITERALLY does not pay for itself most of the time. Now you want to nerf it even more?
Any on top of that you want to nerf pop back to uselessness? When pop was at 20% nobody used it for a reason, 20% of CURRENT is nothing.
The only reason that "pain res is in nearly 40% of games" is because it is the "best" gen defense perk. But the game is LITERALLY BALANCED AROUDN THE IDEA THAT KILLERS MUST BRING GEN DEFENSE" Even top tier players and streamers basically admit this. Scott, otz, etc. all say that the game is balanced around killers bringing gen defense. Try not bringing gen defense some time in any high mmr game and watch you get destroyed.
I WANT to bring other perks, i DO NOT WANT to have to bring gen defense every game. PLEASE do the following:
- Nerf all of these perks harder. YES HARDER, cut them down even more. And nerf the other ones while you are at it
- BUFF the basekit gen kick to 10%
- BUFF the basekit gen regression to 200%
Make it like you have just done with leatherface. NERF THE ADDONS (in this case the perks) AND BUFF THE BASEKIT.
What is pain res NOW? 22 seconds off a gen.
Pain res LITERALLY does not pay for itself most of the time. Now you want to nerf it even more?
I don't know where this idea came from of regression needing parity with progression, but it doesn't fly. It's an asymmetrical game. If Killers are doing too well with their regression being weaker than survivors' progression rates, then clearly, having them be on par would push the game to be extremely killer-sided.
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@jotaro said:
The perk literally only lasts 60 seconds, and will disable if the survivor does anything useful for the team ( unhook, heal, repair gens etc) and does not work when exit gates are powered. It is insanely easy to counter this perk as killer, literally just dont tunnel.
If for some reason you have to down the same survivor again, leave them on the ground and come back later, the timer goes really fast. DS should be effective and punish killers who focus and tunnel one survivor.
Can someone please explain how on earth is ds ”too effective” with 5 second stun? I really dont get it
It's a survivor perk. It does a thing that benefits survivors.
That makes it OP.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715076#Comment_3715076
That's also a fair point. I'm more responding to it being 3 seconds vs 4 seconds vs 5 seconds. In reality, take a second off for the current animation to play out.
But 3 seconds is too short unless you are downed like on a pallet or loop
5 seconds is too long because you can offensively use it in corners of the map and still get somewhere safe
4 seconds is probably just right, where, if you are getting tunneled, its going to help you, but if you are using it offensively, to body block a doorway or something, you are gonna have a harder time getting somewhere safe.
5 seconds is too long because you can offensively use it in corners of the map and still get somewhere safe
How are you using it offensively in the corner of the map? If a killer chases you all the way into the corner of the map, downs you and picks you up, they deserve to get stunned for 5.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669472#Comment_3669472
The escape rate is a mostly meaningless statistics for one simple reason. They showed that skull merchant has nearly an 80% kill rate.
Now, you can either believe that SM is by far the most overpowered killer that has ever existed in DBD (and then also try to explain why BHVR hasn't nerfed her yet, and is wasting their time on much WORSE killers like…. blight….). Or you can believe that people hate her so much, they just immediately give up and kill themselves on hook, giving her an extremely high kill rate.
Based on that, the escape statistics are meaningless, because they are including people who give up.
That works both ways though, which is why Doctor tanked from being one of the highest killrates to one of the lowest. These statistics also include bot-killers torpedoing their MMR and farming BP.
Not to mention that these statistics also separate out high MMR, where these drops and disconnects are less likely to occur.
Also also, @TheLastTreedad necro'd this thread.
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Female: Zarina, Kate, Claudette
Male: Felix, Vittorio, Leon
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An idea I had would be to give the survivor an active ability, to be used while running and injured, that would basically be like Spirit's power: You don't see anything, you can't interact with anything, you can't be interacted with, you can't collide with other actors. Immediate chase-ender, on demand. But it can't do anything beyond that.
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@Junylar said:
A new killer has to deal with new survivors, who usually don't do gens and don't know how to loop, hence games for new killers are a breeze. The lower the skill level of the players, the stronger the killer role.
That doesn't hold up, statistically. High MMR has higher kill rates.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711838#Comment_3711838
No survivors bring 4 healing perks because an exhaustion perk is must run, so FP will not counter an entire survivors build. You can use your 4 healing perks on other survivors as well so again it’s not a counter.
Forced Penance applies to ONE of FOUR survivors at a time and goes on cooldown for 80 seconds which of why it’s garbage. Meanwhile Distortion is applied to the only killer and applies to all 4 perks. Also yes it takes 4 tokens (not really cuz lockers) but it’s ONE perk that counters 4 at ONCE. Not just 4 in general because every perk counters multiple. I’m talking FOUR of the exact same at ONCE.
Not only that but 4 KILLER perks. Killer perks should not be so easily countered because they are the killer after all. One killer perk countering 4 survivor perks would be far more reasonable than the other way around.
No survivors bring 4 healing perks because an exhaustion perk is must run, so FP will not counter an entire survivors build.
I have, so that's incorrect.
But even if I hadn't, wouldn't that also be a notch against your argument? No killer has any reason to bring four aura perks.
Forced Penance applies to ONE of FOUR survivors at a time and goes on cooldown for 80 seconds which of why it’s garbage.
Neither of those statements are true. The broken effect gets applied to one survivor, yes, but it bans ALL survivors from healing them, thus disabling ALL healing perks. Multiple survivors can be broken by Forced Penance simultaneously, as it does not, in fact, have a cooldown.
I’m talking FOUR of the exact same at ONCE.
Why are you bringing the same perk four times?
Not only that but 4 KILLER perks. Killer perks should not be so easily countered because they are the killer after all. One killer perk countering 4 survivor perks would be far more reasonable than the other way around.
Except Distortion doesn't work like that because one Distortion doesn't block any killer perk by itself. You need four distortions to block those killer perks.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711762#Comment_3711762
It’s overtuned because it can block 4 killer perks at once. Almost No other killer perks can be blocked at all. Distortion should definitely exist but it does not need 10 seconds of aura read negation. 10 seconds is overturned because 6 seconds still blocks every aura read except a few. Either that or leave it at 10 seconds and make survivors unable to see how many tokens they have so they can’t figure out the killers build and hide in lockers. You can just have it lit up when you have stacks and dark when it’s empty.
Distortion currently can: Block 4 Killer perks at once, tell you exactly what perks the killer has, tell you what add ons the killer has, hides scratch marks and pools of blood for 10 seconds AND allows you to gain tokens IN CHASE (even pebble doesn’t recharge in chase and pebble is objectively weaker)
THAT is overtuned. I’m tired of people complaining about 4 slowdowns and when I use a full aura read build to spare them from 4 slowdowns I get punished heavily if even 2 survivors have distortion. There is no incentive to NOT use 4 slowdowns because they can’t be blocked, it’s guaranteed value and you don’t have to worry about a perk countering them.
It’s overtuned because it can block 4 killer perks at once.
It takes four to block those perks, not one and it can only do so because all those perks share the same function. Forced Penance can block 16 perks, is that overtuned too?
I’m tired of people complaining about 4 slowdowns and when I use a full aura read build to spare them from 4 slowdowns I get punished heavily if even 2 survivors have distortion.
A) You have options beyond ALL slowdown and ALL aura reading.
B) You hardly get punished it seems, considering you wiped the floor with them.
What you're overall suggesting is to give a nerf to a perk that is, categorically, not OP, because your wonk build got countered. If that's the case, I want to be able to heal through broken if I have four healing perks.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711567#Comment_3711567
The lockers did do the heavy lifting so they can EASILY nerf it down to 6 seconds and it would change nothing except for giving 1 second aura reads here and there.
And your second point is irrelevant because no perks are good enough to stop a killer from winning if they tunnel someone out immediately. If distortion hits your aura for the whole game it still wouldn’t save them but is clearly overtuned. Just like MFT.
killer perks are supposed to be stronger. It’s 4 perks vs 16.You haven't shown how it's overtuned, though. You've only shown that it's trivial to overcome, which is kinda the opposite.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Don’t listen to any of these survivors they are all very biased, distortion is WAAAAY overturned. ONE PERK should NOT COUNTER FOUR. I played against a 4 man distortion squad while I had 4 aura perks and after 9 hooks got ZERO AURA READS! Because distortion tells you exactly what perks the killer has and they hid in lockers whenever I hooked etc.
There are only TWO perks in the game where the aura read can consume two stacks and that’s Hex Retribution (15 seconds) of aura read after a hex is cleansed and bitter mumur, after the last gen is completed all survivors auras are revealed for 10 seconds (12 with lethal)
Distortion could have its aura read negation set to 6 seconds instead of 10 and it would still counter almost every single perk except when combined with lethal. Survivors will also say “if you don’t bring any aura reads, then I just have a wasted perk slot.” But if I bring full aura and you have distortion I have NONE.
And then they complain about 4 slowdown? Like HELLO!?! SLOWDOWN PERKS DON’T GET CANCELED BY ONE PERK! You don’t want me to use slowdown, you don’t want me to use aura so what should I use?!? Unrelenting? Is that okay?! Or should I just use zero perks? Should I even try to kill survivors? The truth is if there were no Gen slowdown perks or aura reading perks at all they would complain perks like bamboozle.
It doesn’t matter at the end of the day. I still won my match because I tunneled and slugged at 5 gens. Me running zero slowdown because survivors hate it was a mercy and then you bring one perk that negates all 4 of mine. Mercy is dead.
Don’t listen to any of these survivors they are all very biased, distortion is WAAAAY overturned. ONE PERK should NOT COUNTER FOUR. I played against a 4 man distortion squad while I had 4 aura perks and after 9 hooks got ZERO AURA READS! Because distortion tells you exactly what perks the killer has and they hid in lockers whenever I hooked etc.
Sounds like lockers did most of the heavy lifting, huh?
It doesn’t matter at the end of the day. I still won my match because I tunneled and slugged at 5 gens. Me running zero slowdown because survivors hate it was a mercy and then you bring one perk that negates all 4 of mine. Mercy is dead.
'This perk is insanely OP, so I decided to just choose to win against it.'
Because apparently it's not overtuned enough to actually make a difference.
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@supersonic853 said:
Radiusses? Radiusii? Something. Lol. I've been trying a "nowhere and everywhere" skull merchant with dark devotion and unforseen with iridescent Unpublished Manuscript. So I was wondering. If you've smacked the obsession (or they were hit by a drone). Another survivor has disabled a drone. And you've kicked a gen. Your terror radius should be in 3 different areas right? I've been using them for the past few games and it does seem like chaos for survivors especially on indoor maps (midwich is king). Just wanted some clarification if it's working as I suspect?
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Iridescent_Unpublished_Manuscript
Radiusii?
I wanna make a joke here so bad, but I feel I might get banned if I do...
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711139#Comment_3711139
I never said "getting a hook" was "doing well".
That is what you're saying when you say that NWO has a baseline value and doesn't require you to do well, in contrast to pop and pain res.
@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711000#Comment_3711000
by this sort of logic being tunneled is a skill issue because you didnt loop the killer hard enough.
Do you... know what tunnelling is?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711128#Comment_3711128
I never said it was. All I said was it gave free value.
No, but you do say you need to be playing well to get value from things like PGTW. And 'getting a hook' is not a high enough bar to pass to warrant it being called 'doing well'.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711058#Comment_3711058
Because regardless of hooks NWO still has a base activation amount. It’s not entirely reliant on doing well to get decent value.
'Getting at least one hook' is not 'doing well' in my book either.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711060#Comment_3711060
upon getting hooked may be. If you mean gaining tokens when unhooking others. It doesn’t change that other get found because they dont have Distortion, get hooked. And the one using Distortion unhook them then gain tokens again.
The same thing happen with Friend til the end. The Aura-Expose has to give to the least hooked survivor.
I meant upon getting unhooked, don't want those tokens firing while you're on hook.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711053#Comment_3711053
I dont find any problem with Distortion on killer side. I dont need aura perk to find survivors, and using aura perk shows aura of 1-2 survivors who dont use Distortion lead to tunneling which is strong against survivors, even if you dont want to tunnel. Even if all 4 survivor use Distortion, its one perk against their 4.
On survivor side, it punishes survivors who dont use Distortion real hard. The image OP posted showed it, they had the lowest score. Distortion doesnt need a nerf on its strength, but rather how it works. It can simply gain token in chase, or only hide aura if you have the most hook count.
Maybe it should gain a batch of tokens upon unhook?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711023#Comment_3711023
We’re just not going to agree then. They are in fact blatantly canceled out by skill. I find it weird to even need to say that. If the survivors are really good you get much less value from gen regression perks and if they’re not you get high value. This is why at the highest level you see mostly passive value perks that you get even if the survivors are good such as NWO, NOED, Deadlock ect. Agree to disagree I guess.
Hold up, why's NWO in that list? Surely if survivors are skilled enough to cancel PGTW and Pain Res, they're skilled enough to cancel NWO?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711017#Comment_3711017
If we’re gonna play semantics to that degree then we can stretch that every single thing in the game is just a skill issue and it devalues the point of any of these conversations.
Not really. Tons of perks don't work that way. I think it's far more facetious to claim that gen regression perks can be cancelled out by skill.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710305#Comment_3710305
DS was before, and it was even more horrible in the past. Throughout DbD history slugging has always been a reaction to some kind of BS survivors had: be it permanent sabo, 99 sabo, flashlight saves or DS. And now there would be an expected rise of slugging builds due to yet another buff to DS.
As for the end-game slugging, OP's team or he himself probably was teabagging the killer at every pallet, judging by how often he seems to meet such sluggers in the game (they are not that frequent even now). BM for BM.
And now there would be an expected rise of slugging builds due to yet another buff to DS.
) DS gets buffed once
) gets a ton of nerfs
) the nerf that undid the one buff it got gets reverted
) "Yet another buff to DS!"
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711000#Comment_3711000
Because being skilled can prevent those gen perks from activating. Being skilled on killer doesn't prevent Distortion from blocking the aura perks.
You can be skilled on killer and not need those aura perks, but being skilled enough to need them is not the same as being skilled enough to counter the perk itself. Those are two very different things.
Like I generally never run aura perks because as we're talking about, you can become skilled enough to where they seem redundant as you have good situational awareness to generally know where survivors are. But the point is turning perks off, not being skilled enough to not need them.
Except blocking aura perks is not Distortion's value, it's the way by which it attempts to apply value.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710990#Comment_3710990
A perk turning off another perk has nothing to do with skill.
Knowing how to loop well, is a skill.
You're turning this into an us vs them when these two are completely not comparable.
Knowing how to find survivors is also a skill. You're drawing up the flimsiest distinctions here.
Distortion does nothing if you find them anyway, so why would 'git gud' not apply here?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710815#Comment_3710815
"There is no counter to gen regression. If a killer brings a regression
build, Survivors better know how to loop or they're pretty much DoA."There is a counter and you stated it. It's get good at the game. It doesn't require an item or perk, it's literally just learning how to loop and extend chases. Saying learn how to loop or you're DoA is like saying if you aren't good at the game you lose. Yes, if you aren't good at the game you lose.
"I can see how you feel Distortion unhealthy. But Distortion = Lightborn"
Yes, and as I stated earlier I feel the same way about Lightborn. I'd change Lightborn too. That said, making this direct comparison isn't quite the same. Lightborn is countering Background Player and Flashbang which currently also have no counters. That's basically the only reason you're seeing Lightborn right now. If those two perks didn't exist in their current uncounterable state no one would be using Lightborn other than new or bad players. Your whole argument here only makes since if I didn't think Lightborn was designed bad and I was okay with it, but I'm not. Both should be changed. Trying to argue Distortion is okay because Lightborn exists as it does is whataboutism.
"Distortion shuts down all sources of Aura reading, often but not 100%"
The only time it's not 100% is when you're getting to 3 aura perks at least, many times 4. Even if you do break it with 3 it's still blocking like 90% of them.
"Removing all exhaustion perks is not at all equivalent to Distortion or
Lightborn. Its just straight up over powered and suits your needs, so
you type it. If you really believe this, you're simply out of touch with
the game."You're assuming intent behind my statements when you're wrong about it. I highly doubt I'm out of touch with the game when I'm creeping towards 11,000 hours invested and play this game weekly on both sides way more than a full time job. Instead of being condescending towards me about that statement, actually give me a reason why I'm wrong instead.
"Finally, "You're conflating two things that aren't the same again. (← You've been doing that this whole time also, btw) A killer power turning off a perk and a perk turning perks off are not the same thing."
No, I am not. I'm comparing things that are alike.
"Sigh. Yes, yes it is. If a perk gets nullified or disabled by anything other than the perk itself, it's still the same result"
Looking at just the result being the same and not what it takes to get that result isn't an accurate way of looking at it. That's like looking at kills or escapes in dbd and ignoring how the game arrived there. It's a flawed metric to look at blindly.
"Killer power doesn't just get a free pass because its a killer power. If
something turns something else off, it should be looked at and asked
"Is this over or underpowered?" Source shouldn't matter imo. Though I'd
like opinions on this take. I'm not 100% I convinced myself of this.
Need more input. Thanks!"It's not just getting a free pass because it's a killer power. Over or underpowered is being looked at, hence why I said those things being shut off are factored into their balance. IE plague shuts healing off but is balanced around that because even though she has everyone exposed and can't heal she has zero power and is just a basic m1 during that. Hence why most stay broken and pump gens because she is so loopable in that state.
There is a counter and you stated it. It's get good at the game.
This goes for Distortion too, though. Killers could find survivors without aura reading back in the day, why can't they do so anymore now?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710616#Comment_3710616
I do not agree. killer plays the game on a clock so a perk slowing killer momentum can be the difference between wins and losses.
Survivors are on the clock too.
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710866#Comment_3710866
Do you believe everything one side does should have a counter? Are there instances when something shouldn't be countered?
Depends on the strength of the benefit. Counters are just a balancing measure, but not everything is strong enough to need a counter.
Take Weaving Spiders: would it be OP if gen-blocking didn't also cancel it?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710610#Comment_3710610
A survivor that has not selected DS should not be getting value out of DS.
Killers have done this for years with Dead Hard. At this point, with the amount of perks in the game now, if a killer DECIDES to counterplay a perk or not, its strictly on them. Kind of tired of all these decisions made by [Any player] being the fault of the other players. Anyone's fault but the one who made the decision. That's strictly ego trying to safeguard the player.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710539#Comment_3710539
Love your chill demeanor with dishing out the facts. But Im noticing people saying things like "But there's no counter play!" or something akin to it.
Choices having consequence is pretty vital to this game imo. But if everything in the game has to have a counter, then there's never going to be risk, other than not having the perk needed for a counter. Yur back and forth with @Devil_hit11 has been a good read, but eventually one of you will not have a counter to the other, and I wonder if that will be an issue in and of itself. Curious as to your thoughts on this?
The counters aren't the be-all-end-all, IMO, but just a part of the balancing equation. If something has a counter, depending on the counter's accessibility, it is going to be 'weaker' than if it didn't have one.
Things like Deadline or Desperate Measures are fine, even if they have few/no easily accessible counters. DS packs a punch though, so it needs to have a counter.
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Second perk, one time use, still wasting time.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710587#Comment_3710587
they already helped the team by bodyblocking.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710590#Comment_3710590
Also survivors without DS would be picked up immediately.
A survivor that has not selected DS should not be getting value out of DS. Killers do not want to pick up survivor with DS. DS should not be triggering unless voluntary choosing to pick up DS.
they already helped the team by bodyblocking.
That's not a good trade-off for spending who knows how long chasing the killer after getting unhooked, and then spending time slugged and either pulling another survivor off gen or blowing a second, single-use perk.
This ain't a good deal for survivors.
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Not keen on CoH or Solidarity, with both being too situational. Desperate Measures would likely provide more consistent value.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710542#Comment_3710542
it works like visual terror radius indicator where it shows a heart in middle of screen. For killer, it would show decisive strike icon with circle when the killer is nearby a survivor that is in the dying state. a half black/half white would be 30 second of decisive strike remaining. 3/4 white, 1/4 black would be 45 seconds remaining.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710539#Comment_3710539
If your decisive strike is 45 second and you down, the tunneler has choice to pick-up or wait 45 seconds. That is called counter-play. The slugging problem is lack of counter-play. the survivor always get to stay alive for 60 seconds or second chance.
You can't ignore them in a way that does not put a detriment to the killer when decisive strike is used offensively for body blocking. A survivor can prevent the killer from seeing timer by hoping into a locker. At that point, a killer pulling a survivor out of the locker is tunneling. A survivor that jump into a locker to DS cannot use DS offensively.
If your decisive strike is 45 second and you down, the tunneler has choice to pick-up or wait 45 seconds. That is called counter-play. The slugging problem is lack of counter-play. the survivor always get to stay alive for 60 seconds or second chance.
You seem to be forgetting something: DS is a survivor perk. It shouldn't be a net neutral or negative for the survivor.
While that survivor is slugged, thay're not helping their team. Take the free pressure.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710169#Comment_3710169
the slugging is the problem. a suggestion would be to put UI element that shows what timer of decisive strike is on. Survivor would far less encouraged to use decisive stirke offensively knowing that killer will wait out their decisive more precisely.
Except that'd help a tunnelling killer too.
How is the slugging the problem, anyway?