Firellius
Firellius
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Any time there's a woe-is-me killer story of someone being completely unable to get more than two hooks in the average match while still somehow claiming to be 'top MMR' people just go 'yeah that tracks, game is so unfair to killers'
But any time there's any data that conflicts that, people suddenly put on their thinking cap and scrutinise the crap out of it. Even BHVR's data is weighed less heavily than the anec-data from random, unidentified forum users, so long as said anec-data supports the idea that killers need buffs.
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I think I once saw someone suggest that map offerings, when played by survivors, should reduce the chance of that map appearing, while a killer's map offering remains the way it is now.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774401#Comment_3774401
People dying instead of escaping through hatches, is in my eye same thing
Game is lost, escape is nothing but a pity, you won't even rise MMR
Rise of killrate is meaningless when the amount of winning and losing matches doesn't change
It might change the feeling a little though, but then I'm not against fixing balance according to higher kill rate too
That's a double whammy of 'no thanks'. Survivors would be stiffed on a ton of BP and their matches would be significantly worse when they get forcibly stuck in losing matches with zero chance of winning, and on the killer side, if the kill rate goes up as a result of hatch removal and to compensate, killers take overall nerfs that bring not just the kill rate, but the win rate down, that's going to feel worse on them, too.
That would make things worse on both sides, which is really hard to accomplish in DBD.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773403#Comment_3773403
Its not coms, its simple.
You bring an item and you get hit, what do you see? Well you see that you dropped your item, and you get a speed boost. The range on weave is 12 meters. During that speed boost and killer wipe animation, how far do you get? You get 14.4 meters away. So now you are out of range of weave.
Now what happens? You get chased, maybe downed, maybe the killer breaks off. Now what? Well, when it is safe, you run back over to your item, which was probably nearby a gen at least a few short 5-10 seconds away from one. You pick up the item, you run to an edge of the map, you press R, and then you run to that nearby gen. Each survivor does this, and now the killer has 2 perk slots and you spent maybe an extra 10-15 seconds of your time doing it.
Now, what if your teammates are bad and aren't doing this? Well, that is fine too, because weave TELLS YOU when it is in play due to the oblivious status effect. It should be pretty obvious when you randomly get it, because no other thing causes oblivious like that. So now you know that within 12 meters of you (and you know the rough direction) there is an item. Again 12 meters is the distance of 2 lunges, that is extremely short. It should take you maybe 5 seconds to find the item, you walk up to it, pick it up, run to an edge, press R.
Same thing.
So it's either really excessive aura reading or total item blockade + 60+ seconds slowdown. Totes fair.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773650#Comment_3773650
There are a lot of people that are only excessively hiding, because there is a quick and easy perk that enables this playstyle. If this perk is nerfed good enough, some of these people absolutely will go to a more active playstyle. And it doesn't matter if this number isn't 100%, because as long as it's higher than 0%, that is good enough.
Really?
So if 10% become active runners and 90% of them turn into locker-bots, that's an improvement to you?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773611#Comment_3773611
It would help, because it would make it more difficult for excessively hiding survivor to escape, which means they won't be rewarded as much for their anti-teamwork behavior.
Also, Distortion users that excessively hide from the killer, are a problem for the whole team, even though they are "work on gens… and more". Unless the "and more" involves helping with chases, it's a problem for the team. They are still a burden to their team, because they are forcing their teammates to carry them with extra chases.
It would help, because it would make it more difficult for excessively hiding survivor to escape, which means they won't be rewarded as much for their anti-teamwork behavior.
But that's operating under the assumption that all the perma-hiders will swap to an active and engaged playstyle, and there's no reason to assume they would.
If they don't swap to that style, their chances of survival probably increase because they'll be taking fewer risks and can just make a hatch-play with greater consistency.
Also, Distortion users that excessively hide from the killer, are a problem for the whole team, even though they are "work on gens… and more". Unless the "and more" involves helping with chases, it's a problem for the team. They are still a burden to their team, because they are forcing their teammates to carry them with extra chases.
But that's compared to a full-active player, instead of a perma-hider without Distortion. That's my point.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773490#Comment_3773490
Zero people are saying the goal is to literally forbid people from excessively hiding. ZERO PEOPLE! "They'll still find a way to excessively hide" is literally not an argument, because zero people are saying it would 100% forbid it.
Should the upcoming "longer hook states" change be reverted, because you literally can't stop killers from camping, and "they'll still find a way" to camp, even if hook states are made longer?
It's literally not the point to 100% prevent something. It's to help discourage, or to make less effective. That's it! And nerfing Distortion would make excessive hiding more difficult and less effective, and that is the goal.
Would it, though?
Someone that wants to perma-hide, with Distortion, is able to work on gens, heal allies, do totems, and more. They can actually contribute.
Without Distortion, if someone wants to perma-hide, they can just sit in a locker for the entire match.
Axing Distortion might just make perma-hiders a bigger problem because now they're not doing gens anymore.
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@Neaxolotl said:
It's a tunneling perk
Everything is a tunnelling perk if you're forum killer enough!
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772500#Comment_3772500
I almost exclusively play "weak killers" (Myers, Ghostface, Pig, Dredge, Doctor) and I never intentionally tunnel or camp outside of EGC. I don't have an issue with winning. I probably have an above average win rate at around 60-65%.
This whole "killers need to camp and tunnel or they lose" has always been bunk. There are some niche scenarios where a bit of camping can be useful, usually scenarios instigated by survivors in the first place. But for the most part, if you feel you need to camp/tunnel to have a chance, you're probably doing something wrong and not applying enough pressure. Or you mistakenly believe you should be winning every game, or letting confirmation bias lead you to believe that the 40% of games you lose are somehow more significant than they are.
This whole "killers need to camp and tunnel or they lose" has always been bunk.
Wasn't it just last week where someone made a thread claiming to have proof that killers rarely, if ever, tunnel?
Consensus on tunnelling is giving me whiplash. Either everyone's doing it because you have to and there's no way to win without it, or no one's doing it and survivor need to stop crying, but somehow I feel like it's both at the same time?
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@Yggleif said:
I think the thing I hate most about OP's argument is that it's actually really bad for the game because it sends the message that the quality of the buffs/nerfs don't matter only that both sides have an equal number of changes which is such an elementary understanding of game balance.
Devs fixing the PTB according to OP's whims:
Territorial imperative: Now grants permanent 0.25% haste.Hoarder: Chests take 0.25% longer to open.
Claustrophobia: Block lasts for .5 seconds longer.
Hangman's Trick: While carrying a survivor, increases gen kick damage by 1%.
Gearhead: The revealed survivor is hindered 2% for 3 seconds.
Rancor: The obsession's breathing sounds are increased by 5%.
Zanshin Tactics: You break pallets 2% faster.
There, now it's 10 to 10, so it's balanced.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772134#Comment_3772134
People who claim they want variety and then complain when bad Perks get Buffs are just hypocrites. Those are the people that complain about "every game" facing the same 4 Perks, but they also dont want other Perks to be good.
I jokingly once said that I wish that perks like No Mither, Autodidact, Potential Energy and Weaving Spiders would get removed because some people seem to take that trend of negative perks as a balancing benchmark.
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@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771911#Comment_3771911
It's about time efficiency, this change removes the killer's ability to punish greedy play and rewards survivors for being greedy, both of which are not healthy. There is nothing wrong with going out of your way to punish survivors who make mistakes, this change effectively makes it easier for survivors to not make a mistake while also removing the ability to punish them.
It's about time efficiency, this change removes the killer's ability to punish greedy play
It doesn't. The exact same scenarios can and will still play out, just ten seconds later than normal.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771835#Comment_3771835
It can definitely be to your detriment.
While you temporarily take one Survivor out of the game, there's really not much difference at all whether you unhook at one second or 59. The amount of progression you get as a killer is the same.
Instead of a Survivor being pressured by needing to unhook, they can put progress into a generator, and THEN go for an unhook. That way you're still making extra progress towards the objective, without the killer getting any extra progress.
You could punish this by forcing a trade or getting an extra stage, but this change makes that less likely to happen. It makes super efficient play less risky overall.
You only really get Survivors doing that once you start getting to the higher levels of play. A lot of survivors don't understand that you don't need to immediately unhook a Survivor once they're on a hook, and sometimes the better play is to just let em hang.
Greeding gens is an undeniably effective strategy, there's a reason people do it.
While you temporarily take one Survivor out of the game, there's really not much difference at all whether you unhook at one second or 59. The amount of progression you get as a killer is the same.
Instead of a Survivor being pressured by needing to unhook, they can put progress into a generator, and THEN go for an unhook. That way you're still making extra progress towards the objective, without the killer getting any extra progress.
Just to try and illustrate this a little bit…
1 survivor on hook for 70 seconds = 0 charges
1 survivor in chase = 0 charges
1 survivor on gen for 70 seconds = 70 charges
1 survivor on gen for 60 seconds and then unhooking for 10 = 60 charges
This totals 130 charges.
Conversely, with an immediate rescue, there'll be
1 survivor on hook for 10 seconds, then on gen for 60 = 60 charges
1 survivor in chase = 0 charges
1 survivor on gen for 70 seconds = 70 charges
1 survivor unhooking for 10 seconds, then going on gen for 60 seconds = 60 charges
This totals 190 charges.
Now, the numbers are all guesstimations, of course, but this is to illustrate how much more efficient it is for survivors to pull survivors off hooks earlier, rather than later. These extra ten seconds are not going to make a meaningful difference to a non-camping killer.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769264#Comment_3769264
Don't tell me you expected 2 killers be loop-able in the first place? If you are chased by two killers your only goal is to run towards the nearest corner away from uncompleted gens. Even if you last for 10 - 15 seconds, that is the time that competent survivors spend on doing 2 or 3 gens simultaneously.
Teaming up in this game as killers is the only fun aspect of the mode but the fact that there are potentially 7 other survivors repairing 70 seconds base time gens together puts too much stress out.
Don't tell me you expected 2 killers be loop-able in the first place?
Oh no, I fully expected this gamemode to be dead in the water for survivors the second people started talking about it.
But to present the issues with the gamemode as little more than 'killers get a bit of info' is infantile.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768903#Comment_3768903
survivors communicating with each other = fine
Killers having in very minor built in info = BLASPHEMY!!!Two killers working together completely eliminates the concept of looping, but don't let reality get in the way of a good tantrum.
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@ScytheIX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767851#Comment_3767851
I don't like whataboutism, but if WoO doesn't need a nerf, then Weave + Franklin's doesn't either.
See it like this:
The survivor sees the resources in an area.
As a killer, my resource is the survivor for I need hooks and gens for I need to defend them (the latter I see constantly). I can (if I'd run the combo mentioned) see the survivor constantly.
The easy way to counter 2 perks on killer is to take item, run corner, drop item.
I would need blindness addons/perks to do the same.
Just as Distortion (counters like 70+ things or something), WoO limits killer builds. I can't see you? Gen regression. I can't outmindgame you since you only hold W? Gen regression, hit and run. Why run blindness, if gen regression/slowdown is better overall?
Granted I don't play that way, because I don't play to win, since I play both sides and I know how frustrating getting tunneled might be for certain individuals that don't want to learn chase.
Kate may be a non licensed character, but you can not tell me a new player instantly knows about the perk and uses it unless they get told to get Kate, level her up and use her perk.
If survivors keep yapping about killer perks, the killers are allowed to voice their opinion on survivor perks that are overused, too.
Your reasoning isn't good enough to accept a "No, a nerf is not needed."
What is the reason people wouldn't accept a cooldown after a rushed action for example? You can preplan your route, memorize, execute. Instead of just "me see yellow me press space" (yoinked that from JRM).
Besides learnresistance there is no other reason.
If I have to learn to anticipate people hiding behind a rock edgemap or others living in lockers, survivors can easily learn looping too, no?Just as Distortion (counters like 70+ things or something), WoO limits killer builds. I can't see you? Gen regression. I can't outmindgame you since you only hold W? Gen regression, hit and run. Why run blindness, if gen regression/slowdown is better overall?
What perks would you switch to if WoO got removed tomorrow?
Because I can't think of a single killer perk that would be better off that isn't gen regression. I can think of a large number of perks that would be marginally less effective if the survivor isn't bee-lining for resources all the time, but the only perks I can think of that would be better off without WoO are, ironically, gen regression perks.
So this argument kinda feels like the classic forum killer gambit of 'Do what we say or else we do more of the thing you dislike'.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766211#Comment_3766211
Nah I disagree with that, the goal of the killer is to kill. Punishing killers for accomplishing their objective is absurd. Can't blame the killers for survivor lack of skill or general stupidity in some cases which get them killed quickly.
By your method of having a mechanic to strengthen the survivors if the killer kills someone then the same logic has to be applied to the other side. Every time a gen gets completed the killer gets an increase in speed. If killer gets punished for accomplishing their objective then the survivors should be punished for doing theirs (gens)
the goal of the killer is to kill.
Lorewise, it's actually not.
But also, this kind of argumentation didn't fly for old hatch, so why should it fly here?
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765946#Comment_3765946
Bhvr always tells a tale and then doubles back. Its kind of their thing. So no. I will not remain silence or stop adressing issues while bully squads and unlimited swf are allowed in dbd.
Maybe put your effort into addressing bully squads, not swiffers in general.
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I think it's done to offset the fact that you can't loop at all in 2v8.
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'There's this one wacky thing Distortion does that no one ever talks about!'
'What?'
'It blocks aura reading!'
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@[Deleted User] said:
TLDR.
I think the issue is killer speeds. If killer movement speed were more normalized, it would be easier to fix and balance gen speeds. Slow-moving killers waste a lot of time traveling from A to B and chasing survivors, unlike fast-moving killers. Because of this, slow-moving killers need longer gen times to compensate for all the wasted time. While, it can be hard for survivors to fix gens in time when they play against a fast-moving killer.
I think the better term for what you're referring to is 'map traversal', not speed.
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The Specialist buff sounds like a joke.
"We'll give it a buff that only works when paired with Appraisal, while also massively enabling Weave Attunement."
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757416#Comment_3757416
The kill rate percentage is such a deceptive, crowd-pleaser argument. And it still doesn't work for what they're trying to say, and in fact it destroys their own argument. We're playing a game where the killer is trying to kill*, and the survivors are trying to escape*. Why would a 60% kill rate be ideal, even for people who were killer biased? It still means that on average, half the survivors escape, which is a draw not and not an imaginary subjective 'win' condition "because it's about fun" or some mumbo jumbo. If you cut out the matches where the survivors completely threw, it was a complete mismatch, or someone gave up, kill rate would be like 40%, and that's being generous. The things that survivors have to do to win, and the skill they have to employ, is so much lower than what the killer has to do, and that shouldn't even be up for debate.
But yeah, the devs do what they want to do, even to the detriment of the game, and against the advice of the game's most experienced players. Somehow, the community has deemed them killer mains and survivor mains simultaneously. I think we know it's the latter, since (heck) is there actually a killer on the roster who hasn't been nerfed at some point? I'm really struggling to think of one. The devs are gonna continue to balance for, not survivor in general, but the lowest caliber of survivor possible, as in teams which fall apart the moment someone gets hooked or the killer uses a gen regression perk 1 time. If they balanced for high skill survivors, I'd have no issue, or at least less of an issue. But as I said, beginner survivor players, who still treat the game like a horror game, are their target audience, and the balance reflects that.
It still means that on average, half the survivors escape, which is a draw not and not an imaginary subjective 'win' condition "because it's about fun" or some mumbo jumbo.
That's not how this works.
Even if the average kill count would lean closer to draws, the volatility in game progression has consistently made draws the least likely outcome across the board. I think the last time I checked it, there were only three killers for which a 2K was -not- the least likely outcome. And the difference with the second least likely outcome would be less than a percent, IIRC.
A 60% KR is going to be overwhelmingly distributed among 0Ks, 1Ks, 3Ks and 4Ks. Which in turn means that there's just going to be more 3Ks and 4Ks than 0-1Ks.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757345#Comment_3757345
Do you really think it's possible to deny at this point? Case in point: Lich. This new killer is sitting at a 70% kill rate, and even if you support the 60% kill rate target you must agree that 70% is MASSIVELY unbalanced. Yet the devs do nothing.
In other live pvp games if something is so unbalanced it gets hotfixed within a week, sometimes even 24 hours. It's not normal for something to stay overpowered for years like Skull Merchant for example to the point it ruins the game for one side. Anyone who cares about balance should realize the devs have give up on it, because the goal now is to sell overpowered killers in the shop. This game can not be taken seriously as a competitive game anymore. I believe this business model will eventually end up being what kills the game, because survivors are 80% of the playerbase.
Do you really think it's possible to deny at this point? Case in point: Lich. This new killer is sitting at a 70% kill rate, and even if you support the 60% kill rate target you must agree that 70% is MASSIVELY unbalanced. Yet the devs do nothing.
He's still near 70%? I was told that the nerfs he got would bomb him down to F-tier!
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As killer: 3K+.
As survivor: gate escape.
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I don't do that, but that's also because the killer can make a comeback at any point, even with five gens done and both gates open. If I have practically no points and there's no NOED, I might do some extra credit stuff, but other than that, I do want to be able to secure the big BP escape bonus.
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UI that allows survivors to see one another's loadouts. A solid, indirect buff to a bunch of teamwork dependent perks.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752671#Comment_3752671
In the term of game system, going for 4k instead of 3k and getting it is reasonable expectation, literally slug and you can even get survivors up, so you can almost guarantee it, what truly is "unreasonable expectation" here is getting a hatch escape simply because it solely depends on killer
And look at what survivors saying everywhere, they are the one ABSOLUTELY expecting to get the game bend over backwards, so many survivors are asking for "guaranteed hatch" only to make them feel better, asking to change the game fundamental, even though it's an unreasonable expectation to get a hatch, some of them believe it MUST be guaranteed to happen and yelling it everywhere, to change the game system
what truly is "unreasonable expectation" here is getting a hatch escape
Except no one is demanding that they get a hatch escape.
Only that they get to TRY for one, instead of being forced to suicide.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752454#Comment_3752454
You're ignoring the survivors role in it again even though that's specifically what I was talking about. At this point the pattern is clear enough and I'm just talking to a survivor wall.
You're also misrepresenting what I'm saying on multiple occasions or leaving out very key context to argue a point different than what I'm saying. Even after I clarified further.
There's not really a point in continuing to try and talk with you when you're refusing to listen enough to even address the points I'm actually making and instead are arguing against the ones you want to hear.
You're not going to convince anyone doing that and I can't convince someone who won't actually take in what I'm saying.
You're ignoring the survivors role in it again
What role?
If a 3K always feels like a loss then that's irrespective of survivors. They literally have no power or influence here.
At this point the pattern is clear enough and I'm just talking to a survivor wall.
Considering what you've been arguing, I think you need a bit of survivor talking-to.
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751163#Comment_3751163
Has BHVR defined 3K as the win condition for this game? No, they have not. Many popular content creators like Otzdarva have defined that as THEIR win condition for their "Kill Streak" videos, but not every player watches them, and even if they do they are NOT those streamers. They can and will define a win themselves.
Personally? I don't really try to "win" myself, I just play the game, and sometimes I'll got for the 4K, sometimes I'll let the last survivor get hatch, hell sometimes I close the hatch then chase the last survivor to the door and nod to them as they open it, then smack them and let them crawl out (if I think there is time left on the EGC, otherwise I let them run)
But, if a player feels that only a "4K" is a win for them, then that's legitimate.But, if a player feels that only a "4K" is a win for them, then that's legitimate.
They can have all the feelings they want, but they can't expect the game to bend over backwards to accommodate them. And they certainly shouldn't blame survivors for their disappointment in the game when they come into it with unreasonable expectations.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752141#Comment_3752141
If that's "unhealthy" to you then the survivors are equally at fault since they are also the ones perpetuation the only real win condition being a 4K in the scenario/example given.
Honey, if you see a guy write 'a 3K always feels like a loss (for the killer)', you should realise that that is unhealthy. This person is clearly not going to enjoy the game, but still pushes themselves to play it. That's just a bad habit.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752122#Comment_3752122
You feel entitled to the hatch. You let go of that and the problem is gone.
Survivors do have a choice, they chose to hide and prolong the game just as much as the killer does. At that point it's not even a 4K, the killer is just trying for a 3K that time and the hatch is already causing problems.
How is it the killers fault for trying to get a 4K when at that point they're just trying to get a 3K? The 4K is not even a factor yet. But hatch is still causing the survivors to hide indefinitely.
You're just spouting double standards. Everything is the killer's fault according to what you've said so far. Maybe stop villainizing the killer. That's what's really unhealthy here. Not trying to achieve what the game is asking you to achieve as a killer.
Also please put context where necessary. They would rather hook someone and get their 3rd kill and let that survivor move on then get the 4th without risking it to hatch.
You did earn the 4K. The only way that last survivor actually earned that escape was if the killer got the 3rd kill after the gens were done or close to it.
You feel entitled to having the hatch escape. You let go of that and the problem is gone.
'Just suicide, 4head.'
Controversial take: Survivors should not be required to off themselves.
Survivors do have a choice, they chose to hide and prolong the game just as much as the killer does. At that point it's not even a 4K, the killer is just trying for a 3K that time and the hatch is already causing problems.
What problem? That they're hiding? That they're playing cautious? That they're not throwing themselves at the killer?
Maybe stop villainizing the killer
You're the one that insists that killers will ruin the game for everyone, including themselves, because they're obsessed with making an invisible number go up.
Not trying to achieve what the game is asking you to achieve as a killer.
The game is asking you to get a move on and hook the third survivor.
Also what I said meant they would rather hook someone and get their 3rd kill and let that survivor move on then get the 4th if risking it to hatch was not an issue.
Yeah, that's called 'having your cake and eating it too'. They've already won, they've clearly dominated the game, but according to you, they actually don't care that much about wasting 4+ minutes trying to work their way around an intended game mechanism. Because if they did, they would hook the third survivor.
Saying that they'd rather 'get the third kill' is disingenuous when they then go on to not do it.
It's clear, in situations like these, where their priorities lie.
You did earn the 4K.
If you don't have it yet, you haven't earned it. Same goes for survivors that get caught in the exit gates. They did everything they needed to, to get the escape, but they haven't earned it until they cross that finish line. Or are you suggesting we alter that, too?
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752082#Comment_3752082
Nope, killers go for 4k precisely because they want to win. 3k might be considered a win by the devs, but it still always feels like a loss, unless the escape is you deliberately giving the hatch to the last survivor. Tbagging at the hatch with following "ez" in the chat would not happen if the killer didn't consider 3k as a loss and the survivor didn't consider hatch escape as a win. So yeah, anything but 4k or 3k with hatch given is a loss for the killer, it's just how the game feels for both sides.
There you go: Unhealthy.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752082#Comment_3752082
It's not just about the killer, the survivors also hide indefinitely once they're down to 2 because of what? The hatch. You're going to say the killer going for a 4K is responsible for that too?
Frustration is purely emotional and therefore is subjective. So that's not an objective reason not to even if it's understandable. Boredom is also subjective. Most people just find the alternative more appealing as I also pointed out.
Again it's a "win most/most victorious" in most of these cases. You supposed to try and win as much as you can. That is the point of the game, it's not "unhealthy". Unless you just consider PvP games in general unhealthy.
While you are correct in it's a small amount of players, if you do happen to care about BP for that match a 4K is better obviously. If you care about winning as the game defines it a 4K is a better, absolute, stronger win than a 3K also obviously. This is further evident by the MMR system. You don't get a 3K and that's it you can't get anymore MMR points. You get more for a 4K because it's a stronger win.
If you personally have a different self imposed limit of how much "winning " is "winning enough" then that's good for you. But the game design is pretty clear that the thing the killer should be aiming for is to kill all the survivors or get as close to it as they can. So that's what players should be expected to do.
All the reasons to go for a 3K are subjective, main one being to be "nice". It's a PvP game, your opponents are not there to be "nice" to you. Most survivors aren't "nice" in return and many will even be sore winners about it.
If you personally want to play "nice" for whatever reason that's fine, but that's not to be expected of everyone.
There is still no objective reason not to try for the 4K in the current state of the game. Which means having to deny hatch as best you can. Slugging is the best way to go about it. So if the thing we're discussing that players are unhappy with on the survivor side of the gameplay is slugging for the 4K then the gameplay components that's responsible is the hatch. For the simple matter of if the hatch was not there, the killer would not slug (outside of toxicity or no hooks available). That is the threat making slugging the best play. That's the thing making the survivors hide indefinitely.
Idk about you but I'd rather have the killer just hook the 3rd survivor then get their 4K than have to wait 4 minuets staring at the floor just to die anyway because hatch exist. It's a waste of time. Take away hatch and let me get sacrificed and move on please. If we lost to the point the killer got a 4K so be it. We should have played better. I'm already punished by losing I don't need to get punished with time waste on top because the hatch threat is making the best play to stall us for 4 extra minuets.
On the flip I'd rather just get my 4K that I earned and move on, not have to scour every corner of the map to find the 3rd survivor and then fight RNGsus to see if that last kill just gets robbed away or not.
It's not just about the killer, the survivors also hide indefinitely once they're down to 2 because of what? The hatch. You're going to say the killer going for a 4K is responsible for that too?
Well, yeah. Survivors don't really have a choice. The only way they can close the game out faster is by just surrendering. Except this does make a difference for survivor, which it doesn't for killer. Killer will still get good BP and a win, whether they get that 4th kill or not, but survivor won't.
Again it's a "win most/most victorious" in most of these cases. You supposed to try and win
as much as you can. That is the point of the game, it's not "unhealthy".If you're ruining the game for yourself because you're chasing a 'win a little more' scenario, I am going to call that unhealthy, yes.
morefor a 4K because it's astronger win.Except the MMR ladder isn't even shown, the 4th kill rewards considerably less MMR, and climbing in MMR is only going to give you more difficult matches.
Again, this is a personal obsession getting in the way of your own enjoyment of the game. If killers would truly, as you said, 'much rather hook someone', then do so, rather than obsessing over an invisible value going up.
then the
gameplaycomponents that's responsible is the hatchAlso not true, considering there's also bleedout sluggers that don't care about the hatch. At its core, this problem is caused by the killer player's mentality, not by the hatch. But once again, killers ruin the game, and survivors are being told to foot the bill.
Also, consider the scenario if the hatch was not there. If there's no proper, gameplay way to turn a loss into a victory at that point, the only thing survivors are left with is trying to bore the killer into abandoning the match. Is that better?
Idk about you but I'd rather have the killer just hook the 3rd survivor then get their 4K than have to wait 4 minuets staring at the floor just to die anyway because hatch exist.
Or: We can have killers play the game the intended way. I know that's always been an issue, but we should really stop nerfing survivors because killers break the game.
On the flip I'd rather just get my 4K that I earned
That fourth kill isn't always earned. If you don't have it yet, you haven't earned it yet. If some survivor loops you for half an hour but the rest of their team isn't doing gens, you don't get to say you bested that survivor until you actually manage to kill them.
It's not the hatch that's the problem here. It's what you feel you are entitled to.
You let go of that, and the problem is gone.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751163#Comment_3751163
While that's technically true, the killer is trying to win as much as possible and get as much BP as possible and by all accounts they should be getting a 4K but hatch can rob away a kill. It's similar survivors going back to save someone at endgame even though they have 3 out guaranteed or the last survivor hiding even though they already lost.
The majority of killers would much rather hook someone, then find the last. But since hatch is an unnecessary risk to lose a kill you otherwise would get, they don't. Instead they spend 4 minuets slugging to give themselves as much time possible to find the last survivor. Why would you not? Objectively speaking, there's no reason not to. If you find the survivor great, if you don't well you just end up in the same position as if you hooked the 3rd survivor anyway. It only beneficial to slug in this scenario. You'd be stupid not to if you want to win as much as possible or get as much BP as possible. Which are both things players should be expected to be doing.
For survivor you have to wait 4 minuets on the floor and wait 4 minuets as the one hiding for hatch. They would much rather not do that. But objectively the best situation is to hide and try hatch for similar reasons.
Both sides are in a situation where objectively the best thing to do is waste 4 extra minuets waiting around for an RNG mechanic to either rob a kill or gift an undeserved escape. The survivor on the floor is even worse in this position as they just have to wait 4 minuets just to die anyway. That sucks for both sides as clearly the survivors aren't happy and killers aren't happy with the situation either.
Both sides could just say "whatever" and give up the last kill/escape and move on but they (generally) don't nor should they be expected to. The killer slugs and the survivor hides. So we just end up with mutually ensured boredom.
All this happens why? Because of the hatch. If you personally think that's fine then that's your opinion, but the situation occurs because of the hatch.
As @Neaxolotl said, its a "win most" and "most victorious" situation.
It doesn't happen because of the hatch, it happens because of the unhealthy relationship with the game. The killer is trying to get the 4K, not because it makes any distinction in whether they win or lose (Nor that it matters much for BP at that stage, unless the killer camped/tunnelled/slugged, but if they did that, they clearly don't care about BP), but because they've either set themselves an unreasonable standard, or they really want the last survivor to lose.
Objectively speaking, there's no reason not to.
Except the frustrations you lay out here are plenty reason not to do this. I don't do these hatch stand-offs, I don't slug for the 4K, and none of this is a problem for me. I just hook the third survivor and go looking for the hatch. If I find it first, I close it and go into EGC. If the survivor finds it first, they escape and I win anyway.
The problem with the hatch here is an entirely self-inflicted one. Nothing but you is making it a problem.
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@ChaosWam said:
I like the idea of remote hooking being a perk, but unlike the anniversary it should have a windup timer before you can use it to allow survivors to get the pallet/flashlight save. Like, a second before you can activate it?
I figure such a perk could fill the same niche as perks like Off the Record/DS/Unbreakable, etc. Make it charge its tokens based off things going wrong for the killer, either making it based on chase time (Therefor having a bit of a baseline value) or have it charge off of getting stunned while carrying a survivor.
Anti bully-squad perk, basically.
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@MrPenguin said:
You're basically complaining that the killer tried to win. Which is the point of a game and this one is no exception.
Besides that, this is a hatch problem.
Survivors hide indefinitely until the other dies for hatch.
Killer slugs indefinitely until the other is found or the first bleeds out because of hatch.
It sucks on both sides.
It really doesn't.
The killer in this situation isn't trying to win, they're trying to make you lose. They already secured the 3K, they already won.
The only one this sucks for is the survivor.
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I think I'd be more interested in Finesse + Dance With Me + Quick & Quiet + Lithe.
Just hop a window and vamoose.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748132#Comment_3748132
Yea I can be confrontational but he is dishonest, and only engaged in sophistry arguing consistently for things to be defined as re-argued pages onwards.
For example how he never refuted properly my earlier point that arua perks are weak referencing the tier list's of a youtuber that likely has way more hours than both of us and addressing the perks on an indiviudal level. Then brought up knightlight stats to say look they are strong actually bro.
That's not civil. He never has been, when I directly asked for him to reference the perks he is talking about multiple times, he never listed them, When i asked him to write written justification he never did so
and before its mentioned referencing his argumentation makes this not an ad hominem as it's about his argument not him.
I have been way more willing to engage with rulebreakers posts because of stuff like this and don't want to interact with him.
You cannot annoy someone like SpongeBob and then celebrate victory for being annoying.
He did not win an argument he just acted a bit like a ****. (yes that is an ad hominem)
Edit- Tbh re reading this you can think whatever you want of the argument that your right and my tilt does not change that.
but the fact you called that a civil discussion is outside the bounds of reality im sorry it just is
Yea I can be confrontational but he is dishonest
Oh, I am the dishonest one?
For example how he never refuted properly my earlier point that arua perks are weak referencing the tier list's of a youtuber that likely has way more hours than both of us and addressing the perks on an indiviudal level. Then brought up knightlight stats to say look they are strong actually bro.
That's not civil.
That is literally just a disagreement. You point to the subjective opinion of one Youtuber (Who, it could be argued, would naturally value aura reading perks less to begin with due to Otz's notable mastery of the macrogame), and I point to the consensus of the wider playerbase.
This somehow means I never refuted you (Even though you cannot refute a subjective opinion, which is the only thing you've fielded), and worse, makes me 'not civil'?
This is the most basic form of disagreement, and apparently, to you, that is the equivalent of hurling insults towards you.
No. This is crybully behaviour. You're falsely accusing me in the hopes that it'll make you, and by extension your argument, look better. It doesn't.
This makes you look worse.
EDIT: For a double whammy, I went back to Otz' tier list with the specific intent of highlighting that the tier list itself very explicitly says: This is Otz' OPINION.
But then I realised, hang on… You're now trying to argue these perks are -weak-, when you yourself already pointed out five of them in the 'strong' category, and your initial claim was that the rest aren't strong. Which is fine. But now you're claiming that these perks are specifically weak.
And guess what?
'Weak' is two tiers down, not one tier down from where you cut off the image. And there's a couple more aura reading perks that are NOT in that tier.
So even IF Otz's subjective opinion was somehow a valid argument, it would still not agree with you because Otz's opinion differs from how you have now portrayed it.
when I directly asked for him to reference the perks he is talking about multiple times, he never listed them
This is the second time you falsely claim this. We were three or four posts down the discussion when you suddenly didn't know which perks we were talking about anymore (Even though this wasn't a problem for you up until that point in the discussion), and I immediately pointed out a number of examples.
You then promptly ignored those, babbled on for two more posts, and then started claiming I never listed them. I told you I had, you didn't bother to check back over the thread to find what you had missed, so I gave you the courtesy of linking to the post.
AND YOU IGNORED IT AGAIN.
And now you're here, calling ME dishonest, because YOU are refusing to read my replies, specifically so you can up and claim I never replied!
When i asked him to write written justification he never did so
That is literally the only thing we've ever been talking about. My very first post in this thread details why I think Distortion is justified. You can't ignore that and then demand that I grovel before your feet and offer up a 14-page written essay of why Distortion should stay, while arguing only from your perspective, and trying to construct this reason only from your opinions. Because apparently anything that refutes you, you will either pretend doesn't exist, or call 'non-civil'.
You keep shifting the boundaries of the discussion further and further onto your own turf in an effort to take control of it. Like I'm some kind of monkey that's supposed to dance for your entertainment. Do you want a 'Here you go master, if it pleases the master' to go with it?
but the fact you called that a civil discussion is outside the bounds of reality im sorry it just is
He was specifically referencing to my civility, not the civility of the overall discussion. And initially I was of the opinion that I wasn't being as civil as I might have liked.
But I've changed my mind.
In comparison to you, I have been nothing short of a saint.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747765#Comment_3747765
Playing ring-around-the-rosy with a killer is going to be significantly easier if survivors don't keep getting lit up like christmas trees. That doesn't mean 'make the survivor impossible to find'. It just means 'Don't let a single perk do ALL the work for the killer and make stealth flatly impossible'.
Initially Im all ears was not the issue now its chasing that's the issue.
Boldly: No.
You are wrong.
Except Distortion already blocked aura reading before then.
Yes and im saying its effective erasal of certain perks being able to be used on you is the issue. I did not do that back then before stacks regenerated.
You refuse to listen. You refuse to consider any viewpoint other than your own. Over the course of this thread, I have explained to you repeatedly that Distortion is not the problem here. I have taken down every argument you've tossed out multiple times. I've been engaging with you the entire time, and all you've done is say 'waffle'. Like a kid plugging their ears.
You can't backup what you say so you dont. your views have bent according to what you could say to defend the perk
look here
you said this earlier
You correctly identified that I'm All Ears is NOT one of the problem perks as it serves a different function.
Chasing not an issue with aura for you now
Playing ring-around-the-rosy with a killer is going to be significantly easier if survivors don't keep getting lit up like christmas trees.
Also
That's not a selfish perk, it's a selfish player.
Then right after you say distortion does not encourage it while you also said
They can run a playstyle that is -that- selfish without the use of Distortion by just sitting in the locker all day.
So the downside those players face gets erased and its not considered something that encourages them to play like that
waffle YOU JUST WAFFLE
Then you say
You refuse to consider any viewpoint other than your own.
You do not hold any consistent viewpoints other than "i like the perk" thats it.
But when you give one out as inconsistent as they are could you please do me a favour try to back them up partially at least.
Edit: dont bother replying this is a waste of time. Im not replying to you again.
You are never going to be convinced and your views bend like a palm tree.
Initially Im all ears was not the issue now its chasing that's the issue.
What I am referring to with ring-around-the-rosy is moving around an LoS-blocker to keep it between survivor and killer so the survivor doesn't get found. Which you could have reasonably inferred from the context, but I think I might know why you didn't.
You are wrong.
There's that strong argumentation again. 'Just no'.
Imma snap back with an unbeatable: 'Actually yes'.
Yes and im saying its effective erasal of certain perks being able to be used on you is the issue.
And you haven't engaged with the fact that the perks that get 'blocked' by this do the same thing.
your views have bent according to what you could say to defend the perk
You misinterpreting what I mean by 'ring-around-the-rosy' is not 'my view bending'.
It's not like I went
"You can avoid those perks without distortion"
"How?"
"You don't need to, they're never picked"
"But they ARE picked."
"I never said they're never picked"
"But you did, though."
"…"
"Well you can just avoid them without distortion"
I wish this was an exaggeration, but it's really not. It's an accurate summation of how that conversation went. And it's also bringing to mind that, once again, you take my criticism of you and attempt to apply it to me, which is why you take this misunderstanding to mean I am referring to these perks being used in chase. You are chomping at the bit to pull this stunt.
So the downside those players face gets erased and its not considered something that encourages them to play like that
No, think about it for a bit more.
You say that Distortion enables a selfish playstyle. I point out that they don't need Distortion for this, and the only difference Distortion makes, is that the playstyle becomes less selfish. Therefor, Distortion isn't enabling a selfish playstyle, it's making it non-selfish.
Then you go 'AHA! So it removes a downside! That means it encourages it!'
But that doesn't fly when the downside it removes is the entire objection to the playstyle in question.
dont bother replying this is a waste of time. Im not replying to you again.
You are never going to be convinced and your views bend like a palm tree.
Alright, have a nice life. Just know that if you keep talking about this matter, I will continue to refute you. You being done with this discussion does not mean I'm not going to contest your views in a public sphere.
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@Unusedkillername said:
If that killer has NTH, or Floods of Rage, or any of the perks we've been talking about, it IS impossible. NO killer is going to miss the bright red outline that'll serve as their handy-dandy 1-step guide to finding your exact location.
If it goes off next to you (which floods won't 9/10 time because of its conditions) and NTH is somewhere i agree goes to far and have from the start. It was in the big list i would have nerfed at the start.
'Just' is not an argument, despite your many attempts to use it as such. We've been over this and you were forced to walk that back when you realised that you can't, as you switched tactics to 'It's not a problem because these perks are never picked'. (Which you then also tried to claim you hadn't said)
I become more and more convinced you just cannot play the game. If you cannot avoid ever being chased have never faked your running direction when aura proceed or guestimated an aura perk please just stop posting at the point and I really hate to say this because whenever this comes up in a argument on the forums it looks pompous but…
It comes down to a skill issue. You can do these things.
It's a good thing you said 'if' because you know full well that's not what I've been talking about.
THEN WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
You have said its impossible to hide from the killer, that without distortion a playstyle is erased i am assuming that playstyle means never being found dude because you are talking in extremes then saying
"look how dishonest this guy is good thing you said if"
waffle waffle waffle.
That's not a selfish perk, it's a selfish player. They can run a playstyle that is -that- selfish without the use of Distortion by just sitting in the locker all day. At least with Distortion, there's a chance they'll be doing gens or healing.
- it's easier to change perks than players
- Does distortion enable it?
Distortion preceded both Shattered Hope and Languid Touch.
Shattered hope was added to the game in the patch before distortions rework.
You can't just copy my criticism of you and hope it sticks, bud. I've been responding to pretty much everything you say, while you missed several of my points.
You have not.
read your last response in this post that was factually not just an incorrect reply herehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BQ80HNDDVKEZ/capture-png.png
Thats not addressing that's dismissing. You dont want to hear something then you blow it off.
You are asked what justifies distortions' existence and you say its the only thing that enables a specific "playstyle" or that Aura perks need nerfing.
waffle.
If it goes off next to you (which floods won't 9/10 time because of its conditions)
It doesn't need to be 'next to you', that thing is global and lasts seven seconds. If the killer is roughly 15 seconds away from you, this perk will still get you caught. Anything less than that just makes it easier. That's not 'next to you'.
If you cannot avoid ever being chased have never faked your running direction when aura proceed
That works against BBQ because that perk specifically demands that the killer be sufficiently far from you to allow you time to misdirect. This is a limitation NONE of the other perks have.
or guestimated an aura perk
Knowing a perk is in play doesn't mean you can work around it. Knowing there's a Floods of Rage in play doesn't mean you can do anything about it pinging you when it fires.
You dropped this argument before because you realised it was untenable, why pick it back up?
You have said its impossible to hide from the killer, that without distortion a playstyle is erased i am assuming that playstyle means never being found
Playing ring-around-the-rosy with a killer is going to be significantly easier if survivors don't keep getting lit up like christmas trees. That doesn't mean 'make the survivor impossible to find'. It just means 'Don't let a single perk do ALL the work for the killer and make stealth flatly impossible'.
It's perfectly fine to get caught. Just not by wallhacks. There needs to be a chance to play this style out, and the aura reading power-creep has buried that. That's why Distortion is needed.
Does distortion enable it?
Boldly: No. The only thing Distortion does is make it easier to contribute to the team while keeping stealth on the table as an option. If the survivors aren't contributing at all, Distortion isn't doing anything for them that a locker couldn't do.
Shattered hope was added to the game in the patch before distortions rework.
Except Distortion already blocked aura reading before then.
Thats not addressing that's dismissing.
Because we've been over this so many times!
You refuse to listen. You refuse to consider any viewpoint other than your own. Over the course of this thread, I have explained to you repeatedly that Distortion is not the problem here. I have taken down every argument you've tossed out multiple times. I've been engaging with you the entire time, and all you've done is say 'waffle'. Like a kid plugging their ears.
Any of the arguments you have levelled at why Distortion ostensibly requires a nerf does not stand up to scrutiny. I've been dismantling every single one of them and you have the gall to say 'you have not justified Distortion's existence' when I've been doing nothing but.
It is incredibly disingenuous to disregard everything I've said and jump to such a conclusion and I find it frankly disrespectful.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747393#Comment_3747393
Yes, as a matter of fact, because it supports the argument I've been holding from the very start. If you want to play with the stealth aspect of the game, you -need- Distortion. You tried to refuse that claim, and now you've had to walk it back.
The fact that this entire gameplay style is dependent on Distortion is enough to justify it.
There is an entire assumption here it is impossible to be not found by a killer if you don't have it.
You can avoid the killer. You just can.
Equally, if you are saying it's impossible to go forever undetected if you don't have it then I would say going forever undetected deprives the killer of an element of gameplay WAY more so than aura perks deprive survivors of being able to hide from killer killers and if the killer decides to never bother to chase you on the assumption it's just not worth looking for you, checking the gen with no one on it or just assumes 2nd and 3rd hooking you would be too much hassle it puts the entire responsibility of holding the killer on your team. Hence why as this thread is named its a selfish perk and
It also is just unhealthy and it plays into what I see dbd slowly becoming where perks are being wheeled out as counters and solutions to perks that part of the playerbase sees as a problem rather than nerfing perks because the balanceing is kinda cowardly and too concerned with player feedback which has often left the S tier perks staying at the same level of power for years on end.
Its like how perks like how languid touch does nothing but apply exhaustion, a status effect meant to turn off specifc perks, or how shattered hope was supposed to be the answer to boon perks a while ago because distortion does a similar thing to both of these perks by just making a type of perk just not work on you. That's all it does and it makes it so what you bring into what the other side brings is becoming ever more important.
Distortion is just a terrible perk for the game, following a terrible precedent that has never been good.
Thats why is bad, selfish and should be changed like many other perk that have their own issue.
I have done plenty to justify its existence. You just failed to engage with any of it.
You have not justified it every time i quote something and write a reply ive engaged with it you just ignore anything of relevants so who is not engaging.
There is an entire assumption here it is impossible to be not found by a killer if you don't have it.
If that killer has NTH, or Floods of Rage, or any of the perks we've been talking about, it IS impossible. NO killer is going to miss the bright red outline that'll serve as their handy-dandy 1-step guide to finding your exact location.
You can avoid the killer. You just can.
'Just' is not an argument, despite your many attempts to use it as such. We've been over this and you were forced to walk that back when you realised that you can't, as you switched tactics to 'It's not a problem because these perks are never picked'. (Which you then also tried to claim you hadn't said)
Equally, if you are saying it's impossible to go forever undetected
It's a good thing you said 'if' because you know full well that's not what I've been talking about.
if the killer decides to never bother to chase you on the assumption it's just not worth looking for you, checking the gen with no one on it or just assumes 2nd and 3rd hooking you would be too much hassle it puts the entire responsibility of holding the killer on your team. Hence why as this thread is named its a selfish perk
That's not a selfish perk, it's a selfish player. They can run a playstyle that is -that- selfish without the use of Distortion by just sitting in the locker all day. At least with Distortion, there's a chance they'll be doing gens or healing.
It also is just unhealthy and it plays into what I see dbd slowly becoming where perks are being wheeled out as counters and solutions to perks that part of the playerbase sees as a problem rather than nerfing perks because the balanceing is kinda cowardly and too concerned with player feedback which has often left the S tier perks staying at the same level of power for years on end.
Its like how perks like how languid touch does nothing but apply exhaustion, a status effect meant to turn off specifc perks, or how shattered hope was supposed to be the answer to boon perks a while ago because distortion does a similar thing to both of these perks by just making a type of perk just not work on you. That's all it does and it makes it so what you bring into what the other side brings is becoming ever more important.
And hey look: Shattered Hope did not receive any changes, and yet is completely superfluous because boons were annihilated.
So if you want to 'fix' Distortion, nerf aura reading.
Distortion is just a terrible perk for the game, following a terrible precedent that has never been good.
Distortion preceded both Shattered Hope and Languid Touch.
You have not justified it every time i quote something and write a reply ive engaged with it you just ignore anything of relevants so who is not engaging.
You can't just copy my criticism of you and hope it sticks, bud. I've been responding to pretty much everything you say, while you missed several of my points.
I have given you plenty of reasons why Distortion deserves to exist. I've explained multiple times the importance of Distortion and its place in the game. You may not like the gameplay that Distortion protects, but you don't get to unilaterally decide to cut off a fundamental part of DBD's experience.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747250#Comment_3747250
That's moving the goalpost.
You stated that there's no aura reading perk you can't adapt to, and when I highlight a number of perks that a solo survivor cannot avoid, you switch to 'well, they're rare picks so who cares?'.
Doesn't change that these perks invalidate stealth and the associated perks. You said you could adapt to it, so adapt to it. Killer has Floods of Rage, or Darkness Revealed, or any other intel perk. How do you adapt to it?
yes it is you win the argument that you cannot counter a bad killer running a bad perk on that killer.
Do you still think that really justifies distortion?
it does not.
I made one mistake, it does not validate your overall point so its not quite the burn you thinkActing like this is some 'stars align' thing is really disingenuous too. These perks don't have bad pick-rates and are decently high up on the list.
On the killers they are used you can still counter them the stars align point if for when you cant because its on a killer that its bad on and therefore its unforeseeable.
This kicks your argument in the shins too, buddy. How can Distortion be a problem if these aura reading perks are never picked?
I never said they are not picked I said they are bad.
Because they are… you get better results bringing slowdown and until slowdown is nerfed to the strongest aura perks level they will still be weak but picked because people do not like looking for survivors. It's the only reason I run them it cuts out the least fun part of the game at the expense of running a weaker build but then there is a perk that punishes you for doing that. When want to win a game for whatever reason I run full slowdown.
Its a dumb perk and nothing you have said has proven me wrong on this after days of posting. If you have a silver bullet use it because i am getting fed up of this waffle. I am rudely calling your posts waffle because unlike rulebreaker I don't really have to think that hard about dbd to write these replies hence my one slipup statement that even then does not prove your point because you are trying to justify the existence of a perk that turns off aura reading buy using 3 low tier aura perk of example so I don't think you have played both roles enough or understand dbd well enough.
I will only reply one more time because you still have not justified distortions existence which is what i keep bringing up
Do you still think that really justifies distortion?
Yes, as a matter of fact, because it supports the argument I've been holding from the very start. If you want to play with the stealth aspect of the game, you -need- Distortion. You tried to refuse that claim, and now you've had to walk it back.
The fact that this entire gameplay style is dependent on Distortion is enough to justify it.
On the killers they are used you can still counter them
Except you can't. I thought you realised that by now.
I never said they are not picked I said they are bad.
'Scuse you?
@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747204#Comment_3747204
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747196#Comment_3747196
I've replied to both of you in one post because i dont feel like splittng it also each quote is not in order so some of ampersandunderscores replies may be above or below Firellius and vice verse but im not going to reorder it all sorry.
I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.
Words the line above or below stop saying "i said this" when you have not yet it was nerfed you mat have said that but we are clearly talking about the game as is so talk about it as is.
You DON'T know when Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed, or Ultimate Weapon are going to proc. So if you want to locker-dodge those, you're going to be spending the entire match in a locker, bud. Did you think this through?
BBQ has a very distinct tell. The killer picks up the survivor and it's very clear they're going to hook them. You can head to a locker when they pick up, and wait inside for a bit after they hook. This was literally meta before 6.1, so I've done this hundreds of times.
You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks you so dont assume killers are using them that it. Why do you assume the killer has BBQ when you get in a locker. Because its used or their gameplay has indicated they have it.
Say if every time a huntress reloads (which is how darkness revealed is mostly used) if they start going towards someone near as if their aura is revealed you know what they have.
You also don't need to avoid your aura being seen all the time because they are not strong perks. It's really that simple.
These are nowhere near the 'same as BBQ'. Pretending they are means you either never play survivor, are being completely disingenuous, or possibly both at the same time.
You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now the ways its used make it obvious. (mainly by huntress and trickesters having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren
https://youtu.be/i3TWBPD1i5w?t=15
Its more about the first part of his rant you dont need to account for all the uses on killer the perks are hot garbage on.
The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.
Solo q is just screwed by floods of rage because there's literally no way to communicate that someone is 'unhooking now'.
Lots of things screw over solo Q like regression as people cannot prevent other people gens from regressing as they dont know what gens people were on. Its such a well of things you would need to post for days to get the bottom of this well so lets not i know how it ends the best soloution against a perfect team becomes, to stack regression, slow down the game, and try to get a 3 gen as is the same against an unorganised team.
6 times? How'd you get to that number?
Each player can only be unhooked up to 2 times you can only get 6 procs because they cannot unhook a dead suv.
6 times is the max it can proc and you will likely get 4 or 5 if you play for it but if you are unlucky you may only get 1 or 2.
The perk is hot garbage when you consider not all the procs are useful as the unhooking suv sets it off so the killer does not always get it at a good time. For some killers like pyramid head its good on because the reveals translate into wallbangs but its a pretty trash perk on anyone else.
If a pyramid head hits a wallbang right after a unhook he likely has it then you need to play around it if you can. Most other killers its trash on and does not justify distrions existence because of how bad and situational it is
edit after all this i realised i typed 6 not 8 im a ######### moron but the point stands its garbage
typed 6
You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks
You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now
having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren
The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.
You seem to have forgotten that that is exactly what you said amidst your flurry of throwing things at the wall to see if something sticks.
it cuts out the least fun part of the game
Least fun for you, perhaps. But there's others to account for too. I enjoy stealth. Why do you get to bring a perk that disables my playstyle and my perks, but I can't bring a perk to protect me from that?
Its a dumb perk and nothing you have said has proven me wrong on this after days of posting.
Except everything I've said.
I will only reply one more time because you still have not justified distortions existence which is what i keep bringing up
I have done plenty to justify its existence. You just failed to engage with any of it.
Hell, even YOU have done some work to justify its existence. After all, if massive aura reading powercreep is just 'the game going a direction', then Distortion being in the game similarly justifies its own existence.
It's just the game going a direction.
Just not a direction you, specifically, like.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747204#Comment_3747204
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747196#Comment_3747196
I've replied to both of you in one post because i dont feel like splittng it also each quote is not in order so some of ampersandunderscores replies may be above or below Firellius and vice verse but im not going to reorder it all sorry.
I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.
Words the line above or below stop saying "i said this" when you have not yet it was nerfed you mat have said that but we are clearly talking about the game as is so talk about it as is.
You DON'T know when Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed, or Ultimate Weapon are going to proc. So if you want to locker-dodge those, you're going to be spending the entire match in a locker, bud. Did you think this through?
BBQ has a very distinct tell. The killer picks up the survivor and it's very clear they're going to hook them. You can head to a locker when they pick up, and wait inside for a bit after they hook. This was literally meta before 6.1, so I've done this hundreds of times.
You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks you so dont assume killers are using them that it. Why do you assume the killer has BBQ when you get in a locker. Because its used or their gameplay has indicated they have it.
Say if every time a huntress reloads (which is how darkness revealed is mostly used) if they start going towards someone near as if their aura is revealed you know what they have.
You also don't need to avoid your aura being seen all the time because they are not strong perks. It's really that simple.
These are nowhere near the 'same as BBQ'. Pretending they are means you either never play survivor, are being completely disingenuous, or possibly both at the same time.
You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now the ways its used make it obvious. (mainly by huntress and trickesters having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren
https://youtu.be/i3TWBPD1i5w?t=15
Its more about the first part of his rant you dont need to account for all the uses on killer the perks are hot garbage on.
The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.
Solo q is just screwed by floods of rage because there's literally no way to communicate that someone is 'unhooking now'.
Lots of things screw over solo Q like regression as people cannot prevent other people gens from regressing as they dont know what gens people were on. Its such a well of things you would need to post for days to get the bottom of this well so lets not i know how it ends the best soloution against a perfect team becomes, to stack regression, slow down the game, and try to get a 3 gen as is the same against an unorganised team.
6 times? How'd you get to that number?
Each player can only be unhooked up to 2 times you can only get 6 procs because they cannot unhook a dead suv.
6 times is the max it can proc and you will likely get 4 or 5 if you play for it but if you are unlucky you may only get 1 or 2.
The perk is hot garbage when you consider not all the procs are useful as the unhooking suv sets it off so the killer does not always get it at a good time. For some killers like pyramid head its good on because the reveals translate into wallbangs but its a pretty trash perk on anyone else.
If a pyramid head hits a wallbang right after a unhook he likely has it then you need to play around it if you can. Most other killers its trash on and does not justify distrions existence because of how bad and situational it is
edit after all this i realised i typed 6 not 8 im a ######### moron but the point stands its garbage
typed 6
You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks you so dont assume killers are using them that it. Why do you assume the killer has BBQ when you get in a locker. Because its used or their gameplay has indicated they have it.
That's moving the goalpost.
You stated that there's no aura reading perk you can't adapt to, and when I highlight a number of perks that a solo survivor cannot avoid, you switch to 'well, they're rare picks so who cares?'.
Doesn't change that these perks invalidate stealth and the associated perks. You said you could adapt to it, so adapt to it. Killer has Floods of Rage, or Darkness Revealed, or any other intel perk. How do you adapt to it?
You also don't need to avoid your aura being seen all the time because they are not strong perks. It's really that simple.
Because just taking it face-on is not 'adapting' to it.
You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now the ways its used make it obvious. (mainly by huntress and trickesters having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren
Acting like this is some 'stars align' thing is really disingenuous too. These perks don't have bad pick-rates and are decently high up on the list.
The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.
This kicks your argument in the shins too, buddy. How can Distortion be a problem if these aura reading perks are never picked? Remember that Distortion does nothing without aura reading. So if no one is picking aura reading, why are people picking up Distortion?
Could it, perchance, be that these perks are not nearly as rare as you make them out to be?
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747177#Comment_3747177
That's the point I'm making with regards to Distortion. If you eliminate Distortion, it's not just 'moving away' from stealth. It's annihilating it in its entirety.
It is not.
I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.
Its the same way you deal with BBQ. The exact same way you have no problem with…
Which works against BBQ & Chili, because the survivors get advance warning of when it is about to fire
Also you talking about Floods of rage -
The only one that has a condition that is -somewhat- outside the normal game loop is Floods of Rage, and that just depends on hook distribution.
It can only be used 6 times max and hook distribution plays a part in that potentially being lower and survivors determine when it gets set off, So I would be willing to let that be an exception.
And if your whole argument for justifying distortions existence is to say look at Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon Your argument does not work its cooked all 3 of these perks are bad. Unless used on specific killers that synergise with them.
Also, Ultimate weapon does not reveal your aura, it is not an aura perk. I don't think you know what you are talking about this is waffle and does not make sense.
Its the same way you deal with BBQ. The exact same way you have no problem with…
Locker-hopping works for BBQ for a very simple reason: You know when BBQ is coming.
You DON'T know when Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed, or Ultimate Weapon are going to proc. So if you want to locker-dodge those, you're going to be spending the entire match in a locker, bud. Did you think this through?
It can only be used 6 times max and hook distribution plays a part in that potentially being lower and survivors determine when it gets set off, So I would be willing to let that be an exception.
6 times? How'd you get to that number?
Also, no: Survivors, plural, don't get to decide that. Someone on the team makes the unhook and the others have to deal with it happening. Unless they are a swiffer on comms, the others won't know.
And if your whole argument for justifying distortions existence is to say look at Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon Your argument does not work its cooked all 3 of these perks are bad. Unless used on specific killers that synergise with them.
Are they bad, or do you not know how they work?
Also, Ultimate weapon does not reveal your aura, it is not an aura perk. I don't think you know what you are talking about this is waffle and does not make sense.
It did for about a month. I also clarified that it had already been nerfed.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747129#Comment_3747129
I already did. You skipped it.
You have not listed them say the boogiemen perks if saying
The only one that has a condition that is -somewhat- outside the normal game loop is Floods of Rage
and therefore i am assuming you have an issue with the rest of them like
friends to the end
Nurses calling
awakened awareness
Bitter murmur
lethal pursuer
Nowhere to hide
Darkness revealed
Gearhead
hex undying at a stretch
I'm sorry your wrong and I think you know that and are avoiding making a list like this because of it. I understand wanting to bring stuff like NTH in line but you are just wrong.
Having your aura revealed is completely fine as long as the conditions are foreseeable and there is no aura perk you cannot adjust to playing around within a regular game (without distortion)
Loads of people do still tend to pick up intel perks over extra regression perks, so no, they are not universally weaker than/stronger than.
They just are not.
Yes, there may be no point to bring surge on Hillbilly or Nurse because they don't proc the perk but regression perks are stronger than aura perks. I'm not going to say that's my opinion because they just are.
You have no evidence that chases are what kept the game afloat all this time. That is a decision -you- made.
It has a lot to do with licences to be honest, Rulebreaker was right about that but this game does not survive without the gameplay loop that was accidentally created from chases.
You can say that is a decision I made but it is just true.
You, personally, not caring about stealth does not mean no one else does
It has a place in the game i have said its less important I did not say its not something i care about, i play surviver do you think i just greed every gen and run up to every killer?
You should be able to lose someone in chase if they are not paying attention. You should have the ability to rotate around a rock when the killer is on the other side (its probably a point NTH goes a step to far) you should not be exempt from all aura reading.
You claim that the game has 'moved away' from having stealth as an option, but that is clearly at odds with the fact that Distortion exists.
This game use to primarily be about not being seen by the killer now it is about not being caught by the killer you say things like
You act as though stealth and chase are mutually exclusive, as if Distortion makes it physically impossible for a survivor to be found, or to be chased. That's the case.
But moveing away from something does not mean its abandoned it entirely.
Assassin's Creed has moved away from parkour being as important as in previous entries with Valhalla and Odyssey it doesn't mean when there is a building you just can every climb it.
But when an obvious condition is fulfilled with the aura perks I listed above you get your aura revealed.You have not listed them say the boogiemen perks if saying
You could've just looked back through the thread to find the post I'm referring to, instead of doubling down.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745248#Comment_3745248
say actual perks
say the perks
Say the perks. There are none.
You already mentioned Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, and Floods of Rage. You correctly identified that I'm All Ears is NOT one of the problem perks as it serves a different function. There's also Weave Attunement and Friends 'Til the End. Ultimate Weapon can also be counted, though it has already been solidly nerfed, but then also retains its problematic aspect.
If these perks were not problems, Distortion wouldn't be, either.
Almost all these aura perks are at the level of power other perks should be at Floods of rage, friends to the end and alien instinct are at the average level that a perk should be.
No, they aren't. They are disabling a wide swath of survivor perks, killing off a playstyle, and automatically completing a task for the killer, and no, none of them have a requirement high enough to justify it.
In reality, they are simply too strong. BBQ & Chili is in a good spot, still strong enough to warrant picking up, but it doesn't come close to its newer cousins in terms of impact, as BBQ is specifically designed NOT to completely trivialise the task of finding survivors.
These killer perks are amputating a part of the game. Distortion merely restores it.
Distortion however doesn't just counter those perks like an overwatch hero with a good matchup it prevents them from being used on you
Yes, on YOU specifically. Distortion has to be picked by all four in order for these perks to be truly and fully countered. One Distortion doesn't do that. It weakens it, sure, but it doesn't block the entire perk.
And if you pick more than one aura reading perk, the problem described before gets intensified, and will need a counter even more. Additionally, if all your perks are tailored towards one specific goal, you run the risk of that goal being undermined. No different than running a full swath of healing perks into a Plague or Legion.
Yeah, it sucks. But it's how the game fundamentally works. Varied builds don't run these risks.
No people assumed like you that i did not want them nerfed…
No, people assumed that you didn't -care-.
Having your aura revealed is completely fine as long as the conditions are foreseeable and there is no aura perk you cannot adjust to playing around within a regular game (without distortion)
I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.
Yes, there may be no point to bring surge on Hillbilly or Nurse because they don't proc the perk but regression perks are stronger than aura perks. I'm not going to say that's my opinion because they just are.
With all due respect, if you're going to dig your heels in like this, there's no point in you talking on these forums.
You can say that is a decision I made but it is just true.
As evidenced by what?
You should have the ability to rotate around a rock when the killer is on the other side (its probably a point NTH goes a step to far)
Except it's not just NTH, is it?
But moveing away from something does not mean its abandoned it entirely.
That's the point I'm making with regards to Distortion. If you eliminate Distortion, it's not just 'moving away' from stealth. It's annihilating it in its entirety.
If you want the game to retain stealth, you're going to have to live with Distortion. If you want Distortion kneecapped, then you have to be honest and not hide the reality in flowery language.
Also also, you're failing to engage with the fact that Distortion is in the game and is therefor, itself, an argument against the game having 'moved away' from stealth.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746825#Comment_3746825
Name the perks.
Don't just say not floods of rage, name them.
I don't think people agree with you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
The same could be said when I use Nightlight to say regression and gen defense perks are way stronger than most killer perks but we all know it is just true.
That's not the argument.
Here is the argument i gave to rulebreaker i just did not want to type it again.
The chase is the only reason this game has lived as long as it has. It may only be a part but it may as well be the whole thing because if dbd was a car the chase would be the engine, the seats, the wheels, and the frame while the stealth would be the windscreen wipers.
If chases stopped happening consistently because every stealth perk was buffed to the moon or every pallet or window got removed the game would die immediately. That's not an exaggeration
Then they made their point and this was my next reply
I'm not convinced this game survives without stumbling onto the gameplay loop it did with its chases (which was 100% accidental) If stealth was just erased from the game with basekit things that gave killers survivor locations every kinda like old Freddy on every killer (I'm coming up with the most ridiculous example that should never happen on purpose i don't actually think this should happen) I think the game would still have a player base, many players would leave but I don't think the game would die. Yea the windscreen wiper analogy may have been a bit extreme but honestly. I think it is true, the chase and stealth part of this game are not equally as important as each other
The game has leaned away from what it originally was and into the gameplay loop they accidentally created that has kept this game alive and replayable for years.
Name the perks.
I already did. You skipped it.
The same could be said when I use Nightlight to say regression and gen defense perks are way stronger than most killer perks but we all know it is just true.
Except apparently, it's not entirely true. Loads of people do still tend to pick up intel perks over extra regression perks, so no, they are not universally weaker than/stronger than.
Here is the argument i gave to rulebreaker i just did not want to type it again.
A quick breakdown of your argument:
A) You have no evidence that chases are what kept the game afloat all this time. That is a decision -you- made.
B) You, personally, not caring about stealth does not mean no one else does.
C) You act as though stealth and chase are mutually exclusive, as if Distortion makes it physically impossible for a survivor to be found, or to be chased. That's the case.
D) You claim that the game has 'moved away' from having stealth as an option, but that is clearly at odds with the fact that Distortion exists.
In short, you are projecting your personal opinion on the entirety of the game, you're thinking without nuance, and then you cherry pick parts of the game you like and call the rest 'broken'.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746207#Comment_3746207
This is, again, the paradigm shift, where the killer is apparently entitled to have access to a survivor's exact location 24/7. Any disruption to this then suddenly becomes the survivor's fault, rather than the fault of perks that are obviously overtuned.
They have conditions!!!
BBQ doesn't show people within 40m and only procs after an unhook. The only 2 I concede should have changes have conditions that are too easy to activate ie kick a gen for nth or lethal but even then lethal is a bit of a one trick pony perk and the only actual issue i have with it is the 4 second extension potentially breaking future perk.
I don't think you have even considered their conditions and just see them as free. #
Also lockers exist.
They just are not as good as the actual good perks that slow the game down.
Friends til the end is nowhere near S tier it's not even A tier, same with BBQ,
Yes their is a paradigm shift and the game has change but they are also just not as good and none of them justify a perk like distortion. Both of these things are trueI have a problem with perks that completely disable the opportunity for stealth. BBQ & Chili doesn't, nor does I'm All Ears. But the newer perks all lobotomise gameplay and have created a new baseline
So nth the thing I said I understand nerfing and lethal are the "newer perks"
But nothing else applies Friend til the end is not good and…. that's is really it.
You need to specifically say the perks because to my mind these aura boogiemen perks don't exist.
So when killers get new perks that invalidate an entire survivor playstyle and a large number of perks, the game has simply 'gone in a direction'
BECAUSE IT HAS.
when I started playing dbd on October 28th 2017. It was a different game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EPXIX70L3IX8/capture-png.png
also name these aura boogiemen perks that don't exist.
Even with NTH and Lethal distortions existence is not justified making every aura perk not work on you is a bad perk and its sucks to play against and sucks to play with people using maliciously.
They have conditions!!!
The only one that has a condition that is -somewhat- outside the normal game loop is Floods of Rage, and that just depends on hook distribution. These conditions aren't weighty enough to justify removing a component of gameplay.
Also lockers exist.
Which works against BBQ & Chili, because the survivors get advance warning of when it is about to fire.
It doesn't work for any of the other perks.
They just are not as good as the actual good perks that slow the game down.
I don't think people agree with you, considering Nightlight registers Lethal Pursuer as third most picked perk, BBQ & Chili as 4th, and Nowhere to Hide as 6th. The only perks that beat out the first two are Pop and Pain Res, and the 5th place spot is taken by Corrupt Intervention. So it would seem that a lot of people are picking intel perks over regression perks.
BECAUSE IT HAS.
That's not the argument.
If you can claim that killer perks removing a bunch of survivor gameplay and perks is just 'the game going a direction', you're going to have to explain why that same logic does NOT apply to Distortion's impact on the game.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745510#Comment_3745510
Yes, on YOU specifically. Distortion has to be picked by all four in order for these perks to be truly and fully countered. One Distortion doesn't do that. It weakens it, sure, but it doesn't block the entire perk.
Saying there are other players to go for therefore distortion is ok doesn't work because if say 2 players have to take all the pressure because the killer is running something like bbq and lethal and he just wants to take the shortest route they will ping pong between them, the best way to win right now easily is to ping pong between 2 players on a lot of killers it is not good.
You already mentioned Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, and Floods of Rage. You correctly identified that I'm All Ears is NOT one of the problem perks as it serves a different function. There's also Weave Attunement and Friends 'Til the End. Ultimate Weapon can also be counted, though it has already been solidly nerfed, but then also retains its problematic aspect.
Do you just have a problem with perks that reveal you?
The game has gone in a direction where if they don't they would be useless im never going to be running wispers or spies ever over something like surge, pain res, deadlock or even brutal strength. Edit (NTH is the exception its out of line with the other aura perks i want it nerfed)
The game has gone in a direction where looking for players is secondary to chasing them so as long as you fulfil the condition, you get aura.
Distortion existence in its current state makes the game worse for the people who are not using it and for killer using the perks in counters furthering the gap between the detection perks and the top perks its existence is not justifiable within this context.
Saying there are other players to go for therefore distortion is ok doesn't work because if say 2 players have to take all the pressure because the killer is running something like bbq and lethal and he just wants to take the shortest route they will ping pong between them, the best way to win right now easily is to ping pong between 2 players on a lot of killers it is not good.
A) The killer doesn't need Distortion to do that. Excessive aura reading is a great tool for tunnelling, with or without Distortion.
B) This is, again, the paradigm shift, where the killer is apparently entitled to have access to a survivor's exact location 24/7. Any disruption to this then suddenly becomes the survivor's fault, rather than the fault of perks that are obviously overtuned.
C) This is a user problem, not a perk problem. No amount of Distortion is going to allow you to ignore me if I'm on 0 chases and my teammates are on death hook.
Do you just have a problem with perks that reveal you?
I have a problem with perks that completely disable the opportunity for stealth. BBQ & Chili doesn't, nor does I'm All Ears. But the newer perks all lobotomise gameplay and have created a new baseline, and now when a perk defies that new baseline, -it- takes the brunt of the complaints, rather than the perks that powercreeped out the wazoo.
The game has gone in a direction
So when killers get new perks that invalidate an entire survivor playstyle and a large number of perks, the game has simply 'gone in a direction'…
But when survivors get a perk that restores that playstyle and weakens a large number of perks, that's 'broken' and 'making the game worse', and it's existence is 'not justifiable'?
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745212#Comment_3745212
If you want to nerf Distortion, one of the ways to do it is by harshly nerfing the aura reading perks that make it function.
nerfing nth or lethal is not nerfing distortion and I'm on the boat with doing both beyond that what are you going to suggest nerfing?
say actual perks because even I struggle to see many that need it.
It feels like you're appealing to a sort of organic shift in the game's playstyle as a justification for the existence of the newer aura perks, but I have to mirror that to Distortion. Why is the aura reading powercreep an organic change, but not Distortion?
say the perks, floods of rage? Im all ears I can get behind just because of how it works on nurse but that's not about detection it's related to chase so im not sure thats what you are talking about.
In short, Distortion wouldn't be a problem if these killer perks didn't amputate a solid chunk of DBD's gameplay.
Say the perks. Type xyz perk is op and justifies distortions existence or something along those lines.
There are none.
Almost all these aura perks are at the level of power other perks should be at Floods of rage, friends to the end and alien instinct are at the average level that a perk should be.
Distortion has no innate value, and is ultimately reflective of the prevalence and power of the perks it counters. As they go up, so does Distortion.
Distortion however doesn't just counter those perks like an overwatch hero with a good matchup it prevents them from being used on you the more of them the killer has the stronger it is unless your aura is being revealed 247 at which point they have brought a bad build.
edit forgot to say this
Well, they couldn't. Not -before- you placed your opening post. Your opening post set the topic of discussion, and it put a magnifying glass on the survivors' stuff.
Your tone was very disinterested when it came to the killer perks. Barely a mention. People are going to assume that what you want to talk about is the thing you actually do talk about.
No people assumed like you that i did not want them nerfed… and that i was someone throwing a stone in a glass house by calling out someone's attuited to survivor perks vs killer perks
Also it just takes more posts to explain why the suv perks need to be nerfed because the best suv perks dont share many properties like the best killer perks do when it comes to keeping gens up.
Exhaustions strength has nothing to do with distortion which also has nothing to do with OTR for example but pop, pain res and even perks like deadlock do the same thing in different ways (keep specific gens in play)
say actual perks
say the perks
Say the perks. There are none.
You already mentioned Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, and Floods of Rage. You correctly identified that I'm All Ears is NOT one of the problem perks as it serves a different function. There's also Weave Attunement and Friends 'Til the End. Ultimate Weapon can also be counted, though it has already been solidly nerfed, but then also retains its problematic aspect.
If these perks were not problems, Distortion wouldn't be, either.
Almost all these aura perks are at the level of power other perks should be at Floods of rage, friends to the end and alien instinct are at the average level that a perk should be.
No, they aren't. They are disabling a wide swath of survivor perks, killing off a playstyle, and automatically completing a task for the killer, and no, none of them have a requirement high enough to justify it.
In reality, they are simply too strong. BBQ & Chili is in a good spot, still strong enough to warrant picking up, but it doesn't come close to its newer cousins in terms of impact, as BBQ is specifically designed NOT to completely trivialise the task of finding survivors.
These killer perks are amputating a part of the game. Distortion merely restores it.
Distortion however doesn't just counter those perks like an overwatch hero with a good matchup it prevents them from being used on you
Yes, on YOU specifically. Distortion has to be picked by all four in order for these perks to be truly and fully countered. One Distortion doesn't do that. It weakens it, sure, but it doesn't block the entire perk.
And if you pick more than one aura reading perk, the problem described before gets intensified, and will need a counter even more. Additionally, if all your perks are tailored towards one specific goal, you run the risk of that goal being undermined. No different than running a full swath of healing perks into a Plague or Legion.
Yeah, it sucks. But it's how the game fundamentally works. Varied builds don't run these risks.
No people assumed like you that i did not want them nerfed…
No, people assumed that you didn't -care-.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744744#Comment_3744744
Aura reading is a meme build? Can't even tell if you are being serious now. I guess slowdown perks are also "meme build" then and the next survivor will get a perk that just nullifies all generator regression.
Yeah. Quadra-aura reading is a meme build. There's practically no benefit to having that much aura reading. Which is wildly different from quadra-regression.