FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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I could see this working for perks. I do not think that doing this for killer powers is a good idea. Add-ons maybe but not base powers.
If a perk or add-on gets broken because of this in either direction... Well just don't use it. There's already several broken things that people kind of ignore. Adding one more isn't a huge deal.
If an entire killer gets broken for one reason or another... People almost certainly will not be ok with just not playing their favorite killer.
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All of those sound great. It'd also be nice if they could make mending more engaging somehow, but I'm not sure how they could do that.
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On the Survivor side, I honestly think that Tenacity is highly underrated. Sure it won't work every time, but unless you have DS too, I think Tenacity might be a better Anti Slug perk than Unbreakable is. Though Tenacity won't save you if everyone gets slugged.
On Killer...? Hrm. I honestly like Surge + Survelliance more than Ruin + Undying assuming the Killer downs with M1. Deathbound though... that's a pretty great perk.
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So I get that this is probably happening because different groups of people have different dislikes... but... for real, what will you guys *not* complain about?
Like... people complain about Death Slinger and Pyramid Head for being too good at 1v1s.
People complain about Legion being good at the 1v4 because of the game delay baked into their kit.
People complain about Freddie because he's got a bit of everything.
So... I'm just over here like "Killers have to be good at something. What exactly would you be fine with?"
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I don't think it will happen... but I still want one with a heavy spider theme going on to get added. Unfortunately I don't think it'll happen because arachnophobia or even just a strong dislike of spiders is really common.
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Bad perks in the base sets of perks for both side. It's worse for killers, but neither side should have to do a ton of grinding to get even decent perks.
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He said it was against a Doctor so I doubt it.
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@JoeyBob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772888#Comment_1772888
It was an extremely close 3 gen. We tried for a bit but he would give up chase as soon as we left the 3 gen.
His fault for not chasing.
Then ping pong him. Base regression is ridiculously slow and Doc has no mobility. Him rotating to the other gen should let you get at least 5ish seconds of work in each time. If you need to... try to plunder a toolbox or 2... maybe a key if you get lucky. Still your fault. You had options, including not letting the 3 gen happen. You took none of them and apparently couldn't handle losing so you took the game hostage.
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@JoeyBob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772824#Comment_1772824
Then we were also achieving are goal. We escaped using this strategy after all.
Either way the "achieving the goal" argument is a poor argument.
Annoying the killer so they DC is not an escape. Even if it is, it is definitely not an acceptable one.
Besides, if you were in a SWF, you should have easily been able to put pressure on the 2 gens furthest from each other and eventually get one done. Either via making the Doctor commit to one of the two or keep bouncing back and forth and not get either person. You are in the wrong on this.
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@JoeyBob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772788#Comment_1772788
Killer could have chased us but he instead decided to patrol the 3 gen. HE was the one holding hostages.
Um... no? The Killer has a dual objective. Kill all the Survivors before they can escape. The Survivors meanwhile only have 1 goal... escape. They have multiple ways of doing so, but still only have that one goal. The Killer patrolling a 3 gen is still doing the second half of his objective. You may not like his methods, but keeping Gens from turning on is part of his objective. Your SWF chilling on the far side of the map is not doing anything to further your objective. Your SWF was indeed holding the game hostage.
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I ended up getting it by running a Stealthy Deathslinger build with Surveillance as my main tracking perk. If my Surge didn't hit a gen, I'd need to kick it manually to get Surveillance going.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772098#Comment_1772098
"Add-ons support Mouse-over functionality (desktop version only): hovering over the modifier words with your cursor will reveal the values behind them."
Just put your mouse over the words and it'll show you the respective numbers.
@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772098#Comment_1772098
If you hover over the tooltips sometimes they have the exact values.
Oh, oh. Thank you. I don't know how I missed that. That will be very helpful to know.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1770321#Comment_1770321
The wiki definitely has the numbers, I just checked.
I don't see them?
I'm looking here: Marshal's Badge - Official Dead by Daylight Wiki (gamepedia.com)
I think it used to have numbers but doesn't anymore. Like... Legion's addons still have their numbers but Slingers seem to be missing.
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She's still fun, but I got very sick of loading up into indoor maps as her. Honestly... after I got Deathslinger I just play him when I'm wanting a ranged killer. He's less map dependent and his builds aren't as restricted since all his hits count as M1's. He can't snipe... but I wasn't good enough at Huntress to do that anyway.
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Currently I'm debating whether they'll be my next 9k shard purchase or Doctor will.
Though I do very much want them to add the option to drop Viktor and stay in control of Charlotte and the ability to manually recall Viktor. Like not while he's on someone or anything... when I'm Charlotte and Viktor is just chilling somewhere. Let me call him back and not force me to wait however long it is for him to come back on his own.
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From what I can see, the devs are slowly making the game better.
Have you seen 2016 DBD? It is comically bad. The devs do make missteps... but... they are actively attempting to make things better and add new exciting things, and I have to give them credit for that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1770321#Comment_1770321
Yeah, you're definitely right that dropping pallets early becomes way more viable now. There are plenty of loops that are safe with the pallet up, but that the killer can bloodlust around for a hit once the pallet is dropped. Without bloodlust they're just forced to break the pallet. So yes, killers like Legion are now basically just forced to break the pallet. Other killers who have some anti-loop or mobility (that doesn't require a 4 second stun at the end of it lol) in their kit might still be able to play the tile without breaking the pallet, but this definitely does take away some flexibility for M1 killers. I say "flexibility" because bloodlusting every pallet isn't usually a great idea, but it's still a useful tool in the right situations.
Ah and that's a good point! I completely forgot those add-ons existed. I'm so used to being quick-scoped that I forgot that I forgot actually staying in ADS is a thing he does lol
They weren't even forcing the break. They were just dropping and dipping. Just me walking to the other side of the pallet was enough distance for them to get to the next thing. It maybe wouldn't have been if Bloodlust had been turned on.
Can't blame you for forgetting those add-ons exist. Most slingers just run the reload add-ons and there's no point in staying in ADS longer than you need to unless you have the Badge or Whiskey.
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In most circumstances I'll play fair. In fact, I have a friend who's a killer main who says I am too nice of a killer.
However... that goes out the window if 1 of 3 things happen.
- I see you bring a key. You are going to get tunneled out of the match as quickly as possible.
- You do something really dumb. Like, if you try to unhook and I'm within 18m on Deathslinger, I'm going to shoot you off the unhook. Double that if you then use DS to get out of it. If you just got unhooked and literally run into my face, I'm going to stab you and pick you up. If you then stab me in the face for your mistake... nah that don't fly. I'm going to tunnel you.
- All gens get done. Defending doors against more than 1 person is impossible so when that happens, I'm going to get a person on hook if I don't have one, then pitch a tent and Proxy Camp. The guy on the hook is the only objective left on the map. I have nowhere else to be anymore.
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I am wondering what you think Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time are if not anti tunneling and anti camping perks. Also there's more perks besides those that also help... though I'll admit they aren't quite as good as those two at their jobs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1769289#Comment_1769289
If they're bailing on gens "super early" then that would be effective regardless of whether or not Bloodlust is in play. You need to be within 12m and have line of sight on the survivor in order for a chase to start, and you can't start accumulating Bloodlust until you're in a chase. In a hypothetical situation where the survivor just holds W away from you on a Fast & Furious 6 infinite runway, you would only have Bloodlust for like two seconds before catching them. Bloodlust is much more relevant at loops, as killers are now forced to break pallets they could previously just Bloodlust around.
Also can't Slinger's TR not get below 16m? It does feel like 12m though with Monitor though since the custom TR audio starts so quietly lol
I must admit I didn't realize that chases have a max range of 12m to start. I still stand by what I said because while they have a 12m range to start, they don't just abruptly end if the Survivor gets 12m away. Seriously... on Sunday I had about 1 proper loop at a tile in 4 Legion games. Everyone else would just drop pallet and hold W away and not force me to break it because they didn't have to.
As for Slinger having less than 16m TR... Marshal Badge and Gold Creek Whiskey exist. You have to hold ADS to do it, but you can force his TR to less than 16m. Ran 2 games with M&A + Marshall Badge + Jaw Smasher and I was able to get really close to the Survivors before they knew I was there. My numbers might be wrong because the wiki doesn't have the numbers for those add ons... but yeah. Less than 16m is entirely possible.
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@Aldofer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1770165#Comment_1770165
i'm sorry but for all the killer match i played in rank 1 not a lot use this tactic and when they do you just need to hit and run it's not that complicated
Then they were missing out. If the Survivor sees you and starts running at 15 meters away and we assume a 4.6 killer and that lunge will make up for 5m, then you will catch them in 16.67 seconds if all they do is hold W across the map. And that's only running at 15m of distance. A lot of Killers alert the Survivors to their presence at a range significantly longer than that. You can't hit and run if you can't even get close enough to hit them in the first place.
With Bloodlust in place, the Survivors will stop holding W much earlier because they need to use a pallet to try to stop Bloodlust from coming online.
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Why would I convince him of something that isn't true?
It is easy to end up self caring when you shouldn't, but If you have a good read on the map, Self Care is a solid healing perk. I will freely admit that it starts really shining if you combo it with a medkit or Botany, but even without that, it's pretty good. However, making a plain yellow kit or brown + bandages have 2 full self heals is not too shabby.
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Killer is not more fun without bloodlust. Bloodlust keeps the Survivors from holding W across literally the entire map without you able to do anything about it. That sort of behavior from Survivors is incredibly boring. Killers can counter that by bringing Killers/Perks with incredible mobility, range, or stealth, but I shouldn't feel like I have to bring Trail of Torment if I want to have an enjoyable game on Legion, or M&A + Badge on Deathslinger.
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@UkilledLegion said:
all killers who have speed 4.4 expect rin and hag
Eh, if BL stays gone I'd still play slinger. However... I would probably 24/7 run a stealth Slinger build so they can't hear me before I'm in speargun range. I'd be more likely to not play Legion and Trapper anymore.
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@Lyfe said:
I main Nurse so I have no idea what this "bloodlust" you guys are talking about is. Was not having it really that bad because I personally felt nothing different.
For me on Saturday it wasn't too bad. On Sunday the survivors seemed to realize that they could waste tons of killer time if they started bailing on gens super early and holding W across the map. They used to get punished for doing too much of that by Bloodlust. Not so much this weekend.
It got so bad and so old that I started loading up with a build they couldn't hear coming. 12m TR Slinger... Let's go.
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Activate via pushing the active ability button (same as DH) to give yourself undetectable for ~5 seconds. This will cause a mapwide eagle screech. This has a cooldown of 60/50/40 seconds.
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@Sageclaw23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767059#Comment_1767059
I'm not arguing with you about the bloodlust, I could care less if it got removed or stayed. How come Legion would miss bloodlust? Or Pig since she's a stealth killer with a medium distance lunge? Those I'd think would be the last ones to miss BL. I'm also a Legion Main btw but I haven't played pig so much. I just wanna know your reasoning is all :)
With Pig, the issue usually comes when you either get your first hit as the Survivor is vaulting something or when you break a pallet. They gain like 15 meters of distance on you and then now that Bloodlust is gone, the survivors have been milking that for as much hold W distance as they can which... is more now because no bloodlust. Though I will say that as Pig I had some success playing a more hit and run style since the Survivors won't hold W if they don't know you're there.
For Legion, their issue comes at the start of the chase. Today at least, Survivors have been running really early. Like ridiculously early. Legion has a 32m TR and Frenzy can't be used for mobility really, so... if the Survivor books it when Legion is still 20 meters away... there's not really anything they can do about it except hold W after them and hope the Survivor messes up and has to turn.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1768207#Comment_1768207
Thats just what a good survivor does, run as far as they can before looping the drop the pallet after abit to break the bloodlust and repeat, which is fine but its while at loops the lack of bloodlust can hurt so much at certain loops or as certain killers which is the issue.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1768153#Comment_1768153
yeah like i said tier 3 isnt needed, and personally tier one is all you need on most loops if its a strong loop against your killer etc. i do like the idea of moving faster after a hook etc. im not sure about tying it to a perk but i do like that effect as it happens with devour, honestly if they made bloodlust 1 at 15seconds and tier 2 and 35seconds and completely remove tier 3. slightly longer time for tier 2 but keeps tie one for those 110%killers are the many loops you cannot use powers at
Sure, good Survivors do that, but today at least people are doing it more for far longer because Bloodlust isn't there to keep that behavior in check. Honestly that is a big freaking problem because holding W after a Survivor is stupid boring. Honestly that's why I stopped playing Demo because way too often I'd just have people holding W away and it was boring. Now if Bloodlust stays gone I'm probably going to do the same with Legion and my Deathslinger builds without M&A.
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Honestly loops haven't even been the worst part of this experiment. The issues I've been having today is people holding W like mad. Like they see you coming from like 15m away and just run. They don't run to the nearest loop... they just run. Why? Because there's no longer a punishment for running in a straight line for 15s before starting to loop.
Honestly if they do keep Bloodlust's removal... any killer that can't muster up insane mobility, insane range, or insane stealth just straight up won't work. Heck, I feel like I have to run M&A on Deathslinger now because otherwise the survivors can and will just hold W too hard. Like... the match where I had M&A and Marshal's Badge went insanely better than the one where I didn't.
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So, if you had asked me this yesterday I would have told you that I didn't think any killer would be not played due to no Bloodlust.
However, Today I have had *so many* hold W Survivors that in 3-4 games as Legion... I had a proper loop at a tile like... once? Even on the games where I've done well, the game has been boring because I've been forced to just hold W behind them for an excessive amount of time.
If this stays in the game, I might become a 24/7 Blight main. Holding W vs him doesn't work nearly as well.
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I used to run Spies on Nurse. She has numerous stretches of time where keeping an eye on crows is impossible. Also it would sometimes let me know when a Survivor had gotten on the other side of a wall then left the tile, so that was nice. Most other killers don't have powers that seriously impair the killer's ability to watch their surroundings, so I would... pretty much only use it on Nurse. Definitely would never use it on Slinger.
That said... on Hawkings... good lord. Having Spies on Hawkings when a Survivor is running is like someone is constantly setting off fireworks. It was too much. Way too much.
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Honestly I would recommend Legion if you want to learn the killer side of Looping. As far as I know, they're the only killer who has to engage in basic M1 chasing even if everything is going well. Legion's power gives you the time you need to do those basic chases and makes it so you only have to win one of them... but you still have to win one.
Wraith does a whole lot of surprise attacks. If you're looping as Wraith, arguably something has gone wrong.
Pig's Ambush is actually quite good for anti loop and sometimes Pigs stealth gives you a free down.
Demo has Shred that can get him hits that others simply wouldn't be able to.
Trapper can get a ton of mileage out of his traps if the survivors aren't paying close enough attention.
Ghostface, if things are going well, you're marking, sneaking up on people and stabbing them down in 1 shot before they get anywhere which means there's no looping going on.
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I disagree.
I've been playing quite a bit of killer today. With one exception, the only times I've really wished Bloodlust wasn't off was when, after a pallet drop or hit, the Survivor would just start holding W and beeline their way across the map. This was in spite of playing quite a few matches as killers that one might expect would miss Bloodlust quite a bit. Legion, Pig, Demo, and Trapper specifically. Last I checked, a survivor just holding W across the map is not particularly skillful but as those 4 killers... I don't exactly have any way to counter that either. Bloodlust was never a perfect solution to that problem but it was capable of helping.
The one exception I mentioned earlier was a game I had as Trapper where... I don't know how they did it but almost none of my traps stayed active for more than like... 15 seconds. I didn't see an OoO gamer or anything... but I was basically completely unable to get anything out of my power, basically leaving me as a basic M1 killer. The fact that this can happen to Trapper and will also be possible to do against The Twins for 45s when they come out makes me think that Tier 1 Bloodlust should still exist.
I will say though that Deathslinger and Blight do not miss Bloodlust. They're powers give them enough range/mobility that they don't need it.
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Self Care is definitely not a bad perk. There are however times you absolutely not be using it and people do anyway. That said, if your whole squad has it and you're against a Legion... you have gotten unlucky.
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Oh that is nice to hear. I was playing as him some today... and... the games where the Survivors weren't constantly disappearing due to my terrible PoV was fantastic. Hopefully it happens soonish.
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Ngl... that looks super weird.
I've had that happen once being on the receiving end of Blood Echo. Very much had a moment of "What the heck?!?! I didn't use Dead Hard... why am I exhausted?!?!?"
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@Bootlegmoth said:
Ghostface with huntress hatchets. Stalk from the bushes and then... Boom... Ace to the skull
Technically speaking, that wouldn't work. Ghostface's ability makes people exposed and Huntress Hatchets don't interact with exposed. Try Deathslinger's Redeemer instead. Stalk, Expose, Spear, Reel, Dead.
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Deathslinger with Lethal Rush.
Deathslinger's 1v1 is ridiculously good. Add Lethal Rush for unrivaled mobility and map pressure. Good luck survivors, you are going to need it.
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@Hopesfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764066#Comment_1764066
you'd still only get it max 5 times and by the time you hit P3 the game is almost over.. is it really going to break the game?
True, but T3 Myers only needs 4 to slug everyone and win.
Idk... that sort of thing probably won't break the game but edge cases like that are the only think I can think of as to why they nerfed it. Though someone theorized that they nerfed it because they couldn't sort out the bug with Demo and Pig. Which... that bug was actually brokenly OP on Demo. Also hilarious, but broken. So maybe that's why.
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Maybe they were worried about perma T3 Myers with Play With Your Food and Coup De Grace?
IDK... That's the only reason I can think of for nerfing it. In any other non bug situation, it looks meh at best without the nerf.
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Noed is one of very very few good perks in the general killer set. It should not be reworked or nerfed until that is no longer true.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1763149#Comment_1763149
1. He can just vault both. Legion doesn't lose Frenzy duration when vaulting, so only bad players would try to get a hit in pallets or windows unless it is guaranteed.
2. If he sees you're too far away with Killer Instinct, he can just cancel his power (which will be almost fully recharged as he just hit someone), get closer and start Frenzy again.
3. Not always. If I'm at a loop he would have to work for his hit, but in Frenzy he just gets it for free.
4. As I said, most Legion players won't use Frenzy unless they can clearly see you. Only bad Legions would fall for that.
I'm not trying to convice anyone that Legion is OP or anything. In fact he's probably the most mediocre killer in DBD because he's the only one whose power doesn't help in anything at all on getting downs besides giving a free hit. Even Wraith gets a speed boost after uncloaking that can help on downing survivors at loops and Myers has a longer lunge and vaulting speed on T3.
That's why I would like a complete overhaul for Legion, so he can be a stronger killer without being a boring mending simulator+M1 chases for the survivors.
That's exactly why I don't want Legion to be given a complete overhaul. I like the fact that his power is primarily designed to keep the other survivors busy while he engages in basic M1 killer gameplay. I might be weird in liking M1 gameplay but I do. Legion is one of my mains because they give me the delay necessary to make basic M1 gameplay not just... way too slow to be viable.
If they want to try to make mending more engaging somehow... sure. I would have no problem with that because that doesn't make Legion... not Legion. I honestly love the fact that Legion's 4v1 game is good and his 1v1 game is kinda meh.
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Legion needs some addons reworked. I think their base power needs a few buffs here and there primarily to raise its up time. However their power does not require any major changes.
So... Power Rework, no. Add on rework, yes.
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Pretty much the only time I'll do this intentionally is if you brought a key.
There have however been times where I did this by accident. Probably more times than I can remember. Doing this by accident... usually it happens because you've got the survivor in question injured and feel like you're on the verge of getting him down... but they keep just barely getting to the pallet in time. Just barely getting the window vault off. Just barely getting to a new tile before you could catch up. So... you keep at it. You keep trying because you feel so close then by the end of it you look up and realize you've lost all your gens and start figuratively kicking yourself.
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@Chinanumawaaan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1758267#Comment_1758267
In this instance there is a very distinct and simple counterplay to the "propose change". Legion is a pathetic killer and the change would only serve to reward the killer for the MISTAKES OF SURVIVORS and actually having an opportunity to capitalise on them being caught out of position, mind you this is gifted to survivors every match many times over.
A 4 man hit is a relatively long chase depending on positioning. If you mend you can be hit again by feral frenzy, if he hits you again it has no effect with a 4 second fatigue. If you let him run off while you do a gen for a few seconds or something till his power finishes you can mend safely. If survivors spread out and do other things it would be extremely difficult for a legion to consistently get 4 hits to get the down. In fact this almost doesnt change a thing for legion other than giving his power some sort of reward.
Players not being able to work things out is not a good way to balance a video game when the solution is extremely simple.
There are killers that stomp in low ranks and struggle in high ranks. That is consistent with most video games.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1758265#Comment_1758265
Slugging a 4 man would require a total of 12 consecutive hits in 1 frenzy if the counter reset after 4 but after the 4th hit the power would ideally end lol.
Here's the thing though. Legion can already punish certain survivor mistakes quite hard. They are also already a newbie stomper who falls off in higher ranks. Making those things even more true without fixing their actual problems isn't a good idea.
I like to call Legion a Knowledge Check killer. If you know how they work and how to counter them, they haven't got much to fall back on. This doesn't fix it. In fact, this deepens the problem.
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When I'm Killer, I have a tendency to favor a playstyle that allows me to keep multiple Survivors busy at the same time.
Legion I can run basically anything I want because his power does that without any help.
Pig is the same story though of my mains I probably play her the least.
For Deathslinger, I've been running Gearhead, Tinkerer, Deathbound, Sloppy. The first 3 perks can let me know where there is someone else that might need my attention and Sloppy makes it so breaking chase on an injured Survivor doesn't matter nearly as much. Though now that I'm thinking about this, I might want to try swapping Gearhead for Dragon's Grip.
For Trapper, unsurprisingly I run a bit more of a defensive build. Corrupt, Dragon's Breath, Brutal Strength, and Surge. But it still has the ability to keep multiple survivors busy.
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Every other killer on that list can fall back on basic M1 play if you for some reason just can't with their power that match. Not Nurse though. You're slower than the Survivors, so if your Blinks are off... well, you just get nothing done.
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@Ace_Ventura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759371#Comment_1759371
NO NO NO. I WAS WAITING FOR THEM TO FIND THE FLAW.
You did it for them.
Quick maths.
In my defense I posted that before I saw your comment. This forum doesn't do a spectacular job of keeping the thread up to date when you have it open.
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I'd much rather have somebody chilling next to a gen giving a teammate Prove Thyself than 2 people on a gen. 2 on a gen = Gen done in ~44s. 1 + PT = Gen done in ~70s.
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@siren_sorceress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759330#Comment_1759330
We just had a r15 get tunneled at 5 gens lol. Killer was r9 and did not give af. The problem is nobody gets on dbd as survivor knowing what looping even is. Everyone gets on killer knowing how to press w and swing at survivors.
You are correct new survivors won't know how to loop, but just about anyone can load up the game as Claudette with Self Care and know to clear out and hide when you hear the TR. I'm not super proud to admit that that's how a lot of my first Survivor games went, but that's exactly what I did. And... it worked pretty well.
Alternatively... do the same thing as Meg with Sprint Burst. That and holding W can waste a lot of the killers time even if you don't use a single pallet or window.
As for the rank 9 killer tunneling the rank 15... I mean that's just a killer being a jerk.