Make Legion's Frenzy lethal again
I saw this idea on a post @Tatariu made a while back, and didn't want to bump the thread higher than the Empire State building. I'd personally love it if Legion's Frenzy would have the chance to be lethal, but it would obviously need to be balanced. So here's his idea:
- Hitting the first Survivor in Frenzy applies a 30s Deep Wound timer, refills your power gauge and activates Killer Instinct.
- Hitting the second Survivor in Frenzy applies a 20s Deep Wound timer, and refills your power gauge.
- Hitting the third Survivor in Frenzy applies a 10s Deep Wound timer, and refills your power gauge.
- Hitting the fourth Survivor in Frenzy immediately places that Survivor into the Dying State, regardless of being Healthy or Injured and ends your power.
What are your thoughts on this?
Comments
Certain this was my idea. So I'm obviously 100% up for it lol
Doesn't sound like a bad idea, probably some add-ons would need to be changed tho.
Not a terrible idea but this wouldn't help them against decent players at all. The number one rule vs Legion is split up and run if you hear the TR after a deep wound. It's extroardinarily rare for a Legion to get more than 2 linked attacks against anyone that won't go down 10 seconds into a chase anyway.
I guess you have a point, all everyone does is split up, and unless the duration was heavily extended it'd be kinda hard. What'd be your idea for giving Frenzy it's lethality back?
Truth be told I don't have one. But we've seen what the current design of Frenzy was like when he could down. It was just hit one survivor and either abuse broken chase mechanics or continue stabbing them and getting stunned until their bar empties.
I've been of the opinion that Legion needs to be rebuilt from the ground up since shortly after their release and the rework and their current state hasn't done much to disuade me from that opinion.
I'm sure everyone who gets one-shotted by a frenzied Legion would DC in the blink of an eye.
Hey, if there's a way to make Feral Frenzy lethal again while still being balanced, I'd love it. I want the Old Stabby Gang back, but maybe without annoying the hell out of half the playerbase this time around.
I would be fine with this but I would probably add to make them slower after every survivor they hit.
I already suggested something similar to this but my thoughts were this is too strong to be basekit so instead I had it as an idea for a fuming mix take rework (old fuming mix tape effect replaces franks mix tapes current effect)
I don't know, I'd rather have some form of lethality reintroduced into the base kit.
his basekit is nice but his addons are all boring and meaningless most of the time
Theres a really REEEEAAAALLLY good reason why it doesnt kill anymore.
When I saw the title, I was scared.
But this is a good idea. The Legion's power escalates as the survivors get hit. I like it.
Plus, the downing only works until a survivor is dead, so it seems fairly balanced.
Oh yeah, an addon pass would be nice, I'd just rather have downing potential tied to his basekit and not an Ultra Rare addon.
Personally I wouldn’t like this idea because it has potential to screw over really good survivors who know how to play against Legion. Picture this, your on The Game working on a generator and legion happens to stab 2 survivors, but the third survivor runs directly to you and gets stabbed. You, who knows how to play against legion, can do NOTHING to avoid the insta-down feral frenzy stab even if you knew how to play against legion and split up. You can’t avoid the stab if you start running the moment you hear the terror radius because it’s The Game and the Legion can just cut you off.
Even if you did make a mistake it still wouldn’t feel fair for the survivors, and that means he would just become Spirit or Deathslinger 2.0. It might work if it was an iridescent add-on though.
Yeah but who doesn't split up against a legion?
Anyway the 3rd level of the bleed may as well be an insta down if legion cancels his ability. 30 sec timer all around with an insta down on the 4th makes a lot more sense.
Also the 4th hit insta down will apply to players who heal too soon for a second hit.
Honestly I don't think Legion's power should be lethal. It doubles Legion's speed gap between them and the survivors, it allows them to bypass every defensive structure the Survivors have, and it makes them no more difficult to control. In a word, its uncounterable. But... to offset that fact, it can't actually down anyone which is good because actual uncounterable downs are really bad when they happen.
Really, I just want Frenzy to have more uptime and stop losing charge when they hit people or pick them up.
the counter play is exactly the same as it is now. split up only now you actually have a reason to try to loop or pallet stun him out of his ability
How exactly are you going to loop a 130% move speed killer?
Also I'd like to point out that getting a 4 man Frenzy with this change would be beyond broken. I've had things play out kind of like you are suggesting, 3 man Frenzy into pulling the last one out of a locker... and... having that happen is nearly game ending. On the very few occasions that's happened, the Survivors literally never manage to recover. Also... I'd like to point out that this change in theory would allow Legion to slug all 4 Survivors with their first Frenzy. It would require the Survivors to mend, but nothing about Frenzy prevents them from restabbing people who have mended. Actually they can restab anyone... they just currently don't get anything for stabbing someone with DW and stun themselves. If the 4th+ hit down goes through anyway, you can just double stab Survivor #3 and get a down anyway. Yeah you stunned yourself, but the Survivor is on the floor so it doesn't matter.
If I'm being honest, this change would make Legion even better than they already are at stomping newbies who don't know how to counter them and does nothing for their matchup vs red ranks... so you are getting a very hard no from me on this change.
Downing a survivor in Frenzy would immediately end your power, so you can't 4 man slug with your first Frenzy.
Oops, missed that sentence. Still, most of my points stand. This would be incredibly rare to have actually go off against survivors who know what they're doing and make Legion even more brutal vs people who don't know how to counter them. It's not a healthy change.
In this instance there is a very distinct and simple counterplay to the "propose change". Legion is a pathetic killer and the change would only serve to reward the killer for the MISTAKES OF SURVIVORS and actually having an opportunity to capitalise on them being caught out of position, mind you this is gifted to survivors every match many times over.
A 4 man hit is a relatively long chase depending on positioning. If you mend you can be hit again by feral frenzy, if he hits you again it has no effect with a 4 second fatigue. If you let him run off while you do a gen for a few seconds or something till his power finishes you can mend safely. If survivors spread out and do other things it would be extremely difficult for a legion to consistently get 4 hits to get the down. In fact this almost doesnt change a thing for legion other than giving his power some sort of reward.
Players not being able to work things out is not a good way to balance a video game when the solution is extremely simple.
There are killers that stomp in low ranks and struggle in high ranks. That is consistent with most video games.
Slugging a 4 man would require a total of 12 consecutive hits in 1 frenzy if the counter reset after 4 but after the 4th hit the power would ideally end lol.
Agree I think it should be easier to injure everyone and have a longer duration rather than be able to down people easier with it. I've always seen the point of legion is to injure everyone fast and easily, not to injure and then down fast.
Here's the thing though. Legion can already punish certain survivor mistakes quite hard. They are also already a newbie stomper who falls off in higher ranks. Making those things even more true without fixing their actual problems isn't a good idea.
I like to call Legion a Knowledge Check killer. If you know how they work and how to counter them, they haven't got much to fall back on. This doesn't fix it. In fact, this deepens the problem.