FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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@siren_sorceress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/206930/i-feel-so-bad-for-new-killers
Lol why so much focus on the killer side? Playing new as survivor was far more painful. Tunnels, camps, more tunnels. Even if you get better you have to rely on your team mates doing so as well. Super fun as a brand new surv. I quit a week after and decided to keep playing but my sister quit and never came back lol. Game is way easier to start as killer but you will suddenly be hit with a rude awakening at around r13 bc survivors have to earn their first ranks where as killers just blow through it and freak out when the game does hurrdurr a win for them anymore. Unless they main freddy and spirit. You can keep hurrdurring then.
From my experience, starting out as a Survivor wasn't all that bad. Sure, you won't start out with great perks, but you can acquire them significantly faster than any Killer player can. Furthermore, since you're in a team of 4, there's less pressure for you personally to do well. Also... unless you randomly get a killer with BBQ early on (which is unlikely) playing stealthy works quite well at early ranks.
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@WalkedMoss92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759280#Comment_1759280
Then it's useless.
It's really not. Do you know just how loud injured survivors are? The answer is very. If the killer comes calling when you're injured you best be ready to run because you won't be able to hide. Unless you've got Iron Will that is.
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I'm starting to be very glad that I started playing Killer before Cross Play happened. Granted it was still rough because good Killer perks are scattered to the 4 winds while survivor can have a pretty meta load out after maxing 2 free Survivors (Meg and Bill for Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable) but still. I don't remember running into any bully SWFs early on as Killer. It seems like smurfing on console is ridiculously easy. Doing it on Steam is possible but you at least have to pony up for another copy of the game.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1758261#Comment_1758261
Downing a survivor in Frenzy would immediately end your power, so you can't 4 man slug with your first Frenzy.
Oops, missed that sentence. Still, most of my points stand. This would be incredibly rare to have actually go off against survivors who know what they're doing and make Legion even more brutal vs people who don't know how to counter them. It's not a healthy change.
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@Chinanumawaaan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1758197#Comment_1758197
the counter play is exactly the same as it is now. split up only now you actually have a reason to try to loop or pallet stun him out of his ability
How exactly are you going to loop a 130% move speed killer?
Also I'd like to point out that getting a 4 man Frenzy with this change would be beyond broken. I've had things play out kind of like you are suggesting, 3 man Frenzy into pulling the last one out of a locker... and... having that happen is nearly game ending. On the very few occasions that's happened, the Survivors literally never manage to recover. Also... I'd like to point out that this change in theory would allow Legion to slug all 4 Survivors with their first Frenzy. It would require the Survivors to mend, but nothing about Frenzy prevents them from restabbing people who have mended. Actually they can restab anyone... they just currently don't get anything for stabbing someone with DW and stun themselves. If the 4th+ hit down goes through anyway, you can just double stab Survivor #3 and get a down anyway. Yeah you stunned yourself, but the Survivor is on the floor so it doesn't matter.
If I'm being honest, this change would make Legion even better than they already are at stomping newbies who don't know how to counter them and does nothing for their matchup vs red ranks... so you are getting a very hard no from me on this change.
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Honestly I don't think Legion's power should be lethal. It doubles Legion's speed gap between them and the survivors, it allows them to bypass every defensive structure the Survivors have, and it makes them no more difficult to control. In a word, its uncounterable. But... to offset that fact, it can't actually down anyone which is good because actual uncounterable downs are really bad when they happen.
Really, I just want Frenzy to have more uptime and stop losing charge when they hit people or pick them up.
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@CorneliusCloud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757473#Comment_1757473
I rarely get stunned as legion. I just keep my distance while moving sideways parralel to the pallet. When the pallet get's dropped i go into francy and hop over. Idealy the survivor trys to vault the pallet and i can just block him while i catch my breath from all that pallet hopping.
Does the Iri addon work with Unnerving Presence?
I have used that combo before but wasn't sure.
Whether I get stunned or not depends on how I'm playing Legion. If I have Enduring equipped, I can use survivors dropping pallets on me to leave Frenzy significantly faster. 1s vs 4s. I've considered using Spirit Fury as well for an extra nasty surprise but I haven't got it. If I don't have Enduring equipped, I'll usually do what you describe. Get the pallet to drop (not on me) then Frenzy and vault.
I'm sure Iri Button works with Unnerving. The problem is that any build involving an iri add on is not particularly sustainable, so I'm seeing if I can make it functional with just perks. 48m Terror Radius while chasing in Frenzy is nothing to sneeze at.
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Deathslinger: Gearhead, Tinkerer, Deathbound, and Sloppy Butcher. Above all else, Deathslinger needs to do things that keep 2+ survivors busy. His Deep Wound and Sloppy makes breaking chase with someone he's speared not a huge deal, then literally everything else potentially gives him info (and stealth... because Stealthslinger is stupid scary) mid chase so I know where to go next.
Trapper: Corrupt Intervention, Dragon's Grip, Brutal Strength, Surge. All perks that work very nicely with a defensive setup killer like him.
Legion I have a few. BBQ, Thanatophobia, Enduring, Brutal Strength for when I want a no frills build for stabbing all the people. Whispers, Thana, PWYF, MYC if I'm feeling fancy. I'm currently workshopping a Skillcheck Legion with BBQ, Monitor & Abuse, Unnerving Presence, and Lullaby.
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Killer: Noed, Sloppy, and Whispers are all good. Bitter Murmer is alright. Thrill of the Hunt is Ok if you don't have any of the better totem defense perks yet, though using just it to bluff Noed/other hexes is funny. The rest of the basic killer perks are pretty bad.
Survivor: Kindred, Spine Chill, We'll Make It, and Resilience are all quite solid. If you want what they do, Plunderers, Small Game, déjà vu, and possibly the new Slippery Meat can all be useful.
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My favorite Survivor build is For the People, Dead Hard, Tenacity, and Self Care.
For the People is just fun and the rest of the build is there to support it. Dead Hard is there to help survive being broken. Tenacity is there because frequently you get slugged after you do a FtP play and it'll probably happen more times per game than Unbreakable can help with. Self Care is there because you can't FtP if you are injured and I'm bad at finding totems for Inner Strength.
For Killer, my fun Legion build is Whispers, Thana, Play With Your Food, and Make Your Choice. Frenzy with 145% move speed is honestly just great. Its also really funny hunting down your MYC proc with 3 stacks of PWYF.
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Some of my friends hate him because his madness messes with their anxiety something fierce. Way worse than anyone else besides Hag. Between the Doc illusions, the Doc face that pops up on your screen, the fact that unless you're listening *very closely* Static Blast can also easily be surprising and not in a good way... yeah. He's got a ton of semi random jump scares in his kit.
I personally don't hate him, but I didn't see anyone mention this aspect of him so I thought I'd chime in.
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In general, I like Surge. However I do sort of wish they hadn't made it affect regressing gens and completely killed the cooldown instead. When it couldn't affect regressing gens it kind of did double duty as both gen regression and Infectious Fright for generators, which was pretty swanky.
Also I'm surprised no one has mentioned how great it is/was on Deathslinger. All his hits count as M1's, he's the only killer who can reposition the down before it happens, and the time saving represented by not having to kick gens the regression and info given by Surge was invaluable because he's pretty slow in everything he does.
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@nina1121 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756305#Comment_1756305
Ok I get that but she's just black person and therefore trying to kick out all diversity out of dbd is racist itself I guess
I don't think anyone wants to kick Claudette out of dbd. They just don't think she should have clothes that make her strongly resemble a shadow. Even her default outfit doesn't get the same ire and that one isn't exactly colorful.
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@nina1121 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756295#Comment_1756295
Wait Claudette skin color? In racist way or?
Not in a racist way. A lot of the maps are fairly dark so Claudette is able to hide in places other survivors would stick out like a sore thumb. Especially if the Claudette player is running her P3 set. They are usually called "Blendettes" because they blend into the scenery.
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P3 Zarina. I don't care all that much about cosmetics, but I really like Zarina so I P3'ed her and got her all the perks that I've unlocked. Now I play as no one else because I have all the options when I'm on her.
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@nina1121 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756255#Comment_1756255
Bruh thank you for proper explanation I don't know much about game since I started playing recently that's why I made for this tread to see what I'm missing because I see head on is abused a lot but people either call me bad at game or that I'm trolling I guess you aren't allowed to parcipate in discussions if you're not profesional player but thank you for being decent and explaining properly
Also there's a matter of frequency.
It is a very rare game that somebody isn't running DS and probably DS + Unbreakable. It is so common that if there's an obsession in the game, you basically have to try to play like everybody's got DS. On the flip side I've played 688 hours of this game total... probably more than half on Killer. I've ran into zero Head On swf squad and like... 1 Flashlight swf squad that I can recall. While that flashlight swf was annoying (like my eyes legit hurt afterwards), I still ended up 4king that game.
If you never experience a thing, you probably aren't going to complain about it.
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Here's the thing. You can play around Head On. You can bait it, you can fake opening the locker then do it for real and hope latency gives it to you. In circumstances when you are really far ahead, you can camp their locker til they get a crow then pull them out. Also... you can just ignore them. They're in a locker... they aren't accomplishing anything in there.
If the Survivor is being obnoxious with DS + Unbreakable... well... unless you are one of a handful of killers, you can't really do anything about it. You can't afford to ignore them, you can't slug them, and you can't pick them up.
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I mean... Noed doesn't give free kills?
All it does is give you a movespeed bonus and insta downs after all the gens are done. That's it. It doesn't teleport a survivor onto a hook. Even without Noed its entirely possible to just finish getting the last down you're in the middle of then camp him or camp the guy you already have hooked and scrape together one kill that way. Sure NOED makes it easier, but all perks make something easier. That's their job.
Also... there's a much much easier way to deal with NOED instead of breaking every totem. Just make a mental note of where dull totems are on the map as you play... then come late game if a buddy gets hit with NOED, check the totems you know about... see if any of them got promoted. If one did, cleanse it. Congrats, you've countered 25% of the Killer's perks and all its done is made getting one hook easier.
Besides that, you know another reason NOED should not be changed? It is 1 of 2 perks in the basic killer set that is not just plain bad or a tracking perk. There's a reason why newbie killers have a tendency to run it. They literally have nothing better.
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I got pulled into this game by a group of friends, so both my first Survivor and first killer game was in a KYF.
When I was Survivor I remember I picked Claudette and ran Lithe, Premonition, Lightweight and one other perk I don't remember and ran like a scared rabbit in the opposite direction whenever Premonition went off. I wasn't completely useless because I had actually done the Survivor tutorial... but yeah. Scared Rabbit 100% described my survivor play style for quite a while.
When I was the Killer I had not in fact run the killer tutorial. I played Trapper on Ormond. I didn't see any other trap so I placed my starting trap in a random patch of grass and I was the only one who stepped in it. I didn't know lunging was a thing and one of the friends knew how to loop pretty well so I could not catch them. I did however catch and actually kill another friend who I've later learned does a ton of blending... which you can't do on Ormond.
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Pretty much you just have to throw yourself in and get wrecked a lot. Though on my last killer I got, I got super lucky. I got Deathslinger pretty much right around the brief period where the mm system was live so it wasn't throwing my newbie Deathslinger up against the same caliber of survivors that my Legion could face.
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It is pretty fantastic if you use it on Demo's shred... Partially because shred doesn't currently eat a token.
I may or may not have recently done that in a kyf on the PTB... It kinda turned Demo into a bookmark nurse except not going through windows or pallets.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1742625#Comment_1742625
Even if I break free, thats still a health state lost (given I was healthy before, of course). Breaking free is another issue for me. I guess I'm just too bad, but I somehow never get free out of it, even with debris nearby. I just will not stay behind the debris but being pulled around it somehow. Don't know how the killer does this, don't know how survs prevent it when I play DS myself.
Sure if a GF does that it's similar, but I still feel the GF scenario is way more fair than the DS scenario. Emphasis on feeling here. It's perfectly fine for a stealth killer ot be able to come near unnoticed, thats whats his power is about. But DS is no stealth killer, he has a smaller TR and totally f*cked up TR music, which gets worse with Monitor. If Monitor would be a true stealth perk (meaning granting Undetecable), I guess I wouldn't mind, but it isn't. So all in all, a non-stealth killer using a non-stealth perk to get near stealth-like abilities, on top of having a ranged attack, feels just heavily cheated for me.
The slinger will know with perks like discordance / surveillance, or just using game sense (a highly contested gen). Also, "incomplete" LOS blockers like bushes work in his favor when he is close to it, allowing him to watch / aim through the small gaps, but prevents you from seeing the other way around when too far away (just pixels then).
I think I've found your problem.
Monitor and Abuse is 100% a stealth perk. It allows you to get closer to the survivors before your Terror Radius informs them that you are there. Sure it doesn't go all the way and give undetectable, but it is 100% a perk that makes your killer stealthier than they would otherwise be. M&A is a stealth perk much like how Whispers is still a tracking perk in spite of not revealing any auras. That's part of why Oni has a tendency to run it. He needs his first hit asap, and the only stealthy perk that doesn't have a trigger is... a pretty good answer for him.
Deathslinger is the closest thing we have to a ranged stealth killer and probably the closest we'll ever be to having one. There's currently only 3 killers in the game with ranged attacks: Huntress, Pyramid Head, and Deathslinger. Obviously Huntress and Pyramid Head are not stealthy. 40m humming and 32m TR say no. Deathslinger though... he actually is. At base, he's got a TR of 24m and a range of 18m. There's only 6m of distance between when you can hear him and when he can shoot you which translates to 1.36 seconds of warning... and he actually has 2 add ons that shrink his TR further while aiming.
I honestly think that your expectations are just a bit off. M&A and Deathslinger are in fact both stealthy. Do they get to the level of full on undetectable? Well... no, but for a lot of applications they practically do because Caleb has range. Also... Deathslinger is not even the only stealthy killer who appreciates having Monitor. Not gonna lie, Pig with Monitor and Whispers is way stealthier than one without.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1742945#Comment_1742945
Lol, sabotaging your own progress.
I'm like 80% certain that's a typo and it is supposed to say "repairing generators and sabotaging hooks". But... I copied it as it was in the list inside the game... so...
@Inferno427 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1742945#Comment_1742945
that's interesting. they made madness 3 into a general status effect
You might be able to still unhook, haven't tested it myself, but... pretty much yeah.
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There's a description of it in the help section. However... the description does needs some work.
Incapacitated: The Survivor is unable to complete most basic actions. This includes healing and mending themselves or other Survivors, repairing and sabotaging generators, cleansing totems, searching chests, and using, picking up, and dropping items.
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I'm excited to try it out. I'm not expecting it to be meta, maybe not even good, but I am expecting it to be fun.
Deception, Diversion, Red Herring, and Saboteur together sounds like great fun to mess with the killer.
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On Pig, Whispers + Monitor and Abuse is very *very* powerful. Whispers tells you when someone is within 32m of you and M&A puts your terror radius at 24m which gives you 8m to keep walking towards the gen and crouch so the Survivors never hear you coming.
Also, if the Survivors don't know you're there, don't use ambush. Uncrouch and stab. Two reasons for that. First if they have Sprint Burst and you try to ambush they can run and make you miss. Second if they really don't notice you, you can potentially get a grab if you just stand up and M1.
If you want to learn potentially way too much about Pig, here's a 1 hour long video guide made by the best Pig main I've ever seen. https://youtu.be/5UOlX6azR3A
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739881#Comment_1739881
Glad you came around.
Are you not reading what I'm writing or something? I didn't "come around".
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739042#Comment_1739042
They are good add ons. You’re making the case that it’s bad for game health, but those addons are very strong. She has green versions of those same addons. Then the exhaust and mangled can cause some problems.
They are good addons. I do not know that Pigs should or should not play to her strengths, but I am arguing they are strengths. You are sideways walking towards the same conclusion. See what I mean?
Only a fool ignores the health of the game when considering whether something is good or not. Are a decent chunk of Pigs add ons strong? Sure, but a lot of them are super toxic which makes them not good. I am not in fact walking towards the same conclusion. Pig needs an add on rework far far worse than Demo does, though for very different reasons.
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So...
Firstly, there's nothing wrong with running Noed.
Secondly, assuming you are not on PC, you can't actually tell which system your killer is on... just whether they're on the same one as you.
Thirdly, Noed is hands down the strongest perk in the basic killer set. If you are against a newbie killer, 7 out of 10 times they'll be running it because they haven't got anything better. And 2 out of 10 of those who aren't are Huntresses that realize instadowns on M1 isn't great on her. Buuuut you'll occationally see Huntress with it anyway.
Fourthly, the basic killer set outside of Whispers, Sloppy, and Noed is... basically all garbage. The Killer base set hasn't got any kind of power combos like the Survivors have like We'll Make It and Kindred or Spinechill and Resilience. If your killer also happens to be running a killer with bad teachables (waves at Wraith) well... yeah he's gonna have Noed. Because he practically doesn't have another decent option.
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Don't have DS. How about For the People?
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Nah, I understand Pigs addons and heard people explain the negatives. I do not care for one of her iridescents, because it does not feel strong enough. But her purples, greens, yellows, and brown addons are almost all good except for like a hemorrhage yellow status effect and the three skillcheck addons. Everything else has a place, purpose, and use. Just be creative. She’s very good.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738640#Comment_1738640
You actually make the case that her addons are good. I agree with a lot of what you say.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738629#Comment_1738629
A lot of killers have bad addons. When you max out a killer you get pretty free range to pick and choose your favorites. I feel I only have a strong case that four of her addons are not particularly good (to me).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738626#Comment_1738626
Glad you agree on concept. I think four seconds (30 to 26) is well and good enough. Just gift the brown away so that GF players don’t feel like they have to bring both addons for charge. But also 16 seconds is too short a time. With this the GFs will be in the 20~ second range and be free to play other addons without significantly knee capping themselves by not bringing charge addons.
I think you misunderstand what I'm getting at. Most of Pig's add ons are not good. Not even a little. Unless you have narrowed your viewpoint to only their raw power (which you shouldn't), most of her add ons heavily encourage incredibly scummy behavior on the part of the Pig player.
Tampered Timer + Crate of Gears is bad for the same reason Iri Head + Infantry Belt is bad. They're too good in a way that makes that particular round of this game become absolutely terrible. That is not a good thing.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
After playing these killers quite a bit, Pigs and Legions addons are quite good.
I agree with GF to an extent. Ghostface needs the thirty second base reduced, but not allow stacking of time reduction so people can be freed up to use his other addons. Ofherwise double charge time is king.
I would like to disagree with you.
All of Pig's add ons that effect box skill checks are significantly more punishing for new survivors and against good survivors they are somewhere between useless and actively bad for her because more skill checks can mean more Great Skill Checks and less hat time. Utility Blades, Slow-Release Toxin, Rusty Attachments, and arguably Facemask all encourage Pig to tunnel anyone with a hat on which is just toxic gameplay. Tampered Timer, Crate of Gears, Jigsaw's Sketch, and Bag of Gears all are designed to make it easier to kill Survivors with active hats, so much so that Timer + Crate make it so Survivors can't search every box and interfering with searches could make it so they only get to search one. That's probably not quite as toxic as Iri Head + Infantry Belt, but it's pretty bad. Amanda's Secret encourages Pig to tunnel people who have just got their hat off. Rules Set No. 2 turns what should be a stall power into a power that incentivizes Survivors to hammer gens because they're not going to stumble around blindly trying to find Saw boxes. Instead they'll hit Gens to activate their hat so they can see where they need to go. That only leaves Shattered Syringe, John's Medical File, Combat Straps, Video Tape, Last Will, Jigsaw's Annotated Plan, and Amanda's Letter that aren't problematic in some way. Most of those are the add ons that effect her stealth/dash.
Legion's are better. However Stab Wounds Study and Frank's Mix Tape both simply do not fit what's Legion's power is anymore. All three Frenzy Detection range add ons are just kinda... why? The affliction pins work on paper and can work in practice, but... for them to actually have an effect on someone you do not instantly start chasing you have to stab at least 3 survivors. Good survivors simply won't let you stab 3 people. Fuming Mix Tape... eh... Frenzy doesn't have enough up time for it to be great and you can't just flicker Frenzy to quick check all the gens because 4 second stun. All 3 Duration, the 3 Cool Down, 2 Recharge, 2 Mend Time, and Iri Button are all fine though.
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How do you define worst?
I would argue that the design behind Demogorgon's add ons are all fine, good even. But almost all of them have numbers that are simply too low to be useful.
A lot of Pig's add ons have crazy bad design issues. From actually making her power weaker vs good survivors and heavily encouraging tunneling the snot out of people... it's just really bad. I think she's got like... 7 add ons that don't do either of those bad things... and they are all the ones that primarily make her dash/stealth better except Last Will (1 more hat) and Jigsaw's Annotated Plan (1 more box but +20s on timer).
Legion's add ons are also up there. They have 2 add ons that don't function with how their power functions anymore. 3 add ons that... kinda basically do nothing. 3 more that sound good on paper but in practice... they rely on chaining Frenzy and competent Survivors won't let you do that. That leaves them with... 9-10 add ons that are good depending on your thoughts on Fuming Mix Tape.
Then there's all the killers that have aspects of their base kit that's just too weak but have add ons to fix them. Wraith, Trapper, and arguably Ghost Face fall into this bucket.
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Trapper on Rancid Abattoir before the main building got fixed.
Our tale starts off with me having a pretty terrible early game, so I place 2 very defensive traps on a generator to try to defend my 3 gen. Twice, Claudette popped a trap and ran back to the god window. So... I trap the god window and reset my gen traps. Note: I trapped the outside of the window. She still didn't see it. Snap I get my first hook of the game.
Now I have Agitation so I bury Claudette deep in my territory. Kate gets brave and goes for the save. I spot her before she gets there. It doesn't go great for her and she takes her second machete hit while unhooking. Claudette is free but Kate is mine. I have now acquired a second hook.
At this point I know I have a trap at god window that needs resetting, so I go do that. Suddenly boom a loud noise notification just inside the main building from where I am. I poke my head in, there's Claudette getting healed by David and Meg. Why were they healing that close to me? Especially since I was running Unnerving Presence? No idea. I swing, hit the Claudette and she's now on the floor. A better play would have been for David or Meg step between us... but that didn't happen.
I leave Claudette slugged and start chasing David. He runs for the god window. Which I had just finished retrapping. David vaults SNAP! "AAAAUUUGGHH". I swing through the window and he's down. Step through the window and hook him.
After David is hooked, I go back to the Claudette. Surprise surprise, Meg is there trying to get her up. I think Agitation's Terror Radius shenanigans tricked her into thinking I was leaving to see if she was getting Kate. So I get a hit on Meg, she runs to a pallet. She screws up the pallet drop and drops it so that she's still on the same side of the pallet as I am. She tries to vault it, but I am close enough to get the hit and she's down. I just... go hook my slugs and claim my 4k.
End game chat... the entire survivor team is railing against the Meg for failing the Unnerving healing skill check. Conveniently forgetting all the other mistakes the entire team made. The only person I can't 100% say made an outright mistake was the Kate because hook trading is sometimes a good idea.
Note: All of this happened in like... 1 minute. I went from "I'm going to be lucky to get anyone." to "Oh lord everyone is dead."
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It was basic Frank with the 4th year crown. Now it is 100% Blighted.
If I'm being honest, I don't usually care about cosmetics, but the blighted skin is so good that I got it anyway.
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By far the scariest is Scratched Mirror Myers on an indoor map.
Unless you brought spine chill... Between undetectable and his tendency to not stick to targets, the only time you know for sure he isn't sneaking up on you is if he's carrying someone. Literally had me on edge all game last time I was against it.
Ghostface can create a flash of panic, but you get fairly lengthy periods of knowing where he is and also usually the time between getting marked and getting downed is short so there's no time to build that tension.
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To be fair, almost every killer power is punishing if used wrong or badly. Miss a hatchet as Huntress? The Survivor will gain distance. Miss all your hatchets? Well now you probably have to break chase and reload. Miss a chainsaw as Billy? You just lost the 2.5s you spent charging and the ~1s miss animation or more if you bumped scenery. Launch a wave as PH and miss? You just fed your target a ton of distance. Bump a wall as Leatherface? You lost your charge time, all your charges and go into a pretty lengthy tantrum. I think you get my point.
Yes, Legion's 4 second stun is a bit long, but on the front side of things, Legion's power has no charge time, no cast animation, no nothing. Just push M2, knife goes up and you're off. Add in that there are multiple things you can do to minimize the self stun at the end... it's really not as bad as it initially seems. However, just like every other power in the game, you have to make sure what you got out of it was worth it.
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Legion's strength largely depends on whether the Survivors know all the ins and outs of how Frenzy works and they have to not panic after the Frenzy hit.
It is humorous when a Survivor who you've already Frenzy stabbed decides to dumb tech you out of Frenzy and you're running enduring. Like... you literally played yourself. Also Dead Harding the second Frenzy stab that's not even coming... that happens way more than it should. Also hiding after someone else has gotten stabbed with Frenzy, also happens way more than it should.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1734916#Comment_1734916
I changed Frank's Mix Tape and SWS, also it's impossible to reduce the Deep Wound timer by stabbing a Survivor with this rework, the only thing I did is when you stab an injured Survivor with Feral Frenzy their timer starts at 10 seconds instead of 15 seconds.
Yeah... After BattleCast posted, I realized that I misread the second point under the Deep Wounds section. Sorry about that.
You have no idea how many reworks put that in Legion's base kit.
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Edit: Ignore this post... It was the result of me misreading part of the suggestion.
Ok so... I'm not entirely sure how I feel about your rework as a whole. I do however know you made one incredibly large and fatal mistake.
You have made it so Legion can down a Survivor by Frenzy stabbing them only twice after they're in deep wound with only 1 instance of cool down and recharge.
I'm guessing that means that you don't know why Old Legion got a rework in the first place. Here's the thing about Frenzy. It doubles the speed difference between you and Survivors, it allows you to vault windows and pallets, and it gives you a hit cooldown of practically 0 while not making Legion any more difficult to drive unlike some other killers (*waves at Blight and Billy*). This means that the Survivor you go after is pretty much going to get stabbed and they can't do much about it. For Current Legion, this is fine because it is practically impossible to down someone using Frenzy. Doing so with the current Franks Mix Tape, Stab Wounds Study, and 30s mend timer would take... I think 4-5 stabs with each one inflicting 4s cd and a 20s recharge, if you go for that you'll get like 1, maybe 2 downs that way before you've lost every generator. So... current Legion doesn't down with multi stabbing and deep wounds. They do normal M1 chases for their downs. Old Legion didn't work that way. Old Legion had a load out where they could Frenzy stab a survivor over and over and they'd go down. It wasn't a super fast down, but it was faster than what current Legion could do and was nearly impossible to stop.
You've brought that back. Essentially your changes to Deep Wound will give Legion a nearly uncounterable down every ~26s.
It'll play out something like this. Legion pops Frenzy and begins chase. Survivor gets stabbed after ~4 seconds, they're now injured and deep wounded. Legion keeps chasing and stabs them again after another ~4 seconds and they have 5 seconds of deep wound left. Legion goes into cool down and loses their power. Now this Legion is running both rulers so Frenzy comes back in 14s, in the mean time the Legion is continuing to follow the Survivor. Pop Frenzy again, and land another stab after ~4 seconds. Add all that up and you have a Survivor getting run down by a 134%, can vault stuff killer and dying with little recourse in 26 seconds. If you thought the outrage over PH or Slinger was loud... well... this would eclipse that.
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@daleylife said:
I hear you. But, if I am hooked near the exit and have DS, it is possible for me to get out.
You're not wrong, but that is 100% the scummiest use of DS ever.
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Ok... thing is though, if you're last person the Killer has no other target. They'll just camp you until you burn through your unhook attempts. If you get off you'll just instantly go down and stay slugged until your DS runs out and get rehooked. If you get up with Unbreakable you'll just get slugged back down.
That's why the game just kills you. If it didn't it would just artificially lengthen the game in a situation where you basically have no chance.
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Plague by far.
Fully sick Survivors are completely incapable of healing or stealth anymore. Honestly I don't think the game should have a Killer who makes certain aspects of the game 100% impossible. Sure you could cleanse... but then you give her your position and the strongest ranged attack in the entire game.
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I'm pretty sure BHVR can use Wendigos without any sort of license.
They don't originate from Until Dawn. Until Dawn did use them, but they initially came from folklore. BHVR was able to have a semi undead cowboy (Deathslinger) as an original killer for the same reason and didn't need to get licensing from the people behind Red Dead Redemption or anyone else.
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I've had a few moments where I've forgotten to reload as Slinger after I've hooked someone. So... then I try to do a snap shot at the next Survivor... and M2 just clicks and then I've already pushed M1 before I realize. That has lead to me lunging into a pallet that's been down for at least a full second on more than one occasion.
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I'm... well I've noticed I'm getting better.
I've always been decent and handling Audio Cues and Scratch Marks but was terrible at using blood or crows. Also way too frequently I'll end up hooking someone, then having zero clue where to go next. But recently I've actually started noticing crows flying away and blood on the floor and have used that to catch people I otherwise wouldn't have. Also finally getting BBQ has helped with post hook confusion. So... Ok and improving? I think?
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@LuffyBlack said:
I hate there isn't a neither option. I feel it's overblown. I barely even see keys, especially moris
Yes... you barely see them because most people realize they are OP and just refuse to bring them and hope their opponents do the same. Same with Iri head + infantry belt Huntress. They're broken, but people realize they're broken in a way that makes the game less fun... so they don't get used super often.
Honestly that's part of why I like this game... yeah there is brokenly OP stuff but for the most part everyone just kinda goes along with the gentlemen's agreement to not touch it. I mean I personally refuse to use any Mori above a Cypress, and the Cypress usually only comes out when I have a daily to mori someone.
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I'm pretty sure that most people mean that Wraith is incredibly add on reliant when they say that he's weak. Seriously, if you are on wraith and the survivors can spot your shimmer and you aren't using at least decent add ons... you're going to have a very bad time. But... addons like Windstorm, either clapper, Ghost, double reappear add ons... all of those make Wraith significantly better.
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Honestly they are 2 completely different perks with 2 completely different use cases.
Forced Penance is for preventing Survivors from healing.
Sloppy Butcher is for slowing down the game on Killers that Survivors 100% want to heal against but don't care if they do.
I don't think I'd ever run FP on Slinger but I run Sloppy on him frequently because people don't want to stay injured against him. Double that when they figure out I'm rocking Tinkerer. Stealth Slinger is great fun and Sloppy gives me more time to get things done.
Edit: Now you guys have me wondering of Thrilling + Forced Penance + Agitation + Thana on Slinger will work... I'm gonna have to try this.
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In theory you trade the healthy state for the ability to freely get yourself out of the dying state which kind of sounds like a decent trade. In practice, No Mither is so ridiculously obvious that only an idiot killer would leave them slugged so it just doesn't work.