EvilSerje
EvilSerje
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574101#Comment_3574101
The best Oni challenge is in one of the older tomes, 5 or 6 I would guess? You need to down a survivor with a 20s charged Demon Dash :D Have fun with that one.
Ahahahaha! Hard pass :)
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I'll tell you why it is unplayable for certain players.
Killers got huge nerfs along the way for a certain playstyle:
- basekit BT (made it harder for Tunnelers)
- removed hookgrabs (made it hard for Campers)
- autounhooking (made it hard for Campers)
- buffed Off The Record (made it harder for Tunnelers)
I could continue, but you get the point.
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I'll try to be an advocate and try to explain possible frustration.
For some, Oni is very hard to control killer (me especially). I took me 11 games with 0K to do left one challenge (break door/pallet while in chase with rage). My MMR dropped so low that I got players that only crouching and never touch gens, so I had plenty of time to finally grind it.
This is really tedious and frustrating one, but (there is a "BUT") - half of survivor challenges are as hard and frustrating as this one, so it is somehow fair (not really, it would be fair if half of killer challenges would be like this, but anyway, you get the point)/
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For the other side: pick up, open locker, vault, interact. I don't understand why they are so stingy on buttons. There are 10 idle buttons on the controller, let alone PC master race.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564074#Comment_3564074
The mass majority of survivors being bad doesnt mean there is a high skill bar, just that those player really are bad.
I find the bar is incredibly low for survivor with all the given warning signs and information thats now forced upon us.
"The mass majority of survivors being bad doesnt mean there is a high skill bar, just that those player really are bad."
Bro, did you hear yourself? 😂
You mean the survivor role is ONLY for a few (not mass majority) that find it not high skill? Then a) hope to get acknolegement from devs that survivor role is only for top-tier players and b) why killers whine so much that it is so hard, so much "genrushing" and unfair looping?
Anyway, best comment I've seen so far. Oxymoron manifestation.
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I don't think it's patches.
Baldurs Gate 3, Cyberpunk, Starfield, etc, etc. In addition, events in other games.
For example, BG3 eat every spare second of my free time, so I'd probably miss this midchapter (if only there was 30 hours in a day...)
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Another "Camper Anonymous" post to cry about hard life of killer? Both hands for anti-tunneling mechanic. Maybe majority of killer-players start to play the game and not weep "omg, i was doing 4K everytime by just standing near hook, now I'm at high MMR and its haaaaaaaaaaardddddd"
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Jill (she is hot)
Kate (she is hot)
Meg (she is hot, if only she would learn not to do this b-face one day...)
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Multiple reasons.
- What is called "nice" and "fair" is just reasonable way to play against top-teams. Camping/tunneling doesn't work against them.
- Trying to ruin gameplay of newbies is a questionable fun.
- Not trying to learn and exploit easy wins until you get to high MMR is dumb decision at best (see p.1)
If you cannot accept losing or get triggered by funny squats when you lost (because literally only two character can t-bag: GF and Pig), it's your problem and I personally have no reason or intention to support you in any way. You are like ones that don't like to play but just spoil games for others.
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I think that would be the most awesome change to DbD, but, unfortunately, very unlikely. I think BHVR will snap to port all assets and upgrade so many cosmetics.
But in ideal world, I'd give a lot to see this.
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@Feneroe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543804#Comment_3543804
Because people are playing a pvp game to play against other people, not bots.
That would be very true, if it wasn't to just 4 people being a plaything for 1 player. Camp/tunnel/camp/tunnel/4 slug/single match where everyone dead at 5 gens/rinse/repeat.
I'm not paid to entertain one sweaty player, I just want to play (exaggeration on "play", not even survive) after work. I'm spending more time in lobby than in match. I can't take survivors as killer because I understand how hard it is, letting go them often.
Back to the topic, today, every single match someone DCs or suicide. Every. And the most troubling thing is that I cannot blame them at all.
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What problem chasing bots? You can't harass people because bots don't care?
I would really appreciate that that game won't end in 3 minutes while you are playing as survivor. But who cares...
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Sadako. Just simp for her, since movie. Plus she is very enjoyable to play, convenient and fun, even before patch.
Plague. Good looking and super fun to play.
Hag. Unique gameplay, very different from any other killer.
Artist, Huntress and Spirit. Just highly gorgeous ladies.
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@Header said:
Xeno's miss cooldown is 3 seconds and he moves at 2m/s during it.
Demo's miss cooldown is 2.25 seconds and he moves 1.15m/s during it
why are people acting like Xeno doesn't have a cooldown at all?
Blight's cooldown is 0 five times (with Achemist Ring infinetely)
Nurse's cooldown is N seconds, but it doesn't matter.
Who is feel guilty playing them?
Also, Spirit, Artist and 10 more killers - no guilt so far.
Plus survivors can literally strip Xeno of his power.
So, what was this post about?
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I think it's just you and Xeno personally. I have the same issue with Blight, I cannot do anything, it is the weakest killer in my personal tier-list, F-tier.
If you really want to dedicate to Xeno, advice pretty standard:
- practice with bots
- watch YT (there are already 100+ Xeno win streaks)
- check on your videos what would you do differently if you could, imaginary, save and load (not about tail accuracy, but in scenario in general)
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"I think I lost today 20 games in a row mainly against" (put here any killer)
Yes, this is a life of survivor. I don't know about tournamnt-SWF types, but it seems game is being balanced around them vs. fresh new killers. Because I don't know how more frustrating survivor experience can be, but that side getting nerfed over and over.
So, answering your question: unless you like torturing yourself, extreme challenged and thousands-hours top-notch skills to just play, NO.
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Nurse (7 years) - ok.
Blight - ok.
Camping bubba - ok.
Camping every killer - ok.
Tunneling every killer - ok.
Very average new killer that can be easily stripped of his power (unlike Nemi, Demo or Wesker) - NERF IMMEDIATELY!!!!
I don't know what is happeing to this world...
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Can't say they cannot be done in SoloQ, but in general, that is a fair point that 80% of survivor challenges are "throw the game for others". Instead of helping your team where every second count, you running like useless idiot with toolbox/medkit/flashlight to get "3 blinds in one match", "finish healing 2 teammates", "hide near killer" etc.
Playing survivor is frustrating trash, but doing challenges is complete hell. When killer can do almost any challenge in one go, survivor has to do 10 attemts, and throw game in all of them.
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@LordGlint said:
Did you crawl to a corner to hide? I feel like if you put yourself there so the killer can't find you or so you were too far from the closest hook... that's kinda on you, at least in part.
I can show you two full videos where all survivors were bleeding out and killer just stand near until last second. And that's only ones I did record. And it not abusing game mechanic, nope, not punishable. Devs replied me in two mails.
Flashlight clicking - very offensive, removed. Locker saves - very offensive, removed. Probably next step would be remove crouching.
Deliberate bleedouts, nope, that's on you. Loser with fragile ego definetely not guilty.
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10/10
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Every new killer come, always screams about "overpowered". Xeno is very ok, pretty above average killer. The ability to always see you and appear near you is much more threatening, but people are "tail" "tail" "tail". His tail cannot be held or canceled, like Nemi do.
Maybe the only thing I'd change is make tail priming sound more distinct (like Huntress or Nemi). Rather hard to hear it now, along all that screeching and other game sounds.
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I never thought that I'd live to the moment when 3 gen become a huge problem. I thing it's only a problem with Merchant, but for her it could be personal 8 gens on map.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533833#Comment_3533833
Ahh, I also tell killers to 'git gud' if they complain that they can't counter Flashlights, Sabo, SWF, MFT... or whatever popular strong tools or tactics they complain about. It's just the survivor's turn considering the topic of the thread.
I also feel with those who find no fun in a game, so they urge the devs to change it how they'd prefer it. I just also state my opinion - in this case is that I have great fun learning to play around tools and tactics that make me lose - that's the joyful part of playing a complex game!
I'm glad for you, but you missing my point. I'll make it shorter:
I'm with 1700h LITERALLY don't know what to do with tunneling and camping. What to say about people with 1000h? Or less than 500 (which I almost certain is the majority)? Ok, I'm bad, I can accept that, but what about hundreds of people I'm matched with?
So many complaints about tunneling is that player, that uses this scummy tactic, is remove gameplay. Why waste time then?
Learning is good. Someone kill Malenia with barehands in Elden Ring, someone beat Doom on hardcore with 0 damage, someone do 180 flickshots in FPS games. But it is never a mandatory thing to just play the game.
Basically, that was my message.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533799#Comment_3533799
Isn't this true for every strong tool in dbd? We could say the same of Pinhead's Box, Sadako's Condemn, full-gen builds, Nurse as a whole, etc. This game is full of tools that destroy people who can't play around them, while only a minor inconvenience to those who can.
Tunneling is just another strong tool - the only difference seems to be that a notably high percentage of players seem to think that it's a strategy that should be eliminated / heavily nerfed instead of learning to play around it like we do with any other strong tool.
The thing with all you listed is that you can still play a game (maybe except strong Nurse, but I don't see her frequently). As for tunneling it's like "press X for win" for killer and GG.
I love the constant point to "git gud" for survivors, but never for killer. I have 1700h of playtime, and matched with people with around the same hours, many P100, but when tunneling/camping happen, it's 99% GG. Completely no reason to play when 3 survivors left on 3-4 gens.
So, maybe to play survivor it require 5K hours? Or 10? Is it really designed that way so only tournament players could play that role? I have zero intention to become Ayrin-class survivor, I just want to play few good matches after work (no matter if I win or lose).
Every survivor player have to be top-dog? I just want clarification, why game constantly balanced around bad killers vs strong survivors.
Thing with this "tools" is that they strip the game of any fun or desire to play. So, removing this "tools" would be healthy for experience of the game, not because it's "unfair" or "unavoidable".
Plus if devs remove this trash-tools, they can start balancing game around that.
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@Emeal said:
Sure but look at the other side of tunneling.
- It helps a Killer punish an unhooking done right next to the Killer.
- it helps a Killer get a quick down in places they would not.
I would not call it a flaw, rather a tool which Killers can use.
Sure, but look what comes along with the tunneling:
- It completely stomps only casual teams. Strong teams will wipe floor with tunneler.
- Killer doesn't learn how to apply pressure and with effortless wins is sent to high MMR with zero skill, where he's getting destroyed.
- That both destroys fun and cultivate frustration for casual teams and tunneler (camper has exactly same issues).
So I would call it a flaw. A tool is not supposed to work only on uncoordinated casual teams.
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Of course they are. Thing is to remove tools to harass one side without any punishment. Of course someone triggers from t-bags, where it's just funny squats (only two characters can t-bag: Ghostface and Pig). But slugging for 4 bleed outs, using exploits like camping/tunneling, these are the tools.
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Pretty much in chronological order. The older - the better.
- Alien vs. Truckdrivers (great horror)
- Alien vs. Marines (great action)
- Alien vs. Convicts (much worse)
- Alien vs. Pirates (much much worse)
- Alien vs. Idiots (facepalm)
- Alien vs. Imbeciles (double facepalm)
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Hawkins was awesome. I don't know what more frustrates me, removal of the map or total silence of why customers are bereft of certain service they were paying for...
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My problem (as a casual player) is that when I (sometimes!) lose as a killer I know why and it's on me, but when I lose as survivor (constantly!) I don't know what to do and what I did wrong.
As a killer I can do fun builds or no builds. As survivor I'm stuck to 4 mandatory perk just not to die in first 2 minutes.
So, I think game should be balanced around player's skill while removing exploits (camping and tunneling). Exploits push bad killers to MMR where they don't belong. Killers get buffs, casual survivors have 0 chance.
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Except Whesker (which is A LOT) I see everyone else pretty evenly. I even played against Twins. Probably it's your "first world MMR" problems.
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I think outline would help too.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522055#Comment_3522055
Well then I call your experience BS, just to make it even and exit this empty and useless discussion. Good night.
Well, with that argumentation looks like terminology was quite correct.
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The only diffuculty against her, besides potato teammates, is find TVs. Just pick tape untill she hits you, then pick another and put it back. Rinse and repeat. The only problem is chase, that is with all other killers the same.
Devs buff her only against noob teams (which she was strong before too), but she can't do anything with good loopers.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521936#Comment_3521936
Not really, I played intentionally friendly and fair for survivors no matter how detrimental it was for me for two years straight as an experiment.
The feedback was roughly 5-10% nice, 10-15% openly/extreme toxic and 70-80% either silence or soft negative with the majority simply being silence.
The individual experience varies greatly so I can neither call your experience BS nor do you have the right to do it with theirs.
Beside the thing with personal experience there are statistics and probability, that should be taken into account. I played as a killer not 10, no 100, not even 1000 games, so statistically I had to have BM event even if it is 0.1%. But, on the countrary, I have roughly 20% sweet talk, 20% "GGs" and 60% silence.
But when I tunneled (there is not much data because I did it very few times), I got BM'd in almost every case, which is not unexpected.
So there are three possible reasons:
- I'm extremely lucky and can flip a "head" on a coin 100 times in a row.
- Game puts me on some special rainbow server with unicorns and icecream.
- What you telling is somehow BS.
And no need to rage about "BS", when it's not for offence, but just short version of "what you saiying doesn't add up". You can call BS what I say and you have any right to do so, especially with arguments, as can I. What you cannot do is tell me what I can and can't.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Me: Plays the match seriously and plays the most effective way: camp and tunnel whenever I find it worth it, gets 3-4K
Survivors: Bruh tunneling camper, why you play like this, etc.
Also me: Chooses to play meme build or wants to give everyone a chance as Killer, plays even friendly sometimes and noding with Survivors, etc.
Survivors: tbag at exit gates, "gg wp", gens fly, 0-1K, "ezi", etc.
I am sorry but I just really don't know what to do at this point. You either respect the other side, having harder time and risk the chance of being made fun of or you play seriously and Survivors cry but you have better matches.
Btw, it a total BS, with all respect.
First part is correct: if I'd used scummy tactic, I'd get obvoius response. It happened couple of times and I deserved it.
But I almost always play meme builds (or no builds), and I NEVER got BM in endgame chat. But instead I get a lot of kind words and responses, no matter if I lose or win.
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"Now"? Seriously? Now is the last 7 years you mean?
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Play both, like to play killer but circumstances force to play survivor more, because of stupid book challenges.
Each of killer's challenge can be 100% done in a single match except ones like "sacrifice 8 survivors" or "down 12 different survivors". But survivor's one take many matches with no guaranteed outcome.
Who would have thought that "finish repairing 3 gens" can be done in 7 matches and even with throwing the game at the end (sorry teammates)....
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Many won't agree, but I like playing her very much.
Built in slowdown + stealth. Very simple killer, which is great.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517332#Comment_3517332
Because it doesn't actually nerf face camping and its just going to be another thing that SWF can exploit. So for example.
Lets say you are facing the facecamping bubba, the thing that supposedly this is designed to fix:
- Bubba downs you, and hooks you, and then face camps you
- Your timer for your bar starts increasing
- You unhook youtself,
- Bubba chainsaws you, you get deep wound.
- Bubba chainsaws you again during the same chainsaw sweep (this is possible)
- You go down.
- You go back on the hook.
- Repeat.
You'll still get facecamped and tunneled out, just now it'll take the bubba (in theory) a few seconds longer, but that is only if you wait until the very last second of the stage to unhook yourself. If you do it right away (as i'm sure most will) you'll actually just die faster.
Now lets look at the other scenario You are playing on "The Game" map.
- Killer gets a hook and starts hunting for other survivors
- Other survivors run him somewhat nearby the survivor on the hook.
- Yeah, their anti-hook thing is a bit slower, but eventually they can unhook themselves
- Despite the fact the killer isn't actually camping, nor can they, because of the different floors on the map.
- Because the face-camp radius is just a giant cylinder instead of an actual path distance.
- For example, you could be below the survivor and considered "camping" despite the fact that the actual distance to reach the survivor, by going around, and going upstairs, could be well over 40+ meters.
So basically, it introduces a complicated mechanic whereby everyone has to know exactly how far away they are from the hook in order to get information on how close the survivor is to unhooking themselves. Doesn't actually solve the problem, and is exploitable by coordinated teams.
A much BETTER solution, would be one that makes camping completely impossible for example, my proposed solution is actually a fix for both tunneling and camping:
- Remove the 4% mechanic and rework luck (it is dumb)
- Adjust bloodpoint gains so if a survivor is getting camped, they get the shared points of their team.
- Adjust bloodpoint gains so if a survivor is being chased they get some extra bloodpoints while their team does gens (distracting the killer)
- Make survivors share the 1st hook state.
- Meaning that if you hook a survivor, and they get unhooked, then you hook them again, they are still on the "first stage" because the team still has 3 shared hook states left.
- Once the team burns through their 4 shared hook states, then they start using their individual hook states.
- Tunneling becomes effectively impossible, because now you need to down and hook the same guy 6 times to kill him, instead of just 3, during which time you should be able to finish more gens
- Camping becomes impossible, because it'll take 6 minutes for the survivor to die, plenty of time for the rest of the team to finish all the gens.
Btw, nice idea with one shared hookstate.
Although self-unhooking is pretty dumb, I was thinking about slow up to zero hook progression the closer killer to hook. And radius could be fixed by using sphere instead of cylinder (no need that Skull Merchant thing). Besides, game is ok, there are pleny of ways to go up and even more to go down, Midwich would be more proper example (still not to hard).
But I'd try one shared hook state + huge increase of hook timer by itself, so it would be VERY punishing to wait for survivor to die.
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You listed all the nerfs for killer and buffs for survivor. But not otherwise. Kinda biased, no?
Let's fix it:
- 90 seconds gen time instead of 80
- Dead hard works everytime, with invulnurability and dash forward (now it's just deepwound with very small active window)
- Decisive strike after every hook without prerequisites
- Slower kick time
- Bigger maps with infinites
- Jolt (Surge) was with a big cooldown
- Fat Medkits
- Circle of Healing
- Spinechill + Resilience
should I continue?
And no, I don't say it was super hard for killer, I got my first 1000 kills in old times. Now it's relatively easier and plainer. Do you remember being afraid to pick recently unhooked survivor or baiting DH?
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"Oh dear, another dogged contender..."
Even camping and tunneling still couldn't kill DbD, what about some new wannabe that pop every half a year?
VHS, Last Summer, Friday 13... Maybe they are just low-tier killers? xD
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518779#Comment_3518779
if you are bad at survivor you know that intentionally looping next to the hooked survivor is a bad play , yeah some killers can abuse that by intentionally playing bad , but what if as killer someone decides to do that to you and run to a hooked survivor on purpose to IDK trying to use a strong tile and if that guy has a lot of second chance perk or soo your only options becomes.(DH, styptic , Syringe)
i should let them unhook someone for free or either be punished anyway by a mechanic that instead of focusing on prevent camping seem like more like cheese mechanic that rewards survivor for doing the bad play of looping close to someone hooked.
YES a killer should be totally punished when facecamping intentionally and not even trying to go for someone else , but not the ones that are forced to stay because a guy is just playing poorly and leading the killer into hooked survivors , which is pretty common.
The guy that playing poorly will be hooked next, no matter if first survivor is unhooked or not. But people that defend camping think that's it is not fair to unhook someone while he chasing another survivor, hooked survivor have to die no matter what.
The core of the problem have to be solved. Yes, in some RARE cases it would be unfair, but we are talking about REGULAR abusing, that deny playing from both survivor and killer too.
And the main thing, that people still don't want to hear (I understand campers, but I'm talking about normal players) is that when killers will be punished for camping, devs can start fixing other things (maps, styptics, etc).
Now it's leading to more and more gap between players.
Low-mid MMR get constantly stomped by not very skilled killers even without camping, with camping they no, not win, even not play (and also getting harassed, slugged to bleedout and other very kind experience). But when devs try to somehow help MAJORITY of playerbase, top-tier survivors stomp killers with ease (Plust campers end up on high MMR without skill, where they produce even more noise how game is unfair and camping is the only way to kill at least one survivor)
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517832#Comment_3517832
Also, I personally would LOVE to see a time when such radical one sided measure would be taken by the devs. I have said so multiple times over the years occasionally.
I would love if they would just cut camping, tunneling and prolonged slugging straight out of the game without immediate compensation like you propose here.
I am really curious if this game would survive the 6-12 weeks "bleeding" from the "wound" made by this "cut/amputation" until killer would get something to soften the blow.
Casual killer are already just as unhappy with the game as survivor, in general.
Edit: Oh and of course we know that the bandaids/ointments also won't be removed until 6-12 weeks later from history.
" the killer can't even try to get the unhooked survivor down, so they most probably Bodyblock for the looper and the killer really end with nothing to show for it, hence the unhook would be "free"."
Ahaha. Why? Why? Doesn't killer has a weapon? How is it "bodyblocking", survivor is invulnerable? Killer can't hit new survivor?
Or killer want a kill "for free" from first hook?
Measure is utterly not onesided, it's REMOVING currently onesided measure. The main idea is to force killers to PLAY the game (chase all survivors, patrol gens), not getting a win for free.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/388220/promised-anti-camping-mechanic
while i do want that mechanic to finally do not allow people to just face camping with deadlock and stuff over and over.
I rather prefer that to be delayed a bit more untill other topics get fixed like the current unhealthy MFT situation.
as far as i know that mechanic if it is the same we heared on the anniversary stream , its gonna be terrible and easily abusable for survivor on many maps with gens near to hooks and forcing the killer to lose when the survivor is the one doing a bad play.
best example lets see if I hook a guy in the shack (NOT BASEMENT) and another guy loops that area intentionally, it means that as long as I keep chasing that guy , the other guy that is hooked is gonna be able to unhook themself for free?
(if "YES" thats gonna be awful)
I still cannot quite get what are these "for free"? If you one survivor running from you around hook, another one have to save the hooked one, instead of doing gens. If he decides not too, you get two hooked survivors and that's almost certain GG. Survivor on the hook is incapacitated, one in chase, only two can do something. I cannot see any "free" results. Swarming around hook lead to all being injured and potentially multiply down.
But what I can see as "free", is standing near hook doing literally nothing and get a win.
Is it somehow with idea that killer is entitled to kill survivor after single hook no matter what? I always believed that hooking a survivor is progressing one hookstage, not that this survivor has to die for sure.
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@TwistedRusty said:
I was gonna say anyone standing near a hooked player for a few seconds, the killer should be hit with a slow fatigue or get blinded or gets blurry vision as a punishment for a few seconds, but that could be difficult to go by. I was also going to say people can report the killers to be unfair players and the developers could add that feature to the killers who's most reported to be campers, but that function could easily be abused.
No, anything that involves player's responsibility would never work (otherwise there won't be any campers in the first place), it will be abused out of grudge.
Also easily counterable ways won't work either: standing still easily countered by not standing still. I haven't seen Insidious Bubba in ages, but camping Bubba - every time.
It's just have to be punished. Basekit Reassurance, slowing hook progress (up to zero within 10 meters), etc. But it's everytime meet waves of objections from campers that scared they lose easy wins.
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That's SO SUBJECTIVE!
For me, Blight, Oni and Billy are impossible to play. If I dare to use their powers, I give survivors chance to run away and recuperate. I did their adepts by NEVER using their powers.
In the same time, Oni and Blight are the strongest and very popular killers.
On the other hand, Knight and Singularity I feel like very easy and comforting to control (maybe Singularity is a little hard with all "disorientation", but it could be negated by careful blobs placement).
I'd give Singularity visual cues when traversing cameras, like Dredge, but super fast, that will negate disorientation. Knight is perfectly fine.
If there would be any tutorial how to play Blight and Oni, that would be also perfect.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517332#Comment_3517332
Because the game is currently balanced around camping and tunneling. In order to add this the game would need to be rebalanced heavily simultaneously. The game currently isn't balanced for 12 hook games.
Wait wait wait, you mean it is balanced around "bad killers vs. good survivors"? What about good killers vs. good survivors? Or bad killers vs. bad survivors (which is the majority)?
Is it balanced around GG at 5 hooks when no reason to play further? Or is it balanced around boosing killer-player fractured ego? Please, explain.
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@Beatricks said:
I could be wrong, but I swear it was sometime this fall. Hopefully soon, it's a desperately needed feature.
Both hands on that. Playing survivor is total trash. I could count with fingers how many times killers NOT camp, it's pandemic. 4 of 5 just going for cheap win right of the bat and nothing can be done.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517428#Comment_3517428
You miss the point. There are a number of ways where survivors make camping the absolute right option for the killer. Removing these takes away any risk in that and allows survivors to brute force themselves through the killer, who when their best strategies are punished / removed from the equation becomes nothing more than a tool for survivors to get BP.
This is a general issue with the game. That survivors can play reckless and beat the killer by doing so because they simply lack the power to prevent that. They can't really solve it either because then solo queue becomes unplayable.
I'm not against an anti-camping mechanic by any means. But you need to understand that this will not just remove the camping part and make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Because this will result in a nerf to killers in general and a buff to survivors. A heavy nerf actually. And it would need to result in compensatory buffs. Buffs that might make everything worse.
I don't believe these motion could lead to anything worse than it is. Camping and tunneling are absolue worst. If devs in some way remove/punish these mechanic, they can start to tuning things back to ballance if needed (buff killers, nerf some perks, etc). But the core problem will be removed. All todays bandaids are literally "putting an ointment on late-stage gangrene" - Reassurance, 5 seconds BT, etc. It doesn't help with the main problem, but buffing comp-SWF teams even more.
Again, in my 1600h I've never had to come to camping before doors opened, like never (I don't like easy wins, plus this "strategy" doesn't work with strong teams, that means it is trash strategy). Maybe it's different after 10000h, but I (and majority of casual playerbase) don't really care.
TL;DR
Proper way would be cut the problem completely and tune gameplay from that point, rather than deliver panic-bandaids that increase chaos, problems and frustrations even further. At least there will be gameplay.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517332#Comment_3517332
Because there are situations where the survivors give you every reason to camp someone out. If I hook someone and all 3 survivors swarm me around the hook, then guess what I'll do?
I'm not going to run across the map and wait for them to reset and remove any pressure I have on them. The same is true when even 1 survivor is obviously near the hook. 2 survivors are not progressing faster than I am in that situation. When all survivors are injured and I have someone on a hook, then why wouldn't I camp them? Before they can even attempt to get an exchange they will need to heal.
By nerfing tunneling and camping you also make the survivor role more forgiving for mistakes because you take away any possibility for the killer to capitalise on their mistakes, which incentivises them to play even more reckless. This is already a problem. I've seen a lot more Deliverances over the past couple days. Why could that be? Surely it's not because they can simply rush the hook, get an unhook because I can no longer stop them and get their Deliverance for free, is it?
The funny thing about tunneling is that right now it's stronger than it has ever been. Because instead of healing, they'll rush gens with Resilience, which also takes away the possibilities of a safe bodyblock. Instead of running DS and OTR there are a lot MFTs and WoOs. Basically survivors try to progress their own objective as fast as possible and completely ignore any defenses they might need. 1 year ago before 6.1.0 killers actually had a risk when tunneling someone. That risk is no longer there. And that is to a degree on the survivors themselves, that make it so easy and so much more necessary.
That's a basic substitution of concept.
There are situations SOMETIMES, but ABUSING cheap ways to almost guaranteed win is rampant. So why defend common exploit with rare situation?
First of all, in your example when survivors swarm the hook, it's trade. Nothing wrong with that. No need to camp.
Second of all, camping in EGC is pretty ok and no one complains about it.
To the third, whe could block with rare situations every change:
- sometimes killer have too much slowdown, 90 seconds gen time is too much
- sometimes killer need to down unhooked survivor, 5 second BT is too much
etc. etc.
I think everyone could survive if "sometimes" something is not available anymore, but at the same time HUGE amount of low-mid MMR players would be happy and some killer-players finally start to learn how to play.