Evan_
Evan_
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- Evan_
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Am I right to assume that you constructed this theory based on a single match?
Many would say that's an insufficient sample size.
The survivors I faced in a couple dozen trials were cool, they didn't give up.
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@beachfossels said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596355#Comment_3596355
i thought end game was only when the doors were open so it’s when the last gen is completed? :^)
It is. By using the terminology precisely, AFC is disabled when gates are powered.
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@Quizzy said:
I agree. But that takes time and effort. Something they dont have unfortunately.
I understand how programming, and doing visuals and testing and such can be magnitudes more complicated than the mundane user imagines it, but we are talking about creating small 2d images from assets that are already available.
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Clown?
Nothing. The stereotypes are as accurate as my bottle-placements. :]
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How do you imagine ensuring that the players who queue for casual won't sweat as much as they already do?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594202#Comment_3594202
Im not suggestion anything about competitive dbd (which sounds like an oxymoron tbh lol). Just because something is optimal doesn't means its skillful. It might be, but isn't exclusive. Perfect 12 hook matches are indeed fantasy and ultra rare. But I'd wager those games were pretty damn fun and engaging. There's nothing engaging about tunneling someone out every game. Those players aren't improving their killer game and likely won't until its addressed because it IS optimal.
Playing optimal at the moment in dbd is playing brain dead. Tunneling, proxy camping, WoO, gen rushing, pre-dropping, its all brainless. And the sad fact is it will give you results at the expense of self improvement and just not being a boring killer/survivor.
You do have a point, I'm just looking at it the other way around.
To improve in dbd you need to play sub-optimally. That comes from the game's design, it's not even a fault, it's just how the game is. If someone always aims to preform as best as he can, he'll have a hard time improving. But if someone always goes for the impossible but fun plays, he'll never know how much he improved by doing so.
I personally deal with this paradox by having prolonged chill practice, and sweaty climbing phases too. I also tend to assume that other players do the same, as only doing one gets boring and/or annoying fast. If they aren't doing such swings of approaches, I can only recommend it to them!
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I only ever had a five stack once accidentally. I got carried away by the trial, and forgot about Pentimento, so I did light them up at the same time.
In a common match I don't even aim for getting a 5 stack - the survivors going around to cleanse 5 more totems is great passive slowdown on top of the active one. At that point getting perma-Pentimento is just icing on the cake, the trial is likely already over.
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Every killer can 3-gen.
But SM's 3-genning power has been heavily nerfed. Other ways to play her are better.
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What do you mean? He's S-tier on Killa Whale's tierlist, and that's the only objectively correct one because he said so.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594210#Comment_3594210
Boggles my mind that this is the only game where smurfing is encouraged by the community in order to have fun matches.
This is intended to be a casual game, forcing one side to sweat like they are playing for the Champions League just so they can have a fair chance at winning against a side that just Holds M1 on a gen is ridiculous.
This is also the only game where people call you out for playing optimally and efficiently.
Sounds like there is no solution that would satisfy everyone. We might as well encourage people to play however they want, because someone will complain either way.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593150#Comment_3593150
I say how I feel. If I feel a particular way is skillless or skillful, I'll state it. If Im insulting someone, I make it very clear. If its skillful to someone else, it doesn't change my perspective unless its explained. Who's gonna explain why tunneling is skillful? I don't feel it is. I feel its lame and lacking skill or self improvement at the game. So I will continue to state such things. If this offends someone, apologies!
There's a few I'll happily go back and forth with. But I've never felt attacked myself. I've gotten no warnings from mods and such, save a few DC-admitting posts. But I am glad you brought up perspective. I am ALWAYS trying to see the other perspectives. It's how I thrive in life.
If you're tired of seeing that stuff, you really shouldn't be coming to the forums. This community is what it is, and its a toxic cesspool of human behavior unchecked. I can't say much else there. :(
But I will try to be more respectful moving forward. Thank you for being so candid about this. :)
Are you suggesting that players of the competitive scene are all unskilled? You never see them presenting perfect 12 hook matches. To me what you state sounds like saying that holding m1 on a gen when it's the optimal thing to do is lacking skill just because it's not mechanically hard. They definitely aren't improving while doing that!
Though I'm not saying that tunneling (or doing a gen) makes one skilled. But skilled players will do the optimal play when they want results.
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You don't know your MMR, and you don't know who are teamed among your opponents.
I assume you just find popular scapegoats for your losses besides the obvious.
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@CatnipLove said:
I rarely ever encountered a face camping Booba. Almost every one that I've met has been an Honorable Booba (allergic to hooked survivors). Fortunately we still have Chest Camping Booba and Real Estate Booba left.
Insidious basement-Bubba works pretty well too. You can't facecamp anymore, but you can still hide around the entrance outside of AFC range.
Guess it'll take some big content creator to call the attention of the general populace on this jolly possibility!
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I hope it is possible - that sounds hilarious.
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That argument sounds solid to me.
If you can get an STBFL-like effect from basekit with practice, then you're practically running three perks instead of four. Is it cool to run a perk purely for convenience to skip learning a killer's power? Sure, why not? Is it a gud thing to do? I doubt it.
Saying that a perk is bad rarely means that it actively hinders you. We usually only say it because there are better options.
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And here I thought you are asking for the percentage of survivors who throw the match when facing him.
I'd be interested in that number. :P
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593162#Comment_3593162
It'd better than it is now. Slugging is much easier to remedy.
"Remedy?"
You give the impression that you are going to come up with basekit solutions for every tactic until the only single way to eliminate survivors is 12 hooks in perfect order.
I'm happy that the devs are the devs and not some random forum people.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592068#Comment_3592068
Not sure what you mean. I've been giving out an easy fix to the tunneling solution for awhile now. All you do is make it so the Entity won't accept the same Survivor twice. Period. Upon trying to hook the same person twice you will see a message that states, "The Entity wants a fresh sacrifice, go find a new Survivor to hook." (Something like that) This would actually force you to go after a new person. There would be no way at all to tunnel unless you wanted to just stare at them on the floor. xD BHVR won't make this change as it might actually be good for the game..
I guarantee you they make a change like this and you'd start to see the tunneling slow down pretty damn quick.
Yes, we'd just go for bleedouts.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592775#Comment_3592775
Yeah, no.
I am playing Clown pretty often. And things i can do with SM is imposible for Clown.
I can't hold 3 gen like her as Clown.
I can't use my power and get BL like her as Clown.
Clown can ignore weak and mediocre loops but SM can ignore almost most of loops.
Clown takes a lot skill for max value from his power, SM is braindeadly easy and more effective.
Even their kill-rates shows their levels lol. SM has almost 70% , Clown is barely above 50%.
I am hardly seeing someone dc/suicide against Clown. But SM is dc & suicide monster. If this continue like that, BHVR eventually will revisit her again. They can't leave problematic killer as how she is right now.
Sadly the amount of Clown-hours doesn't matter - one can stay mediocre indefinitely. I don't think your Clown-experience is relevant if you think SM's 10% Hinder and 3% Haste is comparable to Clown's respective 15% and 10% - or if your chases last long enough for bloodlust to matter.
Also any killer can hold a 3-gen, zoning killers can do it slightly better. SM is very good in it, as most survivors never got the note that now you can just ignore the drones while working on the gen. Any decent team breaks or prevents her 3-gen now though.
I don't feel the Nightlight killrates are particularly relevant - many people claim they dc / suicide / give up against Merchant, therefore her stats likely don't reflect her actual efficiency.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592760#Comment_3592760
Clown actually has to: think where to throw the bottles, use another bottle to get haste, get the m1 twice
None of these apply to sm (most important being the thinking part)
So the problem is that SM does the same thing as others do more easily? That shouldn't matter from a survivor perspective. The result is the same.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592760#Comment_3592760
You know wrong then. Dropping pallet works fine for Clown. Dropping pallets mean pointless against SM since she can force bloodlust + trap. And trap is giving her bonus speed.
Clown can't get bonus speed unless they use yellow gas. And Clown can't force bloodlust because gas is staying in area for limited time, so they will need to use power again which means losing bloodlust.
SM? Put drone and get your free hits. She is chase monster and she still hold 3-gen so good.
Dropping the pallet works against beginner Clown. One day you may meet a better one. One of the telltale signs is that they'll have the bonus speed from yellows whenever it matters.
Otherwise the bloodlust part is a fair point. I keep forgetting that there are survivors out there who keep losing against no map mobility m1 killers who's chases are so long that bloodlust kicks in.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592749#Comment_3592749
Ah yes the counter of "just go to another loop"
As far as I know that's also the counter for a better Clown, Artist or any Knight. Where are the 'delete Clown!' threads?
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@BooperDooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592737#Comment_3592737
If I'm only ever getting chased in a game how am I supposed to improve at or enjoy any other aspect of the game? That's not an opportunity I want or asked for in this game. Nor can I get the chance to improve in chases if I'm consistently on a hook and not getting the chance to heal or move a large distance away.
Are you expecting people who aren't gods at chases to just deal with getting tunneled all the time until they finally are able to survive tunneling? Doesn't sound like fun gameplay, nor will I be ever be awarded a sufficient amount of points at the end of a trial until then. How about instead we just fix the issues on both sides? Problem solved, or maybe you just enjoy tunneling because it makes the game easy.
This thought is a bad thought, you could have kept to yourself.
What other aspect of the game you mean? Holding m1? If your finger is steady, you are already as good in it as the comp players!
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@egg_ said:
The few people defending her and trying to convince others she's not that bad are mindblowingly the few people who enjoy playing her, shocking 🤯
I've wasted enough words already on this disgusting killer, wish bhvr would just nerf her to the point where she's unplayable, since e they obviously can't out right delete her. I don't care with who I'm playing, as of now she's just an insta go next
Wait, are you saying that the mass of people who dc against her instead of learning the simple counters of this low-tier killer don't even play as her? How could they be objective then?
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You say you're trying to get better in looping, but you complain that your trials are one non-stop chase until you die, and you don't get to hold m1 over gens and injured team-mates.
To me it sounds like you couldn't ask for a better opportunity to practice and improve.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592494#Comment_3592494
Maybe you need to reread. Saying something that happens when it does is not making anything "us vs them" it's stating that the idea of a killer letting survivors go is ridiculous and it is since it never happens in a real setting. It's not bias to say my own experiences
Keep in mind that many hundreds of killers can let people go all the time and you'll never notice it, because that's still a tiny percentage of the playerbase.
Also you must see that such killers are highly over-represented in this thread, as people who don't do that won't stop to say 'I don't do that'.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592667#Comment_3592667
not collectively, as the whole community.
It's definitely not collective. I barely ever see a dc as Merchant, and I highly doubt I'm at the mystical 'high mmr' with her.
I think it's only the bad, but even more so the stubborn players who dc.
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I can't care less of winning or surviving. Until I see the slightest chance of a save, I make a move.
So what if we all die? We can just go next.
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It's an anti-facecamp feature. It was meant to eliminate facecamping. You still need to get unhooked the old way if you are proxy-camped.
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Should we also only play Blight and Nurse with a full meta build to get them nerfed? Three birds with one stone!
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591977#Comment_3591977
Did you not read my first post? I just presented a scenario where getting an unhook was effectively impossible. I asked for a solution and you give me empty words.
You ran Oni around the hook. That effectively halts the AFC buildup, and was considered a terrible thing to do even before the introduction of the feature.
The solution is either luring him away from the hook so someone else can save, or trading hooks while two others do gens.
By the way - Blood Fury lasts 46 seconds, that's 14 seconds shorter than a hook state. You could also unhook after it runs out.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591960#Comment_3591960
Again, who cares? It's cold comfort for me and my dead teammate. The method doesn't matter if the outcome is the same.
If only the outcome matters and not the result, you won't feel comfortable until the killer can still kill you.
Proxy-camping has much more counterplay compared to facecamping. Go discover and master the methods!
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There is no issue with tunneling.
This is a game about killers, and many killers chose to be efficient.
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@TheGoodGuy said:
I tunnel. Tunnel can make survivors rage quit, or submit and stop running or try and kill themselves. I’m not here to justify what strategy makes me comfortable as a Killer, but if the survivor I’m trying to tunnel was a good sport about it. I usually don’t finish the last hook and just drop them next to a hook and leave them alone (or slug if they start body blocking).
- Tried to stay interactive in chase
- Didn’t give up
- Always struggled on shoulder
- No BM
Basically when we both know what I’m doing and you accept the situation and still do what you need to do for the team, without being toxic and seemingly asking me to focus you, then you’ll earn my respect and I’ll let you go.
In my mind, when you play like your treating tunneling as a valid strat and playing ‘normally’ then you have a good understanding of how it is for Killer, probably been in the trenches too and it’s like I lose all my motivation to kill you. I know I could Kill you, you know you should have died, we both know why I’m tunneling so…I’ll throw the game.
I dunno, it’s like when you’re in public and you see another version of yourself.
Im that survivor who gets tunneled out too, I do my best to loop, I don’t give up when I’m targeted over and over after unhook and I continue to struggle to give my team of strangers as much as I can before I get taken out. As more of a Tunneling Killer, I see so many give ups, team abandoning and over time I just became more sensitive and soft on the ones who keep trying and playing despite the overwhelming disadvantage (in a personal but not team level). I’ll have plenty of wins against the rage quitters and weak-minded survivors so, I don’t mind letting some games go if I find a Kindred spirit.
If I'm spared, I won't touch a gen for the rest of the trial. Mainly because I always wished the cute rookies I didn't finish off in the past did the same. Finding them on gens all the time afterwards always makes me question if I made the right call. :]
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591200#Comment_3591200
No...😔 But I can press M1 really well! Is that good enough?😀
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PMEXSP4PE346/dbd-dead-by-daylight.gif
You should also master holding 'W', and you are likely in the top 20% of survivors. :]
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Last one goes unless I really need that double-pip to secure the next Grade.
If the Mmrntity does an oppsie and I get 8-10 hooks at 3-4 gens, I tend to "ask" them if they want a farm or a quick sacrifice.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590637#Comment_3590637
Oh I know I won't get support for this from killers at all. But this post had to be made and this definitely had to be said. Huntresses hatchets in general.. that hitbox is an entirely different post lol, I did make one about it stating that the further away you are from the killer the bigger the hitbox should be because getting hit over a loop when your body is completely hidden and being hit around corners is another joke in its entirety.
Do you realize that Huntress has to reload at lockers? She can't just 'spam' that ability to no end.
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Facecamping was always a losing strategy. If you noticed no change, that's because you were already playing against decent killers.
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If every form of tunneling would be that easy to counter, nobody would consider it an issue.
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Resilience: - taking a massive risk and a perk-slot sounds fine to me for 9%
Deja Vu: the main objectives are shown all the time? How cool is that? Too bad they aren't running around the map, so it's only a QoL thing after the first few seconds
Prove Thyself: well, yes. But at least I can pressure them at the same time if I find them
Dying Light: wait... are we comparing bottom-of-the-barrel trash perks to the near meta ones? Strange.
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I feel we lack historical figures.
I think it will be Diogenes.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586401#Comment_3586401
I dunno about Fortnite, but in poker one player cannot completely seize another player’s ability to play the game—at the start of the game or at any point during the game. Maybe you could find a better analogy?
That's now how I've seen it in the movies. Usually there's only two remains by the end.
But sure - the indian board game Pachisi (better known as Ludo in this age) is likely more than three thousand years old, so tunneling is about as old as history. More modern examples would be Counter Strike, PUBG (or any Battle Royale), Fall Guys, Among Us. These are all games where a round doesn't end at the same time for all participants. I could list examples all day - I'm focusing on the most popular ones.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587434#Comment_3587434
The drones don't mark people who are stationary or crouching. In order for a SM to "force" a survivor to get a clawtrap, they would need to chase them off a gen towards a drone several times til a clawtrap comes on. Even then, the clawtrap has a 45 second timer, so those addons which require active clawtraps arnt getting a whole lot of value.
As far as OC+shotgun speakers... Are you a goldfish? You need the ding sound to remember there's gonna be a skillcheck right away? This should only surprise you once. After that, it's a survivor skill issue if they keep failing a predictable skillcheck.
No, you don't understand! Everyone knows the proper counterplay is complaining about it based on 1-3 baby-mmr test games until they delete the entire character!
Looking up actual mechanics and playing around them is illegal!
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Clown is super-flexible when it comes to builds - you can get good value from any non-trash perk if that fits your playstyle. But... if you are willing to feed a Cigar Box addiction you don't need info perks, and if you practice that yellow bottle you don't need pallet perks. I'd say an intermediate Clown should find his preferred balance of chase and slowdown, maybe with some utility.
I'm personally a follower 2-4 chase perks school, so I start builds with Coup + Rapid Brutality, then I decide if I want to follow up with STBFL + PWYF, or get creative instead.
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I wonder what percentage of those accusations and 'reported' calls happen without attached video.
I bet it's 90-something percent.
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UW maybe.
STBFL? A million bp says they won't. When was the last time they nerfed a chase perk?
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586408#Comment_3586408
4 random people is far better.
Not for me. I'm sure my matches would be very one-sided either way against the vast majority of dbd players. There are unimaginable masses of new players, and many many sweaty experienced ones. MM works well, as it prevents me from meeting them most of the time.
Many dbd players feel they always face either babies or comp players, while in truth both are pretty mediocre. There are much better and much worse players we don't face. Try playing extremely casual or extremely sweaty for 100 trials, and you'll see what I mean.
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There are many games where a round doesn't last equally long for every player. Some popular examples are Poker and Fortnite.
Dbd is also such a game.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
what’s a comp strat?
What you see in various competitive dbd scenes.
It's not a particularly engaging sight for the untrained eye. The typical trial lasts for about 6 minutes. Some describe it as tunneling vs genrushing.