Elan
Elan
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- Elan
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@Hiagmsp said:
.I’ve been a Sadako main ever since she was released — in fact, I started playing the game because of her, as she’s always been my favorite horror icon. However, I’d like to suggest a few changes to make her feel more threatening.
MANIFESTATION / DEMANIFESTATION:
Change: Make the lullaby while demanifested spread across the entire map.
Goal: Survivors should still be aware that she’s demanifested, but they shouldn’t be able to tell that she’s nearby just by the lullaby getting louder.
TVs:
Change: Completely remove the survivors’ ability to see the auras of nearby active TVs.
Goal: This would make the TVs more unpredictable, forcing survivors to search more carefully and increasing their tension.
Change: Increase the interaction time to insert or retrieve cursed videotapes from TVs to 2 seconds (as it was originally).
Goal: Give Sadako more time to teleport to a TV before being interrupted, and prevent survivors from easily returning tapes right in her face during chases.
CONDAMNATION:
Change: Remove the mechanic that blocks Condemned progress when hooking a survivor.
Goal: This mechanic works against the most effective gameplay style for The Onryō — focusing on Condemnation — and slows her down unnecessarily, especially considering her extremely weak chase potential.
Change: Survivors holding a cursed videotape should passively gain 1 stack of Condemned every 24 seconds.
Goal: Make cursed tapes a real and constant threat for those who carry them. This also pays homage to the original films, where failing to copy and spread the tape within 24 hours brought people closer to death — in the game, this would be 24 seconds without delivering the tape.
I believe these changes would make The Onryō stronger without making her overpowered. They would reduce her dependency on map layouts or survivor mistakes, while enhancing her unique Condemnation mechanic and creating more consistent pressure throughout the match.
Problem with current Sadako is how quickly she can stack condemend by spamming ports. Especially on indoor maps. You get 5 stacks in 30s of the game while actively turning off TVs. This is aspect that needs to be looked at if she should get some tweaks. Overall I don't think she's in state where she needs adjustment over other killers that need it way more.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971615#Comment_3971615
It wouldn't take anything away. Victor can still be controlled with my idea. Charlotte and Victor just need a little more spice to their kit.
I understand that. But Twins are lost, there is no way to make them fun for either side without reworking them or incentiving them to not slug. Twins overall have most counterpicks and have hard counterplay but when teams know what they are doing, Twins are not even that strong. The fact that BHVR tried and have up makes me feel that they will not be touched really, apart from some weird tweaks like chase triggering by Victor, which caused a lot of sound bugs.
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@GeneralV said:
Yes, while I am having more fun with her than any other killer in DBD's history, sometimes it is unfairly difficult to get value out of your power, unless survivors make zero effort to avoid drones.
She could really use a reversion. Not a rework. Reversion. Though I personally think a reversion to Merchant 2.0 would be safer than 1.0 (I don't oppose either, just think 2.0 is more likely to be accepted).
No. Skull Merchant 2.0 was same misery as 1.0. Zero skill expression, zero fun, zero interactivity. She was basically mix of Clown and Artist.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
Most unhealthiest killer slowdown perk in the game currently BY FAR. 50s is such an absurd amount of time to block off a single gen. I actually think the previous version was more fair because not only did it last way less, but it also had a strict time window to get value off of it with the longer it took for a survivor to let go of the gen, the less effective it was. The new version is just so overpowered at an always 50s blockage and it honestly synergizes better with other slowdowns when it only affects one gen at a time.
I think DMS has always been an unhealthy perk that always gets broken by synergy with something else and truthfully, I don't think there's anyway to truly balance the perk without a complete rework.
My two suggestions to better balance this perk would be to either revert the perk entirely the way it was before, but make it where it only triggers when the survivors manually get off the gen on their own accord so no other perk that forces survivors off gens will trigger it with maybe a slight duration increase to 35s to compensate, or keep the current design, but massively lower it to 25s.
Big agree. Vigil and Dead man's Switch are insanely unhealthy.
DMS change - upon hooking timer of 50s goes. If any surivivor stops repairing generator for at least 3s, the gen is blocked for reminder of the duration.
Vigil - no longer stacks, no longer reduces exposed duration, no longer gives 40 % but rather 30 % value.
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@conradoo said:
Object of Obsession is supposed to offer a strategic advantage through aura reading. However, against stealth killers (like Ghost Face, The Shape, or The Wraith), it often works against the survivor. Instead of being a "perk," it becomes a debuff, revealing the survivor’s position while giving nothing in return.
I propose a simple and fair adjustment:
If the survivor is not seeing the killer's aura, then the killer shouldn't see the survivor's aura either.
This ensures the perk is neutralized—not overpowered, not underpowered—when the killer is undetectable, rather than becoming a liability. This is not a buff, just a fix to stop the perk from punishing players in specific matchups. Survivors shouldn't be penalized for using what should be a strategic tool.
I don't play OOO since it's nerf, but I feel that the best OOO is when you are not obsession. So you get infor about Lethal, BBQ, add ons… the 30s window autoread hurts more than help. While old object was hated by killers, it wasn't really because the perk itself was overpowered, but because people been toxic, put it on and teabagged, were annoying etc. If they made it simply that if killer sees you, you see him. I'll be all for. But current version doesn't even fit the idenetity of the perk neither the name as the purpose of laurie's perk was to have killer's attention and once you are last standing, you can track him while being stealthy.
Edit: You currently have more powerfull perk than old OOO was and it's Fogwise. That benefits one side only, what makes OOO always the wrong pick.
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@QuantumEcho said:
These two add-ons for Springtrap greatly enhances his power but in reality, half of the people that play Springtrap never run these two add-ons at all and run something like Bonnie's guitar or the buffed endo cpu or Foxy's hook, which makes me believe that these two add-ons need to become base-kit for Springtrap as half of the survivors that play Dead by Daylight bring exhaustion perks and can just sprint away before Springtrap even comes out one of his doors and half of the Springtrap players are not really good at aim and making the restaurant menu add-on base-kit on Springtrap would be a good change for new players who are not the best at aim.
Springtrap is already pretty damn strong killer, with insane zoning, great antiloop and possible most overpowered teleports in the game, on top of that he has one of most broken add ons ever existing in the game. Defienetly not needing basekit changes. People always run what they feel is most powerfull or most fun. Doesn't mean everything else should become basekit.
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@TheGoon224 said:
I’ve always found this genuinely confusing because there have been no attempts to balance her after her first rework’s PTB? people really just cried loud enough and behavior was just like (fine, we’ll knee cap her.) hell, if they made any attempts to balance her at all after the we probably wouldn’t even be getting this rework. The main culprit was obviously the stacking haste but also the fact that there was no real signal as to when you were safe from a drone beam. fix those two problems and skull merchant would’ve been easier to deal with deal with, but that isn’t what they did they reworked her, did nothing about her for a year, and then proceeded to send her into the depths so that no one would play her. And you know it’s speaking of the rework why a ranged power? Skull merchant’s whole point is to track you down so that she can kill you up close and personal, unless her methods changed I have no clue where the idea for this rework came from. And keep in mind skull merchant can take control of these drones now, you thought og chess merchant was bad well just wait until the rework because this time she doesn’t even need to be there to interrupt you she can just sit on the couch with a bag of Doritos and make the drone to do it for her. And keep in mind there’s like a good chance that no one is going to like this rework OG merchant players aren’t going to like it because their favorite killer was shot in the foot, and got replaced by something else entirely. And people that already didn’t like merchant are still not gonna like merchant. They’re just trying to appeal to some imaginary playerbase they think will just spawn in all because skully got new power and a murdered identity.
Problem with SM rework was how passive, boring and uninteractive she was. Whole game against Merchant was:
Go into loop, she deploys drone. If you get scanned she get's haste and keep bloodlusting untill you get injured by drone, hit or leave loop. Once you leave loop, if you made it to other one whole scenario repeated if not, you get hit. It was same like old instadrop guard Knight.
History:
- Chess Merchant
- Clown Merchant
- Sad Merchant
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@TheGoon224 said:
I’ve always found this genuinely confusing because there have been no attempts to balance her after her first rework’s PTB? people really just cried loud enough and behavior was just like (fine, we’ll knee cap her.) hell, if they made any attempts to balance her at all after the we probably wouldn’t even be getting this rework. The main culprit was obviously the stacking haste but also the fact that there was no real signal as to when you were safe from a drone beam. fix those two problems and skull merchant would’ve been easier to deal with deal with, but that isn’t what they did they reworked her, did nothing about her for a year, and then proceeded to send her into the depths so that no one would play her. And you know it’s speaking of the rework why a ranged power? Skull merchant’s whole point is to track you down so that she can kill you up close and personal, unless her methods changed I have no clue where the idea for this rework came from. And keep in mind skull merchant can take control of these drones now, you thought og chess merchant was bad well just wait until the rework because this time she doesn’t even need to be there to interrupt you she can just sit on the couch with a bag of Doritos and make the drone to do it for her. And keep in mind there’s like a good chance that no one is going to like this rework OG merchant players aren’t going to like it because their favorite killer was shot in the foot, and got replaced by something else entirely. And people that already didn’t like merchant are still not gonna like merchant. They’re just trying to appeal to some imaginary playerbase they think will just spawn in all because skully got new power and a murdered identity.
My feedback about people's feedback on skull merchant rework — BHVR
Read this, I came with quite decent rework idea as well as keeping her trap/stealth identity.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I was really hoping that after waiting a couple of years we were going to get…well…a rework with her. I really don't like using that word around here due to reputation respectfully, but twins really didn't change much. A few little tweaks, okay sure. Then some number changes.
That's as exciting as it got. I wasn't around for when Twins released so I can't really say much on the killer but from what I do know, this killer requires you to slug…A lot. I know we are trying to move out of that playstyle to a degree, but hey Knight and Oni still exist among anyone I can't think of right now. Meanwhile Sadako gets the anti-slug treatment.
Any who - I digress…Regarding the twins, on a serious note. If we were to rework her power. How would she work? What would she do? What would victor do? What would his role be?
I know people are going to hate this idea - but its just an idea. It doesn't mean anything, but give Victor duality. One feature you can control him if you desire, but he can't down you. The other feature is you can change to where Ai controls him but he can down. (Doesn't have to in this mode either if its too strong)
I know I know. I must like pain because of Ai.. lol. I just enjoy the possibilities.
To your idea. Victor is the only fun element about Twins as Charlotte is powerless M1 killer. Removing Victor from kit or giving him Ai would make those 3 people who play them to not play them. I feel that Twins identity is kinda strong because they were first macro multitasking killer in DBD before BHVR decided to give every new killer teleports or zooming speed.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I was really hoping that after waiting a couple of years we were going to get…well…a rework with her. I really don't like using that word around here due to reputation respectfully, but twins really didn't change much. A few little tweaks, okay sure. Then some number changes.
That's as exciting as it got. I wasn't around for when Twins released so I can't really say much on the killer but from what I do know, this killer requires you to slug…A lot. I know we are trying to move out of that playstyle to a degree, but hey Knight and Oni still exist among anyone I can't think of right now. Meanwhile Sadako gets the anti-slug treatment.
Any who - I digress…Regarding the twins, on a serious note. If we were to rework her power. How would she work? What would she do? What would victor do? What would his role be?
I know people are going to hate this idea - but its just an idea. It doesn't mean anything, but give Victor duality. One feature you can control him if you desire, but he can't down you. The other feature is you can change to where Ai controls him but he can down. (Doesn't have to in this mode either if its too strong)
I know I know. I must like pain because of Ai.. lol. I just enjoy the possibilities.
That's fair point. I was there before they came into game and i must say, that untill then I never had so much fun playing killer. Twins were extremely fun, sadly extremely buggy and were released unfinished. Victor couldn't hold people in locker, he was dying nonstop on some minimal elevations etc. They were never above top 3 least picked killer to the point where it seemed like BHVR don't care. I was extremely happy when they announced that Twins are getting rework. Sadly, it took 2.5 years to deploy and the rework was absolutely crazy, to the point where they were so overpowered that people would hate them as much as Ghoul or old Chess Merchant. So the rework were scrapped and almost 3 years of waiting turned into few basekit add ons, which is pretty sad. If I count how much resources they gave to killers who didn't need it as much, it's sad. But people gave up on Twins too. They are still somewhat fun to play, but good twins are obnoxious to deal with. If you ask me, as one of few Twins main how would I rework that, the answer is obvious.
Victor: Can now perform hook interaction, similiar to 2v8 mode, forcing him to cooldown, removing the urge to go there with Charlotte and lose all the time. Not even talking about upcoming antislug features, where Twins have to slug to pick up and hook.
So my idea is that Victor can still latch onto people, but instead of downing people and going on, he can chose to sent them onto hook instead or hold them down for Charlotte to pick up, giving her boost similiar to Slipstream Houndmaster. This would incentive Twins to not slug, while providing Charlotte easier time to approach and utilize their hook related perks. My Twins build, as I don't really play them as much is similiar or almost same for a long time, because the variety isn't as possible when I spend 80 % cruising around map breaking pallets and picking people.
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@Kalavinka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971245#Comment_3971245
Fair! What aspects of the gameplay do you think would detract from player fun? I really like workshopping this sort of thing and improving upon concepts.
I was wondering about giving him two abilities:
Feral Frenzy: works as now
Rapid frenzy: lock ability to attack, giving him increase speed instead, let's say truly high to make him both mobile and lethal. I'd even make that a blighted rush speed.
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@Kalavinka said:
Hi Behaviour!
I love your game, your killer designs, and your lore. However, I personally feel that Legion's gameplay doesn't really match what people expected based on their lore or the trailer. I know they're very popular among killer players for a reason (and therefore any changes should be carefully assessed); but I also know a lot of survivors find the "mending simulator" experience frustrating and jarring, while a lot of Legion fans would enjoy something that fits their "killer fantasy" more.
As a result, I've created a Legion rework concept inspired by the Darkness Among Us trailer, focused on the idea of making all four members realistically playable in a single trial while creating suspenseful gameplay that keeps survivors constantly guessing which member is the most dangerous at any given time. If any ideas from this would be useful - great! If not, I'd still love to hear community thoughts on it.
Check out this screenfake for a description of their proposed power:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QLLN4PYGTZUF/legion-rework-all-four.png
Now, the concept of an "Among Us style killer" is a meme because SWF communications outside of the game could easily nullify any attempt to disguise as survivors. However, these "false survivors" are not actually intended to fool anybody: each member of the Legion looks exactly like a member of the Legion, so players will know what's happening when they see them. Their presence as "fake survivors" exists for other gameplay reasons instead, as well as to convey the Legion's genre of horror as a group of dangerous killers hiding among good people - "Darkness Among Us" indeed.
Even knowing what the fake survivors really are, it's impossible to avoid all of the Legion members for the entire game. This means players will have to co-exist with the impostors on the map regardless, and strategically assess which one is and is not currently being player-controlled (and therefore likely to pull out a knife and start stabbing). This results in a continuous mind-game between survivors and the killer. While the killer is trying to strategically manoeuvre their team of teenage backstabbers to corner their targets, the survivors are trying to identify gaps in the Legion player's attention to thwart their efforts and kick the impostors off of generators.
In short: it looks and feels like the Legion have infiltrated the survivors, except players on both sides know exactly what's going on.
The image above is just a summary. It doesn't consider exact numbers for the Legion's power, nor does it describe the exact mechanics in place to prevent player cheese. If you want to read more, check out the Google doc I wrote up on it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MIf-icC2MQch1MSozh2beHXau4VMnKWd3sGIBUnw2Fc/edit?tab=t.0
Thanks for your time in reading!
I don't think imposter-type killer will be more fun to verse than current scamper legion. I would give him something else.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971204#Comment_3971204
- doesnt work if the object is too big or too small
- doesnt work if they are close enough to punish you for that
- doesnt work because he can hit regardless due to high speed except in a handful of tiles
- same thing as 2 + not chase counterplay
- doesnt work if they have patience
- perks are not counterplay, they are a counterpick.
so yeah, there isnt much I can do about it in chase, it's very binary and boring. either I have a setup that makes victor useless or I dont, most of the time I dont so I can only resort to running to the nearest locker and make killer waste fixed amount of time. It feels no different than playing against original legion - you just waste fixed amount of time and try to outgenrush and outposition them. It's not interactive.
If those things I mentioned don't work I'd not name them. Trust me, when I go against Twins, they suffer. :D If they are played more and people know the limits they have, they would be B tier at best.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971195#Comment_3971195
what is twins counterplay in chase?
what exactly do I do against backrevving victor following me at 5.2 m/s (or 5.6 m/s with an addon)?
loop around a rock which is pretty much useless most of the time?
or do I try to fov juke them when they can just wait out?
there's no valid counterplay to them in chase, its not even a 50, just "hope they are bad". the entirety of twins counterplay is teamwork and juggling them around the map hoping you can outgenrush and outheal them faster than they bleed you out. they are the least interactive killer in the game when it comes to the main skill expression in it which is chase.
Very good to ask me as Twins are one of my multimains. Counter to Vicor is:
→ every small objects, like tree, rocks etc. he has window to charge, so as long as you keep eye on him he will never be able to down you as you rotate that object back and forth.
→ Locker, before it works that if you were out of TR you always managed to get out before Charlotte comes, now you need a little knowledge about her position. Defienetly in the start she will be far away, but pinpointing her position is extremely helpful. She has faster recovery, so it's 1.5s shorter window to shove the doors.
→ Pallets predrop, each side has higher end, if you lock yourself behind it, Victor has to go around and charge again, as long as you keep eye on him he can't down you. Predropping good pallets is always a lose-lose to him. The only way for Victor to down you over pallet is to be at right position, by that time you have object to cover yourself.
→ Lockers, if you see Victor charge pounce hop into locker, he has to cancel to lock you in, as he cancels hop out, when you see him charging again hop in, again he can't hit you.
→ Obviously, spinning Victor can work too, but is not way as reliable.
→ On top of that any healing, endurance, recover perks work twice as good against Twins
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@SpringMyTrap said:
twins
a killer whose entire power design is "uncounterable chase power compensated by extreme clunkiness with hooking people which in turn is compensated by slug heavy playstyle" is just awful to play and face.
on a side note, i hate facing huntress, but i think she's pretty balanced and overall okay killer that doesnt really need changes.
Twins is the killer with most possible counterplay, what are you even talking about? :D
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@TheGoon224 said:
just curious
Least fun to play as: Myers, Freddy
Least fun to play against: Knight, Trickster
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@MeduSnake said:
So I play this game not so often and wanted to try out the killer side more. I tried different killers but I have the same problem on all of them. It feels like someone cut out 5 minutes of the match and I just see what happens afterwards. What I mean?
For example I played Oni yesterday and I chased a survivor. When I finished the chase 1 generator was finished everthing fine. I immediately found a new survivor and started the next chase. So 2 out of 4 survivors don't do gens. But when I'm finished with that chase, that maybe took a Minute, I'm down to 2 generators and the third survivor is unhooked and healed.
Like I said I'm newer and don't know every mind game but it sometimes feels like I don't have any control over the match and just watch a movie where half of it is missing.
The urge to rush is caused by a few things:
→ You are swf and try hard to win
→ A lot of killers are not super fun to go agaisnt
→ Map resources can be quite limited
→ Killer is not very good
→ A lot of fun elements been removed for price of healthier game
→ Randoms are never truly responsible teammates
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970776#Comment_3970776
You are going like extremely deep and i think you are exaggerating a tiny bit. Even if they made OTR/DS to go off when you heal to full is not going to of all sudden multiply tunneling x200 and make the game of all sudden far worse.
However… i must admit that i didnt think about the syringe addon and that could definetly be a problem as it is instant and a teammate can just deactivate your anti-tunnel perks even if you dont want it.
I think it could be coded for those cases. But still…. when it is really considered "tunneling"? It is usually when you go after the same person just after he got unhooked, but if you are already full healed the chase is fully reset 100%, so i think it loses a bit of the meaning of "tunneling".
I understand it. Fully heal = you are more likely resist being tunneled. But you have to think how wide is the roaster. While tunneling as Wesker, Pig, Demo… can take some time, killers like Billy, Nurse, Kaneki… can tunnel someone out extremely quickly. At the moment, there is no reason to punish altruism. Losing collision though, i agree.
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@kCauek said:
Balance Suggestion: Prevent Speed Perks from Stacking
My suggestion is simple but could solve many current survivor meta issues:
Instead of nerfing individual perks like Made for This, why not prevent speed-increasing perks from stacking?
🧠 How it would work:
The game allows only 1 active speed buff at a time.
If multiple speed perks are active (like Made for This, Hope, Adrenaline, Overcome, Sprint Burst, etc.), only the highest speed bonus applies.
The others remain inactive until the higher effect ends.
✅ Why is this better than nerfing perks individually?
- Preserves the individual value of perks
Made for This would still be useful on its own, without being harshly nerfed. - Prevents extreme combo abuse
Builds like Made for This + Overcome + Hope + Adrenaline created survivors with absurd speeds (4.4 m/s or more), making it very hard for killers with 110% or 115% speed. - Makes the game fairer for both sides
This limit would bring more balance without killing survivors’ creativity in perk builds. - Already used in other game mechanics
DBD’s status system already prioritizes conflicting effects, like Endurance and Exhausted.
The same principle could apply to speed buffs.
🔧 In-game practical example:
A survivor is injured with Made for This active (+3%)
The exit gates power up and Hope activates (+7%)
The game applies only the highest bonus (Hope, 7%)
When Hope ends, Made for This kicks back in
🙏 Conclusion:
This change is simple, fair, and effective.
It keeps perks useful but prevents unbalanced perk combinations from dominating the meta.
The goal is not to limit playstyles but to preserve balance between killers and survivors.It's not a long time since they ontroduce haste and hindre stacking removal and no one liked it so they revert it. While individual perks without combos are not as great. Pairing perks like batteries and rapid is insane.
- Preserves the individual value of perks
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970767#Comment_3970767
I know the reasons why it was added, what i meant it that it doesnt make sense that it deactivates when starting to heal but not when someone heals you to full. The interesting part is the last thing you said: "its your decision". But you can also stop being healed at any time if you want, so being healed to full its also your decision, the same as healing yourself.
It's simple. It's not added to altruistic heals to not be abusable with syringes, some perks etc. It's main source of antitunnel that was a big step towards healthier game. While I'd argue that people with endurance might lose collision with killers, doing step back with deactivating antitunnel on altruistic actions is just straight contraproductive. 3-4 years back the game was in completely different and insanely unhealthier state for both sides, with a lot of balance done to perks, playstyles and maps both sides now have way more managable scenarios.
Ex1: You played Pig on old Thompson House that had total of 32 pallets and way stronger main building, you down someone after ages and they ratted in, pressed one button and the person was compeltely healthy.
Ex2: You got hooked, someone unhooked you, you have no base bt, random didn!t have bt, killer downed you within few seconds and moried you.
Ex3: You played killer, back then with only a few available slowdowns. You managed to kill two people and two survivors escaped through hatch for free.
Etc., etc. No point in punishing altruism when altruism was maint point to reach. As I said, people with endurance losing collisions with killer, why not. But doing steps back in game health, no. There are already 70 % of very strong killers that can down you quite quickly if they truly want to and not punishing tunneling would just make it even more played playstyle. The true thing game needs is to raise strenght of those 5 killers who suck.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970746#Comment_3970746
Out of curiosity… then why does it deactivate at the moment you start healing yourself? Same example can apply, the killer can go back for the tunnel easily after you start healing yourself.
It was mainly added because people with decisive strike were doing gens providing them invincibility. Since then they added consicious actions - healing self, blessing, cleansing… deactivating any source of endurance and decisive strike. So If you are unhook and want to heal yourself at price of deactivating antitunnel when killer can immidiately come back, it's your decision.
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@Anti051 said:
OTR needs to remove player collision while active and deactivate when fully healed by any means. No more nonsense, please.
Nonsense is to deactivate antitunnel by altruistic heal. Only idiot will sit on hook, if you move away they'll have time to heal and you can go for the tunnel easily. It's like if you say that if gen get's exploded it would prevent from being blocked.
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@beerey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969632#Comment_3969632
Ghoul's whole chase lethality, if you neglect power vaults of course, comes from the 2 second cancel cooldown, make it any higher and you effectively strip away his whole identity.
Dash Killers usually have higher cooldowns on their powers because they can down DIRECTLY with them like Blight for example who has a 2.5 sec miss cooldown. The main outlier is Vecna who has a 2.75 sec fatigue after ending Fly even if he cannot hit survivors directly while using it and that's because the spell itself is not meant to guarantee downs, Mage Hand and Flight of The Damned are meant for that.
Not to mention that a higher cancel cooldown for Ghoul would still not help survivors in scenarios where they literally have no resources near them, similar to every dash killer in the game.
Also a lot of people seem to be unaware of the fact that pressing the 'cancel Kagune Leap' button while Ghoul is leaping makes it so he enters the fatigue only after the dash itself ends, not during it.
You're never meant to be holding W against Ghoul in chase if his power isn't on cooldown, you're forced to play and stick by the tile, and then hold W if the Ghoul player either misplays or if they decide to break a pallet which puts their power on cooldown.
By the way, Made For This does make a big difference if you're deep wounded against Ghoul. But of course that's only the case if you're in a tile as survivor and not in the middle of nowhere.
Oh and one last thing, Ghoul's power vaults just lead to extremely boring gameplay on both sides. It's obnoxiously strong, especially by taking kidnap-tech into the equation, if the survivor doesn't know how to directly counter it (you literally need to go on Twitter and search for counterplay), and when the survivor does know how to counter his power vault, it practically becomes useless if Ghoul isn't both in Enraged mode and using his first leap to latch onto a survivor and vault a pallet, which is also unhealthy and skilless design.
Made for this makes you cross 126m (map distance) 1.5s faster. It has no impact in short bursts.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970174#Comment_3970174
Why would it demolish Solo Q? It wouldn't if they paid attention. Let go of the gen when you see the killer hooking. And if that's somehow too difficult for you, let go of the gen when the killer picks up.
And your story about your solo q woes isn't really my problem. We shouldn't balance the game around bad players.
This game is not competitive and shouldn't be balance around knowledge about every aspect of possible scenarios. As I mentioned it's like old eruption, while in teams it was useless perk, in solo q it's absolute stomper.
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@DeBecker said:
You cant prove something thats not the real deal.
People are saying that the games are hard and unwinable because of healing is too busted. You can found quite a few posts here. As I stated I haven't attend a single dedicated healing build. Thus, the side effect of panic is not based on real issues.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970187#Comment_3970187
yeah I regretted a lot of these changes. really the only changes that I would actually want are for the axe hit box to lineup more with huntress’s, the increased grab range, and a Nerf to his undetectable because tell me how this MF gets 20 seconds of more undetectable for traveling through a security door that’s pre-placed right in front of a generator, but Demogorgon has to manually place his portals and only gets five seconds?
Sadly, BHVR gives every killer some sort of teleport or movement speed which by itself gives insane inbalance between new and old killers. Tell me why Springtrap has really strong antiloop, cross map teleport without any restrictions, pretty busted add ons and then we have killers like Trapper, Skull Merchant, Pig or Myers? Even Pyramid Head sucks at this point, his antiloop is not bad, but eh has no map mobility no map pressure, absolutely nothing. How you can compete between killers when one has to spend 40s running cross map, while other can be there within 3s? I just don't get it.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970248#Comment_3970248
I mean, its not really needed to go that deep, honestly. If they can weaponize an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be looked at.
Yes, that doesn't mean there are other things that needs fixing in this game, on that i completely agree. But my point still persist: survivors should not be able to weaponize an anti-tunnel perk when the killer is not tunneling, no matter if that doesn't happen "a lot" or it does.
I don't think that one of main antitunnel perk should be nerfed just because one of 50 games someone will block with it. I see blocking with base bt much more often and at this point, if they force you to tunnel, then be it.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970211#Comment_3970211
So it is totally fine for the survivor to bodyblock the killer taking advantage of OTR?
Keep in mind that my main point of the discussion was mostly on weaponizing OTR. Usually a healthy survivor will take one hit trying to cover a mate. Two if they dont mind to be downed if they are desperate to save them.
Problem is people get healed and go bodyblock survivor and by how much time OTR stays on, they have plenty of time to do it, and they can now block up to 3 hits safely.
The main question is, why on this case i am being punished by an "anti-tunnel" perk when i am trying my hardest to not tunnel?
True, they can. But how many times that happened to you? How many times people try to do that? People really crying about nonsenses while truly busted thingsthat are common exist. Surely you should punish people for altruistic gameplay removing any element other than "sit on gens" from the game, leaving it even more lose-lose, win-win scenarios. more people of gen the better. People really don't understand the game mechanics and want the game to be as easy as possible win "only one condition" to play. I play both sides, more of killer. But everyone should understand that half a killer don't care about OTR because their kit and more off gen actions happen the higher your odds of winning. If you want the game to become the gameplay of survivor = sit on gens, killer = tunnel and camp then surely. I feel the game needs to adjust stronger and weaker killers more in line along with stonger and weaker maps and than adjusting the core.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970192#Comment_3970192
Response from Q&A
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OPH841EKDJC5/screenshot-20250724-111148-526.png
@UndeddJester wrote reasonable possible outcome that would fit that description about it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/APQ1S6XKHWXB/image.png
I think it's definetly better, than previous concepts they showed. Just keep stealth and I am happy….I think both drone buddy and passive lethality were kinda criticized.
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@albertoplus said:
I don't really understand why survivors are able to weaponize OTR by getting in front of the killer when healed and being able to tank 2 hits?
If you are healed to full, you are definetly not being tunneled. I could argue it should be the same for DS.
It is not that easy as "just hit the survivor", as now is not enough to hit them once but twice. Hell if they have DS they can still tank a 3rd hit, knowing that being down will not be a problem at all, while their mate and the original target can keep chaining loops forever.
Its a lose-lose situation for the killer. Also yes the survivor weaponizing the perk is not doing gens, but probably their two mates are. If you keep with the chase it will last a hell tons of time. If you decide to leave the chase then you have already lost time in it and leading into nothing just because the survivor could tank an extra hit that he shouldn't be able to.
The worst part is that im not even trying to tunnel, i am actively trying to get the other survivor but i am being punished by one of the "anti-tunneling" perks.
This would make no sense. If you run ds/resurgence meta or teammate has we'll make it and you have OTR then it doesn't mean you are not about to get tunneled. Killer can proxaycamp or immiditealy come back for you. The only way to get antitunnel would be if killer stays at hook and follows you after someone traded which makes absolutely no sense. Game design atm is shifting towards more healthy state. I'm still suprised how people want to do steps back that took ages to do. EGC is already killer friendly, and if someone is playing tunnel playstyle idm, but I don't see any reason why antitunnel should be removed while altruistically healed, not even saying that some killers have way easier time to tunnel than others. And if survivor heals himself, he already lost the protection so there is no problem.
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@GeneralV said:
Greetings, friends of the Fog! I hope this thread finds you doing well.
As you may know or may not know, the Skull Merchant recently surpassed Freddy and became my favorite killer in Dead By Daylight. I am having more fun with her than I did with Old Freddy, and considering how much I loved Old Freddy, that is saying something.
The problem, however, is that this fun has, possibly, an expiration date. It is no secret that Skull Merchant is set to be reworked in early 2026, as recently confirmed by the developers during the Reddit AMA. Said confirmation comes well after two design previews that were, in my opinion, really bad. Not only they presented a killer that would be boring to play as and against, but also completely erased her identity and replaced with dash and mid-range M2, things we already have more than enough of.
The reassurance came from the fact that the design previews were, well, previews. They were not final, they could be subjected to changes and, most importantly, could be used to collect feedback. From what I've seen, Skull Merchant players were clear when expressing their dislike of the identity erasure, even in discussions that happened after said previews. However, when the future of Skull Merchant was mentioned in the Reddit AMA yesterday, the response wasn't exactly promising:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/00EKN8E0Y3WR/image.png
There are three different things to unpack here. I've already covered them in a recent thread posted by @jasonq500, but I would like to go over each of them in more detail here:
"Retain trap playstyle". This one is good and there are no negatives about it. Preserving the trap playstyle is extremely important and I was happy when I read it. The other two, however, are far more concerning.
"Remove passive lethality". This one is mixed. When I first read it, I thought it was a contradiction. Because trap killers have passive lethality, that is the point of a trap killer. The active part of their playstyle is setting up and creating your web, and this web of traps they create passively acquires results. This is true for Trapper and Hag. Trapper doesn't manually control his traps to go around the map chomping survivors, and Hag doesn't move her phantasms until a teleport is available. These killers have passive gains, that is how it should work.
However, here there is a possibility that they meant something similar to her original design. If you recall, Skull Merchant's drones originally exposed you and applied the claw trap, but they didn't injure you. If that is what they mean, then it is okay.
"The Buddy Drone": this one is, by far, the worst of the three, and easily the most concerning. As of the moment this post is being written, the only information we have regarding this feature is the second design preview, where the Buddy Drone was exactly what she shouldn't have: ranged M2. I believe I speak for most SM mains here when I say that, if we wanted to play a M2 killer, we wouldn't have chosen Skull Merchant. There are plenty of other killers with projectiles and ranged M2 attacks. Skull Merchant shouldn't become another one of those.
I strongly believe this drone companion should either do something else entirely or, ideally, never get added.
Now, we still have to wait for a third design preview to understand what, exactly, they are proposing. But I believe it is important to have an early discussion here and hopefully prevent her from becoming some sort of ranged-Singularity thing where you control a drone, manually apply a claw trap then down someone with a copy-pasted M2. I don't believe Skull Merchant should become this kind of killer. I don't think she should become anything other than who she is. And the preservation of identity, especially in a killer that was treated unfairly after the first rework, is of extreme importance.
With all that being said, I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter. What do you think this means for Skull Merchant's future?
Remember, every opinion is welcome here!
I dislike the range attack and controlling drones ideas too. They'd do best if they give her 4 different types of drones - one gives you stealth, one exposes, one explodes, one is flying around map stealthily, giving you infos about how gens are progressed, if they spot survivors or open chests or something, giving you visual clue. They can leave the ability to scan map with radat for infos, but unless it's guaranteed scan similiar to doctor, it would be pointless.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
It was definetly possible to save Skully 2.0, but sadly they didn't want to bother, or just failed to see how.
Version they talked about in Q&A is definetly better than any "control based" version they talked before. Those would fail so hard…
I just want her to keep stealth, don't really care much about rest. I am fine if drones will be used just for information, that's still more than they do now…
Also give her better Mori animation!Excuse me, what have they said? Ty for infos. I dissmised it.
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@pigslittlepet said:
this is exactly what it says. she doesn't need a rework. she needs her current kit buffed back into viability. the fans of her (me included) aren't playing her because she's strong or effective. we are playing her because we enjoy her playstyle and her power. a rework now after this long of us playing her like this is just a spit in the face of those that enjoy her. if the rework keeps her current playstyle and her stealth then i'll eat these words and say thank you to BHVR. keep her stealth potential and her tag system. these are integral to enjoying her power. if that goes out the window with a rework then that just means Bhvr cares more about satisfying people who hated her then the people who actually main the killer. i know i come off hostile but i just want justice served for my main and i fear greatly that she will receive the trickster treatment. i have over 6000 hours in this game and i never truly clicked with a killer until i landed on skully. yes i played tons of killers and had fun but i never became a true killer main until her first rework. if they take that away i'm going to be very sad. please Bhvr. don't butcher my main.
I enjoyed gen grabbing Spirit, does it mean she should stay? No. The problem with Skull Merchant is that she has no interactivity on either side. Skull Merchant 2.0 was all about deploy drone, get faster and cause hinder… bloodlust. No interactivity on any side, absolutely passive boring playstyle. People say but Clown, sure… do you feel playing against Clown anything interesting? He slows you and you either predrop pallet or get hit. Same was with Skull Merchant, she got up to 7 % haste and survivor got 10 % hindred when scanned. And all that drop drone in loop, bloodlust for hit and repeat was insanely boring on both sides, that's why her killrate was about 90 % because it was so insanely boring that people rather killed themselves, you want that back? You sure? Look at Kaneki, 50 % community hates him, 50 % community loves him. And people again are quitting against him a lot, because there is nothing interesting about going against Ken. You get hit, he leaps to you cancel and hit you 1s later. Indeed, BHVR rework for Skull Merchant seems way more interactive, while probably won't do much about overall killer strenght. But buffing Skull Merchant's kit back to it's previous version is just step back in game health and makes no sense to do so.
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@TheGoon224 said:
these are just suggestions that I think would make the animatronic a lot smoother to play while also trying to make him fair on both sides (keyword being try)
reduce the time it takes to retrieve the axe from the environment to 5 seconds (was 7)
Increase the grab range to 4 meters (was 3)
Increase grab detection to 48° (was 45°)
Increase the survivor axe detection range to 1 meter (was 0.55)
Reduce the volume of Springtrap’s footsteps
Reduce the volume of the audio notification when Springtrap is being revealed because it genuinely hurts my ears
Springtrap now gets a directional notification when being revealed by a security camera (kinda like Ghostface whenever survivors are revealing him)
Reduce travel time between security doors for Springtrap to 2.8 seconds (was 3)
Reduce the undetectable effect from exiting a security door to 10 seconds (was 20)
When a survivor reveals Springtrap with the Security camera it will restore 10% of the that door’s battery
Reduce the time it takes to travel between security doors to 4.5 (was 5)
(currently survivors have no real encouragement to use this security doors so these buffs will actually make them worth using but I did slightly takes to reveal him, how long he is revealed, and how long it takes for a camera to reboot)
Increase the time it takes to reveal Springtrap to 5 seconds (was 4)
Increase duration Springtrap is revealed to 12 seconds (was 10)
Increase the amount of time security doors to reboot to 50 seconds (was 45)
Reduce the amount of time it takes to remove the axe from another survivor to 4 seconds (was 5)
those are all the changes I would like personally I’m too tired to do add-ons but I hope that people like these changes 👍
Springtrap is already very good killer and you want to buff 85 % of his kit? Dude stop. Let balanced killer be as they are, we need bad killers to be better.
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@AerinRockstarTTV said:
I wanted to ask this on the reddit page but couldn't find the time, and no one seems to be asking this, but I find it frustrating that killers can go against Survivor bots in customs to test things, and we don't have killer bots in customs, I also think it would be better for newer players if killer bots and survivor bots were put into a separate queue for newer players to learn the game better or just anyone who gets tired of playing against sweaty teams or sweaty killers, I know alot of other games have bots mode, and it would be nice if in the future bots could be mind gamed in this bots mode specifically if not in the base game as well, would be cool if killer bots would also mind game time to time. DBD Mobile had something similar and I think was great, however I think the killer bots from 2v8, and the current Survivor bots would be the better bots to run in a bots mode or in customs.
Bots in tutorial are not very good. But I remember when I played mobile version there were killer bots and very good killer bots. So maybe once, but I don't really see much value of going against killer bots, for practice?
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@TimberGoingDown said:
Oh, so destroy its synergy with any other perk and reduce its effectiveness so that it goes back into the dumpster bin with CoB and Overcharge.
My problem is that while surivors use quite variety of builds, eventhough you see Windows, Resilience, Lithe, Finesse and Vigil way more often still it's pretty wide perk choices. While killers have varieties of perks they can use to make the game feel more fun and not stale, they still use the same 5 perks. Literally 8 perks total you gonna see 95 % of killer games. And other perks getting huge buffs, making the variety of builds more interesting. And that's why killers should be incentived to run other builds than just Pain, corrupt, dms and one perk of choice. I'll leave some builds I ran recently:
- Save the best for last, rapid brutality, deadlock, thwack
- Rapid, Nowhere to hide, Nothing but misery, forever entwined
- Phantom fear. thwack, no way out, trail of torment
- unforseen, dark devotion, surge, claustrophobia
- blood favor, undying, dominance, thrill
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969602#Comment_3969602
Because instead of automatically hitting one gen with DMS due to Pain Res, I'd be hitting two. One would get interrupted with Pain Res, the other with FttE. Also, Grim Embrace procs DMS. So using GE and DMS together, with your proposed rework, would mean that all gens being worked when GE procs would get hit by DMS. You could block 3 or 4 gens with every hook. If that sounds alright with you, then let's make that change. If not, leave DMS how it is.
Again, wrong. Pain res doesn't proc DMS if survivor let of gen when killer is hooking, but solo q exists making this perk hell. Mathematically getting 5 hooks = 250s of gen regression value = almost three extra generators progress worth stale. At 10 hooks it's 6 generators progress worth stale. Killers that can get fast downs (30 of 40 killers) simply cannot lose with this perk and don't even have to perform too well during the trial. I'm killer main, defending a lot of stuffs. But this particular perk is so fundamentaly broken, that I'm surprised it survived so long untouched, same with Vigil as I stated above.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969603#Comment_3969603
And survivors can still progress the game on another gen. See? Nobody is a victim here.
That is true, but it completely demolish solo q, stale game massively and makes 3 genning very viable, it's similiar problem to old eruption, while swf could call out downs to prevent the long lasting incapacitation, the solo q was completely demolished.. There shouldn't be that powerfull perks like DMS and Vigil. Both those are way too overtuned. DMS = 50s blocked gen = 50 % regression by blocking = 2.5 stack pain res. I'll tell you how most of my solo q games look. 4 people spawn and at best 2 people do gens, 1 is chased and someone is ratting somewhere. Now the survivor goes down quite quickly, get hooked, whole the gen progress is cut and now it's decision whether I have to go for save or not to block the gen. DMS needs to be 50s window upon hooking as it used to be, and still be insanely good perk. Vigil completely ruins killer builds around healing and exposed. If I run starstuck I don't understand why two survivors running Vigil should recover in 8s instead of 30s and why antiheal like GoP or Sloppy should be recovered so fast when they are already time based. Making it so it no longer stacks and is cut down to 30 % and removing exposed from that would me more than fair.
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@thePizzaIsALie said:
Alright first off please be respectful even if you hate it (i just know you will).
So my thinking was how could we implement and represent more niche themes and niche fandoms into dbd so i came up with a chapter that has a strong fantasy/darkfantasy and also anthromorph character theme because since we got furry skins for killers why dont do a chapter?
So first of heres my killer concept:
speculative killer idea1:
name: the curse
terror radius: 32m
moving speed: 4.6m/s
species: anthromorphic rotten demonic dragon corpse thing (inspired by the lich from adventure time and ghostflame dragons from elden ring)perk1(hex:lament of suffering): whenever a survivor completes a healing action in your terror radius you gain a token
1-3: survivors get the oblivious status after finishing a heal up for 40 seconds
3-5:survivors get a permanent 20% slow down on healing
5+:all survivors who get hurt get the broken status for 80 seconds until the hex gets cleansed(alternative possibilty to this would be that all survs get broken until the hex is cleansed)perk2(dragons hoard): whenever a survivor opens a chest or uses theyre item in a 30 meter radius to you you see theyre aura for 5 seconds (40/30/20 seconds cooldown)
perk3(ancient knowledge): when you damage a generator you put a mark on it(only one at a time) and as long as it is marked it regresses with 100% speed and you see the auras of every survivor in a 8 meter radius for as long as it regresses
after that the perk goes on a 60/50/40 second cooldownKiller appearance: almost fully rotten and cursed with red or purple glowing eyes whithered bones and black flesh pieces hanging on his bones
With big bony wingscharacteristic: cursed,rotten,evil?
hovering over the ground not really flying,mori idea1: killer grabs survivor and throws them on the ground then slashes them a few times and lastly eats theyre soul
mori idea2: killer sneaks behind the survivor then throws them on the ground and lets them inhale a fireball and the they make kaboom
mori idea3: killer sneaks up behind a survivor and grabs them and puts a cursemark on them and rips theyre heart out after that skeletons appear who drag that survivor to hell
ability1:purple fireball(he has 4 of them at a time) after using them all he has some cooldown. its a bright purple fireball that explodes on impact (like the unknowns projectile),upon hit it gives the survivor the cursed status in which they get a (kinda like freddys timer lookalike but different)timer on them and if they do not get rid of it they take damage and if theyre already hurt they get deep wound. survs get rid of this effect by being near the killer but not in his direct line of sight. if they get hit a second time with the fireball they take a healthstate.
ability2:(double dash and slash) he can perform 2 distinct dashes also over pallets and windows and can do either a grab or a slash where he either inflicts the curse effect on survivors when he hits one with this ability or he just slashes them which takes a health state.
special gimmic(cursed spirit): special glowing gravestones spawn on the map near gens where he can teleport to and when he does all the totems flicker with the one he teleports to flickering way faster. after a teleport his terror radius is everywhere on the map and he becomes undetectable for 5 seconds and a tiny little bit slowed down for 5 seconds. after the teleport the killer can not teleport to the used totem for 20 seconds
weapon: sceletal claws or withered sacrifice bladeNow to the 2 survivors (my favorites)
suvivor1:
name:(oliver)
species: anthromorphic tabby cat
wears adventure like clothes
gender:male
charakteristic in short:fast, resilient,courageos,crafty,smart
appearance: well
perk1: "dart and dash" (chase perk) every time you rescue a survivor from the killer through blinding with a flashlight you and the saved survivor get 3/4/5% haste for 5 seconds
100/90/80 seconds cooldown
perk2: "avenging claws" (anti tunnel perk) after you get unhooked activates for 20/30/40 seconds
when the killer decides to chase you after you got saved, the first succesful pallet stun doubles the stun duration in which the killer gets stunned and he becomes a debuff for breaking pallets for 20 seconds after this perk deactivates
perk3:"clickbait"When you have worked on a generator for at least 15% on, you can activate clickbait : A loud sound cue immediately appears at your location, A second sound cue appears 3 seconds later in a random direction 10-14 meters away The Killer does not receive any Aura or scratchmarks from you for 6/8/10 seconds
40 second cooldown
And
survivor2:
name: reeve marlow
species: anthromorphic raven
gender:male
charakteristic:evasive,cunning,smart
appearance: black raven
wears adventorous clothing (fantasy styled)
perk1:(exhaustion perk)(tailwind):everytime you heal a survivor of a healthstate you get a token up until 3 and when you have all 3 tokens and you then enter a chase you can use all your tokens to hide your scratchmarks/pools of blood for 10 seconds and you gain 3/4/5% haste for 3/4/5 seconds
perk2:(aura perk)(window of prey):for every 20 seconds you get chased you gain a token up to 3 and everytime you fast vault over a pallet or window you use 1 token and see the killers aura for 6 seconds
perk3:(endgame perk)(last flight):When the exit gates are powered, the following effects activate:
While within 16 meters of a hooked survivor, the killer's aura is revealed to you every 6/5/4 seconds.
Unhooking a survivor within this range while the killer is within 8 meters grants you:
Endurance for 7 seconds.
and the unhooked survivor:
5% haste for 3 seconds
This effect can trigger once per survivor per match.
There should be one more original chapter in september (the japanese folklore) and after that one licensed. In fact it stated one killer and two survivors I can't imagine anything else than incoming RE3 chapter. Might be wrong, can be something like Supernatrual, but RE3 makes most sense to me.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969632#Comment_3969632
The cancel cannot be removed without killing him. Unless you make his power able to down
Can be easily removed and serve as catch up power and remained antiloop
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@Chiky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969202#Comment_3969202
"would make killers 20x stronger." > Only mention of killer is a nerf xD
Ok. I guess you don't understand game mechanics as this would allow you to wait 30s to tunnel people easily, while completely destroying any early gen progress. Seems like huge killer nerf, truly. :D
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@Feather said:
Haywire, perk nerfed to its unusable state because of one killer. Singularity
Situational Awerness, Perk nerfed because of 1 killer, Nurse
Undone, perk intentionaly bad because of 1 killer, Doctor
I think there would be more examples of that, like gen kick meta nerfed cuz of knight or manga nerd.
Why dont we use perk tiers to nerf them on specific killers?
Like singularity would have tier 1 haywire with current effects, other killers that can do similar tactic would get tier 1 or maybe 2 effect, and others would benefit from tier 3.
Devs could make cool perk ideas without having to balance them around certain killers. Weaker killers would also benefit from that, AND we could nerf those killers that are too oppresive.
Maybe changing from "tiers" to "versions" would be better. Like v1 would be signicficantly different from v3 but would have same mechanic.
Ofc we would need a lot of information about what killer needs to have what tier. We could start of with all having tier 3 (like now) and nerf those that we know is not fair on certain killers.
(this thought came to me a minute ago, it probably has flaws i dont see.)I disagree on that one. Killers need to be more in line with each other. Pig and Nurse can't have so different chance of winning when spawning on same map with same build. There are 5 killers that must be towned down and 4 killers that need to be tuned up. Then the perks won't be so huge problem but more of corelation with specific poweres.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969576#Comment_3969576
You will have to hit 5 GREAT skill checks… and that alone can take time. Maybe you'll actually get enough skill checks, but will you land all the greats as well? And then, if you blow up the gen, might as well kiss all the benefit you were trying to get from another toolbox goodbye. But on top of that, the -50% penalty to repair speeds?? Why?? That alone feels like it completely guts the entire purpose of the perk. Unless… I don't know. You really just wanted to use it to refill a sabo toolbox??
Scavenger originally needed 4 great skill checks to refill. They made it so refills are unlimited, but in most game you get max two refills and is only good with one toolbox and two add ons, otherwise it's not worth running. They put the penalty on to the perk so people who are grat at hitting great skill cheks can't rushed too quickly, so essentially you want to spend the time of the penalty not using the toolbox. I've been running scavenger and I feel that streetwise was way better or built to last. Streetwise sadly is getting huge nerf so it gives you extra charges from box, but no longer can be used to help other players. So essentialy two people that ran streetwise can no longer have -40 % depletion, which again is actually a huge buff to killer, because it makes genrushing survivors weaker.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969636#Comment_3969636
Leverage is a very good perk. I don‘t think it needs buffs.
For mangeled I just want the timer removed. The only problem in the past was hemorrhage which deserved the nerf, but not mangled.
Coulrophobia fair, but this perk is really annoying.
Gift of pain should not have mangled and hemorrhage on a timer because it is a scourge hook perk.
Good doesn't mean it doesn't deserve buffs.
Mangled can be untill fully healed, sure.
GoP is good because it applies after unhook and is "choose" perk. Survivors can stay injured to avoid penalty, or heal slower.
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@SoGo said:
Artist, yeah, I know the pain well.
Houndmaster and Pinhead tho? Not sure why they should have problems.
Also, if we disabled Swamp, we would probably not see it for a year or more.
I mean if you consider any map with elevation pain for Artist, then there are quite a few of them.
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@Testoviron said:
Both Swamp maps are unacceptable, they have always been in an unacceptable state. They are abusable by both sides, they make some killers like Pinhead or Artist or Houndmaster borderline unplayable, and on the other hand they have the most absurd 3 gen potential in the game. They are too big, the structures are too strong, the list goes and on and on.
These maps must be reworked. From the ground up.
They are so thoroughly rotten that moving a window around, or rotating a building, just won't bloody cut it.
They must be redesigned, period. There's no other realm as awful as Swamp in this entire video game. No other realm even comes close.
It needs to go. BHVR must swallow its ego and its pride, and realise that not everything they produce is made of solid gold. Swamp is abhorrent. It cannot remain as it is.
I think the playerbase was three times happier when it was killswitched due to a bug some time ago.
I feel that Swamp is one of best balanced maps. I played Houndmaster there without any problems. Both variants are fine, sometimes spawn RNG that favors one side more and other time favors the other side. It's not like when you spawn as survivor on farm or as killer on withered isle.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969618#Comment_3969618
What you would do in chase is Shoot a bouncing drone and try to injure or down them with Scan mode (stopping the bouncing trajectory and locking it in place for a scan), or you can try to hit them directly in Stalker mode (Aka normal bouncing trajectory), which will make it easier to mindgame them with M1, cut them off with Ambush, or try to leave the chase and get the Upgrade off successfully to quickly move to a new target (with ambush) so you can give more survivor stalker drones for a strong SWARM to slow down the game.
That's the quickest summary without getting into the super details of how every ability works.
Since her main chase is dependant on survivors having to "duck" when she does scan mode, she will be able to mind game with this too as well, since if she doesn't activate Scan mode to lock the drone in place, the stalker mode (aka normal bounce trajectory) will hit a survivor whether or not they're crouching
Also a mini summary of all her abilities (without game implementation details):
- Can shoot out a bouncing drone in a straight trajectory (called stalking drone) that will bounce off walls twice and if it hits a survivor will follow them and blind them if they look in that drone's direction. Being hit by this drone applies 1 stack of SWARM. It can be removed with a skill check
- She can upgrade all stalking drones attached to survivors, preventing them from removing it with a quick skill check. It can still be removed if the survivor enters a locker for 30 seconds
- She can hold the ability button to send a SWARM out for each survivor with a stalking drone attached, which will chase their latest past location for each stack of SWARM and shoot the survivor if within LOS and within 8 meters if the killer isn't within 16 meters of that survivor
- When shooting a bouncing drone in stalker mode, she can press the ability button again to lock it in place, entering Scan mode, where it scans and injures/downs any survivor scanned by it if they aren't crouching
- She can use Ambush to create a fixed path and quickly travel over it, without ability to break off of it once she's traveling it. If she bumps into any survivors while flying over this path, she gets fatigued for a prolonged durationIt sounds well. But I still can't fully imagine that as a gameplay. I defienetly would like to see her be more appealing to both sides. But same as BHVR, you offer way too difficult multitool. But in your suggestion it might make her stronger. In BHVR suggestion I don't see her being better than C tier with a long set up which as we know requires some time that you don't really have.
My idea was to make deployed drone start harrassing survivor as soon as they see them, being completely stealthy. When drone sees survivor they follow them and revel them to SM. SM gains undetectable for as long as the survivor is chased by the drone. She would have 4 of them. Her second ability would be to shoot bullet from her mechanical weapon. Once survivor gets harrased by drone enough to fill the lock on meter, lets say 30s, she can shoot them with this bullet to damage them with this power for as long as they have lock on. Lock on would last about 60s. So the gameplay would be that you see survivor being harrased by drone that follows them, you prepare your bullet ability and once they have full lock on you can shoot them. This would give her antiloop as well as more interactive power.
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@AdamZ said:
just buff anti heal perks, and also buff the mangled and hemorrhage status effects
Thats it, what do u think?
Totally agree on some antiheal perks buff
fe. Leverage → 30s - 60s
Gift of pain → increase mangled value to 40 %
Coulrophobia - set the trigger aoe to 40m, so killers have similiar value approach to it.
Sloppy butcher - increases mangled value to 40 %
And mainly!: Vigil decrease value to 30 %, no longer stacks, no longer shortens exposed
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@bnork said:
hello again! its me bnork once again id like to have a discussion about kaneki, after the QNA today it was mentioned that kaneki is indeed on the horizon for an update after more feedback is gathered, which is perfect! and we really appreciate you not rushing this one. and because of this id like to once again post my kaneki update suggestion, after talking to several kaneki players, especially those who are well known on the character, and even discussing these changes with people who adamantly do not like the character, and after the conversation we all came to the conclusion that this version of the character would be better for almost everyone, drastically increasing his skill-floor, rewarding his skill ceiling much more, and increasing counter play across the board, aswell as adding quality of life for both sides! the goal here is really to help everyone enjoy the character more and i know alot of people are very, very passionate about this, so id love to share our ideas with you! lets get into it!
- Completely removed the ability to vault using Kagune Leap
i know this might come as a bit of a shock to some players, but after vetting it with a lot of kaneki players, AND people who adamantly dislike him, the vault is the single biggest thing stopping kaneki from being enjoyed across both sides. the vault offers far to much lethality for how easy it is to use, it can occasionally feel like a constant 50/50 that's significantly easier to do, then to counter. i'd also like to mention that i simply don't think the high skill expression the character offers can ever be fully realized so long as you have the option to forgo risk and simply opt to vault. its a flawed game-play loop for both sides, as ironically when survivors are very confident countering the vault, the strength switches hands quite heavily, so kaneki's power budget is all placed into a vault that severely punishes newer and less confident players, and becomes almost powerless against better players. this mechanic simply cannot be balanced and i think the healthiest version of the character would simply not have this mechanic at all.
- Reduced the maximum Range a Grab-attack can be triggered to 8 meters
once again lowering the ease of use of the other part of kaneki's power, i don't think the Grab-attack injury would be as obnoxiously strong as it is now, if the Range the attack could be triggered was lowered, a hit-scan attack with 14 meters of range is simply overkill. this allows the system to remain intact, keeping enraged, prevents extreme cases where your sniped completely around walls or obstacles because he triggered the attack before you rounded the corner. and increases the skill component exponentially. this would simply require kaneki players to position far more intentionally to get this attack off, without significantly lowering the strength of the ability!
- Reworked the forced cool-down system into a "power disable"
this change might seem a little bit random but allow me to explain, kaneki's token drain system(the system that forces him into a cool-down upon a broken pallet) seems to be rather buggy, and becomes consistent through the recent patches, on release it drained one token consistently, which worked but dis proportionally effected non-enraged mode as enraged mode has a 2.5 second recharge for a single token recharge, so shortly after the drain was made to drain 2 tokens. making enraged mode a 5 second penalty. this worked nearly perfectly, but now non-enraged was an 8 second penalty, completely overkill. so. finally, i was made so that one token is drained when not enraged, and two are drained when you are enraged, perfect! almost. the problem is that it was also made so that when you were actively recharging, the system wouldn't effect you. nullifying its existence entirely. in the current patch we've also made a completely reversion to the first iteration of the system through a bug. history lesson aside, i think implementing a power disable(much like the trickster after using main event) would be the perfect way to make this system work flawlessly, and be a consistent balancing number, so if needs be, it can be adjusted in the future, aswell as giving survivors a consistent number of seconds before they need to worry about your power. the current system is far to inconsistent to counter, as the system varies drastically.
- Reworked the following add-ons - Yamori's mask, Red headed centipede, iridescent Eye-patch
because we removed the vault as a mechanic, centipede and eye-patch would need reworked as they system they hinge upon no longer exists. Yamori's mask however, is a terribly overtuned addon in its current state, kaneki is almost always enraged, so the information is constant, screams are a unique form of information as they cant be countered with iron will, or even off the record, the only counter is calm spirit, which doesnt get used. and even more unhealthy then the constant information, the screaming mechanic also interrupts actions, meaning dead mans switch will always activate, blocking a gen, or totem builds with thrill of the hunt, will almost always force unfun situations where the killer is given free, unreasonable lethality throughout a game because of ONE addon, that is incredibly easy to trigger. my friend beerey came up with this rework, which im personally very fond of!
Yamori's Mask
-Decreases Enraged Mode duration by 50% of its current amount.
-After hooking a survivor, the following effects are granted to The Ghoul for 25 seconds after going outside a 48 meter range from the hooked survivor:
- Increases terror radius to 48 meters.
- Increases maximum Kagune Leap range to 20 meters.
- Increases maximum Kagune Leap movement speed by +4 m/s.
- Decreases recharge time for Kagune Leap tokens by 30%.
- 4 seconds are added back to the timer every time The Ghoul performs a grab-attack, but this bonus will never let the unique timer go above its initial amount.
-These effects automatically end once The Ghoul downs another survivor.
alright, so this concludes the nerfs and reworks section, naturally these changes alone would leave him alot weaker then he deserves to be, so lets compensate him with a handful of well deserved buffs! aiming for rewarding his skill-expression, lowering his reliance on certain add-ons, and making the killer feel alot smoother to play!
- Increase Kagune Leaps range to 16 meters(was 14)
I'm sure no one is surprised to see this, as even people who supported this change early into kaneki's balance direction have grown to regret this nerf. for those that don't know, on release kaneki had this range base-kit, but it was shortly nerfed down to what we have now, at 14. to be blunt 14 meters just feels incredibly sluggish and unresponsive, things that should clearly be within your ability to grapple onto are just slightly to far from you, making chases feel very unresponsive and bad, ironically though, this had NO effect on kaneki's map presence and control, which im positive was the intention. as this change has aged poorly, and as we've given him more then a few nerfs to compensate, i feel its a good time to revert this change, and return the range to 16 meters.
- Decrease Kagune Leaps minimum leap range to 3 meters(was 5)
for those unaware, the Kagune Leap also has a minimum leap range, which is a range you have to be AWAY from something to latch onto it, in practical terms this means you have to back away from certain parts of the environment in order to begin leaping. once again this feels incredibly clunky from the killers perspective, and somewhat confusing from the survivors perspective as well because its not very clear why the ghoul would be backing away from an obstacle it would seem perfectly reasonable to grapple onto though. the number being 5 meters is simply too much. i can acknowledge the reason this system exists though, so decreasing this number would add some fluidity to his kit, and decrease alot of frustration.
- Added the effects of "fresh coffee" and "kaneki's satchel to the basekit"
in his current form, kaneki is very reliant on the extra 14% movement speed to consistently outplay tiles, the base speed is very slow, aswell as the majority of kaneki players running this addon anyway, i see no reason it shouldn't be added to the basekit. as for satchel, the ghouls final leap will never slide, meaning its useful-fullness for mobility is significantly lower then any leap that does, meaning its main use-case is for bodyblocks, i feel the extra speed given from satchel would increase his chase potency and once again relieve some add-on reliance.
- Decrease the additional fatigue from a "Kagune swipe" to 2.25 seconds(was 2.5) and Decrease the movement speed penalty to 1.15 meters(was 0.92 meters)
so, this change might seem a little random, but id actually like to explain this! if you grapple directly onto a survivor, with your first leap, or any leap onto a marked survivor, causes them to scream, and become interrupted, if timed well you can actually deny a survivor a vault prompt, and get a down. the problem however is that grappling onto a survivor this way creates a much, much more steep recovery time then normal. i feel a 2.5 ontop of a 0.92 movement speed penalty is massively overkill. increasing these numbers slightly, while still keeping them higher then an average fatigue time keeps the counter-play rewarded, punishes improper plays, and makes proper plays still feel all the more better.
this does it for my updated change log! i hope i was indepth enough and explained all my points fairly. and clearly. im very passionate about this character and would love to see these changes implemented. i truly think kaneki is a diamond in the rough, and if balanced properly he could be as fun to verse as he is to play. i once again thank you all for taking the time to read through these! please upvote if you can so the devs have a higher chance to see these, and too show support! thanks again!
I think the main point of the Ghoul frustration is mainly the catch up-cancel to instant m1. I don't think the vaults are the problem, I would even buff his base leap speed and range. But the cancel needs some tweaks. I literally M1 someone and catch up to him 2s later cancel straight behind him and m1 him again. Injure and down in 5s, across 24m. The deep wounds can go too. And people who say, but Made for this… MFT makes you run cross map 1.5s faster, it's not counter. And if someone tells me that cancel is skill expression, it's not. It's same like pressing m2 to deploy drone with chess merchant.