Elan
Elan
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973951#Comment_3973951
regardless of whether he's strong or weak (he's B Tier at most), there are still improvement they could add and those are my suggestions. I dont understand the urge to come on to a post about a specific killer just to complain about buffing weak killers, go make a suggestion post for whatever weak killers you want buffed/rework.
Those are not improvements, those are major updates. Specifically:
- Why not
- No way, it got massively buffed and provide enough value per iri add on.
- No, 2 zombies are balanced and can keep completely change outcome of the game, it can laso support unhealthy playstyle and can cause nerf to Nemesis kit which he doesn't need.
- Bad. You can get into tier 3 relatively quickly. Zombies are huge part of his kit and provide him massive value despite you can't control it or spy on how much value you got. Wouldn't even be worth iri. Current 60s exposed upon syringe is way more suiting.
- Again, major updates that will just cause cycles of nerf/buff. Zombies are strong AI supportive tool. Defienetly no reason to give him multitool AI, look at Knight, how ass he is to face and how unbalanceable he is.
- Surely, they can eventually make additional mori like Twins have.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973223#Comment_3973223
5 is still a lot, maybe with highest rarity with addons, but default should be like 2, max 3
or keep it infinite, but survivors needs to do something for it to recharge. Hard to say what it could be…
I don't have problems tracking people even with iri add ons unless they use it in distance where i mostly guessed their path anyway. But if there is majority hating it, surely. I feel they can keep it rechargable but increase recharge time to like 120s, maybe more and keep the difference in the vials in fog spread, speed etc.
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@RodanThrelos said:
You have to be facing the killer for Last Stand to stun them. It working both directions was stated as a bug and listed in the bug fixes of the patch notes.
No more farting at the killer for a stun.
I figured out that there is a window before stun happens. So killer can prevent it and get stunned after downing you, which is crazy for the fact that you have one-time use perk. I guess the funniest part of perk is the goofy vault animation. :D
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@RodanThrelos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958764#Comment_3958764
Sorry, what do you mean auto-lock?
Also, here's what I think Chucky needs:
- Increase speed on SnD a bit more. I think it's still too slow.
- Allow Chucky to Scamper when in power, but put SnD on cooldown for 4-5 seconds. This eliminates the "braindead" Scamper into SnD that people complained about. If Kaneki can have it, why not Chucky?
- Allow a short (1-2s) window for Chucky to adjust the angle of SnD following a Dash Scamper. As it is now, it's useless except for gaining distance, as Survivors can just sidestep it with no risk, then re-vault the pallet.
With these changes, Chucky can go back to being an interesting character that survivors can play around, but still has some lethality if the survivor doesn't mindgame a pallet/window correctly.
Autolock happens at the end of SnD. Kaneki having scamper is not argue to put it back to Chucky, and I don't truly understand why they remove it from Chucky (which was good change) and put it to basekit of already powerfull Ghoul.
Increasing speed of SnD? Maybe a little, why not.
Scamper shouldn't come back. All the play against Chucky was that he followed you, scampered and got free hit on you. It wasn't even strong because he had 18s cooldown. It was just something compared to current Legion playstyle where they follow you in frenzy, vault pallet to break it and cancel. Is it anything fun or interesting? No. Why to put it onto other killers, no point to make more killers miserable to face.
The Chucky was tricky to balance. His 1.0 version was just everyone running iri add on, scampered, broke pallet and got free hit. Something like current legion. Chucky 2.0 got insanely short cooldown and guaranteed hits evenery 8s, so you couldn't really do much. Chucky 3.0 they removed the 180 flicks so there was small chance to avoid his hit, but truly minimal and he got even shorter cooldown, like 10s, with drill add on and rope you had cs of like 8s. While current Chucky fell of grace because he's not so lethal anymore, it was step in good direction and he might get something small even, but boosting him will be a step back. Chucky has more tools in his kit than just SnD and that's mainly permanent 3rd person camera and small body which is already a good advantage in antiloop as the footfalls aren't truly that responsive.
I'd say he might get longer Hidey-Ho duration base and a little bit faster dash.
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@RodanThrelos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971716#Comment_3971716
Ok, you went off the rails. Here. You took the calculation of the time for DMS and compared it to other regression perks and acted like that's a fair comparison.
DMS doesn't stop that survivor from repairing a different generator, so no, it doesn't have the value or "20 Pain Res tokens", this is just an asinine argument.
It's single perk value. There are 3 more slots to fill. None perk should powercreep everything in the game, so does Vigil. Surely you can go do different gen, but now you have progress across multiple gens, while none is truly done and the hooks will slow that even more. Not even saying how obnoxious is dms 3-genning. I'm not saying it has to be nerfed into the ground, but at least should be reverted to activate once someone is hooked rather than being pocket version that you can carry and trigger back to back. Surely, killers like Trapper or Pig will not have so much value of constantly blocked gens. But 60 % of killers can pretty much have one gen blocked all the game.
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@RodanThrelos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970505#Comment_3970505
Or maybe the issue is that healing is so strong that it's fast enough to not require a dedicated healing build to full heal very quickly, removing any reason or incentive to stay injured.
Wrong. The healing bonus is added to the base healing value. If you run self care and fully stacked desperate measures, then it's 80 % added to the 0.35 charge to heal progress per second, so are other perks. I tried DM, BK, streght in shadows and i healed in about 10s in the basement. That was cool, but I had nothing to really help tunneling, gen progression etc. Fully dedicated builds are not bad because you don't need them, but because they don't give you value across multiple mechanics but boost only one.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973163#Comment_3973163
bit of a drama queen
Not really. I just don't understand the urge of "buff strong killer" when there are weak killers that need buffs or reworks. Nemesis doesn't need any buffs, because he's currently in very good spot after his late buffs.
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@Mandy said:
This is purely visual on the perk text, the effect in game hasn't changed, sorry for the confusion.
Thank you for the answer! <3
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@Jarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973214#Comment_3973214
I don't disagree - his power design is to be strong in 1v1 whilst not being strong across the map as a whole, but if they've pushed him towards less skill expression than he previously had and made him even more unenjoyable to go against (though I appreciate that's subjective), they have pushed him in the wrong direction in my opinion.
His zombies are mad annoying. I can't even count from both sides how many times they helped massively. It's less noticable from Nemo pov of course. It's his map presence. As they push survivors of gen, give you hits mid chase etc.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's a description bug only, it is still 20% in game, I checked.
Visionary's description is also wrong, says it has a 20 second cooldown instead of 16
Tested or thought? Might be just partialy wrong version of live servers.
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Abandon = win indeed. Boring form of winning, but it's not loss.
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@Emerald_42 said:
This item has Infinite uses, and at first when reading it at face value. I thought it'd be interesting, but instead it was a nightmare to deal with. It flat out makes me dizzy dealing with these items. Let alone if people spam them. When I see multiple people in a lobby using them, I just leave because of how dizzy it gets me. And why does it have infinite uses? It makes no sense, give it a token system like the keys and maps.
I'm sure, the rechargable item is something they want to test for future possible items. I'd agree that infinite uses is weird for this type of item. They either need to make them way stronger but one or two time use or leave them as they are but put them on like 5 recharges.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973168#Comment_3973168
For example on Unknown map
that map is so much better than this one, especially bigger and more pallets. Uknown map is way bigger.
It's definetly problem of map, when you have free 4-gen with not strong loops nearby on one of smallest maps.
That map is simply terrible for survivors.
I like Springtrap and Unknown maps a lot, doesn't matter which side I play, but this one is just bad.I sadly play the map once to say it's potential for either side. I put on 10 offerings and get map once. It reminds me more of the cinema map but without a lot of the messy stuffs. It's more like map in test. So I haven't truly explored the map as the Lich was too interested in by Steve butt.
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@deadmanjay said:
Hello:
Can you please revisit and possible remove the fog vials due to accessibility reasons. I know you already addressed the sound effects bit the brightness of the fog and quickness of it popping up can create headaches, migraines, vision problems, and possible migraines in people prone to those. By keeping them in, it will create an exclusion of people who have already bought and played the game before their inclusion.
I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed a difference in brightness based on maps as Hawkins was dark grey but the few out door maps I played in, they were very bright and forced me to not bother playing those matches further.
This is copy of answer from different post as I don't want to write it twice.
I must argue that the game can't be balanced about that. There should be accessibility options to reflect that though. The fog vials side effects are something that exist in the game for already a long time in perk versions = iron will, lightweight, lucky break, the ellen ripley silent footsteps perk, self preservation and many more. This is not new mechanic to make killers unable to track you, it's something that is in the game for a while, but is not as popular so the vials won't be soon, because they are truly not helping much and people will shift back to beamers and medkits, trust.
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@JackPrincessHeart said:
I'm partially deaf in both ears, so already I have trouble in chases when I can't hear survivors footsteps. It makes playing killers like Spirit completely off the table, which is fine, i don't really care. But these? I can see the survivors up close, but when they pop a fog vial right after breaking line of sight, I genuinely cannot counter it. I can't see scratch marks, nor can I hear their breathing. It makes playing killer completely miserable, and it also makes me feel really "underconsidered." I mean, they have the visual terror radius feature, so clearly they know deaf people play their game, so why, why did they add this?? For me, it brings everything back to the early release of spirit, and the 50/50 method you had to use in order to potentially avoid getting hit. only now, it's a 50/50 chance you'll actually GET a hit, considering if you're me, you pretty much have to guess what direction their going.
Oh yeah, also, it recharges! So I had a match where all four survivors brought this thing and spammed it EVERY SINGLE TIME I went in a chase. This thing is a real low blow for me personally.
As I feel sorry for your disabilities, I must argue that the game can't be balanced about that. There should be accessibility options to reflect that though. The fog vials side effects are something that exist in the game for already a long time in perk versions = iron will, lightweight, lucky break, the ellen ripley silent footsteps perk, self preservation and many more. This is not new mechanic to make killers unable to track you, it's something that is in the game for a while, but is not as popular so the vials won't be soon, because they are truly not helping much and people will shift back to beamers and medkits, trust.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973212#Comment_3973212
I agree. They are massively overrated. The thing is most people in this community don‘t want the other side to get anything and complain about everything that slightly annoys them.
Well, that's not true. I play both sides, truly more killer… but I have no problems with either side getting something crazy or fun if it shifts the games in a more variety. The only hates from me are about Vigil and DMS that fundamentaly destroy game mechanics and fun.
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@Jarky said:
They are bad, yes, but not for the reason you're implying. He's overall buffed from his pre-PTB version.
They're bad because he's now somehow MORE obnoxious in 1v1 chase. He's gone from slowing survivors down to just self hasting himself almost permanently to just catch up before a survivor can get to somewhere safe, with the occasional purple thrown in which takes less skill than it took before and is somehow more effective.
On top of that, because killers have ways of adding MORE haste to themselves with perks, which is way more accessible than applying hinder to survivors with perks, he can now just haste stack himself to oblivion easily.
Indeed. But Clown's entire power is about closing distance, despite it's boring to play against, despite it's not strong in map pressure (which is better for him now), it's who Clown is. Freddy (previously more) and Skull Merchant are just worse Clows with different utility.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973121#Comment_3973121
It‘s the dbd forum. That‘s normal. Every patch something releases for survivors freaks out.
It's not the problem. Everyone dislikes something, but this is massive hate on something that is truly not even that good. And the game needs some new elements to feel better. I truly don't get the point where everything that can become meta or fun and push forever stale away is so hated, and as I said I don't even think that fog vials will be used even if they stay as they are.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973121#Comment_3973121
The iri addon originally had an opacity of 53%, and now it has an opacity of 50%. That really doesn’t count as “nerfed quite heavily”
True, opacity was smaller nerf. But it reduces duration and size.
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@Langweilig said:
Yellow bottles are busted now. He definitely got buffed not nerfed.
Agree that he got buffed. His pink bottles went from 12 to 14 % hindered, but the lasting nerf was not so huge. I can see more people using both bottles in chase.
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@Samura1Jack said:
There were so many feedbacks for this perk to be reworked, but it never got changed at all. I wonder what made the devs think just tweeking the numbers was a good idea. Dissapointed. Just dissapointed.
Yeah, weird. they might give it some tunes in hotfix i suppose.
Insidious:
At the start of the trial you are undetectable for 30s. Every time you get undetectable from any source, it lasts 3s longer.
If you stay still for 1s, you are granted undetectable for 5s
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973098#Comment_3973098
Yeah, but there is not really insane 3-gen there anymore on Haddonfield (sure middle gens are annoying).
This map has two options for it and one of them is basically 4-gen. There is also not that much to work with around it imo.
Sure, it's debatable which is worse, but both are bad.So are other maps. For example on Unknown map, if your teammates do cinema and statue gens, you lose. It's more about spreading gens further from each other. They migh even give some more base damage limits to killer. But solution is simply to spread gens, not problem of map itself, I'm more bothered by the colouring.
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@drag27 said:
- Whipping Generators: Tier 2/3 Tentacle Whip should damage Generators as if they were kicked
- Shattered S.T.A.R.S Badge (add-on change): 150% increase movement speed for zombies are always active
- Survivor Zombification (new added mechanic): If a survivor dies by any means while contaminated they will respawn as an additional Zombie they can control , if they choose to leave they will not receive DC Penalty and will be replace with a zombie Bot. (survivors controlling zombies can earn additional BPs for Zombie events: Attacking survivors, bodyblocking Nemesis/other survivors or feeding Nemesis mutation), vaccine chests respawn.
- Iridecent Umbrella Badge (add-on rework): Nemesis starts the trial at Tier 3 Mutation but zombies no longer spawn (excluding Zombified Survivors)
- Cerberus and Licker add-ons: add-ons that turn zombies into these enemy types. Maybe the licker has increased detection range or can detect based on sound (running, grunts of pain, vaulting) while having long range attack but moves slowly on the ground/walls/ceiling). Cerberus could attack like Houndmaster's Dog, holding them in place and despawning after survivor knocks them off.
- Zombie Mori: If a zombie is nearby a survivor in the dying state Nemesis can hit a button prompt for the zombie to mori the survivor without nemesis having to be near (survivor controlled zombies can also mori survivors by walking up to downed survivor and hitting the "kill" prompt).
Just changes I'd like to see
Dude stop. :D Nemesis is already top tier chaser. He defienetly doesn't need any buffs. Stop the maddness. Buff weak killers, leave strong killers alone.
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@TheUnitCircle said:
Making the purple bottles this bad has ruined my favorite killer to play and the changes to the yellow bottles do not outweigh the heavy nerfs.
I understand being made 'slow' in any game isnt fun, but how to you reconcile the fact that your game's mascot killer's (the trapper) power ends chases instantly rather than slowing you down then? Because it's his power! So leave clown's power in-tact and revert these changes, it's game ruining and I want to uninstall! I probably don't speak for everyone but certainly anyone who plays clown, a notoriously already weak killer, didn't need nerfs when you leave Tokyo Ghoul alone!haven't they reverted it to 14 % hindred and 2s? only change was that it doesn't linger?
I saw people saying that Clown is actually pretty decent. Have to try him myself soon.
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@CammyChameleon said:
Restaurant Menu: This add on is by far the most used and I believe should be made partially base kit
- Reduces the minimum Retrieval time by -20 %. → Reduces by 10% With 10% Basekit
Office Phone: Keeps All Other Effects However Now Also Gives Killer Instinct on the Survivors in the 24m range working similar to Victor. This would be fine as the axe is generally only on a survivor to 8-10 seconds and can be removed twice as fast as the add ons downside already.
Party Hat: No longer decreases area of effect duration
Ripped Curtain: Applies for 70s was 60s
Bonnies Guitar: I believe this add on was over-nerfed considering Security Badge got nerfed alongside it which also directly nerfed it more. I think 75% Reduction in stealth is more reasonable than 100%
Chica's Bib: Probably the worst of all his add ons given it's a tiny range requiring the survivor to step in it and also having to miss your power, just for 5s of exhaust. Considering Venca's exhaustion add on is 30s and it is a GIANT invisible ball, Chica's Bib could at LEAST be 15s, maybe 20-30s.
Could also have a side effect of increasing the radius by 50%
Freddy's Hat: This add on is simply really bad and removes most range and verticality of his power, what would make it more useful is actually the opposite effect, decreasing the weight of the axe by 50%. This would add slightly more range for farther range shots and be used purely for fun trickshots!
Access Panel: Retains all previous effects however when the axe is thrown through a door it splits and launches an axe out of every door on the map. This add on is fun but way to incredibly niche to get a hit out of it for a purple add on considering it needs to be a connecting door. At least make it so it can be thrown and goes through to the door that the survivor is watching you from on the camera of the door you throw your axe through.
Faz-Coin: Realistically you can't get 24 meters away from the terror radius the axe creates before the stealth duration runs out. It should be of the same strength as twins iri stealth add on being at 20s, especially considering they can activate it whenever they want by swapping.
Iridescent Remnant: This add- on sounds good in theory but is just simply not good at all. The only possible way I can see value out of it is if you either get haste out of you doors, or instead also block windows considering it is a short duration of blockage.Restaurant menu - disagree. Springtrap identity is about axe into grab, not about spam axes. At this point, you can play Huntress. Massive identity loss.
Office phone - oblivious and broken within 24m is powerfull effect for only uncommon add on, so no. If you want killer instinct for free when someone runs with axe in back by someone, then make it separate add on, because it's already damn powerfull info.
Party Hat - yeah, why not.
Bonnies Guitar - the add on shouldn't be rare at first. other killers have iridescent add ons for this effect and downside of no undetectable is pretty fair for being lowe rarity.
Ripped Curtain - surely, why not.
Chica's Bib - nothing with exhaustion is bad, might be higher 8s instead of 5s. Wouldn't compare to Vecna, because those are pretty different killers. Vecna has completely different toolkit.
Freddy's Hat - agree, I'd even say it might be 100 % less weight but 10s cooldown instead of 7s so you can basically play more range but not feeling like Huntress.
Access panel - I was thinking that it can give you instinct around every door if you throw it through door to disable it. Might be way more usefull.
faz Coin - yeah, not good iri add on. I'd say that you can get undetectable every time someone has axe eb. for about 15s
iridescent remnant - damn, big no. It's one of most busted add ons in the game. Undestroyable blood favor, how you even consider this add on would need buffs. If not nerfs than it shouldn't be touched.
- Reduces the minimum Retrieval time by -20 %. → Reduces by 10% With 10% Basekit
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
Oh yeah let's nerf Fog Vials, nerf Medkits, nerf Toolboxes, nerf flashlights.
Have you ever considered that maybe the problem could be you?Me with my friends who are very experiences in the game and play almost since start were laughing how bad the vial are. You can see through the fog easily and their strongest elements been nerfed. I feel it's more about killer main hate everything that make game changable and fresh.
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@Orthane said:
Man these things are just genuinely not fun. Why do they have a CD instead of single use? Why does it block sound? It's miserable to go against, please get rid of these things.
To be honest. I don't truly understand the hates towards fog vials, because they are pretty meh. And with iridescent add on being nerfed quite heavily, they are even worse. People are complaining about medkits and stale gameplay and when anything new comes they keep complaining too. I was facing them and trying them and it didn't do anything, killers been still able to track me. The only use I saw was to pop it when someone gets hooked to prevent bbq. If you don't want people to run just medkits, there must be incentive to run something else and as maps been nerfed heavily too to the point where it's windows on limits, removing any killer tracking, totems tracking, gen tracking etc. Keys, again baby version of perk that you'd always run over item to get way more consistent value. Medkits will be still best items because there is just nothing else. People will run vials for a moment and then will move away from them.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Yeah, I don't really want to go there as survivor… Those 3-gens are insane.
This map is worse than Haddonfield imo.Defienetly not, the map has resources you can work with. Haddonfield can spawn 0 pallets in the middle, which means that you will have about 8 pallets total on maps.
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@MissiCiv said:
Thalita's 3nd deep rift
Mikaela's 3nd deep rift
Felix's 3rd deep rift
Knights 3rd deep rift
tired of seeing the same characters get their second or third Deep Rift skins, while others have gotten NOTHING since the system was introduced.
I'd like to see some Houndmaster skins, Knight is getting multiple related rifts, while new killers get nothing. HM is not even licensed so I'm confused even more.
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@Chinpokoman said:
Someone from behavior needs to explain how the Clown and Franklin's changes amongst others made it into live despite literal mountains of negative feedback. Does behavior even care what players actually think???? What is the justification for these changes despite a literal 1000 page explanation of why the changes are bad? Absolutely ridiculous.
I disagree. Clown got a lot of changes from PTB, mainly to his hindred bottles, antidote and add ons. So in the end instead of nerf it's actually a decent buff. The only add on here is the 16m→6m wallhack add on, which is good change imo.
Franklin's not changed at all is surprising to me though. They even stated they are aware of the feedback. Might be step between some future changes, why they are removing the get rid of items playstyle, who knows.
Knight got reverted
Pyramid got tweaked
Built to last got tweaked
Vials got tweaked
iri add on got tweaked
So 7/8 changes to feeback is defienetly not something I'd call ignoring feedback.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971817#Comment_3971817
No offense but that's the perception of basically every single high level player. Sadako has always been a bottom 5 killer.
I disagree. She's below average for sure, but defienetly not top 5 worst, she used to be but that's damn long time.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972487#Comment_3972487
while having some insanely busted teleport related add ons
He has 1 busted addon on it.
The main strenght is how often he can cross 126m in 3s
He can't do it from anywhere, he needs to go to the door and is limited to teleport on different door. That takes more than 3 seconds… Survivors know about it and can also use his door to travel.
Not really that insane compare to actually good mobility killers like Billy, Kaneki and Blight.No mobility killers spend 1min
So he has insane mobility when compared to killers with no mobility…
He has 3 of them. One gives him permanent spy on game progress, second gives him undestroyable blood favor and third gives him even more undetectable.
Doors are almost touching gens, so he has it exactly on needed spots. While teleport doesn't provide free hits, you don't get much distance if you don't have sprint burst. Not even saying that to get value of glitching numbers you need doors to perfectly face you.He has best teleport from all killers. No cooldown, no switch off, not relying on maps.
I said that the fact that he can cross map in no time already makes him average, his antiloop, undetectable, add ons and etc. make him B tier at worst, mostly low A.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972140#Comment_3972140
His map mobility is not that insane, simply because survivors can tell you are teleporting and often can even see where, then simply prerun…
I would say it's same, or slightly worse than Dredge mobility. Far worse than Kaneki, Blight, Billy…You are worng, I'm sorry. The main strenght is how often he can cross 126m in 3s. No mobility killers spend 1min going there and he has no cooldown on teleport, while having some insanely busted teleport related add ons.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972140#Comment_3972140
First off there are more weak killers than that (Ghostface, knight and Trickster for example).
Insane map mobility? The very same Insane map mobility that can be used against you? The same map mobility that has two very crippling weaknesses with the static and ambiance cancel. Awesome anti-loop? You miss the small hitbox axe and you have no power for 7 seconds were the surv now knows that you are just M1 for the duration until pick up.
All of you mentioned are def not weaker than that who I mentioned.
Yes, using doors have high risk as he can abandon chase any time and unless you play swf it's not worth using his doors at all. Very rarely, however he can easily go cross map back and forth without any counterplay or limitation. The axe has decent hitbox, I never truly find it harder to land than on Huntress. Not even saying that m2 into grab is insane. When I play ST I have good time, he's not S tier, but he's nowhere near being anything close to being weak.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
Springtrap at the moment is weak if anything, if your getting hit by the axe and cannot make it to anywhere in time you are most likely in a dead zone and therefore out positioned.
At the moment Springtrap has some serious weaknesses that can really harm him such a door logic, ambiance cuts and if he misses he has to wait a bit before he can throw again and untill then he is just an M1 no other mid or long range killer has to deal with this.
That and due to all the warnings given he is also really weak to exhaustion perks/Pre-running.
Springtrap is defienetly not weak. He's above average. He has great zoning, insane map mobility, awesome antiloop and one of most busted add ons. The term "weak" killer suits about 5 current killers in roaster (Pig, Myers, Trapper, Skull Merchant and Doctor).
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972005#Comment_3972005
I disagree heavily, if you get hit with the axe, it's almost impossible to escape chase with him. The speed boost survivors get for being hit is basically pointless as a result of it.
But it's core mechanic of him as he can't truly snowball like huntress. Otherwise the grabs would be straight impossible. I have no problem with ST apart from him having braindead map mobility with no downside but ok. Much rather ST than Ghoul.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
The rework they are doing is good news at least, I'd rather they focus on the games health right now like they are honestly. This year has been full of nice changes even if some have had some hiccups. Looking forward to more of Phase 2 and the Rework in 2026.
The problem is that they have to dedicate resources to that rework. People don't like the shift from her identity at all, which I kind of understand, because it will be another hybrid with multipower. I honestly think that her 1.0 version with 3 gen limitations that been done would be the best option now, during chess merchant era you could use drone in tile to get undetectable, see survivors on radar and make them exposed. Her add ons were chase related - faster break, vault, pallet destroy… but people sit with her on gens. Version 2.0 was as boring as 3genning Merchant. I still feel that her drones should scout maps on their own and have some lethality. The current Merchan't drones are mostly just short undetectable on demand.
I'm just scared, that it will end like Twins where people won't like it, they will scrap it and she won't be touched for another year. Like I don't complain, Twins been dead for 5 years with one failed attempt to do something about it. She's getting 3rd rework.
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@Yoshirama said:
You barely make distance and he recovers too fast
I feel like ST is on sweet spot. I don't see reasons to boost him, neither to nerf him. He feels just right. Great zoning, strong antiloop, insane map mobility.
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@TheGoon224 said:
I’ve always found this genuinely confusing because there have been no attempts to balance her after her first rework’s PTB? people really just cried loud enough and behavior was just like (fine, we’ll knee cap her.) hell, if they made any attempts to balance her at all after the we probably wouldn’t even be getting this rework. The main culprit was obviously the stacking haste but also the fact that there was no real signal as to when you were safe from a drone beam. fix those two problems and skull merchant would’ve been easier to deal with deal with, but that isn’t what they did they reworked her, did nothing about her for a year, and then proceeded to send her into the depths so that no one would play her. And you know it’s speaking of the rework why a ranged power? Skull merchant’s whole point is to track you down so that she can kill you up close and personal, unless her methods changed I have no clue where the idea for this rework came from. And keep in mind skull merchant can take control of these drones now, you thought og chess merchant was bad well just wait until the rework because this time she doesn’t even need to be there to interrupt you she can just sit on the couch with a bag of Doritos and make the drone to do it for her. And keep in mind there’s like a good chance that no one is going to like this rework OG merchant players aren’t going to like it because their favorite killer was shot in the foot, and got replaced by something else entirely. And people that already didn’t like merchant are still not gonna like merchant. They’re just trying to appeal to some imaginary playerbase they think will just spawn in all because skully got new power and a murdered identity.
Problematic in term of boring to go against. She was never strong killer.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971730#Comment_3971730
No, she's weak. Like I said, you can turn off half of her TVs without any punishment, rendering her mobility and condemn useless. Her chase is weak, the invisibility can help in some loops, but still, overall she is a very weak killer.
Ok, it's your perception.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971748#Comment_3971748
This is not just high MMR its just at a level of competent or mid MMR and even then why are we balancing the game around people who don't know what they are doing?
Would you not think that having a game balanced around bad players would just lead to one side quitting once they get better because they know there is nothing more for them?
"There are 40 killers and 500 perks and knowledge that requires some dedication" Yes that is called a learning curve people will fail against something they have never seen before but after 3 times will understand and try to play around it and that is not even talking about the people who actively seek information via wiki ,streamers or the holy DBD bible of Otzdarva.
I think that game is balance about poor play on both sides. And if you want to balance game around mid to high mmr then game should have rank mode or mmr system needs to be explained.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971716#Comment_3971716
DMS is countered by touching a gen with 0% a crippling weakness and often requires you to pair it with something that can force people off gens like Pain resonance. Or you could go do another gen.
Ruin sucks, its random on how long it lasts for and can sometimes be found immediately so you have no perk for the rest of the game and even when it does work its only 100% that is only 1/4 speed(-0.25cps) of survs repair speed. That means to undo 20 seconds of repair it would take 80 seconds for ruin to undo it.
Corrupt is mainly used on M1 killers so they can find someone without free progress on gens if anything this perk should be base kit as surv getting progress on gens because of bad spawn logic is unfair and gives them a massive boost when they are already at their strongest.
Pain Resonance can only be used 4 times once for each surv and removes about 20c so 20 seconds lost for a chase that could of been way longer and considering the meta its not hard to last more than 40 sec against the killer with the WOO and Lithe combo used everywhere which BTW requires no effort to use while all gen regression requires the killer to make a good play or it a limited amount like corrupt and ruin.
Deadlock is only 25 seconds now and is only for the most completed gen all other are still available. Just taking someone to a hook takes about 10-15 sec (RNG dependant) so its not much.
Grimm. 10 seconds only really? That is how long it takes to hook someone and the 40 seconds for getting a fresh hook on everyone (which wont happen often if you want to win) can be countered by hiding and if you say "but what if someone get hooked" you can leave them in it for most of the duration and get them off when its about to go away.
Surge needed a buff because its weak. Most people who see you use it will run to an area already completed or an area with no gens to avoid it and even then its 8c just a little over a dry kick.
The argument that regression was nurfed is not ridiculous at all as if you pay attention to the meta over the course of the games life time gen regression constantly gets nurfed. Down below is the meta perks used on both sides, its a picture I took from JCglitchmaster giving you a simple and indisputable proof gen regression get nerfed constantly (you can see the specifics on the wiki this is just a visual representation) with the only buffs given to DS, vigil and DMS the rest unchanged since (And I just want to point out the DMS change was meant to be a nurf)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CX5PYUD8LN1Y/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8DKEEVWJGVL3/image.png
Oh and "DMS on the other hand is just as unhealthy for the game as Vigil, to imagine what value DMS offers for 8 hooks"
First off 8 hooks in a game with both sides being competent is never going to happen and if the killer 8 hooks anyway than the killer is usually going out of their way to do so and that team was going to lose anyway.
Second DMS can be hard counted by tapping a 0% gen while vigil can stack, cannot be turned off and requires no activation as its a permanent buff and counters all debuffs in the game making a lot of builds and play styles on killer useless on top of allowing far more uptime for exhaustion perks which most of them bar 3 require no effort to use and are effectively free value but yh the killer has to actually win to get DMS while vigil is given for FREE with no down sides the two are not comparable.
Also if DMS alone is causing you to lose you may have bigger problems fix first as well as you should not be lasting only 30s (especially with the current meta) in chase if that is happening the killer is either reading you like a book or you are bad at the game.
I will say it again. The game should not be balanced around high mmr, if there is not a rank mode. There are 40 killers and over 500 perks and knowledge that requires quite some dedication.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971618#Comment_3971618
I already mentioned the problem with the stacking haste, with the fact that it was a remnant from her old version and shouldn’t have made it into the rework to begin with
I don't think her scan drones were anything interesting either. I mentioned her having multiple typles of drones giving her some values.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971643#Comment_3971643
You just need to turn off her TVs. You can turn off up to 3 TVs without any punishment. She's very weak.
You can turn of TV, but even doing so she can stack up condemned pretty fast. And she is not weak, that's just irrelevant. She has insane map mobility nad tricky but viable antiloop, better than Pig and Wraith. It just requires some timing = not trash. Cheers.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
Oh hell no.
With gen speeds being what they are right now no.
Most killer gen regression/holding has been nurfed to the point of being useless. The only regression perks left to use are PR, Pop, DMS and Surge(if your M1).
The perk is not OP as it has quite crippling counter play which is why it usually gets paired with PR to get value.
Not a valid argument. The perk itself is problematic for multiple reasons and value of it is just beyond old eruption/call of brine meta. Saying that slowdown was nerfed is irrelevant again, because gen time was increased. There was limitation for killers to run other perks than just same 6 perks all over again and it haven't really helped. There are some pretty busted killer perks that people still don't use because they feel like 4 slowdowns are requirement and then sre surprised that if they don't down anyone they have minimum value. DMS on the other hand is just as unhealthy for the game as Vigil, to imagine what value DMS offers for 8 hooks:
→ 20 tokens of pain resonance worth
→ 13 procs of deadlock worth
→ 5 additional gens worth needed
And that is a single perk. I remember when it got changed so it doesn't work only on obssesion and I immidiately knew that this perk will be fundamentaly broken. And on top of that they buffed it even more, so it's a pocket perk. Just to understand the slowdowns changes:
- Ruin value decreased from 200 to 100 % but now provides immunity against 8 kick limits for as long as standing, no longer disabled once someone dies.
- Corrupt - deactivates once someone is downed, by got spawn logic so now it truly blocks gens that will help you as spawn locations for killers are way more restricted (fe. when you played on azarov's you spawn in middle and got one gen blocked on one side, second side had too. Now you get one side completely shut down, and that's about pretty much every map and corrupt spread.
- Pain res - got nerfed to 20 %, but in solos, if you down someone within 30s the game is pretty much over, half team will do nothing and the progress is reset to zero.
- Deadlock - very minimal nerf of 5s
- Grim - absolute buff, synergy with other perks (did nothing before if you didn't find 4th survivor in time or haven't got time to hook them.
- Surge - got area increased, scream notification added (so buff)
So argument that slowdown was nerfed and is useless is beyond ridiculous. It does nothing for people who are bad in chase or weak killers (Trapper, Hag, Pig, Ghostface, Myers, Skull Merchant…) that will start the process of stalling game way later. Not even saying that best slowdown is hooking, downing and chasing people because 75 % people are not progressing games.
So current meta:
pain res - creates 0.8 generator worth needed, deadlock creates 1.2 generator worth needed, dms creates up to 7 generators worth needed, ruin can't be calculated liek this, Grim = 1 extra gen worth, Surge again can't be calculated easily as it's potential is 0.6 extra generator per fully stacked regression event per single gen, so max 4.2 aditional gens, eruption works 4x per gen + 4x base 5 % regression = 0.6 gen per fully stacked event on single gen up to 4.6 extra gens progress worth.
So if you run pain res, dms, grim and deadlock… survivors have to repair total worth of 7-10 extra generators. Doesn't sound like useless gutted slowdown to me. I'm sorry, And again I'm killer main and refuse to touch DMS at all. If DMS is available to those 5 weak killers, I'll be ok with that.. But fact that every top tier killer can bring it to absolutely dominate is just unfair, as unfair as Vigil negating my builds. At the moment I mostly run Rapid, Surge, Save and some info perk.
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@DenVosReinaert said:
I want to preface this with saying that this post is entirely considering The Plague's power as is, as well as survivor's abilities WITHOUT any specified tactics and use of perks. Every killer has perks and tactics that work well (or maybe not) on or against it. This is a post that purely looks at the objective effects of The Plague's power on playstyles (mainly that of survivors).
Plague's power is a relic of the past. It no longer offers players the adaptability that any other killer's power and existing perk variety offer. At present, Plague's power invalidates 2 entire playstyles for survivors: Healing/altruism (not all but at least half of possible altruistic actions), and hiding. Additionally, her power is almost always active and can never be countered. The only interaction survivors have to do anything about her power is to cleanse themselves, which still leaves anything that is infected, still infected. Additionally it makes the Plague more powerful by making her puke damaging WHILE infected things stay infected.
A player is not able to try to heal and support their teammates that way because everyone is always infected and therefore broken. Players are unable hide because they are frequently, consistently and loudly puking, regardless of any perks they may have brought, alerting the Plague to their position at all times.
Every other killer power in the game allows players to play how they want. Sure one playstyle is more effective than the other depending on the killer, but the player is still able to employ those playstyles should they wish to do so. That is not the case for Plague. When playing against a Plague the player is forced to either play permanently injured and loudly revealing themselves through grunts of pain and puking (if infected), Or taking forever to slowly and painfully play through the game avoiding any infection, which also puts them at risk of accruing AFK Crows due to the newly implemented AFK system adjustments (which also need adjusting because you can still gain AFK Crows despite playing the game and doing objectives, but that is a subject for a different post).
To compare the Plague's infection to that of Nemesis for example:- Nemesis:
- Is only ever able to apply his infection through a single instant interaction, be that through a hit from his tentacle or hit from his zombies
- His infection is a medium for which to increase the range of his attack. His infection does not directly affect a survivor's playstyle.
- The infection does not spread when interacting with something/someone. It is only ever relevant to the survivor it has been applied to.
- Nemesis's infection makes survivors occasionally puke, revealing their location to the killer if they happen to hear it.
- Removing the infection stops any and all risk attached to it until infected again.
- Nemesis's tentacle (primary application factor for his infection) attacks in a straight line and shortly persists only for the duration of the attack.
- Plague:
- Is able to apply infection to: Survivors, Pallets, Windows, Lockers, Generators, Chests and Totems. Additionally, her infection can be carried over from survivor to everything else in a 1:many relationship. Survivors also rapidly increase their infection by running around.
- Plague's infection makes survivors frequently and consistently cough and puke when infected, regardless of the infection's level (fully infected and broken, or only barely touched), practically permanently revealing themselves to the killer whenever they are nearby.
- Plague's infection makes survivors permanently broken (until cleansed) when fully infected. Not only that, but survivors their infection is carried over when interacting with another infected survivor. Invalidating any potential healing that the survivor may have wanted to do regardless of their performance, and also highly discouraging altruistic behaviour such as unhooking a survivor if the hooked survivor is infected but they are not.
- Survivors curing themselves from plague's infection only do so temporarily, until they are forced to touch something else infected (which they have to, for the sake of progression of the match, and potentially when being chased), are infected by the Plague themsevles, or are touched by another infected survivor.
- Curing themselves from Plague's infection also provides more danger to survivors, which in itself is not a bad thing for a killer power, however it can be active at the same time as her existing passive infection allowing her to have survivors essentially permanently exposed (potentially even worse as they also reveal their locations to the killer with coughing/puking), as well as being able to hit them at great range with a (longer than Nemesis's duration) persisting ranged attack whose trajectory can be changed during the attack.
On the killer side of things there is something that should also change. Almost all other killers have interactions that allow the survivors to interact with the killer's power, and for the killer to regain the effectiveness of their power. Plague's power can be held hostage by survivors in a sense. If survivors do not cleanse at all, then you have one use of your power with the damaging puke and that's it. Yes everyone would be broken then and can be taken down with a single hit, however you will be stuck pressing M1 all game, and any survivor team that has the coordination to actively not cleanse has the altruistic capacity to make sure you will never get a survivor on the hook even if you down someone. (this latter part is admittedly more of a personal gripe with the situation then objective feedback).
Alright, with all that said and done. Suggestions!- Incense based power
- Fitting with her bio, Large Censers are placed around the map (in place of her fountains). Survivors can retrieve a purifying censer from there. The purifying censer is a secondary item with a charge bar (much like that of a flashlight). The purifying censer can be used to cleanse themselves, other survivors, or any infected objectives from their infection. The grabbing of a purifying censer is a timed interaction. Any survivor that has a censer on them, will drop it (and it will be destroyed like Singularity's EMP under the guise of 'spilling it's contents') if injured/downed by any means
- Plague still produces her vomit. The vomit, when used on a survivor, partially infects them. The infection has to be manually built up by the killer vomitting on them, or while survivors are interacting with an infected objective (this includes other infected survivors, it is a plague after all). Plague's vomit can still infect objectives (generators, chests and totems) for a duration.
- Partially infected survivors will cough intermittently as a reminder to any players that they are infected. The higher the infection rate, the higher the frequency. (still not nearly as frequent coughing/puking as there is now, but it can be little more frequent than with Nemesis)
- When a survivor reaches full infection, a timer starts (presented on their portrait in the bottom left). When that timer reaches full, the infected survivor becomes injured and the timer resets, when the timer completes when a survivor is already injured, then they are downed. However, even if an injured survivor is healed, so long as they are fully infected, the timer will persist. Additionally, fully infected survivors also transmit a greater amount of infection to any survivor interacting with them.
- Survivors who are partially infected can be cleansed faster than survivors who are fully infected (cleanse rates would obviously have to be tested but I'm willing to propose double the time for fully infected survivors.).
- The reasoning behind this is that it is still fairly easy for survivors to become infected and spread the infection between them. Whereas survivors who have been fully infected are punished for having procrastinated on removing a literal plague from their bodies.
- The reasoning behind this is that it is still fairly easy for survivors to become infected and spread the infection between them. Whereas survivors who have been fully infected are punished for having procrastinated on removing a literal plague from their bodies.
- Survivors who are fully infected leave a puke pool behind when they puke (timings are the same as a blood pool, however since this is due to the infection it can also occur while healthy).
- Plague can vomit on the large censers that are placed around the map to disable them temporarily (the purifyin insence in the censer will dissipate the plagued vomit over time), there is a cooldown between these interactions for The Plague.
I feel like these adjustments would also lend well to some of her own perks. Survivors can go down on their own if they dont pay attention to their infection status, allowing for the trigger of Infectious Fright to happen a little more regularly. Dark Devotion would trigger with about the same consistency as it already did due to the infection still making the Obsession Injured.
- Addons (I'm not going over each and every one, but more some general ideas)
- Since every killer has them pretty much; Whenever a survivor is injured due to their infection, they gain Mangled and Hemmorage for 30s.
- 30 rather than something like 60 or 80 because it can happen more than once if the survivor is healed while they are infected.
- Objectives are infected for an additional 5/10 seconds
- When a generator is completed, if it was infected, it spreads that infection to the 3 closest generators (Visceral)
- Survivors who are fully infected spread a little bit of their infection to survivors within 5 meters of them everytime they puke (Visceral)
- All Large Censers start infected for 60s
- Increased duration on vomit
- Increased range on vomit
- Persisting Plague vomit on the ground for 2 or so seconds (Visceral)
- Since every killer has them pretty much; Whenever a survivor is injured due to their infection, they gain Mangled and Hemmorage for 30s.
Now, with all this in mind, I do appreciate the amount of work that has gone into making Plague the way that she is. It took a lot of work to get her here, I know that, and I thank the devs for their effort.
It is time for her to change.
Hmm, it's mixed. I defienetly think that there are not much to do against Plague. But, at the same point she has really simple power. People understand that being broken means:
→ chases are way shorter
→ you cannot bodyblock
→ it's way easier to tunnel someone out as they don't really want to cleanse
→ you cannot engage chase out of safe area
But at the same time, playing against her doesn't really change and is kinda stale. As people won't cleanse to boost her, but she always has at least one fountain ready. Plague is not very fun to play against as she's identity is forever gens with thana and other slowdowns which are 90 % of games against her. I don't really enjoy playing her either as she doesn't really offer much. You either have people one shot entire game or they cleanse and now has to face corrupt puke. Not even saying that she has some of most busted iri add ons. But I don't really think she should get changes as she's somewhat ok no and a valid pick if you want to negate entire game mechanic, which is healing.
- Nemesis:
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@pathunknown2 said:
So, I have been watching for years as first the MMR was introduced and SBMM which killed the crossplay off community. In my opinion this was poorly implemented. Before people were playing games within games. Basement bubba, hide and seek wraith, 8 hook, and other games. There were problems, but they were handled by the community. My complaint isn't that MMR became a thing, it is how MMR is calculated. It is like the most basic understanding of winning was taken as the entirety of the MMR, which killed a lot of the creativity in the game that can't be brought back by perks. Now as killers and survivors try to figure out how to push the bounds of the rules to win, it is like the devs want to just double down and force a singular play style. Development is towards a SBMM, but there is less and less skill actually required in the game. I used to have to watch my hooks, as I could make myself lose by hooking in the wrong places. I like the anti camping stuff, and the abandon stuff, those were great additions. I really think that trying to force players to play matches is just an all around bad idea, and DC penalties should just be removed. Especially now that there are bots. I also think the MMR needs a rework as death and escape were never the best primary indicators of a "Win". Most importantly speech to text needs to be implimented for console players so a community can start being built again. I'm glad that the game is still fresh and growing. I just wish some of these things that should have been on the list from the beginning were worked on some time ago. There will always be complaints about how the game should be "easier" because of one thing or another, but if the game takes no skill, then what is the point in an SBMM system at all?
It's caused by a lot of fun elements been killed for healthier game. To the point where you really have to just sit on gens, because there is just nothing else to do if you are not chased.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971636#Comment_3971636
Kinda funny to say zero skill expression and then bring Artist in comparison…
Her chase was weak version of Clown, so I still don't get how could survivors struggle so much with it.I don't think Artist apart from sniper is very skill full either. And sniper sadly don't work against good survivors because any survivor who has brain will hop in a locker or keep changing direction.
She was weaker Clown, so is Freddy. Struggle isn't correct word. As I said the games against her were just straight up boring and since her rework that position belongs to Knight. There was just nothing fun or engaging about going against her. She just trapped loop for a free hit that take long or short time. Kaneki is good example of pure frustration with no interaction or any fun element in the match. Same was her and is probably the best comparasion and people are still complaining about Ghoul and I understand it. -
@AdamZ said:
Hell nah!
It's reasonable thread. I as killer main don't use this perk for how busted it is and I'm surprised at hasn't been addressed yet. I like rewarding for hooks, but holding objective hostage and stale game upon three gen is defienetly not correct path and is a massive step back. Understanding that averaga game you get about 8 hooks = 400s of denying progressing objective is insane = 20 tokens of pain resonance, 13 triggers of deadlock, a worth of 5 additional gens needed to be completed. The perk should be at least reverted to have window upon hooking, because it makes a lot of killers able to easily stale gens cross map, providing it still a good slowdown but urge to push people of gens instead of pressuring them cross map. I'm not even saying how insanely busted is this towards camping and tunneling.
Rework:
Upon hooking survivor this perk activates for 50s, any survivor stop repairing generator will block it for remainder of the timer. This perk can be triggered on one gen and can't be activated untill it's previous use elapses.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971638#Comment_3971638
But that is my whole point of this thread and my idea. It would keep them from slugging, make them even more fun to play as and against.
Twins is a killer that genuinely NEEDED a rework. Instead they got "Adjustments" Meanwhile Trickster, Sadako, SkullMerchant, Freddy all got reworks that were NOT needed respectfully.
Twins doesn't have to be loss, but BHVR shouldn't definitely fix their chapter for sure. It would smooth things out and I would certainly be a lot more interested in playing Twins myself b/c currently I do not. I really love Macro Gameplay.
I sadly think that BHVR doesn't priorotize Twins, neither have plans to spend any resources on further development on them. I guess we have to wait and see if they will revisit them once their "to do" list is fullfilled.