Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@JonOzzie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486453#Comment_3486453
Old sabo meta was overpowered. One survivor could Sabo a hook for the entire game. Instablinds were overpowered and were nerfed. Body blocking is not overpowered. It takes teamwork and risk. Multiple survivors making a play to save each other is not overpowered. You likely got one or two hits in the process. And all the while, the survivors were not doing generators. Please stop with this nonsense.
And all the while, the survivors were not doing generators.
right.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486299#Comment_3486299
Even if you did get hit with DS, 3 seconds is VERY little. It’s really only 2 seconds since 1 second of the animation is spent dropping the survivor to the floor. As @MikaelaWantsYourBoon said, just don’t focus down one survivor and you’ll be fine. Don’t act like DS doesn’t have counterplay, because it absolutely does.
the counter-play is eating the perk and playing strong efficient chasing killer that downs swiftly.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485823#Comment_3485823
Yeah I agree, I don’t think self care as a concept is healthy for the game. It needs to be a team game. Self caring needs to be extremely limited and extremely time inefficient. It’s supposed to be bad for the team but good for you.
you produce new found problem which is everyone playing injured aka exposed for entire match. there is not much point in health-states existing if you cannot obtain them easily. do you think it is healthy for survivor to be exposed for the entire match?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486415#Comment_3486415
Which is? Killer capitalizing on such an opportunity? Or survs blocking to stop a tunnel?
body blocking.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Survs trading health states is one of the most effective forms of teamwork in this game. It's also sadly often needed to interrupt a hard tunnel.
Smart timely blocking will usually benefit the team overall, whether it's allowing a reset to the team or slowing momentum. But the reverse is true as well. Unwise blocking should lead to the snowballing that can bring everything to a screeching halt.
one word. overpowered.
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a player that does not want to play the match can suicide on hook. so you won't get a bot and still face same 3vs1 problems. Likewise, if they remove d/c penalties then killers that are not survivor approved will just result in instant d/c's where every time a killer player picks a killer, they can only play vs bots. fascinating problem BVHR has. It sounds like they're embracing their entitled survivor community.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Didn't you used to see Victor's aura even while he was on someone?
I haven't played Twins for a long time as everyone else, so I have no idea. I am pretty sure it used to be a thing tho.
that only if you can recall him after 30 seconds I think. I have not played twins in long time to remember the mechanic. either way you can safe pallets and play safe. basic m1 killer looping. the aura disappears to not give killer wall-hacks on the survivor.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Tunnelling is popular strategy from day one.
It was understandable when maps was so survivorside.
It was tolerable when DS was strong.
Now maps nerfed and DS is garbage.
So why BHVR is not doing anything for this unhealthy strategy. It's very hated by survivors but yet BHVR is just ignoring all complains.
Imagine you are paying for this game but then one player just does not allow you to play.
Before someone is coming with "USE OTR" let me say this. OtR is the worst anti-tunnel perk ever. It has very easy counter, early hit. DS was so much better.
Plus DS was unexpected, killer did not know you have it or not. But it's so easy to figure if you have OTR.
because there is no counter-play to DS. there is no alternative way for killer to win.
If you slug a decisive strike user for 60 seconds ->60 second that 3 people can rush generators+potencial pick-up.
if you don't slug decisive strike user and pick up -> free second chance to extend chases. you get punished either way. lose/lose perk. creating anti-tunnel perk is punishing killer for playing the game.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
I'm not really a fan of its main effect being that it just applies the state of every single ailment from every other add-on. It feels too all-encompassing and reads like a Power description itself.
If I were to suggest a change that I feel would make it worthy of running as an Ultra Rare, this is what I think it should be:
Iridescent King
A glass-like king chess piece molded from the Fog itself. The Entity's embrace reverberating within can break the most powerful minds and bodies.
- Changes the Shock Therapy ability into an arc of lightning with an 8 meter range and a 1 meter width. In this state, Shock Therapy can damage Survivors.
- Decreases the amount of Madness afflicted to Survivors that are struck by Shock Therapy by 50%.
- Removes the ability to stun Survivors or hit through solid objects with Shock Therapy.
Survivors with Madness suffer from the Affliction of Obedience:
- Madness II: Windows and vault locations become charged with electricity after vaulting them, blocking them for 6 seconds.
- Madness III: Windows, vault locations and dropped pallets become overcharged with electricity when a Survivor is within 12 meters of their location, blocking them completely.
This would be really fitting of an Ultra Rare add-on and would give Doctor another interesting tool in his arsenal that wouldn't be too broken (relatively speaking) and would implore a more unique playstyle from people who want to use it.
(Also there's a cute little reference for those that have played DbD for a long while.)
isn't that just pyramid head?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486016#Comment_3486016
Interesting, it also looks like the shock range add-ons also had charge speed penalty, which in effect would also increase the speed penalty in a different way. Maybe they should just reverse the charge speed penalty into a boost on those add-ons instead of my speed adjustments, but I think Restrain should absorb the exhaustion effect and longer aura still. The scream on Madness tier up already essentially reveals them for nearly the 3s, so it only really gets value if combined with Lethal at the moment.
If they reversed the old charge speed penalties into boosts, the speed numbers would be the following over 1 second: Live 3.84m/s, Mouldy Electrode 5% 3.878m/s, Polished Electrode 10% 3.916m/s, High Stimulus Electrode 15% (Or T1+T2) 3.954m/s, T1+T3 20% 3.992m/s, and T2+T3 4.03m/s. (This simplified calculation above is based around reaching 3.08 at half charge, but technically is slopes downward. So I used half the charge time at 4.6 and half the charge time at 3.08, with the spare time back up at 4.6)
they usually do not increase m/s of killers charging power. they decrease charge time so your slowed for less amount of time. for example billy's chainsaw or pig ambush dash have those types of add-on's to get slowed for less time.
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iri king used to apply exhaustion in the past. there used to be 5th affliction for doctor which was called obedience add-on. it was an add-on that made his skill-checks have reverse effect and it applied exhaustion.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
If Made For This is supposedly broken at 3% and that isn't even active all the time could you imagine what a permanent boost would do?
hacking 1 drone from skull merchant is 3%. bloodlust is permanent 5%. it would help killer vs shift-w survivors.
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another pinky finger nerf thread.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485351#Comment_3485351
Many loops are large enough that you can't mindgame, because the survivors would hear the directional audio change well before you reach them.
And if Spirit does "mindgames" on the small loops, she's really just brute forcing with her phasing speed, by doing things like getting a survivor to vault and then phasing to the other side of the pallet before the survivor can vault again. And those loops are generally short enough that the pallet was unsafe, and the killer could have gotten the hit even if they weren't spirit.
precisely. m1 killer with extra steps.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I think they would be too oppressive if they couldn’t be blinded. Which makes me think they should add more basekit counterplay to them and then remove the ability to blind them kinda like what they did with Hag. Pallet stuns are an option but that’s often extremely inefficient/not reasonable if there isn’t a pallet nearby.
I do think the devs separating counterplay from items is a good thing in general. As such, I’d also like to see maps lose the ability to track killer-specific objects like bear traps. (And maps could use some other changes too while they’re at it, to make them better.)
there is base-kit counter-play to the zombies. there's little trick where you can steer a zombie then run behind it and AI loses you and starts wandering away. if nemesis has zombie speed add-on, it takes very little time to do it as you can steer zombie away from gen and then lose it.. it is somewhere between 10-25 seconds to outplay zombie. I am honestly not sure if it should work that way since it makes his zombies really weak and non-existent ability.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Not really a fan of this. BHVR wants to be consistent with their Terror Radius (granted, Deathslinger is the only Killer with 32m while being only 4.4m/s). But all of their Terror Radius-ranges are multiplications of 8. (16 for Myers Tier 2, 24 for most 4.4m/s Killers, 32 for Standard and 40 for Wesker)
Also I dont really want to see a Deathslinger with 20m Terror Radius when using M&A. In general, I never really got why he was at 24m to begin with. Huntress gets a big Lullaby to announce her presence and Deathslinger was the stealthiest guy ever.
because time efficiency? if you land get initial m1 hit, you can spear to get quick 2 hit combo. with current TR, you have to fire 2 shots every time leading to guaranteed reload time waste. TR was a way to preserve his ammo and make 1 bullet gun more effective.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485019#Comment_3485019
But now there’s zero mind games for the survivor, because the buffed directional audio doesn’t get affected by sound occlusion, so it’s always 100% crystal clear. This isn’t “some information”. It’s perfect information of which direction Spirit is, at all times when she is phasing near the survivor.
The only thing Spirit has now is brute force through her phasing speed, which isn’t mind games at all.
inexperienced player won't understand mindgames. i had long conversation with old slinger with gandor. there is no point in arguing. spirit is not about mindgames anymore. she's more about brute-force speed between pallet loops. the survivor makes no guesses but killer makes some guess based off location after you break the pallet as spirit. I think you'll still be able to play spirit post-MDR nerf because you can get old MDR by combining with yellow speed add-on. you'll get 35% speed which is only 5% less then current MDR. Eventually if they go billy-route with spirit, they might remove all speed add-on on her and put heavy negatives like --2 second and -1 second duration on phase-walk for speed add-on's to remove incentive to use them.
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@Frogsplosion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485123#Comment_3485123
A simple fix would then to be implementing a cooldown on the haste effect such as when the chase starts it goes on cool down for 10 seconds and can't be reactivated until you've left the chase for at least 5 seconds or something of that nature.
Basically what I was trying to get at is that m1 killers like trapper desperately need an "out of combat" travel time boost for bigger maps especially but also just in general given how fast the game currently moves.
the difference in mobility between 110% m/s and 115 m/s is very minor. 8% difference in map traverse is minimal time waste. haste has most impact in chases especially when your far away from the survivor and your trying to catch-up to them as they continuously greed loops and distance to maximize time waste. Scottjund had a video on that in regard map traversal between 110% and 115% m/s. moving around quickly outside of teleportation/extremely fast movement speed(billy chainsaw) will not save that much time.
biggest time sinks for killer are finding survivors, chasing survivors(both pre-chase and in-chase) and putting them on a hook. Yes i am not joking about last one. haste might be useful to get to survivor quicker but an easier solution to that is making survivor unable to escape and fall to the floor automatically. I am honestly not sure why survivor making a mistake of walking into a trap deserves second chances vs ability. a trick to getting to trapped survivors is playing 1 area. trapper's ability is kinda 3 gen-lock down focused because traps that are set far away take too long for you to reach survivor that step on them. Worse if they disarmed, you will take long walk to re-arm them. judging from skull merchant's reception, survivor probably do not want trapper to be strong due to their great dislike to 3 gen strategy killers.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484905#Comment_3484905
Reveal bullied - I understand wanting to get a chase mechanic for him, but I almost think a reveal revenge mechanic might fix this in a 2 birds 1 stone type of way. They already have some (mediocre) add-ons to do this (10s exhausted), but maybe a basekit Clown strength hindered for the Killer Instinct duration (or the pre-buffed 2s, with the Killer instinct duration add-on increasing this hindered duration instead of both) would be all right. This could also function as a chase mechanic to disincentivize looking back in chase for too long at the risk of being hindered. Also an important mechanical factor is you can't reveal Ghosty while marked (barring laggy frame-perfect reveal+mark timings), so he wouldn't be able to double-dip and have you both exposed AND hindered, at least with his power. Thematically it could be the Survivor scared they ticked Ghosty off, as honestly his annoyed sighs like when pallet stunned are some of my favorite aesthetic aspects to him. It's just so unnerving that you stun this normal sized dude, and he isn't hurt or put into a blind rage like Huntress, he is just like "ugh, now ... you're dead". The main reason this could be bad though, is lower skill brackets might find the lose-lose nature of it unfun. However we already have lose-lose mechanics with Deathslinger and Pyramid Head holding power at loops to zone, or Artist existing at all, so I don't feel like this is a new type of unfun scenario, as the counter is not looking at him for too long, almost Slenderman like. Heck, the 'don't look at the Killer' as a mechanic was already asked for, so maybe this could be how it's implemented.
Info - Yeah I love Floods because everyone expects Pain Res, but they all too often forget about Floods revealing them. On nearly every Killer I love pairing the 2. I only am not using Floods for the most part right now, because I have Iri cam to essentially do its job in place of it, so I put on Gift of Pain for the lose-lose of instadown without stalk due to injured, or slowed gens and I can still mark and instadown you.
Not reset stalk on hit - I'm not sure about this being a buff on the high skilled end. I like the idea of counterplay, and the main time people are able to take an unmarked hit is while a Survivor is carried. If you take an hit while carried that just means you're injured near the hook, so he can either take a quick chase with the partial value of a proxy camp (followed by the potential of a popped 99 on the other would be rescuer), or you can follow up on the injured Surv later from stealth unless they get healed. Even then, them getting healed feels like it helps you in terms of slowdown (usually 32 gen seconds, 16s from 2 survs) and injured perk denial (Resil for gens, MfT, DH), and you can easily re-mark them. Overall I think this would be a nerf to Ghosty rather than a buff, at least in my games.
Overall I personally really like where Ghostface is right now, and I just don't want to see him buffed to the point they nerf things about him that don't need to be nerfed. That's why I partially pushed against the 24s->20s CD on his power. Honestly if they do add the 'reveal revenge' hindered concept, I'd hope they pre-emptively bump his CD back up to 24s to be on the safe side.
that hindered idea is similar to add-on idea that I had where a survivor becomes automatically marked whenever they reveal ghostface. if you pair both add-on, you could expose someone for a weird reverse GF build. That idea might be funny if it was meme bloodpoint add-on that disables stalking.
lose-lose mechanics. lose-lose mechanic are not inherently bad in my opinion. you can have situations where there is lose/lose but what matters is how well you mitigate situations that put you into a lose/lose. a skill-cap of a lose/lose mechanic can be how well you manage to avoid/mitigate the effects of a lose/lose mechanic. I imagine if you gave -15% hindered for 2.5 seconds, inexperienced survivors would reveal at times where they would be punished while experienced survivors would reveal you in places where they will not get punished.
That's why I partially pushed against the 24s->20s CD on his power.
my assumption on the change is to reduce down-time to go into night-shroud after hooking a survivor. The change as side effect avoids those awkward situations where someone is near fully stalk and you can m1 hit the survivor but your power is on cooldown so your just waiting for cooldown to get the expose hit. I agree. I like his state in general even if it is not super strong.
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@Frogsplosion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484727#Comment_3484727
Because the haste turns off when you get into a Chase, so you can't actually use it to down survivors it's just a travel bonus
but you can moonwalk/look at the floor to keep haste effect while chasing loops similar to very old legion deep wound mechanic.
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@mizark3 said:
I think Ghostface is somewhat like Nurse in that it requires an entirely different playstyle in order to play the game. People see Ghostface is a 4.6 M1 Killer, instead of seeing that as a tool in his kit. 4.6 is merely there to limit his ability to instadown people. That's why when I see people prioritizing chasing Survivors, I pejoratively call them 'ChaseFaces' instead of Ghostfaces.
The best way I can describe it is DBD as an RTS. Some Killers are more micro, or chase/lethality focused, like Deathslinger forcing different interactions at common loops since he can drag you to the window. Some are more macro, or stealth/map mobility/slowdown/Intel focused, like Pig with stealth and traps for slowdown. Some are both, like Wesker having chase, lethality, map mobility, intel and slowdown. Ghostface too is both Micro and Macro, but he doesn't change how you chase, he has lethality AND stealth. The problem is people treat the Lethality as chase altering, instead of taking advantage of the stealth to combine the strengths.
To an extent he functions similarly to Legion and Plague, in that all the Survivors can be treated as 'injured' or 99'd then mark downed. However, since they are healthy while doing so, they fail to get value from any 'while injured' perks like Resilience or MfT, and also mostly wasted their time healing. It costs you time and effort as Ghostface though to set up multiple stalks, like a farmer, you cultivate your animals for a future slaughter. If they remain injured, you can sneak up from odd angles, and only a Sprint Burst can reasonably save them, making Fearmonger practically a free-win perk against those who stay injured.
Most people crutch on multiple slowdowns as Killer in order to slow games down enough to win, but that backfires and hurts Ghostface. You don't have the map traversal speed to apply gen kick perks multiple times, so Pain Res is basically the only good slowdown. Instead Lethality and Intel serve you far better. Bamboozle helps prevent the rare busted windows from being a problem, although I must admit it is a comfort pick for me to prevent those negative extremes. Lethal Pursuer is arguably the single best perk, as you want people to go on gens so you can stalk them from a distance. Unlike Corrupt, it forces an early chase, which is NOT what you want. Remember, Myers has a distance penalty when stalking but Ghostface doesn't. The further you stalk people from, the better, and don't let them know they are 99'd. Allowing a gen or two to pop in the start is worth it if you get 2 or 3 unknown to them 99's. Then get an instadown, and use your knowledge of how you would play Survivor to cut people off. If you have BBQ or Iri Cam add-on, you can keep track of most players and always be a step or two ahead of them.
I hate to say this, but the greatest weakness for Ghostface is the same as Trapper and Hag, which is the lowest hook Survivor stalking the Killer and deleting their power. If Trapper/Hag has no traps, and Ghostface has nobody 99'd, they swiftly (or sometimes slowly) lose. Allowing for the Survivors to 'bully' you out of power is the worst thing.
By saying 'Ghostface has no pressure' show a lack of understanding that Lethality IS pressure. It is even more powerful pressure when your opponent doesn't know that you are currently lethal to them. The basic pressure formula of a hook being 75% slowdown shows that. (To be clear, by 75% slowdown I am referring to the hooked Survivor unable to progress gens, the rescuer not progressing gens, and if that rescuer gets marked or otherwise harried by a strategic 'chase', then another Survivor has to be the rescuer instead. That leaves for only 1 Survivor to do gens.)
I was against the reduction of his power from 24s to 20s, but only for the higher end match potential (not tournament level highEST end, but normal matchmaking higher end). It might be the kill-rate stat buff needed for lower skill brackets. For a buff to both lower skill and higher skill brackets, maybe part of OP's knife slowdown/intel idea applied to when you hit someone with 50%+stalk (when forced like carried hits). The best buff though, would be making leans be client sided instead of server sided again. He was designed with a client sided lean, and when they swapped to servers that screwed over the lean mechanic that has only partially been addressed. (Heck they even nerfed it so you couldn't toggle crouch without breaking the lean at one point. I don't know if that still is the case only because I have him down to muscle-memory, so I can't actually tell you what inputs I do when playing, just overarching concepts.)
TL:DR Ghostface IS his power, with M1 framework to help, not M1 framework with his power to help.
the greatest weakness for Ghostface is the same as Trapper and Hag, which is the lowest hook Survivor stalking the Killer and deleting their power. If Trapper/Hag has no traps, and Ghostface has nobody 99'd, they swiftly (or sometimes slowly) lose. Allowing for the Survivors to 'bully' you out of power is the worst thing.
when that occurs. that is very annoying. those are definitely the less fun matches for GF. what would help there is some chasing power. there is no fear factor in bullying m1 killers.
Most people crutch on multiple slowdowns as Killer in order to slow games down enough to win, but that backfires and hurts Ghostface.
information is super important for ghostface because it lets you plan your attack. I personally use BBQ and flood of rage. a long time ago, I used to gearhead just to see yellow gens.
Ghostface IS his power, with M1 framework to help, not M1 framework with his power to help.
I think most killers play him like an m1 killer with his power as side effect. a change that would help for people that play ghost like that is for m1 attacks to not reset stalk meter. stealth killer are ultimately not that rewarding in dbd. as a result, the idea of putting effort into a killer that is not very strong. The result is that killers take the lazy route.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484736#Comment_3484736
The words “Chase better” would make more sense if most of the pallets in the game were designed to be mind gameable, god pallets were deleted + Bloodlust numbers to ed down
If Killers are expected to demonstrate skillful play via chase to win, the same should apply for Survivors.
right. generators are an ok spot. it is killer power in relationship to how looping works that could be more improved but apparently weak killer do not exist and everyone has great kill-stats.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483584#Comment_3483584
Hypothetically, let's do that. Who should be in charge of that balancing?
If we extend gen time to say, 120 seconds, would that be sufficient?
Now the VAST majority of players CANNOT win a match and are getting stomped every game.
Congrats, you've made DBD into a game nobody wants to play. Bad idea.
arbitrarily, killers should need to do well in the chase to gain longer gens. giving such huge gen increases for free may leads to killer winning when they do not deserve to win.
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why I ever want to set any traps as trapper? the haste is way better then setting traps... I value the ability to counter holding-w way more then my ability to disable pallets/loops.
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@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484520#Comment_3484520
head on yes. not having problems with smash hit or background player because simply nobody uses them. why im being punished for chasing a survivor? it gives survivor a head start even in the deadzones! for lithe, its just when you finally won the mind game, but they got the speed from lithe and made another safe tile. now I have to start mindgaming/chasing again. they are NOT fine. this comes from 50/50 player, exhaustion perks are literally free looping mechanics.
fearmonger and blood echo do exist. they certainly impact the game for killer but it is not like killer perk do not help killers in some tactical way.
@nars said:
the only exhaustion perks athat are completely skilless would be lithe and maybe MFT. Lithes skill floor is in the mariana trench, but it does have skill in trying to conserve it.
Overcome requires you to get hit, making it provide less value than more versatile perks
SB is the most skilled perk in the game
BL requires very good pathing to get value from consistently
Overcome just gets you out of a deadzone, and you are sacrificing SB for that
Smash hit needs a stun and is very easy to play around
Head on requires team coordination
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Its just MFT and Lithe that can be called skilless, the rest are fine.
Also since you mentioned crouching you play either pig or ghostie... both C-tiers. Dont complain about balance when you are playing a bad killer if you can still 2k consistently.
the difference between bad looper using MFT and an experienced looper that uses every bit of distance to waste killer time is night and day. in many ways, i think MFT is highest skill-ceiling perk to use because of how drastic difference there is between two players using it. the other exhaustion perk are nowhere near MFT in skill difference. Like can you tell difference between one lithe player and another Lithe player? They all look same to me. Dead hard has skill-cap to use it correctly but you can't tell much difference between two survivors that use DH well. they're same in some sense where they will use it in a similar way.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
Ive seen a lot of bad and good reviews
From the few games I played as her on ptb she felt Allright
These are just ideas I had but maybe tp is on a 10s cooldown?
Or holding a tape when she tp builds 1/4 or 1/2 of a stack
I honestly think she needs a small tweak and she'll be good
What do you think
she's going get hard-countered by people holding tapes 24/7 so she lost a method of condemn build-up. her mobility is worse from 15 second cooldown and her add-on are worse. she'll be less common. Not that I play against her that much anyway.
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@RubberBrain said:
Ghostface feels to be a favorite for behavior, however even with all the buffs he still feels slightly too weak, he is nothing more then an M1 killers with stealth and a chance to end a chase earlier, however that time that a chase ends earlier doesn’t make up for the time it takes to stalk them then then the distance they make, some people 99 and do the stalk mid chase however this doesn’t lower the time waste by too too much. The reason why the insta-down doesn’t make up for the time lost is because first, you have to get the stalk off and sometimes the lean mechanic doesn’t work well. However after you get the stalk you usually aren’t right next to them so they often get plenty of time to get to a nice loop, and possibly chain it (because again he is just an M1 killer and his stealth and and crouching doesn’t do anything on a short loop), now you could say just get closer before you stalk but unless the survivor is scarily unaware they will see you coming and can often uncloke you before you get the stalk which wastes more time for you because either you hit them, which removes your power, or wait for your power to come back which lets them get to a loop (unless you are indoors of which you can hide behind corners and get close).
People may try to defend his weak power by saying getting those insta-downs reliably or even just using his power as a chase power is overpowered, however Ghostface has no pressure or passive slowdown (unless the survivor is new and hides throughout the entire stalk time), he need to be able to have a more reliable chase power to make up for everything else.
Now here is where I would give my suggestion, there are many different things they could do but the most balanced, funnest and probably easiest inclusion would be a speed boost after getting a stalk much like one of purple addons (Drop-leg knife Sheath?) there are many different things they could do with this, such as just a one to one implementation of that addon as a basekit to his power, an increase or decrease in either time or haste percentage when activated or a combination of both an increase and a decrease. They wouldn’t even need to change the addon much instead just boosting the basekit (like most addons should do) much like borrowed time. Now I want to talk about my preferred version of this inclusion as well as uses for beyond a faster insta-down. First they could lengthen the time it is active compared to the addon, while slightly lowering speed, this doesn’t make him feel too strong and gives survivors still time to make it to the loop if they play it well, while maybe giving Ghostface a very small bit of extra time to play around the loop. Now outside of uses for insta-downing the person you stalked, this will also give Ghostface some power if you are forced to hit them (such as hitting when carrying which gets rid of your stalk progress or any other strategic reason) this allows Ghostface to have some threat and power if they are injured (especially with Made for this and how it is) a secondary use is getting the stalk mid chase, it isn’t a speed boost you can activate immediately and you still must work for it however it allows you to have more power mid chase to end chases quicker when you are mainly just an M1 killer. There are probably many reasons to use this that wouldn’t be too broken but would be fun and useful, such as stalking someone across the map because you know you can get them later to use the speed boost to get to a gen or using the retaining speed boost after a down to get to a hook better (or stalking someone near by and leaving them).
I do not believe this would make him all that strong either way but would make him much more fun and would make him better at what he is supposed to be good at (which he’s not good at)
ghostface's issue is his inability to capitalize off the marked ability. he lacks the follow-up to his instant down. gf would benefit greatly from having some mobility tool in his kit to gap-close survivors that were marked. prior to wesker's release, I suggested a dash that allows ghostface to dash and down marked survivors. Now wesker kinda has that type of dash ability. Drop-leg add-on is sort of his mini-dash in the form of haste.
The main issue is homogenization killer powers. Wraith has speed boost coming out of cloak. if you give gf that type of speed to GF, then you get two killers two powers that are too similar to each other. it is same issue where if you give gf a type of dash similar to wesker, it takes away the uniqueness of another killer.
Ghostface feels to be a favorite for behavior, however even with all the buffs he still feels slightly too weak
he feels a lot better to play now. GF slight too weak problems is same problem that all m1 killer have issues with. lack of chase power. the wheel of creativity is hard to develop as more type of killer powers get added. I can't think of any creative power that would change him. Maybe he could throw his knife at marked survivors but that is not very original. he is fine where he is at.
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@nars said:
uh no that makes it 100% worse, its only swfs who abuse boil over. now they'll be taking hits and you'll never get a hook
you can slug. too bad all generator will be done before it matters.
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I agree partially. weaken mother daughter ring is being weakened right around the corner.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484044#Comment_3484044
Perfectly balanced 🙏
But on a serious note, Killer also doesn't know where the Totems are, so if you're looking for them all game Survivors have enough time to find and cleanse one before you could probably even get 2 or 3 stacks of Pentimento, and since the Killer would also bring Corrupt, he would give Survivors free Generator progress before even finding the totems, not even mentioning that Survivors would find your Totems on the side of the map that you just left.
issue is that blight can run haunted ground, hex:penti, hex undying and shatter hope. you could potentially light all 5 totems within first 2 minutes of the game if you find remaining two totems.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484055#Comment_3484055
They nuked survivor perks as well. Eruption was problematic, Dead Hard was busted. These 2 needed some good nerfs but most of perks overnerfed.
Especially Thana nerf was so stupid. People complained it on Legion and Plague. They nerfed perk, now it's useless for all killers except Plague and Legion
they are doing some perk updates. they changed like 3-4 perks significantly on each side in following update. there are perks change but it is very slow. I do agree with killer perks being a lot more boring. survivor side is more interesting with MFT.
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@Meepy13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483764#Comment_3483764
Edited the post, I realize now saying every endurance perk is easy to activate is dumb
it used to have drawbacks. when endurance first came out, Borrow time used to give you endurance when unhooking a survivor. both unhooked person and you received endurance. when endurence would proc, deep wound used to take 30 seconds until survivor would be put into dying state. After awhile, they had multiple iteration of changing deep wound due to Legion. lastest change to endurance happened on 6.7.0 where being in deep wound does not allow endurance to tank a hit. since then, no changes have occurred.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483732#Comment_3483732
Uh yeah, SM can force a 3-gen.
She's really the only Killer who can. There's literally nothing Survivors can do about it if she decides that's what she wants.
Very good, coordinated groups CAN beat that strategy. It's not infallible. The issue is convincing those groups that spending 45 minutes in a single DBD match is worth their time.
It's an ego battle at that point and everyone knows it's not worth it.
i think all killer can force 3 gens. I don't know how long you can stall with each one of them precisely but length of the game depends on survivor's skill and the map.
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@[Deleted User] said:
There's a fine line with slugging in terms of game design. I think it's important for a killer to be able to slug, and there's nothing inherently wrong with slugging in and of itself. But I think perks designed as force multipliers for slugging are really bad design. It's not a playstyle that makes the game better as a whole. Slugging is fine to a point, but 4 man bleedout builds should be discouraged, not incentivized with new perks.
you could always run no mither. maybe no mither mains are not so crazy after all. alternatively, there is getting better at the chase.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483714#Comment_3483714
And all I am saying those arguments have many flaws.
MFT is nowhere near fine level.
Of course I know it was broken. I was playing during that time and it was hell to deal with it and I know what devs said about that perk.
I was playing killer as well. Playing freddy vs unlimited range wall hacks around loops. now that was interesting.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483620#Comment_3483620
How dare people not want to play for 45 minutes just to break a 3-gen.
it should not take 45 minutes to break a 3 gen on every map. your acting like this is every game. i am not saying 3 gens do not have problems but overall they are not that bad other then the game not being interesting for survivor.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483692#Comment_3483692
It had low pick rate, because SWF needed only one per team. Same as CoH.
It had low escape rate, because as soon killer noticed OoO, they went full tunnel.
But that perk was still super broken. Low escape rate, low pick rate and still one of most annoying perks.
MFT is not an issue for top tier killers, because of their mobility. That's why they are top tier killers.
But it's really good against average M1 killers.
Then you have few killers where it is actually broken.
If your advice is not play those killers, then I can't be bothered to explain more how bad this is.
If killer loses more against a perk you want to buff killer instead? It doesn't make any sense, because not everyone wants to use that perk. That's just creating more issues. Some of those killers who struggle against MFT needs buff, but most of them would be absolutely fine without this single perk existing.
i am explaining pulsar's point of view and other people POV for why they think MFT is fine. I am not saying killers need buffs. I am saying that balance is relative to the situation. '
But that perk was still super broken. Low escape rate, low pick rate and still one of most annoying perks.
You don't really know that. maybe it was broken overall. maybe it wasn't. In the context that I describe OoO, OoO was broken. A killer following a survivor around a binary circular loop for 10+ minutes straight around midwich elementary school was unhealthy. that is why OoO got changed. on technical level, the problem is still there but it is not as easy to exploitable with object as before. Instead you can exploit it with by stacking haste perks hence I imagine something will be done in regards to haste stacking at some point in time.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483654#Comment_3483654
I'm mediocre survivor and i get a ton of value from this perk. You don't need to be 0,1% top mmr survivor to reach any pallet or window for free.
Your missing the point. I am not saying you need 0.1% to use the perk. I am saying whether it is statistically imbalanced. in other words. Is it fair to vs.?
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483662#Comment_3483662
Statistics are basically useless for this. Do you want to tell me your consider Nurse weakest killer and Pig strongest killer in dbd?
If no, then you can't use it for perk either. You don't get to cherry pick.
You think escape rate matters for perk and should decide balancing? Well guess what, old Object of obession had low escape rate, while it was one of most annoying and best perks survivors (SWF) could use.
Oppresive perk for part of player base is still an issue. That's exactly same for killer perk that was oppresive against soloQ and not against SWF. Eruption was not an issue for SWF at all. It was possible to beat it. But it was hell for soloQ. That's why it was an issue. Exact same logic applies for MFT.
well that is why they changed eruption, right? they saw killer was using eruption a lot and whenever the eruption perk was used, the killer would have higher win-rate ratio then when he was not using the perk. this makes sense because... well most games are soloq games and eruption was strong vs soloq therefore perk got nerfed.
old Object of obession had low escape rate, while it was one of most annoying and best perks survivors (SWF) could use.
it had low pick-rate because... the killer seeing your aura was significant drawback to the perk. Like old OoO is better then any tracking perk on killer. Like if you gave this perk to killer. some killer players might equip the perk. the average matches are soloq matches so of course the perk had low escape rate. SWF is minority of games and then there is even less good swf vs bad swf's. I have no clue what escape rate for good swf using OoO was but it was likely positive win-rate. in my opinion, OoO was imbalanced but only specific maps where aura reading could be exploited to hold shift-w. Old gas heaven was an example of that. there used to be those huge debree piles where you could run in circles endlessly with aura reading. Another classic example is midwich elementary school where people would stand at 1 end of hallway with wallhacks and you as killer would need to go all the around for like 10+ minutes to catch-up to a survivor running in a circle.
statistic cannot not catch OoO imbalance because it is so specific that it does not occur in the average game. that is why statistics don't mean everything and you really need analysis gameplay to see an issue with something like that.
Oppresive perk for part of player base is still an issue.
Pulsar could be right. MFT might not be oppressive because average killer is strong enough to not have troubles with it. Does blight really care that you move 3% faster? Likely not really. Can it make him lose? It can but likely not enough for it to be game-breaking therefore balanced. Then take Otz sadako clip. Is sadako on average strong enough to beat MFT? I don't know. Perhaps vs Sadako, Sadako loses more when playing vs MFT. So sadako/x killer might need buffs. In the end, what is balance and what is not balanced is relative.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483654#Comment_3483654
I can say that about any perk or killer that was nerfed.
It was possible to beat old Nurse, because most of them are not good at Nurse....
It was possible to cleanse old Undying and win against it... Was it balanced? Hell no, but it was possible to win against it.
well that is logic in games right? its called win-rate. most games have targeted win-rate 50%. dbd has targetted win-rate of 60% on killer i.e you are expected to win with 3k or 4k 60% of the time and it has targeted win-rate for survivor where survivor must have at least 4 survivor escaping, 3 survivors escaping or 2 survivors escaping through exit gate at 40% ratio. so in principal, MFT might be balanced. it probably is balanced because strong killer exist but it could imbalanced vs x killer that are weak. more people play strong killers then they play weak killers. you get the picture.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483542#Comment_3483542
He had game today where he lost against 4x MFT and 2x Hope... Would that be better?
I think his point is that you can defeat survivors with MFT because most survivor are not good at looping. MFT is strong when survivor is good at looping so statistically, the perk will have an average death and escape ratio. in other words, they won't change it because it is not performing out of expectation. the weaker survivor won't use it. its too hard to use. they'll use lithe because its better value for that level of play. the people that are using it do not use it well. the people that will use it well are top 0.1% of survivors but they don't balance around for killer or survivor.
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slugging is part of the game. there are perks to encourage being slugged, perks to discourage slugging as form of second chance get ups, perks that punish you for leaving survivors on the floor. it is all part of the game. it is valid tactic but its highly impractical for killer. you need down survivors like 5/6+ times each before they die.
At very very start of the game, there used to be a perk that Jake had called saboteur. saboteur allowed you to permanently break hooks. I never played dbd at this time, but just reading this perk and how slugging mechanic work to this day. a perk that encourages killer to slug would be an instant win because it is way faster for killer to get kills by hooking then it is to leave survivors on floor. there is no incremental reward or punished for survivor forcing killer to slug, so you can just complete all gens before anyone ever dies on floor. it is no surprise that saboteur and sabotage have been nerfed to the ground with current slugging balance. if sabo was good like that, then it would be game-breaking. same can be said for boil over and power struggle. Power struggle arguably is game-breaking but only SWF would ever utilize it.
Decisive strike was probably most obvious perk to showcase this problem.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483375#Comment_3483375
She's a horrible design for a Killer.
You ENJOY holding 3-gens for an hour???
no. holding a 3 gen for an hour is survivor skill issue.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483520#Comment_3483520
You can't hide there, your purple dot, there's no cover and he walks right through it. And his heartbeat is the same from the moment he enters the main lobby, so you can't predict when he's going to turn that corner, particular when his loop is broken up by microchases.
I'm not entirely sure what the other survivors were doing, but they were intermittently getting injured and then hiding/healing.
you do not hide. you run forward as he falls down. if he chases you, he loses because survivor 4 can help survivor 1(green) to finish the gen. in practice, yellow will not be able finish his gen because he will constantly be interrupted but he can make killer stop to kick the gen which give you more time to work on your gen. Green should finish the gen faster then anyone because he has best positioning in relationship to the map. It takes most time for the killer to interrupt him in comparison to interrupting purple or yellow.
If you were getting hit then someone should heal you. In practice, you should try to be 15 meters ahead of the killer. 15 meters ahead of the killer is roughly where yellow or green is when away from generator. this makes killer not want to chase you because it takes too long for him to catch-up. if they do chase you, they will lose their 3 gen. In other words, you defeat 3 gen.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483501#Comment_3483501
I was on the gen in the library. When the killer came up to me, I didnt see him until he was already less than 10m away. The gen is right by the door, his TR was always present.
From that point he would push me out of the library and down to the next level, at which point he was closer to the other gen, or I would get injured, or both. If I didn't get injured anyway because 10m minus tentacle range doesn't leave much wiggle room. Either way, by the time I made the journey back to the gen, along his patrol route so avoiding getting injured there too, I got about 5 seconds of repair time before he was back on me again.
5% repair - 2.5% kick - 30+ seconds of regression = negative progress.
How do you deal with that?
RPD has strong 3 gen spawn. its pretty killer sided post-rework. I assume 3 gens are gen at bottom in main lobby, the gen on top of the left staircase and gen on library. RPD east wing is like dead dog saloon 3 gen. its impractical 3 gen to defeat. you work on the middle hallway generator and then you pre-shift w middle hallway generator by going on one the east wing exits. the library generator is generator that you just progress to threaten killer to walk to library and while killer walks to the library, your team should progress the middle hallway generator. RPD east wing is probably up there with most killer sided maps in the game. I'd probably class it as maybe 2nd killer-sided map in the game. you have to face weak killer to defeat that 3 gen. Just looking at that layout, I bet a nurse could 3 gen that map as infinity by just blinking to library back and forth.
it just showcases why having small maps is not good design. it promotes unhealthy gameplay with gen spread.
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Edit: This is what your survivor team should be doing vs nemesis. Survivor 1 in green should be doing gen. when he hears TR marked by thick red dot, he should run outside waiting for killer to kick gen and leave.
survivor #2 which is you. you should be doing gen and when you hear nemesis heartbeat intensify as he comes close to library door. you should run to next room then fall as he kicks gen. Location is marked by Thick red Dot for when you should be running away.
survivor #3 should be on middle hallway generator. he should let go of the generator as soon as he hears nemesis fall. he should move away to outside exit gate hallway. For yellow survivor, Thick red dot is marked on green line.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483491#Comment_3483491
And if you score hits along the way and force survivors to either spend time healing or running early...
getting hit is mistake. it is not game losing if 4 survivor are alive because 1 survivor can heal another survivor but doing gens part is slower.
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@Seraphor said:
so it's basically just a guaranteed survivor win, albeit a long one
- False, its a war of attrition, and it can definitely be the survivors who lose that war.
- The vast majority of solo survivors cannot coordinate well enough to break a 3 gen.
- Either way, nobody wants a long game like this.
I had this on RPD with a Nemesis yesterday, it wasn't even a close 3 gen, but it was possible for the Nemesis to get between the furthest gens faster than we could repair them, and with the occasional injury slowing things down, there was no chance of the three of us who remained getting that last gen done.
killer get 2.5% gen-kick regression. if you kick 10 gens in 3 gen. you get like 25% regression across gen-kicks. It shouldn't outpace your gen progress if you do not get hit and run away from generators. just let killer walk away and as he walks away, you progress gen. by the time killer returns, you should have more progress then 2.5% kick. you only need two people doing this. Of course it is way faster if you have 4 survivors doing this.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483080#Comment_3483080
Yeah 3rd token could work as well. I was thinking keep it at 4 but add like a mini block for each survivors first hook, like 15 seconds or something. Either way.
they could make it that the perk starts with 4 tokens. The first time that a new survivor that is hit loses a health-state. the generator with most progress and that is being worked on is blocked for 10 seconds. No clue if anyone would use it... but hey it is gen slowdown I guess. As long as you do not use it on legion, it might be useful.
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@not_requested49 said:
So a 5% dark theory speed boost that's map wide that can stack?
Shadow Step that is map wide and also hide blood pools and extends speed boost on hit by 1 second and can stack as well?
Exponential that actually fits its name and increases recovery by 250% and.. you get the picture
COH that is map wide and can heal you at 75% speed and 50% bonus to all healing too which of course stacks?
No, I think not. And anything less than these buffs in compensation for permanent removal on snuff would be a straight nerf for no reason when boons are rather weak as is besides COH, which isn't even overpowered anymore just decent
I agree. boon totems are fine. maybe minor improvement to their effects. their issue is limit radius.
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they are transparent. PTB is releasing Nickolas Cage and they're trying to change sadako to make her more terrifying. whatever that means.