Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Gandor said:
TBF I feel like Devs are removing those. Like GoJ was awful. Now it's just bad (but predictably so). A lot of maps had random stuff that's no longer there (going to basement in Thomson's comes to mind). There are still issues with newer maps (IDK about Toba, but definitely shattered square) - hopefully those will be fixed too
if a map is full of these branches, they become infinities for bubba chainsaw when you can legit loop a rock/tree/fence and because survivor model is smaller than killer. the survivor is faster than bubba's chainsaw due to tighter route vs wider route.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Just make it so there are not random invisible hitboxes near objects, so you don't get into tantrum.
I have a chainsaw but some branch I can walk through is able to trigger my tantrum...
that is worst thing ever. I hate the random polygons they put in some maps like badham and garden of joy where your chainsaw goes in tantrum. i wonder if these random branches are for blight slide tech because they are ultra-annoying for bubba chainsaw.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488604#Comment_3488604
I actually kind of like facing Trickster, nobody plays them because they have been in a bad spot for a really long time.
And I think the easiest way to make them more "enjoyable" for everyone is to bump up the base movement speed but add an invincibility period (or a period where Laceration is decreased compared to normal) after losing a health state (similar to what Plague has with Corrupt Purge).
add an invincibility period (or a period where Laceration is decreased compared to normal) after losing a health state
I do not agree. that is his major selling point over the other two range killer's. survivors do get speed boost when he injures them and it is not neccassary easy to land knives when a survivor has enhanced movement speed. taking knives during speed boosts is a misplay by survivor.
i believe plague has invincibility due to hook face-camping. you might not be able to save survivors hook akin to ranged facecamping bubba without invincibility. invincibility is anti-face camping feature for plague in my opinion. It would be cool if double hits worked outside hook radius.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488664#Comment_3488664
Well it shouldn't be, maps should be more in their favor as to encourage "following through" with the ambush, and not being forced into a game of hoping the survivors make a mistake (or hoping the survivors are uncoordinated as it is at the moment). But indeed that is how it is until something changes, that's why this is in feedback after all
there are killer that had stealth and used stealth as follow-through mechanic to get first hit. those two being spirit and deathslinger. Spirit gains an advantage if she gets first hit and her power does promote chasing though I do not think many people think of spirit as hit & run but she does have 24 meter terror radius. Back before she had no directional audio cue, you could hit & run with spirit using phase-walk.
Deathslinger was also pseudo stealth killer with a chasing tool. People said monitor&abuse was unfun on deathslinger and they weaken his gun so he no longer has any real stealth capacity similar to spirit. Like spirit, he gained an advantage for getting the first hit as his gun would become a lethal tool when injured.
I think your thinking more of these two types of stealth killers that used to have hybrid between stealth and chase. the wraith and ghostface type stealth killer are pure hit & run and their viability hinges on that gameplay being viable. asking "it should never lead to downs, ever, reserve does for actual skilled play." means that those pure hit & run killer will never be strong. I think your just failing to adapt to the killer's gameplay.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488657#Comment_3488657
I digress, if we agree on solos getting more help finding each other to heal up, then we agree to the full extent to which I want something done about this playstyle. If solos can reliably heal each other up, that's good enough for me as far as I can tell, because then hit and run is about delaying the game as opposed to getting downs, which is how it should be, because a strat like hit and run shouldn't progress the game for the killer, but I have no problem if it merely slows the survivors' progress down. I fully agree that being getting a hit should do something (notably, forcing a survivor to invest time into getting healed instead of working on a gen), which is why I don't at all defend old coh or medkits.
on the contrary, hit & run is how stealth killers are entirely meant to progress the game. they don't chase. they ambush and play off altruistic mistakes and poor map awareness. there is element to stalling but it is entirely a win condition for those killers. in the list of killers, i forgot to mention that dredge is also ambush killer, but only during nightfall. he's kinda half chase, half ambush though i think his ambient sounds(lullaby) and long locker exits make him sort of not that great at hit & run against more coordinate experienced teams. The lack of information to find people healing is mostly soloq vs swf type imbalance that been in the game for long time. I cannot say anything other then I don't really think it is that healthy but it is part of the game at least until something changes.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488628#Comment_3488628
So what? Whenever the hud show that nobody is being chased, everyone everywhere should just get off their gens? Especially when wraith and sadako in the next update can chase someone while cloaked/demanifested without it showing on the hud? Or should solos really just get the luxury that SWF has in countering this mindless playstyle? The fact is that swfs can just heal up and go back on the gen just fine without needing to use that info, and solos deserve to be able to as well. It's one thing when an ambush playstyle is in the form of someone like ghost face, who actually has to put effort into getting bang for his buck, but wraith sneaks up, gets a free injure on you, dips, then does the same thing again later for an easy down. It does not take effort. This kind of playstyle has no right being the way it is.
if killer is not chasing, he is not doing anything productive to advance his objective. your taking a risk to get gen progression in favor of the killer getting a chance to ambush you. hit & run is not intuitive because doing generator is trap. stealth killer use generators as bait to get hits. After that, they attempt to use your altruistic gameplay against you. You want to heal after you get hit? Well guess what? they don't want you to heal and they want ambush you when you are healing because that is when you are most vulnerable.
Previously, Med-kit healing was so over-tuned and anti-stealth perks were so outrageous powerful that you didn't need to be any good vs hit & run. The perks and items auto-piloted you to the win. Now it is more of skill-based interaction between survivor and killer. you have to learn how to play against hit & run. use game-sense to know when killer is leaving chases. use vantage points to heal to not get ambushed. etc. there is still lack of information in term of finding teammates to heal quickly which is still an issue but that is why perks like Bond, Empathy, kindred and so on exists. Truthfully, you should not be forced to run aura perks to play soloq but that is another topic entirely separate from hit & run.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488601#Comment_3488601
All of the above, I guess? They kinda overlap. The reason it's a free down is because you don't do anything remarkable for either hit, just sneak up on survivors from behind LOS blockers, there isn't anything they can do about it bc no matter how aware you are you're not gonna see a killer from behind a wall. And if whoever's playing this way would have to put in effort to get the hit for whatever reason, they just immediately drop chase and try again somewhere else. It's playing in a way that guarantees as much value with as little effort. This is especially and possibly only a problem in solo where you can't find your teammates to ensure safety in an area, so you either have to run around looking for them like a headless chicken, or just accept that you could easily go down at any time. Exposed is fine because you actually have to work for it and it can be very much dealt with, although ghost face for example only has to sneak up on you at first, finding a good spot is important since you will have to be in a survivor's LOS to stalk them, and that gives them the option to reveal you. Meanwhile a hit and run strategy with a stealth killer is basically the same thing, except without needing to be within LOS for a continuous amount of time before attacking, and over an obviously much longer period of time. I'm not saying a killer should always commit to a chase, but the game should be changed in a way that encourages that. This kind of playstyle is horrifically uninteractive and punishes solos disproportionately.
this is not true. this may have been a valid complaint before chase UI was introduced but it is not valid complaint now. You can tell when your teammate are being chased. When the killer leaves a chase, the chase UI will indicate that your teammate is not being chased. This was huge indirect nerf to stealth killers because previously, soloq had no information when a killer was inside a chase and when he was outside the chase. Now you do have that information. all you need to do is play passive. sometimes best play is not doing the gen and just waiting for the killer to re-enter the chase. Hit & run is counterable. it is just not an intuitive play-style to counter. Its similar to slugging. Its unorthodox play that requires out of the box gameplay.
Stealth killer like GF and Wraith are definitely designed around this ambush-type play-style. Myer's, Pig and Sadako also have stealth in their kit, but its purposely under-tuned due to mori mechanic. Those killer are in general under-tuned for regular gameplay but it is whatever. this type of gameplay is going nowhere. Previously there used to be instant-win type perks to counter this gameplay but now you have to learn to adapt to the play-style instead of relying on previous old perks that deleted the play-style entirely.
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that sounds more like a skill issue in not looping effectively and your teammates not helping you. perhaps they're not helping you because killer is camping you and they're using you as bait to do generators. gameplay would need to be shown.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Eyrie of Crows rework in my opinion has made the map worse for ranged Killers, especially Trickster, by providing a bunch of LOS blockers and weird geometry/hitboxes around certain loops which block ranged projectile. The map, in my opinion, has becomes worse after the rework for certain Killers.
Decimated Borgo recently had the walls around certain loops raised to prevent ranged Killers from hitting over them. For a map with a lot of clutter that can be used to dodge ranged projectiles, I feel as if it was especially unnecessary.
Toba Landing is a new map that was released with the recent Chapter. This map has a LOT of obstructions which not only makes tracking more difficult but provides a lot of cover. The dense forestry provides many foliage to use for hiding, but also many objects with collision that can be used to dodge and avoid hits with ranged projectiles.
To add salt into the wounds, BHVR released Made For This, which makes ranged Killers, that are already slow, have an even harder time catching up to Survivors around loops that ranged projectiles cannot be used, and in some cases, can even create infinite loops with certain structures.
Im not saying that BHVR hates ranged Killers, but I would simply like to point out how the recent game design choices seem to harm these Killers rather it is intentional or accidental.
I know someone will mention how "they have a ranged power for a reason" but there are many cases in DBD where ranged Killers are unable to use their power in a loop because the loop itself is designed with LOS blocking; this is also ignoring the existence of indoor maps entirely.
What are your thoughts on this?
i think they are not targeting ranged killers. they might be targeting nurse instead because Nurse relies on lots of LOS blockers and hold-w tactics to loop which both MFT and the maps are targeting.
The other character that they might be targetting is Blight who also relies on debris to loop and Wesker. they're likely targeted balance changes for top-tier killers.
Trickster and Deathslinger are simply caught in cross-fire. Deathslinger has not been in the same since his changes and Trickster has been underwhelming killer since his debut.
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@nars said:
increase chainsaw speed+yellow chili basekit done
incoming bubba complaints+otz upgrading bubba to A-tier in next tier list. I think bubba does take skill to play. that is why his kill-rates were some of the worst in the top 5% list posted last year.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488276#Comment_3488276
I want to chase and I want to be chased. Whether or not I escape idrc, should come down to how well both sides played, separate story from how fun or boring the match is. I literally have always heard agreement in the opinion that chases are obviously what makes dbd fun for everyone, up until hnr is brought up, weird
but long chases for killer is losing the game. you see the problem? stealth killers also have no chase capacity. their entire gimmick is hit & run. the maps are also imbalanced for chases for m1 killers so there is even a greater incentive to hit & run for a big portion of killer cast. in any case, I think hit & run should be legit strategy if the killer invests perk slots to make a legit strategy to play on. survivors can use perks to make it less effective if they so choose too but those perks have all been nerfed because they were over-used and deemed too powerful.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488249#Comment_3488249
First of all, the old ruin undying meta was the healthiest the metagame has ever been in. Because it required killers to actually pressure survivors to get the benefit, and wasn't passively earned. Meaning that good survivors could still waste a killer's time.
Secondly the whole point is to rework the system so that hexes get weaker as the match goes on to prevent RNG on BOTH sides. How many situations have you been in as a survivor where you can't find the totem no matter what you do? Similarly, how often have you been a killer and had survivors literally spawn on your hex and cleanse it before you could physically walk to that part of the map.
The RNG suc0ks for both sides. But it was merely a suggestion. The point of this thread is the devour hope will be the next one that survivors complain about, and if you literally scroll through you can actually see people trying to make that case that it is OP. Which is proving my point more.
Because it required killers to actually pressure survivors to get the benefit, and wasn't passively earned. Meaning that good survivors could still waste a killer's time.
i don't remember that. all I remember is survivors mains saying that it was passive regression that took no skill to use. as a result, they nerfed undying.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
And how exactly do you intend on removing Hit and Run? The obvious answer to "fixing" Hit and Run is by making stealth Killers have a more reliable power to use in chase. You could punish Killers for leaving a chase but that idea is fundamentally flawed to begin with, that would just be awful for Killers, especially when on certain loops you can walk to remove chase anyways, it would just set up the game for absolute disaster.
Realistically, Hit and Run is based on the idea of catching players off guard, and it makes up for the weaker areas of a Killer's power, mainly filling in for their weak chase potential. If you put yourself in a good position and are alert, than Hit and Run does nothing. The pressure for Hit and Run is not really the best either, since it takes awhile to actually get a down even when doing Hit and Run effectively.
So who are the people who actually suffer against this playstyle? New players or less experienced players of course, they dont have the tools or knowledge to be able to deal with Hit and Run. But cant that be said about almost everything else? New players or less experienced players suffer to a lot of things, it's why the Killrates for low MMR are so high compared to other MMR ranges, but I dont think it is insanely necessary to change an entire playstyle just because of new players or less experienced players.
old circle of healing punished hit & run and old med-kits. he's complaining about the common anti-heal with sloppy butcher that some killer players are enforcing as healthy design.
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@1ettuce said:
Chase is the most fun part of dbd by far. Not a hot take until hit and run is brought up, interestingly enough. Hit and run is literally just the playstyle of injuring someone (hitting) and dropping chase to look for someone else (running). Usually done by a stealth killer who can get a first hit very easily, or legion, who can also get a first hit very easily. Specifically when done on stealth killers, the playstyle doesn't involve much chasing whatsoever. Just sneak up on someone, get an easy hit, leave, come back to them later while they're injured, do the same thing and get an easy down. It's the playstyle of not chasing, the playstyle of....not fun.
The only reason the people using this playstyle wouldn't immediately drop chase is if they could get a follow up hit quickly, as to say, people using this playstyle only commit to chases when it'll take them the least effort. This whole thing really doesn't take any skill or effort whatsoever, it literally only involves getting hits when they come to you, as opposed to actually having to work for them. It's lazy.
As if that wasn't enough, this playstyle is best and basically only useful for pubstomping. How are you gonna stop a killer from sneaking up on you while injured and getting an easy down? By healing. How are you gonna heal? Either by finding a teammate or using an item/perk. So you're basically either forced to bring a specific tool or play in a swf to reaslitically deal with this, because I guess solos didn't have enough crap to deal with? There's no easy way to find teammates to get healed in solo, so you either have to waste potentially a ridiculously long time trying to find a teammate, or accept that if the killer comes to your gen before you finish it, they will down you.
Remember, solos have to deal with this boring nonsense all because the killer takes on a strategy that doesn't take any skill. There's nothing you can actually reliably do about this. As long as the killer uses LOS blockers, you're just gonna get hit, there's hardly much higher of a skill ceiling to it because you can't see the killer from behind a wall. So we have a playstyle that takes no skill, is boring, and disproportionately impacts solos, why in the world do people like this? Counterarguments below, spoilered to make this post more compact :)
"It's scary, brings the horror back to dbd" No it's not, I mean, maybe for you, but be realistic. You find out who the killer is. you know they're gonna be stealthing, so you're just looking around you expecting the killer to show up. If you have any sense of awareness whatsoever, I don't see how it's scary. Personally, I'm just looking at the locations I can expect the killer to come from, and I'm not surprised or scared in the slightest when they show up. Not to mention, wraith and legion have very obvious sound cues before they get in your face, so they're even less scary.
"It takes skill" Can we be serious? No it doesn't. All you have to do with this is sneak up on survivors with LOS blockers as a stealth killer, get an easy hit since, you know, they literally had no way to know you were coming, and they literally just go somewhere else if you're a decent looper beyond that. I'm sorry but that doesn't represent skill in any universe, just taking the easy route every chance you get. Remember how wraith and legion are considered the easiest killers, because they are, because hit and run isn't hard.
"Like running in circles around a pallet is any fun" I begin to notice a pattern of dishonesty among defenders of hit and run defenders. Are we really gonna pretend this is all that happens in chase? Sure it's part of it, but there's also mindgames, respects, greeding, getting momentum for fast vaults, red stain mindgames, etc. a chase power if your killer is designed well enough to have one. Unfortunately not all of them have such a luxury, so they really are just forced into hit and run, it's a shame and it shouldn't be that way.
"Everything is OP vs solos" Yeah, and this isn't helping. There's a difference between something being more effective vs solos just because you're against solos and something that itself becomes stronger vs solos. Remember old eruption? There was something very obvious making that stronger vs solos, and it's the same here.
"(Anything that assumes I'm annoyed with the players themselves, or that I'm entitled enough to think I can say how other people should play the game, or something like that, typically something like 'what do you want the killer to do, chase you all game and lose 5 gens')" Dude, I do not care how you play the game, I care what BHVR chooses to encourage and what to discourage. I recognize hit and run is often a necessity because of killers without a chase power, maps, etc. Point is it shouldn't be like that. Maps should be fixed, I don't think anyones disagreeing with that, unless hit and run defenders are that dishonest?
"So killers can't camp, tunnel, 3 gen, slug, and now they can't hit and run? What are they supposed to do?" Depending on what's meant by that question, the answer is similar to the last one. If you mean what is the killer supposed to do as in, in the current state of dbd, I still don't care. Play how you want, jeez. If you mean how should killers be encouraged to play, that would be to chase!
"Survivors will never be satisfied until killers are unable to move and generators get completed in 5 seconds (or some nonsense like that)" Worst kinds of comments....generic and unconstructive, hoping I won't actually be expected to respond to anything like this
Please BHVR, buff solos to give them easier access to heal each other (altruism, another thing that's good for the game! im sure this is another take that only heats up when discussing hit and run), and make maps less crap and nerf some exhaustions so killers have the option of commiting to chases, because I can't even blame a sadako (for example) for turning to hit and run when she literally has no chase power in a state of dbd like this. I especially and definitely can't blame a legion, because their whole power was straight up designed to be like that for some reason.... Encourage chases! Please!
there used to be a perk to counter this. it used to be called spine chill. it was recently changed in 6.1.0 and there is another change coming in Nicolas cage chapter.
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where do you even begin?
Vigil: Increases recovery from 20/25/30% ->40/45/50%
Killer:
Deathbound: changed trigger condition from fully healing a complete health-state to fully completing a healing action. trigger radius reduced from 32-> 24 meters. When the perk is activated, both survivors are inflicted by the oblivious status effect for 60 seconds.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487685#Comment_3487685
As mentioned previously, that is literally the definition of how hex perks should work. Hexes, in theory, are supposed to be high risk high reward. Because yeah, devour is powerful, but it also can get cleansed 30 seconds into the match. The problem is that most hex perks are terrible now, such that, the only really good ones left are devour, pentimento, haunted ground, undying, and MAYBE plaything. But the reality is that haunted ground, pentimento, and plaything are based around survivors cleansing the totems. Which the only hex perk worth cleansing is devour.
I actually don't disagree with you in principle on hex perks. I personally think they should rework the entire hex system to be less frontloaded and RNG based. Basically i would do this personally:
- Whenever a Hex perk is in play, all dull totems become lit and become hex totems
- Rework all Hex perks to have their power scale with the number of totems remaining. For example
- Hex Ruin: Regresses gens at:
- 5 totems: 200%
- 4 totems: 175%
- 3 totems: 150%
- 2 totems: 125%
- 1 totem: 100%
- 0 totems: gone
- Hex Devour hope: Cleansing a totem, reduces the number of stacks on devour by 1
- Hex Ruin: Regresses gens at:
- When multiple hexes are in play, they are all affected by the same totems, so if you had say devour and ruin, cleansing 1 totem would weaken each one.
Then they rework some of the other perks like haunted ground, plaything, pentimento etc. to do different things or set them up to work in this new system. My personal favorite is that Hex: Undying actually becomes Hex: UNDYING in the sense that, it makes it so your totem always acts as if it has 1 totem remaining even if all totems are cleansed.
These are just numbers examples off the top of my head and i'm sure it would all need tweaking. But the general gist is to normalize hex perks a bit, for both sides too. As mentioned in this thread, it sucks when RNG makes it so you can't find that 1 totem. But in this case, if there are 5 totems that are lit, you'll have more opportunities to cleanse the totems meaning that the hex will get progressively weaker until maybe you can just ignore the perk entirely, or it becomes less of a concern for you. For example, in my example of devour, really you probably only need to cleanse 2 or 3 totems before it doesn't matter because by then they will have already hooked everyone enough times and can't gain any more stacks anyway.
Food for thought.
old dying used to bounce totems meaning you had to potentially cleanse all 5 totems. survivors said it was overpowered so ruin undying got nerfed. that idea has already been tried.
the modern design of hex totems that works similarly to hex:undying is hex:plaything. you hook 1 survivor and 1 totem appears. you get slowdown by survivors cleansing 4 potencial totems. the only problem is that most hexes have a weak effect so survivor just ignore them. devour hope is one of only perks where its effect is strong enough for survivors to cleanse but that is possible to gen-rush through.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488210#Comment_3488210
There's a difference between someone like Demo needing Barb's Glasses which is Yellow and SM needing two Purple's to have mediocre-bad anti-loop
the difference is that demo is overall weak at the chase even with barbed glasses. it is placebo add-on but he has nothing better to use disregarding lepros lichen. skull merchant is substantially better with add-on's for chasing but has lack luster base-kit like 90% of the killers in the game. The difference is that she can redeem her kit while other killer have nothing to redeem. the other killers are just plain bad vs good survivors. they just have no ways to counter-play proper shift-w play. Demo included. they need buffs but nobody cares because they just play top-tier anti-shift w character like Blight, Wesker etc.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487817#Comment_3487817
Still though it's weird, it's not exactly like recharge + 3 blink was very balanced, and now you get it with one addon, it's quite silly
the add-on used to have a drawback where it remove your ability to blink through walls. I remember tru3 trying the add-on and he said it is worst designed add-on ever. they changed it so that add-on is more usable.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488171#Comment_3488171
Clearly, you haven't seen me play Knight lol.
SM is a worse Clown because her speed boost is conditional, her slowdown is conditional on the Survivor staying in a loop and is conditional upon a PURPLE add-on.
you would think that by looking at numbers but no. from my experience, skull merchant is better after post-ptb changes. her speed boosts are not less conditional and they last much longer. She does rely on 3 gens but only against 0.1% of survivors. I have already looped good knights and I know how knight plays because I play killer. A lot of killer rely on add-on to be effective good teams though many survivor will just call them killer crutches.
@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488171#Comment_3488171
Even looping an M1 killer takes more skill than anything Skull Merchant can do. A lot of y'all really under estimate the amount of skill survivor takes. Even a macro strategy against M1 killers like Legion takes knowledge and game sense especially in solo queue.
subjective opinion. Legion macro strategies. You mean looking at deep wound UI and holding-w vs against legion power. such a difficult macro strategy to learn. spreading out and doing gens. sounds like a tough strategy.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488151#Comment_3488151
Skull Merchant’s current chase power does promote 3 gens and honestly takes extremely little skill. A survivor hacks a drone, she knows where they are, and then you get free Dissolution in that chase while also still able to defend those gens with ease. Nothing about this gameplay is interesting.
I am not saying it does not promote 3 gens. I am saying the killer has chase potencial with add-on's. if you want to talk about very little skill. Looping weak m1 killer as survivor.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488151#Comment_3488151
lol.
Here's Skull Merchant's chase power.
Put Drone at loop.
Wait for Drone to activate.
Survivor leaves loop.
Repeat until you catch up and get a hit.
Repeat until down.
OR
Put Drone at loop.
Wait for Drone to activate.
Survivor doesn't leave loop.
They die.
That's it. It's just a worse version of Knight. Knight plays the same way but his Guards have some versatility. You can waste time, get hits, interrupt healing, snipe people, kick them off of gens etc etc all from across the map.
If not, he plays the same way, except better because you have a second Killer chasing Survivors.
Put Guard in loop.
Survivors must leave loop.
Get hit.
Repeat until down.
OR
Put Guard in loop.
Survivor doesn't leave loop.
They die.
this is way too oversimplified of playing killer. the skill in looping knight is knowing how to shift-w guards. I know that sounds weird to say that there is skill in how to shift-w but there is large difference between a skilled survivor shift-w at correct time and doing in the correct area's vs randomly doing it without rhyme or reason. Your over simplifying knight's skill-ceiling and survivor's gameplay towards him. Needlessly to say, The knight is weak killer when you are good looping as survivor.
Oversimplification applies to skull merchant as well. I would rate skull merchant as "Clown" but better. her skill-cap in the chase with add-on is knowing how to use the bursts of speed to get hits. it is similar skill-cap to clown, except clown is weak while skull merchant is rewarding.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488114#Comment_3488114
Well I should hope the Devs aren't like me, I didn't go to school for game design.
Since you insist upon it, I shall oblige.
Skull Merchant's design is completely untenable. Without her 3-gen, she's a worse version of Knight, who is himself a worse Artist. With her 3-gen, she's the most unhealthy Killer the game has ever had. A Killer that can hold lobbies hostage for an hour is NOT a good design. The worst part of it is, no matter what you buff on her, her 3-gen gets stronger.
This feedback was given IMMEDIATELY on the PTB and BHVR made it worse coming out of the PTB.
To top it off, her sound design is pretty bad. Her music is just Ghostface Washing Machine 2.0, her visual design looks like an Apex Legends character and her lore is...disappointing, to say the least. Couple all of that with the DM mains and you've managed to make a Killer more hated than OG Legion.
She needs to be scrapped and completely reworked ala Freddy. She needs an entirely new kit and considering the damage she is doing to the game, she should be killswitched or removed until that rework is ready.
You are allowed to like a Killer with bad and problematic design. I like Legion, I enjoy playing Legion. I also don't excuse his design issues, but they aren't on the same level as Dull Merchant literally being able to hold people in matches AND that's pretty much her only remotely viable playstyle. She's the only Killer who can do that and she certainly attracts...a type of player, not all of them are bad, of course, but a lot of them are unpleasant.
this sounds like major misinformation. skull merchant is a decent chasing killer. she is not worse then knight. knight is inefficient chasing killer that relies on zoning and is easily countered by shift-w play. Skull merchant has chase potencial in her current design and does not rely on 3 gens. Like all killers, she is stronger when she 3 gens. The changes post-ptb improved her chase extensively. She is not a a nurse-level chaser but she can hold her own especially with add-on's. your 3 gen complaints on skull merchant are like complaining that bubba is good at facecamping hooks. 3 gen and facecamping hooks are part of the game but they are not everything the killer can do.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488083#Comment_3488083
Wraith has some form of a warning before he smacks you (but he's still very strong in this current meta) and Blight is literally the strongest Killer in the game. Healing would be REQUIRED and considering how self-healing is almost non-viable and team healing is pretty risky, this is a horrid suggestion.
With your suggestions, Blight would be moving at 260% ms and Wraith at 180% ms without any add-ons. With add-ons Wraith would move almost 200% ms and Blight would be chilling at 300% ms on his final Rush.
This suggestion does not work.
bloodlust does not work when you use your ability. i am talking about bloodlust for m1 killers. you seem opposed to BL3 but you said bloodlust 1 is fine. this is just a throw away idea. I think bloodlust 3 is neccassary in case there are infinity loops in a map though I doubt that current version is ever used for infinities. if anything the infinity window loops and god pallets counter bloodlust. not the other way around. I use BL1 and sometimes use BL2/BL3 for free hits/tunneling purposes. Most of survivor are not good loopers so you do not really hit higher tier of bloodlust unless your opponent is a spectacular looper.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488081#Comment_3488081
It's been a month since his release (June 13th 2023). If people need over a month to get good with the killer, then that killer requires being a pro.
what is so hard about him? he puts pod then look at it, goes into camera, shoots camera then press his arm at the survivor to get teleport's. It is a lot of steps but none of the steps are particular hard or challenging to be successful at.
You also have a small period of faster vaulting, pallet breaking, and spirit fury + enduring, but the window is so short it can often not matter with the distance survivors start from you after the teleport.
I think it just comes down to his teleport+overclock being too weak. only two of his add-on improve overclock and every add-on is some strange bonus that does practically nothing of value. I am not entirely sure what they could do to improve him. I wonder if he would be any better if he had faster lunge velocity to lunge into pallets quicker. like 30% lunge velocity. Would that make him too strong? either way I have only played vs singularity twice since PTB. fairly unpopular killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488003#Comment_3488003
It shouldn't be instant death, especially not with how bad healing is.
wraith and blight both have huge speed that they can use before the chase. wraith is labeled as not strong and blight is loved by killer players for his ability to counter shift-w before chase and use his mobility in chase to get downs. you make sound these killer's are busted with how you describe the mechanic.
Healing still looks pretty rewarding. it is just difficult to heal in a lot of cases in my opinion.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487891#Comment_3487891
The “yoyoing” strategy needs to be nerfed as part of the 3-gen solution. The 3-gen problem is an issue for both sides of the game, and both sides should be nerfed as part of the solution.
We shouldn’t be seeing the 3-gen problem as “100% the killers fault”, when survivors are absolutely part of the problem too.
The survivors trying to complete their objective to escape when the killer is camping their objective is somehow the survivor's fault? that is a confusing take.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487996#Comment_3487996
Because moving 130% guarantees an easy first hit on every Killer. It makes being injured at all a death sentence.
That's insanely busted.
shouldn't being injured be scary?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487983#Comment_3487983
That would be bad.
why? Killer with low map traversal could traverse the map easier.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487953#Comment_3487953
I'd be more or less okay with that. I don't know how much those two tiers are actually helping lower-skilled players with bad map design, even.
Still, here I'm arguing more for the concept of Bloodlust rather than its absolute numbers and implementation.
what if bloodlust worked in reverse way. you start as bloodlust 3 when outside of a chase and bloodlust decays every 5 second when entering a chase.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Hoarder got changed in the 7.0.0 - End Transmission chapter patch, even if its effects were rendered negligible towards certain items.
Coup de Grace got changed in the 7.1.0 - Nicholas Cage mid-chapter patch, where it received a massive buff that allowed it to gain up to 10 tokens maximum in the Trial, with 2 tokens gained every Generator popped.
That leaves Oppression, which is not getting any love as far as we know. This perk should get love, and it really needs a change that allows for it to be used in a manner that can work with other perks and keep itself in line with its intended design.
As I always post, this is what I think this love should be:
Oppression
After performing the damage generator action on a Generator, Oppression activates and three additional Generators will start to regress at 150% the normal regression speed.
- If a Survivor is currently working on an affected Generator when Oppression is activated, that Survivor will receive a difficult Skill Check.
- The Generator you damaged becomes blocked by The Entity for the next 20 seconds.
Oppression has a cooldown of 80/70/60 seconds.
This levels the playing field for Oppression, giving it effects that justify it having such a lengthy cooldown while also shortening the cooldown to healthier levels to allow it to activate more.
This also makes the Perk a relatively strong slowdown and regression perk on its own, allowing the Killer to have more time to win the match by keeping crucial generators from being completed by Survivors through the Entity Blocker.
And for the Survivors that are worried about the additional regression speed, don't. It can't stack with the likes of Overcharge and Call of Brine, nor does the initially damaged Generator get dealt the regression bonus.
coup de Grace got changed in the 7.1.0 - Nicholas Cage mid-chapter patch, where it received a massive buff that allowed it to gain up to 10 tokens maximum in the Trial, with 2 tokens gained every Generator popped.
that is wrong. you can still only hold 5 stacks. they only increased the amount of stacks gained for losing a generator from 1->2.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487646#Comment_3487646
It doesn’t matter if it’s the “smart survivor play”. Defending a 3-gen is the “smart killer play”. So why should a 3-gen solution be 100% nerfs on the killer, when the problem is caused by both sides?
Because if BHVR’s solution is just to move the generators farther apart, then the survivor tactic of pre-leaving generators, and excessively avoiding the killer, will be an auto win against some killers and some killer builds. I’ve had people complain about a “3-gen” when the 3 generators were very far apart, but they were still close enough that I could defend them a very long time when all the survivors pre-leaved the generators super early and therefore really didn’t get much repair time. Because really, that is what some people mean by “3-gen”, where it’s possible at all to defend the generators, and some people just want the generators so absurdly far apart that it’s an auto-loss for the killer of the survivors excessively hide at the first sign of a terror radius.
they were still close enough that I could defend them a very long time when all the survivors pre-leaved the generators super early and therefore really didn’t get much repair time.
your suppose to repair generators as the killer walks away to kick gens. i think that is why otz calls it yoyoing because your yoyoing the killer to kick gens and slowly chipping away at the gen until you complete it.
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disabled at 5 gens. you want to nerf the perk further? it has like 0.3% pick-rate or something. blood rush is not harming anyone. the legit only way to use the perk without med-kit syringe is to run it with adrenaline to proc it in the end game using sprint burst perk. I find it funny that your weakening the one place where the perk is likely to provide value for the survivor using it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487539#Comment_3487539
I'm complaining about both.
1) I'm complaining that some survivors are excessively hiding, so the killer doesn't find anyone when they get to a generator.
2) I'm complaining that some survivors, instead of hiding near a generator, will just shift-w far away at the first sight of a terror radius symbol, which still results in the killer not finding anyone when they get to a generator. And the survivor is so far away that it's not worth trying to search for them.
And it's a double standard that it's ok when survivors want basekit help for things like 3-gen, but it's not ok if killers want basekit help for things like 3-gen. It's a major problem when survivors excessively avoid the killer, just like how it's a problem when killers excessively avoid some of the survivors (which is what camping and tunneling is). The game should be pushed into a more chase-oriented game, which can only happen if killers AND survivors are both pushed into more chases.
shift-w away from generators when the killer is coming is smart survivor play. haste is the mechanic to counter it but killer have no consistently good haste perks. as a result the strategy has no real counter if your not a top-tier high mobility killer that can use their mobility in the chase.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah not sure in what world it needed a longer cooldown. They could literally remove the cooldown entirely and it’s still complete trash and ran by no one. It’s just bad design.
Needs to be dumped for something else entirely.
Most the new buffed perks are still very bad for that matter.
to me, most of perk changes are often changes for sake of changing it. they have already changed this perk at least two times and this is their third change. the perk is still crap. The only way I see killer running this is if the following changes are made:
->Removal of cooldown
->Removal of range restriction limit
->Removal of aura reading duration.
The perk should reading something like this:
"Unlocks the potencial in aura reading ability.
Survivors within proximity of the basement have their aura revealed in 16/20/24 meter radius."
Anything else than that and you are unlikely for anyone to ever run it in a serious build. this pretty much makes shack a more risky loop to run instead of super safe zone that wastes killer time for free. Likely means you will get rid of pallet quickly and nullify the window with ease. Some killer players specific run bamboozle just to do that.
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@WiseTraveler said:
You could argue that you could spread condemnation by slugging tape holder over and over now that taking the health states of tape holders give them a stack. This then makes me want to ask you, what was the point of all these changes if I can do the same thing with the current Onyro with wring drawing? This only limits her to slugging which I thought that wasn't fun for survivors so I don't know pick your poison.
it is also not practical to slug because it takes at least 7 downs to curse condemn someone that hog tape. both hooking and slugging are equally irrelevant now because you'll die to hooking or regular slugging before condemn curse does anything. so the condemn mechanic is pointless disregarding TV teleport nerfs on cooldown tv+individual cooldown, iri tape nerfs and chase nerfs.
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I think it is more because pyramid head has no counter-play towards hold-w. Wesker has counter-play toward hold-w. Wesker does not need to tunnel but can tunnel very easily. Pyramid head is forced tunneling to be effective. I find him boring to play so I do not play him.
@Blueberry said:
His power is too easy to dodge and you get relegated to getting most your hits with it only when they are locked in animation in a lose/lose scenario basically. That's boring and predictable game play.
His ranged attack in locked animations should be nerfed in some way while simultaneously rewarding him more for hitting his ranged attacks by predicting survivor movement.
They should've given him the Torment on ranged hit back as well.
Think of it like playing Wesker except less skill expression and your only hits with his dash are at locked animation windows and pallets.
his gameplay is too binary. I agree with your analysis.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487500#Comment_3487500
That perk just makes people run even farther away, and still results in a slow 3-gen game. The difference is that BHVR wants to give survivors help in this situation, but I haven't heard them mentioning any help for killers...... which means survivors can just excessively hide and profit from whatever anti 3-gen mechanic BHVR adds to the game.
your complaint is unclear. your not complaining about not being able to find survivors. your complaining about survivors holding shift-w away from you and effective yoyoing survivor tactics. you can fix that by playing high mobility killers that have strong mobility options though i am not sure how BVHR would improve this situation for m1 killers other than giving them permanent haste effects in the form of perks.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487455#Comment_3487455
Point 1 isn't what you think it is. You're talking about game latency, where the server validation sometimes makes a hit that looks bad on one of the player's screens. I'm talking about a bug that literally steals hits from the killer, as in the game forbids the killer from lunging, and it steals hits from the killer because the killer would have gotten the hit if the game had allowed them to lunge.
Killers don't usually complain about hidden survivors, because they just deal with it by camping, tunneling, and 3-gens. Why should a killer leave a hooked survivor to patrol the map, when there's a very real chance they might not find anyone, and the survivors might get a free unhook when the killer is away? It's too risky, because when survivors pre-leave generators and are hiding in random parts of the map, it's unrealistic to expect killers to find them.
right but camping, tunneling and 3 gen is still in the game. in your post, you complain about patroling gens and not finding anyone. Nowhere to hide is exactly that. you get aura reading for kicking gens to avoid hiding survivors. a counter to stealth. I personally don't have this problem but you seem to have this problem so the perk is right there for you fix your weaknesses.
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oh no, I am scared of any add-on update for killers. they seem to be generally very negative such as ringu changes.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487293#Comment_3487293
"no they don't. that is why they're not used. When they do. they will get used. see old COH."
No, they're not getting used because there are other over tuned perks that simply overshadow them and as I said before, the healing doesn't matter.
"this is relative to the killer. I think if killer is strong such as Blight, then staying injured does matter. It also varies to how well killer player capitalizes on survivors saying injured. relative statement."
That's an easy statement to make when you pick one of the small fraction of killers that is an exception. My point applies for like 95% of the killer roster. The maps are also so overwhelmingly safe you don't just have to play better than the survivor for being injured to matter, you have to play ridiculously better and he has to be making a lot of mistakes. This is why this all falls apart in higher mmr matches when it's good vs good players.
"your entitled to that opinion but I would say that power-ceiling for killer perk is to low. this is especially true has killer only have 4 perks where as survivor have 16 perks. The killer 4 perks should be very consistent and have high impact. I do not believe that this statement holds true for 90% of killer perks. even highest used perks fall under medium reward but consistent."
I agree the killer perk ceiling is too low as well. This is why the problem with killer and survivor perks is not the same.
Survivor perk problems are a few overtuned perks overshadowing the rest from being considered. A perk power ceiling that's too high.
Killer perk problems are that most their perks are literally just bad and they simply default to the best options there are, even though these options generally aren't great. A perk power ceiling that's too low.
Both sides do have tons of bad perks I would buff, simply speaking in generalities that the problems with both sides perks is a different one overall.
My point applies for like 95% of the killer roster. The maps are also so overwhelmingly safe you don't just have to play better than the survivor for being injured to matter, you have to play ridiculously better and he has to be making a lot of mistakes. This is why this all falls apart in higher mmr matches when it's good vs good players.
it goes to that other forum post that walks about "why bvhr does not buff weaker killers?" according to kill-stats, all the killer do fine. it is also that matchmaking is relatively lax because when it was strict, survivors dislike going against same top-tier killers over and over and the majority of killer cast was not worth playing for most killer players because the killer players find them too weak/unrewarding to play. Some killer player also dislike hard matches so that is side-note.
my conclusion is following:
Survivors refuse to improve killers and accept harder games. Instead harder games as survivor is more survivor becoming entitled and d/cing/dying on hook because X game is not going their way.
Alternatively, survivors also refuse to get nerfed in specific ways like maps so that more of the lackluster killer cast has an opportunity to win. The end result is stalemate. no killer buffs and no survivor negative changes to avoid any negative perceived unfun survivor gameplay loops.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487263#Comment_3487263
"survivors will use perks that win. they're not going to use perks that do not contribute much towards winning."
Obviously. That isn't my point. The point is that the perk power ceiling for survivor is too high, not that they shouldn't use the best perks.
"they're not worth it"
They're not worth it because they're too safe without healing so it isn't required and gens go fast enough that it doesn't matter. It is not because they don't heal enough.
"they're not worth using because setup is not worth it over running no perks."
Those setups save you more time than they took to set them up in the first place, so that isn't a real statement. They're not worth it because staying injured doesn't matter.
Those setups save you more time than they took to set them up in the first place, so that isn't a real statement.
no they don't. that is why they're not used. When they do. they will get used. see old COH.
They're not worth it because staying injured doesn't matter.
this is relative to the killer. I think if killer is strong such as Blight, then staying injured does matter. It also varies to how well killer player capitalizes on survivors saying injured. relative statement.
The point is that the perk power ceiling for survivor is too high
your entitled to that opinion but I would say that power-ceiling for killer perk is to low. this is especially true has killer only have 4 perks where as survivor have 16 perks. The killer 4 perks should be very consistent and have high impact. I do not believe that this statement holds true for 90% of killer perks. even highest used perks fall under medium reward but consistent.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487201#Comment_3487201
"healing perks are not very good now which is why opt to stay injured is popular now"
I disagree with this statement.
"like what perks?"
CoH (yes it's still extremely good, just not OP anymore), BK (yes it's still good), Desperate Measures, Inner Healing, Renewal, We'll Make It, and if healing was actually necessary in the game I would throw potentially a couple others.
The reason that so many of these "seem" (emphasis on the seem, not actually) bad is because survivors are so used to over tuned perks so it makes these look bad in comparison. However if you were to look at them from an objective level of balance, ie not comparatively, they look significantly better.
This is why so many survivor perks don't make it into the meta. It's not because all their perks are trash, it's because they have a few that are over tuned making the rest look bad in comparison. In order for a survivor perk to make it into the meta it has to be overtuned to compare with the others, it can't just be good. There are a lot of good but overshadowed perks.
"People were healing before and the map have not changed. gens have remained mostly unchanged as well disregarding 6.1.0."
They were healing before because it was way too easy and medkits were way over tuned.
a perk that does not completely heal you is not worth the perk slot imo. I would say Nickolas's cages plot twist perk is an ok healing perk maybe. we'll make it is ok because it restores health-states at a quick enough pace that if a killer is further then 45 meter away from hook and does not have mobility to return to the hook, you get to restore 1 health-state from your teammate without killer being able to interrupt it. The other healing perks do not feel good to use and make little to no difference in gameplay for survivor. that is why they are not used. they're not worth it. as a result, staying injured is the norm. inner healing(inner strength), renewal(Second wind) and COH require setup. they're not worth using because setup is not worth it over running no perks.
it's because they have a few that are over tuned making the rest look bad in comparison.
survivors will use perks that win. they're not going to use perks that do not contribute much towards winning.
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@Akumakaji said:
The way crouching hard counters his whip is so sad.
you can hit people during animation locks most of the time in my experience. it is weakness in rotating loops so don't expect him to be a huntress at loops.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487092#Comment_3487092
Console players don't get access to the PTB 🥲
just imagine sloppy red bar but slower.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487188#Comment_3487188
They didn't use them when they were effective, they used them when they were over tuned. There are still multiple good healing perks available anyway. They are still effective, they just look not effective when compared to how fast gens can go if they ignore being injured.
The problem isn't healing perks being bad, it's healing not being necessary because maps are too safe and gens go too fast.
There are still multiple good healing perks available anyway.
like what perks? the healing perks are not very good now which is why opt to stay injured is popular now. I don't want to say they're under-tuned, but they certainly not being used.
it's healing not being necessary because maps are too safe and gens go too fast.
People were healing before and the map have not changed. gens have remained mostly unchanged as well disregarding 6.1.0.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486744#Comment_3486744
"it is more often lack of coordination to heal/inability to heal for most players."
This could be changed with perk choices from the survivors but they choose not to since the maps are so ridiculously safe that it's generally considered better to them to just rush gens and they don't need to worry about being injured. If maps were not as ridiculously safe as they are and staying injured was way riskier they would actually commit to healing perks. So I would say it's absolutely a choice.
the healing perks that were viable were weakened. The two perks that were consistently good healing perks were circle of healing and old self-care+botany knowledge. survivors did use healing perks when they were effective. now they're not effective so their choice is staying injured.
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@nemimainC said:
Nemesis is a very fun killer. Low skill floor, high skill ceiling, the perfect killer. But he's not. Nemesis' addons are extremely lack-luster. None of them help him when he's at his strongest (which addons should do!) 4 of his addons help him reach T3- then do nothing. His zombies are inconsistent- so those addons are very risky to use. Licker tongue and purple parasite addon inflict quite useless status effects for a very insignificant amount of time. His vaccine/ case addons are limited in use- so using those do nothing after a certain time in a trial. He needs a complete addon pass (along with Executioner and Nightmare- but thats a different story for a different time.) I hope a dev sees and responds on the state of Nemesis. Hoping to hear there is plans for an addon pass- considering the tampering with some of them lately.
his serotonin injector grants him 15 seconds of undetectable after whipping a zombie. It is not exactly best undetectable because nemesis is extremely tall and very loud but it does allow you to often approach closer to the survivor when starting the chase. that is pretty consistent add-on. the other add-on that is consistent if you hit & run with it is iridescent umbrella badge. it grant you 60 second of exposed when someone uses a injector. there is only 4 injectors per trial but you can sometimes get a 1-2 exposed hits at the start of the trial to get an ok start. expose is decent effect and you will get to tier 3 very fast to immediately access his full ability if you are proficient at using his whip. he has two consistent add-on's and rest just classic dbd filler add-on's that do practically nothing.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486744#Comment_3486744
When you're at mid MMR, there's a very noticable amount of survivors who intentionally play injured to benefit from perks like resilience and made for this. At high MMR, those players become more common.
Now, these playstyles weren't uncommon before the healing nerfs but there were definitely fewer players voluntarily playing injured. I won't bore you with the math, but prior to the global healing nerf, self-care took around 45 seconds to go from injured to healthy. After the healing nerf, that number went up by about 23 seconds.
Throw on Sloppy for an extra 20%, and you're looking at around 90-something seconds. Throw on Pentimento for an extra 30%, and you're probably looking at 120 seconds to heal. I say probably because dbd math is weird, and difficult. It makes people avoid healing altogether when it's taking you a full solo generator repair to heal.
I agree but those player are often playing injured because it is too time-inefficient to heal. survivor do want to heal but they will not heal at cost of losing games. they will only heal when it makes sense to do so. as for sloppy butcher, sloppy butcher is an anti-healing perk so by the design name, it is suppose to discourage you from healing. self-healing is not suppose to be viable when an anti-heal perk is used otherwise what is the point of an anti-heal perk that is ineffective at anti-healing? right? altruistic healing is still viable if you are an efficient team under sloppy butcher but you need efficiency and coordinate to find people to heal and to heal at correct time. altruistic healing becomes ineffective when it takes longer then ~25 seconds to do. at that point, your better off just playing injured entire game. if you played ptb with 24 second healing, you'll understand how long healing like that takes from survivor POV.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482843#Comment_3482843
How about this:
we ramp up Pigs ambush movement speed a bit, delay her roar a little bit, so that it doesn't startle survivors before she even starts moving and here is the kicker: give her aura reading while charging her ambush, as you often have no idea about the actual situation and kinda move in blind. Yes, I know that aura reading as basekit would be really strong, but I think it would be OK with Pigs ambush, as its such an impractical power and has a lot of hoops to jump through, it would not a scratched Myers peek and sneak.
Amanda letter provides aura reading when crouched. the peeko play-style is an add-on. the main reason why pig players dislike using stealth is 96%(?) m/s for moving when crouched. it is significant decrease in m/s compare 115% that heavily punishes time efficiency for pig using her power. for that reason, player only use that add-on if they play a small indoor map like gideon or perhaps lery's.
for me personally, I don't need a roar sound to deduce when pig is starting the dash. I can approximate the start of her dash by noticing when she stands still in-chase. A change like hurts new/inexperienced player more then experienced players. As I stated in my post, you can predict how far pig can go before the dash starts so you know how far you to need to be for her to miss. Pig chase's kinda seems balanced around new players. It is similar to sadako invisibility in chase in my opinion.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486483#Comment_3486483
No I think it’s healthy when the game is designed in a way that forces them to heal. The only reason they can ignore healing when it’s not easy is because of how overly safe the games current design is with loops.
i highly doubt that playing injured is voluntary choice in most cases. it is more often lack of coordination to heal/inability to heal for most players.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Lots of you guys are quite literally missing the point of what I'm saying with Survivor body blocking, so I'll put it in one sentence you'll all still misinterpret:
The recently UNHOOKED SURVIVOR being the body blocker is the problem.
run stbfl. that perk you deemed too strong. problem solved.