Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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pop+eruption is really good. I think pop is weak by itself and eruption itself is weak but together, they make a decent combo. With pop getting a nerf, it is worse than before but it is still ok.
@VomitMommy said:
Sadly because of 3-gen feature it is way weaker just for the fact you can't combine it with Surge.
Eruption basically makes it gens have only 4 regression events, so it is very easy to block gens and it doesn't decrease progress by that much...
It's definitely valid of you combine it with nowhere to hide.
60% regression is not bad. for reference, pain res is 20% for 1 hook. so if you exhaust all regression events, it is like using pain res 3 times. Like i said in a previous post, any time a generator is complete and you didn't block it, your losing out of gen regression.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737586#Comment_3737586
That's true, and camping and tunneling should always be a threat of the game. Unhooking should be something you have to consider what the killer is doing before you do it. It has to contain an element of risk in order for the interaction to be meaningful.
The number of times I've seen a survivor unhook literally within 10 seconds, and it's basically a free invitation to tunnel. It's a bad decision, and if you try to remove camping/tunnelling completely, this becomes the default interaction... dumb because its free.
With tunnelling and camping still an option in the game, survivors have to play aroundwhat the killer is doing. When survivors are working efficiently they can really heavily punish camping and tunneling. A 50 seconds camp with a last minute save, and trying to tunnel through OTR/BT and Decisive Strike, followed by another 50s camp and OTR/BT again buys survivors a LOT of time. Good survivors will cost the killer at least 3, maybe even 4 generators over that time, and the better the tunneled the survivor is, can completely cost the killer the game vs. Splitting pressure.
It has to contain an element of risk in order for the interaction to be meaningful.
Isn't that entire issue? By making unhooking a risk, you are making the entire game about unhooking and cheesing unhooks for the killer rather than making the game about being good at chase, pressuring gens/kicking gens, going after different survivors etc. If you played any Chaos shuffle, You saw the game as bare-bones and the overwhelming popularity of proxy-camping and tunneling.
With tunnelling and camping still an option in the game, survivors have to play aroundwhat the killer is doing.
What do you mean by play around it? The killer that proxy-camp and tunnel strategically do so with intention. It is killer that decides how much tunneling or camping is taking place in a match. Not you as the survivor.
It's a bad decision, and if you try to remove camping/tunnelling completely, this becomes the default interaction... dumb because its free.
Sounds your opposed to having more chases as killer. Perhaps it takes too much skill to pressure the map and go for 10+ hooks. Proxy-camping and Tunneling is easier. The current base-kit tool-kit for killer gives crap rewards for pressuring the entire team and only rewards the killer for playing as direct as possible.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737577#Comment_3737577
I never said it is fun for Killer. I even said it is not about fun.
It is about having the best tools to win and stacking Slowdown massively helps to resolve skill issues. A bad player with stacked Slowdown can be better than they would be without it. Simple as that. And therefore you saw so many Freddys back then - easy to play Killer, massive Slowdown, even a really bad player could get decent results with him.
couldn't you say that about any perk? A bad player will do better in the chase with enduring/spirit fury/bamboozle then without it? The perks don't make the player good. The good player makes the tools look good. The players that played freddy made freddy's toolkit look good. Now you can get any 9000 hours killer to play freddy and that player won't make the killer look good. You can forget about bad players getting results with him.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737557#Comment_3737557
And where would the risk be in a perk that gives both, unhooker and unhooked a free hit, the unhooked 60 seconds 10% haste?
There is a reason BT got changed from the double protection.
The change surely buffed proxy camping and tunneling.
How is everyone surprised that tunneling is popular, Pikachu face? If one player is closer to death hook and difficulty of unhooked person is same difficulty as unhooker, Why wouldn't the killer go after the unhooked person? When the difficulty to end chase is higher for unhooked person, there is more of risk to tunneling.
@UndeddJester said:
I'm not really understanding a lot of the points raised here: -
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/416940/fixing-borrowed-time-idea
Saying BT is useless because the killer immediately hits the survivor off hook is untrue. You get a 165% speed boost plus the post hook 10% boost for 20s....how much do you need to make a tile?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737502#Comment_3737502
This would be broken, you can just run under the killers nose to trade for free with no penalty, even after the gates are powered.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737546#Comment_3737546
Borrowed Time is a great perk. There are no clues that it's in effect other than the speed remaining after 10s, which is hard to spot so even veteran killers fall for it. It's subtlety is where its power lies.
It allows you to be much more aggressive with unhooks, taking decisions and options you would otherwise be punished for. It gives you consistent value around unhooks because it greatly expands the options available to you via the safety net it provides.
To break that down more:
It works very well in the rush to the gate at end game, and getting an unhook with Borrowed Time is basically a guaranteed out for the unhooked player. This is one of the few reliable effects available off hook when the gates open. If the killer hasn't worked out BT is in effect yet, they can pursue the BT player to wait our the basekit endurance, which can lead to a free out for the whole team. Combined with Desperate Measures, it works great at coordinating an unhook at end game, and even during the trial this combo can allow you to make trades with a good chance of both of you getting away to a tile.
BT also allows you to take much riskier heals under hook because you can actually finish the heal before the endurance effect ends, meaning you can get both you and the unhook survivor back in the game sooner if the killer doesn't stop you, and if they do try to stop you, you haven't just given your teammate a death sentence.
Even if the killer doesn't tunnel the unhooker, the 10% haste helps the survivor get to another survivor/gen sooner, so if you trade and get chased yourself, your ally is getting back in the fray faster than they would do otherwise.
I'm not sure why everyone is treating BT like its bad. It's a solid perk, with a very good niche. It's not overpowered, and it's certainly not weak. It's got a good set of nuanced uses that you can exploit to get consistent value.
It's one of my favourite perks. In fact, the only reason I don't run it more is my teammates are often allergic to generators and will swarm for unhooks like moths to a flame... even if I am obviously in a better position/healthier state to unhook.
comments like that show that tunneling and proxy-camping will likely never change. Otz made a video about tunneling at point. Something clever that he said is that whatever dev do change in regards to tunneling will be controversial change.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737550#Comment_3737550
He was popular because he had his massive Slowdown and because he was so easy because of said Slowdown. Stacking Slowdown is always the easiest way to play Killer and that Freddy was able to use Perks AND Add Ons AND had a simple ability (placing Snares back then was basically reverse-Bloodlusting, because you could spam them and just make the Survivor slower) made him super-easy. That he would be more popular if they just add the Slowdown-Add Ons just proves it. It is not about fun, but about just being braindead easy.
My cat could have played him well.
you got that wrong. slowdown isn't fun for killer. it is necessity because 6 minutes game is barely a game. Freddy allowed you to play the game vs efficient teams. that is also why I miss old original thanatophobia as a perk. makes bad killers more viable.
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@Livion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737554#Comment_3737554
They're interesting ideas to balance the perk but I don't think that having both effects is that healthy for the game.
Still, the 60 second haste sounds reasonable
why? do you think hook trading is healthy gameplay? Is it fair for killers like Legion and Plague to injure everyone then camp a hook on first down? Shouldn't there be counters/risk's attached to each associated play?
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@SleepyLunatic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737548#Comment_3737548
how can you tunnel the unhooker? If the unhooker had bt as well, we could just go for the unhooked again.
what if unhooked person gets 10% extended haste for 60 seconds instead of 10 seconds? unhooker get endurance for 10. seconds. I think it would be good anti-tunnel perk and counter hook-trading/camping vs non-specialized camping killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736509#Comment_3736509
^ this.
After the Rework he was pretty popular, because he was so strong for so little effort. Now he is not strong anymore, but still requires no effort at all and is just boring.
You really, really have to like the character to play him, because Freddy offers nothing apart from being a iconic Horror character.
no. he was popular because one thing. He countered broken healing speed med-kits and he also softly countered gen-rushing if the player was good. I think he would be twice as popular if they just returned his swing chain and jump rope add-on's to the original -3% healing and action speed penalty per asleep survivor and 9% action speed penalty for repair/healing for individual asleep survivors. Even if his chase sucks, he would be miles more playable.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737051#Comment_3737051
It does affect normal chases though. The rev time is 2 seconds, so if you cancel more than 1 second worth of revving then you already can’t rev the chainsaw anymore. If you have any addon that increases the charge time then it’s even less forgiving.
If they want to weaken his camping (which I would not be opposed to), this is not the right way to do it.
i haven't been penalized with it. maybe it is because when i play bubba, i know exactly which chainsaws are going hit and which will not and i often know what pathing the surivivor will take if they're optimal looper to maximize my time waste which tells if a chase is bad or not. I think if your committing to your chainsaw and you know when to use it, it doesn't do anything.
the thing, i haven't seen survivors abuse lockers with this because… in theory, you can just rev →go into locker, rev, go into a locker and force tantrums when healthy.
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@Ewik42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737502#Comment_3737502
Nah I think this would cause more tunneling
idk, 20 second of BT bodyblocking sounds like it might protect the person being tunneled.
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do you know how long it takes to regress a gen from 90% to 0? 324 seconds. soloq can optimize gens. the big issue for soloq in term of gens is that looping away from teammates. there is no information for where to loop as survivor. bring killer to gens = poor gen efficiency.
adding more gens ends up nerfing killer gen regression because pain res hitting a 65 charge gen is less total progress being regressed then 90 charge gen. Kick gen regression perk become even more worthless because you can't kick anything the gen is completed. the fastest an action is, the less time and odds the killer has to interrupt it.
Surge is only AoE regression perk that might be slightly better but again, 8% of 65 is worse then 90.
Frankly if your letting gens regress from 90%→0, It is not soloq problem. it is skill issue.
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i'd just make it grant borrow time to person unhooking as well.
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@The_Yosh said:
In terms of "taking the game hostage", you can slug one, and if they come to pick up, kill them both. If they don't come to pick up, let them bleed out. The new perk that shows auras will also stop them from being able to drop/pickup items to stop crows.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736431#Comment_3736431
Ah yes, all the survivor nerfs from 6.1 onwards have most definitely been "biased in favor of survivors". I've played since 2016 and I cannot recall killer being easier. Playing Billy or Twins at the moment causes me to have to apologise in endgame chat because it is so disgustingly easy.
It would be great if people played both sides equally so we got rid of this "us vs them" mentality. A 2k is a draw, which means the game is balanced and MMR is working. Killers getting a 3k+ every game actually means the game isn't balanced. Not every game should be a 4k.
the post is talking about two survivors hiding for +10-20 minutes hiding. often by going into lockers or hiding behind some obscure rock/obstacle. you can't slug if you cannot find anyone and there is no way to start the EGC.
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@PreorderBonus said:
Almost every single killer has at least one janky mechanic or bug. For example:
- The Knight can't place a guard if there's even a pebble nearby.
- Blight has a double fatigue bug that's been happening for years now.
- Nurse's nauseating camera POV after blinking.
- Spirit's FOV can lose you games due to how it works.
- Slinger's harpoon sometimes hits a survivor but doesn't spear them; it just goes back.
- Victor can easily go out of bounds after leaping.
- Plague's projectile vomit can visually hit a survivor, play the contagion sound effect, and still not infect the survivor.
- Dredge can't select a locker to go to if one is behind the other.
- Xeno's whip can go through a standing survivor and not connect the hit.
- The Artist's crows aren't tied to the ground, so the slightest bump will make them go out of bounds, leaving some areas unhittable with the crows.
These are just the ones I experience constantly. They are so common that if a single BHVR employee even played the game, they would experience them, but here we are.
they probably do play the game but issue with bugs is finding ways to reproduce them reliably. if you can't figure how to reproduce, it is very difficult to fix bugs.
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so that is not how it works. there is two types of game-balancing in games.
The first one is called Upscale balancing and the other one is called Downscale balancing.
Downscale balancing is when you balance a character from their highest point. The goal is to make the ability/character as strong as possible then down-scale the character until the character's power-level reaches the tolerated power-level.
Upscale balancing is when you balance a character from their lowest estimated starting point. The goal is to make the ability/character purposely weak then slowly upscale the character until they reach acceptable level of strength.
you can argue that games that produce DLC tend to Downscale balance which is why a lot of DLC get nerfed. It is just normal part of game development. DBD tends upscale over downscale. Most things start off in dbd as very weak and get buffed to be relevant.
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pretty sure they'll eventually be showing BBQ and Nowhere to hide with perk icons. Discordance is another perk i could see as perk icon. Not a single killer perk can be hidden. disheartening.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736745#Comment_3736745
Still worth calling out, because she does in fact take skill, doesn't take away survivor skill, and doesn't really give much value out of her cheaper strategies against semi-competent survivors. It being hyperbole doesn't make it less wrong, either literally in terms of what's said, or in terms of what's meant.
Is it a ton of skill? Eh. It's a low skill floor, but not much lower than the average killer. A low skill floor isn't an inherently bad thing as long as the killer still has skill expression and counterplay, which Merchant does.
You'll down someone eventually with just bloodlust, there needs to be more than that before old Legion can be invoked. Not to necessarily defend the Artist-Knight-Merchant thing of zoning survivors away, it is kind of boring, but it's not that bad.
a lot of player discount M1 killer gameplay as "Not skill". Somehow, they liked compare this to repairing generators or something as survivor. M1 killer gameplay is very intricate in dbd. It is why a lot of player that are of the higher rank MMR don't really play M1 killers because of how intricate it is and how fragile making few mistakes makes you lose. At face value, it doesn't take genius to look at complaints and see how weak most of arguments are. it is pointless to address them.
@Eelanos said:
The skill expression being easier than other killers doesn't disprove that skill expression
existing.
I feel like this is a very weak defense, though?
We could have a killer that goes through walls at light speed and instantly sacrifices survivors on touch and you could still argue there's some semblance of skill expression in its kit by needing to know where survivors are and being able to quickly analyze at a glance what you're seeing at such a high speed so you can distinguish players from props in that quick blur of speed. It doesn't change the fact that there's not enough nuance when you can just ping-pong your character from map edge to map edge in hopes that you get a free kill.
Hardly ever you'd see something with literal 0 skill expression. That doesn't change the fact that Skull Merchant's kit does a lot of the heavy lifting for her.
the power only adds to her kit. The power doesn't do anything if you don't use tools correctly. Most killer powers do the heavy lifting…… when used correctly. Spirit's power grants large boost of speed but what matters is how you use the burst of speed to gain advantage. an incorrect use of burst of speed will not be effective if not used correctly.
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@YayC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735528#Comment_3735528
This is a terrible argument because even if it is the case, they should've done the basekit buffs at the same time. Right now playing killer is absolutely miserable and so is playing survivor because killers need to do more things to make up for the lack of pressure. The result is quad slowdown every match and way, way more slugging, tunnelling and proxy camping.
idk. if they nerf gen defence enough, player might complain that killer's map presence is trash and that the games are too fast. either way, i only run pain res/grim embrace for most of my killers, so it hasn't affect me that much. I don't really kick gens outside of 3 gens because it is not really worth it imo.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736579#Comment_3736579
the survivor cannot immediately Re drop the pallet when you lift it up again,
It is kinda buggy right now and there are times where survivor can actually drop it before you can attack as Vecna.
is it consistent?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736562#Comment_3736562
Maybe he suggest too many buffs but vecna is gonna be lot weaker after mage hand nerf. What they could do is to buff FOTD it's too easy to avoid and crouch. Mage hand had enough counters already expect the enduring stuff. Vecna has big cooldown on his spells so at least some of them could be bit reduced.
i don't want buffs or nerf's. I just wish he stayed the same.
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they need to make a hiding meta for survivor in late game for surviving as long as possible to fix it. that is only way they fixed 3 gen by creating a unhealthy meta. BVHR doesn't fix issues until issues become so apparent and complained about that they need to fix it.
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they don't need rework. they need re-balance scamper either by giving raw turning-rate, returning his flick or allowing him to change direction like billy for 0.5 second after a scamper.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736302#Comment_3736302
It is legit only good way to use the ability because the skeleton injure immediately as soon as they spawn.
I didn't want to say much about this ability but Hens put a video out so i might as well just say it now.
Yeah, I am watching it now. We have tested it and it's not really true it's impossible to dodge (some survivors did it in his video), simply because you have animation, so if survivor is looking at you, they can so you casting it. Right just most survivors, don't know it is possible.
I catched my friend on this first time on loop, but later on it was basically 50/50, if I use it or not, issue is next to standing pallet, if survivor crouch, then you won't get the hit (you can't attack after casting).
I still get annoyed it's just impossible to use properly at distance, why is there extra distance addon? Let me at least hit survivors on gen and healing, then I am happy with it… I would love to try to go for some long range snipes.
i think you can only use ranged capacity of this skill with iri add-on and green horn. if paired with undetectable perks, it can be used as sniping tool on generators. Fly+undetectable can be used as ambush tool and it counters that item that survivors see the aura when using fly.
We have tested it and it's not really true it's impossible to dodge (some survivors did it in his video)
well if it is used across walls, you won't react to the animation. Think about jungle gyms where you know proximity location of the survivor that they're near pallet. all they see is a skeleton instantly hit them. that is kinda how I have been playing him. a great example in hens video is Yui's play on 13:26 in the video where she sees him cast it but is unable to react to it.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736099#Comment_3736099
So did lot of testing with my friend:
Mage hand
If survivor is ready on pallet, they can drop it quite fast when they get on other side, so you have to be very close to them (that might actually improved when lifting up pallet is slower)Also if they start vaulting animation, then pallet will be lifted after it and they can drop it immediately (not sure if that's not a bug). I am not able to attack (after casting a spell) faster then they can drop the pallet.
Flight of the damned:
There is no way you can do it on reaction, so you definetly need to do it in advance.
I have tried to spawn them as soon I saw item disappear (survivor is going to vault) and on fast vault they can easily crouch.
Basically the range, where I was able to do it on reaction, I am able to just lunge attack instead…
Btw skeletons are not able to hit survivors working on gens and healing… Sorry, but that just shouldn't work. I would definetly want to be able surprise survivors with it. What is even the point of that range addon otherwise?What survivor can do is when they see you prepare skeletons, they can crouch and then vault. They are even able to medium vault, if I am too close to them (because they can start vaulting faster) and I am able to only watch…
So it is not that good even for this.
For skeletons, I would reduce delay before you can attack. It doesn't make sense for it to be so limited, when there are 2 counter plays.
Fly:
Completely useless for windows and pallets, because survivor is able to vault back and I am not able to attack.the current way to use flight of the damned in my opinion is to spawn skeletons on top of the survivor. It is legit only good way to use the ability because the skeleton injure immediately as soon as they spawn. You use the ability like Pinhead's gateway where you spawn it right on top of the survivor and they instant take damage. It is little bit like a better Pyramid head Punishment of the damned because you can use this when the survivor is in perfect animation lock such as vaulting a pallet or window. You just need correct spacing to use the ability.
I didn't want to say much about this ability but Hens put a video out so i might as well just say it now.
The thing about fly is that if a loop is long and survivor already commited far enough away from the pallet where loop is long enough, it can be used as chase tool. the counter-play of course is just camping the window/pallet and sliding over but something this isn't possible.
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@Jaredleto1234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736213#Comment_3736213
The amount of people who played Wesker, Chucky, and Alien would beg to differ. I played during release of the Alien chapter, 90% of my games were against her for a week straight. People absolutely did exactly what you claim they wouldn't. You could argue that Wesker was fun, sure, but he has always had a very high kill rate.
I would like to point out I was more talking about killer strength compared to what survivors get. I don't think the killer perks need to be good for people to buy the chapter, just the killer. Which is what they mainly target anyway, that being said killers tend to get at least one decent perk every time a killer comes out. Where survivors would be lucky to get one strong perk in a 6 month cycle. And even if that perk did end up being good, the amount of complaining on the forums usually get it nerfed before it even leaves the PTB.
The chances of a survivor pack coming with a strong perk is close to zero. Where the chances of the killer being strong or at least one perk being strong is nearly 100%.
The last survivor perk that they made which was good was Made For This. The perk didn't even last a year. I wonder if they'll ever revert or do something as it was good improvement for survivor in regards to tunneling.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735097#Comment_3735097
It is, many people have already figured out how to use Mage Hand, and how there isn't a lot of counterplay against it.
The nerf is going to happen, and that's a good thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Ni-mDlQQ
Go to 6:35 and see for yourself how even predropping the pallet with as much distance as Kate has in this video doesn't help against Mage Hand. What exactly was Kate supposed to do in this situation? The nerf to Mage Hand is going to make that ability at least a bit more manageable.
Look at 6:39 and how close he is to the pallet. 8:48 is how your suppose to counter-play the ability. this is one survivor that does counter-play correctly. you see how far he drops the pallet ahead and then makes back around loop. You have to calculate the distance needed to make back around loop preemptively. If Vecna had boot of speed add-on, he would need to drop it 1-2 second earlier which would be 8:46-8:47.
This is why mage hand does not need nerfs. survivor need to adapt and learn it is gameplay. the killer is new. the killer players already mastered how to use ability but survivor have yet to learn how to counter it.
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otz was right. Otz said that Vecna is going to be a killer that new players scream OP and nobody knows what they're talking about. who knew that he would be right.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735662#Comment_3735662
Idea is not bad, just your approach is terrible....
We talk about 1-3% changes for kick and 0.15 differences on regression rates. Which could be enough for many killers.
There is no need to use this for nerfs anyway.
The difference is that stronger killer have a chance to win while weaker killer get looped and lose.
So it seems like strong killers don't need major buffs....
all the killer universally need generator buffs. you can argue for some of the killer needing chase nerfs but that is about it.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735528#Comment_3735528
Doubt it. This is kinda impossible to change in major way exactly because of massive power level differences between killers. Nurse x Trapper
I kinda liked Scott's idea to create new killer specific parameter (kinda like TR, movement speed) that would affect kick and regression speed %.
Basically only flaw is that BHVR would need to be able determine how strong killer is...
one of the worst idea's ever. Let's make it so that weaker killer have to use Hex:Ruin+Surge because they have 300% regression to further pigeon hold them into gen defence. The stronger killer are just as susceptible to gen-rush as weaker killers. The difference is that stronger killer have a chance to win while weaker killer get looped and lose.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735520#Comment_3735520
The weather forecast is not a blind guess? Meteorologist measure certain data and base the forecast on that... A blind guess would be flipping a coin whether it will rain tomorrow or not... They take information into account which makes it basically the opposite of a blind guess.
However you don't have incomplete information, you have no information, because you cannot know whether or not the player will use his ability, you have no hints when it will happen, you can only randomly assume, which makes it by definition a blind guess. The killer being behind you and there being a tile... Wow that is indeed a lot of information and it will help you out a lot, at any given point while he is in range of you he can press the button and hit you, and there is no way for you to know when, there will be certain assumption as to when it is more likely or not, but at the end it is a complete blind guess.
your fine to believe that your blind guessing when you play vs Alien but your not going to convince me. His tail cast time is not 0. it is 0.2. The really good looper don't have trouble looping Xeno. The flame turrets are mostly there for swf to exploit and hand holding poor survivors. Killers have to waste add-on slots to avoid abuse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chw_cbqTC7cNaymeti is really good survivor player that did a video where he was looping Alien with no perks. To you, it looks like blind guessing but to the player, he is reading the game and winning mind games with the tail. You can't win all the mindgames so your still going to get hit and stuff but there is skill in looping the Alien for long time without relying on turret cheese.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735461#Comment_3735461
It’s not the same as last time. The new version will only activate when all other survivors are dead or in struggle phase on hook and THEN you have to down the last survivor.
i thought it was just that you get cypress mori offering base-kit when you down the final survivor in the trial. sounds like whatever change.
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well they're nerfing him. the funniest one is the base-kit Zanshin tactic radius reduced from 16 meters →14 meters. Confirmed that Zanshin tactic base-kit too strong for killer.
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Maybe they're going buff base gen defence. perhaps reason that they're weakening gen defence is for some room on base game changes.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734831#Comment_3734831
If you don't have any hint then it is a blind guess, that makes it not only unreliable but there is no skill component. It is like throwing dice, there is no skill component in ordinary dice throw or guess which number comes up when someone else throws them and that is quite literally the same thing here. You are not skillfully if you guess correctly in a game of pure luck.
When you are predicting something you have certain things you take into account for the prediction, for example the weather forecast. They still don't know for sure, but they have certain information that was taken into account, basically more than an educated guess. But when you have 0 information on the if and when of something then you blind guessing. I could stand in front of you and at some point during the next 10 seconds I will poke your nose, you have 0 information or tells when it will happen, is it now skilfull just because you guessed right based on nothing... You just got lucky.
Based on what your senses tell you... You know what your senses do? They take information into account they were given... So they use information and hints... Nice contradiction there.
Like you said, it is like weather forecast. the weather forecast is somewhat blind guess on what the weather is but there are weather models to predict particular patterns in atmosphere for what type of weather is likely to occur. You have similar pieces of information in dbd. There is a loop, a pallet in the middle and an Alien going around the loop. You have to use little pieces of information to predict the pattern for when the player uses tail attack.
Based on what your senses tell you... You know what your senses do? They take information into account they were given... So they use information and hints... Nice contradiction there.
Your correct but there is difference between complete information and incomplete information. The skill is using incomplete information to avoid the ability. That is how high skill 1vs1's should be in dbd. Survivor should not have complete information in the 1vs1. They should only have complete information in 4vs1.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734603#Comment_3734603
Yes predropping the pallet earlier would have been good at 3:16. The point of the video here is to show that there are too many situations where the survivor can't do anything against Mage Hand. If Vecna is already close enough to the survivor, he can just react to the survivor dropping the pallet and then use Mage Hand. That's the point. The size of the loop here plays no role in that case.
This is why it's good that Mage Hand is getting a small nerf.
there are no situations where survivor cannot do anything. the situations where the survivor gets hit immediately after mage hand activation are survivor mistakes in playing poorly vs mage hand.
I am not sure how much nerf will do but i do not think the nerf needed to happen. this is jump-start nerf before survivor has adapted to the ability.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734811#Comment_3734811
Because predicting an event that can appear at almost any given time while in range is such a great mechanic... That is just not a thing. When you are trying to predict something you need to have a tell or a hint or anything at all the gives you a chance to have more than a blind guess, and you don't have that in this case, which is why it is not reasonable to expect players to reliably do anything about the tail.
I don't think the turrets have something to do with the terrible addon design…many other killers also have garbage addons and no such mechanic.
If you have nothing that gives you a hint when the attack will come then there is no skill in not getting hit, if you don't get hit the Alien missed, you did not dodge.
when you have a tell, it is no longer a prediction. it is reaction. You just make right play based off what your senses tell you. predictions and guessing by nature are not 100% reliable. they're inherently meant to be unreliable. the skill component is being more consistently correct than the other player.
If you have nothing that gives you a hint when the attack will come then there is no skill in not getting hit, if you don't get hit the Alien missed, you did not dodge.
i do not agree and i am not going to argue. All i have to say is… some things never change.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734335#Comment_3734335
The turrets are basically the only counterplay the tail attack has... The windup is like 0.2 seconds which makes it impossible to reaction dodge the thing, if not for the turrets there would be not much to do to avoid getting hit.
as @Iron_Cutlass said, tail is not about reacting, it is about prediction. there is no need for turrets. it is just self-nerfing mechanic that eliminates add-on variety for Xeno. Thanks to this mechanic, Xeno's entire add-on list is also full of terrible add-on's. there is skill is not getting hit vs 0.2 charge time attacks but i am not going to go into this rabbit hole. i already went through that rabbithole with deathslinger.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734015#Comment_3734015
I don't think Trickster is 36… Considering the guy that ended Hens' last streak was a Trickster I would assume the guy is good enough to make it to 200 and above.
he got 150 wins or something. I am not surprised. trickster is really potent now if the player is really good. very difficult to loop for prologue period of time. i like playing vs all ranged killer so it doesn't bother me.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734335#Comment_3734335
Then what would be the point in playing Demo?
Their tail attack has less wind up and less warning (often requiring prediction to actually dodge), ignores pallets and windows, and can be hooked over loops. Their mobility is insanely fast and requires literally no set-up since it's already spawned on the map; likewise it cannot be removed either.
Removing the Flamers would quite literally provide no reason to play Demo since Xeno would be better in quite literally every aspect.
demo is another weak killer that needs a lot of buffs. There is no point in playing demo now and there won't be any point for long while.
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@ad19970 said:
I have been playing quite a bit of Vecna now and in general I think he is a fantasticly designed killer. I like all of his abilities and in many cases he is very fair as well.
However, Mage Hand is the one ability of Vecna that is a bit overtuned at the moment. The main problem with Mage Hand is that by simply waiting until the survivor drops the pallet, you can then activate Mage Hand immediately afterwards, and get a free hit in many situations.
Now, if the survivor has quite a bit of distance to Vecna, and reaches the pallet, things are less simple in that case. In those cases, survivors can engage in a mindgame whether Vecna will use his Mage Hand or not. However, these situations are quite infrequent, because the distance needed is quite a bit, often in a chase Vecna will be close enough to the survivor to be able to guarantee a free hit with Mage Hand.
Here is the big problem: In the ptb, Vecna was forced to predict whether the survivor would drop the pallet or not, in order to spend some of the slowdown during the pallet drop animation of the survivor. However, with the slowdown being lessened too much, Vecna doesn't have to predict whether the survivor will drop the pallet or not, he can simply react to the survivor dropping the pallet, and then use Mage Hand, still granting him a hit, because the slowdown he has to endure is so small. Or the survivor doesn't drop the pallet, and Vecna simply doesn't use Mage Hand. It's not a 50/50 anymore. So survivors have no counterplay in those situations, and these situations happen too frequently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65fPbz1f6lg&t=2s
This video of tru3 illustrates what I am talking about. Two examples are at 3:16 and 5:25.
The ideal solution would be to have Vecna be forced to predict whether the survivor will drop the pallet or not. This is achieved by increasing the slowdown enough so that Vecna wants to spend some of that slowdown during the pallet drop animation.
So with that said, Vecna needs these 3 changes:
- Decrease the movement speed during the Mage Hand post-casting cooldown from 3.68 m/s to 3.2 m/s
- Decrease the haste effect of the Boots of Speed Addon from 5% to 3%
- Decrease the haste effect of the interloper items from 7% to 5%
This way, survivors will actually be able to mindgame Mage Hand at pallets more frequently, and Vecna will have to mindgame at pallets as well, which would be ideal for a power. Of course, nerfing it back to how it was on ptb would be too much, so I think 3.2 m/s would be a good middle ground.
If Vecna received these changes, I think he would be an absolutely perfect killer, one of the best BHVR has ever created.
3:16 is unsafe loop. any killer will get m1 hit. the survivor should pre-drop pallet. there is no reason for survivor to be waiting this long.
5:29 is also poor distancing. You need to be around 5:27 in term of distancing for mage hand to not work. if you don't pre-drop pallet from this distance, you get hit.
this killer has no 50/50's when the pallet is not dropped, the killer is being able to react to pallet drops is not mindgame. Your either far enough away to make next loop or you not far enough away to make next loop. it is that cut dry.
3:18 is where he has to pre-drop pallet to be safe vs mage hand. it is around 2 killer lunges. when the pallet is dropped. Mindgames with this killer begin when pallet is dropped where killer has to predict when survivor will slide when both survivor go around loop. People are playing vs him completely wrong.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734424#Comment_3734424
I really don't think that perk is worth it unless you run Spies from the Shadows.
Issue is without Spies from the Shadows you can't even tell who got exhausted.yes you can. the cooldown says so. the issue with the perk is that someone maps have crows EVERYWHERE and some maps have like no crows at all. Make every map have 1 crow on every hook to improve consistency then this perk might be useful for like Nurse and Chucky disabling dead hard.
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I would like whispers to disable when a survivor is in dying state or hooked. I would use whispers as main stay perk in my builds.
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you wonder why so many games is killer stacking at minimum 2 slowdowns then something comes out as NOT slowdown and then suddenly that need a nerf.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I think Xenomorphs entire design is kind of just… bad.
Either the Flamers are too oppressive and Xenokitty gets nothing from it, or the Flamers are too weak and Xenokitty just gets an oppressive chase power with basically no downside. They could technically find a middle area but it's insanely difficult to actually reach that point and I dont think either side will really be satisfied with the end result.
I dont really like the design idea that, "Killer is stronk, but also item completely shuts them down," since it just leads to clunky gameplay from both sides, and it is something that will persist regardless of how strong or weak the Killer is.
flame turrets are unnecessary feature. this feature should be added for nurse or something.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
You need to tail attack the turrets, you shouldn’t be trying to m1 them in most cases.
Turrets are fine and imo both of those addons you mentioned are too powerful as they make the turrets far too easy to counter when combined.
turrets are ultra-broken. reduce the movement speed cooldown back to original so the killer has add-on variety without nerfing his tail.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I dont see any change of Builds. Seems like the Nerfs were not as severe if I see at least two of the nerfed Slowdown-Perks in every game.
because big majority of the killer perks have no effectiveness. gen speed is still ultra oppressive.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733522#Comment_3733522
Slinger definitely doesn’t require more skill than Huntress lmao. Only when it comes to aiming, that’s it.😂
that's entire killer….
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733280#Comment_3733280
There is absolutely no way he can shoot over 40m. He must've had an Undetectable perk or something.
His max range is 18m. There is no way to extend it.
you can use monitor&abuse on him. it allows him to get initial shots. the difference between 24 and 18 meter is very mild that a survivor can barely tell that they have been shot. Still, i don't think changes did anything.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733573#Comment_3733573
1% is kinda crap and you need a lot of them to make up for the cooldown.
it lasts for 90 second if you fully channel it.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733540#Comment_3733540
Half the dice rolls are bad its a meme build
you only need 5 or 8 skill-checks to positive. it is guaranteed value if you use build to last+toolbox as final perk but i am not using that.