Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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better to just buff numbers to like 20% every gen done.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
We do.
They tried it without the movespeed boost in testing and it was really unfun.
so why is he suddenly more fun with 3 health-states? Why don't we apply this logic to every single killer? Wouldn't every single killer be more fun for survivor with 3 health-states? Imagine nurse with 3 health-states with dead hard.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729317#Comment_3729317
I never said I'm against these specific addons getting toned down at all. I'm saying C33 is getting toned down too much to be useful by itself anymore, and it could do with a different effect perhaps.
Blight Tag will be fine after the nerf. C33 is a different story, though.
nurse tornbook and matchbox are not exactly balanced add-on's. Tornbook is 3 blinks at on 8-9 second cooldown. To put into perceptive, Chucky which is claimed to be free hits had 18 second cooldown. So nurse has 3 blinks, a free hit every 8 seconds which is deemed as balanced but chucky at 18 seconds is not balanced.
Tornbook add-on turns her into 4.4 m/s meaning you don't need to blink. If survivor drops a pallet, you blink and hit them. if they do not drop a pallet, you m1 hit them. it is like lose/lose.
good thing nobody runs these add-on's because they think they're bad.
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@Xernoton said:
Isn't that obvious? All killer abilities can be divided into 4 categories. Mobility, slowdown, anti loop and information.
Every killer has some kind of chase power / anti loop. In order for a high tier killer to not rely on any of the other 3, they would need to be so incredibly busted in loops, that they'd become insufferable to play against. We're talking Nurse's level of anti loop here.
Information is also a bit tricky because it can quickly turn into a chasing tool as well. So they always try to give the killer only a little information in their kit. Doctor for example reveals the survivors' location but only if they are in his TR, he uses Static Blast (60 seconds cooldown) and they don't go into a locker or use Calm Spirit (not a good perk but a possible counter).
Slowdown is also quite tricky. Too much and it allows the killer to simply camp one survivor or tunnel someone out of the game with pretty much no risk and too little and the killer needs to rely on the other 3. Legion is a great example of a killer that is based on slowdown. But because of that, Legion is also not very good in the second half of a chase, which makes them vulnerable to strong loops.
Mobility is something that is pretty easy to balance. As long as it's not completely unrestricted and doesn't lead to free hits it's fine and it allows them to put less power into the chase mechanic while still maintaining a high strength level. High mobility killers are also generally more versatile in the things they can do in a match. They can switch targets, if necessary, defend a larger area and are usually a bit more forgiving because they don't lose as much time traversing the map.
is mobility really that easy to balance? Billy has almost near uncontested mobility. He makes for great proxy camper… that is near global. His overdrive is so fast that he can sometimes charge at gen, miss right next to you and m1 you. break a pallet or do a curve and if he fails, patrol with his chainsaw until he gets overdrive and repeat this process over and over until he eventually finds someone out of position.
Mobility can also double as chase tool. Before blight got nerfed, his hug tech was literally using mobility as a chase loop tool. Made for great tunneler as shown by momo who got 2000 win-streak on blight by just tunneling and the one he doesn't. he gets burned by SWF.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729434#Comment_3729434
Yeah basically lol.
Survivors hate the "anti loop" killers but that's what they get when they wanted all the heavy slow down nerfed. Personally as killer or survivor I prefer killers with high map mobility and built in slow down. It gives the survivors their fun chases they want while as killer is doesn't cost you the whole game. I think those are healthier designs than the heavy anti loop killers. Unfortunately as I said before, they keep killers with these designs in pretty weak states. See Pig, see Onryo or removed forever freddy and removed 3 gen kick meta.
For how much survivors hate slow down in DBD, it's probably the healthiest and most enjoyable of the alternatives that you get other wise.
We've currently been leaning heavily in the anti loop killer design for quite a while now and I hope we go back into some more macro or stealth killer directions.
i have different opinion in regards game-delay. game-delay perks are suppose to be used as ways to plaster fix poor map presence killers.
the unfortunate reality is that the perks are being used to win more consistency on killers with good map presence with a high-tier chase. I don't think macro or stealth killer direction has been effective. I would like to see more killer go the route of exposed/1 hit down. More about speeding-up killing, Punishing poor play.
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@Blueberry said:
In order to have a killer be that good without map mobility their anti loop or base kit slow down would have to be so over the top that no one would be okay with it. That's why. Too much time is wasted with holding w on non mobility killers that they would have to save a ridiculous amount of time in other ways to make up for it. Just walking around the map wastes crazy amounts of time, hence why people try and 3 gen.
this is most obvious to slow killers right? You think a hag that moves 4.4 m/s and pauses the game every 2-3 second to place traps is going to be moving around the map? It is like nope, all you're getting is 3 gens and hook camping.
Anti-loop exaggeration is like Nurse or Chucky, you just get hard-tunneling because the killer is so effective at downing the survivor that you might as just target same person over and over. it is not like the survivor is going to "loop" you.
In term of exaggerated game-delay, Forever freddy was exaggerated game-delay. Old 3 gen skull merchant with COB/Overcharge/Oppression/Eruption was exaggerated game-delay. Exaggerated game-delay don't really exist anymore. They got nerfed out of the game. Closest thing you get to game-delay in dbd is pig's reverse bear traps which temporally remove 1 survivor creating 3vs1 for about 3-4 minutes of the match. There is only 4 traps so yeah.
Too much time is wasted with holding w on non mobility killers that they would have to save a ridiculous amount of time in other ways to make up for it.
Pre-running is main reason why none non-mobility killer are successful. The answer is that coordinate SWF can just pre-run for like 20-30 second on before single chase and split up and do gens. Killer that don't have good catch-up also get abused by health-state system and med-kits so just free time to rush gens.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729387#Comment_3729387
I have no idea and disagree with the devs solution tho, I think hug tech should not have been removed, it took depth out of blight. Blight needed his addons gutted not to be made dumber to play, and I say this as someone who lacks the skill to play blight. Same with chucky, taking away his flicks made him one of the most boring and shallow characters in the game. thats why I am against them doing the same to oni.
that is how i currently feel about blight. He's now one the most boring and shallow characters in the game. I do have to agree with @FrenchBagels on this particular line: "It’s as oppressive as old Top Knot.". I was against nerfing top knot because it would make every single Oni utilize "180 flick tech". This is obviously not intended so it is easy way for dev like mandy to report this is indeed bug. So I do see this getting changed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4nB0Mbb5HU@HexHuntressThighs said:
They will be removed. It would be a double standard not to after removing Chuckys 180 flicks. Then I assume Wesker would be next because his hug techs are definitely not intentional.
I have to say. Wesker with tech is one of the most flashy characters to watch. It is like watching Wesker play with his food. Wesker had two things for him. His hindered tunneling which is being nerfed to the ground and this tech. Wesker will really lose a lot of his power when he is fixed to function properly.
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@squbax said:
Saying you cant counter oni flicks shows a misunderstanding of them, yes they will hit you if you hug the corner, but you can juke him before that.
Bad onis are a joke because of that, his power is literally just a timer for you to go into corners while in chase and you will not get hit by it because well... They are bad and cannot flick.
Now playing against a good oni is scary af because they can actually make blood fury scary and you have to thing how to approach a chase, should you use a corner? Should you fake the window? Use collision to make him miss or a checkspot to avoid getting hit?
Why on earth should devs remove the only skill ceiling oni has?
this entire post for Oni can be just replaced with Blight everywhere.
Why on earth did the devs remove the only skill ceiling blight has?
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@Blueberry said:
Hag does need some help. That base kit wipe away nerf hurt them a lot.
trappers traps have had 3.5 second disarm time for years.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728929#Comment_3728929
With the exception that Engravings actually saw use. And that they only nerfed the Add Ons because they buffed his Basekit (which did not happen to Billy back then).
that is why what i am trying to say. They're only nerfing add-on's because they buffed deathslinger's base-kit. billy got buffed, then like 6 months after, he got reworked. foreshadowing deathslinger's rework. wonder they'll give him that hook shot ability they talked about in dev stream years ago about shooting harpoons and realing himself to the location, like a reverse wesker dash.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Who even rans both of those Add Ons? In the end, part of the Add Ons was made Basekit and the Add Ons itself were nerfed. This is normal practice for minor Killer Buffs.
I guess BHVR has data which Add Ons were used and I would also guess that using both Add Ons did not happen at all, so it is not really relevant that they are weaker than before when using both. IMO players will take the Basekit-Buffs and use those Add Ons simply less than before (and certainly not both, which I have never seen at all).
this change is like the billy change where they nerf doom engravings. total clueless.
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@ad19970 said:
I mean, Resident Evil games aren't asymetrical multiplayer games either, and yet that chapter got many new players into DBD.
In my opinion Vecna fits just fine into DBD, and doubt it means that we will see more unfitting stuff added to DBD. And his implementation is absolutely fantastic.
that is because resident evil games fall under same category of… video games. DND on other hand? not so much. Tabletop games have very little or no connection to DBD.
there are indirect references in DND in video games such as stats like STR, Agility, Luck, Wisdom, Int. all that stuff is present in video games but again. none of this is related to dbd.
Vecna from gameplay perceptive for dbd looks outplace. he is not particular good in PTB and survivor perks are somewhat joke perks. I don't want to jinx it but the licensed chapter might be their worst license ever put into the game.
I do agree with OP that you will be seeing more Fortnite type licenses in the sense of unrelated horror content. I do not want to use direct names but it was hinted in previous interviews that DBD can add any content they want to add. there is only question of picking your battles for what should be added vs what should not.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
I've played Hag for years. The main issue with Hag is large maps. Since the map is too large and there are too many routes, your traps get spread too thin and it's very hard to get downs if survivors know what they are doing. If survivors constantly remain outside of your web of traps, they can just keep reseting after every hit. Chasing them is pointless since you are a 110 killer and your chase is too weak. The only survivors who lose against Hag on large maps are those that don't know about this counterplay and keep running further into the web of traps.
that is why Hag's strongest strategy is 3 gens because it shrinks maps. Hag is entirely end game killer and as such, is meant to be played as one. Something that youtube video clearly fails to recognize. In general, all trapping killer have one issue. It is that survivor have no reason to interact with their traps and can just spread out and do gens, avoid every single trap until final 3 gen. It is huge net-negative loss for killer and requires little no time input from survivor.
this is also why reducing trap detection zone was in fact big nerf to hag because it made your traps get spread even more thin making them cover less area. Also nerfing the detection radius add-on also nerfed waterlog which thrived off having big traps for hindered. Now the hindered is essentially useless because survivor walks away from phantasm.
@drsoontm said:
The point at 6:14 is why I've stopped playing Hag altogether. It's infuriating.
the thing is, you can place traps such that you can hit survivor as 4.4 before survivor makes it to a loop. you don't need swing directly out of a trap immediately. that is also why Mint rag is super strong as add-on for hag because you can use mint rag like a Nurse teleport blink with 4.4 m/s follow-up.dev put hag as 4.4 m/s because m/s increases radius in which a hag trap successfully hits you.
As you can see, Ace doesn't have loop nearby.
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728051#Comment_3728051
Before the introduction of wiping away they were supposed to used a lantern to burn the trap. That's why most of the Hags used Franklin's. Yeah, it wasn't the best design, but we are talking about another DBD era.
So why don't you just not swing immediatly if you know people do this thing? Teleport and then take the hit afterwards?
Because Hag is a 110% (4.4m/s ) killer. If you see the video (5:15) you will notice that when Hag use her teleport without hitting she takes a lot of time to catch up the survivor. She NEEDS her power to get a hit, but her power is easily counterable in SO MANY WAYS that makes it impossible to use it decently against survivor if they have the minimum experience.
Hag has a straight away counter intended by the devs: wipe the traps. That what survivors should do against her and there is no reason to not be like this.
have you ever considered using devour hope and make your choice?
- Equip devour hope, setup 3 gen near it
- Get a hook, Use make your choice get 3 stacks of devour hope
- Setup traps and teleport to instant down with devour hope, eventually mori the survivor.
- If you don't want to deal with hag counter-play, use Mint rag. You can strategically place traps to cut survivors off and teleport on command. It is little bit like a dredge locker teleport in nightfall or Sadako TV's but way stronger since there is no travel time, at all. The only downside is 4.4 m/s instead 4.6 m/s catch-up. Mint rag also makes Make Your Choice very easy to use and once permanent exposed is in play, the act of resetting becomes irrelevant feature. One of hag's biggest weaknesses is triggering trap→resetting, war of attrition, twiddle down 3 gens. All this fades away with exposed.
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@Garboface said:
It is most definitely a PC thing. I would love to see a console survivor capable of pulling this maneuver off.
the trick to counter this is to use your m2 at around 22-23 seconds.
@Blueberry said:
It generally only works against lower mmr killers.
I agree, these tech don't work at all vs good players. Most FOV tech are just survivor running into the killer. All you do is press S/backward and swing forward. if it is dealing with injured survivor using dead hard then you need to follow the camera and then baby m1 swing.
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@Marc_123 said:
Because they don´t like techs.
From what i saw he has some ridiculous addons now instead.
double iri is getting nerfed. blight is going to be weak. He's still challenging with double iri but that will soon pass.
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i just wish clown had more bottles. I use 1 bottle before i hit someone with basic attack, 1 bottle after the hit and then i have 1/1 for 1 loop and 1/1 bottle for 1/1 a 2nd loop. It is like bottle capacity changes never happened. annoying to run thick cork stopper. It is just constant reloading simulator with clown.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727314#Comment_3727314
I don't think you understand how big 21% is.
It's a lot, when you compare it to any other perk, but it's not everyone.
i'd say 21% is probably 40-50% of survivor perk load outs.
Yeah, that seems like a valid guess. Still nowhere near to everyone.
Borrow time is a raw advantage perk. Are you surprised that soloq and SWF would benefit equally from this change? WoO is info perk
That simply doesn't matter. Only thing that mattters is opening another perk slot. I consider WoO chase perk, because it helps in chase.
inevitably, the UI could be argued to help SWF as well as Soloq but like the stats show
Sure, but depends how much. It all comes down to how easy is that info shared. It's very easy to say just action (healing, working on gen, cleansing a totem) anyone can say this type of information, that's why I don't think it affected SWF that much, but helped soloQ a tons.
Part of reason why the % number is high is because 4 man SWF is not having to run bond or WoO
It's really not true SWF are not using WoO. Everyone is using it and Bond is still good even for SWF. It is useful to everyone other than full SWF, where everyone is skilled enough to use clock call outs, but I can't see those to be majority, it's very small % of players.
To most players, Bond makes body blocking way easier and mainly prevent you to bringing killer to your teammates unless you want to. It's possible to get that affect only with clock call outs, most players are not able to give you precise enough information except major structures (shack, main etc) and even there it can be difficult get into correct position for bodyblocks.
It's really not true SWF are not using WoO. Everyone is using it and Bond is still good even for SWF. It is useful to everyone other than full SWF, where everyone is skilled enough to use clock call outs, but I can't see those to be majority, it's very small % of players.
the very top usually is small % of players. I do not see any harm in buffing average SWF because average SWF is not over-performing by too much. well they're still 43% but it is not as high as 48%.
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@Blueberry said:
I think the better route would be adding a little less break rate when it’s going through an object to give him a little more time to pull around the loop than he currently has.
that is change i suggested. I suggested that his purple add-on reduces the chain break speed by 100% when travelling through an object instead of giving him 10 charges.
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@Blueberry said:
I've actually been loving it lol
the game are super easy for killer on average besides eyrie of crows. I don't know what scottjund is complaining about.
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@BeniaminG_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728206#Comment_3728206
I will definityl disagree on the part where you said that he's not fun to play I get a great ammount of joy out of his gameplay almost everything about it, he just needs some QOL to be viable, but on the topic of guaranteed hits is kinda unavoidable you cant make a ranged killers who doesnt get free hits on windows but I think you misinterprited what Akeeno said. Slinger can allready get free hits on windows if he's about 8 or so meters away from the survivor any further range is just a chain break because while holding W to reel yourself in to the survivor the survivors have tremendous control over their movement so as long as the survivor is injured its a bit harded and it should stay that way in my opinion and this change would also kinda mess with that so yea Im eaven less of a fan of the deep wound timer going down thingy.
yes and i replied saying it is bad design. the chain deep wound change further encourages this gameplay and now makes it apply to pallets. He won't be more viable because time sink will still somewhat long to get inevitable down but he'll be less fun for survivor.
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just because pyramid head and huntress can hit into down from animation locks doesn't mean this is good design. these killer are stronger then deathslinger but they're not fun design for survivor. Deathslinger should not have this unfun design of guaranteed hits. DBD needs avoid guaranteed hits where possible.
Slinger doesn't need to be A-S tier killer. he just needs to be fun to play. he is not fun to play right now.
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it would lower his skill-cap into old version of pyramid head. You would just shoot at animation locks such as Windows or pallet vaults until survivor goes down. The survivor cannot dodge if they're animation locked
This used to be a problem with pyramid head because he had no cooldown for going outside of his power, so what would happen is pyramid head would put his sword on the floor, then as survivor goes through pallet, if he doesn't drop it, you m1, if he does drop it, you hit survivor with m2.
Deathslinger's problem is too much counter-play on shooting his gun from long range. What is the point of being long range killer if long ranged shots are easiest shots to side-step because of travel time+charge time?
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@Blueberry said:
I like the idea. Only issue I see is it can directly counter some killer powers which I know the devs didn’t want to be a thing. Like instantly removing Ghostface Exposed for example. Maybe make it just on death hook you can press the active button to remove Exhaustion, minus the needing to be full health stipulation it has to make it a little easier to use? Idk how balanced this would be though. I generally really dislike second chance perks, especially ones that have no skill requirement.
i agree that injured stimulation holds it back. I could imagine survivors using decisive strike, sprint burst and blood rush as anti-tunnel build. you get DS anti-tunnel for first hook and than you get bloodrush+sprint burst on second hook.
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@GeneralSkien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727401#Comment_3727401
oof, fair point, I wrote those changes out of fear of an inevitable skull merchant nerf, despite the fact she isn’t really a “high tier” killer. I wanna try and produce better ideas, any advice?
Also, I really really hope those PTB changes are a joke, I reread them over and over again, and they are just gonna make Skull Merchant another Freddy, literal F tier killer. What do you mean you took away skull merchants Area lock down to give it a chase power only to take away the chase power, what.This isn’t directed at you BTW, it’s at those changes
i mean those were her ptb version. i don't think they gave you m/s for crouching, instead they slowed your m/s when holding down radar which just made player not use radar. something like that.
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pain res and pop are fine at 25% & 30% current. Just take the meaningless nerf because you'll still run it anyway.
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@GeneralSkien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727340#Comment_3727340
hinder OR injury, honestly doesn’t sound like too bad of an idea, personally I perfer the injury over the hinder, but that seems like a good idea. I was just trying to address the issue of counterplay with skull merchant. There is a lot of counter play and yet everyone just kinda ignores it, and it makes skull merchant a killer that is hyper inflated in kills due to the amount of people that just straight up give up. It’s frustrating, and I was hoping this idea would alleviate that argument while still keeping skull merchant as is.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727319#Comment_3727319
That seems a bit… too much. I honestly don’t know, maybe I have to see what it would look like live, but a power that consistently gives the SURVIVOR haste seems just bordering beneficial to the survivors more than the killer. I don’t want Skull Merchant to be dead or useless, I just want her at a level where she isnt the most complained about killer in the game. Give survivors a boosted old MFT, and slowing drones to meme add-on seems kinda a cruel punishment, maybe Divine intervention. I am kinda find with the cooldown honestly, but there other changes just seem too harshyour changes are about as bad BVHR PTB merchant. As Ohtofu stated, skull merchant is fine as is. if they do nerf skull merchant, i'd just play clown to be honest. Clown doesn't get nearly as much D/C as merchant.
I don’t want Skull Merchant to be dead or useless, I just want her at a level where she isnt the most complained about killer in the game.
I disagree based off changes and the survivor that d/c do not want her dead because they don't need to play against her.
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He'd be stronger plague that doesn't need to get fountains and just has automatic ranged attack. I think weakened should do something for killer rather then just be self-nerf to killer power.
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BVHR has already shown a nerfed version of skull merchant from PTB. They would mainly just change Drone rotation speed by -50% and making crouching lasers grant survivor a 5% haste bonus for 5 seconds. Also they might bring double cooldown back where you get a cooldown for placing drones and cooldown recalling. PTB skull merchant in a nutshell.
They don't need that many changes. they need like 2-3 changes and the killer is dead/useless.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727220#Comment_3727220
report that 21%(?) of survivors
This isn't really a buff if everyone already using the perk.
Since when is 21% is considered everyone? That's some very flawed math. 100% != 21%
This isn't really a buff if everyone already using the perk.
Sooo just because players already use something, it is not considered buff when it becomes basekit? That doesn't make any sense.
When BT become basekit, it was major buff simply because it opened slot to any other perk. Fact that everyone was using it, has nothing to do with impact of that change.The buff is saving an extra perk slot so you don't need to use WoO's in soloq.
….
So it is not buff to players who use it, when they gain extra perk slot? Whaaaat
It is same thing if survivor could see aura's in like 24 meter radius so they can locate other teammates easily in chase to loop more efficiently or find healing.
That's also major buff that would affect everyone. That's not just soloQ feature.
So those perk would likely be top pick-rate which is what most SWF uses anyway. so now soloq and swf are playing same game.
No, you just buffed the game for everyone. SWF are still better by a lot and SWF are going to have way easier time with those changes.
There is no way WoO should ever in any form become basekit. It has nothing to do with soloQ fixing, it just makes game easier for any survivor.
Only valid idea in regards of Bond I have seen is it would affect only surivvors you are not in SWF. So 3 SWF (see 1 survivor), 1 soloQ (see 3 survivors). That would still be a huge buff for survivors except full SWF.I don't think you understand how big 21% is. I do not remember what pain res % was, I want to say it was 25%. Recently pain res got nerfed to 20% total regression as this perk was present in 60% of killer load out. I am trying find dev post but just take my word for the post.
that is massive. Just by looking at the numbers, i'd say 21% is probably 40-50% of survivor perk load outs. that means that on average, every dbd killer match you play, there is at least 2 window of opportunity per match.
It is been many years since dbd has posted stats on 2, 3, 4 man swf but 3 and 4 man swf are extreme minor minority of that play dbd. the vast majority of player playing dbd are soloq and duo. It was something like 65% soloq, 20% duo, 9% trio and like 5% 4 man.
When BT become basekit, it was major buff simply because it opened slot to any other perk.
Borrow time is a raw advantage perk. Are you surprised that soloq and SWF would benefit equally from this change? WoO is info perk.
That's also major buff that would affect everyone. That's not just soloQ feature.
inevitably, the UI could be argued to help SWF as well as Soloq but like the stats show, soloq escape rate is 39% while 4 man SWF at high MMR escape rate is 48%. I don't think it is equally as important for 4 man SWF. Part of reason why the % number is high is because 4 man SWF is not having to run bond or WoO and is instead running perks like Decisive strike and Adrenaline, High impact raw advantage perks to increase their survival escape rate. This also goes into FTP+Buckle up or Background player. All these perk are not really that popular in soloq because soloq just doesn't have perk slots to use it. Simple as that.]
Only valid idea in regards of Bond I have seen is it would affect only surivvors you are not in SWF. So 3 SWF (see 1 survivor), 1 soloQ (see 3 survivors). That would still be a huge buff for survivors except full SWF.I am fine with that as a change. as I said, i don't think it matters too much for 3 man/4 man swf. It is not like they're struggling anyway.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726877#Comment_3726877
Bloodlust is expected though and has very clear intervals when it happens. Most haste perks aren’t like this however
the perk are more predictable because every single one of them triggers off specific condition.
gameafoot: triggers when your obsession and the killer breaks a pallet.
rapid brutality: triggers when you get hit.
The majority of haste perks also have limited duration so they're worse then bloodlust which bloodlust has unlimited duration and can stack up to higher boosts of speed. I don't understand your complaint/point.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726991#Comment_3726991
they call out looping locations like 1 clock, 6 clock, 9 clock, and so on
Most SWF are not capable / can't be bothered to use clock call out system. I have played with only few people, where we actually used this.
But anyone can just say "I dropped shack". You can easily make call out like that. But that's still not majority, most players simply don't care and talk about completely unrelated things. Not all SWF are competitive.I proposing something like a red aura is shown when a pallet is dropped
I think impact of this is way bigger than you expect. It's not about just information what pallet was dropped, mainly it won't help you at all, because it's very difficult to guess what loop was it unless you have direct LoS.
But it is going to make protection hits way easier for survivors. Not even WoO is doing this, so I have no idea how you connected this to basekit feature, when it has nothing to do with WoO.
This change help every survivor in DBD, not just soloQ. I really don't think we need any feature like this in current situation. I can get behind features to help soloQ, that would affect SWF very little, or none. This is definetly not one of those. This is major buff to all survivors.
This change help every survivor in DBD, not just soloQ. I really don't think we need any feature like this in current situation. I can get behind features to help soloQ, that would affect SWF very little, or none. This is definetly not one of those. This is major buff to all survivors.
the majority of survivors are using window of opportunity. i believe the official statistic report that 21%(?) of survivors use window of opportunity. This isn't really a buff if everyone already using the perk.
The buff is saving an extra perk slot so you don't need to use WoO's in soloq.
It is same thing if survivor could see aura's in like 24 meter radius so they can locate other teammates easily in chase to loop more efficiently or find healing. that would save a perk slot on bond. so that is 2 extra free perk slots now can be used on really strong like decisive strike+adrenaline. So those perk would likely be top pick-rate which is what most SWF uses anyway. so now soloq and swf are playing same game.
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@VomitMommy said:
It also doesn't necessarily make mind games or loops more difficult for the killer, as the loop itself remains the same.
That's not really true. WoO just makes your chases longer, because you can never guess wrong about pallet/window position.
It's funny how people try to hide WoO behind noobs and soloQ, while even SWF use it. SWF usually makes call outs only for god pallets, or none at all.
Best thing about WoO is ignoring most of RNG map generating, you can never be surprised by it.
I don't think WoO should get nerfed, but BHVR should definetly not use "high pick rate" as a reason for any nerfs as long this perk is around. Well, they failed at this many times.It definetly doesn't need to be basekit.
SWF don't call it pallet locations, they call out looping locations like 1 clock, 6 clock, 9 clock, and so on. it is implied that where ever your looping, your using up the resources of that area.
Something does need to be done about WoO. I think it both need nerf and something need to be add base-kit for survivor to know what pallets have been used. I proposing something like a red aura is shown when a pallet is dropped.
It only makes it easier to start loops and chain loops, once again, taking elements of RNG out and making skill more important.
The elements of RNG in original DBD was part of balance of looping. there is no chance that BVHR will ever add aura's as a regular mechanic for survivor within the chase. part of the feel of dbd is suppose to be that your a survivor trying to scavenge resources and piece together a puzzle in the chase. WoO really deletes chase immersion in dbd. The skill to become proficient at looping drastically goes down with Windows. that is why i do not think it is healthy perk but at same time, it is a perk that bridges some soloq weaknesses creating a necessary evil with exist.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726920#Comment_3726920
I disagree. I wouldn't realistically say she's A because nearly no one can play her at A. It being because of her skill ceiling is irrelevant if they can't reach it. The emphasis is more on the amount able to achieve it, IE nurse or blight are high skill ceilings that most don't play well on average but there is still actually a decent enough portion able to that's it's worth using that skill ceiling as an accurate measure of tier. So in other words the percentage of Huntresses that can play her at A are so low it's nearly rounded to a 0 to me.
I agree on Pinhead and Oni being overrated as well.
I think blight is overrated but that is just my opinion.
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@Blueberry said:
Huntress. Most people put her in A tier but honestly like .01% of Huntress players are good enough to be A tier. The vast majority of Huntresses even in high mmr games are B at best. Lots of people play against her wrong.
I mean that is not overrated. that is just saying that the killer has high skill-cieling to perform well.
Pinhead. Rated too highly. The other killer that i think is overrated is Oni. The outplay level of the survivor is high.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726841#Comment_3726841
I will say in general hast is more volatile for survivors just due to how looping works with their smaller hitboxes and how there can be 4 of them on a team.
But yeah things like huntress’ haste add-ons and perks like batteries included should be reconsidered imo as all they do is make chases more inconsistent in an annoying way survivors can’t really account for
Huntress add-on change was mistake because ammo capacity did not need changing. The other perks are fine and do not need to be reconsidered.
My main issue with this is that most of the haste effects just aren’t readable in normal gameplay and can stack to create pretty inconsistent chases.
One of the most defining skills for survivor is the ability to calculate distance between killer and the survivor. Haste effects are readable in normal gameplay. Bloodlust is probably most common haste effect in the game and it virtually happens every single match.
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viable hex perk = boring. makes sense.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It’s always been a decent perk, but it became irrelevant when Circle of Healing was meta (and in a way it could be detrimental to use since you were taking away boon spots by using it). Now that there aren’t boons in every game anymore it’s back to being a good choice.
i think it is still irrelevant because of med-kits. why would i ever run this perk over running streetwise med-kit? irrelevant before, irrelevant after.
@MrDardon said:
I wouldn't mind if they gave Inner Strength the Overzealous/Clairvoyance treatment by making it activate on blessing as well.
Then you could maybe increase the healing time to like 12 seconds since you could then use it as much as you want which will make Inner Strength quite popular.
Shattered Hope will then also see some more use again, (besides the fact that it needs a rework or buff anyways.) as people will combine Inner Strength with a Boon of choice.
i don't think it will be popular like ever. strength from shadows+botany knowledge is free unlimited healing for just going to the basement. it is way easier then inner healing and yet you still don't see that. Heck i think even running self-care+botany with a med-kit charges add-on might be superior.
I think it would be interesting if they buffed inner healing from 8 second →4 seconds. It might have potencial with Quick&Quiet where you heal mid-chase like an instant heal. that is only way i see this being remotely popular.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah there were many perks that gave zero or near enough to zero value in many games, that’s how bad so many are. We need to stop nerfing things and just start buffing the hundreds of bad ones. Most of them don’t even need developer time, they’re as simple as number changes that takes seconds. Increase the durations, lower the cooldowns or remove them entirely ect.
I bet dev acquired more stats on these perks than they ever have with chaos shuffle. Like in term of stats: "How effective is deathbound?" a good 80% of the perk have almost no stats because their play-rate is so so low that it is not existent.
in my opinion, dbd has stayed status quo for long time. Unless something drastically changes, I don't expect much or any changes for bad perks. One of the directors at one point said that all the perks are in the "best spot they can be". When all the perk are in the best spot, there is no reason to change anything. right?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725932#Comment_3725932
I think they used it for significantly more than just pallet saves. I’ve still seen good killers get outplayed on flashlight saves.
Regardless, ignoring the flashlight example my other point remains. I don’t think you need zero base kit counter play to make something good. Many, many things in the game have too much base kit counter play which prevents them from being good, but I think we have different definitions of “reasonable”.
it is hard to draw the line between how uncounterable something has to be viable. I think best example i can give is dead hard. In principal, dead hard is extremely easy perk to counter. you just wait out, hug survivor then m1 baby swing. no chance they'll react in 99.99% of cases.
there are situations with dead hard where if a survivor is just making it to the pallet, you have to swing but if you swing, the player can dead hard on reaction making the perk uncounterable. there is also certain pallets where you can slide and if killer swings, you dead hard. the thing is, survivor need setup scenario for this perk to be powerful. it is uncounterable when you use it correctly but requires skill for the player to use it correctly making it not accessible for every player
why is it important for something to be accessible? accessible things that are powerful tend to be broken in video games. Aka if everyone can use the broken thing consistently because it is easy, then it is consistently over-performing because it is too easy. now where you draw the line between too easy and too hard is subjective.
In conclusion, i think that powerful thing in dbd need to uncounterable to be relevant but subjectively powerful such that not everyone can use it or rather not everyone uses it to same degree. they need to be uncounterable within like player skill. like a good player makes uncounterable but a bad player doesn't use it well.
Unfortunately, that is not the case for 90% of stuff in dbd. a lot of stuff in dbd just holds no value or is too weak regardless of who uses it. this is largely because a lot of dbd balance is made very safe. not many new things get released to be experimentally good. they're released with lowest form of power possible. sometimes it gets buffed other times, it just stays irrelevant.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725926#Comment_3725926
I think this is just having a different definition of what we view as “reasonable”. I understand the directions you’re going and I would view those as more than reasonable, not just reasonable.
For example, flashlights have reasonable counter play but can still be good if you play it well.
i disagree. flashlights are a terrible waste of time vs a competent killer. the only thing that makes them reasonable to use is background player or 99% sprint burst. It took 200% background player for soloq to start using the perk and a lot of the time, people didn't even use background player for flashlights, they used it for uncounterable which is pallet saves.
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@Blueberry said:
I lean towards things in general should all be “reasonably” counter able base kit to at least some degree and perks should just improve on or make the countering easier. Unfortunately I would say based on the way the game is currently the devs feel differently as we have quite a few things that I wouldn’t consider reasonably counterable in the base kit and do require perks. Tunneling and gen speeds come to mind immediately. There is “some” base kit counter play here depending on skill but is it a “reasonably” good amount? Probably not.
Ideally we’d slow gens down at base and make tunneling literally impossible. That would be my ideal there.
reasonably counterable effects are irrelevant and never get used. For example Jake's base-kit sabotage perk is reasonably counterable. You get hit during Sabo, the perk goes on cooldown. Who uses it? No one. It is just bad.
Nurse calling is reasonable counterable perk on default 32 TR meter killers. Don't heal in TR. Who uses Nurse calling? Do you see this perk in meta builds? Nope. If you do, it is likely on a stealth killer.
As you see, reasonable counterable is often trash/not good enough. Things need to be not counterable to gain consistent value otherwise they just suck. Look at ultimate weapon now vs ultimate weapon before. The current version is so low value on almost every killer that there is no point in playing it. Survivor has no reason to run calm spirit and killer have no reason to bring a ultimate weapon.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725741#Comment_3725741
The ability to camp hooks isn't Huntress's identity at all. It's BUBBA'S identity. Get it right.
i'd say it is all 3 of them. bubba, trickster and huntress are all same. just different flavors.
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@OrangeBear said:
Yeah i think it's terrible. It's not even worth it on legion anymore imo. Because all they have to do is have at least one survivor healthy at a time and the penalty is minor. And if one survivor dies, then it's stuck at being minor.
I like it on plague sometimes because it encourages survivors to cleanse but there's probably better perks to use on plague.
Not worth using at all on every other killer.
I hope to see a rework in the future that makes it viable for all killers.I just want the anti-heal component to return. 5% longer healing per survivor.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725741#Comment_3725741
She has her identity as a ranged killer who can hit survivors from afar. Making her weaker at camping does not take that away.
it takes away one of her strengths. she has no mobility options to apply pressure otherwise.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725741#Comment_3725741
Yikes.
For one of the few killers that has aim as part of skill expression, standing still at 12m with a hatchet knocked at a stationary target is neither her identity, nor is it a win condition.
This is literally a killer that can use no slowdown and all information perks to dominate the match, when played well/correctly.
Huntress has no map presence. While a high skilled huntress is deadly in the chase. Her ability to apply spread pressure on the map is very limited in isolation. So of course, I disagree that huntress can win with no slowdown or information perks off pure skill alone.
Spread out to do gens and pre-running can beat a chasing huntress(She is very slow 4.4 m/s killer with a 40 meter lullaby).
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725741#Comment_3725741
This is not serious right? How is that her identity?
it is kinda long explanation.
The way huntress build map presence on the map is by hook camping and in particular, slug camping. The objective of huntress is to down two survivors, hook 1 survivor than pick up survivor 2 and then drop survivor 2 near hook. Some huntress even use Agitation as @edgarpoop would explain in comp.
When two survivor on the floor, you can't pick up slugged survivor because huntress holding hatchet can just knock slugged survivor immediately back on the floor and saving a hooked survivor at best case scenario results in a trade. When huntress successful does this correctly, you are in spiral of unable to recover.
If this happens at early stages of the game like 5 gen, 4 gen or 3 gen, the 2 survivors are unable to finish generators before survivor dies on hook so they're forced to help the teammate on the floor and hooked survivor but it will often result in 3k/4k for huntress even against best teams.
Luckily, survivor do have perks to counter this nasty strategy. There is 3 perks in particular that counter this strategy. I'll go from least effective to most effective. The first perk is Tenacity. This perk is good because when a survivor is dropped, you can recover and crawl very quickly away from the hook. This allows teammates to safely pick up the 3rd survivor, heal up and potencial body block rescue a teammate that will likely be on death hook. The second is set of perks is called Soulguard and Unbreakable. Soulguard is a perk that any time you are picked up from the dying state, you gain endurance and unbreakable is a perk that allows you to recover a single time from dying state on your own. When you pick yourself up, a huntress holding hatchet will attempt to knock you down however Soulguard will save you and tank the hit. This can allow you escape from hook or even rescue your teammate that is dying on the hook. The 3rd final perk is Buckle up. This perk allows you to gain endurance effect any time you heal a survivor from dying state. When the huntress shoots a hatchet to knock you down from your recovery, you can tank a hit and hopefully escape. Buckle up will be changing next patch to not be able to tank a hit, so it will diminish in effectiveness at saving the survivor in certain situations if huntress shoots the hatchet before your sprint burst takes off.
Nerfing huntress camping would be highly detrimental for huntress. It is like nerfing leatherfaces ability to hit endurance and instant down or making trickster unable to use main event near the hook. It is part of their identity and it is important for their viability vs extreme gen-rush/second chance teams.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
That sounds reasonable.
And tbh the cooldown addons are insane for their low rarity anyways, I would not mind them being slightly less effective in general.
weakening huntress ability to camp hook is taking away her identity. her win condition.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725584#Comment_3725584
His powers cooldown is 12 seconds so its literally imposible to what you just said. And this is coming from someone who thinks unknown is better than what people on here believe. But for a down to be that quick you have to be playing against babies first dbd match or people using 4 different types of hallucinogenic substances.
between cooldown of landing the shot, m1 & wiping your weapon, this is like 6 seconds of cooldowns. the cooldown is 12 second but it is more like a down in sub 6-7 seconds between both hits.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725481#Comment_3725481
rapid is a bad perk, and save is terrible now againt coordinated teams because the obsession can block you to the point you literally must hit them, losing stacks. at least before the nerfs, you could m2 them.
survivor bodyblocking sbtfl is basically free gen defence for unknown. in fact, it is arguably more powerful then any gen defence perk. his ranged projectile can mostly ignore bodyblockers. if the obsession so cocky to the point of unhooking then you can machine gun slug them for free slug pressure. I think it is pretty underrated for him to be able to m2→m1→m2 and down someone in <10 seconds. It is just getting initial m1 hit is rough for him. that is my take on him. The look to disable power is survivor mechanic. it should be killer mechanic that killer can profit from.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725505#Comment_3725505
Not really, that's only a mori similarity. Pig and Onryo have very similar macro play.
Onryo is suppose to be about manipulating the tape item to gain or lose mori potencial. She's inherent meant to be an item-based killer which doesn't exist in her kit. that is how her 1.0 and 2.0 design worked. Now she is just tp spam which is particularly strong on double floor indoor maps. Pig has nothing like this, no tp or items.
Pig is a killer where she puts reverse bear traps on you and she is suppose capitalize off reverse bear traps by ambushing you at jigsaw box locations.
Yes they have macro play but like gameplay is different.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725489#Comment_3725489
They're both heavy macro play of juggling a secondary objective for mori's.
that is like saying tombstone myer's is the same as Pig. they have radically different design points.