Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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i still don't see any similarity behind Onryo or Pig. they have virtually nothing in common besides both having a mori for different purposes. Maybe old pig players got attracted by Onryo. weird.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/415080/i-think-unknown-isnt-as-good-anymore
The trick with unnkown, is realizing that the "grenade" power is almost worthless against any decent survivor. The trick is the teleport. The teleport, combined with some kind of undetectable, is pretty strong.
i wouldn't say useless. If you run save the best for last and Rapid brutality, you can direct hit shot → bounce→hit enemy then m1 them then M2. you get very quick machine gun hit.
Unknown for me is just better deathslinger. Deathslinger used to be able to do m1→m2 shot and get quick downs. Unknown grenade launcher is the same.
He also had add-on to apply free exhaust on his shots which is very strong. you just delete lithe, dead hard at no cost. Still, I think his m1 play is too weak to "get" the machine gun.
I think if he had hindered effect when survivors don't look at him while weakened, He could be decent killer. right now he's like middle of the road killer. you just don't get enough reward for his shots.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725007#Comment_3725007
I do like few like the window one or Game Afoot but the problem is the numbers are too safe and unless you play full haste/action speed build they do nothing and even then these builds are rather gimmicky than good.
when i am bored of gen defence, i like running friends till end, nemesis, gameafoot and play with your food. I think these 4 perks work well together and are surprisingly good for killers with poor chase. i just wish gameafoot switched on all basic attacks so that friend till end and nemesis were not needed for consistency to switch the obsession for play with your food.
As for perks like Battery included, Unbound, Furtive chase, They're pretty bad. Too many condition's and not enough perk value to select them. These are the type of perks where killer would want to use them in isolation but they're not good.
Furtive chases requiring hook the obsession. The perk would be better off if it got Dead man switch treatment where it is not obsession perk and just triggers on every hook. Switching is over-shadowed by other obsession switchers.
Battery included activates when your losing. Outside of the silly Legion end game build of Remember me+No way out+NOED+Battery BFF legion build, it is not good. If they buffed this perk to work on any generator, completed or non-completed then this would be a decent filler chase perk to slot in.
Unbound has requirement to injure and a timer. Honestly, just removing both negatives and making the perk read " gain 5% haste for 10 second after vaulting a window" would make him an appealing choice to be paired with bamboozle. Too many negatives to use it on any killer.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725020#Comment_3725020
I should also add, this is why rapid brutality is actually a terrible perk. Because you trade bloodlust, a 5% haste, for a 5% haste after hitting a survivor.
So if you factor that in, that second hit, base, you take 14.73 seconds to catch up, but with rapid, it'll be 10.65, but rapid saves you ~4 seconds, but if you just waited that 4 seconds, you'd get bloodlust anyway, and that bloodlust helps you get the first hit. You could argue it helps at loops, but even then you still have to catch up to them. On top of that, haste is even WORSE at loops, because of survivor hitboxes, the amount of difference in movement speed you gain is even less when hugging around a rock. With the exception of chucky, who appears to have a similar hitbox as survivors do at loops.
Rapid is only good for Clown because he can hit someone, then use pink bottle post-hit. It is like exclusively only good for him. He doesn't get bloodlust because throwing bottles is superior. STBFL+Rapid is what clown has to use right now because his pinky finger got trashed.
Some people use it on singlurarity with Soma photo. decent use for the perk.
I think if rapid gave 3% consistent haste to every killer instead of 5% after a hit for 10 seconds than killers might use it over gen defence.
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that is good idea for new perk. quick gambit is generator oriented perk designed to help your team do gens and make looping more rewarding. While radius of this perk did get improved, it is still not consistent enough to be relevant. It needs more radius.
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@Blueberry said:
I just think they need to make the debuffs/oblivious on the portals reach a large area, like 12meters. They’re in this awkward spot where you want them to debuff the survivors with oblivious or whatever addon effect you’re running but for that it needs to be right on top of the gen. However this also ruins the surprise of teleports. Another huge issue is his Undetectable after teleport being ruined by the fact of how loud his footsteps are, it kinda defeats the point. I’m generally okay with his shred and pallet break right now, it’s his portals and map traversal that have problems.
yes i agree. it is also the fact that you can't get tracking unless survivor stands on top of a portal and you need like hold m2 to do this. it is just awkward. Increasing m/s for holding shred does not need seem like the play.
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@Blueberry said:
This is actually a very common problem that happens a lot and needs addressing.
I agree. at same time, i don't think BVHR understand the nature of the problem because they're implementing finisher mori which is not solving issue.
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@Crowman said:
The funniest thing about these players, is they are the same ones who complained about Skull Merchant holding the game hostage til server timeout. I know this, because I've encountered a few while playing Skull Merchant after her changes and they gave me the reason that their hostage taking was justified because I was playing her.
Honestly I wish BHVR's reporting system was better at dealing with in-game behavior, because people like those need actual punishments and not just AFK crows.
because stealth and 3 gen is same side of the coin for different roles. they fixed 3 gen hostage but they need fix stealth hostage.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3724562#Comment_3724562
Can you read my message? "I gave full OLD Barb's Glasses"…
Before it was 2 seconds breaking speed at base kit and 15% Add-On. 15% from 2 seconds it's 0.3s.why did you nerf lifeguard whistle and lepros lichen?
Demo shred is decent spot. It is the portal that are too weak and need buffs. I'd probably increase portal count from 6 →10, add lifeguard whistle base-kit and leave lepros lichen to where it is at.
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@Blueberry said:
Well first I think people shouldn't be referencing "well you got 7 hooks". In reality you got 4 before gates powered. 3 more hooks at end game when you have nothing to do but stand at the hook isn't really a measure of balance, it's just some default freebies at the end. The game balance is generally measured better in how well you do during the 5 gens. So 4 hooks is what we're looking at for balance. This is one of those cases where people are too focused on end result rather than what the purpose of looking at those hooks is, which is balance. Hooks that don't measure balance aren't important for what we're looking at.
The answer you get here is gonna depend on the persons view of the game. Your most common answer you're gonna get is "buff solo to swf level". The issue with this is that is never going to happen and is an unrealistic goal. The main problem with solo queue is people being bad at the game and poor matchmaking. It's not a balance problem. You can't fix bad people with balance changes and matchmaking is forced to be bad because of how poorly the game is balanced. The poor matchmaking covers up the games problems. Also, even if you could hypothetically get solo to swf level this is all under the assumption that they would buff killer to swf level…which is a stretch in itself, much less how ridiculously long that would take based on the games track record. So while this is the most popular answer you'll get I think it's a utopian type view point that isn't realistic to happen and even if it did would take yearsssss.
The significantly more practical answer would be a simple action debuff on swf. Easy to do and fast to implement. This would better bring swf to solo level. Before people get to it, no, it's not punishing people for playing with friends, it's simply equalizing the advantage they are getting. Even if it's "just buddies having a match and messing around, nothing sweat", still, that is a massive advantage even with a casual and chill mindset. This answer to me is the most practical and logical but it's also disliked by most people.
There's also the third option though which is a separate ranked/unranked queue to solve the problem.
Of course if people don't play killer at a higher level they aren't going to think swf is a problem at all since they aren't experiencing the problem themselves.
Your most common answer you're gonna get is "buff solo to swf level". The issue with this is that is never going to happen and is an unrealistic goal. The main problem with solo queue is people being bad at the game and poor matchmaking.
this is not what the player means when they say buff soloq to swf-level". what buffing soloq to swf-level is all about is giving the player equal opportunity to be as effective in soloq as in a SWF.
here is example:
Window of opportunity is a perk that grants ability for survivor to see pallet aura's. When a teammate drops a pallet and killer breaks the pallet. that pallet is no longer there. a soloq player cannot predict precisely where every single pallet has been broken. As a result, they may run into dead-zones when they get chased by the killer.
A swf on voice can just arbitrary say/use clock calls out for what pallets have been broken. as a result, they are less likely to run into dead-zones.
Suppose soloq could see when a pallet is dropped with a red aura. This would give player a opportunity to identify potencial dead-zones created by teammates. This does not mean that player will not go into dead-zones. It just gives them equal opportunity for them TO NOT go into dead-zones as SWF.
Bond is a perk that grants ability to see aura of teammates in 36 meter radius. When a survivor is in the chase, they would like to loop away from their teammates so that their teammates can safely work generator uninterrupted. SWF can call out where they're being chased to avoid running into teammates.
What if a survivor that is in the chase could see yellow generator aura's. This would allow them to avoid their teammates that are on potencial generators. Again, this does not mean that the survivor player will optimally loop to not run into teammates but it gives survivor the opportunity to make correct play.
Healing is another complicated action that is difficult to optimize in soloq. Part of the reason is that knowing where your teammates are vs hit & run can be challenge when you are constantly being split up and pressured. What if survivor could ping a healing location. Again, this does not mean that soloq survivor will suddenly be optimized healing but it gives opportunity for soloq to optimize healing.
DBD is not meant to balance bad players. it is meant give opportunity for the survivor to play well. Ideally just seeing the teammate aura would fix most of soloq's disparity issues. In my opinion, DBD almost wants this disparity SWF/Soloq teamwork ethic to occur as there has not been much or any attempts to improve it.
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disproportionately suffering against extremely good survivors compared to basically any other killer in the game, since good looping ability and holding a tape totally nullified her power and pressure.
Sounds balanced. Survivor does well = Survivor wins. Survivor does poorly, survivor loses. What exactly is the problem with this?
The only way you could think playing against current Sadako is flowcharty and braindead is if you think survivor gameplay is flowcharty and braindead.
You don't think this power is not hand-holding and spoon feeding you wins? Because I do.
There was nothing fun about wandering around the map trying to find a TV that wasn't turned off, and then once you had a tape you needed to play extremely well to make chasing you an unappealing prospect for her since she only needed to hit you to get rid of the tape.
It is almost like you should need to have some survivor skill to escape. Crazy idea.
You nerf the condemn stacking, it doesn't make her any more fun to play against or solve the fundamental issue that she could single out one survivor and just harass them to ensure they could never use the tapes to take them out of the game extremely fast, but it craters her against the teams she already struggled against unless you also gave her a legitimate chase power to compensate.
So what, do we need to invent anti-tunnel protection build into killer ability? If survivor gets hit with tape in their hand, they're immune to being condemned until another survivor is hit. Wow, I just invented anti-tunnel within killer ability.
Building condemn is once again something the Sadako must put effort into, and survivors actually need to care about it.
That is not my experience with survivor. The matches are so chill as survivor because the survivor do not need to care about condemn. Condemn is a joke mechanic for a good team.
Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework Sadako was fine and that she sucks now, you were being carried by how ridiculously strong she was against 90% of survivors in this game.
I am disappointed that playing against the 10% of sentient survivors is unfun. The matches are not interesting. If I made a brand new account and started smurfing, I would be winning with perkless no add-on trapper. The fact is that 90% of survivor still struggle with Sadako. It is skill-level issue. Nerfing the killer will not improve survivors that play survivor poorly. All it does is create a imbalanced game at the top-level when the killer plays vs a proper team.
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Hag with Monitor&abuse+Waterlogged shoe.
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Trickster - 1
Huntress - 2 Huntress is sometimes better then trickster depending loop tile strength.
Plague - 3
Unknown - 4
Artist -5
Deathslinger -6
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She took far more effort to play against than to play as.
Now she takes more effort to play as then against.
Her gameplan was extremely flowcharty and braindead.
a good description of current survivor gameplay vs Sadako. I am curious to why this is fine for survivor but never fine for killer? Double standards? I also do not agree but in any case.
Meanwhile if you were ever unfortunate enough to go up against really good survivors, it was miserable in the opposite direction. Because any survivor holding a tape was immune to condemn stacking, all they needed to do is hold a tape and rush gens as hard as possible while preying on her lack of a chase power to delay a hit or down as long as they could.survivor holding a tape was immune to condemn stacking
Holding the tape balanced her kit. This description is contradiction to your first statement about her being flowcharty and *********. Perhaps she was too difficulty for you. Facing strong teams Is not suppose to be a free win. Her kit was an appropriate amount of difficulty. Perhaps slightly over-tuned numerical in condemn direction and not enough in the anti-loop/stealth/TV TP direction but still within passable boundaries.
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@Zakon05 said:
I seem to do fine as her, and the rare Sadakos I run into as survivor also seem to do okay.
So I think the objectively wrong one is you.
Your post is like: "I am glad she is useless". I am not joking that whenever i play survivor and it is her. it is sign of relief for how chill the game is going to be. I almost expect to win.
I fully agree with @Chocolate_Cosmos post. every detail of it. All you can hope is that Sadako is reverted/changed back one day to something more middle-ground relevant.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723668#Comment_3723668
Unfortunately it's still scaled by the number of people who do it… which was the element I wanted to be removed. It should ALWAYS take 60s to my mind.
At present for 2-4 players it takes 40-24s for 2-4 players respectively. If a whole team takes it, it goes to 30-15s for 2-4 players respectively. Having this effect available with just 15s was the exact thing I wanted to a void. Even if the killer realises what is going on, just the simple walking time alone would mean the killer can't stop it.
The time should be the same, and invocations should have a primary effect for the holder of the perk, and a bonus effect for anyone who takes part.
i don't think invocations should just be free mindless perks that you equip with large advantages. they should be strategical perks that you build around and strategist to earn you victories. that is just my opinion.
Think of it like hex:devour hope of survivors.
I don't think co-op function matters in new version. if anything, it is waste of time. Just do the gens, the invocation is unlikely to get interrupted anyway.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/414863/so-about-the-invocation
I agree with this, I posted a thread a while back saying that Invocations will always be a problem if they are balanced around time. if the fundamental balance of invocations is centered around time, and reduced significantly the more people that do it:
- If you make the effect strong, it becomes extremely profitable for SWFs, and thus needs a hefty trade off (such as the perrma broken effect) to give it meaningful counter play, and that trade off is usually FAR too harsh for soloQ to consider use.
- If you make the effect weak, then it becomes something that only SWFs ever even consider using for a goof, and the perk type will die off as memes the same way Teamwork perks did.
There are considerations you may want to factor in is a minimum participation requirement, and the effect of multiple people running invocation perks.
Though this thread of mine got too focused on my proposed change to Weaving Spiders, the core principle is still the direction I would go
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/411514/designing-a-workable-invocations-template
Proposed Template
- Invocation perks are standardised to 60 seconds.
- Invocation can only be initiated by a player with an invocation perk.
- Charges are acquired by a player sitting at the salt ring, at a rate of 1 charge per second, regardless of the number players taking part.
- Invocation progress will degrade at a rate of 2 charges per second when no survivor is present.
- Invocation perks have a primary effect (granted to any survivor equipping an Invocation perk) and a bonus effect for other survivors taking part in the ritual (only the bonuses of the initial invocation are granted).
- Each survivor must sit at the circle for 20s to gain the related primary effects of their perks and the related bonus effects of the invoked perk. When the invocation is completed these rewards are granted.
- Once an invocation been completed, the salt ring burns to indicate it can no longer be used.
they went with your idea. i suspect that killer will have 0 counter-play to the perk post-patch. any time anyone bring invocation perk, the effect is nearly guaranteed.
I don't think survivors will use it because reward is not worth it but they can't buff the reward now because buffing the reward has danger of making the perk a must-pick.
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There are two types of Sadako players - 1. Play normally, get 2 hooks and lose. Or 2. Send yourself to Midwich or the Game, spam condemned and mori everyone. What kind of a killer design is this? Useless on most
maps, broken and annoying on a few. How is this healthy for the game?Chuckle. You asked what kind of killer design is this? It is BVHR killer design.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723479#Comment_3723479
Yeah they seem to try to talk the issue about the difference of soloQ and swf small so people won't complain as much about fixing it I guess... Don't know man it is quite obvious that it exists but we are not going for equality of outcome, but equality of opportunity... Same tools should be the goal.
Not saying I would not appreciate it if that was taken into account when balancing things, but unless that gets addressed we cannot really take it into account when balancing a killer ^^
I don't think it would be worse than just monitor, because a. You don't need to use a perk b. Survivors can still have a rough idea that you are close and c. You would be surprised how easy you catch people off guard on for example Huntress if you run monitor xD
But yeah the solution is definitely up for debate ^^
i am against lullaby. i don't like the mechanic. it discourages killer to run stealth perks like trail of torment, unforeseen, tinkerer, hex:plaything etc. I think best compromise currently for slinger is to just make him 4.6 m/s to be an m1 killer.
If they ever have plans to make him m2 good, he can go back to 4.4 m/s.
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there is a lot of killer that are running for worst killers in the game.
Trapper → SWF can call out traps, you have no ability. negative setup time for no pay off.
Myer's → Forced setup time for lower TR which SWF laugh at and instant downs. Unlike Sadako, His tombstone piece does redeeming qualities.
Freddy → A killer that starts no ability for 60 second into a trial that survivors where survivor can turn off for 90 seconds per clock interaction. Poor anti-loop snares, telegraphed teleport.
Deathslinger → A reactable ranged weapon that often wastes more time then helps. 32 meter TR on 4.4 m/s killer allowing pre-running.
Sadako: A killer whose teleport is entirely gated by televisions in which survivor can turn off for 70 seconds with the fastest interaction of 1 second. Grants survivors aura reading on televisions allowing survivor to locate generators quickly. Has bugged invisibility that barely functions. Has almost no threat on the curse mechanic.
Ghostface: A power that is turned off by the survivor looking at you with highest reward being an instant down.
Venca: Lich might be new kid on the block to join these killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723003#Comment_3723003
That's....exactly how it works. If 50 Blights had the same MMR prior to the nerfs, and half are now struggling because they only played Alc Ring, they weren't as good as the other Blights who have the same win rate as before.
nerfs and buffs affect top-players more so then new or middle level players. This is because top-level player uses every tool that the killer has at their disposal while a worse player will not use the tools effectively provided by the killer. A mediocre blight will not use hug tech. they don't even know what it is or how to utilize the mechanic. The top players struggling with blight is indicative of the killer being worse. The mediocre blights likely did not experience much of win-rate change because they weren't playing killer properly.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723008#Comment_3723008
But we're not balancing around Swf do we? Because if we did, we would need to buff soloq to the level of swf which is obviously not the case…
Even the really good players like Hens and other said quickscope slinger felt free, because you could simply not react to it… So I would not say that only bad players complained.
Instead of just lowering his terror radius, how about we do that but give him a lullaby?
that is worse than just running monitor&abuse. I still run monitor&abuse on slinger but I find slinger too weak to play that I barely play him. He just doesn't stack up to the other ranged options.
Because if we did, we would need to buff soloq to the level of swf which is obviously not the case…
not the killer's problem. the killer does not get a choice to not face efficient generator swf's. It is just default balance of the game from the killer point of view. according to one of the dev in q&a, it was stated that soloq is as good as SWF. that what I heard.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723092#Comment_3723092
Dead hard is only situationally active, and it requires a fair amount of timing. Alex toolbox +sabo speed addons, has zero timing, and zero perk requirements.
there is no timing. you get hit, sabo and mash E. even current dead hard can do this but it is limited two times per use. alex toolbox has limited charges. I don't think you'll see sabo. only 0 hook challenge swf use this.
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@adam1233467 said:
alex toolbox with double speed is not balanced, you take a hit and you have time to break a hook and get away without taking a hit
this cannot go live
this is already possible with dead hard. it used to be default sabo back when dead hard was an iframe attack. Now dead hard got nerfed, so they just added it back in a similar form. Back when dead hard was omnipresent in every single match, sabo still wasn't use and alex toolbox hasn't changed since then.
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@Reinami said:
Tunneling needs to not be tied to a perk, they need to completely rework the DS perk, and build in an anti-tunnel mechanic that the game is balanced around.
The other side of it, this mode shows that the game requires some kind of slowdown on a killer. I always say they should do what they do to killer addons like leatherface this coming patch. Nerf the perks, buff the basekit.
Cut the gen defense perks in half and then:
- Basekit gen kick is 10%
- Basekit gen regression is 200%
- Basekit corrupt that lasts 20 seconds
- Basekit corrupt on hex totems that lasts 20 seconds
survivors get power button. The power button allows you to equip any exhaustion perk. Does not cost a perk slot.
Base-kit now adds 10% haste permanently until a another survivor is put into the dying state.
The good thing about these new modifiers is that Dev can use these modifiers as experiments to new modes to modify current dbd. We could see modifier like that where killer gets
→200% regression
→ Base-kit Pain res on every hook
vs
→ The survivor getting a free exhaustion perk
→ unhooked survivor gets 10% permanent haste until another survivor is put into the dying state. Haste buff last's for minimum of 30 seconds.
After that, you can play the mode and see if DBD is better or worse.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
These are good QoL changes, but I feel like it won't make much of a difference in terms of strength.
I've been saying for years that the trapper's real problem is how easily survivors can nullify his power in a matter of seconds. It doesn't matter if he starts the game with all the traps or if he has 50 traps because it's very easy to disarm them and it doesn't require any type of skill.
One solution I proposed is that Bloody coil should be basekit and work in a different way. the traps should have a risk when disarming them, I think it could be a difficult skillcheck like overcharge.
If the survivor fails the skill check, he is injured and is trapped for 1 or 2 seconds with an animation as if his hand had been trapped due to a mistake but if he completes it successfully, the trap is disabled for the trapper for 20-30s, this way the basement strategy and the strategy of locking down some areas do not become so oppressive if the survivor manages to get it right.
i agree, but i think it is better to just put iri stone. it set traps up passively for trapper and if a trap is disabled, the add-on can reset it over time.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722848#Comment_3722848
I wasn't implying it was longer than any other killer. I was implying that she shouldn't have that same lunge for how strong her blink is.
Nurse actually has a reduced lunge. I believe nurse's lunge speed is 6.12 m/s where as most other killer are 7.2(?). A long time ago, 110% m/s killers used to have worse lunges then 115% m/s killer but eventually they changed that. Nurse on other hand did not receive this change and kept her worse lunge.
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@ChaosWam said:
Honestly, I think it depends on the killer. Mobility and ranged killers have it easier than others, they can reliably down quickly compared to base M1 killers or those with really telegraphed powers.
That said, after toying with gen speed builds myself, the optimization of survivor perks needs addressed. There's a good reason why killers run regression, and Chaos Shuffle doesn't highlight that much outside toolboxes.
gen speed builds don't need addressing. the killer is suppose to feel like they lose off making 1 mistake when vsing gen progression. The issue is current base-balance of the game makes killer feel like they lose off making 1 mistake with no progression perks. that is the issue.
The killer in the base games needs room for error but has no room for error vs good teams. that is why they run gen regression…. so that they have room for error…. to physically play the match. Without that, the killer simply doesn't get to play the match. they lose before they get any chance to express skill.
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It is already in the game. It is called Pop goes weasel and Scourge hook: pain res. It just doesn't regress gens 50%.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Slinger has the unique ability to pull survivors away from pallets, safety and possibly into a dead zone. If you hit a survivor who is 15 meters away with a hatchet, after their on hit speed boost they are now 50 meters away with many LOS blockers. But with slinger if you shoot them at 15 meters away, reel them in and hit them they are 10 meters away after their speed boost. Not to mention he can use exposure perks, M1 perks, and stealth perks way better than Huntress.
That being said I think his harpoon hitbox should be bigger and I think he should be 115, as I don't believe any killers without a movement speed ability should be 110. But knowing how people are they genuinely do NOT want to see ANY killers buffed at all because they struggle to win for some reason already. And his kill rates are at the target range so im not sure they will make any significant changes.
that is not a positive. the pulling aspect of slinger is drawback because SWF can bodyblock you. They're trying to buff this in next patch by giving him movement speed while realing but the issue is the -50% durability on the chain when an object or survivor is in the way. It massively lowers durability of his gun allowing survivors to escape his ability.
I disagree with Increasing projectile size or increasing projectile speed. The reason being is that gameplay of slinger is balanced around survivors being able to flick dodge his shot where skill exponent of being able to do that is reading when he is going to shoot.
The issue is that with 0.4 second charge-up time, there is no skill exponent in knowing when he is going to shoot because it is react to him pulling out his gun. When the charge was 0.2, there was a skill component is knowing when he was going to shoot. The better players figuring how to counter his ability while worse players complained he had no counter-play/unfun.
Right now, his biggest problem in my opinion is pre-running. He's 110% with 4.4 m/s. You have so much more time to hear his TR that survivors can be running in front of you and your just playing catch-up. Sometimes even unable to shoot because out of range and then if you miss, your losing even more distance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It'll be a bit like the initial Nurse and Spirit nerfs for a while. The players who relied on his over-tuned add ons will struggle for a bit until their MMR settles.
that is not how it works. The killer player is not struggling because of lack skill. The killer player is struggling because the power-level of the character went way down.
The survivors having an easier time has 0 to do with them playing better. It has everything with killer having worse/limited skill expression compare to before.
What i don't understand is why his iri add-on are getting nerfed. Nurse has 3 blink add-on which is near guaranteed hit every 9 seconds but Chucky who has an 18 second has to get his scamper deleted? Spirit has had mother daughter ring+Dried blossom for extremely long time but Blight's iri add-on get halved. the double standards never cease to impressive me.
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parade gloves already increase bottle throwing speed. Spirit of Harston could decrease yellow bottle activation time by 0.5 second. This kinda already does that by increasing yellow bottle radius so you do not need to throw it as far. Arinad has video of this saying how good add-on is on RPD.
instead of increasing reload speed, Just add +2 bottle capacity to thick cork stopper and increase rarity to green. Spirit of Hartshorn decreased to yellow rarity.
I agree with changes but at same time, i do not think clown needs major changes. Pinky finger is likely only add that needs changing but it does not look like it will be changing any time soon. Maybe they can rework to be like +5 hindered duration on direct hit or something.
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2 minutes is too severe. maybe 3 minutes. i was more in favor of killer downing survivor and rewarding the killer for leaving the slug on the floor.
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so you want them to nerf camping? There is already anti-face camp system. do you want to convert the anti-face camp into full on anti-camping system?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/414569/so-is-new-chucky-better-or-worse
He's weaker. The reason people do the scamper thing now, is because they took away his flick. His attack is braindead easy to dodge currently, and can't really be used at loops because he can't flick anymore.
If they bring back his flick, he'll be in a great spot, a high skill cap killer that takes some practice. Either that or they just increase his movement speed to 115.
As it stands, if nothing else changes, his best playstyle will probably to just go full stealth and use his power to get stealthy hits, and the dash will be used for movement and catching up, not to actually hit anyone with.
he's stronger vs low-mid-high survivor but weaker vs 0.01% survivor loopers. you can down people much quicker on average with new chucky from my 5 games of testing on chucky on PTB but If you face a very very good looper as chucky, you risk having longer chases because your scamper is useless compare to before.
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i'd say nurse would be a B-tier killer if her blink travel time was reduced by -30% and every time she blinks, a icon appears where she will land before she appears.
If these change went through, they should remove nurse's cooldown on blinks.
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@Blueberry said:
I agree. The game would be in a significantly healthier state if it was balanced around hooks instead of kills. While there will always be people going for kills, we should at least encourage healthier play as much as we can. The game currently encourages playing in the most unfun way possible.
you need hooks in like 90% of cases to get kills. So the game is already balanced around hooks.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722179#Comment_3722179
I find that so annoying as well and defeats the point of being stealth. I don’t know why opening eyes and looking around isn’t considered good enough counter play.
because they need counter-play on LOS generators. can't have ghostface getting a couple of unfair hits.
basic hits didn’t remove stalk progress he’d be significantly better.
something that i have asked for long time. never happened, even after his reworks.
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zombies get 1.74 hits per match. is this suppose to mean that nemesis is getting a rework/zombie buff? Otherwise This stat is very random.
3.5 gen kicked per match. that is with pop goes weasel being popular. Is this stat suppose to be saying that they buff gen-kicking for killer? 3.5 gen-kick is incredibly low. It is good show that gen-kicked is ultra-nerfed in 3 gens but what about buffing killer such that over-time gen regression is more relevant?
I am curious for what is % over-time gen regression that a killer on average gets per match? With 3.5 kicks, i imagine that it is like less than 25%. 10% requires a gen to be regressing for 36 seconds. What % of regression does the killer get over-time when using Surge/Pain res vs No regression perks? This would be so interesting to see how poor the killer base gen defence is. Just how bad is it?
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i would be ok on rapid, stbfl, knock out and surge working with special attacks. more perk variety to choose on killer.
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i'd like to see window get nerfed to be only 16 meters but for survivor to gain UI in red where every time a pallet is dropped, the aura is shown for 5 seconds in red.
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gift of pain is thana perk as a hook perk. Thana is better off being an anti-heal perk that helps sloppy. The anti-gen aspect of the perk is good but it is ultimately too oppressive for casual dbd games.
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or just add self-care back into the perk. it will still be 32 second long as the boon does not grant raw healing speed. I probably wouldn't use it but at least it will feel less bad when your teammate brings the perk.
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current regression per kick is 5%, not 2.5%. 25% is probably too little. I would be suggesting 50%. The total gen charges is fine where it is at. The charges need to be large enough that the killer doesn't have ultra bad early game but not so much that generator feel like an eternity to finish.
The gen perks are in an ok spot. the problem in the killer meta is that the other perks that are not gen perks feel low impact. Right now the other perks barely feel like choices where is why large sum of killer players are default to gen perks because they actually do something. there is strictly a lack of creative freedom for killer to try different builds.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719798#Comment_3719798
I was reliably informed that comp games don't matter. The average player is going against nurses who are pretty terrible per the data she has one of the lowest (and often the lowest) kill rates in the game.
they only matter for survivor but do not matter for killer. //no survivor bias.
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The new killer haas two new items that hard-counter tunneling. The first is an item where you teleport into a locker to further locker and the other item makes you go into a locker then turn completely invisible with haste.
Imagine if these two items were perks that survivor could equip that do not cost health-states. They would be more effective then DS. You get hooked, the killer return the hook, you go into a locker, instant teleport or go invisible.
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@johntec said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720182#Comment_3720182
Again I disagree, and btw I played Knight quiet a bit now. If you use the add on which makes guards chase 4 seconds longer combined with the map of the realm add on and send an assassin, you'll either get a hit or a pallet very consistent. Remember, assassin is the only guard that has 110% movement speed, while carnivex has 103, so carnivex is the one who almost never catches up. Yes there can be a scenario where a gen is near a window leading to the assassin not getting the hit, but usually that's not the case. And again, Jailor is not used for chase but for scouting and patroling
yeah i play knight like this as well. Assassin his best guard so it would be good buff for him where he can select what guard to use. People that use carnifex would have fast pallet break. Jailer knight players would have consistent haste and do that instant-drop knight play-style and The Assassin Knight players would be playing the game like a ranged spirit.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719621#Comment_3719621
Agreed. I'd use it if it revealed totems but not as it is now. Maps are increasingly barren with alot less clutter and a good enough view that I don't need to know if the killer is within 18m of me. Chances are I can see that or hear the terror radius. Plunderers is better for chests, and I'd rather bring Deja Vu or a map for gens.
yeah i'd use it as well. could be decent for overzealous build. bad perk rn.
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i find it surprising that near sight reveals the killer but does not reveal totems. If it revealed totems, it might be a decent perk for totem cleansing.
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@CarlAlc7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719187#Comment_3719187
I'm pretty sure these buffs only happened cause of the power creep I mentioned.
no. she had add-on reliance problems like many of the killer changed in that patch. She needed a bit of a glow-up.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719221#Comment_3719221
I agree she is significantly stronger on those indoor maps but I think you exaggerate to what degree. You make it sound completely unfair and almost an auto loss for the survivors. I think it's much harder but still very manageable if they aren't bad. I haven't had issues managing it myself as survivor. I feel like this is like saying how strong stealth killers can be and how long of a win streak you can go on them if you spam indoor map offerings every game that completely alter how weak they normally are. However this said, I'm not opposed to weakening her in this area if in turn we're also fixing her second issue. What would you be suggesting to fix this map issue?
"The second issue is that the killer has no ability to influence the
strength of the counter item. The item is too strong on a multitude of
maps because it turns off the ability for little to no opportunity cost."I agree with this. She has very little control over them removing Condemn and there's no downside for tapes. At the bare minimum I think Ring Drawing should be base kit but I'd personally prefer hits destroying tapes again as it rewards me outplaying them as a basic m1 killer where they have the advantage. They don't even have to return the Condemn gain at destroying it by hit, just make it destroy it so they have to get another. We're you thinking the same as me or did you have a different idea here?
"The third issue is that layout of each ability for killer is not evenly distributed in power."
The vast majority of the killer roster doesn't fit this criteria.
"Her stealth is mediocre. her anti-loop is non-extent vs good teams. Her
condemn is SWF bully bait material. Her TV teleporting is good if it can
be used but tapes shut it off on outdoor maps."I agree.
"An ideal killer power should be
→Fair on all maps
→Equally power in all distribution of power(With add-on to reinforce a particular strength)
→The power should have fair counter-play that the survivor can min-max to
nully the effectiveness but the killer should be able to
outskill/outplay their counter if they play well. "I mean by these standards the majority of killers fail in design. Many killers aren't fair for one side or the other depending on the map. Mostly killers have specialties while being very weak in other areas. very few killers have their powers equally distributed. Many killers have too much counter play with little they can counter in return. I'm not saying your design criteria for a good killer is bad, I'm just saying that the majority of killers fail if these are the aspects we're judging them by so it might not be exactly fair to judge her so harshly by said criteria.
You make it sound completely unfair and almost an auto loss for the survivors.
I don't think it is auto-loss but it is definitely auto-mori. The ability to auto-mori /= the ability to auto-win. The killer still has to put the survivor in the dying state. As we know Gideon is safe pallet city so it is not that easy. On elementary school, it is more common as the loops are not as potent.
What would you be suggesting to fix this map issue?
They did fix the issue in the 2.0. They made condemn global making it equally powerful.
A possible middle ground is TV condemn to only work on radius of the TV similar to skull merchant drones. The TV would have a very faint red outline indicating the condemn distance that does not go through floors. I would also remove the TV aura's as a trade off.
Survivors inside the red lines take 1 condemn stack, survivor outside take 0.33-0.5 stacks. I am not sure how DBD does with decimals, but 0.33 x3 = 1 condemn stack. With this change, This gives a little more power on worse maps but still preserves some relevancy in funneling survivors into TV's.
At the bare minimum I think Ring Drawing should be base kit but I'd personally prefer hits destroying tapes again as it rewards me outplaying them as a basic m1 killer where they have the advantage.
the tapes in old system was genius system that punished survivors for misplaying the chase and rewarded the killer to ascend the curse. The main issue right now with TV's is the ability to turn them entirely off for 70 seconds. For swf, you can't teleport anywhere when most TV are turned off. In my opinion, this was one of the issues in 2.0 Sadako as well. I think the TV turning off should be reduced to like 30 seconds.
Tape breaking should probably return but perhaps it should be a bit less rewarding such as 1 condemn stack for tape break. I also would not mind for tapes to return back to making you immune to TV TP. With 1 second tape insertions which can be done inside chase, tape breaking cannot be that over-tuned.
I do not want condemn to be extremely overpowered or over dominate in her kit but I would like it to be more usable vs the very best survivors. with current iteration, i don't think i will ever be condemned on the average survivor sided map. I see that as a problem.
I mean by these standards the majority of killers fail in design. Many killers aren't fair for one side or the other depending on the map. Mostly killers have specialties while being very weak in other areas. very few killers have their powers equally distributed. Many killers have too much counter play with little they can counter in return. I'm not saying your design criteria for a good killer is bad, I'm just saying that the majority of killers fail if these are the aspects we're judging them by so it might not be exactly fair to judge her so harshly by said criteria.
Depends the killer. Lots of killer are not balanced in the sense of being equally distributed in power. The killer that are balanced do follow that criteria for the most part very closely. The killer are not meant to 100% be fair in every single situation. what is important is that they're fair in like 60% of the situations where both sides can show skill/interaction. the other 40% is often decided on circumstance where it skews survivor or killer.