Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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maybe if they buff aura reading duration to like 25 seconds, I could see a use case for survivors bodyblocking with health-states to wall-hack the killer at loops like shack.
current wall-hack duration is too low.
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@Langweilig said:
I doubt maps will get any better. All recent map reworks and new ones clearly favored killers and they will continue to do so as long as enough people play survivor.
Even as killer main I dislike the direction of maps, especially when you can see all four walls, because the map is so small.
maps being smaller is their solution to immobile killers. if maps are big, killer will 3 gen because map is too big to patrol. it also means that every gen that is too far away is free gen for survivor. big maps are also grant free wins for survivor if killer doesn't 3 gen and the last 2 gens are spread out. a skilled survivor team will always prioritize spreading gens out to maximize walking distance if they're efficient gen-rush team. this is also more common and more popular now made… by that Deja vu perk. Before deja vu, only extremely skilled survivor with perfect generator map location knowledge would prioritize the correct gens, now it is just standard with that perk.
In op screenshot, i don't see anything wrong. screen 2 has cowloop and screenshot 1 is a tile and tractor.
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@Nazzzak said:
That's what I like about it tbh. The real test of your game skills is in playing perkless, imo. And unlike in normal mode, where playing perkless could doom your team, this mode can make everyone else pretty much perkless with you lol I did get MFT+DH in a game yesterday though which was actually nice when a killer decided to tunnel me. So sometimes the game throws you a bone.
i almost don't feel ever perkless with survivor in the mode. yes you'll occasionally get stuff like Sprint burst+Dead hard with some dead perk here and there but you almost always get something that works or does something. i think it is mostly killer perk that end up being not very good. at least is that is my experience with the mode.
i do agree with OP. lots of perks in the game have little to no impact on final outcome of the match. that is random chaos shuffle i guess.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
Why are syringes, styptics and BNPs allowed in Chaos Shuffle?
This is just ridiculous, P100 survivors can have almost an infinite amount of them, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, it's nowhere to be compared with the strength that even the strongest killers' add-ons have.
The strongest survivors' items beat the best killers' add-ons by far, it's not even comparable.
Considering the killer might get no gens slowdown perks at all, killers are screwed if they don't play the top killers in S/A tier.
I think, to solve the problem, also the items and the killers' add-ons should be random.
Ideally also no map offerings…
that is because killers add-on constantly received nerfs like Pinky finger, Entire blight add-on list, Spirit add-on list, Nurses add-on list, etc.
In fact, i can't even remember last time killer have received a decent high impact add-on on a killer. Like i can't remember last time killer got a add-on that was "Pinky finger" powerful. I am scanning through my head for last like 10 killer and i can't think of a single very powerful add-on.
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808770#Comment_3808770
that's part of the point of Chaos Shuffle. - Heck, I got No Mither with heal-yourself-perks. Inner Strength and a Boon. - There are so many perks that have anti-synergy it honestly wouldn't even make a difference if you get a random item with random add-ons and a killer gets random add-ons as well.
No mither is 1 perk out of 150+ perks. There is few things on survivor end that does not synergize because most of survivor perks are all positives. it is just matter of huge positives or small positives. How big the reward is in their perks. Killer on other hand has A LOT anti-perk synergy because a lot of the perk are based off another perk being used alongside it. Killer perk really don't work by themselves. that is why i said that chaos shuffle is killer with no perks because realistically, the perk don't do anything or have anti-synergy or are plain underpowered.
for example, i had monitor&abuse, distressing, fire-up and Hex:Haunted grounds. I don't need explain why this is useless. Monitor is mediocre perk on regular killers but with distressing, it is counter-productive. Fire-up does something but is underpowered beyond belief and hex:haunted grounds needs other hex synergy.
so you have
→anti-synergy
→perk does something but is useless/underpowered
→perk that needs synergy.
dbd killer perks 2024, blank perk slots.
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OR if all survivors are either dead, hooked or in the dying state, all survivors bleed out 300% faster
Toxic slugging in very end game should definitely be looked into. awhile back, they had a system called finisher mori that ended the match when all 4 survivor were slugged. the system was a bit too aggressive because it ended the match immediately but i think an EGC timer of 30 seconds would be good solution to ending games quicker when the match is clearly in killer overwhelming favor.
in term of early game and mid game slugging, i think these form of slugging are too weak and infrequent. it takes long too long to bleed out that in most cases, hooking same survivor 3 times is superior. While i don't think that slugging should straight up always be the better option over 3 hooking, it should a little faster and more practical to go from 4vs1 →3vs1 from slugging. it is little bit too weak. 4 minutes takes too long especially if killer downs survivor multiples times in a match.
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@WeirdHexButOk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808299#Comment_3808299
Except for the Cenobite.
cenobite can camp right now with engineer fang. you can injure someone from very long range actually, recover and m1. downed from heathy to injured. face-camp/proxy camping cenobite is very dangerous if he has engineer fang. it completely delete his actual 1vs1 chase potencial but camping is surely there. original pain doesn't allow you to prevent hook but you can tunnel through BT like no one cares.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Probably anything in A tier, but the "why" is important to consider too. I think the game needs way less M2 zoning killers if they're moving towards stink pallets on every map.
why? if every map is greenville squire, you have plenty of pallets to chain into one another making zoning less effective. if there very few pallets and the map is mostly open like Rotten field where it is giant dead-zone with super strong pallets on each corner, then zoning killer rain supreme because they only zone select few pallets and there is nowhere to switch loops which allows for guaranteed hits. Since all the pallet are safe, like all 10 of them let's say, it means that survivor can practically pre-drop all pallets and finish 4/5 or 5/5 gens because killer is just playing robot pallet break simulator.
======Answer to OPI would say that survivor answer to a killer that they enjoy playing vs is a killer that they perceived as strong but is simple in their mind to escape from. The killer answer is a killer they perceived can beat any level of survivor and is strong in their mind. I think there is a single killer that really encapsulate those two idea's. that killer is Oni. Many killer player rate Oni as very strong killer power such that they can beat any team with it and many survivor player rate perceived strong killer that is difficult to escape vs but in their mind, they escape fairely against him making him somewhat of push-over. that is ideal killer. a killer that survivor can shrug off as push-over that is easy too escape from but that killer believe is powerful.
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@sluc16 said:
I feel the devs have completely abandoned legion. I love the killer but his power is so weak, I mean the counter is to just run in the opposite direction or stay on a pallet.
Is really sad to get the first hit during frenzy and that's it, no more hits cause everyone else was too far or just immediately started running away, and the one add on that increases frenzy time makes you run slower.
Is either run for longer but slower, or run for a small time and apply some status effects if you do get multiple hits.
Plus the power recharges so slowly, I mean, you got killers with powerful abilities like Wesker, nurse or Blight that get their powers back so fast, and yet legion's takes forever, it goes away if you miss a swing or hit an object and if survivors are not close together you don't really get much value.
I see killers that didn't even need changes like huntress and doctor get their little buffs, and legion yet remains with one of the weakest powers in the game.
I'm sure there could be some tweaks to be done to the killer so you can get some more value from it but I really don't see that happening any time soon.
because a lot of legion's kit got nerfed a long time ago. he used to have very low power cooldown. i don't rememebr exact numbers but it was around 12-14 seconds. the next buff is allowing legion to feral frenzy deep wound the timer but putting some items/drawback that allows legion to miss/misplay. i imagine it is too difficult for them to continue to balance legion beyond what he is now. as a result, he has stayed the same.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807812#Comment_3807812
It takes Slinger 0.4 seconds to ADS and shoot his harpoon tho. Like the harpoon comes out instantly. It takes vecna 0.2 seconds to ready the spell and 0.5 seconds for the skeleton's hitbox to spawn. You also do not have to position yourself as Slinger the way you have to as Vecna which again eats at your time since you always have to maintain a 4 meter distance from the survivor if you wanna cast the skellies on them. And finally you cannot crouch Slinger's harpoon. You CAN insta crouch vecna's skellies after dropping a pallet. So no, i do not believe the Vecna player would be able to place the skeletons on reaction on a dropped pallet unless the survivor isn't paying attention. The only reason I made the comparison with slinger's ADS is because his ADS is still reactable at 0.4s.
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Vecna has 4 powers. 3 of which can be used in chase to great effect, especially with the changes I suggested. He does not need his 3 powers to be as spammable as the powers on killers that only have one power. 30 seconds should be more than enough if you know what you are doing._______________________________________________________________
It is my opinion, sure, and its also the opinion of like a billion people that have constantly stated that insta down addons are problematic. Literally all of this discussion is my opinion, but I am giving reasoning based on how it works to play Vecna in practice and what effects things have in how people play against him. I don't want Vecna to be hated and then neutered because his easy to hit sphere, that survivors do not see without Archivist items, can make people exposed. Its also entirely needless to make him busted with an Addon.I think a healthy design is when a killer has the possibility to have quick chases because the kit allows them, when used properly, to deal with survivor's counterplaying them. Insta down addons just remove half of a chase. It's way more skillful if you as the killer player prevent resets through macro gameplay, rather than just bustin out a png to cut chases in half.
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And lastly. Survivors do not have perfect reaction time. And if the Vecna player is good he'll try to spawn the skellies in your face every time. This spell is used short range. There is no "you should be able to go between them" at the range a good Vecna player uses them against you. This addon, as you describe it would make skellies almost uncounterable for NO reason. Not to mention it will deny vaults and pallet drops without any need for skillful play from the Vecna. You won't have to time the spell, because survivors won't be able to crouch them, and after a pallet drop they wont have enough time to move out of the way.The skeletons spawn so close together. In practice, it is impossible to dodge between them at close range, which is how any good Vecna player uses the skeletons. Not to mention that you'd make them inescapable after an unhook. You can already double tap people being unhooked. You'd just make it way easier and more consistent, again while lowering the skill requirement to do it.
Let us also not forget Ornate Horn, which spawns another skeleton and is basically the way people play with Iri book… Imagine having to try and move out of the way of 6 skeletons that go through walls, cannot be crouched, you have no idea where exactly the Vecna is placing them and at what angle, and you only have a teeny tiny split second to react to seeing them go through the wall, identify the angle they were shot at and where you are in relation to this cone and then move out of the way. I'm sorry, it think if the addon worked like this it'd be a silly addon that would be way too strong for no good reason.
It takes Slinger 0.4 seconds to ADS and shoot his harpoon tho. Like the harpoon comes out instantly. It takes vecna 0.2 seconds to ready the spell and 0.5 seconds for the skeleton's hitbox to spawn. You also do not have to position yourself as Slinger the way you have to as Vecna which again eats at your time since you always have to maintain a 4 meter distance from the survivor if you wanna cast the skellies on them. And finally you cannot crouch Slinger's harpoon. You CAN insta crouch vecna's skellies after dropping a pallet. So no, i do not believe the Vecna player would be able to place the skeletons on reaction on a dropped pallet unless the survivor isn't paying attention. The only reason I made the comparison with slinger's ADS is because his ADS is still reactable at 0.4s.
Because it is not 0.4s. 0.4 time it takes ready his ability. His spear has travel time which ranges anywhere between 0.1 and 0.6 second at max range. I am just going take a random value of 0.3 which is like 8 meters of distance. the spear doesn't hit you instantly. it is not hit scan. The thing is, slinger can hold his gun preemptively and fire on reaction but like i said, he's allow to do that to pallets because his ability cannot down.
You CAN insta crouch vecna's skellies after dropping a pallet. So no, i do not believe the Vecna player would be able to place the skeletons on reaction on a dropped pallet unless the survivor isn't paying attention.
You can drop the pallet and crouch skeletons CURRENTLY because the 0.5 second time for hitbox to spawn is same time as putting down a pallet. once it becomes less then 0.5 seconds, you can spawn skeletons on top of the survivor as they drop pallet and they cannot crouch because they're animation locked. Since skeleton is right on top of the survivor, there is no travel time unlike slinger that has slight travel time. You can do this with iri book add-on right now but because the add-on reduces skeleton by -3, you can't line up skeleton in like angular motion to spawn on the pallet drop. Spawn skeletons on the survivor during animation drops shouldn't be the gameplay for FOTD.
It is my opinion, sure, and its also the opinion of like a billion people that have constantly stated that insta down addons are problematic. Literally all of this discussion is my opinion, but I am giving reasoning based on how it works to play Vecna in practice and what effects things have in how people play against him. I don't want Vecna to be hated and then neutered because his easy to hit sphere, that survivors do not see without Archivist items, can make people exposed. Its also entirely needless to make him busted with an Addon.
I think a healthy design is when a killer has the possibility to have quick chases because the kit allows them, when used properly, to deal with survivor's counterplaying them. Insta down addons just remove half of a chase. It's way more skillful if you as the killer player prevent resets through macro gameplay, rather than just bustin out a png to cut chases in half.
The kit for killer only allows quick chases without instant down if killer is able to machine gun survivor or run anti-heal perk to prevent survivor from healing, Both of which were nerfed since stbfl has been nerfed and sloppy butcher has also been nerfed. These concept now are somewhat archaic so we just move more directly forms of quicker chases which is instant downs.
Vecna does have machine gun capacity with his fly. you can hit someone, then use fly to catch-up and i further boost this in his iri book where he is able to baby swing during fly cooldown if he lands directly ontop of the survivor.
And lastly. Survivors do not have perfect reaction time. And if the Vecna player is good he'll try to spawn the skellies in your face every time. This spell is used short range. There is no "you should be able to go between them" at the range a good Vecna player uses them against you. This addon, as you describe it would make skellies almost uncounterable for NO reason. Not to mention it will deny vaults and pallet drops without any need for skillful play from the Vecna. You won't have to time the spell, because survivors won't be able to crouch them, and after a pallet drop they wont have enough time to move out of the way.
The spawning skeletons on survivor only works right now BECAUSE of the 0.5 second spawn time for skeletons. if you read my add-on suggestion, i note that iri book new drawback is that it increases the time to spawn skeleton by 0.5 second for total 1 second spawn time. this gives ample time to not only move forward but also move diagonal to dodge skeletons. you simply need to know pattern of how skeleton spawn to be able dodge them. I think it would be more interesting if you had to predict where skeleton spawn but we have a magical item that shows where skeletons precisely spawn.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807576#Comment_3807576
Again we'd have a situation where every 60 seconds Vecna gets to insta down you for no reason. Dispelling sphere is so easy to hit on people mid chase. I genuinely do not think it should be a thing.
Iri book makes it so that you barely even have to time your skeletons on vaults or pallet drops because survivors will not be able to dodge them. It would be even worse if you just had the full 5 skeletons. It completely removes the timing component of the spell and just makes it waaay better while removing skill requirement. On pallet loops at a certain angle you can create undodgeable scenarios with it.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IESGSXHE3Y4D/image.png
Like in all of these situations his skeletons become 100% undodgeable. He just gets the hits for free if he has iri book without a penalty. And even with the penalty its way easier to get these kinds of hits. Like these are already hits you can get base kit, but it's on the survivor to react and couch, and if you position the skeletons right as Vecna they have to crouch for longer. It has a skill component from both sides, but in my opinion its a little bit too reactable, which its why i want the base changed to 0.4s instead of 0.5s. Making iri book have no downside would just give these to Vecna for free. You cannot walk out of the way of the skellies fast enough in any of these.
With 38 seconds, you have your spells up almost every chase start. If your cooldowns were to be 30 seconds you could use spells multiple times in one chase no problem. But you'd still be punished for misusing them. It would make his cooldown addons comfy but not necessary at all. I mentioned them as a cherry on top, but if they were cut in half or removed while making the base cooldown 30s, itd be totally fine. He does not need FoTD or Mage Hand to be 15 seconds.
Also I did not say the IRI addons should be base kit. You said you wanted his iri addons to be what made him balanced against higher skills survivors. I said I don't like locking up the ability to keep up with skillful players behind addons. 1. It just feels plain bad when you dont have the addons, you just go "oh well if i HAD the addons". 2. It creates a scenario where whenever you face a killer he always has X addons because they're the strongest addons. To me, ideally his kit would be high skill/high reward enough to play well against stronger survivors, and then addons can just change his playstyle with powerful effects and you'd be able to use a variety of them without feeling neutered. Like Vorpal Sword.
Vorpal Sword is a good addon at the moment, cuz it makes resetting under hook less efficient and it changes your playstyle around dropped pallets while not being busted. Well designed IRI. I would never say i NEED this against better survivors. Iri book also changes the way you play, but I explained already why I think it's unhealthy.
I do not think that a killer's power level at base should be so neutered that you cannot keep up with better opponents that you without them.survivors move at 4.0 m/s every second. a 1 second cast time flight of the damn allows you to move 4 meters in one direction or another. in practice, running forward and moving diagonal would make you move less distance, let's say it is 75% of distance which is 3 meters. You definitely should have enough time to go between skeletons. This version of ability arguably has more counter-play than you imagine. The knowledge+reaction check becomes more of a movement check where survivor needs to understand skeleton pattern. that is also what current version does but with 2 skeletons, it is somewhat too easy to recognize the pattern.
With 38 seconds, you have your spells up almost every chase start. If your cooldowns were to be 30 seconds you could use spells multiple times in one chase no problem. But you'd still be punished for misusing them. It would make his cooldown addons comfy but not necessary at all. I mentioned them as a cherry on top, but if they were cut in half or removed while making the base cooldown 30s, itd be totally fine. He does not need FoTD or Mage Hand to be 15 seconds.
His cooldowns are 30 seconds because many vecna players including myself use Ring of restoration and that green add-on that restore cooldown on m1 for his spells. Alternative play-styles are great but there is no reason to for meme play-styles that aren't effective. So in the end, stat-check add-on just end up being arguably his best add-on's. I am just making said add-on base-kit and i am buffing his mage hand and FOTD to be closer to other killer cooldowns for chase abilities. you can maybe argue 15 second is a bit too low so maybe 20 seconds would be better. I'd have to play vs it as survivor to see. 38 seconds is too high for sure.
Now let us talk about why 0.4 seconds is BAD idea for flight of the damned. So the reason why deathslinger has 0.4 second charge time on his gun or why he is allowed to have very short charge time below 0.5 is because his SPEAR cannot down survivors directly. The time it takes to put down a pallet as survivor is 0.5 seconds. that is why flight of the damn is 0.5 seconds because it is prevent Vecna from just holding his FOTD and pressing his skeletons exactly when survivor puts a pallet down. Yes killer can react to pallet drops. That is why skilled killer like me never get stunned by pallets UNLESS the power forces you to greed pallets like demogorgon's shred or billy's curving chainsaw which is easier now due to curve window being increased.
you would just have this image situation every time where if you drop a pallet, you get hit by skeletons on reaction like how deathslinger can shoot his harpoon gun during pallet animation drop for free injure.
Again we'd have a situation where every 60 seconds Vecna gets to insta down you for no reason. Dispelling sphere is so easy to hit on people mid chase. I genuinely do not think it should be a thing.
That is your opinion. i think it would propel vecna to have quicker downs vs gen-rushing swf's and make dispelling sphere more useful then just throwaway detection spell that is generally spammed mindlessly with no rhyme or reason.
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when mage hand is used on a pallet, you cannot vault. what is happening is that you queue vault but killer used mage hand at the same time. the server backtracks event and you get m1 hit. your internet/connection to the server is not good. it is ping issue/networking issue.
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@SolidRazo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807435#Comment_3807435
explain how stalking a survivor debuffs them without add ons
I feel like you fail consider that ghost faces power isn’t exactly supernatural it needs to make sense
How does the killer slow down the survivors by just staring at them and then make them impaired for the duration of the expose
This isn’t even incorporating perks and add ons that add to these incredibly high numbers.
You’re suggestion is cheap and sure makes him stronger but in a unhealthy way and would make ghost face hated and cheap to play againstrarely do i think about lore in dbd. ghostface is a character with knife. he doesn't have any special power and strangely enough, he's probably one of weakest killer in dbd lore as far as killer go. You have god type entities killer in dbd like Sadako, Freddy, Pyramid head and than you get a guy with a knife.
The way i view his mark is that his mark makes victims terrified allowing him to 1 shot his victims in a single hit. kinda like stabbing a knife through their heart because they are so terrified that they cannot defend themselves or move. 10% hindered would further exemplify the terror of the mark as their leg are petrified to run away from him.
While marked, survivors are less certain of their surroundings and have larger anxiety when attempting to repair gens. -25% repair bonus would express this. In term of gameplay, this would give ghostface some much needed 4vs1 map presence as it would allow ghostface to pressure survivors on gens. For example, if you mark two survivors, you can mark one, survivor down them and than other survivor suffers -repair bonus as you pick the survivor downed and put them on the hook. Your other mark is not wasted.
You’re suggestion is cheap and sure makes him stronger but in a unhealthy way and would make ghost face hated and cheap to play against
I am accounting add-ons. he would get massive speed boost increase with drop-leg and hindered allowing him to gap-close his prey fairely quickly. Philly would stack with leaning change and allow marking to occur in 1.6 seconds instead of 2 seconds. All this is account for. If you think these two add-on are too strong, then you can weaken them. e.g 5% haste and 10% stalking meter reduction. At the same time, i don't think ghostface would suddenly be S-tier killer where he is like better than billy or whatever killer is consider strong.
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@ForTheLolz1121 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806594#Comment_3806594
That's Iridescent Umbrella Badge. I'm talking about the Iri that gives zombies a big boost of speed when a gen is completed, though I do like your idea of Nemesis whip insta downing survivors if a zombie hits them.
zombie speed add-on makes little sense. i think zombies just need huge base-kit m/s buff and detection range buff. zombies should be buffed to 4.0 m/s alongside the yellow detection add-on being base-kit. the yellow add-on should increases zombie m/s by 0.1. the purple increases it by 0.2 and the iri increases it to 0.4 for 60 seconds.
i don't really consider zombies as anything useful in current kit. i just use green add-on to kill them for free undetectable. they have no use case other than that. I usually green add-on+licker togue. these add-on work for me.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I'm not sure a DLC would come of it. Then again, D&D is here, so I may be wrong.
Darkest Dungeon feels more like it would be a great cosmetic opportunity! Some considerations on this:
- Haddie Kaur - Antiquarian
- Elodie Rakoto - Arbalest
- Sable Ward - Grave Robber
- Meg Thomas - Hellion
- David King - Highwayman
- Vittorio Toscano - Houndmaster
- Mikaela Reid - Musketeer
And, as for the Killers:
- The Dredge - Thing From The Stars
- The Nurse - Cultist Acolyte
- The Hag - Ghoul
- The Deathslinger - Brigand Hunter
- The Oni - Swine Prince
- The Unknown - Drowned Thrall
- The Doctor - The Collector
i think they're more likely to have cross over at some point. when i first read news, i was wonder if shambler could be a killer in dbd and highwayman as survivor as he is protag in dd1.
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@RFSa09 said:
he got updated 1 chapter ago! check it out :)
he is still has problems. he is asking when next update for knight.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807427#Comment_3807427
Vecna is weak against survivors who are paying attention, and his difficulty lies mostly in that he is a knowledge check. In pubs he is mostly okay. But I dont want him necessarily to be balanced against swfs. i want his kit to be usable against survivors who know what they're doing. Like I said, if they dont change him at all it'd be okay. But if they wanna make him stronger against better survivors, I propose the changes mentioned.
I think 30 seconds for all spells is enough. Especially if you keep Ring of Spellstoring. That'd make it 26 seconds, and if you keep Pearl of Power that's -5s every time you M1. This is more than enough to have consistent spells in chases.
I personally want changes to his base kit. Changing addons is absolutely lame and its a reason I detest the addon system. It neuters the killers base kit on account of a thing you may or may not have. If you go against good survivors without the addon that allows you to go against them it feels awful. So I disagree. Base kit changes are what should be done. There should never be the "use this against good survivors" addons. This is poor design in my opinion.
The changes I proposed only affect survivors that know his counterplay and only make his counterplay a little harder. It will do nothing to the survivors who already don't know what to do against him, except maybe the change to FoTD, but let me repeat that 0.4 seconds is the time deathslinger takes to ready his gun, which is plenty reactable. And this is after the spell is cast, which already takes 0.2 seconds to ready. So it'd be a total of 0.6 s instead of 0.7s.
I vehemently disagree that the negative effect of Iri Book should be removed. That would make 2 tapping with this spell ridiculously consistent and way too easy to do. If you're on the other side of a loop you're guaranteed to hit the survivor with it if you have 5 skeletons. Removing the crouch option for survivors is an unhealthy effect for the addon, the only thing that tries to balance it is the negative effect. This addon is ill conceived.
Exposed addons are unhealthy in my opinion and what you say about dispelling sphere would be kinda bonkers. You could just pop the sphere on a survivor, get the exposed, the survivor is exposed for 30 seconds, has 8 seconds of peace and then gets exposed again. This would probably make survivors hate him for all the worst reasons.
Vorpal sword serves a niche that I don't want to remove from the players that enjoy it. It can be used to deny a survivor a pallet for 3 seconds while the hand breaks it. That's a lot of time to prevent a survivor from vaulting a pallet and it can get you some nasty hits. This addon is absolutely fine as it is.Exposed addons are unhealthy in my opinion and what you say about dispelling sphere would be kinda bonkers. You could just pop the sphere on a survivor, get the exposed, the survivor is exposed for 30 seconds, has 8 seconds of peace and then gets exposed again. This would probably make survivors hate him for all the worst reasons.
oh thanks for catching that out. it was something that was in the back of my mind but i forgot to write it down.
Vorpal sword has new negative. it increases cooldown of dispelling sphere by 30 seconds for a total of 60 seconds. so no, there is no permanent exposed. that would be too evil. haha.
I vehemently disagree that the negative effect of Iri Book should be removed. That would make 2 tapping with this spell ridiculously consistent and way too easy to do. If you're on the other side of a loop you're guaranteed to hit the survivor with it if you have 5 skeletons. Removing the crouch option for survivors is an unhealthy effect for the addon, the only thing that tries to balance it is the negative effect. This addon is ill conceived.
I don't agree. i think current version of the power is reaction check+knowledge check rather then movement skill-check. I want to change nature of add-on to be reliant on survivors moving out of the way between skeletons so there is more skill then pressing crouch for 0.1 seconds. strangely enough, a lot of survivor pre-crouch allowing you to gain distance with vecna instead of crouching at exact point to lose least distance, so you end up getting hits with his skeletons purely off m1 over m2 itself.
I think 30 seconds for all spells is enough. Especially if you keep Ring of Spellstoring. That'd make it 26 seconds, and if you keep Pearl of Power that's -5s every time you M1. This is more than enough to have consistent spells in chases.
I personally want changes to his base kit. Changing addons is absolutely lame and its a reason I detest the addon system. It neuters the killers base kit on account of a thing you may or may not have. If you go against good survivors without the addon that allows you to go against them it feels awful. So I disagree. Base kit changes are what should be done. There should never be the "use this against good survivors" addons. This is poor design in my opinion.
Your first paragraph is exact problem i am trying avoid. your describing the killer having to use add-on's to keep lowering cooldown of his spells. that is why i said that instead of add-on's doing that, it should just be base-kit that his mage hand is 15 second and that his flight of the damn is 15 seconds. he would always have a loop power available to him or almost always.
So I disagree. Base kit changes are what should be done. There should never be the "use this against good survivors" addons. This is poor design in my opinion.
why? if you made iri book and vorpal sword just base-kit to the killer, the killer would be too strong for new-average players. If add-on end up being too strong, they don't need touch vecna base-kit, only nerf add-on's likely to what they are now.
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@Disco said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807395#Comment_3807395
Yep that's why i'm gonna use them. No point using exhaustion perks, windows or any chase perks when the killers don't chase me anyway. Let me run prove thyself, resilience, deja vu and Bardic when I unlock it so I can tunnel those gens and get to another match where a killer might chase me.
i mostly have same play-style where i don't get chased often enough so i just run everything to punish killer for not focusing me.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807435#Comment_3807435
The only nerf i mentioned is his ability 99 survivors. Every other changes is buffs
99% is core part of ghostface identity and 99% properly is skill in itself.
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ghostface does not need nerf. i think there 3 changes that could be given to ghostface to make him better at base-kit.
- When a survivor is marked, they suffer a 10% hindered status effect for 5 seconds. The goal is to give ghostface a major burst of speed to get first hit when he successfully marks.
- When a survivor is fully marked, they suffer 25% action speed decrease towards repairing generators. This rewards ghostface for leaving chases if he does not successfully down the survivor in the burst of speed. Current ghostface has time-sink to mark survivors but does not have incentive to leave survivor creating sunk cost fallacy to his power where he feels obligated to keep chasing the survivor even if the chase is not favorable for him with the mark. Also his mark does not have any effect when a survivor is injured. This grants mark the ability to have an effect when survivor is injured.
- Increased Stalking action speed when leaning from 200% to 250%. This reduces stalking time when leaning to 2 seconds from 2.5 seconds allowing ghostface to have greater chance to mark survivors when leaning.
Here is TL:DR.
- Increased Stalking action speed when leaning from 200% to 250%.
- Marked survivors suffer a 25% action speed repair.
- When a survivor is fully marked, They suffer 10% hindered status effect for first 5 seconds.
All add-on remain unchanged.
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i think that chase spells should have different cooldown from mobility and detection spell. Mage hand and FOTD should be 15 second cooldown and dispelling sphere and fly should have 30 second cooldown. With 38 second cooldown on both his chase tools, he gets over-punished for failing his ability.
balance-wise on his spells at base-kit, he is fine for everything except highly killed survivors/4 man swf. if i was to buff him for 4 man swf level, I'd only buff his iri add-on's.
Iridescent book has 2 effects and one negative. I have two problems with add-on. the first is that the negative is not necessary and makes the spell harder to use. the second is that fly blocking windows is underwhelming for the spell as an upgrade.
- What i would do for the fly spell is make it so that when you are in cooldown, you can m1 lunge with fly within cooldown. This would allow vecna to fly, land and then m1 directly after landing.
- The second is removed the -3 skeleton negative from the add-on and instead increase skeleton spawn-rate by 0.25 seconds. Hopefully longer spawn time will allow survivor to go between skeletons as they run forward.
Vorpal sword. also has 2 effects . The broken effect for dispelling sphere is too weak and too low duration and pallet break effect is only useful if it is used like a block pallet vault effect. I have two goals for this add-on. the first is to increase potency of dispelling sphere while reducing the reward. The second is to add higher skill-expression in using Mage hand when equipping vorpal blade for the killer.
- I would like introduce new negative for dispelling sphere debuff. Instead of disabling items for 60 seconds, the duration is reduced to 30 seconds and exposed status effect is applied for 30 seconds. 30 second is reasonable amount of time to outlast effect.
- I would to suggest a rework to Vorpal blade's effect. The add-on changes Mage hand to Curse hand. When the pallet is dropped with curse hand active on the pallet, the pallet explodes like freddy fake pallet. If Curse hand is used on a fully dropped pallet, it still takes 4 seconds to break. This would give more experienced vecna player the opportunity to cast cursed hand as survivor drops the pallet and gain more reward for predicting the pallet drop.
Judging from BVHR kill-rates and win-rate on this killer, it is unlikely they will buff Vecna for 4 man SWF. he is very strong in average soloq matches as shown by the stats. it is as they say, not every killer needs super strong. i am happy with Vecna how he is currently. He is able to perform well with minimal add-on investment. Upgrading him further would likely make him too strong for average player vsing him.
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@BugReporterOnly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807394#Comment_3807394
It is done when on death hook and he chased me to get it it is in fact a problem because this shouldn't be allowed to happen. He did it twice in one match.
but on death hook, it doesn't matter because him picking you up already triggered decisive strike.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Does it really matter if he's letting you wiggle out anyway? That's basically him giving up a hook just to get you tormented.
it is often worth it to run ebony mori for pyramid head so you can just cage →proxy camp, down the survivor after cage unhook, put them on a hook, and than freely tunnel the survivor out. ph is one of the best users of ebony mori offering however this will be removed very shortly as ebony mori will no longer allow killer to mori survivors.
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@Crowman said:
PH is wasting time forcing you to not only wiggle out, but also getting stunned and possibly having to engage in a whole another chase again just for the Mori.
Also the Mori only happens when you are on death hook.
Ultimately this is hardly an actual issue.
it is return on investment. it is like taking early decisive strike so you can tunnel easier. OP complaining about tunneling again.
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@Disco said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807349#Comment_3807349
Yes looks like Deja Vu & Resilience is back on the menu
personal repair speed perks punish killer for not focusing you down. the opposite of chase perks and anti-tunnel perks which rely on killer focusing to be relevant.
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weak killer with low potencial vs 4 man swf.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800545#Comment_3800545
What? It still does not state any thing about "break action" in Spirit Fury at least not on the one you gave as example or in the game description that is the word to word same. "Break" and "Break action" is not the same thing. Break action is specific action killer has to do himself where he does some kind of animation to break the pallet usually a kick and Spirit Fury does not demand you to use that one specifically to break the pallet. You can use it or any other method to break pallets like the Vecna's add-on you yourself mentioned.
because it doesn't make grammatical sense to say "After you break action 4/3/2 pallets" for spirit fury. The break action is understood to be any action that breaks a pallet, the killer suffers 50% hindered penalty for 4 seconds. All the break trigger action perks are very simple and straight forward. The entire point of chemical trap is counter killer that break pallets and zone….. LIKE knight… Like Vecna… Like nemesis… etc. etc.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807019#Comment_3807019
Most of these looping spots are just glorified 50/50s. They can look cool because sometimes he happens to win them several times in a row. But even his example clips you can see he's getting hit several times. There are stronger places to loop on each of these maps, recommending that to new players is questionable at best, if not misleading.
The Dead Dawg spot in particular is ridiculous., It's way too long to work, the killer will catch you with bloodlust even if you make the window. I can't think an "experienced" player can suggest this and think it genuinely works. I've played killer for more than 1000 hours and I don't think I've seen even one survivor try to loop it in this specific pattern, it's just absurd.
Also no offense to Tatorhead but if you watch his actual gameplay on stream he is not the incredibly good looper that the titles of his videos seem to imply. Just like the majority of these god survivor Youtubers, in reality he escapes less than 50% of his games.
the whole point of the loop is to loop till killer get bloodlust 1/2 then drop shack pallet. that is how looping works. i wouldn't call any of these loop 50/50. this is just hold-w and understanding how to chain windows….
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807076#Comment_3807076
My understanding of Op's question was if a good player was using the killer lol
my answer was Chucky with my second choice being nurse.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807007#Comment_3807007
All of this is untrue. Survivors are more reliant on perks than a killer. Killers can and will camp tunnel in this match and guess what? Survivors are unlikely to have any defense against that. Regardless of perks a killer has their power and add-ons to fall back on.
what do you mean camp and tunnel? the killer often has no gen defence to camp so the games are like speed-running games vs efficient teams. Surely my insidious perk is going carry the game.
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because he is suppose to be stealthy hunter….read his lore.
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@Sngfun said:
Good luck dealing with that art syle and implementing it in the game.
Chris is pretty good at drawing horror so we might get higher quality horror art.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807062#Comment_3807062
Lery is one of the easier ones actually, one map I actually like.
cause the loop is broken, yet for some reason, Lery has among highest kill-rates in the game. i don't even understand it. i think otz puts this map as one of most killer favored maps in the game in his map tier list.
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807011#Comment_3807011
Are they not dpi shifting? I find against good oni's it is basically impossible to loop at certain tiles thanks to that
to me, looping Oni is little bit like looping blight. there is specific Los tricks that you can use to create 50/50's and even if player knows 180 flick tech, a lot of them mess it up. i don't really find much challenge in playing vs Oni, somewhat very mediocre killer.
the only time i feel like Oni provides any challenge is when he proxy camp with his ability and like demon rushes around hooks and like slug unhookers before you can unhook. they buffed hook timer from 60 →70 second so it is probably easier to defeat these type of Oni player's. Other than that, i feel like every game i play vs Oni is like 3 man out.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807019#Comment_3807019
id argue that Anti loop in killer design is almost a requirement do to how strong looping is and since Devs can't balance multiple maps an update
it is required in the design but honestly, against some of these loops, if survivor knows what they're doing, your not really catching them like Lery loop. the good news is, a lot of people don't play survivor well. Like how many people actually know how to run Lery's window loops? You know?
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@Brimp said:
Looping is still very much still a thing. Just people are so used to strong pallets killers can do nothing about other than break them that when they get nerfed a little they lose all ability to run it. A bunch of main buildings already have cut and dry loops that are strong like the entire realm of crotuss prenn, dead dawg, lerys main area etc.
If you are struggling a lot with looping I would suggest looking up Mr Tatorhead which makes incredible guides on how to run tiles.I agree. looping is still super common and super strong despite all anti-loop killers. OP just needs to look up guides if he thinks looping doesn't exist. Tatorhead makes a ton of looping guides for survivor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTL6WIKvgZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoJTN7XgXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxWZMrymm2U&t=622s -
Nurse or Chucky. I find one-trick chucky player to be hardest to loop.
@TheArbiter said:
If you count powers, then blood fury Oni
idk, i feel like any time i play vs Oni, the player isn't very good at using demon dash. Like they usually just lose their entire ability power for chasing me. so I find him easy to loop.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806914#Comment_3806914
"the survivor side almost always better perks."
Nonsense. It is random.
it is random perk that are skewed in survivors favor. i still think the mode as playing adept killer or killer with irrelevant perks. basically just hard-mode killer. survivor don't really need perk and lot of their perk stand out on their own.
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@Philscooper said:
since the update,
it feels like he can spam tentecle every secound even if he misses or uses a pallet
i dont know why, i cant handle him basically spamming that ######### so much
i know this is probably a skill issue but at the same time i never had this problem before the buff
why is he all of a sudden so god damn oppresive?
even gunslinger and executioner have a very noticable cooldown
yet he feels like huntress 2.0 which makes me feel miserable playing against unless its the obvious bot nemesis
worst part that his tentecle is ping-reliant, so you know people with mcdonalds wifi love abusing him now besides huntress and gunslinger.
and yes, i know im not supposed to get the dream match or easy match every game,
but christ man. i legit cant handle a decent nemy now and its so frustrating asflikely because better player are now playing nemesis that previously didn't consider playing nemesis because he was garbage. they also buffed his cooldown to 2.25 seconds allowing him to recover quicker.
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Chaos shuffle for me is playing perkless with garbage perk that do nothing as killer and survivor using perks that i rarely play against but end up making the match harder.
@Aven_Fallen said:
It can happen that the other side has good Perks and you, yourself, have bad Perks. This is the result when it is random.
But most of the time both sides will have pretty random Perks which might not work together or are just not good. But you focus on rare instances so that you can complain. Yikes.
the survivor side almost always better perks. Like what i am suppose to do with insidious, Hex:two can play, Undone and Spirit fury. these are just pointless perks that do nothing. spirit fury, you use it and the survivor get to another loop anyway. Undone is pointless. insidious is irrelevant for 7 years. hex:two can play is pointless hex. why is it even a hex, this perk could be base-kit and it would do nothing.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806685#Comment_3806685
Certain killers don't care about movement speed, your as likely to be sniped by that huntress if she's moving at x or y speed if she can see you and mobility ones would laugh at it. Meanwhile looking at the pallet longer gives a longer to break line of sight because they're looking at the pallet.
which is why a stun at the end with flashbang would be better. at same time, hindered isn't too bad vs ranged because you can line of sight the killer easier in theory.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806656#Comment_3806656
Chemical trap doesn't make the pallet take longer to break, it slows down the killer if they break it
that is the same thing in a nutshell. it is not like your going to be doing anything productive as killer when your suffering -50% hindered effect. they could easily just made you get stunned like decisive strike for x seconds or even reduce pallet break speed by -50%. there is many ways implement a particular effect. they choose hindered route.
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@SomethingChill said:
Thrill of the hunt is basically the only common Hex perk killers start with, which I find incredibly dumb. Ruin has also been toned down "recently", so it's not at all problematic of a perk. With the removal of Surge from the common killer perk pool, killers have no slowdown perks without unlocking a character first.
My petition is to swap the places of Ruin and Thrill, so that Ruin becomes a common perk and Thrill becomes a teachable for Hag. This way killers have a common Hex that does something, a common slowdown perk that isn't ridiculous, and Thrill isn't uselessly waiting for you to unlock Hag.
As compensation, I think Ruin should be reverted back to it's previous version: After a survivor is killed, the perk de-activates. This is brilliant design and teaches killers early on to not tunnel. (I think more perks should work like this, for example Pain resonance)
Let me know what you think!
a new player doesn't need slowdown perks because survivor they play against ARE NOT efficient. you can 4k at 5 gen left against these teams. that is why bvhr doesn't put bother to put strong killer perk in free section.
they used to have sloppy butcher and noed and these two perk were some of most noob-stomping perk in the game. one of them made it so that killer got free exposed nearly on the team because -healing penalty for mangled was severe for new player and other one gives free exposed+haste to the killer for losing.
you can still build an early noob-stomping build if you want, you just buy artist for hex:pentimento and you buy pinhead for hex:plaything. you get pain res+grim embrace+hex:plaything+hex:penti in 2 killers. there is your newbie stomping build.
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@UndeddJester said:
Alright, so it's an interesting idea, but thus far this appears to be a straight up nerf to killers and a flat buff across the board to survivors… Any trade offs for survivors? Maybe dropping one causes exhaustion? Can't be picked up by AMN?
Also seems the likes of Nemesis, Alien, Pyramid Head, Nurse, Dracula don't care anywhere near as much since they can hit over pallets, but this hits Bubba, Hillbilly and Blight far more.
Also seems to hurt m1 killers more than m2 killers, since m1 killers tend to have to swing for hits to force pallets to be thrown, and now they are punished even harder by a stronger stun for doing so.
Do you have any thoughts on how m1 killers level the playing other than running Enduring and Spirit Fury constantly?
Do you have any thoughts on how m1 killers level the playing other than running Enduring and Spirit Fury constantly?
Hahaha. They don't play around it. their already weak chase just get weaker.
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@Pokino said:
We all know that on the vast majority of maps, there are pallets that are absurdly unsafe, and that are almost more of a hindrance than anything else, where even with a stun, survivors often can't even go very far. That's why I propose a new feature for DBD: heavy pallets.
These pallets are somewhat special that differentiates them from the ones we have now.
- First, they have a metallic appearance, not so much wood like the current ones. When they break, the sound would be different too.
- Second, they replace these unsafe pallets that are on most maps. There doesn't need to be many of them, maybe two on the whole map is enough.
But the biggest differences are gameplay-wise.
- These pallets, in case of stunning the killer, being "heavy", provide him with a 50% greater stun.
- Also, these pallets cannot be broken by the killer's power (hillbilly chainsaw, Demogorgon dash...), they can only be broken by kicking them.
- Also, these pallets make the survivor slide better when jumping over them, and give him a +20% jump speed.
With this we manage to give a special use to these pallets, which are still unsafe, but where we could see mind games and more interesting plays, since the killer will have to be more careful not to get hit, in addition to having to be more precise when hitting due to the greater speed when jumping over them. In addition, we would put more value on the "Enduring" perk, but above all we would enrich the gameplay of the game, which I consider is in need of new features.
already exists. the heavy pallet idea is a survivor perk called chemical trap. you put a trap on the pallet and that pallet takes longer break. it doesn't stun increase stun however. they do not increase vaulting speed, that is another perk called Finesses that Lara Croft has.
For some reason, knight's guard and vecna's add-on ignores the heavy pallet but it mostly works.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806487#Comment_3806487
I'm not saying they can't necessarily use their powers to tunnel because all killers can do that even if they refused to use their powers the entire match. I'm just making a comparison with other killers.
Dredge lockers become blocked around the hooked survivor.
Unknown and Xeno has a slowdown in teleportation after returning immediately to the unhook area.
Singularity takes too long to mark a survivor in the area of the hook.
It's like you said, these mechanics don't have much effect on these killers but they exist and if they have no purpose then why were they implemented?
It's like you said, these mechanics don't have much effect on these killers but they exist and if they have no purpose then why were they implemented?
Because for some reason, they thought that implementing specific killer power drawback was way to balance out camp and proxy camping balance.
they finally made a universal camping system. The AFC but currently it is very weak and only applies to killer that stay directly near the hook. they also implemented a global base-kit anti-tunnel system in the form of borrow time but it only works for 10 seconds which isn't good enough killer to stop tunneling.
all those killer systems can pretty much are just legacy systems at this point. they can pretty much be erased. The Light on modifier showcases what proper buffed version of AC and BT would look like. During the event, i didn't notice any camping and tunneling. there were some lighthearted attempts to tunnel but the killer quickly changed targets.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806606#Comment_3806606
Cause like i said survivors didnt know tapes actually help you not get condemn. Literally all you had to do was this hold tape let her chase you if she hits and teleport grab another tape. Repeat if she got you with condemn you can just walk for 30 seconds and remove it cause back then you can go to any tv to remove condemn. She had global condemn yes but survivors have so many counters but refuse to do them cause either they didnt know or refuse to it and just go next
i am just saying a killer that wasn't strong shouldn't get 6 nerfs to the ability. the amount of changes that she received was as if the killer was 5 blink nurse with ebony mori's.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806600#Comment_3806600
people are still saying onyro was strong
if she wasn't strong, why does she receive like 6 nerf's to condemn? surely, the character wouldn't need 6+ nerfs if it wasn't good.
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@7Write7 said:
I wonder how often players encounter with problem of non chase activation while survivor is founded especially when play The Shape (Myers) and his perks. Almost every time I close to survivor in hit range and following him 5+ more secs even on T2 the chase doesn't start at all, same on other killer especially with Myers perks. Is it an issue or made on purpose to nerf that perks?
Myer's stalking mechanic works like wraith and pig's crouch. they remove chase element build-up timer which is a timer that builds bloodlust and begin chases when survivor is in running state. If you want to end chase on purpose prematurely, you can use this mechanic to farm play with your food stacks on Myer's.
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i think this add-on is suppose to read. When you are in tier 3, your tentacle whip directly put the survivor into the dying state. the problem is that effect is too strong so they made it into an irrelevant exposed add-on.
A lighter version of the add-on could be that when a zombie hits a survivor, the next time they are hit by tentacle whip, it would put them into the dying state. Zombie hits are rare enough that i think you could put this as add-on without being overly complained about.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806385#Comment_3806385
I don't think anyone is surprised by that. Despite Hens not using it once, I see pop almost every match for this very reason. My question is more along the lines of why does the game have to remain this way, and is there anything we'd rather have instead.
with survivor's attitude towards killer perks, i don't think so. BVHR doesn't really buff bad perks into relevancy for killer so it matches. the few times they do, it is just accident and the perk is quickly deleted anyway. that is my thoughts on that.