Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Haddix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810988#Comment_3810988
i think that's solveable if they're just clientside or toggleable. that's halfway disappointing but readability is not an issue in that case and people are still happy.
"they're killer power but dev can give skins if killer controls said character directly" if you can source me I'll gladly accept what you're saying but as far as I have ever known, anything power related is off limits which is why we've never seen that before, still. as far as I am concerned, wolf is still subset as it requires power usage.
they don't count transformations as different entities. they only count different entities if it changes how POWER graphic specifically works. for example changing Knight's hand from green marker to red marker is no-no. they do not allow any graphic power changes.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Title…
Freddy keeps getting pushed back. This getting out of hand. He’s been long needing changes now. We are way overdue.He should be getting reworked asap sharp. On behalf of my friend General V - I’ll speak up on his behalf - because at this point is just disappointing to see your favorite killer being shoved to the back over and over. A licensed killer at that.
Nobody should have to wait 5 years (Now 6) for their favorite killer to get the necessary changes.Bhvr you’re talented! Let’s whip up something special for Freddy. At the very least give him some buffs until he gets his rework….
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RRMAAHN41DPM/img-3472.jpeg
they could easily like buff some numbers such as
-Dream world now gives -10% action speed penalty for repair and healing.
-increased freddy snare m/s when holding snares to 4.6 from 4.0.
-decreased generator teleport time from 5 → 3 seconds.
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@Oxah said:
As the title states, I believe that pallet saves needs to be perfectly timed and such a thing is so counter intuitive and 90% of the time the timing due to ping/ killer m1ing out of a pallet makes it really difficult. In a sense you ARE dropping a pallet on a killer as he is picking a survivor and it should have more time(not saying it needs to be dumbed down to the point that it's too easy). It would create more interaction between the killer and the survivors. As of now most just don't bother trying because of how difficult it is.
pallet saves have 0 counter-play in a lot of cases. it is only fair that they require most precision given how low their counter-play is.
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@Altan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811442#Comment_3811442
I did wraith adept first try having never played it
hag has one of strongest adept in the game. devour hope is game-winning perk and it is really easy to camp hexes with hag. It is almost like her… designed play-style. wait till you get to killer like freddy where both your perks and the killer sucks.
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@CammyChameleon said:
While Trickster/Xeno/Unknown/Artist/Nemesis all have a ranged ability and still work perfectly fine at being 115 killers without being to oppressive.
Hag lacks map mobility with the 110 that can't be made up with any dash ability like Chucky/Spirit or any zoning that huntress has.
Hag also then wastes even more time setting up than trapper because even he is 115 and still considered the weakest in the game.Her power also just feels horrible with the 110 aspect because when you TP to an activated trap you spend so so much time just catching up to get the hit after, even if you TP instantly you can't hit right away.
She has no reason to be 110, she has no dash ability/ranged zoning. And has the same trap style as 115 trapper.she should be 115% m/s but the reason why they won't put her as 115% m/s is Mint rag. Instant teleport on command. she is not popular killer so it is whatever but i feel like hag would be more popular if she was 4.6 m/s.
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@I_CAME said:
He has the same problem as Hillbilly where the killer can make a million mistakes and it doesn't matter. You can do everything right as survivor and he is immediately back on you after failing to use his abilities. It's bad game design and feels terrible to play against. Git gud only applies to survivors apparently. At the very least the bat form needs some kind of change.
what is the mistake? the killer using the ability? He is strong. Blight been doing catch-up gameplay for very long time. billy's rework with super low cooldown. they're weakening billy one because it is a bit too strong for billy given the… that you get free m1 as billy + he has instant downs if your out of position after missing so i think billy is a bit more understandable. dracula doesn't have instant downs.
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@UndeddJester said:
If you don't get at least one No Mither or Shattered Hope... are you playing Chaos Shuffle?
i got like 4 times last chaos shuffle. this time i got it 0 times. What i keep getting is stacking exhaustion perks. I keep getting builds like Balance landing+Lithe, Sprint burst+Dead hard, Overcome+Smash hit. I also got perks that i never really use but they do stuff. Like troubleshooter, Lucky star, fogwise, Dark sense.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811629#Comment_3811629
It's supposed to be a comeback mechanic, both the speed up on hook and the slow down on gen completion. They're aiming for the game not to tip too hard to one side or the other early on.
Whether or not it's properly tuned, I cannot say, but they seem to be open to mess up with the game mode, so most likely this is a temporary change that they will fine tune (or substitute) as the game mode gets more development time.
what is wrong with the game tipping in survivor favor or killer favor? that should be decided by how well each side plays…. not the game.
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811629#Comment_3811629
I also don't agree with their mentality. In my opinion, both sides can snowball pretty heavily and that is ok. However, when I did this post I tried to wear their shoes and adopt their way of thinking. In that way, they aim to make the survivor experience more "enjoyable", but such a feature it would do the total opposite because it would incentivize tunneling more than anything.
i agree. i think both sides can snowball pretty heavily and i found that to be the most interesting aspect of the game. i found that 2vs8 mode is strangely more balanced than 1vs4 mode because either side to could win and you never know what to expect.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811613#Comment_3811613
Most Clowns use haste these days I face, maybe surge/pain res also, but its usually chase perks with him where his strength lies anyways as it makes his tunneling easier.
Also regarding @Devil_hit11 it is really good, it just doesn't void pallets, which personally I'm getting tired of all S tiers basically being good coz they just ignore pallets one way or another, the main resource of chases.(that said clown isnt an S tier, more a comparison)
Until Solo Q and SWF disparity is brought closer together, we really shouldn't be tweaking killers to further stomp the casual playerbase. It will end up getting you nerfed anyways.
I'm going to agree to disagree, if you feel these buffs are valid whatever. But clown is miserable to play against with his current playstyle of tunneling, and I feel something with the base game needs to change first before we buff and encourage this playstyle even more.my build on clown is pain res, corrupt intervention, deadlock, grim embrace.
the 4 chase perk that are good on clown are rapid brutality+stbfl, coup the grace and disolution. the problem is that these perks aren't worth running because killer's base game-delay is crap. it is too easy to gen-rush a build like that.
I'd say at minimum, clown should always run corrupt+deadlock, it is literally his best two perks. you can run rapid+stbfl with it, it's alright. decent for hard-tunneling off-hook. you can run coup. that makes so you don't need break 99% of pallets and it is also good tunneling perk. Dissolution can be good. if you get a hit, survivor often panic drop vs clown and some pallets like… shack pallet often need to be kicked but with this perk, you can outplay some god pallets and avoid kick action in certain instances.
for me personally, i just take straight 4 gen defence route on him.
Until Solo Q and SWF disparity is brought closer together, we really shouldn't be tweaking killers to further stomp the casual playerbase. It will end up getting you nerfed anyways.
it isn't killers problem that soloq has poor healing efficiency or gen efficiency. you can't balance around people that play bad.
But clown is miserable to play against with his current playstyle of tunneling, and I feel something with the base game needs to change first before we buff and encourage this playstyle even more.
what do you expect? clown has no map mobility, no 4vs1 game-delay mechanic, no time-saving mechanics like instant down. the only way you pressure survivors is eliminating survivors quickly. He is like a nurse that is worse nurse and i know you'll be like…isn't every killer worse than nurse…. and you might be correct on that but i am saying this in literal sense.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811059#Comment_3811059
I don't think Clown is in a good spot if the Clown goat Arinad thinks DBD is in a terrible spot and barely plays DBD anymore. I've been watching his streams, and he barely streams nowadays and mostly plays Escape from Tarkov because he's sick of DBD's unfairness and unbalance. Though, he only thinks that way because he's playing one of the worst killers in the game. I would too if I mained Clown.
back before skull merchant got released, i used to play a lot of clown. i play some clown during events usually. He's not bad. I think his issue is that he rely on gen defence, stacking gen defence and tunneling to be viable. He doesn't down fast enough to not need to tunnel or use gen defence. it is sad but true.
Clown needs way better downing speed. his 1vs1 isn't good enough for the type archetype he is as a killer. Clown needs to be Chucky good. Nurse good in term of 1vs1. He is like dredge good in term of 1vs1 or Vecna good in term of 1vs1. that's alright but the thing is, dredge and Vecna have other abilities in their base-kit…. like map mobility which clown doesn't. Clown should be BETTER chase than these two killers than you'll see his stats improve. Right now he has equal chase.
the missing parts to make his chase good is what they nerfed. Pinky finger and purple tonic blinding effect, maybe 1 second extra for pink cloud duration.
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i don't get why killer is being punished for hooking survivors. shouldn't it be the survivor being punished for losing? Like shouldn't goal be to discourage tunneling and encourage killer to hook all 8 survivors? that design is literal opposite. your punished for engaging with entire team and encouraged to only engage with half the team. that is like same problem that 1vs4 mode has. that makes me laugh.
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@Massquwatt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811598#Comment_3811598
I don't really see that being practical in any way for the killer. Current Bloodlust 3 requires 35 seconds of not hitting, breaking or using powers in a chase to grant you +15% haste. What you're proposing is +25% after 60 seconds of not hitting, breaking or using powers. At that point you might as well scrap the bloodlust mechanic altogether because your proposed change serve no use in any situation aside from the killer hard tunnelling out a single survivor and even then they'll probably down before bloodlust even happens.
no i am proposing 60 seconds flat. you don't need to be in the chase for this timer to tick. if you don't hit anyone within 60 seconds. you get bloodlust. bloodlust is 25% haste.
I don't really see that being practical in any way for the killer.
The point is that bloodlust is not suppose to be practical. it is suppose to be impractical and occur very rarely. Like it should occur only if there are infinities or busted setups that spawn such as….. Shack window facing a jungle gym window or 2 T-L walls facing each other which at this point, if the mechanic is triggering, we should be asking whether that setup/loop is balanced or not.
Strangely enough, i think the mechanic would occur very often in dbd survivor vs killer 1vs1's.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811059#Comment_3811059
Pinky finger was nerfed due to his camp potential it was not nerfed unfairly, clowns would get a free hit at any hook it took no skill at all.
As for OP Clowns 1v1 is fine, it needs no help, it's his 4v1 which is the issue right now, as is every low mobility killers issue. Also is that Nightlight… these aren't official stats right? These are select games giving only part of the picture, unless it is from BHVR themselves.yes it is sample size but it is only real clear-cut data that is exceptionally organized where reading numbers is easy. Like BVHR never tells us what all killer's kill-rate distributions are. they only give us kill-rate and only way to figure out what that means is by going nightlight, looking at killer with similar kill-rate and than just seeing that as other killer's stats.
As for OP Clowns 1v1 is fine, it needs no help, it's his 4v1 which is the issue right now, as is every low mobility killers issue.
that's the problem. clown's 1vs1 isn't suppose to be just "fine". it is suppose to be REALLY GOOD because it is only thing he is about. Clown's 1vs1 needs to be PINKY finger good. that is why i think his stats didn't improve because he got nerfed but also buffed so it is net-0. revert nerfs so he has net positive and than his stats will be… net positive.
Pinky finger was nerfed due to his camp potential it was not nerfed unfairly,
What about other killers with base-kit instant downs…. Like billy, Myer's, Oni, Plague? Like why is clown of all killer's being targeted for camping with instant down when most of those other killer do it base-kit and are stronger at camping. like what.
It was nerfed unfairly. there is 0 reason for add-on to be nerfed. He wasn't over-performing at least statistically. His add-on got nerfed because of usual "Survivor main this is unfun, please nerf to ground bvhr", BVHR: ok.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810818#Comment_3810818
You can’t compare sadako’s condemned mechanic to dredge’s nightfall. Those are two completly different mechanics. The one only hinders/limits your view and the other lets you straight up getting morid. Therefore it is only logical that sadako’s condemned is more difficult to archive.
More ways of spreading condemned would be good, that’s why I want ring drawing back, passive condmend, condemned on hooking someone and the generator addon I suggested. I don’t want her condemned to be as oppressive and annoying like it was in her second version. There it was far too easy to get the condemned kills. In the past I mainly thought of the mechanic as a mechanic to discourage turning off TV’s like it was in her first version and then later as a optional mechanic (which I want it to be again) that if you play it well and skillfully you get your condemned kills. In her second version I would say it was neither of those. It was far too easy to get condemned kills (no real skill requirement) and it didn’t serve as don’t touch the TVs, which is my main complaint ever since the reworks, because it didn’t allow me to play her like I wanted to. Ever since the reworks if you didn’t play her in the condemned way you were just straight up troughing the game. I wish her condemned would be a difficult (not super difficult)/skill requiring/optional but manageable mechanic to archive and it being used as way of don’t turn off TVs again.
Ever since the reworks if you didn’t play her in the condemned way you were just straight up troughing the game. I wish her condemned would be a difficult (not super difficult)/skill requiring/optional but manageable mechanic to archive and it being used as way of don’t turn off TVs again.
the irony is that when i play sadako now, i don't even consider or think about condemn mechanic. it is complete after-thought. I am killing survivors much quicker by just ignoring killer power. that is why i find killer unfun to play. A killer power shouldn't be after thought. it should main focus……. of playing said killer. That is why i dislike playing her. I have better chances to mori survivors with pig boxes than this killer that is suppose be designed around mori's.
It was far too easy to get condemned kills (no real skill requirement)
Sure, a killer could be too easy to play because numbers are over-tuned or not balanced. Nerf numbers than. don't delete killer. Sadako feels deleted, not nerfed.
You can’t compare sadako’s condemned mechanic to dredge’s nightfall. Those are two completly different mechanics. The one only hinders/limits your view and the other lets you straight up getting morid. Therefore it is only logical that sadako’s condemned is more difficult to archive.
what makes you think that dredge's nightfall is not comparable? While yes, one mechanic is direct win condition, other killer powers are INDIRECT win conditions to them being successful. if direct win condition is impractical to acquire than it might as be irrelevant just like…. Dredge nightfall wouldn't have much of a reason to exist if only way to gain nightfall was to sit in a locker for 2 minutes. you can attribute that to any killer power.
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@Massquwatt said:
Bloodlust is pretty fine as is and serves its purpose.
Bloodlust 1 exists to help give you a leg up when a chase drags on.
Bloodlust 2 exists if you're committing to a losing chase.
Bloodlust 3 exists if you've already lost the chase.
I think it's the mindset that people need to understand, if a killer if getting to Bloodlust 3 to down you then you've already won the chase. It isn't about outrunning the killer, it's about how much time you buy your team and in that scenario you've bought your team A LOT of time. Also, given that a lot of killers these days rely on their powers to help in chase it's very rare that you'll see anything like BL2 or BL3 so you don't need to worry about that.
i think bloodlust 1 and 2 shouldn't exist. bloodlust 3 should exist but it should be like fixed amount of time it activates. for example if you didn't hit a survivor for 60 seconds, you get 25% haste bonus. if certain killer are too weak without bloodlust 1, they could buff their base m/s very slightly. like 118% m/s. it is already exists for hag waterlogged shoe, I cannot see harm in other killers acquiring that.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811067#Comment_3811067
To be frank it is a disadvantage if you're going to compare using them or not as those perks buy time. We're going to reiterate that it's not easy to do, but it's very much possible to win against efficient survivors without these.
I don't enjoy running gen defence on killers.
Then don't? You may or may not lose for a bit until you adapt but then you eventually get to the point above.
On average though, most...
Shall we repeat how killers are not reliant on slowdown? (can't speak for players, but the role isn't) It's a similar vein for survivors, they don't need to run those things to be effective, but it helps. If you think killers need more that's all well and good but we don't believe that killers need more regression.
To be frank it is a disadvantage if you're going to compare using them or not as those perks buy time. We're going to reiterate that it's not easy to do, but it's very much possible to win against efficient survivors without these.
hmm. i don't think so. i think efficiency > beat all killers especially if survivor use their progression perks or items. even with best killers, i still think you'd be at 0 gens. those various type of gen delay still matter even if though they're omega nerfed. the other perks on killer just don't have much relevancy until killer's base-kit pressure is improved(for good teams).
Then don't? You may or may not lose for a bit until you adapt but then you eventually get to the point above.
The thing, i can win like 90% of the dbd teams with whatever perks barring like…. weak killers… because i think that even weak survivors can beat weak killers even if killer is better than they are. after all, it is balanced for "weak" survivors to win in that case. The survivor just has to be below my skill-level as killer.
So in practice, i can use a variety of perks and win most matches. it is the very few matches that i do lose in which i find that i am playing at a drawback for not using the game-delay perks. that is the part that doesn't feel great.
Shall we repeat how killers are not reliant on slowdown? (can't speak for players, but the role isn't) It's a similar vein for survivors, they don't need to run those things to be effective, but it helps. If you think killers need more that's all well and good but we don't believe that killers need more regression.
fair enough. i just don't think 400% slower regression (0.25 c/s) is rewarding for killer. i don't see any killer agree with your point of view that killer's gen-kick or game regression is satisfactory. if anything, Ardetha's video is how most experienced killer feel about the game.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810978#Comment_3810978
We understand the house of cards analogy but at the same time we're unsure how true that holds in this game. We've been able to get 3 out (usually swf but occasionally solo) every so often so long as everyone else is competent enough [maybe match making screwed up somewhere but this is a passing thought]. If nothing else we see it like janga with tunneling picking a block blind.
Everything both sides do is a calculated risk. For killer it is usually more punishing should they screw it up, but thats the game. Both sides taking risks to try and "win" [everyone's condition varies hence the quotes].
as a result, there is no full proof one size fits all that can be applied to every game.
Then tell us why you previously tried to apply math for this little show?:
as i said, math is that if you just co-op every gen for 52 seconds and killer downs every survivor in 45-60 seconds, 5 hook = 5 gens
either way, moving along
Sure, you can give every killer a mechanic where every time a survivor heals for 2 complete health-states, the killer can instant down a survivor by any mean. that is just weird though.
Shrug To each their own, we'd prefer weird and fun compared to same ol same old. The point is that it doesn't necessarily have to be regression or stalling the gens.
if a killer regression is increased and killers continue to use regression, they will have super game-delay. survivor can counter super-game delay with generator repair perks.
And what will everyone see each and every game? Survivors bringing gen repair perks each and every game, which in turn causes more killers to bring slowdown ad infimum. We used to see stacked slowdown after slowdown each and every game before we went asleep, when we woke up there was bloody variety on both sides, we dont want that changed. Also:
Do you think a killer will ever dream to tunnel off-hook when the survivor is moving 10% faster for 60 seconds
quite frankly we've seen some try…they don't count for competent nor have any impact on our discussion but we're throwing that there…[also isn't it 30?]
You keep either removing or ignoring the human element to this. Ignoring the fact you keep insisting its mandatory, this hinges a lot on killers tunneling less. As long as it's perceived as the easiest path to bodies or salt, people will tunnel. We've seen people tunnel during the eruption era (and others have also claimed to see it during this time) where slowdowns were arguably the strongest (if not most annoying) and the killer was rewarded (while not basekit) greatly for doing well in chases (ignoring those that camped a handful of gens). This is an extreme example but it is proof to us that people will tunnel should they wish, regardless of regression. While it currently isn't as extreme as that example and we can not speak for everyone, to us killers are rewarded enough atm and don't need more.
You keep either removing or ignoring the human element to this. Ignoring the fact you keep insisting its mandatory,
it feels like your at major disadvantage for not using game-delay perks as killer. the game shouldn't feel like you need a particular perk to be successful. I don't enjoy running gen defence on killers. i rather run perks that are fun to use and have wide variety of choices and play-styles for how i play killers. the issue is that it is not viable enough to do that as killer currently. It is way better than before the 80 second gens, at least early game is but gens still feel too fast for killer when your ending chases rapidly vs efficient teams.
On average though, most teams are not very efficient so winning games on average is easy if your an experienced killer with decent killer. the game only feels skewed towards survivor if survivor team plays very efficiently and is good at the game. some killer will steriotype and say that "SWF is imbalanced" and what not but i think survivor is ok in balance. it is just that killer base-kit/base game could be improved a little bit such that killer is less reliant on perks. I think some survivor also feel the same for like…. anti-tunnel perks/exhaustion or like aura perks for soloq. I am pretty sure survivors also would like to be less reliant on specific perks as well.
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i don't like it for few reasons. the first one is i dislike that bloodlust forces you to drop pallets, it justify god loops an god pallets being in the game which are not healthy mechanics. the second reason i dislike it is that it punishes survivor for greeding, aka if your good at survivor, bloodlust is actively detrimental to you but if your bad survivor than bloodlust has no impact. Being punished for being good is bad. Last reason is that I dislike that bloodlust is based off time. it makes gen defence == extra bloodlust time which promotes tunneling. a gameplay tactic that should not rewarded. the game should promote going after multiple survivors. not bloodlust 1 survivor to death.
bloodlust should be designed for like emergency situations for like infinity loop as last resort type mechanic. that is what mechanic was originally invented for.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810823#Comment_3810823
In 2vs8, 2 players are 25% of the team. It is far lower player investment. It is going to encourage tunneling.
When you ignore nuance it is 25% of the Survivors team… but you need to realize that there are 2 Killers in this gamemode for a reason? Like the gamemode does not stop everything because 1 player got a Flashlight save?
While this is occurring, the other Killer is still pressuring Survivors, getting chases, hits, and hooks, which overall can lead to an equal or close to equal % of Survivors being occupied.
On top of that, you dont start with a Flashlight or item in 2v8. You have to go out of your way to try and find one, meaning you have to waste more time compared to a normal match (where you can select it in the pre-game lobby).
Flashlight saves in 2v8 are not going to "encourage tunneling", I think this is fearmongering since tunneling happens regardless of the match state since getting players out makes matches easier and leads to wins.
flashlight item is wild card but pallet saves are possible from the start of the game. i just don't like the idea of killer needing EXTRA hooks on a mode where you require a lot of hooks to win in the first place. 24 hooks is enough hooks as is. killer don't need 30 hook requirement. Escapist has sprint burst and it applies to teammates so every player has background player base-kit for pallet saves.
I am not sure what they're doing with slugging but i believe that one special classes has unlimited unbreakable or is it that everyone has unlimited unbreakable instead of self-care. i am not sure but i think slugging is being punished or something along those lines. if this is the case, there could be situations were killer is in a lose/lose. lose/lose isn't fun.
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his base-kit is stronger then before but he received two nerf that really were not needed. the first nerf is pinky finger. Clown has no rewarding direct bottle hits and he is a killer that entirely rely on fast chases. Pinky finger was easily only add-on for clown to speed up his chases. It got nerfed unfairly. One way to buff clown is buff pinky finger to have -2 bottles instead of -5 bottles.
The other nerf that clown received was that his purple tonic bottles no longer impair vision. i am not sure in how many cases this came into play but the change unnecessary nerfed him.
A low performing killer should not receive any negative changes. they should only receive positive changes. So i would say buff pinky finger and buff his purple tonic back to what it was. I also think it would be a good idea to maybe increase duration of his pink tonic by +1 second so that the blinding effect lasts longer.
I don't think clown is as bad as he was base-kit wise as before. He feels a lot better to play at base-kit. I think his low kill-rate is by product of his complexity. Despite having simple kit, he is fairely difficult to play. He is not that easy to pick up and it is easy to throw a lot bottles and not get much value out of his kit. As a result, i think he is not a good killer for new players/intermediate killer players. He is a killer that requires you be a experienced killer to gain value from his kit.
Sure he could use maybe few tweaks but i would not consider as large priority.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810823#Comment_3810823
Did they say they were removing the cage mechanic & going back to regular hooks or something?
the jist is that you no longer kick survivors into cages, you pick up survivors and automatic use that event power where you auto hook survivors. survivor do not teleport to hooks, instead they teleport to cages. this allows survivor to flashlight save and pallet save other survivors. they're also changing the powers.
previously in old 2vs8, you used have ability to self-care on 2nd hook. that has been removed and is now class ability… likely the medic has this ability. I am not sure what abilities are but one of classes is going to be about saving teammates from killer, so you might see something like For the people+Buckle up as special ability for that class.
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@Haddix said:
I am beyond 100% sure this is how it works, I just want developer confirmation to cite for anyone that's confused as to how it works, just like the discourse about Victor skins back when Twins came out.
they're killer power but dev can give skins if killer controls said character directly. giving skin to wolf is same as giving skin to chucky.
what skin is talking about is giving sub-set killer powers for example giving skins to Knight's Carnifex, Assassin and Jailer. Giving skins to Victor. Giving skins to Nemesis's zombies. So far, BVHR is against giving skins to these type of killer powers because these type of skins are counted as graphic effect for killer powers. It is like giving clown Dark blue bottles and Red gas bottles as a skin. I think they're against it because it makes game less readable for newer players. A new player might not understand that red bottle = pink gas and dark blue bottle = yellow gas.
If you give victor a skin or you give Assassin a skin on knight, people might not understand that skin is assassin or that skin is victor. it creates readability issues.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810923#Comment_3810923
you just need be efficient on generators and survivor the minimum amount of time for each chase to succeed.
It might be your wording thats throwing us off but would that not be a survivor outplaying the killer? Cause really what else do you call that…
The variance killers provide varies on the player. There's no set level, some are able to provide enough to keep the survivors inefficient enough to win, others no. It's a human element in the mix on both sides.
The way killer currently deal with gen speeds is by tunneling.
Note that's how some (ok probably many) deal with it but how they deal with it doesn't translate as necessary and thats where we are arguing here. We don't need some in-depth tunnel definition as tunneling is not always efficient (ex: if you stay near a hook to tunnel survivors can do gens unimpeeded. The killer is being inefficient. ex2: If the killer is chasing someone across the map and drops that chase as soon as the unhook happens, but cant find the unhooked because they were smart enough to move first, then that's also the killer being inefficient. Ex3: trying to tunnel someone whos actually better than them).
If we are to promote killer to not tunnel survivors for pressure
This is a in general thing but we are genuinely curious as to why people think tunneling pressures the whole team. Until that survivor is dead, your only pressuring that sole survivor, anyone else in that crossfire is being inefficient (admittedly for a decent reason of trying to help a teammate). Every other survivor can pick and choose what gen to finish till the tunneled is dead.
If we are to promote killer to not tunnel survivors for pressure, the killer needs to have rewards and incentives to not tunnel and spread hooks at base-kit. this means that killer needs base-kit gen regression and game-delay rewards to not need these strategy to win.
Hate to break it to ya (ok not really) but those two things do not equal out. Specifically pointing at:
the killer needs to have rewards and incentives to not tunnel and spread hooks at base-kit
and
this means that killer needs base-kit gen regression and game-delay rewards to not need these strategy to win.
First, unless its borderline broken rewards or practically impossible to do, many killers will tunnel because its easy to do and often rewards them with dead survivors or salt depending on what that particular killer is in the mood for.
Second, rewards do not have to be regression or game-delay (though we wouldn't mind game-delay). Could be game speed up via something like everyones exposed. This is a literal split second thought, but hopefully the point stands.
that is why video is talking about the numbers and how these number should be improved to promote killer for playing in more interesting/engaging play-style.
We're going to repeat the following:
It takes 6 minutes basekit, but then you have many MANY killers stacking slowdown after regression after you, guessed it, more slowgresson. When the killer is efficient or better than the survivors, what happens when these slowdowns are added to the basekit?
this is a in general thing but we are genuinely curious as to why people think tunneling pressures the whole team. Until that survivor is dead, your only pressuring that sole survivor, anyone else in that crossfire is being inefficient (admittedly for a decent reason of trying to help a teammate). Every other survivor can pick and choose what gen to finish till the tunneled is dead.
I am going to use an analogy to explain this. DBD survivor teams for killer is like house of cards. Ever heard of the saying, 'A chain is as strong as its weakest link". if you pull the bottom card away from house of cards, the house of cards falls. that is what tunneling is in dbd. it is pulling the bottom card of the house so that house fall down. the house of cards being the survivor team in dbd. Not tunneling in dbd is like pulling top cards of house of cards. Eventually the house of cards fall down if you pull enough top cards but it is least efficient way to drop the house of cards.
a large part of killer is taking risks at the correct time and getting away with said risk. everything you do as killer is a risk that can backfire. as a result, there is no full proof one size fits all that can be applied to every game.
Second, rewards do not have to be regression or game-delay (though we wouldn't mind game-delay). Could be game speed up via something like everyones exposed. This is a literal split second thought, but hopefully the point stands.
Sure, you can give every killer a mechanic where every time a survivor heals for 2 complete health-states, the killer can instant down a survivor by any mean. that is just weird though.
We're going to repeat the following:
It takes 6 minutes basekit, but then you have many MANY killers stacking slowdown after regression after you, guessed it, more slowgresson. When the killer is efficient or better than the survivors, what happens when these slowdowns are added to the basekit?
if a killer regression is increased and killers continue to use regression, they will have super game-delay. survivor can counter super-game delay with generator repair perks. It is like asking, what happens if survivors receive borrow time after unhooking for 60 seconds and they use Lithe+Off the record+Decisive strike. The survivor gets super anti-tunneling if the killer tunnels off-hook. Do you think a killer will ever dream to tunnel off-hook when the survivor is moving 10% faster for 60 seconds and has all these extra form of protection? Survivor may still use anti-tunnel perks like Off the record to combat soft-tunneling. traditionally Distortion used to block aura reading for survivor to prevent them from being soft-tunneled out of the game but in just few days/weeks, Distortion will be nerfed and only form of aura immunity that is reliable long enough will be off the record. Survivors will continue to use exhaustion perks and decisive strike will still be decisive strike.
So the answer to your question is, the game plays as it does now with few modifications to the base game. Killer will have to hard-tunnel less and soft-tunnel more to win. they might one day nerf soft-tunneling however soft-tunneling might not get changed because less killer will see need to soft-tunnel if their regression/game delay is rewarding when the killer chases all 4 survivors and wins. the result is that killer impact on winning chases will have greater impact on survivor's ability to complete the objective then what it is currently. Survivors will need to play a lot better to escape.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810427#Comment_3810427
I literally never see resilience or finesse in my games anymore I have 6k hours.
resilience and finesse are said perks. they're just weak vault speed perks. 9% is too low of value. 20% is good value but cooldown+healthy is too high drawback. They should increase vault speed of resilience to 20% but all other action speed bonuses are halved. Finesse needs its cooldown removed. If you use both perk, you gain 20% vault speed both when injured and healthy.
BVHR is playing safe with these perks because they don't want to make another Made for this situation where the perk are overly popular and too strong. so we have these ultra safe value perks.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810868#Comment_3810868
Yes. The tombstone piece is stupid. It should be removed alonside a rework of Myers power.
I think, that if a specific aspect of a killer results in unhealthy gameplay then it should change yes. To negate the punishment of any mistake in chase is unhealthy for the overall gameplay experience. This is the same reason Xeno got nerfed. Although that came with a ton of other effects that left the killer in a buggy state.
A killer should be punished for misplays.
If you think that I'm on about the skill expression, you are absolutely wrong. I'm all for different kinds of skill expression, as I have proven time and time again with Pig and Sadako. I was also against the removal of Chucky's flicks.
This is not what this is about. This is about an easy to use - ability that makes many if not all mistakes a Dracula makes in chase matter very little. Not many other killers have such an ability. It's not good design in my opinion. Especially when it's a 3 in 1 power.
This is not what this is about. This is about an easy to use - ability that makes many if not all mistakes a Dracula makes in chase matter very little. Not many other killers have such an ability. It's not good design in my opinion. Especially when it's a 3 in 1 power.
that is your opinion. i think dracula's bat form is among highest skill abilities to use in the game because it is massively prone to error and outplay. in order to balance its high risk, it has low cooldown so that killer is not ultra punished for making an error in which they will make errors because it is a difficult ability to perfect if the survivor jukes and plays mindgames with it.
Yes. The tombstone piece is stupid. It should be removed alonside a rework of Myers power.
I think, that if a specific aspect of a killer results in unhealthy gameplay then it should change yes. To negate the punishment of any mistake in chase is unhealthy for the overall gameplay experience. This is the same reason Xeno got nerfed. Although that came with a ton of other effects that left the killer in a buggy state.
your missing my point. my point was that killer that do not have catch-up are weak killers. The only way for weaker killer to not have catch-up and be strong is to use GIMMICK strategies to win/be powerful. I am using Myer's as an example. Myers will NEVER get a teleport or catch-up mechanic. He is not designed to get this mechanic and as a result, he is weak in comparison to other killers when it comes 3 hooking survivors if survivor loops effectively. Here's the thing, You don't need to have a catch-up mechanic as a killer if you can instant mori survivors in 1 hook. Myer's is powerful when he is able to instant kill his opponent out of the game. This is gimmick play-style that player perceived as unfair/imbalanced but is only method for Myer's to be as viable as Nurse. this was my point. killer with less mechanics/functionality in their kit require lopsided mechanics to be a threat.
Moving back to Dracula, Dracula is well-rounded killer. His bat form is his most important asset. weakening bat form severely hampers his gameplay. If Nurse, Spirit, Chucky, Blight and Billy are not imbalanced killers, than Dracula is as balanced as they are. he should not get nerfed because you dislike playing vs him. His version of a similar but different gameplay loop displayed by other killers.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
He's decent with a decent amount of tools. He's pretty good at contesting hooks but that could always be adjusted.
I find it interesting that people have only realized the power of bat post buff...meanwhile I've always been playing Drac like this. Now that people aren't obsessing over Wolf form we can see what he's actually capable of.
i was using bat form for 80% of the games before, even when it has 5 second cooldown. it was just…. idk less rewarding. it is hard to describe.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810883#Comment_3810883
Omgs...against any group.
So what were getting ATM is that you don't want a comeback from survivors. You don't like how the game can switch from one side winning to the other (yes both sides can do this). That is what we got from this second paragraph. So we ask why not? It also semi proves that the math is never clean if things like that happen.
As we've said many times now, the killer themselves provide the variance to the time it takes survivors to do their objective. If the killer is pressuring them then the survivors will be taking longer. It's going in circles here.
We're pretty sure variance is not the best choice of words, "faster" seems accurate. This is just us being picky though.
survivor comeback should be in the form of looping and outplaying the killer in the chase. currently you do not need to outplay or loop the killer for any large particular amount of time to win. you just need be efficient on generators and survivor the minimum amount of time for each chase to succeed. as long as killer plays fairely and doesn't take shortcuts such as slugging, tunneling or camping, the survivor is likely to win.
as we've said many times now, the killer themselves provide the variance to the time it takes survivors to do their objective. If the killer is pressuring them then the survivors will be taking longer. It's going in circles here.
Killer do provide variance but variance is low impact. It is mostly on survivor to play inefficiently for the killer to be successful. The way killer currently deal with gen speeds is by tunneling. There are two forms of tunneling.
The first form of tunneling is called hard-tunneling. Hard-tunneling is when a killer finds a weak in a team and repetitively tunnels that survivor out of the game. Some player will say that this is least effective form of tunneling but it has some pros and cons for whether it is most effective or least effective way to play killer. Some of the pros are that you can ignore a lot of survivor perks playing this way but we should discuss the negatives. one such issue is that hard-tunneling leaves a lot of hook-states on the board and can be a poor choice if killer loses too many gens for that singular tunnel. Usually killer that employ strategy generally tend to Slug in end game because if you slug 3 remaining survivors, you can completely skip all remaining hook-states. So that is first school of playing killer efficiently. Killer player like this also tend to Slug survivor for pressure where they will leave survivors on the floor that are not hard-tunnel target.
The second school of thought for playing killer which some people argue is the most efficient way to play killer is method called Soft-tunneling. Soft-tunneling is when a killer picks two survivors and repetitively cycles hook on these two survivors. this method is often the most efficient way to play killer for some players because it also avoids all anti-tunnel perks while allowing killer to win in least amount of hooks which is 6(7) hooks. Like other strategy, it has some pros and it has some cons. The cons of this strategy tend to be that since killer is picking two survivors, other two survivor are free to push generators and play with super greed perks. this can heavily backfire if survivor has load out related to gen speed because you are ignoring 2 survivor completely in order to kill-rush other two survivors. Another pitfall of said strategy is bodyblocking and other forms of altruism such as hook-trading, hook sabotage, flashlight saves can delay kills when alternatively hooking the survivor. Stealth is another vulnerability. if you can't find two survivor your tunneling, you'll end up spreading hooks and playing right into survivors hands. there we have two schools of killer.
A lot of survivor player's find these strategies to be polarizing on the survivor end. They don't like playing vs killer that want to win the game. If we are to promote killer to not tunnel survivors for pressure, the killer needs to have rewards and incentives to not tunnel and spread hooks at base-kit. this means that killer needs base-kit gen regression and game-delay rewards to not need these strategy to win. Now whether these strategy should be nerfed remains a hot topic in dbd but one thing is for sure. almost every killer agrees that killer's base-kit game-delay is ineffective and not really useful. that is why video is talking about the numbers and how these number should be improved to promote killer for playing in more interesting/engaging play-style.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Getting Champion of Light in chaos shuffle made me realize it's the only survivor perk that requires you to use a certain item but doesn't give you any guaranteed way to actually get that item.
Unlike Residual Manifest and Scavenger which let you rummage for their associated items, Champion of Light has no such feature and it would be a simple but nice QoL addition.
i think it would be cool if champion of light activated a flashbang effect if you stun a killer after the killer recovery's from the pallet stun. it would allow the perk to function on its own. It would also be a decent indirect buff to Smash hit if used in synergy.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810841#Comment_3810841
Don't go sounding like your accusing us, your apparently the one who refuses to believe that the killer influences survivor efficiency and all that.
It takes 6 minutes basekit, but then you have many MANY killers stacking slowdown after regression after you, guessed it, more slowgresson. When the killer is efficient or better than the survivors, what happens when these slowdowns are added to the basekit?
Second, as many like us have stated, your goal is to kill survivors not gens. If you're harassing survivors, incapacitating them, yada yada it takes them longer to do gens meaning more time to keep that going.
As we've stated, we don't see either party changing their minds.
Killers don't need major buffs to base regression (atleast currently, depending on what goes through the last change list we might change our minds). While it's not easy, while it may not be fun, while whatever you want to believe, many killers can infact get by with the current base kick and regression that follows.
While it's not easy, while it may not be fun, while whatever you want to believe, many killers can infact get by with the current base kick and regression that follows.
Yeah vs bad/inefficient play.
It takes 6 minutes basekit, but then you have many MANY killers stacking slowdown after regression after you, guessed it, more slowgresson. When the killer is efficient or better than the survivors, what happens when these slowdowns are added to the basekit?
If the killer is dominating chase after chase… the game isn't suppose to be close. the killer is suppose to win. not get draws or losses as i refer to them or just barely win.
Second, as many like us have stated, your goal is to kill survivors not gens. If you're harassing survivors, incapacitating them, yada yada it takes them longer to do gens meaning more time to keep that going.
That is literally my post. If killer plays fairely, ends chases quickly, the survivor objective is faster than the killer. The time it takes to objective has low variance. Like the difference is winning game in 4 minutes if killer is afk standing still vs 6 minutes with killer applying pressure. the game needs more variance for killer.
that is also why killer often dislike gen speed perks because they add more variance to survivor's gen time. you know… like why does survivor need 3 minute gens when afk and 5 minute gens when 4 minute afk/6 minutes is already too fast. those speed perk are only balanced if killer has gen defence perks in which case survivor is using perks to counter killer perks which many killer dislike that part as well but that is another story.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810785#Comment_3810785
As I pointed out with the what, 5 examples, before, I have nothing against a catch up tool.
Its about HOW the catch up tool is implemented.
but you could say that about everything in the game.
I don't have a problem with strong killers, but it is how killer is strong. Let's use a stereotype
Michael Myer's purple tombstone add-on →Strong but unfair.
Blight: Strong but fair killer.
you don't like playing vs killer therefore killer needs nerfs. that is the logic your using. This is what this post was referencing " why nerf killer's skill expression? killer optimizes ability → survivor ask for nerf for killer playing well. :( ". It is like irrational.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810823#Comment_3810823
Read. OP is talking about the first version being survivor-sided, which had no chance of cages being failed.
But I will tag you as well when you are proven wrong.
i found the 2vs8 mode to be well-balanced in first iteration. I felt like both sides could steamroll their opponent if they played well. I think this iteration of the mode will be less balanced in favor of survivor.
There was still some outliers/minor balance problems in survivor classes…. like Medic and Engineer were not very good alongside trapper being somewhat weak but the mode was very playable and fair. these minor issues could easily be buffed/tweaked refined.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810146#Comment_3810146
I have had literal games as killer...
And we've had the opposite end where GF is getting downs and gens are not being done fast enough for them to get out. What your not getting is that there's many variable that affect survivor efficiency that the killer fights over. You keep saying that killer has no chance, yet they do. Heck if we can do it then those better than us definitely can, and we're not a particularly high bar to cross.
Killer can't be in two places at once. your either chasing survivor B or camping near survivor A.
You obviously haven't met Victor~
Jokes aside, the killer (bar the above) can't be in two places, but two survivors can be in one place. There's also the option of no ones being chased and survivors healing, a survivor being chased while near the gens, you breaking things to make that next chase shorter. It's not just a and b. We're also pretty sure your not supposed to wait and expect a survivor going to second stage, your supposed to be bringing harm to the other survivors, hence pressure them so they lose efficiency.
they can bodyblock save the hook and if you tunnel, you risk decisive strike, dead hard, sprint burst+blood rush.
Just for clarification, are they trying to gen rush or not as with this build gen rushing (by our definition and standards) is...not really happening.
as i said, math
And here's where we need to stop you. Clean math and numbers does not work in this game. How many variables are in a trial by default? How much RNG is here by default? How often do those clean numbers show themselves?
We can continue this song and dance if you want, but at this point we believe it would be pointless as neither you nor us seem like anyone will change their mind anytime soon.
i cannot really believe that we are arguing whether killer viability to slow the game down base-kit is valid or too weak. Just look video's math. It takes 6 minutes to regress a generator. it is laughably bad. you have to playing dbd matches that last 40 minutes for over-time regression to work. DBD isn't a 40 minute game. Only in dbd would we ever argue whether 6 minute regression is balanced…. /shrug. It is like arguing whether a 6 minute cooldown for pressing R skill in league of legends is balanced.
Previously, i was against buffing killer gen-regression because 3 gen could potentially be too strong. Well that potentially became a reality so much so that dev needed to change some base-kit rules of the game to fix this problem. Now that 3 gen are fair and balanced, Killer need MAJOR buffs to regression. 5% regression IS NOT enough. In practice, it would be nice if killer got rewarded for doing a variety of actions that rewarded spreading pressure and playing well as killer but before we even consider killer being rewarded in many ways to trigger regression, regression itself needs to be rewarding. it is not rewarding and i don't think many killer will agree that 4x slower regression is well-balanced.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
How can you call the mode survivor-sided when Survivors had 400% BP-Incentive (!!) and yet Killer queues were super long? They had to do something, since 2v8 was killing the queues, 400% was not enough to make enough Survivors play in the mode, yet it was enough to also ruin the queues for 1v4.
And in general it is good that Survivors have more in this mode than just doing Generators. The first version basically removed all Survivor-gameplay aside from Chases (which can easily be lost due to Killers teaming up) and doing Gens.
….. the killer has like 18+ hooks to get. You want 18+ chances for hooks to fail…. so instead of hooking 18 times, your going to be hooking 30 times. that is a large problem alongside fact that with 8 survivors, the opportunity cost for doing these activities is considerable smaller than 1vs4.
a flashlight save requires 1 player down and 1 player off-gens. that is 50% of the team. In 2vs8, 2 player is 25% of the team. It is far lower player investment. it is literally going encourage tunneling.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810714#Comment_3810714
Do you mean with a 0s cooldown she could just spam teleporting to the same TV underneath them until survivors have 7 stacks?
What do you think of giving each TV a 30s condemned cooldown, so this couldn’t happen? Then you could still tp to them, but you wouldn’t be able to abuse it.
i think the design is just extremely flawed. the tv are suppose to be supporting mechanic that gradually increases condemn. Right now it is only primary way to build condemn and it doesn't work. it is either too good or too useless.
Let me use an analogy for how bad the current design for sadako is. Let's take dredge nightfall. Dredge nightfall builds nightfall charges in VARIOUS ways. You can hit survivors, you can leave survivors injured, you can teleport, you can use your ability to gain burst charges, you can hook survivors. there are MANY WAYS to get nightfall charges. This is how Sadako USED TO BE. She used to have MANY WAYS to apply condemn stacks. She would gain condemn stacks by teleporting. She would gain stacks by injuring survivors with the tape. She would gain stacks for other survivors healing. She had multiple facets for express potency in her ability.
Let's imagine Dredge nightfall. Let's say we just removed ALL of his nightfall mechanics to gain nightfall charges and we only leave him with 1 mechanic gain nightfall. You can only gain nightfall by teleporting to a locker and standing in a locker. Do you know how unbelievably bad dredge nightfall if only way to gain nightfall was to stand in a locker? You would be standing in a locker for like 2 minutes straight just to get a single nightfall. that is how the depiction for what current Sadako condemn is. Condemn is huge sink with impractical time investment for the reward.
The entire killer is strip to bare bones and the entire killer needs an entire re-visit. number changes are not sufficient. killer needs redesign. I just want personal 2.0 revert with maybe few modifications or lower numbers but that is just me. Current Sadako for me is uninteresting. I rather just play pig at this point over play any matches with Sadako.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810708#Comment_3810708
I did state, that what i said was not about strenght or the other aspects of his power, did i? If not, then i say it again. I dont think Drac is too strong by any means. This is solely about Draculas transition into bat as a catch up - tool not offering any reward for the survivor.
This is not about the strenght of the killer, but the reception of the gameplay for the other side.
A survivor is also not winning the match with one good play and gaining distance. Killers have huge comeback tools as well. Just saying.
High level always is so funny to me. What is high level? Comp? Swf? 4 good solos?
Killer catch-up in my opinion is single most important ability for killer. I would almost define killer that are "S-tier" from not S-tier solely on catch-up. that is how important it is. I am not saying a killer cannot be high-tier/strong without catch-up but if they are strong without this ability, they tend to be exaggerate killers with exaggerated gameplay strategy that is often perceived as broken/unfair. What do i mean by that? Skull merchant is an example of exaggerated character that exceled at 3 gens. She was high-tier by from an exaggerated mechanic that wasn't typical strong stable killer kit. The perception of this strategy was well, you know… lets not talk about details about 50 minute comp matches. Weakening Dracula's bat form would nerf dracula to a much lower standing killer that is less fun to play for killer and a lot less engaging for survivor because the survivor can play in ways that is less engaging in chase.
I'm hoping he does not receive negative changes to bat form as we have not had such a complete killer for awhile now.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
They really had to go for adding all of the S tiers before anyone else, huh.
i think it is more meme/joke. those killer are s-tier in 1vs4 but i don't think they're S-tier in 2vs8 because every killer in 2vs8 can 2vs1 for the most part.
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810666#Comment_3810666
Thank you my friend. I wouldn't mind playing some Spirit.
Look like i'll playing deathslinger. I like playing supportive killers in the 2vs8 mode. one day they'll finally add Pig to the mode and i can support my teammate with traps. i wonder how good the mobility class for killer is going to be.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810725#Comment_3810725
This is exactly why I'm surprised they don't lean into doing more of them. What they do have you see around quite a bit. Shirtless David, Vittorio and Renato are all fairly common, the bra cosmetic from Sable, the yellow shorts for Thalita, the hooked on you huntress/spirit skins.
I'm honestly surprised they don't do more sexy outfits considering how good they must sell.well given that i play decent amount of killer… you get to see the most common/popular survivor outfits. I only play Nancy so i don't care for cosmetics. Ada has my favourite perk image in the game, Wiretap but forum hasn't updated icons to change Ada's portrait into wiretap portrait.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
Excluding Spirit I'd actually say DBD doesn't have all that many skimpy skins. There's some sexy skins here and there but not really all that many overly skimpy ones.
I actually think it's interesting DBD doesn't do more sexy outfits. Right now the most we get is some panty shots with the skirts, a few shirtless male skins and the occasional sorta swimsuit.DBD is very tame when it comes to that sort of stuff IMO.
i think dbd has variety of all different types of skins BUT skimpy skins are highly like…. how should i say? emphasized… popular put out in spotlight more than other skins.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810105#Comment_3810105
My goal with this post is that she gets some changes sooner than later.
How exactly would it make her even stronger than she currently is on those maps, when only one TV spreads condemned? The range would already be a lot smaller with only one TV spreading it and I don’t think a 4-8m buff would be anywhere near as problematic or significant as it would be with global condemned and all TVs.
0 cooldown tp+near 33% bigger radius+1 stack of condemn. Sadako needs total re-balancing. She needs to be weaker on double story maps and stronger in ALL other maps.
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810406#Comment_3810406
She’s not in a good spot. Her stealth is awful, her condemn is spammy and it’s boring, cursed tapes aren’t cursed and mean nothing. They can be held onto with no punishment. Tape interactions are the fastest killer interaction in the game all while sucking at chase as a killer.
her condemn is spammy and it’s boring, cursed tapes aren’t cursed and mean nothing.
On day 1 of her rework, i literally said 3.0 sadako is mindless spamming. people said that this version would take more skill to play and i said complete opposite that this version is low form of skill that Sadako has ever had.
She’s not in a good spot.
cursed tapes aren’t cursed and mean nothing. They can be held onto with no punishment. Tape interactions are the fastest killer interaction in the game all while sucking at chase as a killer.
said that on day 1. all changes for Sadako are pure-hand holding changes. the irony is that even with all hand-holding changes, people still manage to lose to this bad pure m1 killer with a teleport. The player that are bad didn't get better vs Sadako ability. they still just lose anyway. All it is now for killer is that killer is unfun to play. super annoying. ughhhh
One day she'll become good again? right?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810373#Comment_3810373
Good that you mention some examples.
- Billy: has to coonsider collision on maps when catching up. This is a huge difference to Dracula, who can ignore pallets and windows, noot to mention collision. This limits Billy in scenarios, where Dracula just doesnt care. Ever.
- Blight: lesser but still afflicted by collision. On toop of that, Blight has a cooldown on his power, giving the survivor down time between rushes. This is good design because a survivor will be able to make distance if they outplay the blights power.
- Spirit: its funny, that you mention addons. Dracula doesnt need addons to catch up in seconds. Spirit, similarly to Blight has a lenghty cooldown on her power that, again, gives the survivor downtime. On top of this, she also has to respect pallets and windows. She cant vault while phasing. Additionally, Spirit is a 4.4, leaving the survivor even more breathing room in between phases.
- Chucky: similar to Spirit, Chucky is also 4.4. Using his power to catch up is not really much of a problem, because if he does that, he has nothing when he catches up. This results in him having to chase as a 4.4 until he has his power again. If the survivor makes a good play or chucky makes a misplay, the survivor gains something. Chucky will either have to use his poower to catch up and then have no power for the immediate chase or catch up by himself with 4.4, giving the survivor distance as a reward.
- Nurse is the only one i agree with. I personally despise her design and am of the opinion, that she should receive a massive redesign to her entire power due to it being harmful to the balancing of the game.
Higher tier killers can be fun to face. Wesker, Blight and Oni are some of the killer I enjoy a lot more facing than Legion or Wraith. Its about how the power offers risk and reward to both sides in chase. Dracula has 3 powers. This makes him difficult to balance, because all 3 should not be as oppressive as the one power of one other killer. The transition to bat, as a catch up - tool, right now outperforms other killers by a mile. This is not only unfun to face due to the survivor not being rewarded for good gameplay in chase but also goes against the logic i stated earlier with the 3 powers in one.
It should change in my honest opinion. Everything else is absolutely fine.
His bat form is most important power for him to be an effective killer. Dracula also has drawback in his ability. For one, he can't see survivors in bat form and he has those bat-noises that make it harder to track survivors. A survivor is suppose to juke bat form and make it difficult for killer to track the survivor. It is really same logic as spirit. Bat form is also not that good at loops. His other two abilities are for loops and they have their separate balance.
This makes him difficult to balance, because all 3 should not be as oppressive as the one power of one other killer.
He isn't difficult to balance because while he has 3 separate abilities, he is only capable of using 1 ability at a time and each of the abilities are suppose to have distinct strength and weaknesses in every instance of time. Bat form is entirely designed around excelling at catching-up survivors inside chase and moving around the map to enter chases. the pre-buffed version was overly punished and somewhat weak for killer to use. His bat form seems fairely balanced to me. a killer that uses bat form correctly will reap rewards for using the ability correctly while a killer that misuses bat form or his other abilities will find the killer not very effective.
In my opinion, dracula is one of the most balanced killers that dbd has release in many chapters. The survivors have all the tools to succeed and loop dracula while killer has all the tools needed to outplay the survivor at every turn which is what a lot of other killer tend to lack.
The transition to bat, as a catch up - tool, right now outperforms other killers by a mile. This is not only unfun to face due to the survivor not being rewarded for good gameplay in chase but also goes against the logic i stated earlier with the 3 powers in one.
That is because other killer trash or overly punished by distance. if you ask me, the other killer need buffs to be at dracula's level but a lot of problems are fundamental to the games core. In my opinion, survivor shouldn't be rewarded massively for a single good play that wins them the entire match. they should need to outplay the killer multiple times over the course of a match to come out on top. Like I said with other killers, the top high-tier killer all are like that which is why they're high tier and more difficult to escape from than other killers. A lot of drawback you talk about are non-existent. Billy in current form has 0 cooldown and spams chainsaw 24/7 for even smallest amount of distance gain. Every loop is basically is curvable for the most part. Nurse you need to outplay multiple blinks to succeed vs her. the drawback you list for spirit and chucky make no sense. these two killer use their ability when they are in range of the survivor and both of these killer require you to outplay their respective abilities multiple times
Oni is example of a killer where he is way over punished for failing and somewhat punished for succeeding. While he has same properties as the above listed killers, his ability artificial has like 90 second cooldown. It is way too easy to outplay Oni even a single time and than he loses. It is why i think Oni is one of the most over-rated killers. it is not balanced for high-level. it is balanced for middle level.
Wesker loop balance is very sad. vs good players, his regular ability is just too slow. he only gains viability in outplaying survivor at loops when using a tech that…. honestly at some point will likely get fixed because dracula wolf and blight hug tech which were similar tech got fixed. this guy is just waiting his turn. As for his actual balance, i think his balance was oriented that when a survivor is fully infected, wesker has advantage in this chase but when a survivor is not infected, he has disadvantage in chase. Previously when tunneling survivor off-hook, he was extremely oppressive in the chase as his 8% hindered penalty was easy to acquire with red herb+video device by hitting BT and the odds that you would ever loop him was next to 0. Since than, they have nerfed his infection the ground. To put it bluntly, almost nobody gets infected fully vs his ability as long they hold vaccine bottle. due to his balance being based off infection being strong or weak, He is very mid-killer in my opinion. He is balanced for middle level. He was balanced for high-level before when infection was strong but it was too strong. Now it is too weak.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810173#Comment_3810173
It's just the transition into bat.
Everything else is fine in my opinion. Gaining distance in chase is the reward for a survivor. Regardless of what play you do against Dracula, due to the transition speed, you gain no distance.
I dint think this killer is too strong, especially when killers like Nurse are allowed to exist. I do think however, that this particular aspect makes him very unfun to face.
A game is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, people stop playing.
Regardless of what play you do against Dracula, due to the transition speed, you gain no distance.
guess what, all the top-tier are exactly the same. Just to give few examples, Billy chainsaw allows you to zoom at the survivor making you gain no distance. Blight's rushes make you gain almost no distance. Spirit's phase-walk with MDR makes you get almost no distance. Nurse and Chucky are examples with reliable gap-closes capable of hitting you between loops and within loops.
I do think however, that this particular aspect makes him very unfun to face.
It sounds like every top-tier killer is unfun to face.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810173#Comment_3810173
That's the thing though. It doesn't add much skill expression that you can basically spam the bat and it lowers his skill floor drastically because any number of mistakes barely matters thanks to the bat's ability to always catch up quickly.
That's the main issue I have with Dracula.
what do you mean number of mistakes barely matters? any extension of chase is good for survivor. Idk, before they buffed dracula, i was losing a lot of games with him. you'd get outplay once or twice and lose. in some ways, it was more punishing to use his ability than not use his ability in regards to bat form.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810190#Comment_3810190
Bad perk that is a staple in most doctor builds.
Also your suggestion is broken. Just no.
Right….
the perk has as much of kill-rate as running 4 empty perk slots.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810173#Comment_3810173
I'm a killer main who used his experience playing as the killer to inform his opinion on said killer. I really like Drac, he's one of my new favorite characters and it was my optimization of his abilities, more specifically Bat Form, that leads me to conclude his speed in it could use a minor nerf due to how quickly it lets you catch up to survivors after a hit.
I don't visit this site nearly as much as I used to, and a big part of that is because of how often arguments devolve into "survivor/killer main crying" nonesense. I've been playing this game for over 8 years now, I've watched and played thousands of hours of both sides, even if I do favor Killer, and I doubt I'm the only person like this.
When I was a middle schooler and these arguments were over whether Moris should let a killer ignore hooks or Keys let survivors ignore gens, I was happy to participate. This is my first year of college, and for a community that spent sooooo much time complaining about the possibilities of children storming this game and its servers, I genuinely feel as if most of the people here aren't anymore mature than the average highschool sophomore.
Wanting a 0.2 or 0.4 percent nerf to Bat Move speed doesn't make me an entitled survivor main who wants killer skill expression removed, and I wish this community could grow past some of these obnoxious mindsets that keep us all bickering over something we're all passionate about.
he's one of my favourite killers as well. i dislike following survivor arbitrary amount of time so i am fine with survivors gaining a low amount of time wasted.
If i was to nerf him, i'd nerf his face-camping with fire pillar but that is just me. in theory AC should be changed to address this issue but it is whatever for now.
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bad perk. the perk should do something inside killer tr. The perk has no tangible benefit as stand-alone perk.
an idea is to make the perk make survivor suffer a -3% hindered penalty when a survivor is in the killer terror radius when outside of a chase.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810157#Comment_3810157
I agree with this. Playing Drac is a lot of fun but I can't help but feel bad for survivors who make a ton of distance only to immediately lose it after swapping to Bat form.
why nerf killer's skill expression? killer optimizes ability → survivor ask for nerf for killer playing well. :(
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@Emeal said:
The problem with such a system, Survivors will try their best to weaponize such a system against the Killer.
We got basekit endurance for unhooks, but these days many Survivors try to take a hit for the unhooker instead of escaping.
so what. hit them and move on. the anti-tunnel system for BT is so weak that you can tunnel in a lot of cases. when they do light out buffs to BT and AC, then you can talk about the system.
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@OrangeBear said:
Blows my mind that chucky has a low kill rate. I find him pretty strong and easy
He's hard to master.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808921#Comment_3808921
Yea you cannot really block a gen for more than ~16 seconds + the 12 seconds on top, if you drop a Survivor you're just wasting your time, since that adds to their wiggle progress meaning less gen block time.
Well, unless you drop them, wait 12 seconds, pick them up again and drop them, rince and repeat, which would either result in the survivor escaping or in the Killer just loosing their time if not all gens are blocked haha.
the problem is that certain killer like me understand how much wiggle a survivor has. you can pick-up, carry survivor to the hook, drop them, pick them up and get a lot of blocking. i think reducing cooldown from 100 →30/25/20 would be alright.
if they want rework turbo buff it, they could make it that survivors suffer -60% penalty to repairing generators and their aura is revealed when repairing a generator while a killer has a survivor on their shoulder. that would be a meta perk. I'm sure some killer would think to run agitation+mad grit+iron grasp for memes and try to win as a joke build.
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no clue. Blight's hug tech and Wolf form hug tech have been fixed. there is two other tech that are still in the game.
Oni's 180 flick and wesker's hug tech. TBA when those get fixed. Oni's really going need some buffs though if they fix that. he'll be too weak. maybe top knot base-kit.