Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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will just be hex:pentimento food.
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players should stop using poorly designed as clickbait word towards mechanics they don't like. shoulder of burden removes the extreme time efficiency of killers that efficiently tunnel.
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@fussy said:
During last weeks I started to hear from my friends and A LOT of content creators who were attached to this character that he feels different now, after people realise how to play against him.
It was fun to read people put him in A tier on release, but I wonder how many people rate him way lower now than they did on release?
My opinion on him didn't change at all: he is very mid killer with ton of problems, his power is too clunky and unusable in half of the loops, it's really punishing to use on middle and long ranges (even if you hit it), infection timing is too short and it's too easy to remove for how much work you need to put to inflict it, his teleports exist only when survivors ignore them.
It's sad, because design wise Unknown easily is one of my favourite characters in the game, sometimes I play him only to listen his sounds.people overrated every single killer on release. like i'd see people rate houndmaster as A-tier or S-tier day 1. it is complete non-sense.
@Coffeecrashing said:
Unknown's biggest problem is that the "staring at the Unknown" mechanic doesn't actually require staring. Survivors can just quickly flick their camera towards the Unknown for very small periods of time, and they still get 100% non-stop revealing time, because the reveal buffer is super survivor sided. And if a survivor briefly sees the Unknown as it walks past a small hole in a wall, that still triggers the full reveal buffer's worth of time too.
This also means that the Unknown can't easily duck behind various objects while it is chasing a survivor, because the reveal buffer is so long that the survivor is still revealing the Unknown even when they can't see it.
The result is there is a lot of places where Unknown just can't use its UVX, because it can't realistically land a 2nd UVX shot before the survivor cleanses the 1st UVX.
i think it is more that weakness mechanic doesn't do anything for unknown. its straight drawback with no upsides. it is worse version than Trickster's blade knife decay. LOS LOS and you get free health state vs the power.
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the perk is still trash because it immediately got nerfed from the ptb.
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BVHR still thinks that the problem with the perk is the cooldown of closing chests. Maybe they'll figure out that the problem is the radius.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850894#Comment_3850894
Well, without perks or items to help deal with totems, then they become even more obnoxious to deal with. You could spend MINUTES just trying to find one or two totems. And I'm not even taking into account the time to cleanse them yet.
This is how DBD has always been. Both sides bring perks. Sometimes some perks are only useful against other perks. And sometimes those perks don't see any use because the other side hasn't brought the things they counter.
Consider this: If I bring a full build to counter Thrill and the killer has no hex totems, I've pretty much brought 0 perks. As a survivor, I get extremely little value from things like maps, detectives hunch, or counterforce.
But if the killer brings hex totems and I have the same build to counter them, the killer still gets value no matter what. This is absolutely guaranteed. Totems can still affect the match before they get cleansed. I can fail to cleanse the totems for one reason or another (being chased, interrupted by scream, etc). Or in the very worst case scenario, even if I manage to cleanse the totems, I've wasted oodles of time doing so, when I could have been doing gens instead.
People bring deadlock for instance, which blocks a gen for 20 seconds. You pretty much only get value out of this perk 4 times. 80 seconds of survivor time wasted. Now how much time does buffed thrill waste for survivors? See the problem?
no. i do not see the problem.
Consider this: If I bring a full build to counter Thrill and the killer has no hex totems, I've pretty much brought 0 perks. As a survivor, I get extremely little value from things like maps, detectives hunch, or counterforce.
an entire perk build? All you bring is detective hutch and green map with Crystal bead. you start the match by repairing a gen and after that, you can see all totems aura's on the map. I bet 99% of killer will not know where dull totems spawn. So if a killer is defending totems, they're often only defending hex totems but for how thrill works, cleansing dull totems dramatically weakens the perk slow speed. Assuming your teammates are a little bit aware, flashing the maps totem aura is enough to begin team-wide totem cleansing of the map.
cleansing totems is laughably easy. you delete an entire full killer perk load out for like…. 1/16th loadout.
Survivors rarely bring these perks. they don't really need to. a killer bringing full hex build has no gen defence or very bad gen defence. Ruin is pathetic as gen defence. good player just do gens quickly and leave. I am not sure what i am suppose to say towards this.
@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850932#Comment_3850932
This is why TotH needs slight toning down, and then perks that can help against it should be buffed - so it has counterplay with perks, but is still meaningful and not TOO oppressive if you don't bring anti-hex. It's the same reason why Buckle the People got nerfed, CoH got nerfed, Pain Res got nerfed, and Grim-Pop-DMS got nerfed - because when used in some combos it's too strong, and if the other side didn't bring anything to help with it then it becomes too tough to handle.
Let Killers have things, yes - TotH needed the buff, 10% was silly and not useful and we need more hex defense perks to make hexes more viable. BUT it still shouldn't be what it is now… 12% should be OK but not 14%.This is why TotH needs slight toning down, and then perks that can help against it should be buffed
buffed… the anti-totem perks are already effective. Thrill is not oppressive. it does not need toning down. I mean if the totems aren't easy enough for you to destroy with anti-totem perks equipped, i suppose you could buff them. maybe it will help casual players. I do not know what dev think about the perk. I see these complaints as something like freddy release nerfs where when freddy first came to the game, casual said he was overpowered and he got knee jerk nerfed. same thing for thrill. In some ways, perfect timing since Freddy is getting rework Soon Tm.
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it sounds like a killer that would indirect pseudo mori players. similar to 2.0 sadako, the amount of life that survivor would have would not be off condemn curse stacks but would directly be related to survivor's bleed out timer.
I particularly like the exposed aspect part of the ability where you earn expose hits by being successful with special ability. my only critic is that the power might need some map traversal in its ability. Looking at Oni and Twins, both of those killer have some faster movement speed and mobility in their kit so that they can more easily bounce from survivor to survivor. Maybe the Soul reaper can turn into Phantom ghost where you cannot attack, see survivors and you move faster(130% m/s), survivors that you attacked leave orbs on the floor in the Ghost world. you can teleport to the orbs and each time you pick up an orb, you gain a stack of rage. When the orb is picked up, the reaper exits the ghost world and ghost's world ability goes on cooldown. Say 25 seconds. there is say a max of 20 orbs in floor.
So as you hit & run people with special attack, you gain map mobility as the trial progresses. The ghost world would work similar to spirit phase-walk but it would have an unlimited duration.
The idea is cool but any time BVHR invents some slugging type killer, they put weird drawbacks on the killer…. like Victor being kidnap for 30 seconds or Oni loses -8 seconds of his power gauge every time he downs someone making the killer less fun :(
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850903#Comment_3850903
Sometimes, if you are "forced" to take a position that is "seemingly not defendable", you should reject that position
in my opinion, devour hope is fair perk to lose against even if it is not possible to cleanse. you might not agree that a perk that grants exposed and instant mori is fair and believe thrill is too strong but i do not share that opinion. as a result, I will not reject my position as I have defeats killers that have had devour hope active for the entire game.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851048#Comment_3851048
The perk buys 68 extra seconds of cleansing
If those 68 seconds couldn't be reset unless the killer walks over to you personally then it wouldn't matter
It used to be 34 seconds of of extra cleansing which in that state it was unusable compared to most other perks.
68s is a balanced value but the fact that it doesn't interact nicely with other perks and mechanics is why it is broken
but your using 3 perk to defend totems. undying, face and thrill. it is all your perk slots in 1 basket.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850894#Comment_3850894
Or are they just suppose to be cleansed every game?
Yes, hex perks have that drawback to be cleansed, they are balanced around the fact that they can be cleansed, because Devour Hope or Third Seal would be too strong without possibility to be cleansed 🙂
the perk is still possible to cleanse. cleansing every game shouldn't be a given every single game.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850701#Comment_3850701
Yeah... saying bamboozle is strong holds true for specific killer combos... Bamboozle is a good perk, and a very good perk on Bubba specifically... but it isn't a mandatory pick for every killer.
You cannot compare Bamboozle on Bubba to Eruption/CoB and Pain Res/Pop on every single killer regardless of playstyle... which is why I specifically highlighted those metas.
These new TotH Hex combos are nigh uncounterable if the killer doesn't pay attention on numerous killers: -
- Blight
- Spirit
- Wesker
- Knight
- Singularity
- Doctor
- Wraith
- Artist
- Pinhead
And outside of those, it can be almost or just as strong on numerous others.
I'm really not sure why you're trying to die on this hill so hard my guy. We've always debated each other quite productively, but on this one, it's obviously busted... and it is starting to feel like you're trying to keep nitpicking everything to undermine and distract from the arguments against it.
It looks a lot like deflection man, and while I'm not yet accusing you of it, if we keep getting bogged down in rather irrelevant details, it's gonna get increasingly more difficult to take you seriously on this issue.
sometimes, you have to take the opposite position that is unpopular and seemingly not defendable. i am not going to convince you that the perk is not busted/unfair but i will say that sometimes it's fair when killer gets value out of their perks.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850675#Comment_3850675
But hey, those are items and perks brought to "just counter" the nasty hex perks!
Also, when certain totems make you downable in one hit, make chase ten times harder, or otherwise make skillchecks impossible, they aren't exactly side objectives.. then they become a necessity to cleanse, but then usually by time you realize it's too late.
no they don't. they are not necessary to cleanse.
@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850675#Comment_3850675
totem placement will do exactly nothing vs a team that has maps or detective hutch.
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Yeah, survivors would have any value from items / perks.
Aren't they supposed to provide value?
Aren't they supposed to provide value?
what about killer perks? aren't they suppose to provide value? Or are they just suppose to be cleansed every game?
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@UndeddJester said:
Both as killer and survivor, I don't like it when any perk becomes so monumentally strong I basically have no reason not to take it. To defend perk combos such as this is missing the big picture and rather short sighted.
Let's think about the Pain: Res and Pop meta and the Eruption, CoB meta. Defending these kind of things is a self defeating stance to take... because these combos were so strong, everyone ran it, which meant all killers, including the weaker ones, maintained good kill rates despite the fact they were otherwise struggling to compete without them. What happens when we nerfnthem? Hey, loads of killers start getting basekit buffs and QoL improvements.
It's the same thing for the Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time and Dead Hard metas. Everyone runs them cause they are strong, and because of that, Survivors maintain good survival rates, even if at base there is something lacking for the survivor side, meaning anyone not playing those perks is at a disadvantage that stands a much lower chance of being noticed and fixed. What happens when we nerf them? The perk metas start to balanace out, and hey, a whole load of other perks start getting buffs because they are no longer a risk of pushing already broken perks over the top.
Any time you look at a perk and think "I value this perk/combo above any other peek/combo" it's a good sign the perk is unhealthy.
Any time you look at a perk and think "I value this perk/combo above any other peek/combo" it's a good sign the perk is unhealthy.
so i value bamboozle on leatherface because strong window loops make his power very time consuming. does that mean bamboozle is unhealthy? if you value a perk over another perk, it is often because that perk compensates weaknesses for that killer.
i have been playing a lot of knight recently with thrill and devour hope. i like the combo on him because i find knight's time to down very slow and i find his guards decent at chasing survivors away from totems. unhealthy or just compensating killer weaknesses+good power synergy?
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technically if all survivors not on hook have 1 hook state and the person on hook has 2. swap the hook state allows the killer to proxy camp and re-hook the other person into death hook.
the perk only allows you to spread hook state for first hook stage. for second stage, killers can proxy camp and tunnel survivor.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850512#Comment_3850512
Sorry? I was never part of that discussion. Don't act like I've been dodging or ignoring questions I haven't even been asked in the first place. Anyway…
I've said this in multiple places on other threads, but the REAL problem with totems is their placement. 90% of the time they're just out in the open, very easily visible as you are running across the map. 60% of the time, feels like they're RIGHT next to a gen. Can't tell you how many times I have ran a hex totem only to find it near a generator in plain sight.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM. We need better hiding spots for totems, and we need more of them.
Fiddling with the numbers on perks only does so much, but in this case, I'm afraid "toning down" is no good and the change needs to be utterly reverted. 28 seconds even feels like a bit too long, honestly. Because when you also run Face the Darkness, that still makes totems impossible to cleanse for those who are screaming. Even with resilience.
Buffing the counter perks isn't really a solution either because then that's basically bhvr admitting there is a problem, but instead of fixing that problem, they replace it with an even worse bandaid fix by buffing certain perks that help cleanse totems. Trust me, we do not want a meta arms race of impossible-to-cleanse totems followed by perks that make cleansing totems super fast. Because then if you're running any sort of hex build, also running Thrill of the Hunt becomes mandatory, otherwise your totems get destroyed in 5 seconds by people who came with those counter perks.
Remember, this is why hex builds are so often coupled with Hex: Undying. Because "RNG" is usually so bad that hex totems get found within the first 30 seconds of the match.
Instead, completely revert the slowdown change. If you're actually interested, I've written a topic about how the devs could tweak Thrill of the Hunt and add another interesting effect here.
totem placement will do exactly nothing vs a team that has maps or detective hutch. it doesn't matter where you place the totem and bvhr has new habit of putting aura-reading base-kit for totems like hex:plaything. the best compromise to totems is making totems a large time sink so that even though totems are likely to be erased if found, they'll at very least provide the killer with some side-objective to slow gens down. A side objective if you will.
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most nurses run add-on because it is only add-on for base-kit nurse that has any meaningful improvement. all of nurses other add-on are terribly bad and offer almost no value. the iri add-on have potent effects but they radically change the play-style of default nurse and for many players, they're change it for the worse.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Who's Xeno?
xenomorph is the Alien chapter that introduced Nostromos Wreckage map and Ellen Ripley.
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definitely does not need this. I have 2 dream changes.
Flame turrets detection radius reduced from 40 meter → 8 meters.
Xeno tail strike radius increased from 5 → 6 meters
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850301#Comment_3850301
If TotH reduces your interaction speed by 70% and Calm Spirit increases that penalty by 30%, do you actually get -100% interaction speed, thus rendering the interaction impossible?
no. it is multiplicative of the 70%. it is like 79%-79.5% decrease to cleansing speed.
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@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850110#Comment_3850110
Again, my options shouldn't be to leave the person I won the chase against or eat a blind. I would be happy to go chase the other person if I could actually down the other survivor to get the pressure I earned.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850201#Comment_3850201
You can't. The game forces short M1 taps when you're near someone, which turn into grabs when a survivor is going in / and out of a locker.
the game innate s a grab if you press m1 and you are in range to grab them. if you tap m1 and float your m1 hitbox into the locker as the survivor exists, they will be put into the dying state. Your never forced to grab someone spamming exit/re-enter.
Personally i don't agree with grab immunity because it sounds like target nerf to stacking ranging add-on for flashlight.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850275#Comment_3850275
Asks for ideas. Continues to ignore them.
I am responding to your first comment.
"You almost never do that either."
- Devour hope likely does not need rework, Maybe an increase of stack by 1 for the mori but i think it is fine as is.
- Part of reason why other perks fail to have much reward is because they're too fragile. I don't think hexes perk need more reward overall, maybe Hex:Retribution, Hex:Haunted grounds and Hex:Crowd control could use buffs but not urgent.
- Many of the maps have been touched upon or reworked. Hex totems remained weak despite said changes.
- Already exists in the form of hex:undying. Often the perk will at very least protect your totem if it spawns badly/gets cleansed early.
- I'd prefer base regression being increased over ruin being plaster fix to poor over-time regression.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850224#Comment_3850224
You almost never do that either.
How can you buff hexes?
- Rework devour. It only activates (becomes cleansable) after 3 stacks. Devour can only get 3 stacks
- Buff / rework useless hexes like huntress lullaby
- Create more totem locations, so that totem spawns are more unpredictable.
- Make totems not cleansable in the first minute of the game.
- Rework ruin : 200% regression, disables after a survivor is dead.
These are just a few ideas.
the dev did something similar to what i wanted for hex builds. in my opinion, removing hexes is too easy and too time efficient for survivor. what i suggested was adding an extra life for undying to re-kindle itself. they buffed thrill of the hunt instead which resulted in survivors being less time efficient in for removing hexes.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850239#Comment_3850239
There is tiiiiiny difference between 28 and 46 seconds before to call it "basekit Thrill", but as you say.
28/0.7 = 40 seconds. 14→28 second is putting some of thrill of the hunt into base-kit.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850224#Comment_3850224
To be fair, highlighting a problem doesn't necessarily require a solution to be provided. There have been suggestions and topics for years on how to make hex perks more effective/less spawn RNG reliant, including but not limited to: -
- Improving map spawn locations for hexes on a number of maps.
- Allowing the killer to place a hex by choosing a totem to activate with each hex (either by walking to it, or better yet remotely)
- Removing the glow effect if over a certain radius from the hex.
- Not having the bones gain the hex glow until the Hex is activated/gains a token for the first time.
- Taking the Japan ruleset and blocking all hex totems until the first generator is completed.
I think it's fair to say buffing cleanse time is probably the least interesting of all of these.
The issue I see with it is, even if we take the stance TotH makes hexes balanced (which it doesn't when you see all the horrible builds that are popping up on various killers such as Singularity, but we'll assume it does), that would make it the case that Thrill of Hunt makes totems viable by pushing cleanse times to over 3 times their base cleanse speed.
This makes the perk mandatory for hexes to be viable, and without hexes are still not viable…. which is still ass from a design perspective.
This makes the perk mandatory for hexes to be viable, and without hexes are still not viable…. which is still ass from a design perspective.
why? the killer commits to a particular perk archetype and expects to get decent rewards from the archetype. Radianthero and Firellius are telling me that when you commit to this archetype, your should still have poor reward where survivor is entirely in control for your perks being relevant.
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We all know it's impossible to fix Hexes spawns, so in 80% of the games you will lose it no matter what before it will give even tiny value. I stopped to bring Hexes years ago, just sometimes I can bring Blood Favour in some meme build or Ruin if I'm okay with to play without perk with 80% chance.
from what i have read, survivor want to revert thrill so that we go back to what hexes were for last 6-7 years. the idea that they'll put thrill base-kit into totems is heavily unlikely to occur.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850135#Comment_3850135
The backlash you describe would have been absolutely justified.
Devour hope is not supposed to be up indefinitely. A good amount of killers and perks can make it almost impossible to cleanse the perk. If stacked in a complete hex build, it becomes way too overtuned.
People here are not complaining about thrill + devour.
They are complaining about:
- Thrill
- Devour
- Hex perk of your choice
- Pentimento
Even with old thrill a build like this offered a very good amount of game delay because devour can't be ignored by any means just like pentimento.
Its too much with new thrill.
I like variety in builds and I very much like hex builds. My second favourite killer perk in dbd is huntress lullaby. This is not how these builds should be buffed.
This is not how these builds should be buffed.
Provides no follow-up.
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@Valimure said:
Getting tired of being blinded by their buddy who's waiting around the corner because I'm forced to grab someone from the locker when they repeatedly enter / exit it instead of being able to actually swing and get the down.
My options shouldn't be to leave the person I was chasing because they found a locker to jump in and out of or eat a blind.
hit the survivor when coming out of a locker →pick them up.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849414#Comment_3849414
I'm 80% killer player and I say this perk is busted and needs to be nerfed.
A change like this should not have been pushed live without any testing beforehand.
i suspect that the perk was tested internally extensively but was not put on PTB because controversial strength that it has. If this was put on PTB, everyone would red flag saying the perk is too strong and needs to be immediately reverted before ever reaching live servers. I like the perk because it encourages killer to use d Expose perks(Devour hope) to win over standard game-delay perks you are all accustomed by now. there is some game-delay component to totems but that is somewhat inevitable when talking about totems.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
No
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849453#Comment_3849453
No its not in fact now the Kill combo is much easier AND you dont need double red to pull it off.
doesn't change fact that his tuft of hair is not a good add-on by itself. it requires too much stalk and his tier 3 is unrewarding. Judith tombstone can stand on its own because it makes his tier 3 more rewarding from mori so it requiring more stalk is fine because it becomes a different type of tombstone piece.
to OP @DyingWish92 I think your suppose to use his stalking speed add-on's (J.Myers+Memorial flower) to 99% his EV2. it reduces penalty of his close range stalk. this used to be base-kit mechanic where you didn't need add-on to 99% but now it is add-on thing.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849687#Comment_3849687
Why do you need to counter certain hexs?
Because Ruin adds a metric ton of slowdown for a killer who keeps decent pressure, and Devour Hope can close a game out extremely quickly once it gets stacked up. These are hexes that -must- be cleansed.
Again I don't see the issue, it's better this way than how it has been.
It's better for killer only, for the game as a whole, it isn't. Underpowered perks are always categorically less of an issue than overpowered ones, otherwise Invocations would skyrocket to the top of the charts in terms of priority.
As others have said killer can't be everywhere, it's hard enough defending gens alone but defending totems aswell as gens and downing survivors? It's a lot for a killer to juggle
Don't need to defend gens if survivors are stuck on totems.
the philosophy of killer getting value out of perks → imbalanced suggests that a hex that is not an empty perk slot is unfair. this can be applied to all perks but for the purposes of this thread, we will stay on topic within hexes.
Hex:ruin is weak enough that the perk could be a basic mechanic where the totem is unclensable and experienced teams would still be able to escape. i have played games as killer where the totem stayed up the entire game and I still lost because the team focused gen and optimized the chase well enough to complete them. As for devour hope, i don't have much experience as killer where my devour hope stayed up and i lose but when playing survivor, there have many games in my experience that my soloq survivor team is efficient enough at generators to finish all 5 gens before devour hope triggers. if it does trigger, it is often in the end game. I know this sounds impossible or the classic "Killer played bad so you won" statement but i have fairely high consistency in being able to pull this off in soloq. Sure it is riskier
Don't need to defend gens if survivors are stuck on totems.
survivor don't need focus totems to defeat totems. It is not like these totems are impossible to cleanse either, just that they are not a given to cleanse every match like they typically are. you focus gens before totems when killer commits to totem defending and you can pressure to killer move away from chasing by baiting totem cleansing while doing gens in the background.
Like the comparison is when survivors finish 80% gen and killer begins hovering and camping around that gen. if you have 1 survivor pressure the completion of that gen, other survivor can go to other gens and soft-complete progression on other gens because the killer isn't applying kill pressure and is choosing to camp the gen. the logic can be applied to totems.
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they should make legendary skin where you turn your dog into sabertooth lion to jump at people.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849448#Comment_3849448
hexes should be balanced off being endured as perks.
That would, in this case, involve nerfing them dramatically to the point where they wouldn't be hex perks anymore. I don't know why anyone would want that, unless they're expecting Devour Hope kind of power without being removable.
win within 5 hooks. it is not impossible. it is more realistic than the killer winning with 12 hooks.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848491#Comment_3848491
Big problem is that for a lot of killers, spreading hooks is pretty much going to be a loss (mostly m1 killers, especially ones without map traversal such as pig\ghostie\myers). They need to get a kill out early due to how weak they are. This perk alone pretty much screws over the weakest killers. Some of them were already dropping to a 50% kill rate (ie only 2Ks on average once at 50%) - now it's going to go even lower.
that is why i said the perk is strong. The perk is stronger vs strong killers because stronger killer are better at tunneling than weaker killers and stronger killer often cannot use exposed drawback negative because they tend to be M2 focused. Every killer's win-rate will drop lower if survivor adopt this perk because killer objective will be longer as they will not be able to shorten the objective.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849419#Comment_3849419
That is the overtuned bit, yeah. Hexes were balanced for the fact that they can be undone, but new Thrill removes this as an effective drawback.
Imagine if there was a perk that allowed you to consistently tank extra hits while injured. It'd remove a chunk of No Mither's drawback.
a perk that is balanced off being removed from the trial will inevitably become a perk that is empty slot in the majority of trials. I disagree that hexes are balanced off being removed. hexes should be balanced off being endured as perks. Most of the hexes have some form of drawback or require a certain amount of preparation for their effect to produce value in a trial. The perks that do not have them such as Ruin tend to have low reward because their reward is near guaranteed. it is possible to escape killer trials while leaving a hex entirely active for entire trial. Cleansing hexes should be opportunistic action, not the default action.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849414#Comment_3849414
Anyone who isn't completely saturated in killer bias can see this perk is wildly overtuned and, importantly, was never tested on the ptb in this state either.
This is effectively the equivalent of the more recent patch where killing a survivor caused an extra gen to pop for free. It shouldn't have gone live that way, likely was never intended to work this way, and should be corrected in the first available patch.
The only differences here are that survivors are suffering from this faux pas instead of killers, and, of course, that most of the forum posts are discussing how and why it's overtuned and requires a change instead of simply screaming at the devs to change it out of pure egotistical entitlement.
what is over-tuned about it? the fact that you need endure hex effect instead of remove the hex immediately from the trial?
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849389#Comment_3849389
History repeats itself. The funny thing is we've had this exact scenario 4 years ago when OG undying was released and people are using the same arguments to defend new thrill.
BVHR will nerf perk regardless what any killer says because survivor's say that the perk is unfun to face/not fair.
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https://youtu.be/a4xEhmVc68E?t=366@TheArbiter said:
I really don't see how the new Myers Negatives aren't outshined by the outstanding QOL he has now received, Tier 1 is almost unnoticeable now with how quickly you can escape it, Double the amount of stalk per survivor, being able to stalk much faster from a distance where survivors take longer to notice you etc
You don't stalk any faster. look at distance between where you need to be to benefit from stalking faster. One of myer's strength is his ability to 99% his ev2 which is also worse. the add-on are worse. More juice for survivor stalk was rarely an issue for experienced myer's because one of his only defining skill-caps to playing myer's correctly was juggling stalk. Increase stalk caps makes him easier to play but doesn't change his power-level.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849158#Comment_3849158
Insta heals aren't impactful, but Pyramid head iris are the best things in the game? Are you playing the same game?
items and rarity got deleted like 4 years ago. after you play the game for like 4 years, everything becomes free. after that, they did a change where bbq and prove thyself were nerfed, also we're gonna live forever but reduced cost of blood web items. this allows new player that did not play 4 years prior to also be up to speed with infinity items.
you should be prepared to play against Eyrie of crow +4 med-kit with instant heal every game as killer. I know your killer on low tier add-on are garbage compare survivor items but have fun with the challenge.
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@HOMOGRIMOIRE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849213#Comment_3849213
Sure, it would mostly shift the more popular survivors to thosewith meta perks, but its only one perk slot, so its not particularly restricting since most characters have at least one viable perk. Plus, the idea is to let a survivor's character shine at least a little and to get people to try new things. people liked chaos shuffle because it forced them to try new things, so the idea isn't so outlandish. And even if survivors with meta perks are chosen more often, meta perks change.
But honestly, i wouldn't mind this restriction for killer either. It could even be a point of balance for them. Perks can alway be buffed/nerfed, and it makes it so running 4 slowdown is only possible on a select number of killers. And just like survivor, allows a killer's character to shine more, even though they already have their power, voice lines, and animations to show that.
So, sure it could still lead to low survivor diversity, but its an issue we already have and this could be something worth trying, at least on a ptb to see what happens. And i wouldn't mind it for killer. something to help balance some of them at least and show more of their character in game. Though, not every cares about character showing in game, so it's understandable for this kinda change to not resonate with people, killers especially.
here's an idea. you can do it already. pick any character and put 1 teachable perk. you already have the mode. no reason to force your challenge on everyone else.
Some player have supported the idea of survivor powers and a possible survivor power is one of teachable being free perk slot but this creates meta survivors such as survivor that just happen to have exhaustion perk as one of their powers. Maybe you get 1 free teachable perk if you don't bring an item into the trial. could be an idea.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849190#Comment_3849190
Cleansing is suppose to be risky action. Currently at its 14 second value, it is not risky action. instead it, it is delete your opponent killer perks within 2 minutes of the match action.
Since when did cleanse a totem become a risky action for survivors? These are side goals for survivors and survivors shouldn't be punished for it by making Cleanse a totem take a century.
What about the perks that interact with Totem, Inner strength - Overzealous - Boon perks, do you think it's really a risky action ? No because Totem is a completely risk-free side thing.
Hex totems are a reward with risks for killers only, not survivors , and the reason it's Hex is to give survivors counter-play, not risk.
Hex totems are a reward with risks for killers only, not survivors , and the reason it's Hex is to give survivors counter-play, not risk.
my thought is that putting risk only on killer side makes perk overly one-sided for survivor.
do you think it's really a risky action ?
yes. The reward of these perk are not really there so i guess it doesn't matter that they're low risk because they're negligent reward. they're trying to make high risk, high rewards perk in form of invocation perks but they're not really successful at creating such perks.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848875#Comment_3848875
It's not really counterplay when you have to take longer than half a generator to cleanse a dull totem before you can even start attempting to remove the actual threat my guy.
It's been long known that doing totems for points is a throw... and that's at a mere 14s. Making it a mandatory 47s? That's busted. Imagine if you play a game of survivor where you spend 45 seconds doing literally nothing, and that isn't even including search time. I would call that a throw, and expect to lose as survivor in that scenario, wouldn't you?
That is the value of Hex perks, when sufficiently strong they grind the game to a halt as survivors look for them, and forces survivors to take risks removing them while the killer defends them, and that's the key, defend them... TotH makes it so monumentally easy to defend them even Demogorgon was nerfed so he couldn't do it with add-ons… only for it basically be made also doable for any map mobile killer.
All hex perks have been balanced with the idea of having to find and cleanse them in 14s. As I said, if raw slowdown on cleanse time is needed for Hexes to be viable, we should be looking at the base cleanse number, not make 1 perk grant more than triple the time it takes to cleanse a Totem.
12% might be OK, but it's still a boring change, taking it to 35s to cleanse a Totem. Thats better cause at least Counterforce would actually do somethi vs. that, but it's not very interesting.
Cleansing is suppose to be risky action. Currently at its 14 second value, it is not risky action. instead it, it is delete your opponent killer perks within 2 minutes of the match action.
If a killer constantly defend totems and is not commit to any chases than you should be doing gens. when a killer commits to a chase, you may choose to opportunistic remove one of their totems. if you are succeed, it is often the case that cleansing 1 totem greatly increases your odds to remove all their totems.
it requires a perk giving an over a 3 times penalty to the cleanse duration to make them work... then maybe we should look at base cleansing times.
They will not look at cleansing time. They will make you commit all your perk slots into using totem defence perk in order to prop up a particular perk. Supposedly, the perk that you choose to prop up has high enough reward to win the match.
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it is not really challenge perk. it is that they don't want survivor equipping these perks because they have game-changing effects.
No mither has unlimited unbreakable
Invocation crow perk has wall-hacks
Weaving spider is gen-rush perk. lowers all charges of gens.
They put broken effect on all these perks to discourage survivors from using them. No mither's best buff is just removing negative. same for all invocations.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849089#Comment_3849089
I was just thinking because all our other gen regression perks have been nerfed terribly. I figured a 2% increase wouldn't be too strong. In my humble opinion.
idk, i'd increase its radius to 48 meters from 32 meters.
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a longer range would just make you break your chain. dev have him in 2vs8 so i guess they can keep buffing him until they somehow make him good him good.
I'd honestly just give him iri coin base-kit that instant down on every spear but whatever.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848812#Comment_3848812
Also, Hens I believe has thousands of hours and streams(?)/does active content on YouTube for the game as its pretty much his livelihood.
With that being said, of course he will have a higher percentage of escaping with solo-queue than the average player does. People who play this game and load into a lobby, more often than not are casual players unless you get into the higher MMR calibers where people start running meta builds or builds that efficiently progress the game forward.
The people you see complaining about their teammates not touching a generator, urban evading everywhere, or whatever other stereotypical thing that people get mad over when spectating is the casual base in which these stats are taken from.
Hens and his experiment of solo-queue escapes are much different than the average player, as most people play quite altruistic in regular games whether playing solo or with friends.
When a person, such as Hens makes it a goal to escape as many games as possible with whatever build he chose (I didn't watch it) /=/ the regular casual playerbase that plays only a selected amount of hours per week.
your post has nothing to do with what i am talking about. he claims that the stat is the best you can do. If i provide counter-arguement of someone doing better than what stat says than his claim that it is cieling is wrong. I am also certain that 4 man swf could easily provide a counter-arguement of say 30 games that is higher then 50% escape rate. I'd wager you can get like 60% escape-rate in swf by everyone randomize perks in like first try.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848707#Comment_3848707
True. And they never address the real problem either. "I wonder why nobody uses Machine Learning?" Not only is it weak in that you get max 5 uses, and get screwed out of a use if you don't get lucky and kick the 1 specific gen they complete first, but the perk lies to you and says you only have to kick the gen once when you really have to kick it twice. Why? Nobody knows.
Oh, we buffed Pop to 30% after destroying the perk through taking progress off current, not total? Let's destroy it even more.
Crap like that.
they buffed machine learning to only require 1 gen kick.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848804#Comment_3848804
Because when survivors get 'as strong as they want', they peak at a sub-50% escape rate. So yeah, they're allowed to be 'as strong as they want', since the absolute highest they can achieve is just barely strong enough to be balanced.
Killers are averaging better kill rates and win rates, so further buffs tend to get pushback.
Hope that clarified it for you.
50% is lowest possible escape rate for 4 man swf. that's worst you can do. that stat says nothing about what cieling is. Like even Hens did a video where he did soloq survivor and he observed that he was escaping 60% of the time when soloq average is 40%. you can significantly outperform for what stats say.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
It doesn't actually appear to be an oversight, and besides - Hexes needed OSMETHING to make them viable. This does that. Are we seriously complaining that Killers aren't using gen regression besides Ruin to make games not be 10 minutes of gens popping to and fro? Is this really how low we've stooped, complaining about Hexes of all things?
Are Killers allowed to have anything good and strong? Ever? Let Killers have Hexes be strong for all I care, if Survivors can have their strong perks so can Killers. Besides, you get points for the cleansing anyway.
hex can also be gen defence. you can run ruin+Hex:plaything+Hex:penti+Thrill of the hunt and get a lot of game-delay out of your perks.
@Saiph said:
It's very obviously an oversight, and not something that the devs intended. Pretty sure it will be reverted.
Misunderstanding the effect of cumulated percentages is one of the most common math mistakes. Based on how it was phrased in the patch notes, the dev who changed the number probably intended to buff Thrill by +20%. But in effect, it ends up being a +120% buff, leading to 330% longer totems in total.
Now I won't blame BHVR for the math, I've seen so many people do this same exact mistake that I've basically stopped using percentages, I prefer to use ratios when possible eg. phrase it as "1.2x faster" or "1.2x slower" instead of "20% slower". However what's still very questionable here is that the person who tweaked the number did not test this change - you literally just need to equip the perk and try to cleanse a totem to realize there's a problem.
i don't think it's oversight because it is somewhat coincide to buff thrill of the hunt to indirect buff devour hope, a perk that ignores hook states while also releasing a perk called shoulder of burden to allow survivors to free juggle hook-states outside of killer's control. it might be that they buffed the perk so that devour hope can counter shoulder of burden because previous iteration of hex perks is garbage/too weak as survivor could freely removes hexes very quickly without little to no thought process resulting the killer having 0 perks in the trial. Like there is reason why hex perks are 1 time cleanse effects. they're like…. suppose to powerful and difficult to remove. The dev were balancing hex perks as if they were survivor boon perks that you can freely remove and infinitely replace as killer. now they're game-changing perks like developer intended the perks to be.
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@danielmaster87 said:
The perk never should have been made into a scourge hook. It made no sense to do that. I personally go beyond that, and say that the full buff/rework that the perk got in the Deathslinger PTB should have gone live, and it never did. People pressured the devs into nerfing that version, as it was "the strongest aura perk in the game." Well, we were desperately looking for an alternative to BBQ at the time, because it was the go-to aura perk (and still is for many), and yet people didn't want Hangman's. I tell you now, if you put Deathslinger PTB Hangman's in the game, nothing crazy would happen. It would be like dropping peak Freddy in today's meta; no major shake up.
What people need to understand is that BBQ happens upon hook, and lasts a few seconds after. But with Hangman's, it happens only as you're carrying someone, so if you're facing the wrong way to see auras across the map, it doesn't work. If you down someone right near a hook, and immediately hook them, it doesn't work. It only works in those scenarios if you waste extra time, which you might not have, to be looking all around for a few seconds, AND THEN hook the person. And by the time you get to where the person's aura was shown, they might not be there, whereas with BBQ you can actually see them running a few seconds after, getting their direction of flight.
I'd be interested to see the perk hit live as I've suggested. Maybe we'll see people go from "the hooks are too close together (despite them being spaced out via patches like 3 times)!" to "the hooks aren't far enough apart (denying Hangman's value)!" Any time one of the roles has another decent perk to run, that creates options which creates more variety, and we all want that.
hangman trick is pig perk. the perk is trash, i tried on ptb using new jagged compass. it is not good. the perk should work like weave attunement, you can see survivors near hooks over certain radius.
Any time one of the roles has another decent perk to run, that creates options which creates more variety, and we all want that.
dev don't want that. they'll buff meme stuff like Machine learning only to nerf it like next patch after. whenever they buff something for killer that ends up being good, it's just an accident. they didn't mean to do that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848565#Comment_3848565
This is textbook whataboutism.
At no point does this person say, or even imply what you're saying here.
Survivors are constantly told to "just bring the counter perks, duh" for camping, slugging, tunneling, chase, aura reads, slowdown, add-ons, and the list continues.
Not only is that already more than 4 things, but most of those are base kit for killers, leaving no room for build expression.
Or, in killer speak for you, this is why all survivors already bring the same builds most of the time.
you have no idea. a lot of stuff that survivors bring often has no counter-play and can bring immense value especially in swf-type level play.