DeadArsenal
DeadArsenal
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While this is never referenced or confirmed in any capacity I think Lisa may be similar to Angela. They are a part of the town and, for one reason or another, it won't let them go. I believe Laura from Silent Hill 2 may also be stuck in the same state but since she is innocent she wanders the fogworld unbothered by the creatures. The people Silent Hill chooses don't get to leave until it wants them to.
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@Orion said:
Deep Wound is its own health state, that's why.
This.
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@PalletsAndHooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1308653#Comment_1308653
Yea this was my question. Why not James? Too many licensed male survivors?
That's sexist af, BHVR.
James is in the DLC. He's the Killer. 😉
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343758#Comment_1343758
I don't mind, I'm a solo Q majn
Ugh, god, same. Truly suffering.
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If you want to give up SWF for the ability to see which killer you're up against be my guest.
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Two reasons:
1) It is often much more difficult to sneak when dealing with Doctor. He is a very full throttle sort of killer, chasing more often than not because his power gives him excellent scouting ability. Conventional methods of juking killers stealthily do not work. Mind you I'm not saying that's some terribly bad thing. As a killer he exists to change the tempo, from how survivor movement works to reversed skill checks. It feels frustrating to me.
2) His ability can prevent you from performing certain actions which is also extremely frustrating, especially against Doctors that tend to tunnel hard.
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I despise playing against Nu-Doctor.
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You threw your back out struggling so hard. Better get fixed up quick, scoliosis is serious.
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I hope so, because that puts him on the same footing as Nurse and Deathslinger as far as telegraphs go.
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You want a list of the more than half dozen survivor perks that baddies use as crutches?
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I play at irregular intervals and haven't got far in overall progression so I'll need to extra BP. Sometimes survivors won't always trip Tormented and I'll have to hook them anyway so it doesn't matter. Extra map awareness on hook is also a plus.
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"I'm of the opinion that anyone who uses fear tactics to manipulate larger groups of weak minded individuals to justify brutality on unarmed civilians, in any region at any point in history, is a pathetic coward with no honor, courage or worth"
Bruh that describes pretty much every government in the history of the world.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1331795#Comment_1331795
It does open up some interesting details about the level of consciousness of The Entity. Why does The Entity specifically feed off emotions? How did this thing come into being? Bizaarly, this chapter - despite being a franchise and not homegrown into the lore - probably shows a lot more about The Entity's existence than was ever disclosed before. Bearing in mind Cheryl's ability to manipulate The Entity to assist her, Silent Hill is a lot stronger than I forst gave thought to!
And good point about how Pyramid could be fed off. I guess my thinking was that, once James Sunderland shed the burden of guilt and accepted his weakness, both Pyramid Heads sacrificed themselves, having no longer a purpose. With that in mind, it has nothing else to symbolise, so if it continued afterwards The Executioner has no need for his guilt and is therefore an empty vessel, in terms of emotions.
HOWEVER, if - like The Entity - it continued to exist because of guilt from anyone,.. well, maybe it either parasitically feeds off The Entity and those within, or has a way of feeding on emotions The Entity can't access, and acts as a symbiote. Either way, I think the only reason Pyramid Head is a Killer here is because it agreed. If it didn't, I am not sure whether The Entity would have been able to take it.
The funny thing about the Pyramid Pair is that they are defeated by James' admission of guilt. They appeared because he repressed his own emotions and died because he accepted those emotions along with the memories attached to them. Based on the conversations and events in several of the endings I don't think he wholly let go of that guilt. Instead he accepted it so it could be confronted. In Water he surrenders to it. From there I think it would make sense if he became that guilt, and then the monster itself.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1331183#Comment_1331183
I thought as much about thoae cages! I did wonder with Pyramid Head's Mori why it's a tentacle of barbed wire, and not that cage - sacrifice the survivor as it did Maria.
Eitherway, it says something that Pyramid Head is torturing anything and everything, with no regards for survivor or The Entity!
Wouldn't it be interesting if The Entity gained Pyramid Head, but in effect infected itself with a portion of the magic within Silent Hill. The Executioner has nothing for The Entity to feed on. It just torments. Effectively, whilst everyone else within is sustinance, Pyramid Head is just a virus.
The only other we know who faced The Entity was Evan MacMillan, and unfortunately his humanity made him much easier for The Entity to surpress (although, fair play to Evan, at least he made an effort!)
I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it, but the Entity actively assists Pyramid Head during his Moris. Pyramid Head isn't telekinetic or anything, so the Mori involves a fragment of the Entity heaving up from the ground to bind the Survivor before being executed. A Mori is like the Entity's tacit approval to kill. Pyramid Head can kill using Torment, but by using a Mori he's not subverting the Entity's system. It's almost like the Entity is fond of Pyramid Head. The relationship between the two is, perhaps ironically, a lot like the relationship between James and Maria. Fitting too, given what Maria truly was.
Pyramid Head not having anything to feed off of though? Not sure about that. If he truly is James he has become his guilt and is now obsessed with inflicting punishment on others. He would be an endless font of sorrow and rage, which reminds me of the Spirit. If he's not actually James then you might be right: Silent Hill has infected The Entity after a fashion. But Pyramid Head being the torment is interesting, it would imply the Entity feels guilty for being alive. 🤔
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1329791#Comment_1329791
I've always been interested to know what that lump of flesh was actually there for, other than to accentuate the feeling of pain.
It would be interesting to know if (bearing in mind this considers the maps as part of The Entity) Pyramid Head is performing a torment on The Entity. This trenches look like horrid slices on flesh with infection, and takes a long time to heal. Also, in the videos of the PTB I've seen, if someone dies in The Executioner's cages, I cannot recall The Entity grabbing them. Could it be those cages actually be a real connection with Silent Hill? Could an essence of the survivor then be taken to be tormented there? A little like that Black Mirror episode: U.S.S.Callister.
Hard to say what its purpose is. One of the original developers said that nobody has got it quite right and he's not telling. Maybe it's leather designed to keep the pyramid on. Maybe it's not supposed to be anything in particular, but rather something for the player to imagine a horrific explanation. Also, I think you're right in saying that Pyramid Head is tormenting the Entity. I used to word "violent" earlier but it's almost sadomasochistic in nature, which makes the Entity's willingness to tolerate such a being very interesting. Some killers it dominates, other killers seem to dominate it.
As far as the cages are concerned, yes I believe they are a connection to Silent Hill. !SPOILERS!: While Pyramid Head is often associated with cages in various artwork there is one more direct connection to make: Mary. The Cages that Survivors are placed into are almost exactly the same as Mary's cage at the end of the game.
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As long as it's Scott's Alien and not Cameron's Alien.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1329415#Comment_1329415
"Bulb of flesh"?
as far as I'm aware there is no bulb of flesh "hanging off the back" although I've never played Silent Hill so I could be wrong, but after he was announced I did my fair share of research and watched full cutscene compilations / "movies" of Silent Hill 1 / 2 / 3 so I could better understand Cheryl's story and Pyramid Head's role in those early games. I also watched videos like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjTk5S6LojQ
It's from my understanding that the only truly canonical appearance of Pyramid Head is from Silent Hill 2 (he doesn't appear in 3 from what I remember, and he wasn't conceived yet to appear in the first game) so different versions of Pyramid Head where he has a "fleshy substance" underneath the helmet or a "fleshy bulb" on the back are non-canonical. This is also the iteration of Pyramid Head that we see in DBD (from Silent Hill 2) so it stands to reason we are working with the canon in mind and nothing else.
The video talks about this briefly in a segment about a minute or two long that starts at 3:23. Masahiro Ito himself confirms that what is under Pyramd Head's helmet, is in fact, a regular head. None of this hullabaloo about "fleshy bulbs" or masses underneath the helmet
Making images like this with the "bulb of flesh" non-canon:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZKDWKO0B61CX/image.png
With this in mind, to this point and the devs credit, the Pyramid Head we see in DBD looks exactly like how he appears in SH 2, just in much, much better quality since SH 2 released in 2001.
I'm not exactly commenting on the question posed in the thread itself, I just wanted to clarify this little tidbit of info. I could be wrong? Not entirely certain, since most Silent Hill / Pyramid Head information seems so opaque and obscure, it's a weird game for sure.
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@NickChinchill said:
It also ties into Pyramid Head's role in Silent Hill 2. His role was to torment and punish James, and force him to confront a truly horrible thing he did. If James doesn't press on and acknowledge what he's done, Pyramid Head will kill him.
In Dead by Daylight, while he's chasing survivors and sacrificing them, his skills flavour text still suggest that he carries himself in that same role; trying to punish the survivors and force them to face their sins. As the survivors can't do that in the Entity's environments, after sending them to a cage a few times to try and hammer the lesson in, he will ultimately kill them for not confessing and confronting their inner demons.
I find it very interesting that BHVR made several stylistic changes to Pyramid Head. So interesting that I've got a theory that the Pyramid Head in DbD isn't actually the Pyramid Head from Silent Hill 2. If anyone is reading this and worried about Silent Hill 2 spoilers here's the place you should stop. This Pyramid Head notably lacks the bulb of flesh hanging off the back of its pyramid and also lacks the piercing tongue of PH in SH2. It is also obsessed with affected torment and punishment on Survivors even though they may not deserve it, which is in direct contrast to its nature in SH2 as PH was a very personal figure to James. Pyramid Head also had no real "duty" as described to Silent Hill itself, not without James being present.
Want to know what I think? Last chance for spoilers: I think this Pyramid Head is James himself, having fallen into his darker nature. He wields the great knife and carries the burden of the pyramid on his head by choice, punishing himself forever by becoming the phantom of his own guilt. The duty that PH left behind was duty to his wife Mary, "'til death do us part." I like to think this PH is James after the In Water ending, some part of him remained behind in the town and lived on tormenting and being tormented forever.
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Pyramid Head's relationship with the entity is violent to say the least. In the metaphysics of Dead By Daylight the trials are composed of The Entity's thoughts and some memories it has taken from its victims. Pyramid Head cleaves The Entity's flesh when using Rites of Judgment and then uses Torment to subvert The Entity's control. Don't forget that Pyramid is wild even in his original environment, abusing and killing monsters in Silent Hill at a whim. It makes sense he would be a bit on the wild side, even for something like The Entity. Maybe The Entity likes him that way.
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@Sixnno said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983020#Comment_983020
You're not understanding the actual goal of the game.
You say that if two people escape, you half failed. That's not true. You are exactly the type of person I made this thread about.
The goal of the game is not to kill the survivors. That is not the win state of the killer. The killer's win state in to pip. Which at minimum requires 2 kills in red ranks if you do well everywhere else. You pip and thus succeed, or you don't.
Edit: okay yeah you can tie / draw if you safety. It isn't a fail, but not a success.
So what you're claiming is that the goal of the survivors is to survive but the goal of the killers isn't to kill? Seems pretty obvious to me what the goal is just by the roles being discussed. You can label me this "exact type of person" all you want but that's the worst mistake you'll ever make in this discussion: If you make the implication that killers are supposed to do anything other than their job in the structure of the game, then demonize them for it, but survivors are supposed to metagame a victory as hard as they can there's no reasoning with you.
It is all too common to see Survivors declare victory "GG EZ YOU LOST" because one person escaped out the hatch. One. I've seen dozens of screenshots of survivor teams degrading and insulting killers for doing exactly what they're supposed to do. If you want to tell people what constitutes a win maybe you should start with Survivors themselves.
I used to drop the last survivor on the hatch. I used to just let people have the extra bloodpoints. Not anymore. Because of Survivors' attitude and their blatant disregard for my own accomplishment that doesn't happen. Killers aren't allowed to feel accomplished for partial failures. Survivors see to that regularly enough.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/985907#Comment_985907
Playing killer against newbies even as one is not hard. If you can patrol gens, you can 4k. Low rank survivors go down faster than a Kardashian.
So, knowing that, you don't see a problem with those killers learning from merciless high level race against time meta? Low rank play becomes that much easier for killers and that much harder for survivors. If you were new and you got torn to shreds and/or mori'd within a few minutes of starting many of your earliest matches how long would you stick around?
But that's not even the worst part. All of these previously "toxic" methods become the status quo for everyone. Everyone ruthlessly exploits every advantage they can get. Everyone hates everyone else. Hell, I bet Survivor sandbagging will even go up just because people want to live slightly longer than everyone else to squeeze a few more bloodpoints out of the ever-shorter round.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/985886#Comment_985886
And again, I'm just telling you that's how it already is. And I'm red ranked so the trickle down comment is irrelevant.
The only reason you think it's "irrelevant" is because you don't care about new players or people who don't play that often. It's extremely relevant because now that killers absolutely MUST play as if they have the absolute minimum amount of time to win no matter what that's exactly what they'll do. When new people start playing killer they'll learn from that as an example. Those are part of the consequences I'm talking about. Nobody wins here. Not red ranks, not new players, and certainly not you or me.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/985864#Comment_985864
Again, threatening to be more toxic is not a threat. I'm used to it. Yes, that's anecdotal. I never claimed it wasn't.
Second, *AS KILLER*, I don't have a problem playing nice and I don't use ruin. I mainly play Doc, so I'm not some god tier killer. I more often get 12 hooks than I get 4 man escapes. You do not need to get 4 kills every game. I've had 0k games where I still pipped.
I'm not making a threat. I'm telling you how it's going to be. It doesn't matter what I do. I never even had Ruin as a teachable. But do remember that high rank meta trickles down. Low tier players always emulate high tier players. If high tier play is merciless and devoid of courtesy then low tier will be as well.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981618#Comment_981618
First off, those "toxic" methods are already used in the overwhelming majority of games. Otherwise BT and DS wouldn't be meta. There would be no point in taking perks to counter crappy behavior if said crappy behavior wasn't commonplace.
Secondly, have you ever stopped to consider that if all four survivors escape that quickly they were just simply better than you? If you think it's just the game and gen rush is a problem, then all survivor complaints about OP killers and add-ons giving them 4k's in less than five minutes suddenly have merit as well. Be careful what you wish for.
I'd like to see you prove that claim with data rather than anecdote. Furthermore, your implication that Survivors only take BT and DS because killers are toxic is absurd. I've been DS'd many a time adhering to these rules Survivors make based on what they do and don't like. I've seen people DS underperforming killers as a Survivor many a time. Don't point fingers and claim Killers are toxic as a rule and then pretend Survivors aren't. No one will take you seriously.
In regard to your second paragraph, you're willfully blind and ignorant if you think gen progression rates at high ranks are even remotely reasonable. In fact, comments like yours are why killers will become even more toxic than ever and will stay that way: Instead of acknowledging that the early game is rigged against Killer you just insinuate they are bad.
I've got news for you: You're in for a rude awakening when the new Post-Ruin meta settles in. If Killers have to win in less than five to seven minutes consistently Survivors are going to get the most brutal methods Killers can devise and no one will hold back. Two things prevented this before: Ruin and courtesy. One is gone and the other has been forsaken by people like you. Enjoy the consequences.
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Then so be it. If BHVR truly are foolish enough to keep taking tools away from killers without addressing the ever more apparent problems regarding gen progression and match length we'll bleed players until the game dies. PTB is one thing though while Live is another. Once these changes hit live they won't be able to ignore the flaws in match structure. They can pretend to ignore it, but they'll still know.
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@Danielgdp3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981618#Comment_981618
You can win without Ruin and not play toxic too btw
Yet playing toxic is consistently viable, and consistent viability is the basis of all metagame.
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@Sixnno said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982388#Comment_982388
That means your other emblems were lacking as well.
It's possible to pip at red ranks with a gold-silver-iridesent-iridesent set of emblems.
Or with a gold-gold-gold-iridesent combo. It's possible to get a gold devote if you hook every survivor once, kill 2, and get 9 hook events.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982357#Comment_982357
See, you're viewing not killing as a fail. It isn't. I mean you can play like that but it isn't a fail. You are also letting survivors get under your skin despite getting 3 of them.
It sounds like you are the type of person I made this thread about. That there needs to be better communication to the killer side that 2k is not a failing state. It is possible to fail with 2k but if you do, you would most like be lacking in other areas as well.
You're obviously not even listening to what I'm telling you. It's a failure by degrees. If you fail to kill half of the survivors then you've half failed. Since you immediately restructure my argument for me to suit your own preconceptions it sounds like you see and hear whatever you want to hear in order to confirm your own intrinsic bias. If SWF have a fair chance to all escape then Killer should have a fair chance to kill them all. Fair's fair. Half's half.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119060/otz-also-gets-destroyed-without-ruin
I mean, you're listing Autohaven and McMillan as hard killer maps. Are you sure you play the game at a high enough level where not having Ruin will affect you that much?
They don't have to be "hard killer maps" to be relevant in his example. On the contrary: Even maps that are easier for killers have enough material in the early game to hold the killer off before they can stop the first 3 gens popping off. Then after that the Survivors still have pallets and loops to spare, especially if they're SWF and the chase target is paying attention. Killer's got maybe one or two hooks and the Survivors are already half done with gens or more.
You can play the death by degrees card because there's no real line where the effects of game design and the effects of skill border eachother. They overlap because one affects the other directly. Fact of the matter is a team of SWF survivors that can hit Great skill checks will pop half the gens before Killer gets one quarter of the amount of hooks they need to succeed.
People throw around the term "gen rush" a lot but it's more complicated than that. It's the time Killers require to compete versus the speed Survivors can complete their objective. The balance of that is skewed and Ruin brought that back into line in red ranks because it deprived Survivors of Great skill check bonus progression until they cleansed the totem.
That being said, I can fully understand why they wanted to axe Ruin because it really isn't fun or fair for new players at all. But without normalizing the speed at which gens progress across the board it will just force killers to up the toxicity and never feel bad about it.
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Sorry I really can't even take the idea of a 50/50 ratio as the target seriously at all. Not when I've seen survivors declare "GG EZ" when I killed three of four and the last escaped by hatch. Half of the survivors fail and the killer gets half a failure. Yay, fun. We're having fun! Right? Probably not.
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Just remember: A devpost the other day recommended killers just derank to where they feel comfortable playing. The matchmaking's busted beyond belief and they seem to think it's consistent enough to tell Killers which rank they belong in.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982298#Comment_982298
Oh sorry i meant to write was lol
I see. Well then no harm done. Just a misunderstanding.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982247#Comment_982247
How am i compering killers to baby's?
"Because Ruin Waaa nerfed" Your thread title implicitly insults and degrades killers as crying before you even give them a chance to respond.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982264#Comment_982264
There is a difference to use Moris because you think you need them and using Moris to make the other side suffer. The later is highly immature and not really necessary, because we dont need even more toxicity in this game.
We don't need it but it's exactly what we're going to get. All the people that used Hex:Ruin to avoid using toxic methods now no longer have it and the people who didn't use it to begin with don't care. You can already see how Killer players feel persecuted because this change occurred without addressing gen repair speeds. It's easy to see why they're so willing to go toxic: Toxicity tends to work. That's why it's called toxic.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I did not experience that so far, but I know from the Forums that some Killers think it is a cool idea to use Moris and all that other Stuff to "punish" Survivors for a change they did not ask for. Which is very mature, of course.
The mindset isn't all that mature but the practice is a natural consequences of the metagame shifting. Killers will use Moris and other methods to disable survivors as quickly as possible because that's what's most viable now. Hex:Ruin was a way to play without resorting to these methods and still win even without playing the best killers. The Killers making the threats already understand it is an inevitability. Hanging it over survivors heads as if it were a punishment is pointless.
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Calls other people toxic, titles thread by implicitly comparing killers to babies before the discussion even begins. Nothing wrong here. 100% consistent.
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Whispers. Next.
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@Peanits said:
It could be interesting. If it does, surely that would encourage survivors to slow down and do totems to prevent that from happening.
If they actually did that then Ruin wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
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You guys are alright. Never change.
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"Many good killers don't rely on their Ruin going into late game anyways"
Yeah, key words being "good killers" i.e. top tier killers. Killers like Nurse, Billy and, ironically, Freddy remain viable. The rest of the cast not so much. Telling people they need to play certain characters if they want to play in the high ranks isn't exactly going to change anybody's minds.
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@JOBreazy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981930#Comment_981930
I said that one guy is toxic but ok bud, and i never said anything about gen speed so i ask again, what is this exploit your talking about?
I've already described it to you chief. You're obviously trying to pigeonhole what I'm saying by defining the word "exploit" for me as if I'm talking about cheating. The structure of the game is flawed and people exploit that to succeed. The word "exploit" existed before the narrow definition you're using did. Exploiting an advantage to win is not the same as exploiting a game bug to cheat. Stop trying to make other peoples' arguments for them and try listening instead. It's pretty damn annoying when you don't.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981911#Comment_981911
Sure, but it's so easy that it requires the absolute minimum skill level... You wanna remove great skill checks when doing gens is already mundane?
I do, because it makes the game more consistent in length. The bonus progression on gens for Great skill checks often make gen repair times unpredictable and, in high level play, far too short. I completely understand your reluctance, but I don't think the mundanity of gen repair can ever be lesser or greater than it already is.
@Witas said:
I dunno how I feel about this, new players would still find it hard (since they're well ... New) and for the veterans you'd just be removing skill, since hitting greats is not so easy. Seems like a lose/lose to me.
But what skill is it really removing? A timing minigame that only really serves to distract them while the killer maneuvers themselves? You do have a good point though: It's can be a double edged sword. Survivors expend less attention on skill checks but also spend more of their attention watching for the killer.
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@JOBreazy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981898#Comment_981898
And what exploits are you talking about, do you even understand what a exploit is.
survivors do gens. Where exactly is there an exploit in the game?
They exploit the structure of the game. In an SWF every survivor knows where every other survivor is, who is being chased, what the killer is doing at all times, and coordinates with their teammates in order to manage time. They know they have absolutely nothing to fear from the Killer until they're downed twice and weigh that against the amount of time they can squeeze out of each individual chase.
I can already see your pathetic argument for what it is. I've seen it a dozen times. You say gens are the objective so anything you have to do to complete them is a-okay and fine. But then you turn around and call killers toxic for doing the same. Knock out slugging? Toxic. Ebony Mori? Toxic. NOED? Toxic.
News flash: Toxic is the new meta now. Enjoy.
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@JOBreazy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981898#Comment_981898
No not really, if your games are ending in 5 mins then you really need to change how you play bc i have never had a game end in 5mins so dont get your panties in a bunch bud
"Don't get your panties in a bunch" says the poster that immediately declares everyone toxic and bad. Gen progression rates are too rapid. If you don't know that then you don't play Killer OR Survivor at a high level.
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@Ghoste said:
This is bait, yeah?
If you don't have to time the skill check, then it's not a skill check.
So by your reasoning Good skill checks aren't skill checks then?
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@JOBreazy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981867#Comment_981867
If your games are finishing in 5mins then you just suck as killer there is nothing else to it lol
Calls other people toxic, immediately starts calling people bad because they describe how the game's mechanics can be exploited to complete the match very quickly. Truly low IQ hypocrite response well done.
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So it's cool for Survivors to have the ability to finish the game in five minutes but it's not cool for Killers to do the same? Typical toxic survivor main.
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@HexMoriMeMommy said:
Nah fam, a rank 20 would still find it hard.
You might as well just make gen progress automatically and put no skill checks at all, because skill checks are hard for survivors.
I feel that would be too extreme, but it would serve a similar purpose.
@White_Owl said:
Removing the great skillchecks zone woud be a bad idea imo. At red ranks the only reason people fail skillchecks is trying to hit the great zone, and trying to hit it is the only thing (at least for me) that makes repairing gens a bit more entertaining.
Fair, but that same pressure exists for new players that are more likely to fail.. Since people in high ranks can pass the skill checks consistently the progression bonus granted by Great skill checks is what people used Ruin to avert in the first place. I 100% understand how frustrating Ruin can be for new players because it requires Great skill checks to progress but that should work both ways. But red ranks don't normally fail those skill checks so all Ruin really did was bring them down to normal gen repair rates until the totem gets cleansed.
That's why I think they should just cut out the middle mechanic altogether. Standardize repair speeds across the board. The reason Killers felt they needed Ruin would be gone. Survivors spend their time on gens thinking about the on-going round. It'd be a net positive.
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it would have been good for the game if BHVR had the brains to adjust gen repair progress. The only "diversity' you're going to see in Killer builds is how many play top tier killers and use the most toxic perks available. Ways to end the game in as little time as possible without needing to hook each player thrice will become the new gold standard and Survivors aren't going to like it.
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"I don't get all the killers who crutch on ruin being in such an outrage"
That's probably because they're a construct you invented in your head to argue against instead of real people with real thoughts and real complaints. How convenient that you "don't get it" when people have explained over and over again that gen progression is too fast in general. Forget everyone stating the absolute fact that games can be pretty much over in five minutes. Forget everyone telling you that the structure of the game itself is flawed and Ruin was used to compensate for that.
Just remember, all those mystical crutch gremlins you're referring to have Ebony Moris and access to Nurse and Hillbilly. Remember that there will be consequences for taking a dump on high level killer meta without adjusting the game's structure to compensate for it. It's entirely possible to win without Ruin. That's the one thing you're right about. What you don't realize is that those methods are "toxic" and will be used shamelessly from now on.
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@Jukenobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979308#Comment_979308
There is no enjoyment at Red ranks as of now, it's not going to change that much. Everyone in Red ranks play like it's an E-Sport. Killers sweating 4k's like they are going to die in Real life if they don't get it. People just need to take a seat and enjoy themselves, have some fun and don't take the game so seriously.
Fair enough, but this isn't a step in the right direction either. If toxicity and queues lengths go up but nothing else really changed is that a good thing? BHVR was right to rework Ruin, but Killers are equally right to be angry about the rework without changes to gen progression speed to compensate for the rework. All the things they'll have to do to win without Ruin are things Survivors have told them aren't fair for years.