CrypticGirl
CrypticGirl
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Is there a dev who can maybe confirm that this was supposed to be patched out, or am I losing my mind?
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@indieeden7 said:
Not saying that the mentality is a justified one to have, but over dbd's ten years of existence, the game's pacing has been constantly creeping to a nature of whoever gets the better start is almost guaranteed to win. Back in the day, dbd matches used to almost always flip flop between survivors having the upper hand, to killers, and then back to survivors and so on.
The game simply isn't like that anymore, and I think the players realise this. Again, I'm not saying that this is a justified mentality to have, because a match certainly can be turned around in a lot of cases, but the chaotic nature dbd used to have really isn't a thing anymore, and so a bad outlook for the match's conclusion is going to be pretty demoralising, for both survivors and killers.
Not saying that the mentality is a justified one to have, but over dbd's ten years of existence, the game's pacing has been constantly creeping to a nature of whoever gets the better start is almost guaranteed to win.
It's not just a mentality, it's the truth. You can say it doesn't justify all the giving up, but I believe this is the heart of it all. Not liking the Killer/perks/map/etc. are just the cherries on top.
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@Classic_Rando said:
Lobby dodging is a necessary evil because the matchmaking has been non-functional for years. As soon as I stop getting paired with literal brand new players on a regular basis, I will support penalties for lobby dodging. Also, half the anon mode teammates I get matched with DC the first time they get downed. If I have no way of avoiding these types of matches, I simply won’t play the game anymore.
And lobby dodging just makes it even worse, because then the game will throw in new players to fill the lobby that you left.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052740#Comment_4052740
You already get "the killer will win soon" baked into most of the abandon conditions, even when its not a done deal. If you're actually at that point while on hook, the abandon feature activates. Thats not the same thing as when someone thinks the killer will win soon, which is extremely variable and depends on the temperment of a given player. And again, doesn't even account for perks like deliverance or unbreakable which could lead all the way to a full reset, but why would anyone bring them when people will choose to abandon before they can be used correctly? Doesn't matter that the abandon feature already defeats the point of multiple perks, people still want more.
Edit:
do you really not get why the OP would want to???Of course I do. Just like I'm sure killers wasting time swatting out at the exit gate do. But like how the limitations of the game's design make that a bridge too far in that situation, people can wait for abandon or death on the hook. Just remember to thank the many go nexters who convinced the devs it was a necessary change through their actions
Yeah, the abandon, the go-next prevention, and many other things have worsened the go-next mentality. I'm not sure there's any going back at this point...partially because the devs clearly don't want to.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052541#Comment_4052541
How about the experience of the three survivors left to do 5 gens because someone was upset to be the first one hooked?
The one already dead won't care. The other two know the game is over anyway with one dead and one downed at four gens. (I assume that's what OP meant by "4 gens down"?) So yeah, OP isn't upset that they were "the first one hooked" because they weren't the first one hooked.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052469#Comment_4052469
Ah, fair point. @jesterkind definitely belongs in the Iconic category, if not legendary
Yeah, definitely. And "noticeable" sounds just about right for me, too. XD
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... How has no one mentioned jesterkind yet? 😮
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@BlackRabies said:
Hard tunneling always been a thing in the highest level of play since it's a coordinated 4 man SWF team. It's really the only viable means to slow the game down so that killers have a chance to win when survivors are free to gen rush with no built in game penalties. Even got 2 more perks to make gens go even faster completing a gen in 20-30 seconds with the right load out. That should never be allowed to happened.
But sure let's punish the killer's for rushing their objective while survivors are encouraged to rush theres for free.
Maybe add something new to the game to force survivors to do something else other than gens. Idk finding parts for a gen before it can be repaired.
Survivors have been groomed to rush the gens to counter the tunneling. And any other means to slow down gens, such as finding parts like you mentioned, will only massively buff tunneling, and thus more appealing, unless tunneling is appropriately nerfed first.
Tl;Dr In order to slow down the match as a whole, both gen speeds and tunneling need to be addressed at the same time. Otherwise, Killers will take advantage of the even easier tunneling.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Survivor Counterplay.
Hard-tunnel from the start has been the de-facto playstyle for many lately. I believe a lot of it stems from certain content creators, who has dipped their toes into the competitive scene, who makes others believe that it is the ONLY viable strategy to win games, even in public matches.
Now, tunneling has always been present in the game, but in 2022, when patch 6.1.0 dropped, that is when it got taken to a whole new level, since the survivors lost a lot of the counters they had to tunneling. And with the killer powercreep that has been ongoing for a while now, the problems are only getting worse, since it gets much easier to do. This in turn has prompted the survivors to optimize everything fun out of their gameplay, and stick to gens like flies on horse-dung, which has made the survivor gameplay loop incredibly stale.
Also, on the killer side, before 6.1.0, you had perks like the original BBQ, which gave a BP bonus, that also served as an incentive to spread hooks early on, in order to guarantee the bonus.
One counter I have seen is to have teammates with Shoulder the Burden. I escaped a hard-tunnel thanks to a random teammate with StB. The Nemesis player was so angry afterwards.
Other than that, I would say that the only other counters to tunneling would be the usual suspects, like Decisive Strike, Dead Hard and perks that takes away your scratchmarks, and those that makes you silent.Aura read is a whole other can of worms, and it has only gotten worse and worse with time, with several perks on either side enabling this.
- If you know that the killer has aura perks, you'd use lockers a lot more to block the aura reads.
- If you as a killer knows that the survivors has aura read on you, make sure to never chase them in areas with a lot of LoS blockers.
- Perks like Friends till the End and Alien Instinct is highly problematic, since it often enables tunneling, where the fresh unhooked survivor gets targeted by it.Game Health.
A good incentive would be to revert BBQ, and change some of the hook based perks to give bonuses based on unique hooks.
Take Pain Resonance for example. A good way to change it would be to change the current token based system from starting with 4 tokens of 25% regression each, to zero tokens at the start, with a base 8% regression on the first hook, increasing by 4% for every unique hook afterwards, up to a maximum of 20% that will trigger on every unique hook afterwards. These tokens would stay if you keep rotating hooks. However, if you decide to tunnel someone, you'd instead get a negative token, and if you tunnel someone out before hooking someone else, the perk gets disabled for the remainder of the trial.
This is a more healthy way of making the 1v4 potentially stronger, and the 1v3 potentially weaker.
This approach could also work with perks like Grim Embrace, by keeping the current effects for unique hooks, and also add on the 10 second block for every unique hook afterwards, but with the caveat that the perk disables if a survivor dies by normal means (suicides does not count).Another perk that I have had an idea for a change to would be Hex: Ruin.
Instead of starting as a lit totem, it would instead activate once the first survivor gets hooked, and gets progressively stronger through tokens, gained from unique hooks.
First hook: A random dull totem gets lit, placing the Hex onto it. The curse causes generators not being worked on to regress automatically at 60/80/100% normal regression speed.
Second hook: Regression is increased to 75/100/125% speed.
Third hook: Regression is increased to 90/120/150% speed.
Fourth hook: Regression is increased to 105/140/175% speed, and the repair skillchecks becomes Cursed (red).
Cursed skillchecks require you to hit a Great skillcheck (with a 50% increased window) in order to continue repairing. Hitting a good skillcheck will cause the progress to halt for 2 seconds.
This totem then deactivates when the first survivor dies by normal means.Changing these perks would definitely help incentivicing a more hook-oriented playstyle.
Another way to combat tunneling would be to disable the unhook notification sound. That way, a killer who is actively chasing someone, won't necessarily drop chase to go back to the freshly unhooked survivor, unless they keep staring at the HUD all the time.
Feedback.
I would say that these forums are probably the best place to leave constructive feedback for the game devs.
Perks like Friends till the End and Alien Instinct is highly problematic, since it often enables tunneling, where the fresh unhooked survivor gets targeted by it.
Actually, Friend's til the End incentivizes spreading hooks. Especially when the Killer hooks the non-obsession, the Obsession is revealed and exposed, leading to a potential easy second down if the Killer can reach them quickly enough. I've lost many matches to Killers with this perk due to how quickly they spread the pressure with it.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052243#Comment_4052243
Well no none of my teammates DC they all got sacrificed and I could just abandon since I was the only one left if it's intended or not idk
@Kupega said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052247#Comment_4052247
that's what they meant when they don't know if it was intended or not, because you technically are the last human survivor by being the only survivor, so bhvr could have glossed over the fact that the same principle in being the one human among bots counts when you are the last alive in general
Either way, I wouldn't mind them keeping it that way. If the Killer closes hatch (which happens about 90% of the time), your chance of getting out through the gate are, what, 4%? Not worth playing out if the Killer gets hatch first, imo…
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052195#Comment_4052195
Well if that was the only way to abandon I wouldn't have a problem but for some reason if your the last survivor in general you can abandon don't have to play for hatch or doors can just just abandon and keep your points. Which shouldn't really be a thing tbh.
That's because you're the only human Survivor player left in the match (supposedly for those situations when all of your teammates DC). Idk if it's intended for when you're actually the last Survivor alive.
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I'm glad we can skip the endgame mori, because the new Killer mori literally makes me cringe…
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@NAERUUU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052188#Comment_4052188
It's like 5 seconds, giving up at the last moment is like … uh okay why not
Well, if they're getting mori'd, the match is over anyway, so why not move on?
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The hostility in this community is just getting worse and worse. Maybe it is time to shut down the forums for good... 😢
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051629#Comment_4051629
If the Survivors know how close a TR is when someone gets downed, they can estimate where their teammates got down.
Here's the whole truth: As indicated by my first paragraph and your ignorance of it, you don't know what you're talking about, and you aren't willing to learn. Anyone who has all of these things be true of them while accusing others of being toxic is projecting. You are not worth talking to, so bye.
You're actually calling me toxic. You are a liar.
I know what I'm talking about, because I play Survivor, while you don't. I'm not interested in talking to you either, so bye.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051625#Comment_4051625
Third Seal is a hex perk that inflicts blindness upon Survivors when they are hit. The one who doesn't know jack squat is you.
And yet you implied that it hinders Survivors' ability to detect the Killer, which is not the issue. The issue is not being able to find your slugged teammates.
Also, skill issue or not, my point still stands, there is ZERO reason to bleed everyone out. You can win just as easily by hooking normally. Anyone who defends the bleedout playstyle is purely toxic, nothing more.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051609#Comment_4051609
There is if you both don't get hit and allow Third Seal to get activated and know how to interpret distance based on the Terror Radius. The Survivors failed because of a skill issue, and the Killer used that build because it allowed them to win. If that build can't be dealt with, that means that the Survivor role does not get played enough.
This post tells me that you don't even know what Third Seal does, so you are in no position to tell Survivors that they have skill issues.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051591#Comment_4051591
This post is just "I didn't have fun because I lost." You don't need to be fed second-chances to survive; you and your team needed to be more coordinated by better deciding when to go for pick-ups, sensing where the pick-ups were, and repairing generators. That, and there should be better in-game tutorials and/or Killer bots so that finding totems can be practiced.
With Third Seal, there is no sensing where the pickups are. The Doctor in that match described isn't just about "not having fun because the Survivors lost." That kind of Killer build is meant to bully the Survivors. There is ZERO reason to play for full-team bleedouts like that. If you actually defend that kind of play, then you clearly have not played Survivor.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051369#Comment_4051369
One person's mistake only causes a loss if the rest of the team continues making such mistakes. As such, Killer is more stressful because a player is alone.
What comeback mechanics?
What comeback mechanics?
Well, tunneling and slugging, for starters.
Then you've got windows being blocked after so many vaults in chase, pallets being broken, bloodlust, Survivor perks being deactivated in endgame.
Perk-wise, you've got NOED, No Way Out, Blood Warden, Remember Me, perhaps others I'm not remembering from the top of my head. And the new Killer perk (Turn Back The Clock) that regresses completed generators when only one remains.
Meanwhile, if Survivors lose a teammate early, there's nothing to help them recover from that.
"Killer more stressful than Survivor" my ###.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051359#Comment_4051359
That's called punishing mistakes and getting rewarded for it. Y'know, something that usually happens in online pvp games?
Mobility options doesn't really change this. Just wait until they are chasing a survivor across the map, you will have enough time to unhook and move away from the hook before they get back.So you're implying that unhooking a Survivor at any time (not just "too early") is a mistake. But unhooking Survivors is what we're supposed to do.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051362#Comment_4051362
Let me outright say it, then: Killer is a more stressful, punishing role than Survivor. I could gave a crap-ton of reasons why that's the case, but all I need to say, for the sake of brevity, is that said fact is supported by mathematics: Killer = each person having 100% responsibility for each mistake made, while Survivor = each person having 25% responsibility for each mistake made.
And yet a single mistake from a single Survivor can literally hand the Killer a free win. That's one of the frustrating things about Survivor, is how everyone loses when one person makes a mistake, which is out of the others' control. At least some Killers take comfort in knowing that they only need to rely on their actions alone. Killer is less stressful because they only have themselves to worry about. And all the comeback mechanics, of course, both in basekit and in perks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051350#Comment_4051350
The reason people "spam" such platforms is because those changes are unhealthy for DbD due to how they make an already stressful, punishing role even more so.
I know you're not implying that Killer is the more stressful, punishing role, because that couldn't be further from the truth.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051337#Comment_4051337
honestly agree. Too many survivors enable tunnelling by unhooking too early and they need to be held accountable rather than just removing that challenge from the game.
Kinda same with slugging really only exceptions i feel are certain killers on small maps. Otherwise its usually a result of bad positioningNo, they don't. Killers enable tunneling by going straight back to hook once they hear that unhook notification so they can immediately chase the unhooked Survivor again. And with all the Killers that have mobility and teleportation nowadays, waiting to unhook makes no difference. The Killer will be riding their bumper again in a heartbeat.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050647#Comment_4050647
i didnt say it invalidates the experience of others, if you read what i said, i actually said the opposite….experience of others is perfectly valid. I am saying using night light stats is invalid because it does not show if the survivors lost while trying or if they lost because they gave up and went next. I am also saying that providing no evidence at all not even their own experience does not counter my argument.
I am also saying that providing no evidence at all not even their own experience does not counter my argument.
That does sound like a roundabout way of saying their experiences aren't valid. And your experiences don't counter anyone else's argument either.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050491#Comment_4050491
I can declare myself the winner when I have shown evidence, your refusal to accept that evidence doesn't change anything. As previously stated, my anecdotal evidence clearly highlights the match is not over and an escape is possible. You offer not nothing to counter that argument, the best you can do is simply say "proves nothing" which tbh anyone can do if they choose to ignore the evidence.
Facts remain, I have escaped in such situations on more than 1 occasion, as others have too (just look on YouTube and you find many clips from many people)...but I'm guessing you would ignore these clips as evidence too while offering nothing show otherwise.
Why are you talking about "anecdotal evidence" like it means anything? It's just your own experience, nothing more. It doesn't invalidate the experiences of others like you're implying.
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@Life_Sux said:
Lately, the dominant survivor strategy is clear: split early, ignore interaction, and finish generators as fast as possible. It’s efficient, low-risk, and rewards minimal engagement with the killer. If that’s the meta survivors choose, then killers adapting shouldn’t be controversial.
Rushing hooks, tunneling early pressure, and prioritizing fast downs are logical responses to gen rush. A killer who spreads hooks and plays “fair” while three gens pop in four minutes is simply playing suboptimally. The game already incentivizes speed; expecting killers to slow themselves down out of courtesy makes no sense.
This isn’t about being toxic. It’s about acknowledging cause and effect. If survivors optimize for generator completion above all else, killers will optimize for removing players from the match as quickly as possible. Faster hooks create slowdown. Slower hooks lose games.
If people want longer, more interactive matches, that discussion should start with survivor strategy, not end with blaming killers for adapting.
But what else are survivors supposed to do?
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If I see all three teammates with flashlights or playing the same character, or any wearing the default cosmetics. Or if I notice my ping too high.
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Makes me wonder why we even have these forums... Maybe it's time for the forums to die...
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It sounds almost like the 5v5 mode that was proposed on a survey once, and I've been waiting for it. They proposed two teams of four Survivors and one Killer, and the Survivors would play tug-of-war on the gens. I assume the Killers would chase and hook the four Survivors of the opposing team, but they didn't specify that part. I've been wanting this idea to come to life, because I love the idea of Survivors teaming up with a Killer for a change.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045958#Comment_4045958
Than why you bring such hard words, fast gens can be achived even without toolboxes and perks if survivors spread and all work on gens while one is preasured by killer and doesnt end up on hook in few seconds, in this mode there isnt much viability for genrushing builds but there isnt gen deffence too so its random and that means not all killers are equiped with basekit that can offer fast chases that lead to down or map preasure or any kind of preasure that can slow gen speed like look at legion without chase perks or iri button he is super bad in getting downs even while being m1 killer that has one of easiest times to get the one health state off realy fas tand reliably compare to others and still he isnt that good especialy with random things or trapper and hag they need some slowdown for set up because they without set up are super bad and for other side super easy to deal with (hag or trapper with no traps set is just super easy mode for survivors especialy where these killers dont have some hel from perks like endgame slugging combo so they can get second chance).
Tunneling is with slugging two strats that can help killer get preasure back without perks when they struggle and you can denny it as much as you want but this mode only prooves it more, on other side hardcore tunneling is easier and tunneling in general due to having small chance of resistence from perks which is truth but gens are fasr easier to which makes it more equal that it realy is if survivors jump all on the start on gens and killer is chasing one than if that one survivor isnt going down fast the 2 or even 3 gens can be done and there isnt much killer without strong power or super lucky build can do to catch up than try to get someone out with tunnel so he has chance to get 2 kills at this point or slug (massive slugging isnt easy and is binded to killers power and perks/addons too like iri flesh bubba will have easier slugging time than bubba without it, dracula will have easier time to get multiple sluggs than ghostface).
That's why you drop chase if it takes more than a minute the more you chase different survivors off gens the slower gens will go it's amazing people can't understand this simple thing and keep on chasing the same survivor no matter how long it takes while the other survivors get to do gens in peace even if you use legion and constantly hit survivors with feral frenzy they have to keep mending and that keeps them off gens and that gives you more time to down them with m1's and hook them every killer has one ability whether it be dashing teleport long range trapping assistance from zombies drones guards dogs and others have instadown abilities there's really no reason you can't spread pressure other than lack of skill and you can't improve skill by tunneling.
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@iOverSpray said:
You get 202030 of those i suck so hold my hand perks. Hardly equivalent
What's ridiculous is how many posts you've made crying about Survivors.
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@runningguy said:
difference is no matter what happens there is always a way for the survivor to escape, thats the point to the hatch so no reason to give up other than laziness….there is no point in the match for a survivor where all is lost because they can always get the hatch.
killer on the other hand, there is a point of no return where tunneling wont bring it back for the killer…tunnel too late and the damage is done.
Also killers are pre-emptively striking, playing the game with the aim of winning. survivors giving up because its 2 v 1 and 5 gens left? thats not playing the game, thats not aiming to win.
a better comparison would be thats why survivors stealth first because they know what will happen if they dont (they get tunneled)….oh wait, they dont do that lol
difference is no matter what happens there is always a way for the survivor to escape, thats the point to the hatch so no reason to give up other than laziness….
Now turn around and apply that to the Killer. No matter what happens, there's always a way for the Killer to win, so no reason to tunnel other than laziness.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045970#Comment_4045970
its called pre-emptive strike, tunnel sooner rather than later, maybe because they know what will happen if they dont? you can say its a crutch but its no different than anything else someone relies on to win, be it perks, tactics, teams, maps even. Even if people have "crutched" on it for so long they dont know any other way to play, to change it now would probably mean so many people wouldnt know how to play…kill rates would likely drop…people would likely leave the game. I think its at the point where this is the game, people tunnel, people loop, people stealth, people camp, people slug, people body block. Taking the attitude of "if you cant maintain pressure in the timeframe thats given thats on you", people can say they same….if you cant counter tunneling then thats on you.
That sounds a lot like why Survivors give up, because they know what will happen if they don't.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045548#Comment_4045548
- Zero of the survivor add-ons force the game worse for survivors. If a survivor really doesn't like their random add-ons, they could just choose to drop the item.
- Most of the bad survivor perks don't force the game to be worse for survivors. For example, Invocation perks don't force the game to be worse, because the survivor can choose not to use it.
- The only survivor perk that really forces the game to be much worse is No Mither. And if people really wanted to be picky, OoO and Scene Partner could be added to the list. That is going to be 3 perks out of 167 perks. There is an extremely low chance of a survivor randomly getting at least one of those perks.
- The number of addons each killer has is sometimes 20, so if 2 of those addons forces the game to be worse for the killer, there is a MUCH MUCH HIGHER chance of a killer being stuck with an addon that forces their game to be worse.
As others have mentioned, the point of the mode is to be mostly disarmed. Survivors could get perks with horrible synergy, so at most they might get value out of one perk instead of four. Maybe two, if they're lucky. Same for Killers.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Can we get a Chaos Shuffle "select set of add-ons" list, so we know which killers are safe to play?
Because some killers have really terrible addons that make the killer much worse, and if those addons are available in Chaos Shuffle, then those killers aren't safe to play.
For example, if Plague randomly gets Prayer Tablet Fragment, or if Hag gets Scarred Hand, then the entire game is ruined before it even starts.
And before anyone says "what about survivors having to deal with no mither", I would like to remind people that randomly choosing 4 survivor perks out of a list of 155+ perks, is way different from randomly choosing 2 addons out of a list of about 20 addons.
How do you define "safe to play?"
Killers get terrible perks and add-ons, Survivors get terrible perks and add-ons. Everyone wins.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045400#Comment_4045400
I think you completely missed the context of this reply, but w/e ;)
The person this was meant for does not know how to analyze the data, The raw data does not speak favorable to his own mindset, So intead of meeting me halfway he just discredits the entire source. Therefor I said in different words 'Typical tactics for ppl with an agenda'.
I can see however how you could have misread that, so I forgive you ;)
If that's all you meant, then the word "manipulating" threw me off. "Manipulating" data suggests that you were trying to change or twist it to fit your argument, and at that point, the data becomes a lie.
Anyway, I have to agree with Pulsar. It seems to be an argument of which data source is more reliable. If NL only records 10,000 per month, and the official site records 10,000 per hour, that's a total of 720,000 games not counted on NL. That is a LOT of data to discard. Why would you trust a site that trashes that much data?
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045386#Comment_4045386
Spoken like someone who does not know how to manipulate said stats to their agenda.
If we were talking about 1 month of NL stats, I would agree. Heck even 3 months, I'd still agree. But we have YEARS of consistent data that never shifted. If you understand how to analyse data, you will understand your argument is empty.
I rly don't understand the obsession to discredit NL stats. What is the point? Don't we all want DBD to become better than it currently is? Then why run this weird agenda that completely contradicts these stats?
"Manipulating stats to your agenda" kind of renders your entire argument moot.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045164#Comment_4045164
its only not comparable because you say tunneling is guarantee win which it is not or all tunnelers would win every match and i can assure you they dont based on me tunneling as killer and based on killers tunneling in my survivors matches.
At some point people need to acknowledge skill issue….use stealth better.
If the time comes that tunneling is against the rules or gets nerfed to the point its useless (it wont) then your made up rules might have a standing. untill that point, killers will do what they need to do and will not take your rulebook into consideration. Its up to you to adapt, to be prepared to do the things i do, throw out your moral compass and do what you need to do to counter it. Your choice at the end of the day, keep get beaten down by tunnelers or make a stand and adapt. It can be done, im doing it, survivors do it sometimes in my killer matches.
There's no skill issue. Tunneling is busted, period. And you've become so reliant on tunneling that it's poisoned your mindset. You won't acknowledge that it's a skill issue, you're not willing to adapt and improve, and you chide Survivors about their made-up rules when you made up the rule that playing in a SWF is considered cheating. If anyone has the double-standard here, it's you.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045156#Comment_4045156
- alternate routes can be longer or shorter….some paths need a boost to be able to access the shorter route, these by definition are shortcuts, shortest route to the finish line. With this in mind you would be ok with people these alternate routes even if they are shorter than the main track?
- i really dont think you can be saying anything about stunting growth as a player when you stunt your growth at every available opportunity by creating your own set of rules. going on your basis anyone using perks or items are stunting their growth, they should be winning matches without these things…relying on them is holding people back.
- When a killer knows that spreading hooks is too hard, they have the choice….tunnel and pick up a win or not tunnel and take the loss. choosing to not tunnel is intentionally throwing a win into a loss.
- It is made up rules, you have made them up. bhvvr has not made these rules up, you did. bhvr could say tunneling is reportable but they dont because it is allowed. But your rules say it shouldnt be…..your rules based on your opinion. Like i said, you play by your rules if you want but dont expect people to play by your rules, when the killer tunnels you its your own rules you set yourself that limits your ability to counter it. Self imposed. Its like me playing perkless trapper limiting myself to using 1 trap only and then complaining that survivors are op and need to be nerfed because i struggle with the limits i set myself.
Survivor gameplay isn't Killer gameplay. Using items does not guarantee a win for them like tunneling guarantees a win for Killers, so that's comparing apples to oranges.
If it was just me, you would have a point. But you have people who use all the anti-tunnel perks, and Killers tunnel right through them. That shows how busted tunneling is.
Just think of all the other strong stuff that got nerfed despite all the counterplay. Why did Dead Hard get nerfed? Because it was too strong. Why did MFT get nerfed? Because it was too strong. Why did FTP+Buckle Up get nerfed? Because it was too strong. Why did COH get nerfed? Because it was too strong. All of those had counterplay, but were still too strong to remain in the game as they were.
It's well past time for tunneling to receive the same treatment.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045142#Comment_4045142
Your previous post stated not tunneling is not losing intentionally….if tunneling is so effective and busted then your actually asking the killer to not use the tactic that gives them wins. Ye i dont think everyone intentionally puts themselves at a disadvantage as you seem to do, thats why killers tunnel, not doing so can put the killer at a disadvantage.
You consider a shortcut in mario kart cheating?? the game has multiple routes players can take lol literally part of the track design and you consider it cheating…wow. If this is how you view pvp games then good luck to you because not many will share your view and they certainly will not follow your requests to play by your made up rules. i think its clear your losses or struggles are self made because you created this imaginary rule book which you follow but not many people will follow your rules. Bottom line is, this is not your game, not your rules. You play how you want but be prepared to lose or not have as much fun due to your own self made rules and restrictions which apply only to you
Those aren't shortcuts, they're just alternate routes. Cutting through the middle of the track, NOT taking those alternate routes you speak of, is cheating.
Tunneling may give you wins, but it also stunts your growth as Killer. You're not improving, you're not learning anything about the game or the Killer you're playing as. When you actually spread the hooks and the pressure, you might lose some games, but that's not intentionally losing, is it? When you stand there and just let the Survivors do their thing, that is intentionally losing. It's not just made up rules, it's ruining the game as a whole, and it needs to be addressed.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045144#Comment_4045144
whats wrong with the candelabra? they are just super cozy and warm. plus uou can wave them in each others faces. you can completely ignore them if you want.
The biggest problem was that they cluttered the chests too much. It was extremely rare to get anything else in the chests. The other big problem was that they allowed the Killer to track Survivors more easily. The only thing I found them useful for was marking the locations of exit gates.
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I liked Lights Out (the first iteration, not the second). They should delete the candelabras and let Survivors see the auras of gens.
I'm also still waiting for the 5v5 mode, where is it??
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045087#Comment_4045087
its bold but true because you were found… stealth means not being found which you failed at. true you never know if people are stream sniping or not, im willing to bet many do and you just dont know about it or you cant prove it. The point is, you intentionally handicapping yourself yet again and dont like it when the killer gets the upper hand….atleast in part, thats on you for willingly and knowingly choosing to put yourself at a disadvantage.
your still avoiding the mario kart question….would you play with random people in a matchmaking and expect them to follow your made up rules? no shortcuts or no using a certain item, because you deem it unfair or unfun. Or any game for that matter…. would you play something like chess and make up rules stating "you cant get checkmate unless all pawns are removed from the board too"? Based on your unwritten rules that you make up, this sounds like somthing a child would ask, it does not sound like something an adult would suggest…. maybe if it was universally agreed upon between friends yes, but v random people? no.
Even if I didn't fail, I still would have died, because tunneling is just that busted. Otherwise, the anti-tunnel perks would actually work. And then the Killers would have stopped a long time ago. Tunneling is a cancer that is harming the game as a whole for both roles. If by whatever miracle Survivors are countering your tunneling, then you absolutely deserve to be teabagged at the exit gates.
Use certain items, fine. Shortcuts, no, that's just cheating. It makes no difference if it's technically allowed in the game.
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@EbonyChess said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044907#Comment_4044907
It makes no sense. What did you expect him to do? Lose intentionally to bring his mmr down?
Not tunneling is not "losing intentionally."
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045050#Comment_4045050
the skill level is irrelevant, the bubba wasnt skilled but neither am i so increase the skill level of both of us and its the same situation. Again the fact he wasnt tunneling is irrelevant because he COULD have tried to tunnel….he may have if he could catch me thats the point, he didnt, he couldnt….how? because he couldnt catch me. If he didnt drop chase he would have ended up losing the match and getting 1k. why would killers use this tactic that loses them the match? they often wouldnt because they use tunneling to win. You know this.
As for the nemesis match your skill level failed you…. or rather your stealth skills failed you. Thats something to work on which would help counter tunneling because if the killer didnt find you then you would have countered the tunneling attempt. If your advertising your streaming then you cant be surprised if they stream snipe, your just making things harder for yourself and you really dont need to. If your going to stream you then expect the killer to be seeing it…. or dont stream if you want to actually want to win.
The mario kart example has nothing to do with cpu opponents, its a multiplayer game….. real people racing eachother so no idea where the cpu point comes from. Would you make up rules like "dont take short cuts" when racing real people? or maybe "dont use the lightning bolt"? This is what you are doing in dbd, playing against real people and giving them your own made up rules on how they should or shouldnt play.
Pretty bold to say my skill or stealth failed me without actually seeing it. You're also forgetting that the game is designed so that Killers will get you eventually, regardless of skill. If I shared that match, would you be able to tell me what I should have done better, or just differently? I doubt it.
Stream sniping is quite rare, and pretty impossible to tell is even happening. We can suspect it's happening, sure, but we can never know. Maybe that Nemesis did just follow my pools of blood, and Survivors don't really have a way to hide those, apart from running No Mither.
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@joeyspeehole said:
I liked it better when the hooks would shift immediately when the killer got here. I understand that some people, including me, would complain about how it sucked when you were about to die on the hook and it would move you all the way across the map when somebody tried to save you, but that can easily be resolved with hooks not moving if a survivor is really close. Killers will still be able to somewhat proxy camp and then attack converging survivors. I don’t see how it would negatively affect killers. I’m not a fan of how long it takes for the hook to move with the killer nearby.
This is part of why I say we need some form of Kindred in 2v8. Maybe just show Survivors who are within 36-48 meters of the cage. That way, someone will know to stay away in case the cage respawns elsewhere on the map.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045020#Comment_4045020
tunneling is counterable so the only way the survivor gets eliminated is if they are not good enough at stealth, not good enough at looping, not good enough at losing line of sight. You make it sound like tunneling is 100% death for that survivor that gets tunneled but thats not the case at all, i even showed in the bubba match that looping long enough can make the killer either give up chase. Therefor tunneling does not remove the struggling at all. i have been tunneled myself, hard tunneled at 5 gens. i have been able to escape due to team mates doing gens or i have lost line of sight and put a stop to the tunneling forcing the killer to find someone else.
I really do think people need to stop the blame game and take responsibility for their own decision, their own skill, their own role of choice, their own tactics and not expect the opponent to play according to some unwritten rules someone has made up.
Think mario kart for example…if im racing im going to take every shortcut i can. To ask me to race but dont take shortcuts is absurd and something i would expect a child to say. Enough with the unwritten rules.
As others have pointed out in that other thread, that Bubba wasn't very skilled, so it didn't take much skill to loop him. He also wasn't tunneling, so that video did nothing to prove that tunneling was counterable. If that's the average Killer you get, I can see how you'd think it's counterable. If that Bubba was seriously tunneling, he wouldn't have dropped the chase, no matter how much you looped him.
I got hard tunneled by a Nemesis the other day. I looped the hell out of him, but he never dropped the chase. A teammate bodyblocked after my second hook and even got downed, but the Killer ignored him and kept coming after me. I even gained enough distance to try stealth, got into a locker, waited for his terror radius to fade. But he still found me before I could get healed. So either he followed my pools of blood, heard my grunts of pain or maybe even stream-snipped, who knows? In the end, even after all of that, I still died. The teammates escaped though, so good for them. That's the best outcome against a Killer who tunnels, but still not good for the tunneled Survivor.
As for Mario Kart, sure, the CPU opponents aren't going to care if you take shortcuts, so by all means, go wild.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044985#Comment_4044985
once again you are showing double standards by suggesting the fastest way to kill is a shortcut but refusing to acknowledge the equivalent being survivors bringing full gen build and toolboxes being the exact same thing (optimal method of completing the objective).
You using S tier killers to try and prove that killers can just "run faster"? really? there are far more killers with low mobility than there are with high speed and teleport ability.
You also ignoring the core issue, you want killers to not play in a way that is effective yet you never suggest survivors should do the same by playing in a way that is not effective. You seem to disapprove of killers trying to win but also wanting survivors to win without trying. I repeat my previous point… killers are the power role and should be easier. survivors are the underdogs and should struggle. For a horror game it makes far more sense for survivors to struggle to escape than a killer struggling to kill. I believe this is where people are getting frustrated, they think surviving should be as easy as getting kills. They want to be able to stand toe to toe with a killer and not struggle, be able to loop with ease, to not even try to counter the most common effective killer tactics intentionally not bringing the appropriate perks and still be able to counter it. This is not what dbd is, and the day survivors are able stand toe to toe with the killer and not struggle is the day dbd dies.
Put simply, know your role, pick your role and accept your role for what it is. Survivor role should be a struggle so people need to accept that when they decide on that role.
Yeah, we like to struggle, but tunneling even removes that. The tunneled Survivor gets eliminated, and the other three get to push the gens without the struggle. There is no double standard here.
Yes, Killers are supposed to be the power role, but they're not supposed to be My Little Oni.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044931#Comment_4044931
Ye im not sure how you run faster when the killer has no speed ability. shortcut is quickest route….being as dbd is a race, gens v kills, think of it as a racing game. If a driver takes the shortcuts that are allowed by the rules of the race and another driver decides not to take shortcuts then the one taking shortcuts will probably win by racing optimally. You dont have to like it that the other racers are taking the shortcuts but this is part of the game and you can take shortcuts too, you can gen rush for example. But saying a shortcut isnt optimal is just wrong, because it clearly is playing optimally if it gets good results. Its crazy how many people are willing to say "dont tunnel, dont kill too fast, when im hooked do something else, go for someone else" but then they are baffled when the killer says "dont do gens too fast, after 1 or 2 have popped take your time, stop doing your objective so well." Likewise it works both ways, killers shouldnt complain about gen speeds if they are not willing to tunnel essentially playing less efficiently than they could be.
killers are expected to improve, part of the improvement is learning new ways to play, new tactics. Not only that but killers have to succeed in downing the survivor to start with which is the skill part, take too long to down someone and not even tunneling can pull it back if people do gens. That being said Survivor is supposed to be the harder role, the devs have even said this multiple times. Its a horror game where 1 killer is a force to be reckoned with and the 4 survivors have to struggle to survive and escape. This is the game that was created and has been since day one. It is not 4 survivors have to escape while the killer struggles to get a kill. It makes it sound like a joke when its said in that way.
What "shortcuts" do the Survivors have? Genrushing isn't a shortcut. Spreading hooks puts a stop to that real quick. Tunneling out the first Survivor also puts a stop to that real quick. Slugging everyone puts a stop to that real quick, and then the game is over. What equivalent do the Survivors have?
Killers have no speed ability? They're always faster than Survivors at base, even before bloodlust comes into play. And all those dashing Killers (Blight, Nurse, Wesker, etc.) and all those teleporting Killers would like a word.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044958#Comment_4044958
To be fair if the Killer manages to
- find a survivor
- hit him twice, while the Survivor got a Sprint for getting hit
- picks them up
- carrys them to the hook and hooking them
- waits till the survivor gets unhooked (this can take up to 70 seconds)
- hits the borrowed time which gives a sprint burst again
- downs the survivor again
- picks them up again
- carrys them to the hook and hooking them again
- and repeats all that for a third time
and still no Gen is done. Well… either the game was missmatched from the start or your mates did nothing at all.
Aunt Edith says: Remember this is the first chase aswell, which means the whole map is still intact.
Yes, all of this is a problem. What would your solution be? Assuming you have no communication with your solo queue teammates...