Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554842#Comment_3554842
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554839#Comment_3554839
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554862#Comment_3554862
My entity, you guys trying to prove math wrong is exhausting.
The problem: We need to get all killers and survivors have the same chance of winning. How we do that?
The solution: Lets start with the mathematical fact:
The mathematical average for that will be 2.4 survivors killed, meaning 40% of survivors escaped on average, and killers are only getting 3K 40% of the time on average, while the rest they would only do a 2K, meaning they are not winning. If it was 50%, that would be 2 survivors killed per game on average, meaning killers are never winning while survivors are winning 50% of their games. If it was 70%, that would be 2.8 survivors killed per match on average, which would mean survivors are winning 30% of their games, while killers are winning almost every game they play (as they would be doing 3K in most of their games).
So, the only way to get mathematical equality in win rates is by having a 60% average kill rate and every one of the 33 killers doing a 2.4K per match on average so everybody has a 40%. In other words, the closer we get to this numbers, the more balanced is the game.
Now, how we get to that in practice:
60% kill rate means 40% win rate for survivors. We get all killers across the board to a point where that kill rate on average is achieved by either general buffs or nerfs to killers and/or survivors (something that they already achieved the last time they officially announced kill rates) and done. 40% win rate for survivors side achieved, which will means that some survivors are escaping more than 40% of the time, and other are escaping less. Or in other words, skilled survivors would be winning more games, as every single one of them has the same chances of winning than everybody else.
Now, how we get so every single killer do a 2.4K per match? By buffing, or nerfing, each killer individually until they are close to that 2.4K on average. Which will have the same implications as with survivors, meaning that some people with the same killer would be able to kill more survivors than other.
With that done, as Thanos would say, "perfect balance". Everybody has the same chance to win and if you don't is either because you are not good enough or your rival outsmarted you, not because the game favors any side or specific killer. This is the sole reason of BHVR wanting to have a 60% kill rate and if I have to guess, why the MMR system works how it works in the first place.
Now, any of you either bring empirical proof of how the math or the practical method to achieve what the math says is wrong, or accept reality for good already.
None of your math is relevant at all. BHVR had an official post stating that 59% to 61% killrate is ideal. That's it. That's all the evidence you need for what the ideal kill rate is. You don't need to do any math at all. You can just directly quote BHVR.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533082#Comment_3533082
1, fair point - I exaggerated with 2px hole, but still the hole does not need to be even close to the size of hatchet
2, this is it - huntress needs to angle herself, xeno does not have to. This is huge during chase as you leave much less chances for survivor to get away
3, ok. If we limit it to the effect of dragging only, then my point 2 is all that is relevant. And maybe one point for you is, that xeno can't orbital strike (but c'mon, nobody uses this reliably - it's just a fun thing u can do when you get so lucky and it works). Still - it's much easier to hit reliably say over car loops w xeno then with huntress (because hubtress gets her hatchet consumed by edge of top of the car so damn often or it flies over, where xeno has it trivial to overshoot and drag down a little)
I've still seen zero evidence that dragging Xeno's tail attack causes it to curve. Any attack I've seen done by tail dragging, looks like it could have been done without the tail dragging.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554009#Comment_3554009
I thought it was crouching on opposite sides of dropped pallets and vaults but that doesn't work. People say theres a wind up noise or something but I never hear it.
Crouching behind a dropped pallet shouldn't work, because if the survivor is crouched on the higher side of the pallet, the killer can just be on the lower side of the pallet, so the survivor is at a diagonal angle, and a lot of their survivor is visible to the killer. Below is a picture, to show how much of a survivor is visible, if the killer is positioned correctly...
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554803#Comment_3554803
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554807#Comment_3554807
And the short explanation is it is the only way to get an equal 40% win rate on average for survivors and every single killer. If you want the math, why and how, again, they are in this thread.
We can't assume the number of kills follows a normal distribution. There is zero evidence it follows a normal distribution, and yes, I reviewed your math, and it's wrong.
The same problem is happening on a different thread on these forums, involving the average number of pallets on a map, where someone wrongfully assumed the number of pallets follows an even distribution, and therefore wrongfully decided the average number of pallets = (min number of pallets + max number of pallets) / 2.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552251#Comment_3552251
60% is ballanced?
Adam Ries is turning upside down in his grave :(
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554779#Comment_3554779
Multiple post explaining why 60% kill rate is balanced in this thread, go read them.
Yes, 60% is balanced, and above is the official BHVR post telling us that 59% to 61% is where they want the kill rate.
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The above official BHVR post, explains they want the kill rate to hover around 59% to 61%.
This means that if the kill rate is currently lower than 59% to 61%, then BHVR should be making game changes to raise the kill rate back up to 59% to 61%.
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Lery's is Blight's worst map. There are some maps with broken collision problems, but we can just avoid trying to M2 off those objects. We can't ignore how awful it is to navigate Lery's with Blight's M2 power, if the survivors are purposely stacking as many line of sight breakers as possible.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552139#Comment_3552139
So we can expect some changes for Saloon and Midwich?
Yes. Can we please change the main building in Saloon, to remove all the lockers that are on narrow paths, because SWFs are purposely looping people on these narrow paths, so they can make unavoidable head on plays.
And can we change the main building in Saloon, so that boil over / sabotage SWFs can stop running into the side room on the 2nd floor? Maybe add some hooks in the main building, or give the killer more ways to get from those 2nd floor side rooms to the ground?
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552232#Comment_3552232
I know about the bug fix on PTB that fixed survivors from screaming inside lockers but what's the first patch you're mentioning that made UW's tracking weaker?
The original Ultimate weapon revealed a survivor even if they had calm spirit, and that got removed.
@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552232#Comment_3552232
No, Ultimate weapon had a bug fix that made it work properly
Ultimate weapon was made weaker. It doesn't matter what the official reason was. I'm not even using the "buff" word, so you can't just throw questionable word definitions at me. I'm literally saying the perk was made weaker, which is objectively true.
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Ultimate weapon already had a patch that made its tracking weaker, and the PTB contains another change that makes its tracking weaker.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551635#Comment_3551635
Because what good does that do? You find your target anyway. As I said - I do understand when you are talking huntress/nurse, because they can directly convert aura to hit. But for most other killers auras = you find survivor. UW = you find survivors more often (30s to find with 30s cooldown is VERY generous), more reliably (search in whole moving TR for freaking 30s is probably most benevolent condition so far) and without meta counter (no distortion). What's so hard to understand in that one?
Because finding a survivor, and getting into a close ranged chase with a survivor, can be very different.
Survivors revealed by ultimate weapon will very often immediately run away and hide, and by the time you get to where they were during the scream reveal, they’ve already gone somewhere else to hide.
And many other killers understand this difference too, which is why aura reading perks are still more popular than ultimate weapon.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551892#Comment_3551892
Funny how As Soon As Possible sounds like you drop everything in your hands to work on just that, but it does not.
As Soon As Possible does sound like it means "very high priority".
"After the anti 3-gen mechanic" doesn't sound very ASAP to me.
And I wouldn't expect ASAP to literally mean "drop everything else", because some projects have a mandatory release schedule, like the new chapters. But the anti 3-gen mechanic does not have a mandatory release schedule, so it should be possible to give it a lower priority than the FoV slider.
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@Emeal said:
Well according to the plan it should be after a full 3gen protection system has been implemented after the anti-camp system.
That doesn't sound very ASAP.
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@caipt said:
well last time they said late 20203/early 2024. how long did visual TR take...?
The visual TR took a while, but I don't think it was ever marked as ASAP. Survivors were also given a massively buffed Spine chill as a temporary solution, which told survivors how far away killers were, down to the smallest millimeter, which is way more information than an audio terror radius gives.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551510#Comment_3551510
It's new perk that is behind paywall. Give it some time.
I can tell from my games, that UW gives me BY FAR greatest value as tracking perk and this even does not take into account blindness effect that's on top of it. Like sure - as I already mentioned there are exceptions for some killers. But generally speaking? this one is by huge margin best tracking perk
I’m not sure why you refuse to recognize that many killers would rather have aura reading, because aura reading happens for multiple seconds at a time, and it doesn’t alert the survivor that they are being tracked.
Yes, ultimate weapon is a strong perk, but it doesn’t “completely overshadow” the other tracking perks.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3551449#Comment_3551449
I still think MfT is not that good - hence I never use it. It looks like my view on the thing is unique so let's leave it at that.
As for darkness revealed and balanced landing - I consider both perks very fine. Been using both of them and I consider both of them strong (actually when playing survivor BL is my go-to exhaustion should I decide to drop background player for less altruistic play). I think sprint/lither/nowhere to hide are really strong perks that are just fine the way they are. They don't need nerf, but are on a higher-end spectrum.
But UW from my point of view just does too much and not counting some specific cases (like nurse/huntress that actually benefit greatly from wallhacks instead of just finding survivors reliably, or killers that don't really have TR like ghostface/meyers/freddy). It's like why would I take any other tracking perk when UW exists? It's lethal pursuer for short time investment + perma location to all survivors that can't be blocked with meta-blocking perk for same perk slot investment. And that does not even factor in blindness status effect.
Ultimate weapon’s pick rate is still 4th place for killer tracking perks.
So we clearly still have many killers that think it’s valuable to bring other tracking perks.
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@Rudjohns said:
That means 2 survivors are not on gens
If you are chasing one then the other one is trailing behind
Would you prefer a coordinated gen rush instead?
(not saying the perk combo is "fair" or "healthy", it's just an honest question)
You should be comparing a coordinated gen rush with a coordinated buckle up + FTP combo. This means the 2nd survivor can repair generators until the 1st survivor says they are running out of resources and needs help, and it means the two survivors can coordinate a meetup spot that’s not too far away from the 2nd survivor. This means the generator repair downtime for the 2nd survivor is minimal, and extending a chase is far more valuable than staying on a generator.
This also places killers in lose/lose situations, where the killer can’t search the area for teammates that might flashlight save or pallet save, because if they leave the survivor, then a teammate might run over to instantly pick them up. But if the killer instantly picks up the survivor, they might get hit with a flashlight save or a pallet save. And this makes it much more valuable for a 2nd survivor to be away from a generator.
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I main Dwight, because he has a wide variety of cosmetics that were given out in rifts, and given out in events, so I got them for free. Dwight also has a lot of cheap (yellow rarity and green rarity) outfits, that actually have a variety to them. Many newer survivors just have a bunch of recolor outfits, unless it an expensive (purple rarity or higher) outfit.
This means that when I buy a cosmetic, I have a wide variety of outfits to mix and match with it. And yes, this means that I hate almost all the linked sets, because I want to mix and match the pieces, and I can't.
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@B_O_I said:
It exists, I think there might be a few videos, and reddit and forum posts on it. I know for a fact you can curve it over the cars in Badham. Haven't done it too much elsewhere.
I still haven’t seen any current videos. I’ve seen completely made up pictures, and I’ve seen PTB videos that don’t count because BHVR super nerfed the tail’s hitbox when Xeno went to the live servers.
Xeno’s tail attack has been heavily nerfed, and many attacks that would have hit on the PTB, will miss on the current live servers.
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@B_O_I said:
I'm concerned about how Xenomorph might be nerfed or tweaked in the future. As someone who has played the killer for the last few days, I can confirm that the tail is a bit strong, but from what I heard, the noise from generators is getting reduced or removed outright in tunnels. Personally, not something I agree with, as it makes gen-patrol (i.e. what killers SHOULD do instead of tunneling) harder than it should be. On the other hand, the tail can completely curve over certain obstacles which doesn't feel or look right, but is 100% possible on certain loops. All it takes is a bit of finesse with the attack box, and maybe a higher cool down.
TLDR please don't make generator patrol harder, instead, the tail needs some fine-tuning.
I’ve still seen zero evidence that the tail attack can be curved.
The closest evidence I could find, was a video where someone didn’t understand that healthy and injured survivors have the same hitbox, which means that you can sometimes hit a survivor that you can’t see, because the head’s hitbox is within line of sight even though the head itself is tilted forward and not in line of sight.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549433#Comment_3549433
I'm not even sure this isn't a parody post. Rewind the clock just over a year ago. Survivors had 5 second decisive strikes that worked the entire match, they had full power dead hard with iframes and distance gained, medkits could heal players multiple times at twice the speed of being healed by a teammate, plus all the little killer buffs with the 6.1 patch. All the recent killers destroy loops, reducing survivors chases to prethrow and press 'w'.
I am sorry this is the golden age for killers, and if you aren't experiencing that maybe you are at the highest possible MMR and facing the absolutely cracked survivors every match. What I think is more likely is that you more likely mid - tier killer that has a skill issue.
Most of the survivor buffs your complaining about, behavior had to add to counter toxic killer behaviors: Camping & tunnelling,
Those weren't player experience changes. Those were survivor nerfs designed to move the kill rate. And that's the issue. Survivors get player experience buffs, and killers just get kill rate adjustments.
The worst part is BHVR talks about kill rate adjustments as if it's their special gift to killers, when it's literally a mandatory thing they need to do.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549433#Comment_3549433
If BHVR wants to cater to Survivors, why have Survivors received so many Nerfs since 2016?
Why did they not keep Infinites in the game? Or Perks in their base state? No Exhaustion, but Perks on 20 second Cooldown?
Because player experience buffs aren't the same things as the kill rate.
BHVR has stated multiple times that the important thing for killers is the kill rate. (As if it
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BHVR absolutely makes scratchmark changes, that aren't listed in any patch notes. Some of the scratchmark implementations made it much easier to follow scratchmarks, so BHVR knows how to make reliable scratchmarks.... but instead we purposely get scratchmark implementations (like we do now), where it's sometimes purposely confusing to track scratchmarks.
The scratchmark implementation they secretly tested out on the Alien PTB was absolutely horrible, and I can't imagine how anyone thought those were acceptable scratchmarks.
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548198#Comment_3548198
I see so it still happens but there is no weird animation going on?
Correct. BHVR band-aid fixed grabs with a forced short M1 attack, told us they would later fix grabs for real, and never actually got to the "fix grabs for real"
Here's the official post!
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548000#Comment_3548000
I don't remember the last time of being denied grabs. This was more of the issue for me before the servers came.
And I play stealth killers often when I play killer.
Missed grabs are hidden now, where you do a forced short M1 attack, instead of the missed grab animation.
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@Shaped said:
Any examples when latency works in surv favor? I don't want to start anything or deny what you people say but when hitboxes look stupid and you add latency on top of that you can't blame people for being annoyed with this.
Cutting corners and being hit is very annoying to experience. Only equivalent for me is when my camera moves on its own while I play killer on console because survivor is spining.
The forced short M1 attack mechanic stealing hits from the killer, is latency working in survivor favor. Missed grabs are also latency working in the survivor favor. And both problems happen because of double validation.
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@JudithMorel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544895#Comment_3544895
you mean just remove endurance? lol how would mft work if it CAUSES you to be exhausted? its designed as a static perk and currently doesnt work if exhausted. the only way i can see the perk working as another exhaustion perk is if they made it give a set amount of seconds of 3% haste in exchange for exhaustion.
“If the survivor is injured, and not exhausted, MFT activates. (Insert MFT effect here). MFT remains active for as long as the survivor remains injured. When MFT actives, the survivor becomes exhausted, and the exhaustion timer doesn’t start until MFT deactivates”.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544579#Comment_3544579
Good thing I never said it was the ONLY reason he got that hit. I will say I agree with the point that he could've got the hit without it but it doesn't change the facts; the player used it to get the hit. You can't deny that, it's factual.
Even then, all I said was you can't call this stuff "ok" and expect survivors to actually anticipate it and play against it. That's insane and makes 0 sense to me.
You can expect survivors to anticipate that Blight could have looped that room, in an intended way. It's not even a "tech" to loop that room normally. It's just normal pathing at 90 degree angles.
And I never said the gliding geometry in the video is ok. I just said it's not an excuse to spread false information. Anyway, I'm done here.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544553#Comment_3544553
It doesn't matter lol
He shouldn't be able to do it in the first place, I get what you're trying to say but I don't get why you're defending Blight being able to break the rules of the game like this.
The argument that people are making, is that the geometry gliding is the reason Blight got that hit, and therefore geometry gliding is making Blight more powerful than he should be. This is false.
If people want the geometry gliding to be removed because it's probably unintended, then that's fine. But they shouldn't be spreading false information that the geometry gliding is the reason Blight got that hit. The fact that Blight has a collision problem, isn't an excuse to spread false information.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544531#Comment_3544531
Again
I already said staying in an open room vs Blight is a bad idea
But it doesn't change the fact you seriously cannot ever expect survivor players to think in their heads "maybe this blight will somehow glide on top of map geomtry and hit me". I'm gonna repeat myself, that's completely ridiculous.
Again
Blight didn't need to glide on top of map geometry to get that hit. There is another path, literally to the right of where Blight glided, that Blight could have traveled on, and still have gotten the same hit. Do you understand that the geometry gliding was just for show, and wasn't necessary at all?
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544306#Comment_3544306
Yeah I'm sure the survivor had the foresight to go
"Hm yes, I must go into this room because Blight can jump off of an elevated location and, using his overtuned speed addons, casually glide on top of map geomtry"
Like yeah I agree staying in the open area vs a Blight is a bad idea regardless but you seriously can't think this kind of thing is something players will ever account for. It's ridiculous.
Blight didn't need to glide on top of map geometry though. Instead of showing off, Blight could have dropped down, rushed to the right of the hook, bounced off the wall, and still have gotten the hit.
The survivor shouldn't have continued looping in the giant room, no excuses. A survivor choosing to stay in the big giant room, that's super easy for Blight to navigate with his M2, shows that the survivor really doesn't understand how Blight's M2 works at all.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544375#Comment_3544375
Thank you so much for answering even though I asked if you could do something off-topic, I really appreciate it. I honestly agree with everything you said and I see your points. I think sometimes the forum just shows one side of the story and it's hard to get a full picture of other players.
It really means a lot that you actually took time to share that with me. Even though sometimes debates get heated there's value to what everyone is saying. I hope I never made you upset in any way!🤞
Thanks. As a bonus piece of trivia, I really would like for ALL of Blight's collision bugs to be fixed. I'd gladly trade hug tech, for actual functioning reliable collision, that doesn't break when an object sticks out above Blight's shoulders or below Blight's waist.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544286#Comment_3544286
@Coffeecrashing I have a challenge for you and I know this is going to challenge you so much. Even if it's off-topic I want to hear your answer because I want to think your commentary is valuable.
Is there anything you would add to this game or change about it that would be considered a "buff" to survivors and a "nerf" to killers? It can be anything and everything. I'm really curious about your answer. Because whenever I read your comments it's extremely one-sided that it comes across very perplexing after a while.
1) The frequent ragequitters should get matched with each other, so they don't ruin the games of the players that actually want to play every game. In my killer games, an early ragequit is pretty much a guaranteed loss for the survivors, even with the wallhack bots that BHVR created. One of the biggest gaps between solo and SWF is the fact that in a SWF, you're not getting games ruined by random teammates early ragequitting.
2) Nerf the perks that encourage "lone wolf" strategies, like Wake up, Left Behind, Sole Survivor, and Low Profile. Another big gap between solo and SWF, is that in a SWF, all the players actually want to work as a team. In contrast, Lone Wolf survivors are perfectly happy lowering their team's survival rate, so they can personally survive the match. For Lone Wolf survivors, a 3k where they escape is far more important than a 1k where they lose the match... and these Lone Wolf survivors often lower the escape rate of their team, because they're not even trying to get all the generators repaired, and instead they just want to excessively hide until all the other survivors are dead. Maybe match "lone wolf" survivors with each other, so they can ruin each other's games.
3) Yes, I think that survivors excessively hiding is problem in solo q, for survivors too. When I'm playing survivor, I shouldn't feel like I'm being punished for trying to repair generators, because my teammates are excessively hiding, and therefore the killer decided to tunnel me because they can't find anyone else. Excessively hiding can be fine for survivors in a SWF, where everyone is coordinated and all agree on the strategy. But excessively hiding is yet another solo q problem that encourages killers to tunnel the survivors that aren't excessively hiding.
4) There really should some solution, so that survivors that actually want to win a game aren't getting matched with survivors that are fine with throwing the entire game for a Rift challenge. Yes; it is a big solo q issue, when only 3 survivors are actually trying to repair generators, because the 4th survivor is literally spending 5-10 minutes trying to find and cleanse all 5 totems for their Rift challenge. I have no idea how this idea should be implemented.
5) I still, to this day, do not understand why the Myers instakill addons haven't been removed, considering how many times Pig got nerfed over and over and over, to make her headpop potential severely lower than before. And the instakill addons don't even work on survivors that know what they are doing, after the survivors figure out that Myers has an instakill addon. Yes, we know that we can jump in a locker, repeatedly vault a pallet, or repeatedly vault a window, to stop the instakill (and if it's the last generator, we might even just repair the generator right in front of the killer, to give us instakill immunity until the generator is 100% repaired). The whole Myers instakill mechanic is garbage, and should be removed.
6) I think the matchmaking needs to stop having ridiculously lopsided matchmaking scenarios. There's zero reason that some of my killer games are against survivors that literally have zero idea how to play against my killer. Does the game do this on purpose, so that players can take turns feeling like they played awesome, and really feel like they stomped all over their opponents? Or is this happening because my survivor queues are so long that BHVR is just throwing survivors in any game possible, instead of waiting for a good match? I know people like to blame lobby dodging for this issue, but I really don't think this problem is 100% the fault of lobby dodging.
7) I think there should be some in game solution, that makes it much easier for solo q survivors to find other players to SWF with. Maybe a better friends list solution, better ways to chat with each other outside of games, and yes, add in game voice chat specifically for SWFs, so PC players can easily voice chat with console players (or console players can easily voice chat with players on a different console), because many console players don't have Discord properly set up to work with their console. To be super clear, solo q should never get in game voice chat, because random solo q survivors can be VERY AWFUL in voice chat to their teammates.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544266#Comment_3544266
Do you think those were intended things? DPI scaling, 180 degree turn in 1 frame, no-cap turns... Those are fixes not nerfs.
Anything that makes a killer weaker is a nerf. It doesn't matter why the changes were made.
You're confusing cause and effect. If a bug fix occurs, that is the CAUSE of the change, and a nerf is the EFFECT of the change. Things can be nerfs and bugfixes at the same time.
And besides, if you want to get unnecessarily picky about words, I could just say Blight was made weaker 5 times. Yes, BHVR has made Blight weaker multiple times, so we shouldn't pretend that Blight has remained the same power level that he had before all the the changes that made Blight weaker.
And if we really really want to get picky, you do realize that some of these changes weren't in the bug fix section of the official DBD patch notes, right? For example, the large turn angle nerf was in the Balance section of the official patch notes, so you can't even call it a bug fix with your definition of "bug fix"
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The nerfs actually happened though....
1) Blight got a nerf that prevented him from being able to turn 180 degrees in 1 frame.
2) Then Blight got a nerf to DPI scaling.
3) Then Blight got a 3rd nerf, that flat out nerfed the large turning angle, which means that after 90 degrees, the turn angle gets literally capped to a slow speed for a short time.
4) Blight used to be able to slide on just about everything by looking at the ground. There's videos showing this. BHVR later nerfed the "looking at the ground" mechanic of the secondary collision system, so that it gets stuck on a lot more stuff than it used to.
5) Maps really did used to mostly be vertical smooth objects at 90 degree angles. There are videos showing this too.
All these things literally happened.
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1) Blight had his large angle turn speed nerfed 3 times.
2) Blight had his secondary collision object sliding nerfed.
3) Blight used to be able to object slide on almost every tile in the game, because tiles used to mostly be vertical smooth walls at 90 degree angles. But now with the new maps and map reworks, we have a bunch of irregularly shaped loops, anti-Blight objects thrown in regular loops, and so much line of sight breakers that we have a much larger percentage of tiles that can't guarantee a hit with Blight's M2.
4) Blight STILL, after multiple years, can't bounce off of objects that stick out below his waist, which means we STILL have a bunch of objects in the game with broken collision.
5) Blight still doesn't overperform according to the stats. For the vast majority of the players, Blight has an average killrate. We even got stats for the top 5% MMR, which showed Blight at exactly average kill rate.
It's almost like Blight's performance is fine, and streamers are making clickbait content to get clicks. Blight didn't even do do the fancy hovering in the video, and still would have gotten the hit if he had just dropped forward, to the right of the hook instead of to the left of the hook. The bigger question is why did the survivor decide to continue to loop in the giant open room, instead of turning left at the end of the stairs, into the smaller rooms that are way harder to navigate? Are we saying Blight should get nerfed because some survivors make giant mistakes they shouldn't have made?
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543848#Comment_3543848
Quite a few users have claimed that Xeno's hit box is currently bugged and is hitting objects incorrectly instead of the survivor. Maybe that's why you are having difficulties with her. Maybe give her another try after this is changed.
"Also, I like you left out the biggest plus to nemmy's power and that is breaking pallets very quickly when you are in tier two"
Yeah i did forget to mention the pallet break. Fair point. Breaking pallets with the tentacle is a nice bonus but you won't have it at the beginning. That's actually a big deal against good survivors that know how to delay you from tiering up.
Xeno's ability to use her M2 on demand and not being tied to a infection mechanic for damage makes her a lot more dangerous near pallets. She can hit her tail reliably on most pallets. Tiles/Pallets that would normally be a 50/50 are pretty much a guaranteed down for a good Xeno. You have time to use the tail as reaction to a survivor dropping or vaulting.
On these same situations Nemesis has to predict and outplay the survivors tough. I don't think they are on the same level.
'I'll also add the fact that at least with nemmy hitbox it doesn't just stop when you hit an object while with xeno tail if any part of the hitbox hits an object the attack just gets canceled"
That does happen with Nemesis. Its why crouching on most windows protects you from the tentacle. The hitbox starts above you and goes down. If it hits something on the environment (like the window that the survivor is crouching behind) it won't hurt/infect the survivor.
"Is Xeno a C tier killer? No, I even dont think that but I dont think she A tier either. I think she more a higher B now if anything. As for Nemmy I also put him in B tier tho I personally think he only slightly easier play and is better than Xeno"
I would place Xeno at the bottom of A personally but i see why you would place her in B ( Xeno in C tier is absurd though). She has the tools to keep up with coordinated Swfs. Nemesis can't keep up with that kind of efficiency and has part of his power tied to randomness. Top of C is where i would rank him.
That's not even how the whip attack works. The Nemesis whip is multiple hitboxes, stacked in a vertical line, that all move perfectly horizontal. Crouching at a window can block the whip, because the whip doesn't move downward like a whip, and instead the horizontally traveling hitboxes hit the window because they are moving horizontally.
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Are there any clips where the tail attack missed, but the killer didn't try to move the hitbox in a left (strafe), right (strafe), or turning (left or right) direction?
My current theory is the attack gets bugged if Xeno tries to move the hitbox in those directions. Possibly the tail's hitbox doesn't properly move with Xeno, even though Xeno's tail looks like it is moving.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543778#Comment_3543778
no. the turrets are there to make power worse. if survivor complains a lot about xeno, they buff turrets. if they love xeno, the turrets stay weaker. tail attack has long cooldown and big m/s decrease to keep turrets strong.
We should all remember the purpose of turrets isn't to allow Xeno to have a powerful M2 ability. The purpose of turrets is to give survivors extra counterplay, and that's it. Zero compensation is given to the killer
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543600#Comment_3543600
Can you not drag the tail left/right?
I'm pretty sure I've been dragging it left/right
It doesn't work anywhere near as well as Nemesis, and Xeno's tail feels like it just wants to fizzle if I try doing anything special with the attack. I think dragging left/right can turn a missed attack into a "collides with the environment" attack, but that doesn't help Xeno hit a survivor. If Xeno is required to move left/right at all, it just feels like the Xeno's tail is a waste of time, because the tail attack will probably just fizzle even if the animations show it going directly through the survivor.
Remember the Nemesis has a much wider M2 hitbox, drags left/right better, and doesn't want to just fizzle at the slightest inconvenience. And the Nemesis M2 can work on angles that Xeno's M2 can't work at, because currently Xeno's attack feels like it requires there to be zero environmental items in the attack's path, regardless if the survivor is in front of the environmental items. But I can slap a pallet with a Nemesis whip, even at a sharp angle, because even though their are environmental items in the M2 path, the Nemesis whip still wants to actually hit survivors or pallets.
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@Green_Sliche said:
The question that should be asked - why play Xeno at all now when there are similar killers who's power is easier to use and more reliable? His uniqueness was ability to apply pressure by hitting with tail at range, making him dangerous if he comes close enough while being undetected. Now you just put a turret nearby and listen to beep intensity - either Xeno pops up and wastes time hitting the turret or tries to get through losing his power and becoming M1 melee killer.
We now have a killer who's power can be taken away by survivors if they play smart or who can get punished severely if power was missed to the point where killer has to think whenever it's worth to use it over M1 attack. Ask killer players - how much fun that is.
I think killer counterplay items are a failed concept, because BHVR wants the counterplay items to be strong and impactful, so that survivors think they are fun and rewarding... but they also don't want the killer to be compensated with a powerful M2, because they don't want the survivors to feel like they are punished if they aren't using the counterplay item.
The same thing happened with Singularity, where overclocked mode is very underwhelming. Tiles are often so close to each other, that Singularity can break a pallet in overclocked mode, and still not be able to reach the survivor before the survivor gets to the next tile. And Singularity's teleport has such a bad delay on it, that if the survivor is holding W, the survivor can very often reach the next tile before Singularity can get into melee range.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543398#Comment_3543398
I think pulser just feels sorry for survivors and thinks they should have it easier than killers. It most likely has to do with the fact he finds killers way too easily and thinks everyone is at the same skill level as the killer as he is. I never once see him defend killer esp when it comes to new killers on this forum and honestly, every interaction I ever have with the dude he comes off as some elitest comp player who thinks ppl can get on his level play overnight. He wants to baby survivors while also punishing killers even if they are new to the game. As you said when it comes to killer stuff his line of thinking is "get better" but when it comes to a survivor it is "this thing needs to be changed so it doesnt punish new survivor players".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543418#Comment_3543418
I competely agree with you on this point also. I found learning and getting hits with nemmy whip so much easier then xeno's tail. At least with nemmy whip if it hits something it doesnt competely stop the hitbox and you can drag it a lot easier. So many times I try to get those so-called "free hits" on xeno only to miss bc I need to around a counter and by the time I do that the survivor it free from the lock and can move again.
Nemesis being able to drag the whip left/right, is far more valuable than Xeno being able to drag the tail up/down.
For starters, dragging Xeno’s tail doesn’t actually do anything useful, because it doesn’t “curve” the attack. Xeno could get the exact same hits by just aiming the tail properly in the first place, instead of purposely aiming incorrectly and dragging the tail.
The Nemesis whip being able to drag left/right is far more valuable, because Nemesis can move the hitbox left/right if the survivor tries to dodge it by move left/right. And yes, the whip prioritizing survivors over the environment is a huge benefit, that Xeno’s tail doesn’t have. I don’t need to line up the perfect angle with the Nemesis whip, because the whip wants to hit survivors. But if I don’t line up the perfect angle with Xeno’s tail, then the attack fizzles out because the tail wants to collide with the environment.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542871#Comment_3542871
Idk if I’m blind but the picture looked less red then it usually does? I think they’re changing the fog cause it looks more blue grayish in the picture.
The picture shouldn’t be red at all, unless we are given the option to change the colors of scratchmarks, pools of blood, and auras.
When people complain that it’s unnecessarily difficult to see these red things on a red map, the solution shouldn’t be “let’s maybe slightly tap the red down a bit, because we still want the map to be purposely confusing for the killer”. This map, and Toba, are still way too red.
Or maybe give players an option to toggle the red off of the map environment.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542662#Comment_3542662
Hit's like this happen all the time on both sides, you just have to deal with it.
Or we could just switch to a killer that has a reliable hitbox on their M2 power. "Just deal with it" sounds like a bad option, when we could just play a killer where we don't need to "just deal with it".
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Nothing actually changed about him.
The only difference than before, now missing hits is actually punishing him.
And there is nothing wrong with punishing bad players. If survivor outplayed you and played better than you, then you should be punished. Simple.
All killers, even the strongest 2 ( Blight and Nurse ) are getting punishment for missing power hits. Xeno is not different.
Except punishment for missing hits, he is still same killer we got. If you are getting slowdown so much, then you are missing so much hits. That's not killer's problem, it's on you.
The tail attack itself is now unreliable. Something was done to the hitbox, or with the camera lock, or with something, because I'm missing attacks that look like they would have connected before the patch.
And unreliable killer powers knocks Xeno down to B tier. I'm not putting up with turrets, if the killer power is more difficult to hit with than a Nemesis whip. I'd rather have a very reliable Nemesis whip, that sometimes needs to hit 3 times... than an unreliable Xeno tail, that's not worth using if the survivor is making any sort of left/right/turning movement at all.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542898#Comment_3542898
ultimate weapon is amazing tracking perk. how are you not finding survivors with ultimate weapon?
I'm finding survivors, that normally like to excessively hide, because they can't block it by hiding in a locker. When the perk gets its upcoming nerf, then excessively hiding survivors will just dodge it using a locker. It will be even worse if I'm against a SWF, and they are using voice comms to tell each other where I am, to make it even easier to hide in a locker if I'm patrolling in their direction.
So the upcoming anti-camping mechanic will punish killers for staying near a hooked survivor, and the upcoming ultimate weapon nerf will punish killers for leaving a hooked survivor.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543398#Comment_3543398
There's a difference between unfair and needing to practice.
Even if you have no ability to land out in the open Tail Hits; windows, pallets and other animation locks are free hits. Likewise, you are still able to progress the match. Heck, even good Xeno's use the Tail to zone and try to force a greed. Point being, you have agency, you have options even if you aren't able to get the hang of the power.
Completely different from the Overcharge example. A better example would be the beginner Survivor gameplay which is ABSURDLY Killer-sided. That's a case of needing more time to learn.
Many windows, pallets, and other animation locks aren't free hits, because many of those scenarios involves a sharp turn.
Xeno's M2 camera lock (for turning on the X-axis) is so bad that it can't handle sharp turns, and the M2 tries so hard to collide with the environment, that many of the sharp angles won't be reliable. And Xeno can't correct their M2 if the survivor micro dodges left or right. And even if Xeno does everything correct, ever since the latest patch, Xeno's M2 will sometimes just go directly through a survivor without hitting them.
This killer isn't worth playing anymore. It's so much easier hitting a survivor with a Nemesis whip, and I'd rather deal with the "Nemesis sometimes needs to hit 3 times" M2, than the "Xeno can literally lose their M2" M2.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I'm largely fine with the changes made to Xeno, but I will also say I've had a bunch of egregious missed should-have-been-hits tail attacks the past couple of days. I don't have saved video, but really bad.
It seems like the hitbox got smaller or collision with objects has gone really wonky.
I'm also getting missed tail attacks that go right through the survivor, the tail attack feels like it's trying as hard as possible to collide with the environment, and the camera lock is so bad that I can't adjust the tail attack if the survivor micro dodges to the left or right.
I'm officially giving up on this killer. I'm not putting up with turrets when this killer's attack power is worse than a Nemesis whip.
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@jesterkind said:
It's worth mentioning that Ultimate Weapon wasn't nerfed, despite that getting a comparable number of complaints to Made For This.
My interpretation is that the devs are more willing to make small changes to killers (Especially changes that are largely reverting buffs from previous updates) than they are to immediately make balance changes to perks. Makes sense to me, it's very easy for killers to snowball out of control, moreso than the average perk.
Killers do usually get small tweaks after they come out, to my recollection. That's more normal for this game than perks getting changes in the same timeframe.
It’s worth mentioning that Ultimate weapon already got a nerf, and a second nerf has already been announced.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540542#Comment_3540542
that's likely down to human error I'm afraid - sorry for the confusion.
So survivors are getting a huge buff in the form of a new anti-camping mechanic, and the killer perk that makes it easier to find a different target to chase is getting a major nerf?
If the survivors are excessively hiding, and it feels like a waste of time to patrol the map to find someone new to chase, then killers should just continue face camping, regardless of the consequences, because at least they'll know where a survivor is. Yes, I very much would like to leave a hooked survivor to find someone else to chase, but BHVR refuses to give killers any reliable ways to find someone else to chase, because they want survivors to have so much counterplay to killer tracking perks. There's been so many times in the past, where I did try to leave a hooked survivor to patrol the map, and I found zero survivors because they were all hiding, and the survivors got a free unhook while I was away. That is a much worse situation for the killer, than face camping and accepting the consequences.
I'm afraid killers aren't going to get any compensation for the anti-camping mechanic, that helps killers find someone else to chase, so it doesn't feel as necessary to camp survivors.