Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533349#Comment_3533349
I have to disagree with the notion that this is a "fake rule". What you have to remember is, if the killer is forcing survivors to hide in lockers to avoid screaming, that in of itself is pressure and keeping survivors off gens, which is what you want as killer. So while it isn't an actual rule that scream perks don't affect people in lockers, it IS a regular factor considered for balance.
With that in mind, there is no good reason to have this perk reveal survivors in lockers, because the survivors are hiding to avoid the effect, at the expense of not progressing gens; you're still gaining value here. However in it's current form the perk has no downsides, you always find the survivors, which in turn means you can still prevent survivors working on gens AND you get an easy chase too... You always know exactly where any nearby survivors are, and more importantly where they aren't, so you get to have your cake and eat it.
Now if you want a perk that helps you find those stealth survivors who doesn't help the team and just hide all game, the perk wants to have some kind of appropriate downside to faciliate that.
E.g. modify the perk to only effect survivors not performing a conspicuous action.
However you can't have it be a Swiss army knife that solves all of your problems for you. Currently this perk is just a straight up upgrade to Whispers.
I don't care if a survivor isn't working on a generator if they are in a locker. If I hook a survivor, then I want to find someone else to chase, instead of feeling like it's a complete waste of time to leave the hooked survivor. Lockers shouldn't be giving so much immunity to tracking perks, because it just encourages killers to camp. Lockers should giving immunity to EITHER aura reading OR screaming, but not both, because it's too much value for too little effort.
This perk does have a major downside already, that it alerts the survivor when the perk finds them, so the survivor can react accordingly. This perk has a second downside compared to aura reading perks, that it just gives a single point of detection, instead of multiple consecutive seconds of aura reading.
BHVR should at least let the perk stay like this a few months, to see what the pick rate is when the perk isn't new anymore. We've been constantly told we should "wait and see" for Made for This, and we should "wait and see" for this perk too.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
How can this be "Not a Bug" when every other instance where Survivors are screaming can be countered by Lockers? Let alone that this Perk is already strong enough on its own, it does not need the benefit of working against Survivors in Lockers.
New perks can do things differently from previous perks. For example, Light-Footed affects footstep noises, even though none of the previous survivor perks have ever affected footstep noises.
This perk would be useless if lockers blocked it. This perk reduces the amount of camping I do, because I finally feel like it is worth leaving a hooked survivor to patrol the map for a different target to chase. If lockers blocked it, then I'm sure survivors would just excessively hide in lockers once they figured out I had this perk, so I would have to drop the perk and just go back to camping survivors instead.
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@Venusa said:
🚨 ATTENZIONE PICKPOCKET 🚨 Doctor's power has been stolen!
Officially no reason left to play Doctor when I can just equip Ultimate Weapon on any high tier killer!
The funny part is it's actually better than his power! I can trigger it quicker with a locker + it has a lower cooldown than Doctor's power + the perk follows your radius around and keeps applying + also applies blindness + works even if survivor is hiding in a locker + cooldown is irrelevantly low!
...and no his side-power isn't worth it. Half of the killer roster has some sort of better anti-loop mechanic by now.
I can be a Nurse with Doctor's power! Why bother learning Doctor and challenge myself?! He's obsolete.
What a lovely design for a perk!
Doctor became obsolete when Made for This was released, because it turns Doctor into an M1 killer on many loops. If we really cared about Doctor, instead of just trying to use him as a "gotcha", then we would be demanding something to be changed so that Doctor isn't complete garbage against Made for This.
And Doctor has more survivor detection than just the static blast. The restraint addon means that Doctor has map-wide survivor detection on any survivors that are T2 or T3 madness.
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@Real_RUBB3R said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533269#Comment_3533269
My point of having aura reading + whispers is that if whispers is active, and you cant see the survivor's aura, that means they're in a locker
Also I'm not against new perks working differently than old perks, but the point I'm making is that it's been previously established with doctor's static blast and other screaming perks that lockers make it so you don't scream. Adding a perk that completely goes against that completely negates the point of said things not making you scream. It leaves an inconsistency.
And I say this as someone who primarily plays killer, but plays both sides pretty equally. It's extremely unfair to have so many scream based mechanics be countered by lockers and then suddenly have a perk that completely ignores that mechanic. The whole point of lockers is that they're supposed to be safe, somewhere you can hide from the killer. If you don't enjoy that as a killer then start running Iron Maiden or play killers that revolve around lockers, like Huntress/Trickster or Dredge. Or play killers that can reveal survivors in lockers with Killer Instinct, like Legion.
I'm not against killers being able to find survivors in lockers, I'm against the inconsistency that Ultimate Weapon brings to the whole screaming and lockers thing.
This isn't a case of inconsistency. There was never an established rule the lockers are required to block screaming. It's just coincidental that things in the past have coincidentally done this. You're making up a fake rule. This game evolves over time, and it's about time that killers can finally get more anti-locker perks.
We can make up a fake rule that Light-Footed is inconsistent because it is a survivor perk that lowers footstep noises, and we've never had a survivor perk that could affect footstep noises. So, according to our fake rule, we need to completely rework Light-Footed, because our fake rule states there can never be a survivor perk that affects footstep noises.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533269#Comment_3533269
I can't think of any recent changes to survivors besides worst healing and worst vaults so I'm really confused about what QoL changes survivors apparently keep getting that would justify rendering lockers useless
And although survivors hiding the entire game is definitely unfun, killing the entire stealth playstyle would be overkill to say the least. Chases have been made shorter and stealth is required at least to some extent. Also not being able to counter something is very unfun too.
UM would still be very good without the locker scream, forcing survivors to hide in a locker is really not a bad thing, and iron maiden exists.
(And whispers work against lockers btw)
It doesn't make lockers useless, and it alerts the survivor when the perk locates them, so the survivor can react accordingly.
Survivors got a survivor HUD, visual terror radius, anti camping (removed hook grabs), another anti camping change that's happening in the future, and an anti 3 gen change that's happening in the future, and a potential anti-lobby dodging (removed prestiege levels) change that might happen in the future. And BHVR super boosted the number line of sight breakers on the maps, which was done to give survivors extra chances to escape chases, and to make it easier for survivors to hide. And BHVR increased the forced camera yanks for killers, to give survivors extra chances at escaping chases.
Meanwhile, killers only have 1 quality of life buff planned for the future, it hasn't happened yet, and the one and only quality of life buff might be getting delayed over and over because BHVR is spending so much time finding new ways to buff the survivor quality of life.
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@Real_RUBB3R said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533150#Comment_3533150
If killers want to find survivors hiding in lockers, they should run something for aura reading and Whispers. Why should other things that makes you scream be countered by lockers while Ultimate Weapon just bypasses that counter?
Lockers block aura reading, so it's useless for finding survivors in lockers.
And new perks are allowed to work differently from previous perks. There's no universal law that prevents this. In fact, if we want to be consistent, then all the other screaming things should be updated so they can also work on survivors that are hiding in lockers.
Lockers shouldn't be as safe as they are. And survivors keep getting quality of life improvement after quality of life improvement. You know what would be a great quality of life improvement for killers? Let's make lockers even less safe, because survivors excessively hiding is very unfun for killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532945#Comment_3532945
Apparently it is not a Bug:
My Bug Report got flagged with "Not a bug". Which is really strange since every other instance of screaming can be countered by Lockers. It is weird to think that one of the best Tracking Perks ever released should be the exception. And IMO it would still be one of the best Tracking Perks if lockers would block the screams.
It would be a useless tracking perk if it was blocked by lockers. Most of the tracking perks are useless because they are hard countered by lockers.
If I'm expected to leave a hooked survivor to find a different target to chase, then I want a real way to find hiding survivors, that isn't going to be blocked by lockers. And many aura perks are useless because they are hard countered by distortion. And survivors can counter this perk if they really wanted, it would just take up a perk slot. I've been camping a lot less when I'm equipping this perk, because I feel like there's real value in leaving a hooked survivor.
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It's listed as not a bug, which is good. Killers need good tracking perks, and this is a good start. If BHVR expects killers to leave a hooked survivor to find someone else, then killers need good ways to find survivors that are just hiding, so that it’s actually worth leaving a hooked survivor.
Lockers have been way too safe, for way too long. I’m fact, there should be more killer perks that work on survivors in lockers.
And imagine that we have two survivor perks that are massively overused compared to all the other perks in the game, but we want to complain about a killer tracking perk? Killers are allowed to have good perks too.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532900#Comment_3532900
Huntresses hatchet hitbox is waaaaaaay larger. She can't hit 2px holes like xeno can (it's even quite difficult to hit survivor that crouches behind tall side of dropped pallet like you mentioned if you don't throw from angle - unlike xeno that can semi-reliably hit it with dragging his M2 - even if you see just 2px once you practiced it enough). She can't drag her hatchet to adjust or hit behind corners (on good ping) the way xeno can. And her hatchets have speed which is low until fully charged - compared to Xeno's hit-scan.
Also and this is very important, huntress has long wind-up time where she is slow - allowing you to dodge her hatchets (that's something people asked for btw) - and slow speed if she holds or misses her hatchet for a proper risk to use her m2 (unlike Xeno's barely slap on a wrist with his 2m/s). Speaking of which - she is 110% killer to even compensate. IDK if you would be ok with alien being 110% and having lullaby.
Maybe this is the difference though. I have yet to see survivor being able to fully hide behind pallet against xeno, but I totally do that against huntress (and huntress gives me even considerably more time to even hide in a first place)
1) Xeno can't hit 2 pixel holes. The hitbox is way bigger than that, which is why some people complain that the tail attack can easily get stuck on the environment. And you wouldn't be able to drag attack to a hole anyway, because the attack stops if it hits anything.
2) If the killer positions properly near a dropped pallet, then they get way more than 2 pixels of the survivor. Look at the above screenshot. That's the survivor trying as hard as possible to crouch at the tall side of a dropped pallet, but the killer knew they should be diagonally at the short side of a dropped pallet.
3) Hatchet windup is not relevant to this conversation. We're discussing whether or not dragging Xeno's M2 makes a noticeable difference, with how easy it is to aim the M2.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532498#Comment_3532498
Technically you are right. But I want to see you getting reliable hit when you see 2 pixels of the head from survivor over the loop. Sure, you can directly aim and hit it without dragging, but it's infinitelly easier to overshoot and drag down.
Same with survivor hiding behind pallet or crouching behind window.
Also the time difference is literally something like 50ms or maybe a little more - that's not enough for survivor to seriously move away his hitbox
This is how Huntress has worked for years, and Huntress needs to deal with projectile arcs. Anyone that has played Huntress for a while should be fine with just properly aiming Xeno's M2.
...They would also know that if you want to hit a survivor behind a pallet, that 1) it matters if the survivor is ducking next to the tall half or the short half of the dropped pallet, and 2) it matters if the killer realizes they are supposed to be on the short side of the dropped pallet, so they have a diagonal angle to the survivor, so there's way more than "2 pixels" available. Like, killers aren't supposed to be on the tall side of a dropped pallet, and try to M2 a survivor that's ducking on the tall side of the dropped pallet.
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Maps that are crammed full with line of sight breakers, can feel a lot bigger than they are. Line of sight breakers can greatly increase the time it takes to patrol generators, and the time it takes to find survivors.
Compare this to a map like Ormond, which is a main building surrounded by a ring of tiles, and everything else on the map is a dead zone . And Ormond isn’t crammed full of line of sight breakers, so it’s easy to see survivors that try to move from 1 tile to another tile. It doesn’t matter how much physical space the map has, because a lot of the space isn’t used .
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532271#Comment_3532271
Wait till you discover how to drag your power properly. You are up for a nice surprise. Xeno's M2 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better then nemesis's tentacle - pallet breaking and distance included.
Other thing to note is, that it takes about 400ms after clicking M2 to attack, but during half that time you are totally free to adjust and even during hit you can very well drag the hitbox - meaning what does it matter that hitbox is small when you can drag it around half the screen? (Actually it does matter - I can hit over so many loops that huntress can't and only DS can, but DS can't drag his hitbox so he actually needs precision)
Playing xeno and using these 2 things - my chases are usually very short
I'm still waiting for a video that shows us a Xeno M2, where dragging the power actually makes a difference. Every video I've seen so far, looks like Xeno could have gotten the same hits of they had just aimed the power correctly. And dragging the power gives the survivor more time to dodge the attack, compared to just aiming the power properly and skipping the dragging motion.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531970#Comment_3531970
what's the point of MMR then? what's the problem of wanting to play with people similar to my level? why would i go into a match with a newer players when i have over 3500 Hours? seeing prestiges from survivor perspective helps getting into a match with similar player level. there's no wrong in that. what's wrong is killers who specifically harass and target the highest prestige player in the lobby just because they are high prestige.
How do you know killers are specifically harassing someone because they are the highest prestige player in the lobby?
Have you seen how many complaints are on these forums about killers tunneling? How do you know they just aren't tunneling someone because it's an effective strategy? How do we know it's specifically harassment instead of tunneling?
Also, why would there be so many killers that want to specifically target the highest prestige player? We get constant complaints of killers lobby dodging high prestige survivors, and logically, if a killer cared about prestige levels, then they would be targeting the LOWEST prestige survivor, since they would be the "easiest target".
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532127#Comment_3532127
it gives an idea that the high prestige player have spent some time playing the game so they are at least knowledgeable of the game unlike low prestiges who are new players and i shouldn't be in a match with them to ruin their experience.
Are you saying that lobby shopping is ok for survivors, but not ok for killers?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531977#Comment_3531977
there is add-on's for that. admin wristband. it is just that zombies stats so bad that there is no real point in using add-on to improve them. I am pretty sure the zombies are meant to be a bigger part of his kit but they're just not really worth anything besides maybe a random tracking perk or a random hit that occurs.
Admin wristband is useless, because it requires line of sight, and BHVR super boosted the number of line of sight breakers in maps.
The zombies need buffs related to audio detection, so that the zombies can still find survivors even when they are surrounded by line of sight breakers.
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The biggest problem with Nemesis is the zombies still have garbage AI, and BHVR added so many line of sight breakers to maps that the zombies are really bad at finding survivors. The zombies should be reworked to be much better at hearing (i.e. not affected by sound occlusion) and responding to survivor noises, even if it's just survivor footstep noises.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531781#Comment_3531781
lol you can't be serious. even if survivors do that it would make sense because a high mmr survivor don't want to be in a match with new players. it helps the match making actually
Thanks for admitting that some survivors want to see prestige levels so they can lobby shop. This is valuable feedback for the devs.
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@nValentine said:
Hello, i wanted to give my feedback about hiding prestiges pre match.
I don't like how it is now and it makes the prestige system even less beneficial to P100 a certain character. although it's great that it's hidden pre match from killers, i think it should be visible to every survivor in the lobby and only hidden from the killer until the end match screen. I loved seeing people's prestiges as a survivor before the match starts and i made a lot of friends just by seeing a prestige 70 Leon or a Prestige 94 Rebecca. i think it would be perfect if it was only hidden from the killer because the whole problem and the bad experience people been having is because of killers who targets the high prestige in lobby.
it's better if it was shown to other teammates pre match to know if your teammates are experienced enough on the game. Reconsider this please and thank you.
If prestige levels are going to be hidden from the killer, then they should be hidden from the survivors too. I’ve seen survivors lobby dodge because of a teammates prestige level… some people want to lobby shop for teammates that are “experienced enough on the game”.
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@Mandy said:
Can confirm that this is not a bug. We are conducting some ongoing tests with some players, and we're always looking to improve the player experience within the game. We will be monitoring the feedback closely on this.
My feedback is that even though the change itself is a good idea, it’s very frustrating this is YET ANOTHER player experience buff that’s created primarily for survivors, but we still have absolutely nothing announced for player experience buffs that’s created primarily for killers, besides an FoV thing that’s still not in the game.
So we have a survivor HUD, visual terror radius, anti camping (removed hook grabs), an additional anti camping idea that will be implemented in the future, an anti 3 gen idea that will be implemented in the future, and now hidden prestige in lobbies? So we have 6 player experience buffs for survivors, and just the 1 player experience buff for killers?
Can the FoV thing please be added soon, since it’s literally the one and only announced player experience buff that’s primarily for killers?
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@mizark3 said:
Can we please remove the Killer Instinct on exiting a tunnel? It's silly enough that the Killer can get a free hit against anyone grabbing a turret at or carrying one nearby the tunnels, but you can't even hide when there is no indication the Killer is coming. At least Nurse and Blight can be stealthed out against their oppressive chase, but you can't even risk touching a gen without knowledge on the Xeno's location. The footsteps are good enough for tracking/free intel.
Turrets warn you of Xeno, even if it’s underground or undetectable. And carrying a turret still warns you, and it gives you immunity from being tracked by the visual footsteps.
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The only saving grace of Xeno’s tail attack is that it doesn’t have a super obvious telegraphed warning. It’s so clunky and awful to aim Xeno’s tail attack, that Xeno would be a complete waste of a killer if the tail attack was nerfed.
Dead hard still doesn’t give ANY telegraphed warning, so it’s fine for things to be in this game, without a super obvious telegraphed warning. And Deathslinger was given a telegraphed warning because his M2 hitbox is super reliable, super responsive, and super easy to aim. When I use Deathslinger’s M2, I know exactly where the hitbox is. But with Xeno, I’ve seen many streamers miss an M2, and then say “I feel like that should have hit”, because Xeno’s hitbox is so clunky and unreliable that there’s many times where it really feels like it should hit, but in reality it doesn’t hit.
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@memiieko said:
The animations, hitbox and timing/aiming of the tail all feel so clunky, complicated and just overall terrible experience using?
I understand that the tail is very hard to use, and I am not a master at it yet but I feel like a part of the difficulty is the overall function of the tail when using it. I don't see how the awkwardness of mismatch hitbox, models, and animation timing could even be correlated to skill, either. Is there a reason that the tail feels so awkward to fire, or is this something the BHVR team is looking into?
Xeno’s killer power is clunky and complicated, on purpose, to give survivors extra chances at dodging it. This whole game revolves around the killer player experience feeling absolutely terrible, just for the sake of survivor fun.
Trying to aim the tail attack while a survivor is near any environment object, feels absolutely terrible, as it feels like the game really wants to prioritize the tail hitting the environment, just so the game can remove all the hitboxes from the attack. And trying to hit a turret feels terrible, because sometimes the turret is invincible, and sometimes Xeno’s attacks just harmlessly phases through the turret.
And I still don’t understand how the turrets can make loud beeping noises that Xeno can’t hear unless it’s currently being attacked. How does that work? We can’t even pretend the turrets are making a special sound tone that only humans can hear, because Xeno can clearly hear the turret noises when Xeno is being attacked… so this is clearly BHVR just wanting the killer player experience to feel terrible, to make turret ambushes easier to do.
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@PoorlyPython9 said:
As per title. I've been having a lot of fun playing Xeno, bought some skins etc - but even with shadowborn, the tail is right in the centre of the screen, I find it super distracting and it ruins the experience somewhat for me. Can anyone else relate to this? Hoping the devs will move it a bit further up because I really enjoy playing the character!
BHVR needs to release a cheap Xeno weapon that is much smaller in volume. I hate that so much of this game revolves around the killer experience feeling terrible.
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@Babz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527792#Comment_3527792
'Denied of your endgame 1k' is not really a fair way to phrase it - firstly considering the fact that you're reached endgame with no kills in the first place and secondly because you cannot get a kill without tunnelling and camping one survivor out; since according to your logic the only way to get an endgame kill is through bypassing the 'basekit BT protection' to tunnel and kill one survivor. Just because you are a killer player this does not mean you deserve a kill and this mentality is exactly why the basekit BT was added in the first place; to actually give individual survivors a chance to escape killers to solely want to kill them and no one else.
Perhaps survivors still have abusable mechanics in this game which need fixing, but to act like the devs have not already tried to fix potentially unfavourable mechanics that act against killer players is rather derogatory and rude. I will list some of the buffs killers have received:
- Dead Hard nerf
- Generator time increase to 90 seconds
- Medkit nerfs
- Hit recovery time decrease
- Pallet/generator/wall destruction time decrease
- Endurance non-stacking effect, removal with conspicuous actions
- Decisive strike/Off the record removal in endgame
- 2.5% instant damage when kicking generators
Yes there are problems in this game, I agree. However, you must understand that if this game becomes anywhere near completely 'balanced', e.g. the removal of survivor strategies with perks (as you mentioned) or the concept all killers [m1 or not] having equal chances to win, this game would be so, so boring. Dead By Daylight is not built to be a balanced game, therefore this concept of being 'outsmarted by the mechanics of the game' has always applied to both killer and survivor and always probably will. Here are some examples of this in survivor:
- Getting hit through a window when the hit doesn't appear to connect
- Running into a dead zone that simply exists because of RNG
- Simply no option to make a 4-man escape against a basement Bubba due to his ability to camp with no downside
and for killer:
- Unnecessarily large maps with generators almost impossible to patrol
- Unplayable loop setups that make chasing feel arduous rather than fun
& many more on both sides. The point is, Dead By Daylight is not, and was not created as a balanced game and therefore often the game itself can feel like it is against you.
The devs are adding these mechanics (such as basekit BT etc) because they want to make Dead By Daylight into the game it is meant to be. Dead By Daylight is meant to be a thrilling game where the killer traverses the map hunting 4 survivors, not a game where a killer hunts and camps one particular survivor to get one kill. At this moment in time, I agree that the playstyle of NOT camping/tunnelling may be really punishing and you may feel forced to do so due to genrushing/too many pallets/overpowered loops etc... but until the devs remove the effortless nature of camping and tunnelling, they cannot nerf said genrushing/too many pallets/overpowered loops because that would simply make camping and tunnelling more powerful, oppressive and potentially drive most of the survivor playerbase away from the game.
It is actually a concrete fact that killer has received more buffs over the past year than survivor, so I would appreciate if you possibly understood that yes these developers ARE listening to you and are trying!! But until they add/alter mechanics to sort out the large CURRENT problems in the survivor/killer experience right now, they cannot progress to an overall better game. Although some mechanics that the devs add may currently feel punishing and abusable, they are often added with consideration to a larger plan that hopes to change the macro-level gameplay experience that perfects the fine line of Dead By Daylight being 'party game' that still offers competitive intensity/payoff.
The developers really aren't trying to balance the player experience buffs and quality of life buffs, between survivors and killers. It's crystal clear that survivors get way more attention with this. Killers just get generic number buffs, that move the kill rate, but don't actually make the killer experience feel any better.
Where are the announcements for player experience buffs and quality of life buffs, for killers? How many years do we need to wait, for BHVR to announce anything besides an FoV mechanic (and we still have zero idea how the FoV mechanic is going to work, or if it's even going to feel useful)?
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@mizark3 said:
From the Survivor side it feels like Xenos are invulnerable if they have a brain. You can reaction M2 to break turrets (from the PTB, and I'm told it is more lenient on live) and not lose power, so Survivors have to place them in odd spots to confuse the Killer as to where it is. As a result, the flame doesn't burn the Xeno long enough to kick them out of power, so it buys the Survivor 5s max. On top of that, not everyone places turrets, so you lose if one teammate forgot to set one up.
I haven't played as Xeno yet (waiting for Killer incentive), but I felt it was fair in the PTB, and they tuned everything down to easy mode (for the Killer) for the release. I don't think Xeno is overpowered, but probably overtuned. Simple number tweaks down (back to PTB values) would make it much more fair to go against. When more Xenos realize that the tail can 'cleave' to hit a Survivor AND turret in a single swing, it will make turrets all the weaker with normal placements.
Xeno's ability to destroy turrets is less lenient on live, because BHVR double nerfed the main anti-turret addon, and the other turret nerfs had nothing to do with a single turret's ability to knock Xeno out of crawler mode. Nerfing stacked turret damage is a fake nerf, because Xeno isn't going to be able to deal with stack turrets, even if the damage isn't stacking.
And Xeno's M2 is still way harder to hit with, than a Nemesis M2 or Demo M2. And Xeno's M2 wants to get stuck on the environment way too much, even though Nemesis and Demo don't need to worry about this, because their M2 powers aren't purposely clunky and awful.
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@Ghostofsnow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528100#Comment_3528100
if they're too easy to deal with then survivors have no point in doing the side objective and wasting time with them so you basically just have an antiloop killer with a smaller terror radius you hold W against.
its a hard balance but the same as those that think nemesis should injure on his fist tentacle strike. it completely ruins his slow down side effect
The turrets have a massive detection range, and is a slowdown for the killer. It doesn't need to be those two things, and an automatic power knockout if placed in an ambush spot.
The turret audio cue (that survivors can easily hear) should be easily heard by killers, so killers can be aware a turret is in the area.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528082#Comment_3528082
Should they not knock him out of Crawler Mode?
A killer shouldn't need to equip two anti-turret addons, in order to have a reasonable chance of dealing with turrets without getting knocked out of crawler mode.... but Xeno currently needs to do this.
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Turrets were overall buffed, as the main anti-turret perk got double nerfed, and none of the turret nerfs affect how quickly or easily a single turret can knock Xeno out of crawler mode.
The stacked turret nerf is a fake nerf, because Xeno will still lose crawler mode to stacked turrets, even if the damage doesn't stack.
The other turret nerfs only affect Xeno's recovery if it doesn't get knocked out of crawler mode, which is a useless buff. The only important part about turrets is whether or not they knock Xeno out of crawler mode.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527077#Comment_3527077
With all due respect, you do not know anything about this mechanic yet and cannot possibly say whether or not it holds your hand. Trying to dispel something under the guise of being hand holdy without having any info on it is silly, and frankly you could apply that same logic to anything (where it also wouldn't hold up to any scrutiny).
I find that what you're doing here is downplaying how strong and frustrating this strategy can be while simultaneously trying to turn this into an us vs. them situation. If your loyalty to one side is causing you to argue against fixing overly powerful or frustrating gameplay that the other side may face, then you've shown you don't actually care for things like fun and balance as much as your care about your own experience. You can acknowledge how people feel when they're stuck in a scenario like this and still want improvements on your end as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I think the main concern is that solutions to survivor problems tend to just be 100% nerfs on the killer side, or 100% buffs on the survivor side
1) The previewed anti-camping solution was shown as a 100% nerf for killers.
2) Hook grabs got removed, and was a 100% nerf for killers
3) The survivor HUD was a 100% buff for survivors
4) The visual terror radius was a 100% buff for survivors
5) Being worried that the 3 gen solution might be a 100% buff for survivors, or 100% nerf for killers, feels like a completely valid concern.
6) We still have zero announcements for killer quality of life improvements, or killer player experience buffs, beyond an FoV thing that is being implemented for accessibility reasons. And considering that survivors have the 5 above announced player experience buffs, it feels like fun is only important for survivors.
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@MrCrowBard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527728#Comment_3527728
It's the old wording of the perk. Probably just a merge issue with the main branch and the alien development branch of the game overwriting the perk description.
It’s not an old wording of the perk. The old version of the perk only worked up to 20 meters.
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That’s not the old description, because the old description only worked to 20 meters. This is a new description.
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One of the turret addons got double nerfed, which is a big deal because double turret addons is mandatory for Xeno.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Solo or not, survivors have to be mindful of which gens they target first. Even solos have the advantage when it comes to progression vs regression on gens.
When BHVR makes the anti 3 gen "solution", then survivors probably won't have to be mindful at all. They could just fix the 4 safest generators, purposely cause a 3 gen, then stall the game until the anti 3 gen "solution" gets activated.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526759#Comment_3526759
I'm not sure where this comes from, but:
- We have confirmed that we are working on a solution to help with excessively long 3 gens.
- It's not always the Survivor's mistake. A Killer can also choose to defend a 3 gen from the start of the match, leaving them no choice.
I’m still hoping this solution also addresses survivors that are excessively pre-leaving generators and excessively hiding, because as killer, I’ve been in many games where the last 3 generators weren’t close together, but the games took an extremely long time because I would patrol the generators over and over and over, and never find any survivors because they were always hiding far away by the time I got there.
Because if the 3 gen solution is 100% a nerf for killers, then survivors will absolutely stall out the game until the 3 gen solution gets activated.
Is there any preview for the 3 gen solution, that can be shared with us?
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526294#Comment_3526294
This gives off the same energy as the people who say discord is cheating in dbd. When people say four man swf, guess what they are referring to?
As I said in my post OW is technically balanced around VC, but in my gm1 games it's rare for people to participate. An even harsher example is top 10 players both saying nothing and receiving nothing via voice chat. People who want to hard use VC will still just swf in the pre game and people who don't care that much won't.
If people want the game to be balanced around voice comms, they should just say so. We are allowed to admit voice comms are in the game, and that some people use them to gain extra game advantages.
Wanting to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF is a separate topic, and would include things like matching all the frequent ragequitters with each other, so they aren’t ruining games for the solo q players that actually want to play each game. It feels like the survivor bots made the ragequitting situation worse. It feels like more games have early ragequitters, but since they get replaced by a bot, the remaining survivors are more likely to continue the game, even though they are still likely to lose because of the ragequit. The result is still a whole bunch of games that feel like a waste of time, but now we’re spending more time on these games instead of the survivors giving up so we all can move onto the next game.
Most of my complaints about solo q are the frequent ragequitters and “lone wolf” survivors, that don’t want to be team players, and will actively do things that mess up the team’s survival rate.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526532#Comment_3526532
is that not what you want as killer? your post seems to imply that you want killers to be at a stronger level. if you don't want that, than you should not care about losing to a swf. you should be fine taking losses because your average match is not that difficult as killer.
I want people to actually be transparent with what they want.
1) BHVR said they don't want to balance the game around voice comms
2) Whenever BHVR talks about bridging the gap between solo q and SWF, they're literally talking about advantages that are from voice comms.
3) If people want the game to be balanced around voice comms, they should be transparent and literally say they want the game to be balanced around voice comms. Voice comms aren't a basekit part of SWFs, so people shouldn't use the word "SWF" when they really mean "voice comms".
4) No. I don't think the game should be balanced around voice comms. I think we should get to the "killers can get player experience buffs too" part, as compensation for the survivor HUD , visual terror radius, increased line of sight breakers, and increased forced killer camera yanks.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526499#Comment_3526499
many SWFs don't use voice comms... so they had the exact same game information as solo q, even though they are in a SWF.
i would not consider that a swf. I would just consider that soloq with friends.
aura reading is pixel perfect information of where the survivor is, which is way more accurate than what most people are communicating via voice comms. And auras give constantly updated information.
you do not need pixel perfect information in dbd. you only need approximate information to do like 95% dbd plays. another method that some games use for approximate information is pings. I don't think ping works too well in dbd. dbd gameplay just does not fit with pings. there would be too many pings. spamming ping would be too annoying. disrupts the peaceful nature of the game.
solo q with friends? Really? IF the defining feature of SWFs is voice comms, then people should just be crystal clear, and just say they want the game to be balanced around voice comms.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526472#Comment_3526472
hud is small step in closing gap. the problem is survivor do not really need UI. what they need is teammates aura. you do not need UI telling you the generator progression. you can just see a survivors aura in the distance that the survivor went on generator. from that, you can deduce that if he is on the gen for 20 seconds. the gen has 22% progress. you do not need UI to tell you that survivor is in a chase. you can read body language of a survivor running away from a generator. that survivor must be in chase because he is running in circles. you do not need UI about healing progression or gate progression. you can do same internal clock as generator's.
dbd's survivor problem is just teammate aura reading. It is similar problem to cook's level 3 seek ability. I am not sure why they have that seek ability as upgrade because that upgrade is clearly an upgrade that every cook is going to use in soloq. the SWF will also use that level 3 ability until everyone learn the basement map but after x months where the player knows the maps inside out. SWF will not need to use that level 3 skill because they can just do call-out based off basement location like "victim on side-garden ladder". soloq on the other hand will always have to rely on that level 3 cook skill because you do not know if your teammate understand the map to use your call outs effectively. you have to use level 3 perk in hopes that they use wall-hack properly.
The survivor HUD doesn't close the gap between solo q and basekit SWF. It's literally closing the gap between people without voice comms and people with voice comms. Remember that basekit SWFs have the exact same game information as solo q, and many SWFs don't use voice comms... so they had the exact same game information as solo q, even though they are in a SWF.
And aura reading is pixel perfect information of where the survivor is, which is way more accurate than what most people are communicating via voice comms. And auras give constantly updated information. Auras and voice comms are not replacements for each other, as they have completely separate advantages and disadvantages.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526294#Comment_3526294
i think dbd problem is derive on aura's. if survivor can see aura of teammates, they can do most teamwork actions effectively. in TCM, there is a character in the called Cook. One of his skills is that he can grant-wall hacks when he detects a victim to himself. at base-kit, this is not very useful with no voice com's. With level 3, he grants wall-hacks to everyone on his team when he uses Seek ability. You can see how dramatically more powerful his ability becomes once aura is shown to everyone on the team.
His level 3 ability grants voice com's without needing to talk. The game shows the aura and the aura does all the talking. survivor has same problem in dbd. with bond/empathy/kindred, the teammates auras perks do all the talking required. there is no reason to add voice com's. your better off just putting those aura type perks into base-kit so nobody needs to talk. the game does all the talking for you.
I think you missed the point on everything else I mentioned about TCM and voice comms.
"Even if we use TCM as an example, have you seen the difference between killers that don't use voice chat, and killers that coordinate Bubba removing specific infinites, killers that coordinate being in specific places to flank survivors that are trying to loop, killers that coordinate being at the well drop-down place in the basement so they can be there when a survivor drops down a well, etc etc etc? And that is what the game is balanced around... players that are using voice chat to coordinate strategies that are impossible to do without voice chat."
All the above stuff is important, and currently needs voice comms to do.
The real problem is BHVR said they don't intend to balance the game around voice comms.... but when they say "lessen the gap between solo q and SWF", they literally mean voice comms. The survivor HUD had 0% to do with basekit SWF, as basekit SWF has 0 extra communication features beyond what solo q gets. And whenever survivors talk about closing the gap, they are also literally talking about features that survivors only get when they use voice comms.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526124#Comment_3526124
So basically everyone just has to accept the huge advantage SWF has in this game and deal with it?
That's what we've been doing ever since the survivor HUD was released. There's zero reason to believe that BHVR has any intention of actually compensating killers for all the quality of life buffs the survivors have been given. It's literally been years, and we've heard absolute zero on compensation buffs, besides the FoV idea that is happening for accessibility reasons.
We even have the healing nerf to prove that BHVR's goal isn't to actually balance survivors as a whole. BHVR nerfed self healing, but kept altruistic healing exactly the same, which WIDENS the gap between solo q and SWF. It's like BHVR's goal isn't actually to close the gap, and instead they're just using that as an excuse to buff survivors whenever they want.
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526028#Comment_3526028
Now hear me out... mute button.
Very innovative! Or as I said previously a option in settings to automatically not join vc.
This entire thread only proves dbd players don't play other pvp games.
PvP games that have basekit voice chat, are balanced around voice chat, which means that if some people don't participate in voice chat, the whole team might be at a massive disadvantage.
Even if we use TCM as an example, have you seen the difference between killers that don't use voice chat, and killers that coordinate Bubba removing specific infinites, killers that coordinate being in specific places to flank survivors that are trying to loop, killers that coordinate being at the well drop-down place in the basement so they can be there when a survivor drops down a well, etc etc etc? And that is what the game is balanced around... players that are using voice chat to coordinate strategies that are impossible to do without voice chat.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525454#Comment_3525454
It's not a nerf, it's a change. That's why I commented on incentives for hooks, more regression by default on the kicks to make up for the restricted amount of times they can kick gens between hooks, etc. If you want to see it as a nerf, I think you're looking at it through the wrong glass. It's all about smoother gameplay.
Think of my suggestion as a change, and it's not a nerf. Think of it as smoother gameplay. It's encouraging survivors to interact with the killer, to make up for the restricted amount of times they can leave a generator between chases. If you see it as a nerf, then I think you're looking at it through the wrong glass.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525115#Comment_3525115
I believe this would push more people to run “””””bully””””” builds since they’ll have to interact with the killer and will do it that way, and as much as I don’t mind them when I play killer, a lot of people will be whining. Still a bad idea imo.
Telling people that the 3 generator problem is 100% the fault of killers, and 100% of the solution should be a killer nerf, is really super wrong.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524968#Comment_3524968
Chases can't start if the killer decides to go AFK and not even move and if those survivors had no more stacks or however you want to call it to touch gens again from your idea, the game would be held hostage because the game would not be able to progress because of the impediment from survivors to touch the gens. Such a bad idea in my opinion, I am sorry.
Then make it reset on chases, or being within 4 meters of the killer. The specifics can be changed, as long as the general concept of “survivors also get punished for refusing to interact with their opponents” is intact.
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@adaw0ng said:
So since the great perk overhaul from last year the gen kicking strategy has become the most common one to see even after the nerfs to Overcharge and COB and most of the games turn into a hit and run and kicking gens simulator and make the match the longer it can take until the server shuts down or the survivors just decide to give up (most common in solo Q since it's a strategy that can make people feel exhausted without any sort of communication and coordination + RNGs of the maps for gen spawns). I know there was said that there is an update coming regarding this strategy but I wanted to give my idea just in case it could help out in some way.
How about adding the mechanic of killers being able to kick gens up to 3 times by default, and it would refresh or stack on top once they get a hook? Make the regression from kicks bigger (even adding extra for fresh/first hooks to incentivise not tunneling out and/or camping, so it would be like a little POP base kit), but can't exceed a certain amount of kicks. It would be like vaults blocking for survivors after vaulting it 3 times, the gens would block for the killer only. It would have to be tested how to find the sweet spot in the numbers, but I think this could really solve the biggest complain right now of having +30 minutes matches were killers just play with themselves in a pre-set 3 gen since the beginning of the match + it would add the incentive to not tunnel as much, without the killer getting punished if he decides to do so, but they would lose the base kit incentive to go for fresh hooks (the extra regression from the first kick after the gen).
Numbers from the gen kicking perks could also be looked at, and Deja Vu's since the last buff it got was more like a band-aid fix to the infinite 3 genning games.
Thoughts?
How about adding the mechanic where survivors can leave gens up to 3 times by default, and it refreshes if they get into a chase with a killer? That would stop survivors from excessively pre leaving generators, and excessively hiding, which is a major part of the 3 gen problem.
If the killer is going to be forced into interacting with survivors, then survivors should be forced into interacting with the killer.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523336#Comment_3523336
I agree with you. I feel some survivors don't realize that 3 genning can be their fault also. Every 3 gen game I have had on any killer is at the fault of the survivors. I never start the match out with finding a 3 gen to defend and stay there all game along even with knight and SM. That said if I see that the last three gens are close to each I will camp those since by then thats on the survivors, not me.
That said it is an issue on both sides and I'm wondering what fix the devs have in mind for 3 genning since they said they are looking into a fix for it.
I hope the issue is fixed on both sides. It’s frustrating as killer, when there are 3 generators left, and I’m just patrolling the generators over and over and over, because the survivors are excessively pre leaving the generators immediately after their visual terror radius shows a warning icon, so I’m never finding anyone. And the survivors are leaving the generators so early and for so long, that the generators aren’t progressing either.
If killers are going to be pushed into committing to a chase with a survivor, then the survivors need to be pushed into committing to a chase with the killer.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523890#Comment_3523890
it got balanced for like two months after healing nerf, but here we are again...
Not for me. I’ve literally had long survivor queue times, non stop, starting with the survivor HUD. And when a new killer is released, I still have really long survivor queue times (before the survivor HUD, I used to have really quick survivor queues when a new killer is released).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522738#Comment_3522738
how do you know that? i think it is mostly a lot of killer player leaving temporally to play TCM. if a lot of high mmr killer player leave, survivor queue times become longer because matchmaker has to search for killers that are worse for survivor to get games. if TCM becomes competitor to dbd, then dbd has to be somewhat careful. dbd never had to be careful in bleeding out players because DBD was only game to offer dbd type gameplay.
My survivor queues have been way longer than my killer queues, ever since the survivor HUD was released, regardless of what day or time it is.
Before the survivor HUD, I used to have quick survivor queues during the day…. but that was a long time ago. BHVR has clearly made the survivor experience feel way better than the killer experience, at least for whatever MMR range I’m in.
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I'm tired of people using one killer as a reason to give all killers a giant nerf, and I'm tired of people pretending this problem is 100% the fault of killers, when survivors are sometimes also at fault for excessively pre-leaving the generators.
The problem needs to be fixed on both sides. This shouldn't be a 100% nerf for killers.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522986#Comment_3522986
They nerfed survivor hard in 2022 but ok sure, what if HUD and hook grab removal is an answer to extra high killrates ? MFT is strange because they never release good survivor perks, I think it was a direct answer to high killrates too. Btw next alien chapter is 100% for killers, the survivor is really bland with forgettable perks
killer is already in a good spot it's just not that fun to play, how do you fix that ? They can't buff killers much more without ruining the game for other side
After BHVR gave killers the generic number buffs (and none of them improved quality of life at all), BHVR announced that kill rates were where they wanted them. So all the buffs and quality of life boosts for survivor weren't in response.
Also, I would gladly change all those uninspired generic number buffs, for actual quality of life improvements. It's just so sad that anyone in this game, at all, thinks the killer player experience was improved by things like slightly faster pallet breaking. It's so clear that BHVR thinks the survivor player experience is very important to them.... but for killers the only important thing is the kill rate, as if the kill rate is BHVR's special gift to killers.
Imagine if the reverse happened... Imagine if killers got a bunch of quality of life improvements, and if survivors complained, then BHVR rushes in to let them know they shouldn't worry, because the survival rate will get fixed if it moves too far.
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Does everyone remember when BHVR went to these forums, and was super excited to let us know the super exciting news, of an exciting new feature for survivors, that survivors should be excited about? And there was much joy, and survivors felt like BHVR appreciated them? Survivors got a HUD, a visual terror radius, hook grab removal, an anti-camp project for the future, and an anti-3-gen project for the future, and all of those things are 100% for the benefit of survivors. Even the survivor DC bots are primarily for survivors, because it raises the survival rate.
Does everyone notice that BHVR doesn't ever do this with killers ever? Where is the exciting BHVR announcement for killers, where BHVR rushes to these forums to let us know about an exciting new feature for killers, that should make killers thrilled and excited? We only have an announcement for something related to FoV, with zero previews or teasers, and no one from BHVR rushed in to tell us how excited they were that killers were getting this new feature. Where are the other projects for the benefit for killers? What other new features can killers look forward to?