Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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Also, licensed chapters are usually disappointing because licensed characters usually get extremely few cosmetic options, and all of their cosmetic options tend to be expensive, and a lot of them are stuck as linked sets.
Considering how popular Wesker is, I’m still surprised the number of cosmetics he has is pure garbage. Does it cost way more $$$ to create licensed cosmetics?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500850#Comment_3500850
yes but it is saying completing heal. that just means when you go from dying state to injured, the effect triggers. i think this assuming that it does not matter how you get there. the activation requirement to get there is healing when someone is in dying state. the combo is intended to work with how buckle up reads. the wiki is talking about the interaction with second-wind/renewal perk that Steve has. it used to be long time ago that if you used For the people with second wind/renewal, you would not activate second wind because the game for second wind only counts charges healed. it works now but it is slightly buggy.
all the combo reminds me is why i do not enjoy playing killer that lose to bodyblocking......
No. Completing a heal involves the healing action, and the wiki states "This switch is not considered a Healing Action by other game mechanics or other Perks". If the wiki is incorrect, then someone from BHVR should tell us, so the wiki can be fixed.
If the perk had meant "just go from dying to injured by any means possible", than the word "heal" shouldn't have been used.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500610#Comment_3500610
your not reading buckle up perk properly. it does not matter that FTP is not health switch. what matter is what buckle up reads:
unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability.
While healing another Survivor in the dying, Buckle Up activates:
The auras of the Killer is revealed to both you and the healed Survivor.
Completing the heal grants both of you the Endurance Status Effect for 6/8/10 seconds.
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there is nothing in description that says complete a healing action. it is on/off perk where when it is on, you are granted 2 effects. healing shows both survivors the killer aura and both of you are granted endurance effect for same 10 seconds. the combination is entirely intended for how perk reads.
The wiki description literally says "Whenever you finish healing another Survivor from the Dying State to the Injured State". The word "HEALING" is clearly there. You even literally quoted "Completing the heal" as the trigger for the endurance status effect
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@Mandy said:
The reason that FTP doesn't work with MFT is because you have to be healthy to use FTP and you have to be already injured for the benefits of MFT - as the perk is only active when you're injured. So you use FTP and become injured, hence the effects don't work...which is why we highlighted it on the patch notes because it was something that we listed as a bug in the reports on the PTB but didn't want to cause confusion for players.
That screenshot is from the DBD wiki, and it says For The People isn't supposed to be considered a Healing Action. Is the wiki correct? Because I was under the impression the perk is supposed to be a health state SWITCH, and not actually a healing action.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500442#Comment_3500442
Surely, surely, the name itself is something to be excited about?
Weak killers are nothing to be excited about. I really did want the singularity to be good, but BHVR decided that SWFs should be able to use their voice comms to altruistically chain EMPs back to back, so the killer feels absolutely terrible to play. I wanted to be excited for the Sadako rework, until it turns out that holding a tape and excessively hiding, turns her into a mediocre killer with a bad chase power. Skull merchant just encourages survivors to excessively pre-leave generators, so it makes the games super long, but doesn't really help the killer actually win.
The visual terror radius just makes it 100% easy for survivors to excessively pre-leave generators, even against a "stealth killer" like Sadako. Do we really think the Alien killer will actually be able to catch survivors by surprise with stealth, when it's super clear that Sadako is forbidden from surprising survivors? Spirit used to be able to surprise survivors, and now she has super loud directional audio. Dredge has a loudest stomping feet noises, and has unnecessarily loud locker noises. Stealth killers are just all disappointing now, because BHVR wants to make sure that survivors don't actually get surprised by them.
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I’m guessing some face hugger power that will take a lot of effort to land on a survivor, but then the survivors will have alien-EMPs to cleanse an area of face huggers.
Also be prepared that if it’s a stealth killer, it might have a huge lullaby radius, or loud stomping feet noises, directional audio noises, or something else to make sure the survivors will run away before the killer gets there.
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There’s zero reason to be excited about the killer yet. We don’t know if it will have some mechanic like EMPs, that will make the killer feel useless.
We’re in a new era where killers have a giant wall of text for their complicated killer power, but then survivors get some easy mechanic like EMPs to completely counter the killer power.
This will probably just be another weak killer, people will probably say “every killer doesn’t need to be top tier”, and I’ll still be stuck playing the same few killers over and over.
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@Raptorrotas said:
"We arent swf, we are just 4 random dudes lobby dodging till all four of us, who just randomly happen to be all on each of all our friendlists, are in the same lobby to get that additional buff. Please ignore that we're on discord too."
Did happen before, will happen again if they make boni for solo or penalties for swf.
Solo and swf are the same character ingame. The devs chose not to start splitting the survivor character into solo and swf, because for all those "differences" between the two, the devs literally have no way to fix the players' ######### attitude towards stranger teammates or tweaking third party voicecomms.
1) BHVR can just add code to prevent survivors from randomly matching with other survivors they’ve recently matched with, or people on their friend list
2) BHVR can add a random delay, so that players that hit the ready button at exactly the same time, won’t have a higher chance of being matched with each other.
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@BreadLord said:
description says it will alert us when the killer is in 36 meters. and will give boost when direct line of sight, but this perk is not lighting up at all. is this perk just dead now
That description is incorrect. The perk was supposed to have been reverted back to the original meta shakeup version, which requires line of sight.
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@Kenpo_Kid69 said:
@Coffeecrashing Spine Chill helps stop the 3 gen problem, it doesn't encourage them. Same with Alert, Premonition, etc. Allows you to stay one step ahead of the killer when they work in solo queue. Spine Chill has never been the end all be all, its never been an issue in this game. You don't hear comp players complain about it, nor do you see it topping survivor lists or being called a meta perk. Once the vaulting bonus was removed those days were over. Also you say its so problematic and yet we have a visual terror radius now in the options that literally does what you claim was hurting the game.
Temporary buff was the visual terror radius, not the whispers. And it wasn't being removed for being too powerful, they just felt it was redundant for the player to have it twice.
When survivors excessively pre-leave generators, that can create a 3-gen problem. I've had many games where the last 3 generators were far apart, but the survivors kept pre-leaving generators, so I wouldn't find anyone when I got there. And the survivors left so early, and stayed away for so long, that the generators weren't really getting done.
Survivors excessively pre-leaving generators is a major game issue. And we don't hear about it much because people just want to blame everything on killers. And yes, the visual terror radius is also partially causing the increase in 3-gen games. Even though the visual terror radius (in theory) gives the same amount of information as the audio terror radius, the fact is that it's way easier to notice the giant red icon, and start hiding when you see the icon, and stop hiding when the giant red icon goes away. And yes, some people are doing that, and it's causing 3-gen problems.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
And some people wonder why I refuse to take the idea of Comp DBD seriously when rules like this are in place
Yeah. This should be a giant red flag that we shouldn't take comp DBD seriously. Competitive Wraith just sounds like a bad idea, and the amount of arbitrary rules that would be needed to make it feel balanced, would be comically astronomical.
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@MeyersEnthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497760#Comment_3497760
"Well it doesn't say what I want it to say so it must be wrong 🤷🏻♀️"
That's what you're doing. The devs said it was only getting a temporary buff for accessibility purposes, and then it's supposed to go back to the original meta shakeup version.
You, on the other hand, want to sneak in a buff to the perk, even though that wasn't supposed to happen. The temporary buff wasn't intended to hide a secret buff along the way.
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@Kenpo_Kid69 said:
What's the counter to Whispers? What's the counter to visual terror radius that any survivor can use? Plenty of things in the game that have no counters or no practical counters anyway.
Why rework a perk so that its literally useless for survivors? That also does not make sense and the patch notes and current perk description clearly show that the changes made were not intended. Keep in mind Coffee, even with the whispers, even with the visual terror radius as well, most streamers like Otz or Hens will tell you that Spine Chill is still not a great perk. Its a nice security blanket for survivors but without the vault bonus most of your really good players are not going to run it. Its hardly meta, in fact its not even banned in comp play to my knowledge and yet no one runs it. Hardly a canidate to nerf it into the ground as this patch has done. By mistake IMO, because two of the abilities are being confused as being the same, when they are completely different from one another.
Spine Chill was supposed to have gotten a huge nerf as part of the meta perk shakeup. And the devs made it clear that the perk was only getting a temporary buff for accessibility reasons, and afterwards it was supposed to go back to the original meta shakeup version.
And it's not a "nice security blanket". It's literally encouraging the most problematic survivor behavior in the entire game. Survivors are excessively pre-leaving generators, and demanding BHVR to fix 3-gens, even though the excessive pre-leaving generators is a huge part of the 3-gen problem.
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@Kenpo_Kid69 said:
@Coffeecrashing That's referring to the speed bonuses activating. Spine Chill still warns you (or did anyway) if a killer is within 36 meters of your position. Also that's very old patch notes. Here are the current patch notes on Spine Chill. Patch notes 7.1.0 Nicolas Cage......
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/400-7-1-0-nicolas-cage
- Spine Chill:
- Get notified when the Killer within a 36-meter range. If the Killer is within range and is looking at you with a clear line of sight, your speed while repairing, sabotaging, healing, unhooking, cleansing, blessing, opening exit gates and unlocking is increased by 2%/4%/6%. The effects of Spine Chill linger for 0.5 seconds after the Killer looks away or is out of range.
Those old patch notes should be the intended version. Spine Chill only got a temporary buff for accessibility reasons. BHVR shouldn't be buffing the perk beyond what it was supposed to be before the temporary buff.
Besides, those new patch notes just could be badly worded. It doesn't make sense for the current spine chill to have even less counterplay than spine chill did before the meta shakeup. Killers used to be able to walk sideways to counter it.... and you want there to just be no counter at all? Perks that encourage survivors to pre-leave generators should all be removed from the game, because survivors pre-leaving generators is one of the biggest problems this game currently has.
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@MeyersEnthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497452#Comment_3497452
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ASFJRD6LSW5J/16906626783277711921219601824484.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KIC7A459BWU4/20230729-163240.jpg
No it doesn't like actually just read it.
The perk description is incorrect then. The meta perk shakeup changed the perk to only work in line of sight, and it got the "visual terror radius" portion added due to accessibility concerns. The perk should have gone back to the original meta perk shakeup version.
And you can read that version at https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/337-developer-update-june-2022
"Spine Chill will now only activate if the Killer has a clear line of sight to the Survivor. This will remove the awkward counterplay where the Killer must look away to ensure a stealthy approach."
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@MeyersEnthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496080#Comment_3496080
If you read the perk description and the patch notes, it pretty clearly says it "alerts you when the killer is within 36 meters of your location." It's supposed to do that, and that ability of the perk never changed, it's just broken right now
You're reading the wrong description.... the current description is
"If the Killer is within 36 metres of your location and looking at you with a clear line of sight, Spine Chill activates"
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It's one of the most skill-less maps for survivor. There are so many line of sight blockers everywhere, that only exist to make it easier for survivors to hide, to escape chases, and to make it easier to avoid some of the killer powers. The map is purposely red to hide scratchmarks and pools of blood. Sound occlusion is working overtime on that map even though it's an outdoor map.
And some of the loops are so large and awkwardly shaped that if the killer runs it incorrectly, then the survivor can get lots of distance..... and the killer might run it incorrectly because the sound occlusion might make the survivors silent, and the inconsistent scratchmarks might not actually show an unbroken path.
Killers are fighting bad game mechanics, more than they are fighting the survivors.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495742#Comment_3495742
The way it's worded right now is consistent with how several things in DBD work, which is that they are based on charges and charges per second (or c/s for short).
To use a different example, if a survivor has a 10% repair speed buff, their repair speed is 1 + 0.1 = 1.1c/s. This means that they can finish a generator in 90 / 1.1 = 81.8 seconds (not 90 * 0.9 = 81). A survivor under the effect of Pentimento for example has their repair speed reduced by 30%, reducing the repair speed to 1 * (1 - 0.3) = 0.7c/s, taking 128.57 seconds to complete a generator. Spirit's power recovery addons (and several others) are the same way. It's very much intentional and working correctly.
Also unrelated, but they did buff the brown and yellow duration addons slightly after the PTB with no mention (they are now 15% and 25% respectively), to make up for the nerfs a bit more.
Having things based off of c/s units, that are only visible in outside sources like the wiki, is misleading. Most people aren't even aware of what Spirit's c/s is.
The descriptions should work like how Nurse's expanded recharge addons descriptions used to work. "Considerably reduces (-0.6 seconds) Spencer's Last Breath Token Recharge time." It might not be perfect, and the wiki could still have the complicated math, but it would be way better than misleading people into thinking Spirit's recharge addons are anywhere near as good as they are.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I can share the math.
Spirit's power has 5 charges and consumes 1 charge for every second phasing, leading to the 5 sec duration.
Her recovery speed is 0.333c/s, making her total recovery 15 seconds. With the add-ons, her recovery should be 0.333x(1+0.4+0.3) or 0.333x1.6, leaving us with a recovery rate of 0.5328c/s.
5/0.5328 leaves us with a total recovery of 9.38 seconds (rounded down).
If this is what BHVR intended, then can they please reword the descriptions so that simple math works? If an addon says 40%, I'm expecting to get the charges back in 40% of the time.
And these are supposed to be buffed recovery times, as compensation for some of Spirit's addons getting massively nerfed. Can these addons please actually get the charges back in 20%/30%/40% of the time?
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495061#Comment_3495061
What gets me, is that people still found it useful to use and it wasn't overpowered, yet the developers still decided to nerf it because the visual terror radius does the same thing.
Well, what's the problem with that. So what, the visual terror radius does the same thing as Spine Chill, yet players still valued Spine Chill because the visual terror radius on it.
Spine chill did way more than the visual terror radius, as it pinpointed how far away a killer was, down to the smallest centimeter. The audio terror radius and the visual terror radius, are nowhere near as accurate, as there are only 3 separate warning levels for a terror radius.
The temporary Spine chill was a terrible recreation of the audio terror radius, and it should have only been sectioned into 3 parts.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494590#Comment_3494590
I agree Wesker IS fun (not counting Video Conference Device addon and hard tunnel, but it's not super bad, because it's not super common). It's just if you get too much of the same thing, it's.... less enjoyable. Considering just him, I might need a break.
For the other 2. No. I am totally fed up with them after 1-2 games and I am pretty sure no amount of break will really change that.
This is what happens when people keep demanding for killer nerfs, and BHVR releases a bunch of underpowered killers that feel like garbage to play.
Yes, Wesker is used a lot. It really would be super great if BHVR would give killers a good selection of killers.... but they don't! Most killers feel like absolute trash to play against a coordinated SWF, so here we are with a bunch of people playing Wesker.
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For the people should count as a health swap, and not as a health heal.
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@Yoshirama said:
Imagine complaining about a niche combo
If it's such a "niche combo", then it should be fine if it's fixed. Imagine defending a niche combo, as if it was important enough to defend.
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493569#Comment_3493569
Ok and whilst all those survs just camp a downed surv who does gens? For that scenario u painted at least 3 survs are not doing the main objective. Thats a good thing.
If it needs that many survs out of gens to work I say it’s completely fine. ur just saying its broken because its brand new strat. But realistically it is just like a Flashlight save but riskier and with less ease of use
All those scenarios aren't happening at once. And besides, unless the scenario is "literally zero survivors are repairing generators", then the survivors are progressing the game.
I never ever ever ever care about the number of survivors that are NOT repairing generators. It's such a bad take, to look at the game that way. People should always care about the number of survivors that ARE repairing generators, and if that number isn't literally zero, and there is at least 1 survivor repairing generators uninterrupted, and that 1 survivor doesn't need to do anything else besides repairing.... then it's a bad situation for the killer.
A lot of bully SWFs will have a survivor repairing, so the game is this slow mess, where most survivors are bullying the killer, but the survivors are still repairing, so the killer still might lose even though the survivors aren't throwing as many people as possible on generators.
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493371#Comment_3493371
You know I tried it in several SWF matches since you last showed me this combo. I must say, it is very niche and you need to be reaaaally close to the killer for it to work properly, kinda like flashbang saves. It is strong that much I agree but not as strong as you are making it out to be.
It also doesn't need to be instant. Survivors are doing things like holding flashlights or toolboxes, to threaten flashlight saves or hook sabos, and if the killer moves, then there goes the broken survivor perk combo. If the survivor gets dropped under a pallet, and the killer moves to check for other survivors that want to pallet save, then there goes the broken survivor perk combo.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493371#Comment_3493371
So what? That means the killer buffs don't exist? If killers got the overall better end of the stick, would that mean the buckle up buff didn't happen?
This isn't a "survivors did slightly better". This is "survivors are light years ahead of killers this patch". Buckle up + For the people is super miserable to play against.
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@not_requested49 said:
I just noticed this and I'm kinda confused why they did this... doesn't it make the secondary effects of WGLF and Made for this redundant? Not to mention the description still says that it Unlocks potential of aura reading..... yet that effect is removed entirely
I'm not sure why BHVR did this. Bully SWFs are so happy right now, because this is super miserable for killers.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384720/survivor-sided-patch-notes
ah ofc cant have an update without ppl complaining its x sided, even tho there was also killer buffs already mentioned they obviously straight up dont exist since the update favors survs overall. "there is not a single good killer update today" and dismiss the ones brought to your attention, nice! sleeper post 😴
All the killer buffs combined is way way way less powerful as new buckle up + for the people. It's such a broken combo, and for the people is supposed to swap health states, so it shouldn't even count as a healing action.
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By perk buffs, do you mean Buckle up + For the people? Because that is far far far more powerful than any perk buffs that killer got. Survivors are using this combo when the killer is in attack animation cooldown, when the killer is right there, and both survivors get the endurance status from it.
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@CyberianFaux said:
A large portion of the community dislikes this strat and the ability to do this leads to server timeout games becoming common by killers like Skull Merchant and Knight. This even becomes their ideal win condition unless the survivors choose to give up. This strat also limits the creativity of the dev team to make specific killer designs as it favors one side too heavily when this strat is employed. Simply put, something needs to change. Onto my idea to potentially fix it.
Idea:
- When 4 generators are complete, if all of the 3 remaining generators are within 32 meters of another generator, this mechanic activates.
- When activated the anti-3 gen mechanic turns off one of the generators more than 32 meters away from all the 3 original remaining gens. Then a randomly chosen generator in the 3 original gens is turned on and entity blocked. This leaves still one generator to be completed to power the exit gates.
Explanation:
- This automatically prevents 3 gen situations from ever occurring
- This makes it so killers wanting to guard a limited number of generators still can so long as they prevent a 4th generator from being done (4 gen situations instead of 3 gen which is more hard to defend for free with killer powers)
- The purpose is to automatically split the generators to have at least one generator more than a killer's terror radius away for survivors to try to complete.
If you move the generators farther apart, then survivors will get rewarded for pre-leaving generators at the slightest hint of a terror radius (or the lullaby warning). Survivors excessively pre-leaving generators is a major game issue, and is half the 3-gen problem.
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@EQWashu said:
Stepping in with a reminder to keep comments civil, please. It's ok if you don't agree with others, but please, let's not accuse people of "trolling" or be unnecessarily/overly negative toward others for their opinions or things they like about the game that do not break the rules.
To note as well, matches lasting very long stretches of time where a side is not progressing the game can be considered Griefing (holding the game hostage), and reportable, as noted in the Game Rules.
I've had "3-gen" situations where the generator were actually far apart, but the survivors kept leaving the generators at the first hint of a terror radius. And they would be long gone from the generators when I got there. Some 3-gen situations are also the fault of the survivors.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489298#Comment_3489298
Players that invest time into learning to play a killer are already rewarded: look at Blight/Nurse/Wesker mains. They dominate in chase and use the killer's power to its fullest. The killer's power is designed in a way to be mechanically challenging, and rewards mechanical skill and prediction.
Now look at Artist, Trapper, and Hag. All of whom reward the killer for knowing common loops and give them a way to shut them down against strong survivors. Both of which require a moderate amount of game knowledge to apply, and in the case of Artist, some timing and gamesense as well.
Basically, almost every killer in the game has some form of interactivity to them, in some way or another. Now, let's look at Skull Merchant (and to a lesser extent, Knight). Here is the most optimal way to play the killer:
Equip genkick perks and Sloppy.
Identify the best 3-gen on the map.
Immediately beeline to the 3-gen and set up your drones.
Patrol your 3-gen and slowly chip away at the resources around it.
Continuously kick your gens and ensure they're at 0%.
Get downs if and when survivors permit, and hook them inside the 3-gen whenever possible.
Continue until you win.
There is absolutely nothing skillful, engaging, or interactive about this playstyle. It exacerbates one of DBD's most egregious tactics on the killer side (3-genning) on a killer whose entire kit has only one functionality: to 3-gen. If the devs are fully aware that 3-gens are a mistake - as they've already stated and emplaced Deja Vu as a temporary band-aid fix until they address them - then there shouldn't be a killer whose sole strength relies in abusing this mechanic and turning games into a slogfest where you win due to boredom and attrition.
There also nothing skillful or interactive when survivors keep pre leaving generators early. That should be nerfed too. Both sides of the game should be encouraged to interact with their opponent(s).
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I’m not here to talk about killers. In your personal opinion what is the most outdated mechanics of dbd? These could be from the beginning that serve no purpose anymore in the modern age.
I really think chests are the most outdated mechanic in the game cause it wastes time and you’re never going to use it cause the blood web gives you better items.
Terror radius ranges and lullaby ranges are much too big, and they encourage survivors to create 3-gen situations where games last way too long, when the survivors keep leaving the generators super early.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489683#Comment_3489683
Please go through my post history and quote the posts where I ask for nerfs.
There is a way to nerf SWF without hurting Solo. Devs could just put restrictions on repeat perks and/or items and add-ons when 3 or more players form a SWF. They won’t because of backlash.
I don’t need to say anything good or bad for survivors. I think they’re in a good spot and that the game is as balanced as it will ever be. My main issue with this game are the lopsided maps that the devs refuse to balance fairly. And if you’ve actually paid attention to my posts, you’d see I’m all for nerfing Nurse and Blight only after they make maps more fair for weaker killers, not before.
BHVR could also nerf things that are specifically stronger when the survivors are using voice comms to relay game information. Nerfing altruistic healing speed could have been an example, but BHVR decided to nerf self healing speed instead, which actually widens the gap between solo q and SWFs.
Nerfing MFT's extra ability for altruistic healing, is another example of shortening the gap between solo q and SWF. Removing EMP's ability to remove biopods from teammates is another way to shorten the gap between solo q and SWF. Just about any nerf that targets players working together, is a way to shorten the gap between solo q and SWF.
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@Trollinmon said:
The thing with Nurse is you need to be able to break los twice. If there is only a single los breaker then she can blink to that los and now you are in the open. With all the clutter they have been adding to the maps I don't think she is that large of an issue anymore since you usually have stuff to work with.
Yeah. The increased line of sight breakers make it so Nurse has to guess way more than she used to.
With the older map reworks, when a survivor broke line of sight, then Nurse could usually just blink a bit beyond where the survivor broke line of sight, and have full vision of the survivor regardless of where the survivor ran to. But when there are a bunch of line of sight blockers next to each other, there's no guaranteed blink destination when the survivor breaks line of sight, because regardless of where Nurse blinks to, the survivor might still be not in line of sight after Nurse teleports.
This means BHVR indirectly nerfed Nurse by adding RNG into her gameplay.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488091#Comment_3488091
I'm sorry for using the terminology of the developers instead of studying the traditionalist lingo.
Semantics aside, I think this upcoming change is great. It eliminates the cheapest forms of camping, while still leaving it a viable pressure tool - or even an entire playstyle for those who pick the right tools for it.
Semantics are important, and it was a misuse of words for it to be called anti-face camping. The word "face" in "facecamping" meant the killer was directly up against the survivor's face! It's in the name. This isn't some obscure etymology of the word. At 16 meters away, the killer might not even be able to see the killer's face, and if the mechanic works through floors and ceiling, then the killer might be over 30+ seconds of travel time from the hooked survivor.
And the change is only good if killers get some help in finding someone else to chase. Otherwise, it would still often be the best strategy to stay by a hooked survivor, regardless of the consequences. What point is there in leaving a hooked survivor, for a CHANCE of finding someone else, when you are guaranteed to know where the hooked survivor is now? If the survivors are using voice comms, and the hooked survivor relays the killer's position to the rest of the SWF, they could easily hide far away from generators if the killer tries to leave the hooked survivor.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488020#Comment_3488020
It's Kindred distance. If you're inside that, you're basically facecamping, just shy about it.
It's also said that it's speed depends on the distance - inside 5m is the max.
Facecamping originally meant 0 inches from the survivor. As in the killer is so close to the hooked survivor’s face, that the killer is literally blocking other people from getting an unhook prompt.
Evolving the word facecamping, from “0 inches” to “16 meters” is such a horrible misuse of the language.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487949#Comment_3487949
The survivors trying to complete their objective to escape when the killer is camping their objective is somehow the survivor's fault? that is a confusing take.
I’ve said multiple times the problem is with killers AND survivors. Both sides of the game are contributing to the 3-gen problem, and a good solution should fix the issue from both sides of the game.
Both sides of the game are trying to complete their objective, so trying to blame one side of the game 100% is wrong.
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@Evan_ said:
Note: The devs never once talked about an anti-camping feature.
They always advertised this as an anti-facecamp feature. Proxy camping is cool.
They advertised it as anti-face camping, but the previewed solution went out to something like 16 yards away from a hooked survivor, which isn’t face camping at all.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487802#Comment_3487802
they were still close enough that I could defend them a very long time when all the survivors pre-leaved the generators super early and therefore really didn’t get much repair time.
your suppose to repair generators as the killer walks away to kick gens. i think that is why otz calls it yoyoing because your yoyoing the killer to kick gens and slowly chipping away at the gen until you complete it.
The “yoyoing” strategy needs to be nerfed as part of the 3-gen solution. The 3-gen problem is an issue for both sides of the game, and both sides should be nerfed as part of the solution.
We shouldn’t be seeing the 3-gen problem as “100% the killers fault”, when survivors are absolutely part of the problem too.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487639#Comment_3487639
shift-w away from generators when the killer is coming is smart survivor play. haste is the mechanic to counter it but killer have no consistently good haste perks. as a result the strategy has no real counter if your not a top-tier high mobility killer that can use their mobility in the chase.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the “smart survivor play”. Defending a 3-gen is the “smart killer play”. So why should a 3-gen solution be 100% nerfs on the killer, when the problem is caused by both sides?
Because if BHVR’s solution is just to move the generators farther apart, then the survivor tactic of pre-leaving generators, and excessively avoiding the killer, will be an auto win against some killers and some killer builds. I’ve had people complain about a “3-gen” when the 3 generators were very far apart, but they were still close enough that I could defend them a very long time when all the survivors pre-leaved the generators super early and therefore really didn’t get much repair time. Because really, that is what some people mean by “3-gen”, where it’s possible at all to defend the generators, and some people just want the generators so absurdly far apart that it’s an auto-loss for the killer of the survivors excessively hide at the first sign of a terror radius.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487536#Comment_3487536
your complaint is unclear. your not complaining about not being able to find survivors. your complaining about survivors holding shift-w away from you and effective yoyoing survivor tactics. you can fix that by playing high mobility killers that have strong mobility options though i am not sure how BVHR would improve this situation for m1 killers other than giving them permanent haste effects in the form of perks.
I'm complaining about both.
1) I'm complaining that some survivors are excessively hiding, so the killer doesn't find anyone when they get to a generator.
2) I'm complaining that some survivors, instead of hiding near a generator, will just shift-w far away at the first sight of a terror radius symbol, which still results in the killer not finding anyone when they get to a generator. And the survivor is so far away that it's not worth trying to search for them.
And it's a double standard that it's ok when survivors want basekit help for things like 3-gen, but it's not ok if killers want basekit help for things like 3-gen. It's a major problem when survivors excessively avoid the killer, just like how it's a problem when killers excessively avoid some of the survivors (which is what camping and tunneling is). The game should be pushed into a more chase-oriented game, which can only happen if killers AND survivors are both pushed into more chases.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487486#Comment_3487486
right but camping, tunneling and 3 gen is still in the game. in your post, you complain about patroling gens and not finding anyone. Nowhere to hide is exactly that. you get aura reading for kicking gens to avoid hiding survivors. a counter to stealth. I personally don't have this problem but you seem to have this problem so the perk is right there for you fix your weaknesses.
That perk just makes people run even farther away, and still results in a slow 3-gen game. The difference is that BHVR wants to give survivors help in this situation, but I haven't heard them mentioning any help for killers...... which means survivors can just excessively hide and profit from whatever anti 3-gen mechanic BHVR adds to the game.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487409#Comment_3487409
For the record, I play on PC, this might be a difference on systems used.
1: I much more frequently have this go the other way where I as killer get hits I never thought I'd hit.
2: Again, I have a much different experience than you do. Once I'm anywhere in the vicinity of a survivor, tracking them via sound feels almost too easy.
3: FoV is the thing they're discussing changing. I've never had a problem with it, but understand there are a lot who do.
4: I wouldn't have a problem addressing the spin tech that some survivors can do, but that becomes a question of whether you think survivors should have any chance of defense once the killer gets close.
5: I can't comment on this because I have a totally different experience. There are lots of things I struggle with as killer, but finding survivors is pretty straightforward. Not only are there audio and visual ques, there are the aura reading perks and as the game progresses the number of places survivors are likely to be drastically shrinks.
6: Agree that this is kind of a stalemate situation if the survivors just decide to pull back completely.
7: We're back on the issue of how difficult it is to find survivors.
8: I don't know if that is the intent of scratch marks, so much as show the general location of a survivor.
Summary: Points 2, 5, 7, and 8 all kind of deal with the issue of finding survivors. While I've said this isn't an issue for me, it's also not a complaint I generally hear from killer mains. Given the propensity of aura reading perks, stealth plays are already risky as is without bringing distortion, and hiding survivors cannot progress the objectives so the benefits they gain seem like a trade off.
Point 1 I think everyone agrees is an issue, just whether it benefits survivors or killers more is disagreed upon.
3 they are changing, 4 and 6 I agree on (though 6 is already against the rules, it's just something that has to be reported).
Point 1 isn't what you think it is. You're talking about game latency, where the server validation sometimes makes a hit that looks bad on one of the player's screens. I'm talking about a bug that literally steals hits from the killer, as in the game forbids the killer from lunging, and it steals hits from the killer because the killer would have gotten the hit if the game had allowed them to lunge.
Killers don't usually complain about hidden survivors, because they just deal with it by camping, tunneling, and 3-gens. Why should a killer leave a hooked survivor to patrol the map, when there's a very real chance they might not find anyone, and the survivors might get a free unhook when the killer is away? It's too risky, because when survivors pre-leave generators and are hiding in random parts of the map, it's unrealistic to expect killers to find them.
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@crogers271 said:
Are you saying that you guys purposely design killer kits to only be worth a damn up to a certain point, after which you basically have to drop them if you want to continue to stand a decent chance at victory?I'm not sure you'll get an official response, but I think you make an error on saying 'design', especially given the 7 year history of the game. I think the point is that its not inherently a problem that certain killers aren't as competitive at the highest levels.
It's also worth pointing out that BHVR, who believes that MMR generally works despite the opinion of many on this forum, have the goal that eventually all killers will feel like they've hit high MMR. Eventually, if MMR works, a killer should hit a period where they win and lose 50% of games and because MMR is hidden you have no idea whether you are high, mid, or low, but it will feel like you are at high.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487180#Comment_3487180
Many of them just aren't fun. I won't play Trapper, if it means the only way I can deal with good teams is by playing basement Trapper. I won't play Singularity, Knight or SM no matter how strong they are as long as I don't enjoy them.I agree with most of your post, but slight disagreement here.
It doesn't matter if most players find a killer fun to play. For a killer to be viable only a small portion of players who are killers have to play them. If 1 out of 50 times a killer is chosen it's Twins, but that player loves Twins, and the survivors enjoy playing Twins, then rarity is not a huge problem.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487192#Comment_3487192
and killers get something involving FoV, and they partially benefit from survivor bots? And that’s it after all these years? Where are the other player experience buffs that are primarily focused on killers? Why is there such a huge imbalance regarding which role gets the player experience buffs?Outside Field of View what exactly would you want that could apply to all killers?
That's the big difference. Survivors get changes because there are numerous elements of the game that are just awful from the survivor's perspective. Facecamping ruins the game because you just sit there, 3 genning that goes 45 minutes is a slog and not exciting at all, etc. These are elements of the game that could apply to any killer and any survivor scenario so enacting a change isn't that hard.
Most of the killer complaints are either specific killer related or balance based, over which there is a lot more argument.
1) The game needs to stop double validating killer attacks. This is why the game has the forced short M1 attack bug that can steal hits from the killer. And if double validation can cause aim dressing to steal hits from the killer, than that should be fixed too.
2a) Sound occlusion is way too overtuned. Survivors noises shouldn't be super muffled or deleted just because line of sight is broken, especially with this new map strategy of filling maps with way too much clutter.
2b) Chase music is too loud
2c) Survivor noises are too quiet. Footsteps sometimes just go silent, depending on things like ground material, and that should be fixed too.
3) FoV should be fixed, enough that survivors don't "teleport" out of the killer's FoV.
4) Survivor movement needs additional animation frames, so the movements look smoothly animated from the killer's screen, instead of survivors wildly spinning their cameras, or wildly pressing movement buttons, to purposely cause their character to make erratic movements that are missing so many animation frames that it's unnecessarily difficult for the killer to follow. And if survivors are currently allowed to use a tech to exceed the intended turning speed then BHVR should fix that too.
5a) If killers are expected to leave a hooked survivor to find someone else to chase, than BHVR needs to majorly help the killer find someone else to chase. It's unfair to punish killers for not interacting with all the survivors, but then tell survivors it's totally fine to excessively hide from the killer instead of interacting with them.
6b) Survivors excessively hiding in general needs to be fixed. Patrolling maps and finding zero people because everyone is hiding feels bad, and survivors that pre-leave generators at the first sign of a heartbeat terror radius are a problem too. Part of the 3-gen problem involves excessively hiding survivors. In fact, many of the killer "problems" happen because it often feel like a waste of time to patrol the map to find hidden survivors.
7) Fix the excessive clutter and line of sight blockers from the maps, that were added as the "new map strategy". It makes it unnecessarily annoying to find and chase survivors, and it makes some killer powers feel like garbage. And maps should never be red, unless killers are allowed to have preset colors for things like scratchmarks/blood/auras, so that the map colors don't purposely hinder the killers.
8) Scratchmarks need to be more consistent, and actually show a path more consistently. There are too many instances where I survivor makes a sharp turn, and the killer sees zero scratchmarks showing if the survivor went left or right, and the killer has to basically guess a direction, and possibly spin around if they guessed incorrectly.
Summary: All the above things are purposely designed to work against killers, for the sake of survivor fun. This is starting to become a PvE game, where the killer is just fighting purposely bad game mechanics, instead of fighting the survivors.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487192#Comment_3487192
I'm not saying Killer doesn't need more. Trapper needs some sort of buff if anyone but new players are to main them, the most original and coolest Killer concept in my opinion (the Singularity) is almost never seen despite being new and I often make jokes about the Twins asking who they are and if they've been added to the game yet as examples.
My only point was that VHS stands as an example as to why games can't balance exclusively for the top. While the best players' experience is important if a game is so miserable at the lower ends that people don't have fun then player numbers drop and the game dies (but devs don't want all the experienced players quitting en masse either if they want a successful game).
Personally, I think the VHS devs lost the forest for the trees. Balance is a tool used to acheive fun; not vice versa. The most important item for a successful product is do people want to use it and VHS focused on is it balanced instead of asking do people want to play the game. Perfect balance at any skill level means nothing if not enough people for the game to survive want to play.
Honestly, I think the fact that killer was super miserable to play, was more important than the fact the game was balanced for the top players. The game wasn't fun for killers of average level, and it wasn't fun for killers at the top level. It really didn't matter what level the game was balanced for, because the killer role was an unsatisfying mess for everyone.
In fact, high level VHS killer gameplay was even more miserable to watch than average gameplay, because the good killers stopped and hesitated so much more than the average killer, and it always seemed like the killers were more afraid of the survivors, than the survivors were afraid of the killers.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485435#Comment_3485435
That's part of it but not the whole story. The dev's emphasis was on balancing for the top, where Monster players could perform well if they suffered enough to make it there, and they gave far more emphasis to what a few hundred people who were the best players said during closed beta.
The feedback from those who weren't at the top was given far lesser weight and often written off as 'Dbd players trash talking VHS to kill the competition'. That's part of the reason why the 'git gud' mentality was such a prevalent response instead of addressing the factors that drove off most of the new players. While a few people did well as new Monsters most would have had to suffer through dozens of losses before they got to the point that they could deal with other issues. New players with no investment in a game generally will seek out something more fun and the numbers dropped precipitously.
So while what you mentioned was part of it the balancing for the top was the overriding factor. It was at almost an exact 50% won rate at the top for high end games and doing anything to change that (eg making Monster more fun) was overlooked as that balance was the metric that lead to the game's death. A game can't balance exclusively for the top unless it's revenue comes from spectators and not participants.
The dev’s emphasis was that it’s super important for survivors to have good player experience….. and killers just get promised a decent kill rate.
Being a top 1% killer in VHS didn’t fix any of the player experience issues that killer had, it just meant that it’s possible to have miserable player experience and still win a decent percentage of games.
This is very similar to what BHVR seems like they are doing. We get announcement after announcement for BHVR creating some solution to help the survivor player experience, but after all these years the only thing announced primarily for killer player experience is something involving FoV. And BHVR states multiple times that if the survivor buffs move the kill rate too much, that BHVR will fix it, which means that it’s ok if the killer player experience is awful as long as the kill rate is where it should be.
So survivors get an entire HUD, visual heartbeat, removed hook grabs, a future anti-face camp mechanic, survivor bots that were primarily added to help survivors, and a future anti-3 gen mechanic, and increased map clutter and increased line of sight blockers to help survivors hide/escape chases/avoid killer powers….. and killers get something involving FoV, and they partially benefit from survivor bots? And that’s it after all these years? Where are the other player experience buffs that are primarily focused on killers? Why is there such a huge imbalance regarding which role gets the player experience buffs?
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487073#Comment_3487073
We are actively looking into sources of frustration at the same time. As you've mentioned, we've already announced a system that will help combat facecamping, and we've also mentioned that we'll be looking into excessively long 3-gen situations as well.
That said, we cannot possibly solve every possible reason someone might have for disconnecting. Anyone who has been around for a while will know that sometimes people disconnect for the pettiest of things: They were the first to be chased, they got outplayed at a loop, or maybe they irrationally hate The Wraith for some reason. These are all things we cannot fix. We cannot make them invincible just because they might get upset if they are caught. Moreover, it's not possible for us to know what else is going on behind the screen. We can't tell if someone had a rough day at work, or maybe they've had a rough string of matches and they're carrying that negativity into their current one. To expect that every single disconnect is for a rational reason would be naïve of us.
And this also assumes that all disconnects are intentional. There are also legitimate connection losses that could cause someone to disappear. Much as I would love to have the power to make the world's internet perfectly stable, that is not something we can do.
I hope the 3-gen problem is fixed for both sides. I’ve sometimes had long 3-gen games, where the generators were far apart, but the survivors would run away from the generators as soon has the heartbeat symbol showed up, which meant I would spend huge amounts of time patrolling generators and not actually finding anyone to chase.
Survivors that excessively hide from the killer are a major problem with some 3-gen situations, and if the 3-gen solution just involves nerfs for the killer, then it would just encourage survivors to really pre-leave generators as early as possible, so they can avoid the killer and be rewarded for it by BHVR’s 3-gen solution.
There’s also the major problem where some generators are so far apart, or exist in really survivor-safe areas, and it feels like they aren’t worth defending at all. And again, this is a problem because it’s not worth patrolling to these generators if the survivors are excessively hiding, because the killer won’t find anyone, especially on maps like the new map that have so more clutter that it’s unrealistic to expect the killer to search every object for a hidden survivor.
It really feels like BHVR wants to label problems as 100% the fault of the killer, and wants solutions that are just 100% nerfs for the killer, and it’s frustrating. For example, the anti-facecamping solution so far looks like it’s just 100% nerfs for the killer, and 0% of anything that might help the killer find someone else to chase so they could have a positive reason for leaving a hooked survivor. Removing hook grabs so far also looks like a 100% nerf for killers, with a 0% of anything to help killers.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485925#Comment_3485925
Interesting. How is it then possible, that if I go in one direction and then double-back, that survivors will go to my other side and let themselves be hit? And I am talking about all survivors... Maybe perhaps... They don't know perfectly well where spirit is after all? Or they maybe don't have time to react perfectly well? Go figures.
Also I have exactly the same experience when going against spirit. I don't know about you, but all I can say is approximate direction. And double backs work
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485651#Comment_3485651
Yes. She has quite a number of addons, that are beyond useless
"Doesn't have time to perfectly react" sounds a lot like "brute forcing with speed". Spirit's directional audio perfectly tells which direction Spirit is, and it's constantly updating, so survivors should know instantly if Spirit changes directions.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485450#Comment_3485450
So if it's not 100% guarantee, then it's not mindgame? That's not how it works. The game is designed to give both sides a chance.
There are very few loops, that are short enough, that your case would actually be true. I have seen some insane spirits, that mindgamed even shack with downed pallets (that's a bit extreme, but still possible). I don't know what more you would want. 99% of loops are less safe than shack
If survivors have enough information where they don’t need to guess, then it’s not a mindgame.
The buffed directional audio is 100% crystal clear, is loud enough to be easily heard through chase music, and isn’t affected by sound occlusion. There’s no room left for mindgames.
Mindgames is just the fancy word for anything that requires someone to make a guess.