Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566144#Comment_3566144
You get the void energy stuff from generator repairs, yes, but also those little orbs floating around, from smashing pumpkins, and from stunning the killer. You also don't have to finish the generator, let alone all five, to get energy.
This event is the least sweaty play has ever been encouraged. It does incentivise playing the game, you can't completely ignore the core gameplay loop, but the event itself actually encourages not rushing the generators or trying to get kills asap, because that way you won't get to engage with the actual new mechanics- unlike previous events where the mechanics were pretty straightforward and the cosmetics were all people wanted, encouraging them to get out of the trial ASAP.
If you're seeing people playing sweaty, that's the players, not the event. There's not much more this event could do to prevent those players from playing that way.
The event should make the event mechanics useful, beyond tome rewards. If a killer spends time in the void realm, but zero survivors are there because they are busy repairing generators, then the killer just threw the match, because releasing a spirit is so useless for the killer that it’s not worth the time spent in the void realm.
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@solarjin1 said:
no more cringe sitting on the hay? Massive W
I kinda feel a bit bad for the survivors tho..the harvester right back to being a terribly weak loop. Can we please open another rancid abattoir window in the main building now.
The only thing the hay bales did, was punish killers that couldn’t reliably drop onto the hay bales from the outside of the harvester.
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@NuKeD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565641#Comment_3565641
this mechanic should promote proxy camping, but camping above basement is like "face-camping", other people can't really save you if the killer stands above and your meter bar is not filling. that match was painful to play, as there was no counter-play to that. one teammate had to die to save another one. lame gameplay by the killer.
Maybe it’s fixed in today’s patch?
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@scrunkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565327#Comment_3565327
im ngl i have no idea what you think i was implying, but i dont understand why hitting a survivor over an object would be a "trick shot" and even if it is, i dont see the problem? going for hits over objects was the main appeal of xeno for me, i dont want to only hit survivors thatre locked into an animation or straight lining etc. up until the recent midchapter, xeno was able to do that reliably. most wouldnt call a huntress or slinger that hits over an object a "trick shot", so why is xeno being able to do it too an issue all of a sudden
Calling it a trick shot is a problem because it gives the impression that Xeno can make any sort of special shot... and it can't.
The tail's hitbox was heavily nerfed between the PTB and Live, and it was heavily nerfed again when the cooldown bug was fixed. Xeno's tail has been absolute trash compared to a Nemesis whip, and this happened before the midchapter dropped.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565308#Comment_3565308
Yes it appears like you are hitting a survivor that is already ducked in some situations.
It also appears like the tail goes straight through survivors in other situations.
I have no idea ######### the game is actually doing to make the decision over the hit being a hit or a miss. I suspect you could sum it up as the location of the tail at any given moment is not equal to what a player might be seeing, in so far as such things can be said to represent each other, the Xeno tail is poor at it.
When survivors are "crouching under objects", they are often very much visible and in line of sight of the tail, it's just that it might look like it's a trick shot because Xeno's field of view is very low in crawler mode.
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@scrunkly said:
im aware of how the hitbox looks visually while attacking. i didnt say it was an arc??
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565310#Comment_3565310
You said "crouch under objects" like it's some sort of trick shot.
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@scrunkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565241#Comment_3565241
this would make sense if it were consistent. the problem is that you can still hit survivors that crouch under objects but its just very unlikely, its still possible which makes me think its a bug rather than intended
Xeno's tail attack doesn't arc over objects. That's just an illusion that happens because Xeno has a lowered field of view in crawler mode, but the tail's hitbox it based off of Xeno's normal field of view (which is taller than it is in crawler mode).
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564692#Comment_3564692
The penalties are harsh. Disconnecting players can receive up to a week-long ban, I believe?
The maximum penalty is harsh, but it either takes too many ragequits to get there, or the penalty decays too quickly, because I’m seeing way too many ragequits.
A lot of people think they get X amount of free ragequits per week, and they want to use all of them.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564530#Comment_3564530
Hon, I needn’t twist your words and it’s not about being right or wrong. The essence of your whole comment was that survivors should remain in matches where they aren’t having fun because somebody elses fun is more important than their own. My response was that’s unrealistic, no game can force it, and no matter how you try to dress it up (“they should stay and learn from their mistakes/loss!” “They should play so that other people have fun, be compassionate” or whatever) it’s not gonna happen. People buy and play video games for their own entertainment, not the fulfillment of others. And that goes for killers AND survivors. It’s just the truth.
Survivors should remain in matches because ragequitting is unsportmanlike. And no one is saying people should be literally forced into staying in a match. But we are saying there should be harsher ragequitting penalties for people that ragequit too much.
And if harsher ragequitting penalties are made, people should still have the choice to ragequit... But we should realize that freedom to ragequit isn't the same thing as freedom from penalties.
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Can we consider a locker pass, only when the killer is Dredge, Huntress, or Trickster?
We don’t need to buff survivors against the vast majority of killers, just for the benefit of 3 killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's interesting how people can have a total different experience with this game. I see a number of you saying the DCs you see are skyrocketing. I'm seeing the opposite. Seeing a lot less DCs.
Ever since survivor bots were implemented, I’ve been seeing more games that have at least 1 DC, but less DCs overall.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563254#Comment_3563254
What’s the issue with the darkness? People would probably just complain about the fog too.
I think someone said the darkness was causing eye strain. Having an accessibility option, that replaces darkness with fog should fix that, while keeping the power effect exactly the same.
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People can ask for an accessibility option, where instead of darkness it’s foggy. And it will be 100% functionally the same, where it will 100% obscure the environment. But it will obscure the environment with fog instead of darkness.
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@Zokenay said:
Think we need one? its well know by know that killers like Dredge are heavily map dependent due to the lockers, we could also count Trickers and Huntress in this lot due to both also interacting with lockers
They could simply add a few lockers in areas that are completely lacking on them, like the outside area in RPD.
There should be a locker pass, but only when the killer is Dredge, Huntress, or Trickster. For the other killers, the locker pass would be an unnecessary nerf.
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Dredge is the center of attention in this rift's posters, but some people are refusing to use his rift weapon because it takes up too much space on the screen. That's so sad. Why bother trying to get people hyped up for the new Dredge skin, when the weapon is so huge that it's a giant disadvantage to use it?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560767#Comment_3560767
xeno is suppose to be able to strafe right & left and up to down. if it does not work that way then it is still bugged. I agree turret drawback is terrible but killer have to play against that silly mechanic.
There's something about Xeno's attack that just makes it very unreliable...
1) I'm discovering that Xeno's "tail charge + tail attack are glued together" is actually a really bad thing. The tail charge has a visual and audio warning, and if a survivor has good reaction time, they can dodge really far before the actual attack happens. And the survivor can be so far away that trying to strafe the tail attack doesn't help.
2) On the other hand, Nemesis having a separate charge animation and attack animation might sound like it should be worse... but even though the charge animation makes it easier for the survivor to start dodging, when Nemesis finally does hit the attack button, it feels like the attack happens so quickly that the survivor can't dodge far away. And if the survivor does end up dodging, they'll still be close enough for Nemesis to strafe the whip to hit the survivor.
3) Strafing the tail attack appears to work on survivors that aren't moving at all, but it still doesn't seem to be reliable when the survivors are moving. Maybe it's just that the Nemesis whip is a 100% reliable attack, where it's 100% crystal clear when the attack is happening, and when I can strafe... and the tail attack isn't any of those things.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
I feel like Dredge daytime teleport is actually quite good because the slower movement means you can much better listen to noise as you travel and get a good idea where everyone is. And comparing it to Xeno or Demo by movement speed alone does not give you a good idea about his teleport being better or worse.
Demo has to manually set teleports which takes time and must go to one to use it.
Xeno doesn't need to set up but still has to manually enter and its only in few predetermined spots.
Dredge even during daytime when he is at his weakest can just use whenever and where ever he wants with only a very low cooldown (12 by default, 8 with an add-on), only limited by lockers which are more numerous than Demo/Xenos limited tunnels, and he got a power-spike which allows you to find survivors easily and is so fast he is virtually omnipresent, not to mention it has very good synergy with a lot of perks.
I feel like the only buffs he could need are more evenly distributed lockers and maybe make his most effective add-ons partially basekit, especially malthinkers skull which is probably the best yellow add-on in the game.
Xeno’s “teleport” is much more consistently useful, because the teleport spots are very often next to generators.
….meanwhile, locker spawns are all over the place, and sometimes half the generators aren’t near any lockers. I still think there should be special locker spawning rules when the killer is Dredge.
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This is happening to me.
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I’m already having survivors try to lure me into the AFC zone, and then stealth away, hoping that I’ll stay in the AFC zone to look for them… so people are already trying to weaponize AFC.
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@Maperson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560735#Comment_3560735
Turrets should be mandatory, that’s what makes killers different from each other, forcing you to adapt to different playstyle , but i guess that’s not the aim for them
Survivors are just dodging left or right when they hear the tail's audio attack warning (or when they see the visual tail warning), and Xeno is forbidden from adjusting the attack to follow the survivor.
Nemesis being able to adjust the whip by strafing left/right is far more useful than Xeno being able to adjust the tail up/down.
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I tried Xeno yesterday, and the tail attack is still harder to aim than a Nemesis whip. Xeno isn't worth playing. If I'm expected to deal with the hassle of turrets, then I want a chase power that feels powerful.
It's like Xeno's power is balanced around survivors not having turrets, because we "don't want survivors to feel like turrets are mandatory", but then Xeno still needs to deal with the turrets. It's a lose lose for Xeno.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
It has been about a year since the big meta change and the nerf of Iron Will. Back then I had the concern that the perk would not be as beneficial to some loud characters like Jeff or Bill as it is to Ace or Ada who are naturally more quiet. I made a post about this and the question was also addressed by a following QnA stating that they plan on making all Survivors having the same volume when injured.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/330242/new-iron-will-is-unfair-and-here-is-why
Nothing happened. Newer characters are more on the same noise level though (except Rebecca for some reason).
Is there anything planned or is it not possible to change anymore because the voice actors of older characters are no longer available? I would just like to know.
Thank you.
BHVR could easily use the existing sound files.
The big question is "how loud should all the survivors be"? Because maybe BHVR can't agree on this? Maybe someone at BHVR wants everyone to be as loud as Ada, and someone at BHVR wants everyone to be as loud as Jeff? Have you noticed that no one at BHVR has ever told us which survivor is going to be the loudness standard that everyone else is based on?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559330#Comment_3559330
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559351#Comment_3559351
It is seconds later. There's an addon called VCR + a lot of weskers (at least those that go into match with hard-tunnel in mind) will proxy-camp so that they can hit you with M2 during your BT (before you have any possibility to hide or get anywhere). I don't know the exact math, but I would presume it's like 20s to full infection. Once you are fully infected the chase will end within 10s if this Wesker is not terribly bad. Overall these Weskers usually end up in 3v1 at 5-3 gens left
Then the proper solution to this problem is to remove the infection gain from M2's that hit a survivor during their unhook basekit BT.
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@Neprašheart said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559037#Comment_3559037
What about the delay before the tail even hits?
Was this also intended, or are we encountering yet another bug in regards to the tail attack?
I have already described that within my previous response, but because I have received zero feedback and only upvotes, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think about this.. As in, is this intended, or is the tail's hitbox and cooldown completely out of place?
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559330#Comment_3559330
i cant believe there are still people who dont read the post fully. i said hindered while being tunnel off hook since u get infected 50% off hook then seconds later you are slow while being tunneled. but oh well some people never change
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559224#Comment_3559224
you give the vibe of a wesker who relly on the hindered tunneling wesker meta. ive seen too often to not think you are of them. just by the fact you refuse to agree with a basic thing. being slowed while tunneled off hook is a big nono.... i guess you are the reason we are making this post in the first place. even @Devil_hit11 agrees with the tunneling slow down part
It’s not “seconds later”. You’re massively exaggerating how quickly the infection bar fills up.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559021#Comment_3559021
Again, Xeno was bugged. The devs fixed the bug AND reverted the attack cooldown to the PTB status (which is a Nerf).
Xeno was made weaker twice since the PTB, and that is why Xeno’s pick rate has gone down so much.
It doesn’t matter why Xeno was made weaker twice. It doesn’t matter if Xeno was made weaker because of a bug fix or because of game balance reasons.
The fact that Xeno’s tail cooldown was made weaker, is a major reason for Xeno’s pick rate going down.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558299#Comment_3558299
Oh yeah he definitely got his penalty nerfed (only on LIVE version since PTB value was buffed for some reason). But we weren't able to test the buffed version on LIVE because it didn't apply correctly. So I think getting it nerfed before we even got to see how it was suppose to be wasn't too logical.
Now it's nerfed but there is another bug (lol 😭) so it actually makes him feel worse to play. But some people can't understand or differentiate how wrong his tail hitbox feels now and think that's the intended part of the nerf when nerf is only regarding miss-hit penalty speed and hitbox inaccuracy is clearly a bug.
It's also difficult for people to tell if Xeno is bugged, when BHVR refuses to mark the issue as a bug. Why is this still "under review"???
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557447#Comment_3557447
At least some of that probably has to do with MFT. If it eventually gets nerfed to a point where not as many people use it, some of them will probably go back to SB, which would mean DH’s usage rate will also go down.
I agree. I think most of it is because of MFT, which seems to be following the old dead hard trend, where it gets more and more overplayed as MMR goes up. I often to 2-3 MFTs per game.
I imagine that MFT is less popular in low MMR, because survivors need to know how to loop to get value out of it, and perks like Lithe are much easier for low MMR survivors to get value out of. This means that at higher MMR, the pickrate for MFT is probably way higher than 21%.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557447#Comment_3557447
Old habits Dead Hard, I suppose.
It's such a shell of what it was that I'm surprised it's still so high. Must be familiarity with it that leaves it so high? Or maybe a lot of players just like the timing minigame of parrying a killer.
1) Dead Hard is the best exhaustion perk to combo with Made For This.
2) Dead Hard is also good for people that want to do Buckle Up + For The People combo, because they lose a health state when they For The People someone else.
3) It's also good for the "stay injured" theme that a lot of survivors like doing, where they have perks like resilience, and priority generators over being healed.
4) It's also good because people aren't expecting it all the time anymore, and so many killers will just try to immediately attack when they can, so the first dead hard is usually a free health state because of that.
5) We still have a lot of survivors that can Dead Hard on reaction to a killer lunge. Neither of the Dead Hard changes actually addressed that problem.
@WilliamSN said:
Personally, the only perk that still surprises me , and doesn't at the same time, is self care, I wouldn't expect a global 15% to still run the noob trap perk.
Its been known for quite a while that survivor meta is a MFT+Resi variant with the most popular being, WOO+MFT+RESI+Adren.
People tried using the previous stats from april 27-august 5 to claim "MFT Isn't that big of a problem" meanwhile the perk "officially" sky rocketed to second place, only behind WOO , in the span of 20 days.
All in all, the official stats are still relatively close to Nightlight stats and lets us know that even though nightlight doesn't include "100% of the data" its still a very good place to go to if you want to see what perks are most commonly used.
The most obnoxious survivor build is still Buckle Up, For The People, Made For This, Dead Hard... because the survivor can make buckle up + for the people combos, and if the killer chases them because of For The People, the survivor has made for this and dead hard to extend the chase as long as possible.
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Dead Hard is STILL in the top 10, and it might see increased use after the anti-camp update, because there will be less survivors being hit immediately after being unhooked.
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The official stats say he’s not overperforming on average, and not overperforming at the top 5%. And the unofficial stats show him not overperforming too.
If he really was overperforming, then he would have been nerfed again by now.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556755#Comment_3556755
He does not "overperform" because he has the Nurse-kill-rate problem (according to which Nurse needs buffs).
He doesn't overperform because the top performing 6000+ hour streamers are not representative of the DBD community at all.
@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555809#Comment_3555809
So the Blight has the second best ability in the game, the best when you use his addons. Do you think having an addon that breaks pallets in 1.5s and give the survivor hindered 3% is fine? Having an addon that instantly replenishes your power, having an addon that gives you 4 upsides , Turn angle, +2 rushes, +10% Speed and 1s faster token recharge and a little downside to his turn rate and most importantly speed addons that have also 0 downside?
What happened with hug tech you said last year in may that it's a bug and it will be fixed(may 2022), we are in october 2023 and people are still using this exploit to this day.
You are not a dev so it's not your fault, however an update on this would be fine after such a long time.
Years ago, a BHVR dev tried for months to fix Blight's collision issues, and failed. Blight might need an entire code rework in order to fix his collision issues. Hug Tech is also the result of a bugfix to the M2 bug that happened when the secondary collision system was created, and if Hug Tech is removed than the M2 bug might start happening again.
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@Nazzzak said:
I suppose they could add the timer under the hook icon, but then that would give away if a killer was coming and going from the hook (you'd see the timer move every few seconds) which maybe the devs feel is too much info. Also I'm pretty sure the anti-camp is purely about the person on hook and giving them a chance to participate in the game, not about giving the team as a whole a leg up (swf will always be an exception because there's nothing BHVR can do about comms)
I really think this whole anti-camp thing is really just an anti-ragequit button for survivors that are being camped. It's really about making the camped survivor feel less frustrated so they don't ragequit, and it's not about buffing the entire survivor team.
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Solo q survivors will still get an unhook button if they are being camped, so they aren't being ignored. Survivors aren't entitled to extra buffs, just because voice comms exist.
And "solo survivors ignored once again" is a really awful to say, considering that the survivor HUD was built especially for solo survivors.
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@Brimp said:
Didn't they say themselves that it wasn't gonna be a full blown rework? Just an addon pass and a few changes to base kit which I assume is reducing victors CD post down back to 3 seconds because 8 second fatigue is surely fun :)
The words “adjust the slugging meta” were also used, but we don’t know if this is a buff or a nerf.
We also don’t know if the addon pass will be a buff or nerf.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556566#Comment_3556566
So Blight doesn't overperform and nurse is now trash. Let me name a few names then. Supaalf, LilthOmen, MomoSeventh, Knightlight. Do you really think the killer is so trash? I don't think there are higher winstreaks than these. But Nurse and Blight are bad killers with trash addons... Well. I don't really think so.
The fact that wesker can pick 6 addons and all of them change his playstyle slightly and still leave counterplay (but on the other hand make his power strong to be viable even against best players) makes him actually THE most successfully designed killer. The fact that people don't complain one way or another is ANOTHER reason why he's well designed. In fact people complain just about 2 things with his - that he's too common (because he's so well designed) and that he has too easy tunnel. That's it. That's PERFECT design.
Blight doesn’t over perform on average, and he doesn’t over perform at the top 5%. Those are the stats that matter.
The people with super high win streaks, are like the top 0.00001% of the players. That’s not representative of the player base at all, and the game should not be balanced around them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556577#Comment_3556577
The tricky thing about Twins is that all of the clunkiness and downtime is what balances them. Victor is a near auto-hit if someone is good with him, and he has crazy snowball ability. They're already an A tier killer with all of the clunkiness, so the devs probably want to be careful here.
The problem is this is supposed to be the “let’s make Twins more fun to play” rework.
If BHVR’s goal is to nerf Twins slugging, and give a few “tweaks” as compensation, then the “make more fun” rework will be a failure.
There’s nothing fun about getting nerfed, and this killer already struggles against coordinated SWFs. If slugging is getting nerfed, then this killer will feel even more awful and frustrating to play against coordinated SWFs, and they won’t be worth playing anymore.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556493#Comment_3556493
I agree with everything, but your conclusion. In my eyes what you are saying is - that if every perk was old DH (usable for distance), then that would have been success. Like instead of nerfing old DH, devs should have made it compete with OG mettle of man, OG DS and OG Object of obsession and that would have been success.
Well I very much disagree. From my point of view - blight is failure because of this. Like if say Freddy had 8 great addons, that would make it a little bad as he would be addon dependant, but it would be mostly fine. But giving very strong basekit killer like blight so many great addons is WEIRD to say the least and in my opinion it's even weirder to call it success.
Don't get me wrong - I want addons to be actually useful instead of just taking up space in bloodweb - that's why I think Pyramidhead and again Freddy should get addon pass. But we could get to same situation with Pyramidhead here too - very strong but still fair basekit ability that could be just too OP should he get a lot of insane addons - on the other hand leaving him without any good addons is also not a good idea. But to actually reflect on my wishes - best example of strong killer with good addons is Wesker - he has very strong basekit and almost all addons that do something meaningful and yet none that would make him "unbeatable". I want every killer to be Wesker in this regards.
Blight doesn’t overperform, and he has a lot of useable addons, so either 1) the addons are strong, but Blight is addon dependent, or 2) the addons aren’t as strong as you think they are, and Blight isn’t addon dependent.
This is like how a bunch of people claimed Nurse wasn’t addon dependent, but then her range and recharge addons got removed, and now she’s absolute trash for many players, because it turns out that she was very addon dependent for many people. She still might be very high in tier lists for 6,000+ hour competitive players, but for the majority of players, they’d have a higher win rate with someone else.
And Wesker’s a terrible example for good addons. The fact that I don’t ever see people on these forums complain about his addons, shows that all his addons are kind of weak. We have so many people on these forums that like to over exaggerate about killers or survivors, that when there’s zero complaints of something, then it’s not very good.
And Pyramid head will never be OP, as long as his M2 power is as bad as it currently is. Why would I want to pick a killer whose power is mostly only useful on animation-locked survivors, when I could pick someone like Wesker, whose power is useful even when survivors have full mobility to dodge?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555809#Comment_3555809
That's sad to read. I agree blight's power does not need to be changed, but his addons should be strictly nerfed - at least those that are considered OP by most people. Sure you can also buff some of his weak/underused addons too. But overall in my opinion his addons should not make such a significant difference as they do right now.
The difference between Blight, and many other killers, is that Blight actually has a wide variety of useable addons, so he doesn’t have “super overperforming addons” like other killers did.
I’ve seen streamers rotate between 8 of Blight’s addons, which is huge compared to most other killers. Compare this to Nurse, where her range and recharge addons were massively overpicked and overperforming over everything else. Or Spirit, where every streamer that wanted to winstreak literally was just spamming MDR + amulet, and that’s it.
When a killer has so many good addons, it should be seen as a success from a game design perspective.
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@Xernoton said:
I believe I read somewhere that they only planned to make some minor changes. Or did mix this up with something else?
Regardless, Twins would already be a lot better, if there wasn't a giant 7 seconds delay before you can switch between Victor and Charlotte. Make it so that you can switch after 3 seconds and that would already be a big improvement. Second, rework their addons. Most of them are terrible.
The words “adjust the slugging meta” were also used, but we don’t know what that actually means.
if Victor could switch to Charlotte immediately after a successful pounce, that would help adjust the slugging meta.
One of the biggest reasons for the slugging meta, is a successful pounce means Victor has a 5 second cooldown, then there’s a 3 second animation to switch to Charlotte, so it’s basically requiring the killer to do absolutely nothing useful for 8 seconds if they don’t want to slug. And this is on top of whatever travel time it would take for Charlotte to walk to the slugged survivor, then pick them up, then walk them to a hook. I would be much less likely to slug, if I knew that after a successful pounce, it would be quicker to switch to Charlotte, than it would be to stay as Victor.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556070#Comment_3556070
This would be cool! Imagine if they could apply this without bot Charlotte bugging out or losing her path everytime.😭
lol yes! I can just imagine Charlotte getting blocked off by dropped pallets, and instead of kicking a pallet, she just walks back and forth screaming Victor’s name over and over.
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@Venusa said:
First of all, I hope I'm still alive in 2024 when this alleged update drops!
Second, they said it's not going to be a full power re-work but more like minor tweaks and add-on pass on the latest Reddit AMA. I think at this point they're too afraid to touch Twins considering how prone to bugs and glitches they are... It has been a long time since their launch and there are still many persistent bugs that keep getting reintroduced with each patch. I wish we had the opportunity to see how they perform without all this mess before a "rework" but I guess we'll never know...
I’m really hoping they’re giving Victor a button to “recall Charlotte”, which will cause a bot to take over Charlotte, and have her walk over to where Victor is.
This would adjust the slugging meta, because it would reduce the problem of “Victor slugged a survivor, and Charlotte is so far away that it’s more valuable to just leave the survivor slugged”.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555626#Comment_3555626
If the other player stands in the Xeno's lower half , the tail will hit them, and the Xeno player won't know it.
The PTB says this is fixed. It was apparently a game breaking exploit.
I don't see any real application for either the vertical or ass attacks.
being able to drag the tail horizontally and vertically would be ideal, because as it is now there are some places where survivors seem to be 100% safe from it while still clearly able to be hit. I think the easiest fix would be if it flexed a bit.
One of the biggest problems with Xeno is its camera point of view. Xeno is super tall in normal mode, but BHVR gave this a normal height point of view. So then when Xeno goes into crawler mode, it’s stuck with a lowered point of view, which ends up confusing many people, because its tail attack isn’t based around this lowered point of view.
It honestly would be much better if Xeno’s point of view were a bit higher than normal when it is in the super tall normal mode, then Xeno would drop down to a normal point of view in crawler mode. This would make the attacks make way more sense from Xeno’s point of view.
Then BHVR could use aim dressing to fix the tail’s placement on the survivor’s screen, if a hit occurs.
If BHVR did these things, then we wouldn’t have so many issues where people don’t understand where to aim Xeno’s tail. I imagine that people that rely on tail dragging, will just miss some of their tail attacks, on crouching survivors or turrets, because instead of aiming correctly, they’ll aim over their target, will end up hitting the ground before they hit their target, then the attack fizzles so they end up missing the tail attack. I’ve seen so many people aim incorrectly on low targets, and it’s just sad. People just don’t seem to understand that Xeno sometimes needs to angle their camera dramatically downwards, to hit a low target with its tail.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555550#Comment_3555550
After going back and trying to hit over that wall, aside from the stacked boxes which block LOS in either camera position you can hit a standing survivor without dragging. Pulling down never seemed to hit, curve, or linger on any object on the map.
Pulling up had an effect.
This does not hit. Although the tail graphic passes through the survivor head.
This does hit a half a second later.(although the killer could not see the target, he just kept increasing his angle off target, this is almost 90 degrees from his Pov.
I think the tail does not bend. I think it is very out of sync with what the survivor sees. And I think the up hit works because He just shorted the distance while increasing the angle.
That scenario requires an upward tail drag, because the game yanks the camera downward if Xeno tries to do a tail attack at a steep upward angle.
Below is a screenshot from when I connected an attack with Jake, who was on the floor above. The tail itself doesn't look like it's angled high enough to reach the floor above.
Below is the yellow tail graphic that appeared shortly afterwards, which didn't match the tail's actual location at all.
And here's a before picture, which shows that Jake was actually visible from this angle. Disclaimer... I bumped up the brightness of the picture, because he's barely visible in the actual video.
1) I'm wondering if the tail attack actually starts behind Xeno, (I thought of this because I think one of the bugfixes stopped Xeno from being able to hit survivors behind it, and I was wondering what could have possibly caused that).
2) Anyways, I'm guessing BHVR didn't expect anyone to try to make a tail attack this vertical, so they never tried to get the tail graphic to match the attack in this scenario. …Or maybe Xeno’s camera got yanked because someone at BHVR realized that sharp vertical angles make the attacks look bad, and they were hoping the camera yank would stop people from making attacks like this?
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555541#Comment_3555541
She wasn't injured, she was facing the attack, her hit box was the capsule vertical, as in line with the body as it ever gets.
I do know each object in the game has some collision thing around it. For whatever reason, that thing doesn't match with its graphical representation. So, to figure out how to use Xenomorph, you have to go to each object and toss the tail around it.
The question was does it linger and hook down now? I have no video clips of it doing so, and it gets very complicated because the object collision in a lot of places is very different than its graphical representation.
You should look at the below screenshot, that is from Xeno's point of view, while not in crawler mode. That is the point of view that matters, because the tail's attack is based on the middle of Xeno's screen, as it is shown while not in crawler mode. Look at how much of the survivor is visible.
Remember that Xeno has a lowered point of view in crawler mode, and that the tail's attack isn't based on the lowered point of view.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555138#Comment_3555138
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4RPKQPKCJH8Q/rpdtallwall-frame-at-0m20s.jpg
The circle is the survivors bun and head.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XH4YTPQ88RH8/rpdtallwall-frame-at-0m21s.jpg
One second later the tail hits.
It looks like the tail goes through the two desks.
This is the only hit I consistently land over a tall wall.
That is what the survivor looks like when Xeno isn't in crawler mode. And considering that Xeno's tail attack starts higher than the middle of the screen (from Xeno's point of view while in crawler mode), then it makes sense that Xeno should be able to make this shot.
When you try to figure out if Xeno should be able to make a shot, you should look at Xeno's point of view, while not in crawler mode, because that would give you a much better idea of what shots it should be able to make.
It also helps when the survivor is uninjured, to give a better idea of what the survivor's hitbox looks like. Remember that injured survivors have the same hitbox as uninjured survivors, and the fact that the survivor is leaning forward, doesn't actually change their hitbox. This means a survivor's hitbox might be in a killer's field of view, even if the survivor isn't visible in the killer's field of view.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555307#Comment_3555307
I think you're both right and wrong about this, though I haven't tried to arc the tail over terrain that much.
The tail, from what I can tell, has a slight downward curve to it. If you try to tail strike a turret by aiming at it directly, you often strike the ground. I have to aim slightly above the turret so that the tail will actually hit it.
So I do think it's possible to arc it over terrain by looking up. But I don't think it works by looking up and dragging downward. I think people are imagining that works because the tail's hurtbox is so delayed right now. I think once the patch comes out, this will work by just aiming slightly over the terrain and right clicking.
The problem with the tail's hitbox, is we are so used to projectile killers, where the projectile starts in the direct middle of our screen. But Xeno's tail hitbox starts a bit above the center of the screen. This means that if Xeno is "too close" to something, they actually have to aim the tail differently. In the case of crouching survivors that are very close to Xeno, it requires Xeno to aim lower than the direct middle of their screen. This is why so many killers are missing crouching survivors with a tail attack, because they were expecting the tail's hitbox to always be in the direct middle of their screen.
The tail's hitbox starts a bit above the center of the screen, but it looks like it eventually reaches the direct middle of the screen by the time it reaches max length. But the hitbox is still always a straight line. The reason why it can sometimes look like it's curving over close objects, is because the hitbox starts higher than people expect, when they are at Xeno’s point of view.
Remember that Xeno’s point of view is lowered while in crawler mode, and I think Xeno’s tail attack actually starts where the center of the screen would have been if Xeno was at normal (point of view) height during crawler mode. And if Xeno’s tail hits a survivor that is too low to be visible in Xeno’s screen, you need to ask yourself “would the survivor be visible if Xeno’s point of view was at normal height, instead of the lowered height in crawler mode”?
Disclaimer 2… I think the actual reason tail dragging is popular is specifically because some people don’t know how to properly aim it. I think people realize the tail sometimes misses when they aim it at the center of their screen, but they aren’t sure why the attack is missing, so they just drag the tail downwards so they don’t need to actually stop and think about how to properly aim the tail.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555200#Comment_3555200
Well, I think its the motion blur that's making it rough to see, as the video is 1080p.
However slowing the video right down
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SBJTGEIU4T7M/screenshot-20231003-172141-firefox.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GRG7LJDGTGS9/screenshot-20231003-172242-firefox.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YVF7BVPXWC8F/screenshot-20231003-172407-firefox.jpg
You can see the initial frame where the hitbox starts. Otz has to throw it over the bench to clear it, the yellow strike is visible there.
He then drags it down, and the strike is now below line of the bench before the final frame where the hitbox sticks and hits the survivor behind the metal bed.
I agree the hitbox is still straight lines, it certainly won't actually curve the hitbox, I think what people are saying is you start the hitbox high and as it moves away from you can drag it down over things that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to strike over. If Otz had gone for this same point without aiming up, he'd have hit the bench, or been too late tag the survivor before they got behind the pallet. So the point is this hitbox is like a rock on a string, where you throw it over an obstacle and if you time it right, you can drag it into place on the other side.
Even without the bench being a factor, you can clearly see that Otz is aiming high to start with, and then successfully pulls the hitbox down. I know Nemesis' hitbox doesn't work like this, as that is essentially a series of straight lines from Nemesis 1 after another, so you aren't able to arc it over obstacles, which I think is what people are pointing out you can do on Xeno.
But regardless, it's not concrete proof granted, actual footage of a reproducible controlled test to remove issues like latency, blur, observer interpretation/bias, etc would be much more objectively acceptable as a proof. Sadly I don't have friends to lab it with 😁
I think there are multiple things going on here.
1) This video clip is a very rare scenario, where the tail starts at a tall object, then goes to a shorter object, and is the only time where tail dragging actually makes a difference.
2) I really honestly think when most people talk about tail dragging, they literally think it causes the hitbox to turn into a curved line. Like the below picture, where it's showing the hitbox literally turning into a curved line. This is NOT what the hitbox is doing....
3) If the tall object didn't exist, then tail dragging would have been completely unnecessary. The rock on a string is a bad comparison, because string can bend. It would be better to consider the tail hitbox as a straight metal pipe, and the pipe can be moved. Below is a picture of what tail dragging actually is doing...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555061#Comment_3555061
Yeah, but when he threw the tail, he threw over the bench and dragged down. I can't quite tell but it also looks like the survivor crouched, because I can't see them over the obstacle.
Without a visible map of the hitboxes, its hard to tell for sure, but that looks a lot like dropping the tail hitbox to me.
Plus as I say, this isn't the example I wanted to find, but I can't the one that pulls it over over the barricade in RPD.
Would be happy to see a custom game where someone labs it.
The only way the tail drag could have been relevant, is if the hitbox was first active on the tall bench, and so the tail needed to start high up to avoid the bench. But the tail hitbox is still straight lines, regardless if it's dragged or not.
And here's the problem... Some people are claiming that the tail's hitbox goes from a straight line, to a curved line, if the tail is dragged, and therefore it allows Xeno to make "trick shots".
And the video quality is so bad that it's difficult to see what is even going on. It's entirely possible there was a bit of latency, and the survivor wasn't even behind the bed when they got hit. Here's a screenshot from right before the survivor was hit. I think the blob I highlighted was the survivor, and if you match it with the previous screenshot I posted, the killer's screen might have shown the survivor as still to the right of the bed, and not behind the bed, when the attack connected.
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@UndeddJester said:
I'm sure I saw a video showing Xeno tail curving over the desk barricade in RPD (the one on the left when coming in the main entrance from the main exit gate past the guaranteed gen spawn). Even Deathslinger can't hit through that, so I'm pretty sure it's a thing.
That said, Xeno hasn't been in an unbugged state since launch. With the no speed drop on miss, Xeno was brutal to face, and I almost never escaped.
Now with the speed fixed AND nerfed, combined with the bad hitboxes on tail strike, Xeno is pretty weak, and I smoke them majority of games (or get close to escaping, which is a win cause I'm crap at survivor).
I'm greatly looking forward to the day when Xeno is fixed completely so I can finally play it/against it properly. I actually have a lot of fun either side, but Xeno is undeniably weak right now with its screwy hitbox.
Edit: This wasn't it, but is not a bad demonstration. The first hit could be done without, but the second is very questionable if you'd ever hit that without dropping over. I wish I could find the RPD one, cause that one blew my mind.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxuuCAKiSvIgSf0dKT0gMpHYRs5LZ-BAMu?si=E50P1CzgSIdMP-Pd
The 2nd hit wasn't even exciting. If you pause the video, you'll notice the highlighted hitbox line isn't going over the tall part of the structure, but instead was going over the bed, which is a way shorter object
