Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3852132#Comment_3852132
I don't think so, my friend.
In discussions like this one it is very important to consider the other side. People often complain about the flaws of the reveal mechanic for the killers, but the survivor side is rarely taken into consideration. And it needs to be.
Survivors are supposed to actually use the mechanic, it is the intended counterplay for both killers. It is also extremely frustrating when Ghostface manages to expose you when you were clearly looking at him, but you couldn't do the intended counterplay because the mechanic didn't work properly. The same doesn't happen as often with the Unknown, because his mechanic is actually a reliable source of counterplay, at least in my experience.
Things don't need to be the same as PTB Ghostface (which would be a one-sided take if it had been said), but the mechanic needs to work properly.
The problem is that with The Unknown, the killer side wasn't considered at all. The buffer isn't a buffer, and instead it's an extra extension.
- The way buffers are supposed to work, is if a survivor stares at the Unknown, stops staring briefly, then starts staring again, that the buffer will backfills the reveal time from when the survivor wasn't staring at the Unknown.
- But the way the buffer currently works, that if a survivor briefly sees The Unknown through a tiny hole in a wall, they get an extra 1.25 second reveal time bonus, even if they don't see The Unknown again within that 1.25 second buffer.
- And the time a survivor needs to stare at The Unknown in order to activate this buffer, is an extremely small period of time. It's not like survivors need to stare for a minimum of 1 second to enable the buffer. It's more like 0.25 seconds, or something so incredibly small, that I can get 100% reveal uptime by quickly flicking my camera towards and away from the Unknown once per second.
- Hitting a survivor with a UVX blast area, doesn't even fully reset the reveal timer, meaning that 3-hit UVX combos are unnecessarily difficult.
Suggestions:
- Survivors should need to stare at The Unknown for a minimum of 1 second, for the reveal buffer to enable.
- Hitting a survivor with a UVX blast area should fully reset the reveal timer.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851833#Comment_3851833
This maybe true for PC but on console it's actually harder to rid yourself of that. He's also not easy with blowing his snot at a good shot. But that's console vs PC we are very one directional with everyone like that.
I still think there should be a controller keybind for "instantly turn 180 degrees". God of War has a controller button combination for instant 180 degree turns, and I've wanted that feature in every console game I've played since then.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851833#Comment_3851833
I think "the 3 hit mechanic" for his m2 was his the most weakness just like for Nemesis, but at least with Nemi you have limited 3d health state, unlike Unknown
The 3 hit mechanic is massively undertuned, because the 2nd UVX hit only removes 6 seconds from the reveal timer, meaning that the time window to get 3 UVX hits in a row is super super super strict.
It's not fun to know that Unknown can play perfectly, and land every UVX perfectly, but still not get a 3-hit UVX combo because the reveal mechanic is way too survivor sided.
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@fussy said:
During last weeks I started to hear from my friends and A LOT of content creators who were attached to this character that he feels different now, after people realise how to play against him.
It was fun to read people put him in A tier on release, but I wonder how many people rate him way lower now than they did on release?
My opinion on him didn't change at all: he is very mid killer with ton of problems, his power is too clunky and unusable in half of the loops, it's really punishing to use on middle and long ranges (even if you hit it), infection timing is too short and it's too easy to remove for how much work you need to put to inflict it, his teleports exist only when survivors ignore them.
It's sad, because design wise Unknown easily is one of my favourite characters in the game, sometimes I play him only to listen his sounds.Unknown's biggest problem is that the "staring at the Unknown" mechanic doesn't actually require staring. Survivors can just quickly flick their camera towards the Unknown for very small periods of time, and they still get 100% non-stop revealing time, because the reveal buffer is super survivor sided. And if a survivor briefly sees the Unknown as it walks past a small hole in a wall, that still triggers the full reveal buffer's worth of time too.
This also means that the Unknown can't easily duck behind various objects while it is chasing a survivor, because the reveal buffer is so long that the survivor is still revealing the Unknown even when they can't see it.
The result is there is a lot of places where Unknown just can't use its UVX, because it can't realistically land a 2nd UVX shot before the survivor cleanses the 1st UVX.
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The hotfix might be taking a while, because some of the bugs are due to AI, and AI code can be difficult to fix.
For example, when the chase command is charged, the dog is only supposed to be in front of the killer if the dog is standing directly on the chase path. But as shown in the above picture, sometimes the dog stays in front of the killer even when the dog isn't on the chase path, which can cause issues when the chase command is executed because the dog isn't on the chase path.
The easiest way to fix this, is that when a chase command is charged, if there isn't enough room for the dog to be directly in front of the killer, then the dog should just move behind the killer. But since this involves AI code, it's not "that easy" to fix.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850921#Comment_3850921
I mean, in this magical hypothetical scenario you also have to have 4 survivors all running the perk for this to even be guaranteed (along with some pretty tight coordination). Otherwise random chance dictates that there's a much, much greater chance the one person who brought STB is already hooked in that case.
And if you have 4 copies of one perk on the survivor team and only one of those 4 even gets value, that sounds like a gigantic win for the killer already.
If you honestly think that stacking and daisy chaining STB really is a magical hypothetical scenario, then you should be ok if that part of STB gets nerfed. Because why bother defending that part of the perk from being nerfed, if you honestly don't think it is realistically going to happen?
Nerf suggestions:
- A specific survivor can only use STB, if they haven't had the perk used on them yet. (no daisy chaining)
- STB can only be used on a specific survivor, if they haven't used the perk on someone else yet. (no daisy chaining)
- STB can only be used on a specific survivor, if they haven't had the perk used on them yet. (no stacking)
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@Peppa_Pigsaw said:
I haven't really seen many people use it since the update launched so take this with a grain of salt but in every match where it DID get use it accomplished literally nothing at best and actively put the survivor team in a worse situation at worst. Shoulder the Burden is all fun and games until you get downed thanks to the exposed and then congrats, your team now has to protect you because you're on death hook.
In a super hyper coordinated team that can all loop pretty well, yeah I could see it being a problem. But that is a super hyper specific use scenario that I honestly don't think those groups would go for as they would likely rather load their perk builds with perks that don't require Seal Team 6 level coms in order to successful pull off to its maximum effectiveness.
TLDR Has the POTENTIAL to be really bad for you as a killer, but 9 times out of 10 won't be.It really doesn’t take that much skill or coordination for SWFs to do this. If a survivor is hooked, then one of the survivors (that hasn’t been hooked yet) just uses their voice comms to tell everyone else in the SWF they are going for the unhook.
That’s it. It’s really simple with voice comms.
And I have seen a lot of survivors use this perk, and I have seen a lot of survivors purposely stacking or daisy chaining this perk.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850385#Comment_3850385
It is though.
M1 killers are M2 killers just with an advantage.
M2 killers dont HAVE to hit you with M2. They can (and should) just zone you and hit you with M1 if you shoulder someone.
You can make the argument for nurse sure but this perk wont matter to her (if you are any good at her).Many M2 killers, like Huntress and Trickster, have zero extra mobility, and therefore can’t easily zone people into M1 hits.
Furthermore, it’s basically telling M2 killers that they’re better off ignoring their M2 power. And the M2 killers only have 40 seconds to get an M1, which often means the chase needs to be much faster than 40 seconds if the killer wasn’t heavily proxy camping, and therefore the killer needs to walk back to the hook to find the exposed survivor, before they can even start a chase. And since their killer is balanced around their M2 power, trying to win a chase that quickly with an M1 hit is often miserable.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850365#Comment_3850365
The two perks are not comparable at all.
Not mattering much against m2 killers….
You trying to say M2 killers are in some sort of disadvantage ?I'm saying the downside should feel impactful for all killers. But if an M2 killer like Huntress uses their power on an exposed survivor, it only takes off one health state. But if the downside was broken instead of exposed, then the downside would feel impactful against M2 killers.
This is supposed to be a high risk / high reward perk, but against M2 killers it's often just high reward.
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thanks for providing this perspective on the Thrill of the Hunt change! We've been sharing feedback on this with the team and can confirm that we have plans to address this perk in an upcoming hotfix. Stay tuned for details!
Is Shoulder The Burden getting addressed in an upcoming hotfix too? It's miserable when multiple people in the same game are stacking the perk on the same survivor, or are daisy chaining the perk (i.e. survivor B uses the perk on survivor A, then survivor C uses the perk on survivor B). And the perk inflicting exposed instead of broken, means the perk's downside is doesn't matter much against M2 killers because exposed doesn't work with M2 hits.
It feels like we had two problematic perks this chapter, but one of the perks got so many more complaints, that the other perk is getting completely ignored.
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I’m having so many games where multiple survivors have this perk, that I just won’t play killers that damage via M2 attacks, because they don’t 1-shot exposed survivors. This is a the first time in years that I’d rather play Deathslinger than Huntress.
At the very least, the downside of STB should be broken instead of exposed, so that M2 hits would work.
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Totems just need a grace period of 5 seconds, where if you stop cleansing or blessing them, the progress doesn’t immediately get reset to 0%.
This would allow screaming perks to exist, and not need to be nerfed, because survivors would scream, then be able to resume their full progress on the totem. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848222#Comment_3848222
You're kind of avoiding the question, though.
Does a team of survivors trying to stack StB on one survivor affect the killer when they chase literally anyone else?
The point is that it'll only work there if the killer's tunnelling, which is where it's supposed to work. All the killer has to do is not tunnel and they no longer have to deal with three extra hook states on one survivor.
The point is it widens the gap between solo q and SWF too much.
One of the biggest double standards on these forums, is many people will demand buffs for survivors to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF…. but these same people won't want nerfs to survivors even if they rarely would affect solo q, and would mostly only affect SWF.
Because really, removing STB stacking on the same survivor would rarely affect solo q at all, so it's fine. It's 99% targeting SWFs that are purposely having multiple people run this perk.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848169#Comment_3848169
Sure, but does it actually affect the killer at all?
It's not a problem for SWF to be able to do something if it doesn't actually affect the killer. Would it actually affect the killer for StB to be stacked on the same survivor like that?
If you honestly think that giving 3 extra hook states to a survivor wouldn’t affect a killer, then you should be 100% ok if the perk was nerfed to prevent the perk from being used on the same survivor multiple times.
Because why bother fighting against a nerf, if you don’t think it the nerf would affect the perk’s usefulness against killers?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848028#Comment_3848028
Why would that be a problem?
Wouldn't you only be affected by that as killer if you repeatedly chase and hook that one survivor they're using it on?
It widens the gap between solo q and SWF too much.
One of the biggest double standards on these forums, is many people will demand buffs for survivors to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF…. but these same people won't want nerfs to survivors even if they rarely would affect solo q, and would mostly only affect SWF.
Because really, removing STB stacking on the same survivor would rarely affect solo q at all, so it's fine. It's 99% targeting SWFs that are purposely having multiple people run this perk.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847692#Comment_3847692
Well fair point, though to play Devil's Advocate it's quite tricky to make a perk like this be useful in soloQ and not abusable by SWF.
The goal was to make a perk that allowed transfer of hook states. This at base is EXTREMELY strong, like Old Borrowed Time level strong. So how do you do it?
Well now you have basically 2 options: -
- You allow the full strength and potential of the hook trade ability and give it a huge downside/risk so that regardless of SoloQ or SWF the killer can really punish them hard (this is what BHVR opted for). Sadly this means SoloQ tends to get punished much harder than SWF.
- You stack a huge number of conditions on it similar to DS, so the perks impact is massively neutered and very situational. E.g. each player can only have a hook stage traded either way a single time. (2 possible total per survivor team).
The latter would be complained about just as much since it would massively nerf the potential of the perk, and for SoloQ again, likely would not really stop insistent tunneling... so BHVR went the former route.
I am a believer that a sufficiently skilled set of soloQ players can play like a SWF.
I know that SoloQ has a disadvantage, and that is a byproduct of the facts that information in DBD is very valuable, but players who exploit all the knowledge available to them can effectively play like SWF. Most people don't, but they can.
So to my mind, you can't make a perk with power such as this a foolproof perk that any goomba can use freely, cause then you get the Borrowed Time/Decisive Strike/Mettle of Man situations.
How you reign perks like this in is difficult, but they absolutely must be reigned in.
Option 3: Remove the ability for it to be used multiple times on the same survivor, which would affect SWFs much more than solo q, because SWFs are way more likely to purposely have multiple people running the perk so they can stack it on the same survivor.
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The dog pathing is almost unusable on Toba, where the dog just wants to get stuck on every weirdly shaped object on the map. And the pathing preview will show a path, but the dog gets stuck anyway.
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It feel like extra noises were added to the live chase music, just to make it even more difficult to hear survivors during a chase.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I called it, but nobody listened. You should never nerf his up close stalk, because it's the higher risk play (you're clearly seen as opposed to stealthing from afar), so you should get a higher reward. Not punish players for getting randomly put on an indoor map, or any map with crap that's in your way everywhere so you can't stalk.
If up close stalk is buffed, it should only be buffed if Myers isn't in a chase. Because it's definitely not higher risk when Myers is stalking during chase, especially when it's to charge up a tombstone.
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@TWS001 said:
I agree. It'll be a game thrower in solo queue and any decent swfs with good game sense won't need to use it. Maybe duos might find a use for it but that's it I reckon.
@buggybug said:
OP I have bad news for you, swfs who already know how to loop have no use for this garbage perk its going to be another blood rush geez.
If you honestly think SWFs won’t try to stack this perk, then it should be 100% fine if the perk was nerfed so that it can’t be stacked on the same survivor.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839177#Comment_3839177
Surely increasing the hit box of the killers m2 attack vertically slightly would be the obvious solution. It would not affect gameplay in any other way as long as they don’t do anything crazy.
This is correct. Blight’s lethal rush hitbox just needs to be extended vertically downward. That’s it.
And fixing Billy’s similar issue is literally just extending the hitbox of his chainsaw vertically downward.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838845#Comment_3838845
It's incredibly hard to tunnel in 2v8 and win. You won't get many Survs that way.
But like, why isn’t it based off of the number of survivors that got sacrificed, since that’s what actually matters, and because it’s actual anti-tunneling?
Because we saw tunneling in the last 2v8, where killers would just zoom across the map because the cage spawning rules were too predictable. Were the cage spawning rules changed to help fix the tunneling problem?
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@Mandy said:
Okay, I edited the Developer Update to reflect the correct numbers, it should be:
5% per gen completed and 2.5% for each cage state. Sorry about that.
If the gen speeds are connected to cage states instead of survivors eliminated, then it encourages killers to really try their hardest to tunnel survivors instead of spreading cage states.
For example, 9 cage states could mean that 3 survivors have been knocked out of the game, or it could mean 0 survivors have been knocked out of the game… but the killers get equal gen speed punishment for both these scenarios. -
@Atom7k said:
Since the last update I have the feeling that I'm way clunkyier then before.
I get stuck on tiles where I don't see any reason to get stuck and in my thousands of hours playing I can't remember getting stuck there like ever before.
I feel like survivors got a little bit faster which either means I meet more subtile cheater(which is an option) or my hitbox got somehow a litte bit bigger making me slower, bulkier and less maneuverable.
On top of that what is wrong with auto aim currently?
Half the time when somebody vaults a pallet into me and I am not in front of it my camera flicks to the pallet not hitting the survivor.
On top of that when chasing someone and another survivor is running to my right I somehow hit the survivor on the right without ever seeing him on my screen.
The one I wanted was right in front of me but all of a sudden I hear a scream behind me. How is that even possible?
Dbd never felt this clunky beforeThe game makes proximity checks that can forbid a killer from lunging, and it can yank the killer’s camera, and this is completely separate from the actual hit validation check. This means the game can forcibly yank the camera and then say the attack missed.
In the second scenario, the survivor to your right was probably so close that the proximity check forbid you from lunging at the survivor you were chasing, and the game also forcibly yanked your camera towards the survivor to your right.
Aim dressing has done this for a long time.
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@GeneralV said:
...Why do they choose the event queue?
So, I would like to promote a little discussion here and try to understand why this is happening during the last few days of the event.
This has genuinely caused me a distressing level of frustration. I was and still am really, really happy with this event and it has been the most fun I've had with DBD since the old days, but some of the players I've been paired with have really done their best to hurt the experience.
And unfortunately, this goes for both sides. I've seen killers who never crushed pumpkins or picked the haunts, and in my last games as killer I had a grand total of 2 survivors who interacted with the void.
This isn't fun. As survivor it just means I am the only one with the crystals available and the only one putting themselves in a dangerous situation. As killer, I'm forced to ignore some pumpkins and don't take the time to get the haunts otherwise I will lose the match.
But what I cannot understand is why players select the event queue if they will be playing regular DBD. It doesn't make sense.
Does anyone have any idea why this has been happening?
The nerfed haunts are garbage and aren’t worth the time it takes to get them. And killers don’t have time to do event stuff, unless they are clearly winning, and have extra time to spare.
This means that I’ll do event stuff in killer games when I’m clearly winning, but I’m ignoring the event stuff in killer games if the survivors are doing well. -
@sinkra said:
The stats show 2v8 had a 45% escape rate for the two most played classes and it felt much better for survivors. You rarely saw the level of dc'ing and giving up as in 1v4 because survivors could actually make a comeback. The matches also never felt over within the first 2 minutes like it so often does in 1v4. This is why so many survivors are asking for 2v8 to come back and want it to be permanent.
My point is if the devs want killer to be the power role, why such a massive advantage with the arbitrary 60/40 number. 55/45 arguably feels much better for both sides, not only for survivors but also for killers because with the 60% kill rate the games feel too easy for killer much of the time.
2v8 didn’t have as many ragequits because survivors can’t ragequit via 2v8 cages. This is why BHVR should remove survivors being able to ragequit via hooks.
If survivors want to ragequit, they should be required to actually DC, so they can get the penalty they deserve, and the other survivors can get a survivor bot replacement.
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- Fix Blight and Billy's hitbox, so that survivors aren't more difficult to hit when they are crouching.
- Remove both tombstone addons and the infinite tier 3 addon from Myers.
- Billy's curve window turning is unnecessarily difficult, and should be easier for all skill levels. We know from the existence of Blight, that BHVR can make a fast moving killer that is easy to control when they are moving at fast speeds. I shouldn't be required to move my mouse in 1 millimeter increments during Billy's curve window.
- Fix the problem with Hag, where survivors can run into a trap while looking in the other direction, so that Hag can't teleport-hit that survivor unless she has very specific -trap range addons.
- Fix Hag in general, because she has zero chase power if the survivor is in an area without traps, which encourages Hag to camp an area for the entire game, which is boring for everyone. For starters, her teleport range is way too short, and that alone encourages her to camp areas. And the update where everyone can erase traps without a flashlight, AND Hag doesn't get alerted when survivors do this, pretty much ruined the character. Yes, it's bad game design to have trap removal based on flashlights, but it's even worse when every survivor can erase traps in a way that doesn't alert Hag.
- Fix killers that have super loud walking sounds, so they aren't super loud walking sounds. No, it's not fun and immersive when a killer has loud stompy feet that I constantly hear almost the entire match.
- Unknown's "stare at the Unknown" mechanic should require the survivor to actually stare at the Unknown. Currently, the staring mechanic has a super long buffer, which is activated at an extremely small "looking at Unknown" time. This means the survivor can run forward, and quickly flick their camera to the Unknown for a short time, once per second, and they get 100% uptime on revealing. It also means that if the survivor sees the Unknown for an extremely small amount of time through a hole in a wall, they still get the entire reveal buffer's worth of time. The staring buffer should only happen if the survivor has been continuously staring at the Unknown for 1 second. And if that's too much, then make it 0.75 seconds. But currently, there's zero actual staring requirement, which is bad.
- Fix the Stridor bug where it gets 100% countered by Iron Will, because this unnecessarily nerfs Spirit.
- Spirits original directional phasing audio respected sound occlusion, and that was fine. But when the directional phasing audio was buffed so that it no longer respected sound occlusion, that was too much of a nerf.
- Fix the short m1 attack bug that can steal hits from the killer.
- Fix the sound bug that is causing grunts of pain and footsteps to be completely silent when the chase music is happening.
- Fix scratchmarks so they can appear on objects that lack collision.
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BHVR just needs to make all toolboxes have 16 or 18 charges, which would instantly fix this issue. Toolbox gen rushing is only an issue because 32 charge toolboxes get too much value when combined with other generator stuff like Hyperfocus and Streetwise.
…And if that's not enough then BNPs should be nerfed again.
But we don't need to nerf SWFs in this scenario, because the problem isn't that they are a SWF. The problem revolves around the 32 charge toolboxes and BNPs.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830801#Comment_3830801
I mean that's just a buff to slugging. Now slugging killers could get hook states for free without altering their playstyle.
How often are survivors being slugged for over 60 seconds, when their teammates could easily pick them off the ground?
And if 60 seconds isn’t longe enough, then make the timer longer. But there should be a point where the game can say “clearly the killer isn’t going to pick up the slugged survivor, and none of the other survivors are going to pick up the slugged survivor, so let’s just move them to a cage”
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830801#Comment_3830801
dude that’s trash lol
This suggestion stops killers from letting the 3rd survivor bleed out on the ground, when they try to slug for the 4k. The 3rd survivor would auto teleport to a 2v8 cage, and the 4th survivor actually has a chance to rescue them.
It also ends games earlier, when all the survivors are slugged, and none of them can pick themselves off the ground.
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If a survivor has been slugged for 60 seconds, then the game should automatically teleport them to a 2v8 hook.
- The slug timer is now 60 seconds
- If the slug timer reaches 0, teleport the survivor to a 2v8 hook
- If a survivor is hooked or caged, reset the slug timer to 60 seconds
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826815#Comment_3826815
Last time I checked, just holding the lunge button never was enough to make you go forward, you always had to move your character forward yourself. The long lunge animation is literally playing in the video. The short lunge duration looks different, when you tap the lunge button, that's a short lunge. I don't see the point of any of this. And none of this could cause the killer to miss unless the player is doing something wrong.
Are you referring to the start, where you're smacking the object on your right, and claiming it's the game stopping your lunge because of aim dressing/assist?
Yes. Lunges don’t have environmental object collision, so normally when you lunge at an object, you get the full lunge. The reason why those attacks were quickly hitting the environment is because the game forced the lunges to turn into a short m1 attacks.
Aim dressing is literally forbidding lunges due to proximity checks that are completely separate from hit validation checks. That is what is happening in the video. -
@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826734#Comment_3826734
No, because the game doesn't do that. First, you're swinging at the object on your right clearly, then you move, you're clearly too far away, the lunge animation plays, but you're standing still so you're not getting closer and therefore not getting the hit. Then you move closer, and the hit procs because you're close enough. There's nothing wrong happening in the video. I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to show me. Also I'm still looking forward to that example of a 360 stopping your lunge from happening.
Are you referring to the mild camera movement that happens when you're close to a survivor and swinging? Because that is called aim assist. It obviously has to activate BEFORE you get an actual hit. If you're not close enough you just won't get a hit.
The lunge animation wasn’t playing. The game was forbidding lunges from occurring, which is why the video showed short m1 attacks even though the mouse overlay showed the M1 button being held down.
And BHVR said there isn’t supposed to be aim assist in the game, and it’s supposed to be aim dressing. But it’s clearly functioning as an aim assist because it’s affecting attacks before hit validation occurs. -
@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826693#Comment_3826693
You were literally just standing too far, not moving forward when you were lunging. Do you expect the aim assist to just suck you onto the survivor? With the last swings you moved forward properly. And another thing, even if there was something wrong happening there, which there isn't, the Jake isn't even doing a 360…
I expect that the game shouldn’t be forbidding me to lunge, and it shouldn’t be yanking my camera, unless it has already confirmed a hit. In the above video, if the game was working correctly, it would have allowed me to make full lunges.
Can you at least admit that the game can forbid a killer from lunging, and then declare the attack missed the survivor?
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826496#Comment_3826496
So if the survivor is spinning more than once why not just back up and swing shortly after? I do this all the time someone attempts to spin me and it works 100% of the time unless I somehow make a mistake.
@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826580#Comment_3826580
360s don't steal hits from the killer… The killer just misses, it's what I've been trying to say the whole time. I haven't seen an example of a 360 stealing a hit the killer should have gotten, ever.
How do you explain what happened in the above video, where the game forced the lunges to turn into short m1 attacks, and forced the camera to move, but didn't give the killer a hit?
The game can clearly do things to a killer's attack and camera, before the hit validation check is made.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826487#Comment_3826487
You can avoid getting 360'd by hitting the survivor.
Or BHVR could actually fix aim dressing so it's not stealing hits from the killer.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826436#Comment_3826436
Can't you just stand still to avoid getting 360d?
No. Sometimes survivors will 360 more than once, and sometimes the killer doesn't notice the 360 has started until after they started holding down the M1 button. Also, the bug doesn't always trigger, so the killer is usually better off just going for the hit and risking the bug.
Because as I said before, if a 360 isn't triggering an aim dressing bug, then it should never work on a mouse user with a decent DPI, because the killer spinning their camera would hit the survivor even if the killer had no idea which direction the survivor was.
The proper solution would be for aim dressing to wait for a positive hit validation before altering a killer's attack or camera.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo_gkU_HnQI@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826408#Comment_3826408
No, you can't lunge if you're next to a survivor, because the hit will connect then… You're trying to say so hard that it's the games fault if you miss a 360… I'd like to see even one example of this happening, because I haven't seen this happen once during my 4k hours of playtime.
Here's a video, with a mouse and keyboard overlay, that proves the proximity checks are separate from the hit validation checks. Notice the game forbids the killer from lunging, and the game yanks the killer's camera, but then doesn't give the killer the hit.
@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825960#Comment_3825960
So if I end up BEHIND the killer at the end of my 360, does that mean that the killer should have achieved that hit?There is a difference between a 360 and a whiff due to aim dressing, the latter if which, to my understanding, CANNOT be achieved consistently. Otherwise you would be seeing matches where the killer is unable to get a single hit ALL match.
If you 360 behind a survivor, and it didn't trigger the aim dressing bug, then the killer should have been able to easily hit the hit by quickly spinning their camera in a 360 motion while the lunge is happening, because the game would have stopped the lunge and the camera movement when the survivor got in front of the camera.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826319#Comment_3826319
Listen I have no idea where you've gotten this from, but 360s never were, and currently aren't, an exploit. They never stopped you from lunging, the quick turning just made killers miss because they couldn't aim their lunge correctly. And no. There's no such thing as a proximity check causing you to miss. If the survivor isn't right next to you, you'd need to hold the lunge button and go forwards, until you're close enough for the hit to proc. What you just described, does not happen with 360s, ever. If you miss against a 360 that was/is always on you, not on the game.
What made people miss against 360s, and still do, is the survivor spinning out of killers field of view. Not some technical issue with the lunge mechanic.
There is a proximity check that can forbid a killer from lunging, and then a hit validation check that can say the killer was too far away for a short m1 attack. That is how 360s can steal hits from the killer.
You literally can't lunge at a survivor if you're next to them, and facing them. And my main theory is the proximity checks are done on the killer's client, and then the hit validations are done on the server side, so the game can forbid a lunge when the killer's client thinks the survivor is too close, when in reality the survivor is a bit farther away on the server side. The movement of a 360 can mess up aim dressing, because it is quickly weaving in and out of the forbidden lunge range.
The actual problem is the aim dressing mechanic is functionally an auto aim, because it changes an attack before the hit validation check. If aim dressing functioned as an actual aim dressing mechanic, it would validate a hit before changing an attack.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826296#Comment_3826296
Yes, if you're right next to a survivor this happens. The hit connects automatically since you're right next to them, and you're aiming correctly.
The 360 exploit works on the same idea, where the proximity check thinks the survivor is “too close” for a lunge, so the game either forbids the killer to lunge, or forces the lunge to end early.
The whole idea of the 360 exploit, is the survivor briefly goes into the “too close for a lunge to be allowed” range, but then quickly goes out of the short M1 attack range. This causes the proximity check to forbid a lunge, then causes the short M1 attack to miss.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826247#Comment_3826247
I've played this game since 2018 and it hasn't happened to me once, and as far as I know, the aim-assist system is still completely the same (I'm on PC so I've actually disabled it through the .ini file but I used to play on the PS4), as before. I don't recall 360ing causing the lunge to be ######### up even once. I do recall some killers making the mistake of not holding the lunge, as the survivor spun.
This meant that the whiff got just close enough for the auto-aim to slightly direct your whiff, but you just weren't close enough to hit. These incidents were 100% a skill issue. You needed to hold the lunge and push forward into the 360, unless you were right up their ass.
You can literally just stand in front of a hooked survivor, hold down the attack button, and notice you’re forbidden to lunge, and a short M1 attack happens instead.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825960#Comment_3825960
You're implying that the aim assist is supposed to 100% lock on to the survivor, like aiming in GTA V multiplayer. That's not the case. And if spinning to avoid a hit, and making it harder to get a hit as killer isn't presenting the opportunity for more skill expression, or a higher skill ceiling, then what is it? It's not like the game will 360 for you, and 360s were never uncounterable, even on consoles.
No. I’m implying that aim dressing makes proximity checks that are completely separate from the actual hit validation checks, and when survivors 360, it tricks the proximity checks into thinking the survivor is “too close”, which forbids the killer from making a lunge… but then when the actual hit validation check happens the game says the killer missed because the survivor was too far away for a short m1 attack.
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I hope the Demo change involves fixing his hitbox, so that he doesn’t miss M2 attacks when survivors crouch.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825968#Comment_3825968
The latest stats already showed the gap between solo q and SWF is super low the vast majority of the time. Survivors don’t need anything else to bridge the gap.
stats don’t tell the whole story and shouldnt solely be relied on. Thankfully the Devs are aware about this and have acknowledged this pretty much any time they show stats.
Imo survs need at least some comm pings - eg a Wheel with predefined messages (‚i am going for unhook‘, ‚need help‘, …) to Bridge the gap as good as can be. There will always be a gap whatsoever.
Fortunately, the devs also directly told us that info currently isn’t the main reason for the gap, and the main reason is the fact the solo q survivors don’t work together as much.
Which means that addressing the gap should involve ways to encourage survivors to work together, that don’t involve giving them more information.
Or it means discouraging survivors from using anti-teamwork strategies. Some survivors commit to an anti-teamwork strategy before the game has started, and that is a problem. For example, if a survivor picks wake up + sole survivor, and their game strategy is to wait for everyone else to die…that should be considered sandbagging their teammates, and should be reportable.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825771#Comment_3825771
Maybe there really isnt anything more killers need to track in HUD apart from this.
Maybe there isn’t anything survivors need added to their HUD either then. The latest stats already showed the gap between solo q and SWF is super low the vast majority of the time. Survivors don’t need anything else to bridge the gap.
Also, there are other UI related things killers could get. For example, Dracula shouldn’t have 2 keybind for 3 forms, because it’s just unnecessary confusing. There should be 3 keybinds, so each form can consistently have the same keybind. Or just give him the Vecna spell wheel, so each form can consistently have the same button inputs.
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@VantaNite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825723#Comment_3825723
Distortion will be getting buffed again in the future. They've caused too many issues and ruined alot of balancing issues with such a strong nerf and no viable counters.
Distortion will still be chase oriented with the newest change.
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I just want the teleport cooldown to be much longer if the teleport is cancelled, because it’s super annoying when this killer spams 99% teleports on cooldown.
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360s are just exploiting the aim assist bug that can steal hits from the killer. It’s not skill expression, it’s literally a game bug.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825751#Comment_3825751
i dont think that would be the case or that would be a problem if that would happen.
i feel like killer dont really need HUD to track a lot of things for them like survivors lacking comms do. Although there need to be limits too, because comms arent as consistent as directly showing info.
I think it's disappointing that people can think of a giant laundry list of HUD improvements for survivors, but with killers it's "meh, they don't really need anything" or "let's just give them a hook counter, because it's such a minor thing that it's not really meaningful or impactful".
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825718#Comment_3825718
I think if I have to use pen and paper or really pay attention to something that can be avoided by simply playing more sweaty, it should be simply added to HUD.
I genuinely never experience issues with tracking hooks when I play to tunnel. Right away, on 5 gens, on 1st hook, till victory. See the goal, see no obstacles.
I do however run into issues when Im playing casually in a chill way and survivors get a win simply because I allowed myself weakness of spreading hooks and now I dont remember which one of them is dead on hook and which one will be 2nd stage, making me lose the game for committing to a chase that doesnt give me a kill at the time when I should've had a kill like 2 minutes ago already
The problem with adding hook counters to the HUD, is BHVR might give survivors actual new content on their HUDs, then give killers just the hook counter on their HUD, and call it even.