Cixon
Cixon
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@Loey said:
let's be honest, they won't do anything against the camp and tun. The hooked survivor has two options, or he kills himself (who still loses pips, time and BP) or stays there giving others time to make some gene so then the killer hooks another survivor and does the same "strategy". Because now you cannot give dc if they are camping or tunneling you.
You think that's fun? If you think it's fun for a survivor to bend over for the killer because the killer doesn't choose to defend gens but instead the survivor's hook then that right there shows how bad hook camping really is.
That's like if survivors were to body block a hook EVERY time you try to hook a survivor. That's not fun at all for the killer and that's not apart of the game and only hinders the survivors to escape because no one is doing generators.
They should do gens and help their friends so they can heal and do gens together. Likewise for killers, don't taint the game-play for survivors by facecamping / hook camping. I get it's a tactic for some killers but do u really need to be within this range for more than 15 seconds?
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Updated the main post to be more detailed.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1088688#Comment_1088688
The game doesnโt promote camping? The wraith is completely invisible when standing still, the perk Insidious exists, there are 0 terror radius killers in this game. Ambushing two survivors (one being injuried as they just got unhook) is very beneficial to the killer. Camping is a tactic in the killers arsenal. The only thing I could consider toxic is face camping, which is literally just standing right against the hooked survivor. I donโt camp a hook all game but if I noticed a team of survivors who rush hook saves..I might not stray far as a 32 meter killer, and if I am a stealth killer you bet Iโm gonna be nearby to punish the foolish survivor who thought the hook was safe. Itโs quite the statement to claim that everyone knows camping is wrong, I would respectful disagree. Face camping however.. I can agree with that style of camping.
I agree but hook camping shouldn't be no more closer than 15 meters like the reference photo.
I admit to hook camping but it's never as close as the reference photo. I play pig and run discordance, make your choice, save the best for last and bbq and chili. I kinda have to be fairly away from hooks to utilize make your choice and it's honestly not that bad. For a rank 9 killer, I can easily get 2 kills and even 3 at time.
But when I play with my friends and see killers take hard advantage of hook camping at close proximity...it's a problem I know most will agree. Though, most of the replies in this thread is just killers complaining as usual, they don't understand that they can just step outside the radius briefly then return to it.
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@Ghost077 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092134#Comment_1092134
If do something like that, then only complete with a genrush nerf. Clarify: only complete with a SERIOUS genrush nerf. After nerf ruin playing for survivors ridiculously easy. If I call my skilled friends to SWF, we will beat almost any killer now. Naturally, killers began to camp and tunnel more. This is the only thing that remains for them in such unequal conditions. This one-sided nerfs will lead to the fact that many killers will quit the game, and playing against the rest will become boring.
>I'm not a dev but I know for a fact that this would be the most solid solution
You know for a fact, huh? Can you honestly answer how many hours you have in this game?
I have 300+ hours on steam and sit at red ranks.
Also, of course it's 'one-sided' because it's suppose to back off face campers, what else is it suppose to do?
Also, all killers have to do is leave the radius briefly and go back and repeat so it's already exploitable for the killers perspective to not get hindered with slowness.
Also a gen-rushing nerf sounds like the most brain dead idea ever. How bout killers use perks like discordance, pop, thanatophobia, BBQ and chili, new HEX:Ruin, and a plethora of other perks that combat gen rushing.
There's no perks that can combat facecamping especially in a basement and all killers know this for a fact. U just gain bloodlust and down them again and slug their friends and then the killer now has the gamer chamber filled up easily.
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1091870#Comment_1091870
Or; and this is just a random thought; maybe altruisitic Survivors shouldn't feel entitled to easy unhooking points and just do their gens...? Even if it means their 'friend' dies or has to drop to struggle phase (which many Survivors find just appalling apparently)...?
Again... the game too heavily rewards cat-and-mouse altruistic gameplay already. Any 'punishments' for a killer securing their kill by staying near their hooked victim is just a blatant nerf/unneeded punishment to killers from Survivor players that feel they shouldn't be able to die unless they get to be unhooked several times first.
@KingFrost said:
Or; and this is just arandom thought; maybe killers shouldn't feel entitled to an easy kill and just hunt survivors?
Both of you have valid points but two wrongs don't make a right. Tunneling survivors is fine if it means you get rid of a survivor that has been playing 'dirty' most of the game but camping a hook super close for more than 15 seconds is absolutely unnecessary and I don't care if your excuse is that survivors are desperate for altruism points but that's not valid. If it's a SWF situation and they're new to the game, this is a experience you'd want to have avoided for them. It's toxic that killers even do that and proves how unskilled they are.
You can argue all the perks you want to deflect a face camping or proxy camping killer but the reality is is that not all survivors are gonna run decisive strike or borrowed time and coupled with insta downers like Hillbilly and Leather face, they both benefit the most off facecamping / proxy camping and it's truly disgusting.
If killers want to secure hook kills more often how bout you play as trapper or hag or some killer that can place traps throughout the environment?
All it does is ruin the experience for new players and returning players. A slow buff such as this would be an almost perfect solution especially if it's basement hook camping. If not, something similar would suffice. I'm not a dev but I know for a fact that this would be the most solid solution and that's slowing the killer down to a almost unbearable speed.
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@Huntar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1090741#Comment_1090741
Dig through Peanits' comment history. He's said it a few times that I've seen. I'm afraid I don't care enough about an idea that won't be implemented to do the digging for you.
Never know, figured I'd suggest it since face camping is pretty bad and killers defend it.
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@Huntar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1090722#Comment_1090722
See what? The closed session testing that devs do?
Concrete evidence, a video, wiki, dev notes, etc.
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@Huntar said:
Devs tried something like this, survivors abused it. This is the issue with all the "easy" fixes that people suggest.
May I see it? Am interested.
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@WTBacon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1089007#Comment_1089007
You should look up Bloodlust before using that as an argument.
Bloodlust gives a maximum speed bonus of 15% at 45 seconds. You get 5% for every 15 seconds in chase without breaking a pallet or attacking.
You just suggested something that slows you just for standing near a hook, up to 45% slow.
Even if we consider Bloodlust this slowdown is ludicrous.
How many times do I need to reiterate this, this applies to hooked survivors not regular hooks.
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@Ghost077 said:
I have a wonderful idea too. The surviving camping gen penalty! I'd pitch my idea to counter a common epidemic in dead by daylight and that's GEN camping. As we know, many survivors do this including myself time to time but I also like to cross play both survivor and killer and I find horrible for this to be allowed. Sure, survivors that gen camp give the other survivors a lead in completing objectives but that's doesn't make it right as what do you think the survivor will do to the other killers once they done gen? Right.
If survivor return to gen, which stopped repairing earlier than after 15 sec, he receives status "genunlust" effect. This slows him down by -9% and lasts 15 seconds.ย Stacks up to -45% every 10 seconds if within this gen radius. If he touches gen, the penalty is doubled.
Have some class.
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@WTBacon said:
This idea is terrible.
Survivor stays near hook and forces you to camp it, then saves the hooked survivor while using Borrowed Time.
You are now moving at 70% speed (assuming you are a 115% killer) and can do literally nothing.
The survivor who did the unhook cannot be caught, the survivor who has been unhooked cannot be harmed, and the two other survivors have been doing gens this entire time and you are moving so slow you can't stop them.
There is no possible way this idea can make people upset.
you would be moving at that speed if you don't initiate a chase.
or if you don't leave the area. that's assuming you stayed for a whole 60 seconds within the radius.
@SkeletalElite said:
While good in theory, your idea has a few major flaws and I think this is a punishment in the wrong way.
A rage camper will camp anyways, regardless of slowdown, to the same effect.
Additionally as you have it now, this can be abused by survivors to get the killer to be slowed down.
I don't understand what's up with this being abused. You guys know bloodlust exists..right? I'm sure BHVR would have a more in-depth idea as to how this would work but it's not that deep. Just a rough idea for the board.
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@Flatskull said:
Bad idea.
Every 15 seconds is silly, maybe it's feasible if the radius around it was very, vey small. Like 5 meters.
This is how it will be exploited. All survivors will huddle around the hook and hide and because I'm not an idiot and going to leave an idea area where I can see survivors running about, looping or sneaking around they're going to giggle to themselves knowing that if I don't immediately leave the area I'm going to be too slow to get them. This effectively turns the hook into an safe zone with a long lasting negative affect onto myself because I refuse to simply give people unhooks.
It would need to be a smaller radius. The slowing affect would have to be right out. It should be like if I stay within the radius for 30 seconds one of my perks deactivate for 60 seconds...OR...my view is narrowed by a certain amount which makes it harder for me to find survivors and keep up with chases.
It would also need to deactivate and pause when I have a visual on an unhooked survivor for a certain amount of time.
I do think that a radius around the hoo kthat implements a negative is a good idea itself. But I don't agree with this implementation. I'd also like a survivor to get negative for staying in a radius around the killer-never ending loop fest or starting lovingly behind a pallet- movement should be encouraged but not at the cost of slower movement itself.
Forgot to mention, but there's also bloodlust that gives you haste. I'm sorry but there's really not a lot of room for this argument. Also, they can't abuse their hooked teammate to save time cause if there's 1 person running you around the radius and one on the hook, what the hell is the other 2 people doing? It doesn't make sense in anyway at all.
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@Flatskull said:
Bad idea.
Every 15 seconds is silly, maybe it's feasible if the radius around it was very, vey small. Like 5 meters.
This is how it will be exploited. All survivors will huddle around the hook and hide and because I'm not an idiot and going to leave an idea area where I can see survivors running about, looping or sneaking around they're going to giggle to themselves knowing that if I don't immediately leave the area I'm going to be too slow to get them. This effectively turns the hook into an safe zone with a long lasting negative affect onto myself because I refuse to simply give people unhooks.
It would need to be a smaller radius. The slowing affect would have to be right out. It should be like if I stay within the radius for 30 seconds one of my perks deactivate for 60 seconds...OR...my view is narrowed by a certain amount which makes it harder for me to find survivors and keep up with chases.
It would also need to deactivate and pause when I have a visual on an unhooked survivor for a certain amount of time.
I do think that a radius around the hoo kthat implements a negative is a good idea itself. But I don't agree with this implementation. I'd also like a survivor to get negative for staying in a radius around the killer-never ending loop fest or starting lovingly behind a pallet- movement should be encouraged but not at the cost of slower movement itself.
I love the idea of a narrowed view but I don't see this beneficial for basement hook camping scenarios especially for experienced killers who know the ins and outs of pretty much every map layout..not to mention, it would be really hard for survivors to tell the difference anyways.
A safe zone is a nice gesture but isn't at all what it is. This doesn't give free hooks either as there's plenty of killer perks such as make your choice, devour hope and etc that can provide benefits from hooked survivors at certain distances and I mean...look at how small 15 meters is.
15 second countdown starts after hook animation and if you aren't out within the radius by then, you recieve -9% speed and this stacks every 10 seconds within the radius up to the maximum of -45% movement speed.
Look at reference photo in main post. You really think 15 meters is too much?
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@VoodooChild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1088822#Comment_1088822
Man reading this ######### let me know it hit the nail on the head lol. "Youre a camping killer, this cant be exploited!!! name one way!!"
Even tho I already said I barely played killer for the last few months and told you exactly how I would exploit it. But more importantly, youre arguing that it cant be exploited and not how it would at all stop or even punish camping.
So if youre not just trying to spit on top of the pile of killer nerfs than im just genuinely confused as to what youre even trying to accomplish lol.
ALSO funny that you called me a camping killer because ive been thinking that if I do play killer I should face camp with a chainsaw lol. You know what "Lackluster" (Great name at least btw) would do to stop me? Not a god thing
If you read what I put below the title you'd know what I'm trying to accomplish lol.
Leather-faces that go insidious are easy with this penalty especially with decisive strike which I have. Just bait a chainsaw rev and his slowness debuff couldn't hurt a fly. Coupled with borrowed time and you're good. All gens done and everyone out unless it's a basement hook then that will take more skill for some.
Anyways, point proven...you can't outrun a killer with bloodlust within a 15 meter radius of a hooked survivor as that would just cancel the debuff out. I don't even understand the argument you're trying to reach but perhaps you should look into other games?
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@VoodooChild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1088761#Comment_1088761
Oh yeah people def got over that lol, its not like a lot of people just said ######### playing killer. I had already said ######### high ranks but after I started getting matched with red SWF while im yellow AND theres no ruin, yeah not my idea of fun lol. But that right there tells me, you have a survivor bias. You only want this to spite killers. Im telling YOU that it would be a much smarter idea to at least come up with something that would work against camping. Your idea ONLY has value as being something exploitable to killers who aren't face camping. You can be anti killer and still fix problems
Its almost like you admitted that the idea is just to piss people off, how can you come up with any solution to camping and then be like "Well it wont work on leatherfaces" like yeah its not going to work on LF its not going to work on clown because someone is camping you they aren't moving that's the whole point lol
AND btw the crows for afk survivors are to benefit the other survivors, obviously if you have crows youre not hurting the killer lol. Ive never heard someone speak about this in a negative light
The crows is a great idea, I love it I was simply referencing it as a core mechanic in the game such as this idea for hook campers. Also, not everything is beneficial to every party. Ever since moris were added, that was a core mechanic that survivors have to deal with and it's not positive by any means for survivors but it's apart of the game and most may not like it but it is what it is.
But the fact that you accused me of adding this idea for the ideology of exploiting it is nonsense and proves that you're basis to the agenda in support of hook camping.
How could survivors exploit this idea?
Killer: Hooks survivor, looks around for survivor in area, finds one:
Survivor: Loops killer around a 15 meter radius?
It not exploitable by anymeans. If you engage in a chase for I believe 1 minute or so, you gain speed for bloodlust and there's barely a pallet around a hook depending on the area so there's no benefit for exploits. You would simply get tunneled by the killer or be a terrible teammate by standing around your hooked teammate when you could have led the killer away from the hook so someone else could get them.
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@PacifiedByDaylight said:
Oh, would be bad if that hook is near 3 last gens or all survivors swarm near it ๐
That would only mean that the survivors 3 gen themselves which is good for the killer, actually. Allowing all survivors to munch up together then spread out. Also, one hook isnt gonna cover 3 gens in a 15 meter radius...that's impossible.
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@VoodooChild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1088688#Comment_1088688
Well as a survivor main whos only a survivor main because I like the game and killer sucks, ive never been camped like that. If youre camping youre face camping and tbh I barely see that outside the end of the game where yeah that's what youre supposed to do
Youre talking about proxy camping and #########, man you know what im going to do? Run around as close to the hook person as possible, double points if I have borrowed time which I probably will. Oh im sorry is that toxic and abusive just like camping? Well its a good thing dbd has so many toxic killers (Which is apparent from how apparently everyone not as luck as me is camped every game) and not a single toxic survivor.
Like I get where youre coming from but the solution to fixing "core" gameplay is looking at the survivor side, because lets be 110% clear if youre getting face camped its probably because the killer is mad. Maybe you were being toxic, maybe you were being optimal, maybe this game is just kind of bullshit but the point here is that while you may JUST want to get rid of this in game punishment your solution would just create another abusable machinic for the side that's already brain dead easy to win....unless you get face camped. Wild guess, maybe youre not getting face camped so much but when you lose its normally from face camping? Again coming from a survivor main I understand, I rarely lose unless its camping or tunneling, you know bullshit. Maybe that's actual problem
Making people upset can only go so far, then people will get over it like the whole Hex:Ruin situation. People can face camp all they want but that status effect is gonna add up pretty badly with -45% speed for 15 seconds allowing survivors to unhook their reliable teammate easily and get fair distance. This won't always work for killers like Leatherface, Hillbilly and Spirit but it will be a good change for the most part.
We have penalties for AFK survivors with the crows so this would be another added penalty but for hook camping killers.
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@VoodooChild said:
That would piss people off again, ANOTHER killer nerf but more importantly wont make survivor mains happy because it doesn't matter lol. If youre camping the hook youre not camping it from 15 meters away youre doing it right in their face. If anything it encourages you to face camp instead of patrolling a small area because if you "Proxy camp" you wont be able to catch anyone. I haven't played killer in like a month, haven't played dbd in a few weeks, theres definitely something wrong with the game but I dont think its "proxy camping"
I wouldn't call it a nerf and only a small majority of players that depend on camping would be upset to the change. It's a re-balance to the game, not a nerf. The game doesn't promote camping and everyone knows it's wrong.
Most generators are outside a 15 meter radius of a hook regardless so killers can still 'proxy camp' if they choose to but they are taking a risk when a survivor is hooked.. You also have to consider bloodlust when engaging in chases which boosts your speed when in long chases and the penalty status effect lacklust only applies when a survivor is hooked.
On a survivors perspective, this would be a very good move on BHVR if added because it allows survivors to have more fun then to deal with toxic killers that depend on hook camping or targeting one's pip.
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@Prex91 said:
Maybe can be a nice idea if tested. Also revolving big maps and gen rush and the game itself will be way better.
I agree to a certain degree. Big maps for killers are usually problematic depending on the killer but provide roughly the same amount of pallets but small maps seemingly provide more pallets but shorter gen distances...there definitely needs to be a map re-arrangement for distances of pallets and generators.
In the mean time I believe the game needs to start with fixing issues like HOOK camping and core game-play first before anything changes environmentally.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/952646#Comment_952646
"Killers wait out DS most of the time anyways so what's the really the difference here?"
The difference is that Killers who don't immediately tunnel the person on death hook are put in a really awful situation if the person has DS. Either they give the person a near-guaranteed extra health state or they make that person unhookable for a solid minute after being downed. That is a HUGE upgrade and close to the previous DS which they moved away from for a good reason.
"Just because the timer starts when that survivor is downed on their last hook?"
Yes, literally just because that. It gives that person a huge timer boost for NOT being tunneled, which is the opposite of what the devs want with this game.
"People learn from patch notes and take it with them when they queue. Not hard to play a slightly new meta to a asymmetrical game."
Tell me how the Killer adapts without having to start bringing in OP Moris. The one idea you suggested, trying to slug all 4 players before everyone is on death hook, both punishes the Killer emblem badly and gets annihilated by Unbreakable.
"The quarter sliced skill-check may not be the best trade-off to some but it certainly beats the current state of DS in which killers wait out timer to then eventually, successfully hook you asย theirย trade-off."
The Killer is not even favored in the situation you are describing unless the timer is close to running out when downed. The Killer would still have to give Survivors a chance to pick up their fallen mate. Your idea raises the chances of that by an immense amount, bringing the perk WAY closer to the free health state the perk is NOT supposed to be.
"Most of the men/women in this forum are killers mains trying to keep the currentย loopholeย for killers that is DS so they have a fairly broken upper-hand inย dead by daylight."
And you're trying to turn DS into an overpowered and undisputed strongest perk in the entire game, bar none. Your idea punishes the Killer hardcore for not wanting to proc DS. That is very bad. At least with old DS, only one person had that luxury. Here, EVERY survivor with DS gets that potential benefit.
"The fact that Decisive Strike doesn't have a defense against killers idling the timer is just absurd."
That is BY DESIGN. So that Survivors do not get a free health state. They changed the old DS for this exact reason. Are you suggesting that the Killer has to play into DS every time someone brings it in?
"That's really the onlyย BIGย change and if you think about it, it's not that significant if you take all the other killer perks I mentioned into account to defend against this."
No. It is insanely significant. The only thing that meaningfully defends against it is a Mori.
"The rework would only slightly challenge your skills as a killer and in the end, make you a better player. Just because it hinders you a bit more than usual, doesn't make it impossible to secure a kill."
I do not agree at all. It gives a massive boost to a Survivor who holds on to it that makes it either an extra health state or an extra hook state. That is horridly unbalanced.
I'll put it to you like this. If you can convince me that having to leave someone on the floor for a solid minute after downing them no matter how long it took for them to go down to avoid giving them a free health state is a reasonable thing, I will wholeheartedly stand behind your idea.
I don't have to convince anyone but survivors. Killers are never gonna like this new build of Decisive Strike because it hinders them which is the point for almost every survivor perk.
Also I may add, a solid minute isn't so bad considering you aren't just standing there watching the downed survivor. Also I should mention that the timer would run out if the survivor got healed into a injured state. YOU can get a couple things done until then. It barely takes a minute to heal someone into a injured state not including med-kits.
With all things considered, this does technically give someone a 'free health state' with the exception they land the skill-check.
A couple of scenarios I can see this being problematic for KILLERS:
- Survivor keeps last DS to clutch end-game hatch escape.
- SWF survivors use it to get time to finish last couple gens or power exit gates.
- Use it alongside Jane's head-on perk then use it to force DS from locker. (which should be patched. don't like forcing DS from locker.)
Scenarios to benefit survivors:
- Insidious basement face-camper to escape.
- Looping killer almost whole game on last hook to get sweet DS to then escape.
- Killer purposely avoids you until timer runs in fear of DS, crawl to safety to get picked up.
The proposal is final until further notice. Maybe if someone want's to put their 2 cents in to make it operate the same but with less controversy amongst killer mains but the way I see it, that's how it will always be. Survivors complain about everything too but that's just the way it is.
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@Snitz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944732#Comment_944732
I don't think making it last an infinite amount of time is a good idea, since 60 seconds is already enough for survivors to just play dumb because the know they can DS, plus lockers.
Everything else I agree with.
I agree but infinite is really broken. Just look at main post for my proposal. More balanced in my opinion.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/115346/updated-decisive-strike-rework
I dont really get how this works, you enter the dying state before your first hook
Basically it's Decisive strike as usual but it makes a timer exception for your last hook if you haven't already used the Decisive strike for the whole trail. When you're unhooked off your last hook, the timer doesn't start until the killer downs you into dying for the last time. THAT is when the 60 seconds starts to almost insure a successful DS unless you miss the harder skill check.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/950616#Comment_950616
I do not agree in the slightest. This is a big boost for DS in exchange for a slightly harder difficulty.
I mean that the Killer has to leave every Survivor on death hook slugged for a whole minute to avoid proccing DS because the timer does not start until they are downed, regardless of whether or not you tunnel them. Does that sound remotely reasonable to you?
Killers wait out DS most of the time anyways so what's the really the difference here?
Just because the timer starts when that survivor is downed on their last hook? People learn from patch notes and take it with them when they queue. Not hard to play a slightly new meta to a asymmetrical game.
The quarter sliced skill-check may not be the best trade-off to some but it certainly beats the current state of DS in which killers wait out timer to then eventually, successfully hook you as their trade-off. You have to understand the struggle for both parties here and if you can't accept a small game change to a perk not everyone is gonna have, then you're at a disadvantage in understanding how survivors work. We already talked about SWF and the premise of that in which all I have to say is predict if they're SWF or git gud.
Most of the men/women in this forum are killers mains trying to keep the current loophole for killers that is DS so they have a fairly broken upper-hand in dead by daylight. Which is really one of the most unbalanced things I've seen. The fact that Decisive Strike doesn't have a defense against killers idling the timer is just absurd. With this new rework, you can still idle the timer like always can but you'll have to do it even longer for the survivor's last hook as it doesn't activate till downed to dying state and you can have this survivor on the ground on their last hook at any time of the game, that being start-game, mid, or end.
That's really the only BIG change and if you think about it, it's not that significant if you take all the other killer perks I mentioned into account to defend against this.
I understand where you're coming from but you can't JUST view this rework as only a disadvantage to your small agenda. Survivors has 4 tasks roughly depending on the survivor while killers have 3.
Survivors should help others (heal, body-block, flashlight save), Do generators, Avoid/Loop killer, and power exit gates and this all will change depending on what killer it is and how they play to help prioritize whats more important.
Killers only have 3 tasks: Hunt Survivors (Chase/Find), Hook them, Kick generators and maybe defend totems which is a different subject for a different thread.
There's not much that killers have to do and this accounts for 4 survivors with all of them a slightly different or drastic play-style. The killer perks you guys have now is pretty fair for this new Decisive Strike rework and I 100% believe you guys will do just fine in the fog.
The rework would only slightly challenge your skills as a killer and in the end, make you a better player. Just because it hinders you a bit more than usual, doesn't make it impossible to secure a kill.
This will be my final conclusion. If killers want to provide their feedback, they may. Just be sure it is a debatable argument with a valid point made that hasn't already been discussed or they'll be ignored. Simp.
turn at this thread for survivor/killer balancing instead:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/115438/why-the-complain/p1
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/948935#Comment_948935
So your new idea is "saving DS until last hook gives you either a free health state or a full seconds of being unable to be hooked once you are downed no matter what".
Sorry, but no. At this point, that is basically making it so you either all but force DS to proc or force the killer to play horrendously suboptimally to play around it (because not knowing who has DS means that if you don't want to proc it, you have to leave someone on death hook slugged for 60 seconds every time you see the Obsession icon, barring you using Obsession perks/add-ons yourself). A slightly more difficult Skill Check is not close to a fair trade off to that.
The difficult skill check is a perfect trade-off to make it fair for both parties. It literally takes a quarter off the landing point.
Also what do you mean sub-optimally? Killers are suppose to go after different individuals depending on the scenario unless you're the type to tunnel survivors which is why you're giving a negative response.
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No. Limiting SWF to 2 would easily kill the game because it's limiting the quantity of friends to play together rather for competitive or for fun.
Maybe BHVR should add a competitive game-mode that doesn't allow SWF because originally, DBD was suppose to be for fun, not competitive. Ranks are only there to help pair you with players who are at your skill level, that's it. They offer no rewards or anything. Maybe if there were seasonal rewards for grinding higher ranks like how PUBG has their seasonal stuff then I can see your point but no.
I think the core game should 100% keep SWF no matter the amount of players. I hate to say this but this idea is not very bright.
Maybe if they added a 2 vs 5 game for DBD so that killers can DUO but aside from that, I doubt any of this would be a thing. BHVR hasn't made a single change to the amount of players allowed in a game and probably never will.
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@[Deleted User] said:
All I want is DS to pause while downed/slugged and in-chase.
@ViolentSh4de said:
why would you want to buff DS? its way stronger now than wiggle DS
@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/947308#Comment_947308
Either that or bt..but I'm saying more ds because end game it has points where its uncountable
Updated main post.
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@yurochika said:
I think itโs a great idea to wait for the last hook because itโs gone if you use it any earlier... Itโs more effective after your struggling hook. Then again, you could already wait for the last minute. I think if this were to get added maybe the skill check should be a bit more difficult to hit... similar to an Overcharged skill check...
DECISIVE STRIKE SKILL CHECK. (Vanilla & Altered )
Finally, a person with common sense. It's nice to see some people actually agree with me considering this thread mostly consists of Killer mains giving their bias opinion on the matter.
In all seriousness, this would be interesting but perhaps making the last hook DS window not THAT small. That's barely possible. Maybe more like:
Added to mainpost.
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@Karaage said:
Eyes on the Prize
You never lose sight of Your goal. Every time You hit a Good Skill Check, Great Skill Check success zones when repairing, healing and sabotaging get 10% bigger. Hitting a Great Skill Check reduces the Great Skill Check success zones by 10%. Stacks up to 30/40/50% maximum bonus size. Great Skill Check success zones can't be reduced below their original size.
This would be more of a training wheels perk for baby boys and girls. Interesting concept, would like to see a similar perk like this added.
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@immortalls96 said:
Buff the strongest perk in dbd..?
Debatable.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/947202#Comment_947202
Let me put it to you like this: If your counter-argument is "it's okay because there are already other things in the game that are broken with SWF," then you are basically arguing that it's okay to add potentially broken things because broken things already kinda exist in-game. That alone is enough to have this idea dismissed.
Honestly the only way I can see this buff of DS being broken is if a 4 man SWF group outplayed the killer on a end-game and stunning him to let all their buddies to escape which I mean...is kinda the killers fault for not out playing the survivor.
Force the survivors of their DS or something. You can always attempt to slug players in hopes of downing all 4 before their last hooks. There's many ways killers can combat this, you're just pressuring the fact that there will be a 4 man somewhere 'abusing' this buff.
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@yoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/947202#Comment_947202
is stupid and broken, no need to do that ds is arleady way too strong and with this stupid idea playing agaisnt swf would be even more annoying wich happens quite often in red ranks. stop trying to buff survivors they already have the hand of the devs by their side what else do u want?
I'd like to hear how survivors have the 'hand of the devs' by their side. Killers are more broken than survivors but SWF is just as equally broken against Killers. It literally takes a 4 man in most situations to win a game successfully and often in some instances survivors don't succeed because the killers are very good and I commend them.
Killer's have MORE training wheels compared to survivors whereas, survivors are getting loop infinites patched and in addition to that, we still don't have a counter to moris or a nerf.
Of course you think the buff is a 'stupid' idea because you don't like the outcome of that since you're a killer main. That's the point. How are survivors suppose to have a gain without hindering the Killer's success a little bit?
You have to realize that maybe the buff isn't the problem, the problem is SWF which is the main argument here and I have nothing to say about SWF aside from train yourself to be a better killer I guess?๐
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/947202#Comment_947202
Let me put it to you like this: If your counter-argument is "it's okay because there are already other things in the game that are broken with SWF," then you are basically arguing that it's okay to add potentially broken things because broken things already kinda exist in-game. That alone is enough to have this idea dismissed.
Not at all. There's many things that different players believe to be broken and we can go on and on about the list of perks for both Survivor and Killer that are fairly over powered and with SWF it makes it broken.
You must of misunderstood me but, I'm saying it might be broken if used cooperatively for a 4 man SWF group. Not individually/with randoms.
I was simply comparing perks that are fairly broken already if comboed with SWF. The idea is perfect and if you read it through, it's not really bad at all or infinite. Killers already wait out downed survivors so the threat of DS would be the same just more situational for killers.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/947103#Comment_947103
What makes the point not valid?
You're saying the buff would be broken only if used with SWF. Many survivor perks are broken with SWF.
- Adrenaline.
- Breakout.
- Borrowed Time.
- Saboteur.
And killers have counter perks to all of them including DS. That's why it's invalid.
Just because a set group of friends can play together and use it to their advantage to win doesn't make it broken.
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@Raven014 said:
If anything, DS needs a nerf to make it more balanced. It's too easy to abuse by survivors. (Hop in a locker to force DS!)
Not even, killers can just tunnel survivors out of their DS easily. In addition to that, basement hooks are terrible for DS situations. (edit): ALSO, you can wait out the DS.
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/946924#Comment_946924
If your response is "SWF isn't balanced," then to me that means that your idea that would be easily abused by such isn't a good idea.
Just because it wouldn't work well for YOU with SWF doesn't mean it wont work well for you with individual survivors. You're just trying to reach at a point that isn't even valid.
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@EnderloganYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/946888#Comment_946888
step in the right direction, but does it add 1 total gen to prevent the last 2 gens being right next to each other?
It will add an extra generator to the playing field to allow to make up for the lack of killer succession rate.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/946828#Comment_946828
But they're not really options. It forces people to play certain killers just in case this offering would be used in the first place. That's not an option.
Success is vague in this game. It's what you define it. If you're content with 1 kill, then you are. But there is no win condition for survivors... so giving an offering like this makes no sense. (Escaping isn't considered a victory by the game, piping is.)
You also have to realize that not all players care about piping. Your opinion of a victory is piping but for most of the average players in this game, it's escaping. Do you not understand the end goal of a survivor? It's escaping.
There's a reason it's a asymmetrical game but if you want to make it more complicated then it should be then fine but that's on your end lol.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/946820#Comment_946820
You said "not everyone runs DS". What happens if a 4-man SWF team decides they're gonna all run DS together?
Then find a way to combat it. Clutch a basement hook or run perks that allows you to down survivors more efficiently.
SWF isn't really balanced and never will be. The game allows you to invite your friends so killer mains just have to deal with it. Get better or play survivor is all I have to say to that lol.
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@yoi said:
ds doesnt need any kind of buff if any a nerf because it works as anti momentum ( as a punish for free) not as an anti tunnel. many times i got other survivors fast and still comeback and get ds you cant just wait 20 secs extra to hook, 20 seconds is half of a gen done by 2 survivors but devs dont even realize about this. or they do but they dont care fiurst survivors and then VERY LATE adjust the killer.
It's a new dynamic. If my DS got added, killers will just have to play their cards differently. I play a little bit of killer and yeah DS is annoying as hell but on the other hand, once they use it, they're dead as soon as they're downed for their last hook unless this new buff gets added.
But with my suggestion, survivors can choose to save it for the last hook to save their life. We can't see survivor perks but this is why we predict. Most of the time at least at mid ranks and sometimes high ranks, it's all randoms that survive together including me. I'd use this more of as a well to stun the killer to get to the hatch incase I carried myself to be the last one standing or clutch a hook save. The way of this working can only go so many ways.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/946872#Comment_946872
Unfortunately theres nothing to combat bad players, that's why we create more swf groups which led to more killer complaining threads. NOED and Blood Warden is our own faults for opening the doors too quick and not destroying all the totems.
I respect that your now seeing it's too strong in its current form. I still believe though adding extra hook states this way isn't good for the game.
Offerings don't have negative side effects. Perks can but offerings don't. Gens are completed too fast, even getting an extra gen wouldn't help as much as you think.
Again, moris are pretty negative offerings cause you can easily lose pips. With Dark Savior offering, the killer will likely max out everything for chase and bleeding and etc because of extra hook states and if played correctly with the right perks, they can easily kill 1-2 survivors and especially with the addition of stalling the suriviors with having to complete 6 generators now.
I see this pretty balanced even at higher rates. Maybe not so much for SWF but that's the way the game is and everyone just has to accept that. Killer mains will always complain about SWF but that's their problem. ๐ช
I can list a lot of things to combat the odds of succeeding in Dark Savior.
- Moris.
- Map offerings.
- Petrified Oak.
- Perk: Pop goes the weasel.
- Perk: Thrilling Tremors
- Perk: Make your choice
- Perk: Thanophobia
- Perk: Hex:Ruin
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@EnderloganYT said:
only if the ultra rare one doesn't exist anymore without penalties and it only applies to self. this would be way to strong otherwise.
Updated the spawn rate and the way the offering operates. Upon using this offering, it'll force all survivors to complete 6 generators instead of default 5.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/946824#Comment_946824
I want ebony moris nerfed so don't try and imply I'm a killer main. I personally believe it and keys will be nerfed in the mid chapter patch.
The only difference I'd say is that if you play well enough you can maybe avoid letting anyone get moried. However you can't avoid hooking survivors 4/5 times unless you camp someone through the stages or everyone else is downed/hooked.
Love how you ignored the ranked question lol but you can't honestly believe this is even slightly balanced. The community unanimously agrees that old ds and mom were op so why would they introduce something which is stronger than both of them.
@Raven014 has made some very good points in his last post about this.
Just take one moment to think about this. Think back to a game where you were facing a very strong team and they pretty much destroyed you. Now imagine they had 2 extra hook states before they died. If you haven't faced a team like this then you obviously haven't played both sides at any sort of high rank.
I've been in rank 3-7 matches. Not that it matters much since I'm confident enough to make a account on the forums to take the time and write this thread. Anyhow,
Most survivors I pair with are rank 6-10 so they aren't the brightest survivors but they try their best and I get some pretty good games most of the time...however there are some randoms that don't know how to play and this is really a combat to that as well as overpowering perks like NOED and Blood Warden and etc.
I thought of this for a while and figured maybe in addition to this offering, players have to complete 1 extra generator as well? ๐ง
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@MegaTyranitars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944860#Comment_944860
I appreciate you like it. Actually tireless doesen't let you recover faster from exhaustion. It only allows you to recover while running, but at a lower rate. While walking or standing still the recovery is normal.
I think k that any buffs would make it too op. Imagine having dead hard or sprint burst every 40 seconds in a chase... Right now level 3 tireless would take 100 seconds to recover while running and most of the times it'll be even less because you have already recovered some exhaustion in the meantime.
It's a good combo with vigil. This would make games a little more fun to play.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/945063#Comment_945063
Ok then, if you think this is balanced, I'll chuck you the hypothetical scenarios with both at their worst.
Moris remove people from a game immediately. The survivor is hooked, saved, and tunneled. They then have a choice of:
a. spectating the remaining survivors.
b. leaving and finding another match.
Those choices aren't bad. Sure, it's frustrating during the match itself, but you're out of the match quickly, and the offerings get rarer the higher rank you go, since a lot of killers want BPs or Pips instead of just killing.
Then take a look at your proposed offering.
All Survivors get 2 more hooks (bringing the total to 5). This means a single survivor will have 5 lives, or 10 total successful hits without being tunnelled down. That is to the amount of effort to kill just one survivor the survivor approved way with your offering, which is to say, going after the rescuer every time without MYC. For all, multiply that by 4. Each chase usually takes between 30 seconds to 60 seconds, depending on the map and circumstances of course, and so the total amount of time required for chases with this could be estimated to be around 10 to 20 minutes of total chase time. All Gens can get done optimally 160 seconds, if each survivor not in a chase is actively on a different gen (not accounting for toolboxes), which is often the case at red ranks. And this isn't looking at if every survivor decides to bring this offering.
And killer player is subjected to this, and there is no way out of it without a dc.
What do you think killer players will do with the threat of this situation? Here is what I predict:
a. Play Trapper, and other potential one shot killers. Since they can't afford to play chasing killers, they'll be forced to use killers that can either one shot or reduce chases drastically. This includes Billy, Ghostface, Huntress, Hag, Oni, and other killers not perceived as fun. This will make killers like Legion, Wraith, and Demogorgon so much weaker.
b. Use Expose perks / addons with broken status effect. Since there are more chases, anything to make them shorter will be used more. This also includes Bloody coil and addons that make survivors more at risk.
c. Use of anti-healing builds. If you think the healing now is bad, just wait until you go against an anti-healing build. You will remain injured for way longer, making the chases shorter.
d. More slugging/ slugging builds. A lot of killers will just go for slugging builds, since hooking you means less gain for them. And if everyone's slugged, then they can't save you on the hook.
e. More moris. Yep. You will be encountering more of these. Since they bypass the hooks entirely. The price is only hooking each one once... but that's not a high price.
f. More tunneling. A killer would be incentivised to go after each survivor one by one, and if they aren't good at chases... good luck having fun.
And you think killer is actually the overpowered role... it doesn't sound like you play at high ranks very much, if at all... and that's just what I can think of in 5 minutes. The proposed addon is not balanced. At all.
But you see there's options. You can still success in killing 1 or more survivor. Just not a end-game success without a mori.
This would be the Survivor equivalent to a mori. This is why this offering should exist. Obviously, lots of killer mains won't like this since it hinders your success chance but moris exist and I don't see many survivors complain.
However, this is all opinion based. I see this offering being fairly balanced with the current killers/killer perks we have now.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/945063#Comment_945063
Each phase usually lasts a minute so an extra minute or 2 on the hook per survivor is OP. I'm rank 1 killer and survivor and I can honestly tell you this would be way too strong. I don't care about the low spawn chances since people will just keep using Bloodpoints till they get it.
What rank are you at? Be honest because against baby survivors it won't matter how many hook stages there is since the killer will still beat them easily. But at higher ranks where the killer will lose to any good team this is just broken mate.
I don't like just saying someone's idea isn't good but this offering isn't even slightly balanced and gives the killer virtually no chance of winning.
Moris give survivors virtually no chance of winning either, your point?
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944754#Comment_944754
Did you take into account a 4-man SWF that would run DS?
what difference would it make if you force the players out of their DS?
SWF is a acceptable play-style anyways lol.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
Tireless is more a vigil change than an an entire new perk
Vigil? You mean:
You and your Allies withinย 8 metresย of range recover fromย Exhaustion,ย Haemorrhageย ,ย Mangledย ,ย Hinderedย andย Blindnessย Status Effectsย 10/15/20ย % faster?
Cause tireless depletes the timer faster in addition to allowing recovery while running. That's not really the same... :/
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944585#Comment_944585
Giving the ability to have an extra 2 hook states with one offering for everyone... imagine everyone bringing that offering. That is not balanced at all.
Moris aren't balanced at all either. What's your point?
The offering doesn't stack either...read the post.
It's a really low spawn rate anyways so the chances of players running this offering are pretty low.
@CashelP14 said:
I don't think any killer at red ranks would want to face this. Remember how op mettle of man was considered or old ds, this in my opinion is worse than both of them.
This would incentivise camping and tunnelling which I want to less of. Even as a survivor main I can't say this fair. At higher ranks the killers won't get any kills, even with the one extra hook state offering.
I just want to ask something, how long is does the survivor last in the extra hook state?
I wouldn't know how long the hooks are just I'd say the struggle hook is the 3rd hook and if using the ultra rare it would be the 4th hook as struggle.
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People complaining about DC penalties are the same people grinding ranks like they're worth something (specially tryhards). I understand the frustration for paring with random survivors but please understand that it's a game and survive with friends is a thing you can do to prevent taking losses.
DC penalty is needed for this game and I feel the penalty should be harder on killers since they're the host and only come in 1.
They're the host of the game, if they leave, the whole game ends and survivors don't get a measly decent reward for this which is unfair. If reward for inconvenience is not enough/not happening then double the DC penalty duration for killers.
There's been plenty of occasions where I find the Hex:Ruin way too early and they leave because I break it. If this is how killers want to act then we need to discourage them the most since they'll more of a problem when it comes to DCing.
And no, survivors won't only get the short end of the stick. DC penalty for survivors will still apply to them however, in addition to DCing, the remaining players of that trial will have their BP multiplied by 25% more BP for all categories at the end of the trail and this stacks with every DC.
I believe THIS is how it should be done to insure a far less toxic community and for survivors they'll be saying "thanks for the extra 25% I guess." instead of cussing, being toxic and encouraged to leave the rest of the survivors behind.
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@MegaTyranitars said:
Hello people of the fog, here are a couple perk ideas i came up with.
Survivor perks:
-Revelation: You create a special link with the people you meet. The auras shown to you are revealed to your teammates in a 16/20/24 metre too.
-Tireless: You never feel the urge to stop running. You recover from your exhaustion even while running at 30/35/40 % the normal recovery speed.
-In the claws of the evil: When your fear reaches its peak, your will to escape is stronger than ever. If you are the obsession while in a chase the killer's red stain gets 25% bigger. When you are in the killer's red stain, your movement speed is increased by 5/6/7 % for 15 seconds. This perk has a cooldown of 60/55/50 seconds.
-Engineering bases: You can teach some quick engineering and learn at the same time too. When working on a gen, every time you hit a great skill check you get a token, up to a maximum of 4 tokens. For each token, great skill checks area is increased by 16/18/20% for you and every survivor repairing with you. Every succesful great skill check rewards you with 1/2/3% extra repairing progress. Hitting a normal skill check will make you lose 1 token. Interrupting the repairing action will make you lose all tokens.
If you want to suggest any tweaks, feel free to do it. I'd appreciate to hear what you think! :)
I love tireless. I feel the exhausted depletion speed should stay the same rate though. Maybe leveling up the perks allows for less exhausted time than usual and in addition to using this perk you don't deplete the exhausted effect when working on a gen or healing?
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@NeaMainNON_TOXIC3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944840#Comment_944840
Honestly it was just an prototype! I have one other version of it or i have another perk i can sub
Ah don't mention it, that's what feedback is for!
Mind checking out some of my killer suggestions?
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@NeaMainNON_TOXIC3 said:
Name: Forrest Greene (i'm hilarious)
His family lived in poverty. It was fine though. He didn't care, all he needed was his mother. Not his father. Never him. The news told stories of people being thrown from their homes by soldiers. Forrest tried asking what the people meant. Mother never told. She would tell him to keep his faith in their Lord. Forrest forgot all about the horror stories. Lived his life.
Until his sixteenth birthday, it happened. They came in hordes. Hundreds armed with guns. Forrest watched as his friends were gunned down, their bodies strewn across the street. His family was moved from their home to a camp. Stay low, his mother said, never be seen. Don't anger the guards and maybe our Lord will protect us. His father didn't listen. He went to the guards, made friends with them. Forrest and his mother made plans to escape. They were confused when the guards caught them. Father told.
Mother killed, father a rat. Forrest did what he could do. Sold himself. Other prisoners and guards lined up to buy him. No god existed. The Entity thought he would make a great hunter, ruthless. No, Forrest wanted to fight. Rebel. So the Entity granted that wish.
Perks:
Waiting Game: After waiting in a locker for 7/5/3 seconds this perk activates. Once you leave the locker -whether it be fast or slow- you will gain a speed boost of 150% speed. Exhausted for 60/50/40 seconds
(Wait for the perfect moment to run)
Leave Me Alone: When put into injured state by killer, all other survivors within a 8/16/32 meters are shown to the killer. This perk has a cool down of 80/60/35 seconds. (I play to survive, by any means)
Cover Your Tracks: When inside the killer's terror radius, you will not leave any scratch marks. This perk can only be activated every 120/90/60 and can be kept up for a period of 5/10/15 seconds. (They will never find me)
Any feedback is appreciated!
I like this concept of a survivor interesting and unfiltered story (dark).
I love the equality of male and female character ratio in dbd but we haven't gotten a male char since stranger things so this is nice.
Perks are interesting but I personally don't like the Leave me alone perk. I feel it hinders the overall result of the game. If it reveals the aura of other survivors how do you expect to escape or heal? Specially with some killers running nurses calling.
Overall fair suggestion!