ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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- ChaosWam
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@CammyChameleon said:
She's B Tier at best Imo, just turn off her drones in chase for you friends. It's just like Knight where your healthy friend takes the guard aggro for you in chase.
Plus the new Visual Effects that turn white so you know you can't be scanned has been so much nicer to play against her.
No need to change another killer who isn't Problematic anymore and is in the the lower tiers, sure she's annoying but so is legion. Doesn't mean they both need to be nerfed...
Problem with that is SoloQ doesn't really understand that kind of team play. I've certainly done it because I play SM and know how to work around it, but a lot of players don't even know the Knight counterplays.
And while I can sit here and be like 'Nerf all killers to SoloQ level' we all know that only buffs SWF. What we really need is more in-game descriptions of killer powers, basic playing around the killers and the game in general outside the really basic things tutorial teaches, and other aspects of the game in a neat compendium instead of having to load the shop and open up each killer bio.
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I have such a weird mixed feeling on this.
On one hand, survivors still sometimes think drones have the 1HKO effect and don't know you can avoid the beams by crouch walking/standing still.
On the other hand, she does not need haste AND hindered in her kit, and her stealth potential is crazy since she makes pretty much no noise while undetectable.
Also in terms of killrates, I think people giving up against her inflate it like crazy.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648586#Comment_3648586
if its strength is knowing where gens are, then you don't mind the 6% bonus going.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648735#Comment_3648735
my problem with it is that it reverts gen speed nerf to pre 6.1.0 level. So survivor get free base-kit BT but no gen speed nerf because deja vu replaces old BT. It is also low commit perk, i.e survivor can run Adrenaline+Exhaust+w/e with this perk.
A nothing perk means that you don't mind the 6% going. After all, it is nothing change. right?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648606#Comment_3648606
that's fine because you commit an entire build towards gens which allows killer to tunnel you as you are weak link, chase-wise.
I think this is a fair argument actually. I've seen people complain about broken builds when it takes a committed amount of perk slots to run said build and can sometimes be a risk with other areas, for example the recent DMS/GE/PainRes combo that can only work a set amount of times in a trial, or certain endgame builds on both sides.
I think my only real problem with the current Deja Vu is how it has an endless bonus when it comes to an objective speed. I also have this issue with certain haste bonuses like on Skull Merchant since it makes the objective faster to do. Not to mention, Deja Vu makes a lot of other gen aura builds pointless to run if it points to the best gens to finish all the time.
I'd even be convinced to boost the bonus to 10% repair speed if it had it's 50 second window back like before if it were to be reverted. That said, even I think that while I'd like to have it at it's original spot, we may need to let it cook a little longer to see if it does become a problem with the new anti-3 gen. I can theorize and explain my experience running it all day but as killer I don't see it very often myself.
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The problem lies in a system that doesn't harm either side's chances and can't be used as a weapon.
I remember wanting to drop this game because of the Dead Hard/Decisive Strike meta when I started playing around the Sadako release. I also remember when basekit BT was added and survivors, to this day, still try to use it to bodyblock instead of using it to get to a safe spot. And I'm sure we know the little exploits with the anti-facecamp using killers like Bubba or Wesker to tunnel out someone quickly regardless. The problem with giving survivors or killers too much is they weaponize it anyway.
I think my favorite compromise was making unhooked survivors 'ethereal' and unable to bodyblock, be damaged, be seen, or do any task for a duration of time so they can safely get to a location away from the killer.
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@Seraphor said:
Deja Vu is so much of a nothing perk, I don't understand why killers get so uppity about it when the likes of Hyperfocus, Toolboxes and Resilience exist. It's info is far more useful than the 6% speed buff that only shaves off about 4 seconds, IF you manage to stick to that gen for the entire 86 seconds anyway.
I'd much, much rather Toolboxes got a rework similar to Medkits last year, that completely negates their ability to stack with perks of a similar nature.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648631#Comment_3648631
Also consider that Bloodlust was only added to the game so killers could deal with infinite tile loops. Those loops are long gone but we still have Bloodlust.
BHVR work in a "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy, both Bloodlust and Deja Vu are absolutely fine in their current states, regardless of the reason they were created for. They won't remove them 'out of principle' but IF they become a problem. If their stats show that Deja Vu is definitively contributing to lower kill rates, it will get nerfed.
I'd argue there are still quite a few infinite loops without bloodlust. Not as many, but some are there. Also, bloodlust isn't a massive threat because there are multiple ways it deactivates, from using powers to breaking pallets. I still don't understand the bloodlust arguments honestly, because even in my worst games it's rarely ever hitting tier 2.
Deja Vu is a bandaid on a mostly healed wound still, and again, makes other gen aura perks pointless to run.
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Me every match giving survivors self care/botony/bite the bullet/no mither because I know they're going to give me bad perks too.
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It's a modification of the normal game, to make it darker and have less information. It's not meant to be avant garde, it's a stepping stone toward future game mods/modes down the line. It wasn't even a popular pick on their survey iirc, just done because it was easy to implement I would assume.
And heck, it was my least interesting modification from the survey and I actually was surprised how fun it was. My only two complaints being Legion killer instinct somehow working and killers seeing gen auras, and even then I've never had so much fun losing constantly as survivor because of the jumpscares and paranoia.
You can make an argument for tunneling/camping, but I consider those also an issue with the main game that would need to be fixed there as well as in the modifier.
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Isn't Rancor just a half-decent endgame perk even with obsession swapping perks? I've only seen it destroy a full team once, and only because the killer ran bloodwarden and hooked, waited for the unhook to proc furtive chase, and then start the obsession swapping with game afoot+nemesis in the span of Bloodwarden's time. Can you even imagine how bad a team has to mess up for NOBODY to escape 4 Mori animations during Bloodwarden?
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648626#Comment_3648626
I'm sure toolboxes will get nerfed at some point. I was expecting it shortly after medkits got nerfed, but it still hasn't happened yet.
When I hear people complaining about Deja Vu it feels like watching someone side step a pot hole and then fall of a bridge in the process.
Well consider that Deja Vu only got buffed because of the 3 gen issue, as was said as much when it happened. It's only natural people would ask why it wasn't reverted now that 3 gen has a solid fix.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648623#Comment_3648623
It should be the same for survivors. If they are lagging horrifically and it's giving them an advantage then they should get booted from the game and replaced with a bot.
My issue is that there's no reason for killers to not lag out their connection when they play. It incentivizes them to do so and in turn ruins the match for the other 4 players. If anyone should be punished for lagging horribly, it should be the player who is lagging, not everyone else.
It's more of a mixed bag than you'd think.
I remember playing online games years ago when internet was very unstable, and DBD suffers similar issues as before. Swings not connecting despite making noises, getting hit way too far, players rubberbanding back and forth, the whole deal. It can be as detrimental to the lagging player as it is to the one getting hit sometimes. Heck, I bet most people are unaware of how many times a player failed to hit them when the server registers their movements differently due to packet loss.
That said, DBD is actually one of the better games I've seen when it handles weird lag oddly enough. And yes, a ping limit should be considered but have some kind of mercy for those with pings around maybe 120~sh MS ping. Usually when I see really bad lag it was around the 150 to 200 mark.
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@TieBreaker said:
3% haste has substantially more impact than 6% increased gen repair speed. It's not even close.
Again, nerfing Deja Vu does next to nothing to fix the complaint that killers have about gen speeds. If you want to fix that then toolboxes should be your target.
Oh I highly agree with this, and I use MFT as an example on problematic synergies mostly, but I wouldn't ignore the fact that Deja Vu gives you unlimited vision on the closest 3 gens the entire time as well. Not to mention it makes other gen aura perks more useless to run to boot.
But I do agree, toolboxes should be looked at before Deja Vu as well.
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Is it always on purpose though, or is that just something the internet has stirred up because of VPNs?
Sure I guarantee some people manipulate their internet speeds to gain an advantage, but as someone who has dealt with rural internet it's not always malicious or beneficial for the player. Lag has always been an issue with online gaming. We just have to accept that sometimes. I get plenty of matches where survivors rubberband around and I lose them in chase while the scratchmarks struggle to keep up.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648606#Comment_3648606
So nerfing Deva Vu wouldn't really do anything in that scenario. The gens would still fly by. You would have to nerf everything else you mentioned to have any real impact.
The 6% from Deja Vu is not the problem.
It's the same issue as MFT was though, unlimited bonus, pairs extremely well with other perks, and no drawback or cooldown. MFT also had the argument that 3% wasn't much, but paired with other perks it became a much bigger problem.
Heck, Deja Vu doesn't even need a massive nerf like MFT though. Just needs to be put back to how it was before BHVR was looking into the 3 gen fix. Or you could make it go on cooldown when a generator is done for x amount of time so it's available to break a tough 3 gen later, but the 3 gen protection we have already makes that a moot point and it would make Visionary even worse to run.
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I learned that Sadako is way more viable on sneak attacks without the lullaby. Seriously. Survivors have enough time to run to somewhere safe as you manifest if they react accordingly. I always suspected as much but playing it, it's night and day.
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I mean, I think the only maps I really hate playing are the Backwater Swamp and Autohaven maps, for the most part. Coming from a Sadako main, anyway. I think the worst two out of those are Garden of Joy and the Badham maps, and even then I manage at least half of the time which I'm OK with.
Even the farm reworks aren't as bad to me as those maps these days. If you throw in the Boil Over SWF groups, then Coal Tower and Eyrie of Crows becomes pretty annoying to deal with. That said, a lot of maps feel unfriendly depending on the killer you run, and I'm not sure how you'd go about fixing it without overhauling other killers.
Or, you know, make better map layouts/tile generation.
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@Skillfulstone said:
It's 6%!! It literally shaves off like 4 seconds off a gen and only on 3 gens at a time! It's strength isn't from gen speed, it's knowing where the 3-gens are so Survivors don't end up in a 3-gen in the first place.
And the system is flawed anyway, it's not just 3-genning that's gone (although it's not entirely gone) it's gen-defense in general that took a blow and tunneling that got encouraged.
Most people use it because Gold progress bar = Dopamine XD
Only if you run it by itself. Add toolboxes and other perks to the mix.
I personally run it with my stake out/hyperfocus/fogwise build and have had a ton of matches of me doing more than half the gen progress by myself and breaking any killer 3 gens before they become a problem. It's pretty strong if the killer leaves me alone at all.
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@MegMain98 said:
Sadako gets changed every three months so please give people slack who don’t currently know whether it’s Sadako 3.0 or Sakado 17.0. Most players are casual and don’t check patch notes.
I’m a 7200 hour player and even I had a brain fart moment against Sadako.
I was like “why tf am I getting stacks when she didn’t teleport near me”.
I thought it was like Sadako 1.0 where you only got stacks if you were within 16 m of the TV that she teleported to. I didn’t know that you got condemned stacks if you were within 16 m of ANY powered TV.
She gets changed so much that her counters all run together at times. “Do I hold a tape? No that’ll give me stacks. Wait, that’s Sadako 1.0 nevermind. If she hits me I’ll gain two stacks right? No, wait that’s Sadako 2.0.”
Now I couldn’t even tell you what her add-ons do :/
Honestly at this point BHVR really needs to have better communication in-game about updates and killer changes, relying on their blog posts/update logs isn't enough to reach everyone and it clearly shows.
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My matches post-patch are either god-loopers, prethrow pallets and hold W, and tbag everywhere whether they win or lose, or survivors who don't touch tapes and I get 2-3 Mori's.
Honestly I'm rethinking my stance on this rework.
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Lore accurate Sadako
Just look at a survivor, press a button, instant Mori
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Here's my thoughts post-patch:
She still has very little condemned pressure if survivors know how to touch and hoard tapes.
Her lullaby removes her stealth still.
TVs having an aura is a problem, or at least the size of the auras is a big contributor.
Add-ons still need a lot of love, Iridescent Tape needing a complete rework and the current effect put in a brown addon for meme builds.
Everything else does feel good, don't get me wrong, but Sadako's biggest weakness will always be the M1 curse. If she doesn't get a chase power (which I doubt we'll get a balanced one) then consider removing the lullaby. She's loud when she manifests and gives enough of a tell with that sound (which could be shown as a lullaby instead of the constant one) and her visual effects on approach so at the very least she has a stealth edge.
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Terrible, and in truth there are better addons to use. Losing a good chunk of your condemned spread for slowdown is a bad idea since Sadako can only chase 1 player at a time as it is. If you want to run an Iridescent, use the remote.
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Honestly Swamp is the biggest offender for this.
I'm pretty sure every version of that map has at least one TV facing an outside wall.
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I like the idea of a Cypress Mori being basekit at the very least. Still leaves the killer with a choice of sparing the last or killing them, too.
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My biggest problem is Iridescent Tape. I've seen people praise it for mobility but... I don't know, I don't have a pressing need for mobility without it and with it, TVs interacted with survivors are off even longer and that feels even worse in terms of time. That's not mentioning the loss of your pressure tool with condemned.
Most of the other addons just need some love in general too. VCR also needs some adjustments since TV auras are always visable when active within their radius so mindgames have gone down, which I see with my favorite build unfortunately. Maybe if it removed the directional audio of the teleport as well? Even then, the auras give it away.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644836#Comment_3644836
Does she really have no lullaby? That would be great.
From what I tested it sure seems like it. I know huntress has her singing removed on the survivor side too.
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@Hexonthebeach said:
I do like the dark maps. The mode looks unfinished for me but I don't know what I'm missing.
Flashlights and Batteries should be more essential in some really dark locations.
Maybe I'm missing the loadouts, perks could be there but in a restricted version.
I thought there are more maps included:
Hallways with flickering or unstable lights in the Underground Complex would be amazing
A night version from the Resident Evil map with colorful but decent lights. (I hope this map is included in the Zombie Mode)
The swamp at night, with the ship lanterns and will-o'-wisps.
Lerys was funny. A moment I was scared by my own silhouette reflected in a closed door. 😂
The moving shadows from the fans are nice.
And Borgo is still Borgo. It's very cool that it has custom lockers and pallets but it's my last favourite map.
I'm not a massive fan of swamp but I do think it'd be neat with Lights Out.
Also I'm not sure about the technical side of it, but if flashlights worked to lessen the dark around you it could be neat, though a waste of charges. Could become an item unique to the mode though.
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This game mode makes me enjoy playing Pig, a killer I can't vibe with very easily, because of how little stress there is in not worrying about perks and builds.
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I'm trying to look at the game mode itself, and seperating the playerbase's worst aspects from it for now since a lot of these issues are in base game as well. And despite 2 tunnelers because I had TTV in my name, I had so much fun today.
Perhaps I'm insane, but I love barebone game modes.
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I had some fun moments with Sadako, no lullaby baybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Considering the backlash to lootboxes in several countries, I highly doubt it will.
Now a gacha, that's possible and more scary a concept.
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Alternate proposal: Survivors get teleported to basement on hook. Monkey's Paw wish right there.
But seriously, handing over free unhooks to survivors is kind of lame and can even be abused if killers know the logic behind the teleport ala Pyramid Head. It wouldn't really do much to experienced killers unless the map is MASSIVE.
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Great breakdown and suggestions, have to agree on all your points here.
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These are some fair changes, considering the strength of tapes right now.
I'd like to have this left as is for awhile to see how everyone adjusts and if it puts Sadako in the right spot.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642513#Comment_3642513
It was changed in the mid-chapter following the Twins release.
Prior to that, certain addons had timed Mangled effects. Sloppy Butcher was never on a timer though.
Until they changed it, Vigil also affected Mangled but they removed it since there was no use for it anymore. There is one timed Mangled effect in the game right now (Dredge's Tilling Blade addon) which Vigil does not affect.
I've been in this game for a few years now and it amazes me when I'm still learning niche things like this. Thanks for the info!
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I'm in the boat where I think the current Skull Merchant is in a decent spot, nothing great and nothing bad in terms of base power and counterplay. I still hope for the removal of either haste or hindered in her kit, both being there is kinda too much. Maybe more noise while undetectable as well, she's pretty much the best stealth killer right now.
If anything needs reworked, it's her lore and design.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
Oh yeah isn’t the mangled nerf just making it a timed status effect again?
I wasn't aware it was ever a timed status effect, was this before the Onryo release?
That sounds reasonable tbh, was it changed before to combat healing speeds at the time?
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I think DBD would be worse if it had voice chat, absolutely. Only reason Siege comes above it.
That said, I find the ones more dedicated to it, while sometimes very vocal and abrasive, often times are just very dedicated to a game they enjoy and want to see it at it's best potential. Even if we disagree on points, I've had some great discussions about balance and understanding what may or may not work.
That said, I'm on day 2 of being harassed and spammed with friend requests on Steam to try and insult me in DMs for saying survivors still aren't doing tapes in my Sadako matches, so there's that too.
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I'll play SM from time to time because I find her stealth incredibly fun, but only for the stealth and not for delay gameplay.
That said, I have never had as much fun goofing off as Billy in matches as anyone else now. Overdrive was such a good idea, and I do hope the miss cooldown addons get addressed and Overdrive left be. I used to get annoyed with hitting the environment before with the overheat being a looming threat constantly, but Overdrive lets me actually try to get around the map and encourages me to do so, regardless if I get long snipes or not. Plus, without the miss cooldown addons, I feel like I need to throw out M1's if I can't do pro-strat Billy curves and don't need to rely on Chainsaws in loops, more to get around or threaten that instant down at pallets. Meanwhile when I play survivor, it's incredibly fun to try and juke those curves and mindgame things that aren't even loops if they're trying to go for chainsaws, like two boxes nearby each other.
These are the kinds of reworks I like to see, honestly.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641323#Comment_3641323
There's 0 reason for those killers to HAVE a Lullaby. All it does is negate stealth options. Perks like Trail of Torment become useless if the survivors are going to get a warning anyway. Trickster doesn't have the same burst damage Huntress does either. If you don't notice a Trickster is aiming at you until he sinks 8 blades in you... that's on you.
Absolutely agreed on that point.
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@LordGlint said:
The "Lullaby" in general should go, although I understand why they'd want to visual heartbeat to pick it up. It's SUPPOSE to be an accessibility feature, and ppl who can hear can get the information of Onryo's "Lullaby". Kinda makes the undetectable part pointless though.
The biggest reason for it is Huntress I believe. If you're hard of hearing and can't hear her massive lullaby, it's definitely going to be a problem if she's readying a hatchet without you knowing she's near and can see you.
That said, for killers like Sadako or Trickster, their lullabies are so small they pretty much assist in prerunning from them. I have the visual TR on myself because I like the look of it, and yeah it makes them unable to be stealthy.
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Knight is a mixed bag.
His power is amazing for certain situations, but against him he feels incredibly pressuring when those situations are in play. He also kinda needs a few addons to be better than base for his guard detection and duration. That said, I've personally enjoyed running him because of three things:
- Pincer attacking survivors at loops is incredibly satisfying. Jungle gyms are a gamble if they get detected.
- Split pressure is great.
- His sound design is top tier in my opinion.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641144#Comment_3641144
Yep it’s just sad, especially when you like the teleport part of her power.
The thing is saying something about balance and so on will always make people put you in one group. I personally think they should finally bring the weaker killers in line, so that they can buff survivor again, my survivor games are always a miserable experience, most perks and map reworks are just terrible. In my world fun comes from strong/cool stuff/ features, that are fun and balancing often makes things only worse. I don‘t say problematic things shouldn‘t be changed, but what behavior does with cool perks is always making them die/useless.
I kinda have the same mindset but in reverse a bit. If survivors had better access to killer information, powers, etc outside of a match and basekit buffs to things like full aggressive slugging and tunneling that isn't abusable to the killer, low tier killers would have no excuse not to be buffed to proper spots. Then we'd also have things like the uncapped condemned-lockon hook mechanic without worrying about nerfing it like this, as well as other killer powers.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639118#Comment_3639118
I wouldn‘t even call her second version strong, she was just incredible annoying to play against and her only viable way was condemned, which wasn‘t the case with her first version. Now her new version also suffers from the same counterplay problem, which makes survivors turn off all TVs. The only difference is that the counterplay/ tapes have no downside now and you can‘t use her TVs to get close to survivors, because they see the TV aura disappear through walls and decide to prerun always.
Sadly her new version only encourages bad playstiles, because she is way too weak.
I actually went against a Sadako recently and found out how crazy it is you can run around and shut off TVs the entire time with a tape, get rid of your stacks, and repeat. I lost the match because 2 other survivors were trying to bully her with flashlights, getting slugged and wasted all the pallets instead of doing generators. It's still kinda crazy I alone can keep most TVs off if I'm uninterrupted and even if I am, I take a hit and go directly to my target TV and cleanse 4 stacks. I can't even blame her for slugging at that point, and she at least hooked when survivors weren't trying to blind.
Something else crazy about all this? I'm recently being namedropped in the Steam Discussions as some kind of killer defender and want 'all killers to be overpowered' including Blight and Billy for saying to take tapes during the 2.0 Sadako at the time and trying to help explain how to mitigate her, and asking why survivors still don't do it now despite how simpler it is. Had to create a support ticket because I asked if he was trolling and the response got deleted while his namedrop is still up.
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I've been getting a lot of 4ks either because I'm forced to tunnel a tad for pressure since tapes are easy, or bully squads assume all Sadakos are bad now and apply no gen pressure.
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At first I just killed em off and went slightly easier on the other survivors, unless they also gave up then I'd end the match quick.
Now, playing survivor a ton as well, I slug them and waste their time too, then eventually kill them off after a few gens pop and then practice killer powers or something until the rest leave. It starts to bother me that I play as fair as possible for survivors and still get players like that because of whatever reason.
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Yeah nah, I did a ton of testing between the PTB and Live, Live Sadako is way worse because of those changes.
And heck, I've gotten lots of 4ks as current Sadako. The thing is, I haven't gotten more than maybe 2-3 condemned stacks if they don't ignore the tapes. Against good teams, I've had to consider tunneling and proxy because I had no condemned pressure due to the ease of tapes and no tactical TV movements since you need to pump out that condemned and not waste a teleport to get any value.
I think the only reason I stand a fair chance is I use the Photograph addon and manifest at specific times for information on movement and I have a lot of hours on Sadako's M1 game due to 1.0 Sadako. Anyone else who used Sadako for condemned or stealth is suffering very hard. And heck, my VCR/Deadman's Switch combo is hanging by a thread due to the TVs being highlighted.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639120#Comment_3639120
They changed it from PTB, instead of losing stacks when obsession loses a health state, you lose stacks when hitting the obsession with a basic or special attack. They changed it because obsession could lose health state by bleeding out to deep wound and using plot twist.
Oh I know that, I thought it was when the special attack deals a health state is what I mean.
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The fact that slinger's spear, that does no direct damage, takes stacks was already confusing me but trickster knives? I thought the perk is supposed to lose stacks on damage. Please tell me this is some kinda spaghetti code.
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@radiantHero23 said:
I'm now recording my matches.
I have video evidence of how awful she is.
The matches get increasingly frustrating... More and more survivors find out about how useless my power is and start bming. It honestly is just heartbreaking. I rarely got this depressed over a game. Ever.
This is not what we wanted. This is horrible.
The thing that bothers me in this situation is there's a handful of survivors who think it's justified because of 2.0 Sadako slugging, tunneling and spamming. Which I find increasingly ironic since my survivor matches against Sadakos end up in slug fests, tunneling and attempted condemned 'spamming' through slugging and picking up like 1.0, just without the Ring Drawing.
On my end with Sadako, I have now heavily relied on Bamboozle and Dissolution to cut down as much loop time as possible while still running VCR/DMS for time since Condemned doesn't gain much at all. My only saving grace is my prior knowledge of her M1 game, because VCR is way less effective now that TV auras are a thing, it's quite a difference.