C3Tooth
C3Tooth
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700256#Comment_3700256
Seriously, stop with the semantics. You are missing the forest for the trees.
There are plenty of obstacles in the game that you can force killers to take a straight path around. Most main building have long walls to enable this. You will usually have enough time to get to a safe tile to start playing around if the killer actually commits to you, which is why most don't. Haddonfield and Midwich were infamous for this, with old Object of Obsession, because most killers couldn't cut you off on those maps.
There is nothing wrong with saying that holding W is strong. I use it against a lot of killers because it is easier to guarantee my chase time is longer then if I risk a 50/50 at the pallet against killers like Pyramid Head, Pig, Slinger, Nemesis, Doctor, etc.One last question on Midwich.
Shack is the strongest title in the game, there is no argument, but its not like you never play killers in B-A-S tiers. Keep bringing D tier killers combined with scenarios that literally not exist does not prove anything in the forest.
You wanna talk about against strongest teams, bring Blight & Nurse in.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700256#Comment_3700256
Seriously, stop with the semantics. You are missing the forest for the trees.
There are plenty of obstacles in the game that you can force killers to take a straight path around. Most main building have long walls to enable this. You will usually have enough time to get to a safe tile to start playing around if the killer actually commits to you, which is why most don't. Haddonfield and Midwich were infamous for this, with old Object of Obsession, because most killers couldn't cut you off on those maps.
There is nothing wrong with saying that holding W is strong. I use it against a lot of killers because it is easier to guarantee my chase time is longer then if I risk a 50/50 at the pallet against killers like Pyramid Head, Pig, Slinger, Nemesis, Doctor, etc.Why should I stop? Killers describe their chasing time like a child connecting the dots on paper to draw an image. Thats not how chase works.
Im so tired of "divined by 0.6"
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700237#Comment_3700237
You are kind of missing the forest for the trees.
I rounded this up for everyone's convenience, and I said it was an approximate. I am aware that 20/0.6 is 33.33… seconds. I prefer to round up rather than down for such things. And yes, I did not discuss lunges, that was intentional, because lunges and powers are very tedious to calculate. Also you got the speed wrong for lunges, it increases your movespeed to 6.9m/s for the duration, or 150% of a 4.6 killers speed. Not that it matters, because that wasn't even the point I was making.
The point is you can greatly extend your chase times by approximately 30 seconds minimum, and that is assuming you start running at 20 metres rather than as soon as you react to the TR, which being generous means you can start running when the killer is around 28-30 metres away from you. If you can see the killer outside the TR and start running as soon as the music triggers, that is around 50 seconds approximately (yes, I am rounding down by a few seconds for this, nice whole 10s number).Holding W is strong. I use it a lot, more survivors should take advantage of it if they want to win their matches.
Also you got the speed wrong for lunges, it increases your movespeed to 6.9m/s for the duration, or 150% of a 4.6 killers speed.
EXACTLY.
Except its 150% speed of killer, not survivor. Its 172.5% speed compared to survivor
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700194#Comment_3700194
Have you seen midwich, RPD, lerys and all that maps
basically, yes
Wanna talk about Lery? This is one of the Gen position in Lery. Survivor starts to hear TR. They tends to stand still at the middle between 2 doors to check which one killer comes
When the chase starts, the distance is mostly below 10m, cut down the Lung, it is 7.7 meters.
Its your turn to create a scene where a survivor can run in straight line at the edge for 34sec before taking a hit. Go.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700194#Comment_3700194
These are the map sizes I am talking about, under Map Sizes:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Realms#Map_Sizes
I am not actually arguing that Holding W needs to be nerfed, but let us all keep the facts straight rather than building a strawman.
Two, you forget there are many obstacle in the map, its pretty much not possible unless they run at the edge of the map, and most maps have wall cut in L shape like Azarov, Asylum, Sactum .ect
Three, this is a graph showing how you actual chase survivor, not "closing distance in a single straight line"
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700194#Comment_3700194
These are the map sizes I am talking about, under Map Sizes:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Realms#Map_Sizes
I am not actually arguing that Holding W needs to be nerfed, but let us all keep the facts straight rather than building a strawman.
First. Killers saying it takes 34sec to catch a survivor 20m ahead of you
20m of distance / 0.6m of closing the gaps = 33.3sec
Completely forget there is Lung speed (175% speed on 0.8sec). Which cut down 2.3m. By this alone would cut the time down by 3.8sec. Means its not 33.3 (for some reason you round up by 0.7 but not round down by 0.3), but rather 29.5sec
So the next time when you calculate the time it takes to reach survivor, minus 3.8sec for the Lung. You dont hit survivor by your hitbox overlap survivor's hitbox.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700155#Comment_3700155
Against a good amount of killers, holding W is the easiest thing you can do to extend your chase duration. Against a basic 4.6 m/s M1 killer, if you run in a straight line away from them, they only gain 0.6 metres per second on you. If they haven't started a chase, they won't even get blood-lust for a good while.
Assuming that the killer is 20 metres away when you start running (which is very generous, seeing as you can run as soon as your visual TR lights up for around 30-32 metres), that means it would take approx 34 seconds just to get in range to hit you. That is more than a third of gen progress. And that is just to get in range to hit you, if you are healthy the killer still needs to down you afterwards. after 34 seconds of straight sprinting, you would have covered a distance of 136 metres. Bear in mind, the largest realms in the game have a maximum length of 176 metres, so for most maps that you can see the killer, you will be able to get to any main building or tile most of the time.
This is why it is important as Killer to not make it so obvious which way you are approaching from, and why SWF is really strong, because SWFs can call out your position and plan a course of action that is safest for them. It is also a reason why map mobility is so strong for killers, as anything you can do to close the distance on a survivor is less time you waste just getting in range to hit them.
I had a solo survivor match against a trapper where we just destroyed him even though he had a 3 gen. We didn't step in any traps because we were just avoiding grass running in a straight line away from the gens anytime we heard his TR. He eventually ran out of kicks to regress and there was basically next to nothing he could do.34sec x 4m/s is 136 meters in straight line. Is this the map you're talking about?
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@TieBreaker said:
Yeah, "Hold W" is one of those terms that gets thrown about as though you just hold forward and somehow waste a minute of the killer's time. You can sprint past one loop, but you're likely gonna have to play the next one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699938#Comment_3699938
I believe they're suggesting that the effectiveness of holding w to the other side of the map is overstated.
Yes! You got it!
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699946#Comment_3699946
That escalated fast.
And completely friendly fire
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700059#Comment_3700059
it does when you actually have a team when understands you have it (same as with Deli/Wicked)
Oh you mean Swf.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
1. Do gens
2. Go for the save when hooked survivor is about to reach the second hook state and trade hooks
OR
use Reassurance on the hooked survivor earlier and give the remaining 2 players who do gens more time for it.
3. Enjoy killer getting 1k at most, with decent chances of making a save for the hooked survivor that traded hooks with the first camped one.
Reassurance doesnt work on Solo.
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@KerJuice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699896#Comment_3699896
lmao good analogy.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699934#Comment_3699934
I blame SWF’s for that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699890#Comment_3699890
Broken Key & Green Map are definitely useless alone, but they each have an add-on that makes them viable. For the Broken key, I use the purple ring so I can get a poor-man’s Bond on the obsession (more useful than you would think). For the green map, I use the string/chord add-on that lets you see the killer’s belongings, along with a slow map burning add-on. Those add-ons pretty much turns the green map into an Iri map.
But I get the gist of what you’re saying- the add-on that eliminates skill checks on toolboxes or lessens the noise of your repairs, are antiquated; they don’t fit today’s DBD. Neither does the map add-on to see the exit gates or use a marker. All straight doo-doo inventory cloggers.
Killers have useless add-ons as well, to be fair.
Only the top 5% 4 people SWF have significant higher escape chance. The rest have 3% higher than the goal.
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@solarjin1 said:
I'm not sure what they cooking..but let them cookkkk!!!!
I made it easier to understand now!
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699918#Comment_3699918
Yes absolutely, I played Friday all the time where survivors had a 10-20% escape rate. And there were EIGHT survivors. Along with the maps being almost TEN times the size. Escaping in that game felt amazing honestly, and seeing Jason was always terrifying because how deadly he was which made it waaaaay more fun. And I do play survivor a decent amount now and I gotta say, some matches are very boring because how much of a non threat the killer can be. That’s why I like NoEd, it makes it scarier and more tense.
Oh, so its OKAY for killer to have 40% win rate right?
RIGHT?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
This game is much more balanced than you would think. Friday had a 80-90% kill rate. People still played that game and loved it. This is the closest to balanced any Asym game has ever come. And they have done a pretty amazing job considering they have thousands of perk combinations to think about and balance on top of considering killer powers with it. I escape about 4 out of 10 matches and it’s fun, it feels fine. A killer should be a threat. Not a rival, not an opponent, but an unstoppable force that can only be slowed down and if you aren’t ruthlessly efficient in your objectives then you pay the price. The fact that they can make survivors escape as much as they do is amazing and a testament to good balance. If it was 50/50 this game wouldn’t be fun at all, people play killer because they are iconic characters and are the power role. If a killer can’t kill then what are they? Escapes should be somewhat rare which makes them more rewarding. Trust me, this game is great on BOTH sides.
Would you want to play a side that have 40% of winning chance?
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Despite all the survivors' nerf. I do think survivors are fine (on most part though).
The only problem that is tunneling, people said give killer a sword instead of a knife they would stop tunneling, but instead they tunnel with the sword.
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You question my ability creating realms?
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699433#Comment_3699433
Twins haven't even in live
The thought of buffing Huntress & Twins that insane is the proof of Dev's path on balancing killers.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I've always thought this would make sense. I think he should have 2 sets of powers. His dream snares and environmental traps. In addition to fake pallets, I think he should be able to put up barriers where broken walls exist that allow him to pass through freely but survivors in the dream state can not pass through. Maybe make it so he can trap generators too. This would incentivize survivors waking out of the dream world more and also be more true to his lore. Something like 6 dream snares, 2 fake pallets, 2 fake walls, and 1 gen trap seems fair to me.
This sounds more like Trapper than the Trapper.
But I think if he has 10 traps that can freely swap between two options that would create more depth in his game play
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@Tsukihi said:
The reason you can say that the killer is easy is because you are not playing on an Asian server. It would be easy for a murderer to play on a North American server with slow power generation to enjoy various things.
But…Im an Asian with 73% kill rate on Myers…
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699230#Comment_3699230
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699234#Comment_3699234
Do the math homework I gave you, and then we continue the debate.
This doesnt need a math.
The whole point killers try to make "60% kill rate doesnt mean they win more than 50%" is just attempt to make Devs aim for higher kill rate balance, there is no reason other than this.
- So I put a math that there is no way the win rate is lower than 50%
- Why killers not content with 50% win but want survivors to content with 40% win
@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699217#Comment_3699217
You are right (tho possibility 3 is 40% win, 40% loose, 20% draw). But not exactly.
60% killrate does not means exactly 60% kills.
In a grand scale its much more 2k and 3k, and much less 0k and 4k, so avarage will still be closer to 40% winrate than 55% (this should be value in Your post, not 58%).
But yes, there is possibility of series of 3k making winrate around 80% in such scenario. But vast majority will be with 2k (or at least that should be from statistics) and thus much less 3k and wins. Median killrate then is 55% but avarage will be much lower.
(Imo. 3k and hatch should count as 4k for purpous of killrate count, and killrate should be balance little below 60% like 58%)
If 60% kill rate doesnt mean 60% kills, then what does it mean…?
Killers count a survivors death as a killer, either Mori, Hook, or Entity. Counting hatch escape as kill only increase killrate and gain unnecessary MMR for harder match (which is not benefit to killers). Win or lose is made up to each players, not by the rule.
If the post game instead showing "Merciless / Brutal killer", but showing "You win" everytime killers get 8 hooks but 0K, will they play fair and spread hook?
No, the more kills, the better.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699226#Comment_3699226
Then what you are not getting (among other things) is, again, that for it to be a 60% killrate on average some players need to do more, and other less. That's why it is an average.
I invite you to answer the questions I made to @ratcoffee and see it yourself.
Oh so thats mean some survivors have 30% escape rate so other can have 50% escape. But is that 30% escape rate okay for you?
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I really think some aura perks should stop when chase starts. Then the aura timer can be higher to help with low mobility killers.
- 9sec on Myers is just enough to start a chase.
- Blight, Nurse, Wesker can starts chase in 3sec then use the rest of aura time as wall hack is not okay.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699217#Comment_3699217
Sorry, I'm trying to understand what you posted, but I don't even know what this "possibilities" are about, not how you calculated that, or how it answer any of the questions I made.
I would be helpful if you explained it with more detail.
The chart with Possibility 1 shows after 5 matches (0K 0K 4K 4K 4K) with 12 kills/8 escapes (60% kill rate, with 60% win rate, 40% lose).
Goes the same for other 3 possibilities.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699149#Comment_3699149
Seeing that @Archael already answered you, I have another question: In those 8 games, the same one survivor always escaped.
1.- What is the winrate of that sole survivor on those 8 games?
2.- Counting the escapes of the other 3 survivors in the 3 0K games, what is the winrate of all the survivors in those 8 games?And another: In the same scenario of 8 games, another killer kills the same amount of survivors, but equally distributed between the 8 games.
1.- What is the maximum "nK" that the killer would have done in those 8 games?
2.- Taking in count that, what is the winrate of this killer?When you answer, you would see why thanks to the asymmetry of win conditions you have to balance it taking in count averages, not specific made up scenarios. And if you not, I already wrote walls of text in other posts explaining it to you (and others like you), so I will not do it again.
40% win is the lowest possibility, while 80% win is highest possibility. Of course in a thousand of games, you dont get exact 400 matches with 3K and 600 matches with 2K to argue about "Killers only have 40% win". But rather a mix between all 4 possibility, which is about 58% win rate in average.
What survivors have? 40%.
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Its actually simple. 5 matches, 12 kills, 8 escape.
You can list all the possibility. The win rate is ALWAYS higher than lose rate.
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@Chaosrider said:
Ah here we go again. You do not understand the purpose of EGC at all.
Obviously you havent play killers long enough (´∀`)
@solarjin1 said:
Honesty not to sound rude friend but u back at it again?I'm really starting to think it should be a cap on how many threads someone can make a day. This is your eleven thread in 2 days all complaining about things on one side exclusively. You struggling this much??? What killer do u play.
Nowaday I would ask "do you use 4 slowdown and tunneling?" rather than "which killer do you play"
Most killers are fine nowaday, its up to the players if they win by cheese winning and be at MMR where they should not be.
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@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698782#Comment_3698782
forcing the killer to hit your BT is plenty strong already as it grants fr more distance than if the killer chose to wait it out.
Just asking, Blue S is survivor, Red K is killer. Survivor is just unhooked.
- Where do you think survivor will run away after unhooked?
- What are you going to do? Hit the BT? Or wait for 10sec?
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697823#Comment_3697823
do you have an art forum page? and if not please do your art rocks
You can search C3_Tooth on Twitter, but I draw lewd sometimes…process with caution
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698058#Comment_3698058
Sorry if it seemed like I was implying that you wanted to know the perks in my post, I know that’s not what the post was talking about so sorry if it came off that way.
I think the reason some people are bringing it up is because it would allow you to know what the killer is using simply based off of when it activates. If it activates after a hook you know they have BBQ, if it’s after a gen kick it’s probably Nowhere to Hide, if it’s after unhook then it’s Floods of Rage. It doesn’t directly tell you what caused it but you can pretty easily figure out what it was and just remove all the value from future activations if it.
Not wanting to use Distortion because it screws over teammates is fair, and that might be how the Spine Chill suggestion could be a better choice. It allows you to know that you are visible while at the same time allows you to use that knowledge to protect your teammates (or hide if you don’t need to save anyone).
Perhaps mix the ideas. Spine chill activate when survivor is in Killer's screen cone, doesnt matter if clear sight or aura. So if survivor's aura shown, but if killer doesnt look at the direction, the perk is not activated. Killers can also counter when look at survivor 45 degree side way.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Some don't as they never play killer at all.
That being said, I have zero sympathy for killers who tunnel off hook and proxy for the sake of it. But killer is not easy in the current meta I will say that much. Playing a weaker killer can be pretty rough
I played 50 matches as no slowdown Myers with 73% kill rate. There are only 2 arguments on this:
- If their matches are harder because they're at higher MMR than me, means their kill rate should be higher than 73%, which is completely killers sided.
- If they're struggle to get a kill that much with killers that higher tier than Myers, which means…its the lack of skill on their side.
There is no way you're struggle to ever get a kill but stay on high MMR.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697821#Comment_3697821
That would take fun from the specific killer.
What about 4 other people that are in a trial with you? Is it fun for them to get free hits because there is no indications about killer position? (no aura reading, no terror radiue etc.)Yet another killer main thinking only about his experience :)
Nazzzak is probably at least 70% on survivor side, and so do I. But I also think my idea would take away the fun from Scratch mark Myers. That was a quick conclusion from a single comment you saw.
@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697871#Comment_3697871
True it would be outclassed by Distortion in most scenarios. I agree with you there.
I think Distortion is more than enough to counter auras though. Most of them aren’t strong enough to justify a base kit warning to them and can always run Distortion if you are having trouble with them.
If aura perks become weaker then killers will be even more inclined to run full slow down, which is not a very good idea I believe.
It’s an interesting idea but I don’t see the need for it or it having an positive long term effects.
First off, as many people misunderstood my point. I just want to know if my aura being shown, something that Distortion users can, not that I want to know what killer's perks are.
And most of all, I dont want to use Distortion, because as an evader, I still want to take chase for last hook teammate, using Distortion would lead my teammate to death. While OoO doesnt suit my play style as its asking to get chased.
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@WolfyWood said:
Can't agree with this one.
Killers should not be punished for being good enough to kill someone early.
Getting someone out early just needs to take more skill.
I dont think there is skill by homing to the same injured survivor.
@TheArbiter said:
Look, im sorry but if someone dies at 5 gens that's on the survivors
Its MMR mismatching, not skillful on killer part, or mistake on survivor part.
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Make it like 15% debuff on Gen/Healing instead of running speed. And that's it.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
This would just be an unnecessary nerf to aura perks. They already aren’t super useful right now anyway because of Distortion and a wide spread aura nerf will just push people to use slow down even further.
There was someone on here recently who suggested a buff to Spine Chill which made it so it activated whenever your aura is being shown. That could work but as a base kit feature it is way too much.
If between Spine chill "know aura being shown" and Distortion "know aura being shown + hide aura + hide scratch mark". Im sure people still use Distortion.
Even if you buff to have Spine chill hides scratch mark, and nerf Distortion to only hides aura. Distortion is still more useful. Because you know…killer is seeing your aura, not scratch mark.
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@Huge_Bush said:
No thanks. Survivors don’t need anything basekit that informs them about what perks the killer may have. They should use their brains and try and deduce what perks their opponent is running just like Killers need to do with Survivors.
I dont want survivor being able to tell which aura perks killer use in an instant, just beside the part "being watched", and I have no idea how to implement such idea.
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@Commander_Nefarious said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697818#Comment_3697818
- lucky break and boon shadowstep
- lucky break
- iron will, off the record
- off the record, lron will, bite the bullet
- quick and quiet
- calm spirit or crouching
- third person camera and checkspots and red stain
I can give tips but I rather stop here, cant keep this going.
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Just a problem of mismatching. What do you say about Nurse 4K at 5 Gens? Yes, mismatching. Or killers dont realize its difficult to play survivor against strong killers?
There is nothing wrong when an average killer lose to strong teams.
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@Nazzzak said:
That would take the fun out of scratched mirror Myers though
I agree on that…
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@D3spair said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QKI41E2IMSO9/image.png
Object of Obsession says Hi
I dont want to use a perk, nor able to see killer. But basekit able to tell Im being seen.
Otherwise, between this and OoO, I would just Distortion for the same thing. Because Im more evader rather than chaser.
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@Commander_Nefarious said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697805#Comment_3697805
whats the point of being here if no one is constructive and serious. im not saying survivors cant hide but it will take longer to find hiding survivors. havent u ever played killer?
- Scratch marks
- Blood
- Breathing
- Grunting
- Noise
- Crows
- Predict their movements
I was addicted to Nurse calling and No where to hide. But after 10 matches without aura perks, I gained back my game sense. May be you should try.
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I use both
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696518#Comment_3696518
Probably because they felt bad for it, what else really
If anything, it'd actually improve escape rate as people stops wasting their perk slot for that just doesn't work for 99% of time
Now you mean Devs should nerf weaker perks to the point survivors never use it but prefer using stronger perk to improve escape rate.
Thank you for confirming Hope and Adrenaline doesnt work 99% of time though.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696490#Comment_3696490
Removing endgame perks hardly changes survival rate
Then it means it hardly change killing rate. Then why complain about Hope and Adrenaline?
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Reassurance for me is below C in Solo, even before AFC is a thing.Its only useful in Swf.
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@GeneralV said:
Wesker is definitely not a healthy benchmark, imho. In fact, he is a good example of what to avoid.
What's wrong about him?
I mean, beside his ability to tunnel with his 350 dashing speed on 92 speed of infected survivor.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694708#Comment_3694708
Careful pinging mods lol. I forget the rules on it. Unless thats only bhvr staff.
I prefer to have mod/Devs answer this question. There were so many people, for some reason, desperately want Spirit to be under 18 so they can accuse me..
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The whole existence of Charlotte is just to pick up survivors.
