C3Tooth
C3Tooth
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I hope its truly punishing tunnelers while not weaponizing it as some survivors getting healed then do double body block.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661930#Comment_3661930
I don’t think there needs to be a distinguish between win and dominate. 3k with a hatch is a win and so is a 4K. Phrasing it as you are tries to make someone feel bad for playing the game as intended and going for a 4K.
My points were simply illustrating that the killer shouldn’t be the one solely blamed for slugging to get a 4K and also that if the game got to the point of a hatch escape being a factor that I would view that as the killer having “earned a 4K”, as at that point the only difference between 3 and 4K is a coin flip.
So the difference between win and dominating. If the killer got zero hooks and all 4 survivors are running out should we coin flip if the last survivor just gets auto placed on a hook as he runs out? I mean like you said the survivors still “won”, why the need to dominate? Why not give the killer a chance for a little since they already won.
Defending the hook to secure 1 kill is probably the close situation to the hatch (not exact the same by mechanic). But with the right play, its possible for killer to get from 1K to 2-3K. Something that survivors are not able to do. 2 roles are not the same so you cant bring the flip coin of hatch mechanic and apply exact the same to the 4th survivor to flip coin to gate escape.
Im sure other 2 death survivors and the hatch escape one dont complain about the slugging. Its the slugged survivor wasting 4min doing nothing, this does not affect me since I can tab out and draw, along with I hope that 4K gains the killer's MMR to play against an "equal try that hard to win team".
Btw, I checked my 50 matches challenge as Myers, the hatch case happened in 29 matches, but hatch escaping were only 6 of them. So it is not 50/50. Killers have higher speed, and not in hiding so searching for hatch is probably on Killers' favor.
Im up for removing the hatch though. Increase the killrate by over 12% because there is no pity escape means nerf to killers. Can you image all the buff killers got for the last 2 years to only gain kill rate by 8%. Image the nerf they got to drop the kill rate by 12%.
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@Blueberry said:
I mean the killer doesn’t want the last survivor to get a free pity escape for no reason when he won and that last survivor wants his chance at the free pity escape.
They both equally could choose to end the match earlier if they wanted so I don’t see why it’s more focused negatively towards the killer when they are both at fault.
At least the killer has the stance that he’s basically won the game since they’re at that point to begin with meaning they’re doing it because they feel like they’ve earned the 4K. While the survivor hasn’t earned it since they’ve essentially lost, it’s a pity win for them. I’d be more likely to blame the last survivor hiding and waiting for the hatch than I would the killer.
If the end game was less of a “I won but I’m still forced to play a 50/50 of whether I get the 4K I earned” you’d see less killers slug like that. This is why I don’t mind getting slugged in this scenario, the killer doing it makes sense. Imagine if we 4 escaped as survivors with the killer getting zero hooks but right as the last survivor is running out he’s forced to flip a coin of whether he dies and the killer gets a free kill just..because. That sounds silly right? That’s what hatch is.
There is a difference between winning in game and winning by domination.
I played against sabo squad, hooks denied. But then I was able to slug all of them. I already win (by dominating) at that point. I dont need to kill them.
hatch escaping is already a win for me (both dominating and in game rule with 3K). I dont get why should I need to make my MMR gained by double. Winning “harder” gives you nothing.
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Killers tunnel not because it works against the top 10% survivors who can chain titles and make chase last forever.
Killers tunnel because they know it works against 90% of the remaining survivors.
Without tunneling, they should still able to win against at least 60%, but they dont like that.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660649#Comment_3660649
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660651#Comment_3660651
I literally gave an idea twice above on how to incentivize hooks. Have a gen repair debuff for every survivor left alive and give a gen repair buff for every dead survivor. Tweak the numbers so it's better or the same effectiveness as tunneling. Killers don't get blitzed in the first two or three minutes and Survivors aren't facing an insurmountable obstacle escaping once a teammate is gone and three survivors with three gens left escaping becomes feasible. Make it so the best strategy for Killers is to get multiple Survivors on death hook before somebody is killed.
Anyone who thinks that suggestion would only make matches easier for Killers is not displaying critical thinking skills.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660784#Comment_3660784
That still does not fix all issues. Because it does not matter how much speed bonus survivors gets, when one of them dies it's gg. Because one survivor will be on hook, one will be in chase and the other have to go for save. So nobody is doing gen.
Killers are tunnelling at 5 gens for a reason.
I have the same idea, but depends on how faster remaining survivors can do Gen need to be looked at. Even if 3 survivors have 150%, it does not make up for 1 death teammate that can be useful on healing, hook securing, since 3 survivors remaining is a loops of "On hook - In chase - Secure" and no one does Gen.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660473#Comment_3660473
And when i ask how, nobody is answering. How we will balance game around hooks
Its just an excuse for killers who play 4 hooks 4 kills to drop MMR and play against easier teams. While I play 8 hooks before killing is punished to play against strong teams.
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@DyingWish92 said:
Tru3ta1ent has been saying for YEARS now to balance the game on hooks and not kills. But the community wanted to cancel him instead.
How many hooks should happen in a match in average?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654357#Comment_3654357
Generators did not got nerfed?
You got new anti-gen perk and it's meta: GE
Now kicking gens is removing 5% progress.
Gen tapping removed.
And i never saw people were reaching 8 regression events on single gen in normal matches, except Dull Merchant. So this is just buff for killers.
Mangled will be fine.
Whe you ever mention about Gen. never forget to mention killers have 50sec of Gen for free
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The real use of the perk.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658563#Comment_3658563
Honestly I’d take iron will if it only completely muted you standing still pretty sure it was like that 6 years ago
I think it should be lower and lower when you're not running (and opposite), so you can only use it "defensively", not in chase. Standing still is too much.
Just hope they dont buff survivors the way the "buff" Calm Spirit.
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We got Taylor Swift
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658638#Comment_3658638
Winrate is practically the same as killrate, over a large amount of matches.
This winrate vs. killrate nonsense is just a forum thing to artificially make the statistic look lower, by counting 2K as a draw for the survivors but still a loss for the killer, then they say the killer winrate is lower than 60%. But this is flawed, a 2K should just be considered a draw for both sides.
I remember someone tried to convince me that 2K is a lost for killer, but match that survivor have 1 escape should count as "1 win" in that match.
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@acoldboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658691#Comment_3658691
Making a more cohesive MMR system seems like the way to go. Of course separating the 2 groups would affect queue times, ETC. In the stat of the KILLS = WINS, ESCAPES = WINS, it just forces killers to play one way, and makes survivor extremely hard to do.
No, getting more kill and escape is the final goal of the game, killers are to kill, and survivors are to survive. MMR system does NOT tell you, or force you to kill and escape as win. You dont even know your MMR to attempt to claiming it up.
The whole point of MMR is just "You escape/kill alot means you're good/sweaty alot and push you up against people who are good/sweaty alot". Nothing else. I dont understand why most killers try to climb a number they dont see.
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When anyone wants a comp mode, just show them this
To be fair, MMR is there to do that job, not always good.
But there are people who are not comp in mind (they dont mind losing, use off meta) but have high skill. And there are people who are comp in mind (cant stand losing, stacking meta) but have low skill. These 2 types of people are actually match well with each other.
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@Alice_pbg said:
as someone said in another thread...
either these will have an actual worth reward, which will suck for killer. and that is bad.
or they will have something not worth it, which will suck for survivor. and that is bad.
don't think you can go big downside and big reward in a way that is good and fair for both sides...
so the invocations should focus on small rewards for small downsides
Even if removing Broken, spending 120sec in the basement does not worth the 13.5sec on each Gen.
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@Pulsar said:
It won't be worth it unless it's brokenly OP.
120 seconds.
In basement.
Only one Survivor can use it.
Weaving Spiders is a horrible perk and I expect the other will be too
if you do it in early game and complete the ritual. You gain 95sec of Gen that split into 7 Gens. The better way to spend 120sec is to complete 1 Gen by yourself. Not mention the ultimate downside of Broken.
If you do it in late game with 1-2 Gen remaining (3-4 Gen not complete). You gain ~40sec of Gen that split to 3-4 Gens. Why should you spend 120sec for that???
I rather to make you do the ritual for 30sec then gain a Brown toolbox with a BNP.
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@Mazoobi said:
Solo Q has remained a circus for years now.
I dont think Solo would be so bad if killers understand that they should have 60% kill rate. Since getting 2K is so easy to achieve.
But most killers play against teams that better than them because of constantly 3-4K equal or weaker teams and gain MMR, which they have to tunnel to have a chance. Then when MMR put them down to equal or weaker teams, they still keep tunneling because they used to it.
And this is the problem for average Solo's game play, the only games that they can have an interactive game and have a chance to win is the whole team playing against weaker killers (which is not possible because you also get weaker teammates), or against equal killers who play fair (extremely rare case), usually only killers who are better, or/and high tiers knowing they would 4K in their grasp would play fair.
Pretty much Solo game is either getting chased to death first, or hold M1 on gens hoping teammate able to run long enough to escape or being the next death one. No time to do totem, chest, or even looking for teammate for healing.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
By this logic, Killers have to bring slowdown to prevent "genrushing", so Survivors have to bring perks to prevent tunneling.
Not trying to defend tunneling but your logic is pretty flawed, if you want to make an argument against tunneling there are far better things to bring up other than that.
Except, slowdowns work for every.single.thing.
- Fail to mind game making chase longer. Slowdowns give you more time to make up for it. You dont need aura.
- Got flashlight saved. Slowdowns give you more time to make up for it. You dont need Light borne
- DS'd. Slowdowns give you more time to make up for it
- Hook sabo, body block and survivor wiggled out. Slowdowns give you more time to make up for it. You dont need Agitation
- Survivors keep pre-drop pallet to extend chase. Slowdowns give you more time to make up for it
The only thing killers need is the time to get 10-12 hooks for 4K. It doesnt matter about killers' skill, good killers take 30sec to get a hook, bad killers take 2min to get a hook. Both of them need more time, nothing else. A newbie killer can 4K Knightlight team if Gen time extened to 3min each. This is why 4 slowdown build is always the strongest build.
Tunneling is needed in game, but the risk is too far lower than rewarding.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657908#Comment_3657908
Noooooooo!
What did he ever do to you :(
tbagged me on the mattress
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656094#Comment_3656094
Looks at survivors giving up just because I marked them as Ghostface
Please don’t take my Ghostface away :(
They should
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656893#Comment_3656893
So we should look into "I'm losing so I'm leaving"?
What is there to look into there? Survivors don't like losing or attempting to make a comeback?
Yeah at a certain point the games basically lost. But that's what's being talked about when we're talking about "the self sacrifice problem" running rampant atm. That's not what's happening most of the time nor do most people have a problem with it in those cases.
How many times in your DBD years of playing, able to complete 3-4 remaining Gens after a teammate is death, or killers having 6 hooks and 1 Gen done?
Is the number at least 50%? For me, its not even 5%.
You dont work a job that having 5% chance of getting paid. Survivors stop doing Gens if the chance to complete 5 Gens is 5%.
There are 2 cases.
- Survivors quit match when down early, playing against killers they dont like.
- Survivors quit match when they have no chance to power Gates.
Assume you're okay with survivors hook suicide / DC in the second case. But not with the first one.
To my pov playing killer, most of the time its toxic survivors fail to "toxic" me, they DC. Which those matches kill count do not affect the kill rate. Survivors suicide on first hook early game happen less me. Could be equal to that teammate getting tunneled at 5 Gens then DC and get 3 kills after that not counted to the kill rate.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656094#Comment_3656094
Yeah we should definitely look into the problem of "I got downed earlier than I liked". Oh, what about "I don't understand this killer and I don't want to learn how to play against them so I'll just give up". Maybe "my team isn't playing how I like, good luck everyone else".
We know the main reasons why they give up. It's childish and entitled in the majority of cases. You also can't "fix" a mindset, the survivors need to do that themselves.
Giving up just because things didn't go your way is already kinda immature, so that's not too surprising that the reasons follow suit.
Everything have gray zones, suicide on first hook when down early is stupid.
But I dont blame teammates suicide on hook if killers get 5-6 hooks or 1 death and only 1-2 Gens done. Killer already win at that point, Gens would never be done, I will just die and go next for my last teammate to get hatch. These cases happen far alot of times, is what Im talking about.
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Yui left the lobby and replaced with Vittorio and his Potential Energy.
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@Tsulan said:
How do you balance around survivors giving up on the slightest inconvenience? Everyone who plays solo, has seen how their teammates directly walk to a killer they don´t like, in an attempt to get hooked/suicide. Best example is Skull Merchant. She didn´t exactly receive a buff, but her kill rate kept climbing.
How do you balance around salty teammates? Thats also the reason, why we still have the dc penalty, even though Bots exist. Every single time the dc penalty was disabled, because of a bug. DCs skyrocket. You could watch a streamer like Otz and see survivors dc every single match.
Look into the reasons why they give up.
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@Akumakaji said:
That's not Bob, that's Devil Dwight!
I think the same, the actual killer is the matter in side, the body is just a host, and the host is a Dwight.
Its skin may be other survivors default skins...
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I’d support a 5th perk spot for people picking something niche but it would just be 5 meta perks
If perks work like Hollow Knight charm, like there are 15 slots for 4 perks. Some takes 5 slots, some 4 and some 3. If you use weak perks, you can use 5 slots, if meta, you can use 3 perks.
3 3 3 3 3
3 4 4 4
3 3 4 5
5 5 5
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I hope the killer's skin is different people, not just different outfit. It has to be, because the killer has so simple outfit, like a normal 9-5 working man. Can be men, women, elders, or even animals.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655576#Comment_3655576
That's not what i'm saying.
The devs have actually stated "win rate" is the goal, but kills are defined as what a win or a loss is.
Survivors win or lose on their own, to them, the game is effectively a 1v1 + 1v1 + 1v1 + 1v1. So if they die, they individually get a loss, if they escape, they get a win, if they escape through hatch, they get a draw.
Killer is a bit different, but getting 0-1 kills is a loss, 2 kills is a draw, 3-4 kills is a win.
So you would THINK that means that you want a 50% kill rate right? Because, if you played 1000 games, and every game was 2 kills 2 escapes, then the killer gets a draw every game. But its not like that for several reasons:
- The 2 survivors that escape that game actually win, they didn't lose.
- If you get 1 kill, then statistically speaking your are more likely to get a second kill.
Because of those facts, 60% actually brings it closer to a 50% "Win" rate as a whole when you look at thousands of matches.
Think of it like the monty hall problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem
From the game show "Lets make a deal" you've heard of, where the host gives you 3 doors, 1 door has like $1000 prize, 1 door has a new car, and another door has nothing. Lets say you pick door number 1. Then the host says are you sure? And you say "Yes" then they show you that behind door number 3, is nothing. So now you know that you either picked the $1000 prize, or the new car. But NOW, the host gives you the option to switch your choice to door number 2. So the question is. Do you switch?
And the reality is you should ALWAYS switch, because when you picked Door number 1, you had a probability of 1 out of 3 of getting the car. But once they showed you what was behind door number 3, you still have a probability of 1 out of 3 of getting the car. But if you SWITCH your choice, now you have 2 out of 3 chance of getting the car, because you already know what's behind one of the doors.
A similar thing holds true here for DBD due to how statistics work.
No, the Devs want 60% kill rate, even if I dont like, I have to accept that survivors should get 40% escape rate.
But many killers, you for example, thinking about win rate, not kill rate. Mentioned 1 kill, is a lost like something that should not count toward to that 60% kill rate because killers lose that match.
So I brought that 1 escape should not count toward 40% escape rate because survivors lose the match.
You're suppose to have 12 kill over 20 survivors. It doesnt matter the win rate, its the acceptable kill rate.
0K, 0K, 4K, 4K, 4K so 3 wins out of 51K, 2K, 3K, 3K, 3K so still 3 wins and 1 tie out of 52K, 2K, 2K, 3K, 3K so there is 0 lose out of 5
Doesnt matter how the result is, the losing rate never beat the win rate, unless some killers count tie as lose, and 3K as lose.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654325#Comment_3654325
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654284#Comment_3654284
It's statistics really.
The way the game is designed is such that. If you get one kill. The probability that you get another kill is significantly higher than just getting 2 kills. And same for 3 and 4 kills.
This basically means that games are usually 4 escapes or 4 (3 kills 1 hatch) kills.
So going for 60/40 actually means either side in theory. Wins half the time.
You also need to remember that 1 kill/3 escape counts as a loss.
Devs want kill rate, not win rate.
1 kill is counted toward the rate. If what you mean 1 kill should not count as a "kill"
Then 1 escape should count as 4 death.
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May be Hooked on you did it with Spirit and gave BHVR the idea...
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Dwight just got unhooked and saw killer coming at him instantly.
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653129#Comment_3653129
What does pig have to do with this game being "survivor sided"? Killers win 60%+ of their matches and you are crying that it's survivor sided.
Seriously, BHVR, take note. Killers will never be happy. 90% kill rate would still be survivor sided...
How do you know that?
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The perk is on the list to get a change in Mar/April. And Adrenaline is strong but fine, so its no way it will get a buff. Which mean it will get a nerf.
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Giving Trapper 2 more traps, giving Huntress 2 more hatchets, giving Clown 2 more bottle
They would give Wraith 2 more wailing bells if he had 4 arms.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652752#Comment_3652752
I mean....then you just tunnel the BU/FtP user, idk if that's anti tunnel or volunteering to be tunneled lol.
Yes, the counter is right there.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650243#Comment_3650243
BU and FTP isn't anti tunnel they're just anti hooking in general considering it's most likely to happen on your first chase when everyone else is healthy.
Still prevent a tunneled survivor to get hooked twice or 3 times in a row. They're anti tunnel. Which also being used on other cases.
Just a proof that the perk combo is stronger than using OTR and DS.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652663#Comment_3652663
I mean, while this is true, it also means that the Killer got a benefit from the Survivor lurking around waiting to use FTP and Buckle Up.
When it got used on me the last time (as I said, I almost never see it), I got a down 10 seconds later. So instead of getting a Down, I got a Down + 1 injured Survivor with a time investment of 10 more seconds AND the fact that the second Survivor did not progress the game.
Sounds more like a win for me than anything else.
Right, unless survivor can always able to run the killer 1min for each health state. But in that case, I would say survivor is out skill killer and would win anyway.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I almost never see it in my games. Regardless of the side I am playing. But I am sure that people jump on the forums when they see it used once in 100 games and claim it is a problem.
I still think the only problem of the perk combo is used in the first chase, or in the end game.
Though in the first chase, having a survivor follow and not do gen. Between 2 Gens done with 2 injured survivor, is equal lose to 3 Gens done and a hook. I may prefer 2 Gens done with 2 injured survivors.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652572#Comment_3652572
Ok if it was the Haste version but it applied to all heals that would actually be pretty good.
Btw though, FTP + WGLF + MFT don't all work together. FTP + WGLF does work (ie. survivor that was picked up gets endurance), but MFT doesn't kick in until after you become injured from FTP and you don't get its endurance. It did work originally, but it was considered a bug since FTP requires you to be healthy and it got removed.
I wasnt talking about the Haste part of MFT, but the Endurance. WGLF gives Endurance to teammate, MFT gives Endurance for you, BU would be Haste for both.
But, give BU haste on all healing would be a better version of Blood pact.
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@anarchy753 said:
Personally I dislike how many buffs are baked into her base kit, with haste, and undetectable, and hindered, and injuries from across the map, and broken.
I don't like chases being influenced by someone else interacting with a drone halfway across the map.
I don't like 75% of the map being covered in drone AOE with zero meaningful counterplay. Breaking them is only temporary, gains nothing, and if she chooses to she can just replace them anyway. With the ease of replacing them, drones should at least break permanently.
Trapper with Lengthened Jaws, Iri stone, Coffee grounds, Trapper gloves, Fastening tools, Dark devotion goes around the whole map to collect traps, and set them around 3 Gens.
Skull merchant press M2 three times: look what Evan needs to mimics a fraction of my power.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652555#Comment_3652555
I agree. I think this is the easiest solution that doesn't impact Buckle Up when used on its own and it also makes sure FTP combined with some other new or reworked healing-related perk is never a problem again.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652547#Comment_3652547
The Haste version wasn't worth it. I tried using it several times back when we had that version of it and since there's no guarantee the killer even slugs at all it just didn't feel worth the perk slot, either the killer wasn't nearby and you didn't need the speed boost or they were right on top of you and it wouldn't do anything to help you get away. It only worked if the killer was close by, but not right there, which didn't happen very often.
I don't think Buckle Up would completely invalidate WGLF if the FTP synergy was removed, since WGLF still has the 100% healing speed buff.
The Haste version is really bad even if paired with FTP. But currently the effect of the combo is quite strong for 2 perk slots. FTP, WGLF, MFT would be more reasonable. BU given Haste would complete the perk combo.
But if BU reverted to Haste. It should apply to all complete healing.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
If you’ve kicked a gen 8 times, that’s a minimum of 40% regression before accounting for any perks or regression time after the kick. How many times do you really think you need to kick 1 gen in a match?
Gens should never be done.
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@CLHL said:
It's always the same, any perk that benefits M1 killers without having an effect on the top tier ends up nerfed. At the end of the day they want these killers to stay weak, they need some party clowns.
Most ironic part is Clown has 58% kill rate.
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Alternate ending.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651760#Comment_3651760
What if Im doing Gen and see Meg with chat wheel “stop that”? You know what I mean.
I'm honestly not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate this a bit further? Are you worried, that you might not understand what the Meg in this scenario would want from you or is it that you are worried, she might spam it?
Could be me doing Gen, Dwight being injured and keep running while Meg wants to heal him.
Meg "Stop that"
Me: what? does she mean I stop doing Gen?
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Home sweet home has the chat wheel and work quite well. But its mostly for general use.
Your chat is directly to a single teammate.
What if Im doing Gen and see Meg with chat wheel “stop that”? You know what I mean.
Chat wheel should show what youre doing, not tell the others, except Help me.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650963#Comment_3650963
Games with a dc are not counted in the stats
This quote alone hurts alot of killers..
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A QoL buff, its a good idea. Balanced landing is already have a huge downside that being really rare to make use of it. Most maps have 2-3 drops at maximum.
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@Seraphor said:
In the past they've used 'High MMR' to reference the top 5% of players.
Now we use "High MMR" to reference the top 95% of players.