C3Tooth
C3Tooth
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650239#Comment_3650239
We've been constantly dropping players, they'd definitely quit if every Killer jumped to 75% Kill Rate because of 1/1000000 comp teams
This is friendly reminder to you.
Stop trying to argue with them.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650282#Comment_3650282
Disable if healed.
*FTPs you to disable your anti-tunnel*
No, being healed should not disable anti-tunnel perks. DS is fine overall, since trying to bodyblock with it will get you slugged out, giving the killer a ton of free pressure and slowdown.
OTR is a bigger problem in that regard, and should be reworked to no longer give Endurance, and instead produce a complete information black-out until conspic action: No grunts of pain, no footsteps, no blood pools, no aura reading, no screams, no killer instinct, and no scratch marks.
I think that in such a scenario, OTR might be the stronger anti-tunnel overall, and completely useless for anything other than preventing tunnelling.
If FTP to healthy, yes. Most of the time you FTP on dying teammate into injured to get use of BU, which is not disable DS. I mean DS disable if you're healthy.
OTR would be powerful if Endurance could stack with basekit BT, but its not. Though it should.
Some survivors can weaponize OTR and DS by body blocking while being healthy to take 3-4 hits. Disable if healthy and losing collision are needed.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650245#Comment_3650245
While I agree we need DS back, I don't think we should have the exact old DS.
I'll even be more controversial and say we should get a basekit DS so we don't need to have so many anti-tunnel perks. The question is how to execute it without making it a weapon like old DS was to bully squads.
Disable if healed.
If injured survivor with DS body block. Thats 1 survivors on the ground not doing anything and another one have to go for pick up.
only 1 survivor on Gen is killers’ advantage.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650221#Comment_3650221
I wonder why people are not combining it since one of the strong points of DS is the ability to use Dead Hard again. I wonder as much as the players who bring self-care by itself without Botani.
Because those perks are bad. While there are stronger option.
BU and FTP, and killers dont like that. Because those perks work
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649989#Comment_3649989
A 60% kill rate means the majority of the matches are only a 2k which isn't a win. It would require 62.5% for killers to win roughly half their matches. (Halfway between a 2k and a 3k). It's not a 60% win rate, it's a 60% kill rate.
And Devs dont balance on "win rate". Then matches that survivors have 2 or less escape should count as lost, which is 40%. I can say to make survivors have 50% win rate (with 3 escapes in 50% of the time) but Im sure killers dont like that.
@glitchboi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650174#Comment_3650174
3% is still a pretty massive difference tbh because it combines data from both chill, regular SWFs who are just playing DBD to socialize with each other, to these comp sweat squads with hyper knowledge on callouts and where everybody is on the map all at once. But I do agree, SWF has the funny rep of being this big scary evil monster when it's something we've all unknowingly stomped with the same effort as stomping a solo queue team.
3% is not a clear number. Given in 10 matches of 30 survivors from Trio. 42.5% means about 13 out of 30 escape. And you dont know if the 10 Solo in those match are escape or not. Say Solo escape 40%. Mean you have this chart, Green for escape and Red for death
Trio have 42.5% doesnt mean killers lose 2.5% killer rate against them. That 42.5% is only applied on 75% of total survivors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650135#Comment_3650135
48% and 40% is huge balance discrepancy. how do you balance killers with such discrepancy? Do you balance every killer around 40% or around 48%. If you balance around 40% then when killer player goes against 48% player, He is going feel like there is no chance to win. If you balance around 48% then killer will be deemed as over performing on average.
Woundcowboy is playing killer's balanced around 40% but is playing against the 48% so in his view, Killer is too weak.
No one know their MMR to assure they're playing against the very small fraction of 48%.
Mandy said high MMR group is only a very small fraction, say 10% of total. And thats split up to Solo, Duo, Trio, and Squad. For 1 thing I can assure that they are not against Squad in the top 10%.
The gaps between a newbie Trapper with Brown addon; and a god Nurse with strong addon, stacking 4 slowdown and tunneling. Is just as great as 4 newbie Solo with yellow perks and Knightligh team stacking meta and items. You cant close the gap between them, on both sides
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650064#Comment_3650064
That's not the case I'm afraid - the high mmr bracket is one of the smallest percentage groups. Majority of players are in the average MMR bracket.
You may not know that OP think they're at that smallest percentage groups, and want that 4 players SWF of 48% escape rate dropped down to 40% to call it balance.
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39% is just average for Solo.
Im not a good survivor, plus not using meta so probably Im below the average.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649256#Comment_3649256
Only killers? Damn i see a lot of survivors complaining about stuff, that has been added since 6.1.0 to help them.
Can we leave it that people don´t appreciate good stuff and always will complain, no matter the role they play?
I didnt tell that only apply to killers.
But for the matter of fact, 6.1.0 was to aim for killer to gain from ~53% (?) to 60% kill rate, the patch means buff killers for one to say "Survivors are strong than before"
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649573#Comment_3649573
So should competent players should suffer because certain players don’t care to learn?
Good students dont complain about math and think its easy, only the bad one.
Competent players would learn and not complaining. You complain too much to be a competent one. Competent killers out there making hundreds win streak with low tier killers.
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We need to go back to pre 6.1.0 for half a year so killers may appreciate what they have now.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648859#Comment_3648859
That first line isn't misleading, it is... partially correct.
If you go through older threads on the Forums, you'll see healing was rarely ever complained about. For a long time Self-Care was a healthy perk and part of the meta: it didn't give you an insane speed but it did allow you to heal yourself. That only changed around Spirit's release, when the healing action going from 12 charges to 16 absolutely murdered the perk. After that you had to have a Med-Kit to heal yourself, which were absolutely fine by themselves.
Inner Strength isn't even worth mentioning, as there aren't complaints about that perk. No one had a problem with healing until it was allowed to reach extreme levels with the original iterations of COH, which seems to have been a perk created with Hexes in mind: a powerful effect which can be removed from the trial. But Boons cannot be permanently destroyed, so that perk was unquestionably overpowered and it had to be changed.
The Med-Kit nerf that followed was too much, I don't think it should have happened.
I think 32sec Self-Care was fine, because it take the same "Gen time" for a teammate to heal (16sec x 2). For me its only murdered after 6.1.0 ; A nerf ontop of the base nerf.
Medkit change should only the charges, the speed should stay 16sec. BUT items survivors bring into the match should spawn an extra chest instead.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648851#Comment_3648851
That first line is shockingly misleading, wow.
I don't remember when survivors were able to heal efficiently and there was outcry on the forums, no. I remember that for years self-healing was pretty overpowered, and people sort of had a sustained general irritation with that which reached a fever pitch when Circle of Healing pushed it into overdrive, is that what you're referring to? I also do not remember when healing got nerfed, but I do remember that medkits and Circle of Healing specifically were nerfed in a very specific way.
The rest of your post is kind of an exaggeration along those lines, though it's at least closer. Some people here do act like they should get to deny unhooks, and some people did complain about the concept of boons rather than just (rightfully) complaining about CoH, so I won't really call you out on those. I just wanted to correct that first part, because it's a doozy.
- Self healing nerfed by 50% in general
- CoH nerf. Use Bond would be better for asking a healing. Its less efficient to leave a Gen to run to CoH range to save 8sec.
- Self care nerfed from 50% to 33% on top of 50% self healing nerf.
- Reassurance, Reactive healing against new Haemorrhage
- Botany make Medkit from chest useless
- Pharmacy change makes it useless, you dont spend a minute to find a chest, unlock it and self healing for 24sec.
- Medkit nerfed in charges (it should)
- Sloppy got a buff
Because its the best to have a teammate healing you, lead to after finish healing, 2 survivors will do the same Gens.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648796#Comment_3648796
Remember when survivors were able to heal efficiently and there was outcry on the forums, so healing got nerfed?
Remember how forum killers are also adamant that they should be allowed to deny unhooks?
Remember how forum killers were so upset over the concept of boon perks?
The only thing that hasn't been touched is chests, which were a waste of time no matter what.
We used to have slower games, but killers weren't happy with that either, so now everything that isn't holding M1 on gens has been nerfed down and out. With survivors being left with nothing but gens, now forum killers are upset that survivors are, in fact, doing gens.
The whole problem here is that 'gens too fast' is defined purely and exclusively by the match outcome. Did the killer get fewer than three kills? 'Gens too fast'. Any time a killer loses? 'Gens too fast'. The only thing that'll make forum killers happy is if the kill rate is at roughly 87.5%, and the only way a survivor can ever escape is via the hatch.
Actually, never mind. Hatch will cop complaints as well, then.
Chests are touched, given how hard items in general being nerfed.
You dont spend 30sec running around finding a chest, 10sec unlock and 24sec self healing from a Medkit. You should spend 2/3 of Gen time to sit on a Gen
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648774#Comment_3648774
Killers can tunnel without any perks, add-ons, or offerings. They can also camp without any perks, add-ons, or offerings.
For one survivor to rush gens, they need a green toolbox, perks to repair the gens faster, and a perk to replenish their item's charges, or increase the item's efficiency.
Genrushing is about completing the generators as quickly as possible, often to the detriment of other objectives. Genrush teams will often ignore someone on hook to smash out gens.
As killers usually tell survivors to do. If your teammate is tunneled/camped. Just do Gens. Then its a problem that survivors leave teammate on hook to do Gens.
@Rulebreaker said:
As much as we agree that "tunneling gens" is a stupid way to put it, there is some merit to the thought process. The survivors are focusing on their objective which is to escape (yes we've previously said in another post that their objective is the gens, but that's a key to their real objective so we called it such) so spreading out to try and gen rush to get the door opened is somewhat equivalent to tunneling out 1 survivor at a time.
Can elaborate later if you want but that's a short version.
I would say "tunneling Gen" means to focus to complete a nearly done Gen. And "Gen rushing" is survivors ignore everything to complete 5 Gens.
Survivors "tunneling Gen" because when complete, that Gen can not be regressed anymore. Tunneling a survivor just a part of the final goal (4K), but its not the main reason why killers tunnel. Its about remove almost half Gen repairing power from survivor side, and that making the work on final goal easier.
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@Nos37 said:
To me, working on a generator from 0% to 100% without stopping (if left uninterrupted) is the equivalent of the killer hooking the survivor, picking them up off the hook manually, placing them back on the hook, and doing it a third time to sacrifice them out of the game.
The killer can kind of do this now, but it takes 120 seconds (150 if Reassurance is used, 180 if the survivor self unhooks and Reassurance is used again, and 214 seconds if they also have Camaraderie). And that's just 1 survivor; there are four. Meanwhile, a gen only takes 80 seconds and three gens can be repaired at once.
Instead of increasing the time needed to repair the gen by a few seconds every 2 or 3 years, how about adding a basekit mechanic that limits a survivor's ability to repair gens? Limit it to 50%. Then they have to run across the map, get a special item / replenish a gague / increase their token counter, and then can do 50% more worth of repairs. Just like the killer has to lose time in chases between hooks.
That is a good math.
As Dwight staying on the hook, and Meg unhooking him at exact 59sec. Twice? Goes the same to Jake unhooking Meg at 59sec, twice, while killer stand in a corner and not chasing Claudette doing Gen? And then finally after 3 other dies, who unhooking Claudette at 59sec? Do Meg and Jake teleport from Gens to hook at 59sec? I have so many questions that need your answers.
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I had a Nurse, 2K and 2E, I and Ada escaped, Ada gave a few tbag and "weak nurse" in post game.
Next match was another UW Nurse and tunneling Ada real hard. I thought "this must be the same Nurse as previous one", and I was right. It was 4K, Nurse satisfied in post game chat, but Ada died first and already leave the game long time ago.
Most players, on both side, forget how much killers can able to stack meta. The next time they meet the toxic survivors again, its not going well for them. The last thing survivors want is making killer stack meta
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I think the most fair change is 4 survivors have repair strength of 3 (25% debuff), and 3 survivors have strength of 4 (33% buff)
Can't take something without giving back another.
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@Crowman said:
The problem is just this punishes the killer for completely their objective.
Survivors wouldn't like it if every gen they got done slowed down their action speed.
Its not the same. The speed/time required for killer to get another hook is still the same. You just have less time to do what you are doing.
The equal comparison is survivors have is they have less time to do Gen, which exactly how it works when a teammate dies.
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Another one.
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@MrMori said:
Could be 60s instead of 80. I don't mind the 3 in one thing, but why is the duration so long? You're not getting tunneled for 80 seconds.
You chase the unhooked survivor, and they down at 61sec. Its tunneling.
It should be disable being healthy, and remove collision. So it cant be used for body block
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By how the game works, killers only need more time to kill, nothing else.
I have played a few match that I didnt get a single hook, and survivors didnt finish a gen after 5min. Thing is, survivors lost alot of pallets, I finished chases alot faster than survivors could finish Gens.
The longer the match, survivors have less pallet, less item, less teammates, less perk. In short, newbie killers could 4K the best survivors team simply by giving long time.
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@concubined said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647580#Comment_3647580
Very strange survivors were asking for a DS buff at all when patch 6.1 or any patch that resulted in a nerf to DS were the best patches launched. Mind you we’re talking about the perk that enraged survivors leading them to cry on socials like twitter and mass uninstalling Dead by Daylight as a protest to restore their beloved perk that they can’t handle life without, I mean talk about a meta shake up right. And mind you that’s the same perk that once have let survivors activate it without being hooked at all causing killers to have to juggle them to hook and stuff like that. DS has had a wild run in this game we don’t need another round of that insanity.
I can tell you tunnel survivors at insanity rate. Its the only reason for killers to complain about DS.
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The AFC mechanic only work if killers FACE camping, while the others keep doing Gens to make it work.
The proxy camping though, killers can simply keep the distance similar to the rescuer, then BAM, the AFC does not exist.
It just make it harder for survivors to recognize its a "Face camping" and waste alot of time to try unhooking, leading Gens cant be completed before the hooked teammate dies.
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YuiRin because why not?
After 3 years of Cursing Yui's Legacy, Yui Shattering Rin's bloodline
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Unexpected to bring some positive to the forum at least : D
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@Shuma said:
fixing tunneling is simple. Pool survivor all 8 survivor hook states together, instead of 2 individually. That would allow all survivors to play a full game.
Then rebalance the game for that. Killers are always wanting to play 8 hook games anyway, according to the forums.
This would also prevent those short worthless games that no one wants to play
You're so wrong, they want the game to be balanced around 12 hooks...Means 4K every match.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646020#Comment_3646020
That's the f-you pallet. Someone had a good laugh putting that one in
Unless you make a great play to able to stun killer with that pallet and Lithe away from the window....from a map that Lithe has almost no use.
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Okay if you want to make a specified builds like me (full healing on Rebecca or full aura on Jeff for examples). I think his perks are good for specified builds, but not to stand alone on its own.
I would buy to create more builds for survivors, but I dont play survivors nowaday.
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@Seraphor said:
I would scale repair speeds with remaining survivors / remaining gens.
For each gen that gets repaired, global repair speeds are reduced by 5%.
For each survivor sacrificed, global repair speeds are increased by 10%.
Exact values of course subject to balance calculations, but the gist of it means if 2 survivors are sacrificed gens fly by [20%] faster, but if 4 gens are repaired before anyone is sacrificed then the last one takes [20%] longer.
This would incentivise killers to keep survivors in the trial longer (sort of like a basekit Thanatophobia) while making gens slower as the game goes on, curbing the benefits of early-game genrushing. If survivors are sacrificed then any remaining survivors have more incentive to attempt repairs instead of giving up, and if 3 gens pop in the first chase the killer knows the remaining gens will be tougher. (The latter could have posed issues for 3 gens, but we have a solution to that now)
It could be displayed on the HUD as some kind of 'Entities Favour' gauge, aiding/penalising the killer for succeeding/failing to inflict enough pain and suffering. The lore/mechanism gor this already exists in the entities judgement in the postgame screen for the killer, this would just bring it into live play.
I also think Toolboxes should get the Medkit treatment, mostly standardising their benefits to repairs (like +10/15/20/25% repair speeds with a fixed amount of charges by toolbox rarity instead of the +50/100% with double the charges we currently have) while keeping their sabotage effects different.
The main idea would be that, but the number is not enough. The way to remove the incentive to tunneling is making 3 survivors stronger than 4.
Make 4 survivors have the strength of 3, and 3 survivors have the strength of 4. Killers would prefer to keep all 4 survivors alive for that debuff.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I really see no reason to dedicate more than 1 perk to gen defense. People rely solely too much on slowdown they forget how to actually chase and use Killer power effectively.
They werent programmed to find and chase survivors.
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@RipperX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645124#Comment_3645124
And yet gens can be done in 25 seconds (or less), healing can be done in 5 seconds or even mid-chase with a layer of endurance, way to many perks can provide speed boost ( and they stack ), there are permanent buff ( WoO, Deja.Vu, and so on ) and a comp SWF can beat almost any killer
So yeah, no it's no better than before, it's just different than before
Devs aim for killers to have 60% kill rate.
You could 50% kill rate against a team with skill of 5. Now you can 60% kill rate against a team with skill of 7. Of course its seem alot harder to most killer.
If Devs really make a Gen 120sec long, average killers can 60% kill rate against teams with skill of 10, which means, the game feel even harder for average killers.
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Would you prefer to go back to pre 6.1.0 patch? Because its seem that currently the game is alot harder for most killers after 6.1.0.
Perhaps it was alot easier for killers to play against
- 5sec DS that activate in end game
- DH for distance
- Circle of healing to heal in 12sec
- minus 50sec extra of Gen
- 16sec of self healing
- 3 health stage Medkits
- old BNP
- survivors get more distance on hit
- killers get no progression lost on Gen kick
- Gen tap
- slower weapon cool down
- no Shadowborne basekit...
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644349#Comment_3644349
Yeah instead focusing on aura perks killers will just run multiple slowdown perks instead. Here a question as a survivor what would you rather have? A killer who run 4 slowdowns or a killer who has maybe one or two slowdown, and a aura perk or two?
I would ask the same for killers.
Are multiple 2nd chances okay?
Are 4 Gen rush perks are okay?
Then why is Ultimate weapon being fine when denying survivors aura perks? But Distortion is not?
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The reason that killers cant find Distortion survivors are:
- Mostly the inability to find survivors without aura perks.
- And because using aura perks, Distortion activated making their scratch marks removed, which make it even harder for them to be found.
Is really that, dont use aura perks and Distortion will be useless.
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@Crowman said:
As long as the killer is rewarded more for killing a survivor than they are for spreading hooks, anything short of making survivors invulnerable would stop tunneling. But making survivors invulnerable would be a far worse situation than tunneling is.
There is no further reward than having easier match with 3v1 from tunneling. I dont get it why most killer think that transparent number MMR is a reward to them.
The only way to making tunneling less efficient than spread hook to make killers stop tunneling.
There are alot of things to work on anti tunneling, if take it to the extreme like BT endurance last forever until healed or do Gens, and even slap DS in basekit along with it (of course with some QoL improve like removing collision, and give BBQ aura on the least hooked survivor after a hook .ect); then by monitoring how killers perform without ability to tunneling, they can buff killers accordingly; but Devs want tunneling to stay in the game.
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Its up to the users, they can recognize teammates get 1-2 hooks and start to take chase. Or not. Selfish perks exist, so does play style.
They only need to make the perks gain token through chase, thats all.
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/404583/how-do-you-counter-any-mean-necessary
Hmm... easy, just Press space button to destroy the pallet.
But that would stop Yui from...grunting.
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@GeneralV said:
Patiently waiting for 2v8.
In all mode, 2v8 is my least favorite. I cant image 2 killers tunnel 1 by 1 and the other survivors rush Gens before their time come.
Someone else suggested this idea, a 5v5 mode. 1 side has 4 survivors and a killer. Objective is to complete their team's Gens and kill other team's survivors.
I can image the scene where a survivor in team A body block another one in team B so killer A can make a kill. Or body block a flashlight save ect..
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All items should be dropped to one single version of Brown by now. So we dont waste BP on pointless Ranger medkit
I think 16sec self healing is fine. But survivors bringing items have to spawn chest to find and search. Currently spending time to find chest, spending time to unlock, spend another 24sec for a single self healing is overkill.
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If I see Yui while playing Spirit, Yui has a guarantee escape.
(a Ghibli iconic scene)
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@Unam said:
Simple solution to tunneling:
Make not tunneling more rewarding than tunneling.
Right now, there is Grim Embrace and DMS, even with nerfed stbfl Killers are going out of their way to hook 4 individual survivors and purposefully ignore the obsession.
Yet countless thread about how unbalanced and unfair those perks are.
So you dont tunnel and survivors dont like it, you tunnel they dont like it either...
You can nerf and punish tunneling all you want, there is simply not a single strategy in the game that is more efficient than getting one person out asap and robbing the survs of 25% efficiency across the board.
People will always play versus games competitively. Even goofy and silly games like fall guys get completely min/maxed.
Its human nature that ppl want to win.
Encourage not tunneling. Basekit grim embrace, 10% repair debuff if 4 survs are 1 hooked, whatever.
Nerfing tunneling or implementing basekit bandaid "anti tunneling" buffs for survivors wont change anything.
Give killers something stronger than tunneling so they dont tunnel.
Is equal to having Gates powered by default so survivors do totems and chests.
Please give me free win so I will play nicer.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643395#Comment_3643395
maybe, but being eliminated early is a big cost if that tactic doesn't pay off.
When does tunneling not pay off?
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@H2H said:
whoa whoa whoa I was assured by survivor mains this would never happen????
Or perhaps Jolt is so powerful that able to regress multiple Gens 8 times in a match.
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In anniversary event, that day I played 8 matches, that 6 of them played fair, and survivors had a fair escape chance.
I mistake that playing survivors were alot better. But its not, mostly because killers didnt play like their life ended if its not 4K.
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I swear I drawn every possible DBD situations in the past
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I dont think MMR is a problem.
Killers dodging lobbies does
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@Adaez said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642821#Comment_3642821
If you ever played killer you'll know that getting a survivor out is the best way to stop genrush and out pressure survivors, just because that was the case then doesn't mean it's not the best tactic to win as killer in general, most killers tunnel to stop genrush, you can't deny that.
So...is tunneling the best tactic or not?
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@jayoshi said:
Yeah, I like the idea of it - but it really punishes killers for playing the game normally with the perks they bring. Survivors can bring as many fast gen builds and toolbox, and not be punished for it - and they shouldn't be punished. That's what those perks and items are for. If they really want to solve 3 gens this way, then when there are 3 gens left - that's when the "regress a gen 8 times it gets blocked" should be activated and only then. Before the 3 gens are left, it should be back to how it was and allowing survivors to gen tap. Right now killers are being punished for doing one of their objectives and it shouldn't be that way.
Bringing 4 Gens perk as survivors can be an easy target.
If you would like to compare, survivors cant use 4 exhaustion perks, they dont stack. Use 4 slowdowns do, and should be limited. The fact you're able to kick a Gen 8 times to regress 40% not counting the regression and slowdown perk should be on your advantage.
