BrendanLeeT
BrendanLeeT
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@Shredder9000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1423365#Comment_1423365
Yeah, they do. Just rare cuz most games don't enable it. All the major games with crossplay do, though.
A lot of PC players actually do play with controller and it gives them no disadvantage at all. Arguably the only disadvantages are when you play killer as Huntress, Deathslinger, or nurse. Survivors have no disadvantages at all when using controller or very little it's not noticeable.
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@FearedbytheGods said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117225#Comment_1117225
That's........ not really arguing against my point, its making the same point, just from a different angle. You say don't make opinions, I say its more nuanced, ultimately we can only infer based on what evidence we have.
So to be specific, I've provided more than you have.
Do you agree that the Nurse is the weakest killer in the game because going by statistics she is.
If you don't agree with me then why? You're going by statistics and sticking with them and you don't believe the Nurse is the weakest killer then you are just picking and choosing statistics to try and backup your point.
I'm generally curious because no one ever replies to me when they throw the kill rates of killers out there to back up their point but the moment I ask if the nurse is the weakest kill because statistically is she they don't reply because if they disagree they are admitting the data isn't accurate and lets be honest no one will agree she is the weakest killer.
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@Coder said:
Hear me out. If you think Deathslinger's power is strong enough to justify 110% movement speed, you've never faced a God Tier Hillbilly. And I'm not saying a "good" hillbilly, I'm pretty sure you face those every day, I mean God Tier, those guys that can do insane curves that feel like he's hacking somehow and who can end chases in 3 seconds. You died the moment you joined the lobby. Well used, hillbilly's power is ridiculously and game breaking strong.
I don't see Deathslinger's power being that strong to justify 110% movement speed. Even Oni is stronger and he's 115%.
The only killers I think justify the 110% speed are Huntress and Spirit (not even hag), but Spirit because it's broken (see this video by OH TOFU). Deathslinger's power is not that strong or broken, I don't think 110% speed is justified.
So what I'm gathering from this is only god tier billies break the game, right? They are not common to run into and if someone took the time to master Billy's full potential then why can't they be strong? I face a lot of Billy but it's very rare that I run into a god Billy who can curve and everything.
Correct me if I'm wrong though :)
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Sadly I'm working overtime today :( Luckily though tomorrow I have an afternoon shift so I can stay up later tonight trying out the new changes
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068381#Comment_1068381
Bad data is better than no data
Do you agree that the Nurse is the weakest killer in the game because going by statistics she is.
If you don't agree with me then why? You're going by statistics and sticking with them and you don't believe the Nurse is the weakest killer then you are just picking and choosing statistics to try and backup your point.
I'm generally curious because no one ever replies to me when they throw the kill rates of killers out there to back up their point but the moment I ask if the nurse is the weakest kill because statistically is she they don't reply because if they disagree they are admitting the data isn't accurate and lets be honest no one will agree she is the weakest killer.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1056844#Comment_1056844
If you're tunnelling someone or camping someone what should the other survivors do??? Stand still and wait for you to be ready to deal with them? Place themselves under a hook to try and tempt you away from the tunnelling victim?
Sit on gens but miss every skill check so it never progresses very far? It makes no sense for you to moan about survivors doing gens when that is their task and if you're camping they can't unhook and if they discover you tunnel the ######### out of someone when they do unhook them, then they may as well leave that person on the hook anyway.
It isn't the most efficient way of doing things at all. That injured survivor is off the hook and let's say the unhooker was fully healthy and had Borrowed time. You go after the unhooked, gets hit that's borrowed time done and a speed boost, then you carry on chasing them, in the meantime that unhooker has nothing else to do other than pop themselves on a gen.
Whereas if you had done things the other way, the unhooked will go and get healed or heal themselves which uses up time off a gen whilst you deal with the unhooker. So for potentially 30 seconds you have at least 2 people off gens.
Tunnelling and camping only happens because killers are desperate not only for a kill but to ruin the game for someone. It even happens when no gens have been completed so what is the justification there?
You're making excuses for behaviours that drive people away from playing survivor. Whilst criticising the survivors for doing what they are tasked with in the game. It makes zero sense. Gen rushing isn't a real thing. If you're not juggling survivors they aren't just going to stand still.
If you're tunnelling someone or camping someone what should the other survivors do??? Stand still and wait for you to be ready to deal with them? Place themselves under a hook to try and tempt you away from the tunnelling victim?
That's why I said in my reply, if you read it again, that killers cannot complain about it if they camp or focus on ONE survivor entirely.
Sit on gens but miss every skill check so it never progresses very far? It makes no sense for you to moan about survivors doing gens when that is their task and if you're camping they can't unhook and if they discover you tunnel the [BAD WORD] out of someone when they do unhook them, then they may as well leave that person on the hook anyway.
It makes no sense for you to moan about killers trying a tactic to kill someone when that is their task and if you're "gen rushing" and the killer will lose then they might as well secure that kill anyway.
It isn't the most efficient way of doing things at all. That injured survivor is off the hook and let's say the unhooker was fully healthy and had Borrowed time. You go after the unhooked, gets hit that's borrowed time done and a speed boost, then you carry on chasing them, in the meantime that unhooker has nothing else to do other than pop themselves on a gen.
If someone just saves right in front of you WITHOUT BT then of course it's the most efficient way, you get a free down and another hook state removed from them. Hitting someone ONCE is faster than having to hit them twice. Obviously if the rescuer has BT then it's more beneficial to go after the rescuer because it would be a waste of time to tunnel.
Whereas if you had done things the other way, the unhooked will go and get healed or heal themselves which uses up time off a gen whilst you deal with the unhooker. So for potentially 30 seconds you have at least 2 people off gens.
Since Legion came out, the no heal meta has only become more common. Survivors realized that it's much faster to just stay injured, run Adrenaine and complete gens as fast as possible. I'd always have at least 1 or 2 people that will stay injured in my game ONLY focused on generators.
Tunnelling and camping only happens because killers are desperate not only for a kill but to ruin the game for someone. It even happens when no gens have been completed so what is the justification there?
Killers can tunnel whenever they please BUT I don't like that sort of play style so I only camp and tunnel when it's required. You rush gens and now it's end game? Alright I'll camp to secure my one kill or just trade hooks giving me more points. If you wanna be that one annoying survivor spam vaulting, which causes a bunch of loud sounds so no I cannot just ignore it then you're being camped to death, etc.
Also why is it okay for survivors to tunnel gens? Yes I said that, when you chase them off the gen they hop right back onto the same one over and over again because it's almost complete. When the killer sees an injured survivor he goes right after him because he's a one hit down it's logical. So if a killer chasing an injured survivor is tunneling then why is it alright for the survivors to focus on one gen until it's completed?
You're making excuses for behaviours that drive people away from playing survivor. Whilst criticising the survivors for doing what they are tasked with in the game. It makes zero sense. Gen rushing isn't a real thing. If you're not juggling survivors they aren't just going to stand still.
Alright so lets use tunneling as an example, usually happens because the unhooked survivor somewhat stays nearby the hook so when the killer returns they are spotted. "Gen rushing" is also behavior driving killers away, have you seen the amount of killers complaining about games ending too fast? Man even survivors are complaining because they sit in 5+ minute queues to have 5 minute games and they say it's not worth it. You're criticizing killer for the methods they use to kill, you know which they are tasked with in the game, which also makes zero sense. Tunneling isn't a real thing, if you're ignoring EVERYTHING so totems, healing, teamwork, unhooks, chests, etc and ONLY focusing on gens while injured then don't complain because you're objectively trying to end the game fast and killers tunneling are trying to sacrifice a survivor faster. If the killer ONLY sees the unhooked survivor at the hook then he isn't just going to walk away.
If it's alright for survivors to end games fast which is unfun for killer by the way then there is no issue with killers sacrificing a survivor too fast. Gen rush is unfun for killers so why do you complain about tunneling because it's unfun for you but then justify gen rush because it's the survivors objective?
As for toolboxes and add ons. Why is it OKnfor a killer to be using iridescent add ons and iridescent offerings but survivors shouldn't?
It's 1v4 so of course the killer needs to equip addons to make up for the 4 people he is going against. It makes no logical sense for the survivor's perks/addons to be on-par with killer because at that point the game IS heavily flawed because you're supposed to work as a team, not be able to 1v1 a killer with the same strength because there are 4 of you.
You do realise that you can have fun in a game you don't win? You don't have to kill everyone every single time, just like as a survivor you don't have to escape to have fun.
Yes I do and I've not complained about losing. If I lost due to a good team I compliment them in the end game chat but what isn't fun is losing because the odds are heavily stacked against you. 4 toolboxes whilst playing as Clown on Temple? Good luck winning that game and if you do then the survivors are not that great.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1051536#Comment_1051536
Except Camping and Tunnelling are things that the killer specifically chooses to do to ruin the survivor's experience.
Working gens is what the survivors are tasked with doing, they don't really have a choice not to because that is their objective.
Standing next to a hook is a choice for a killer. Ignoring the unhooker and fixating on the unhooked is a choice the killer makes. Both of these actions result in other people focussing on generators and then the killer cries gen rush.
I don't main either side, I play both. I think a lot of the moaning from both sides would be reduced if people didn't fixate on playing one half of the game and moaning about the opposite half.
Except Camping and Tunneling are things that the killer specifically chooses to do to ruin the survivor's experience.
Oh and guess what? It's the survivors choice to do the following:
- Run toolboxes to reduce gen time even more
- Burn maps that are heavily stacked against the killer, especially larger ones
- Use extremely strong loops to make the chase go on for far too long
- Separate entirely making gen pop even faster
- Ignoring totems, chests, refusing to heal and only going for the save on the last second to only focus purely on gens to end the game as fast as possible..
If you're going to say that separating is just survivors being efficient with their objective then same goes for tunneling. It's more efficient to target the weaker player to sacrifice him sooner.
Working gens is what the survivors are tasked with doing, they don't really have a choice not to because that is their objective.
Standing next to a hook is a choice for a killer. Ignoring the unhooker and fixating on the unhooked is a choice the killer makes. Both of these actions result in other people focussing on generators and then the killer cries gen rush.
The killer's job is to you know.. kill. It's literally in the name. Yes killers have a choice to camp or tunnel but survivors also have the choice to at least give the killer a chance without stacking all of the odds against them, just like how tunneling stacks the odds against the survivors because it's much easier to juggle 3 survivors than it is to juggle 4.
I'll admit if killers camp and give way too much free time for survivors do gens then they have no rights to complain at all.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054360#Comment_1054360
They released these stats not that long ago, even disregarding all games where someone DC'd. They were posted right here on the forums. The kill rate was something like 60% even if you only count all games where all the survivors played until they escaped or died.
If you counted the DC games that number would be astronomically more in favor of killers. Killers just like being able to walk in and 4k the majority of their games without effort.
Since you like to preach stats a whole bunch and say the staffs are correct, Nurse is the weakest killer in the game, right? If you don't believe that then why? You believe the kill rates at 70+% so why not believe the nurse kill rates?
If you're going to say because a lot of babies play nurse then ding ding ding! The amount of boosted survivors scattered across the board inflate kill rates heavily, the amount of time I only had a 2k at end game and then went to a 4k due to over altruistic survivors is unreal.
Besides with the Ruin nerf I'm going to assume that the kill rates will have dropped.
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@Hamtroll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054977#Comment_1054977
I agree, an optimal survivor team will usually roll the killer. But in many cases, your team is going to get stomped and there is little or nothing you can do about it. That's why I don't bring adrenaline. If the killer identifies you as a strong looper, they will leave you for last.
DH for distance is garbage. Lithe is much more flexible, won't leave you exhausted on the ground (like dedicated dead hards so often do), and you get like 5x the distance of dead hard. Sprint burst is significantly more powerful than both, and with fixated the penalty of having to walk around all the time to save it is negated.
Dead hard will not save you from the 1 shot killers, and there are plenty of those to go around.
It is a powerful perk, don't get me wrong. But if you want to stay safe at all times, the best way to do so is avoiding the hits to begin with.
And can you really blame the survivors for trying to save their team? In a lot of cases, I am sad a garbage killer is even getting a single kill because of NOED, and I want to save them. But there will be almost nothing I can do.
Other times, I will watch my team die and don't care, because they played so poorly.
I agree, an optimal survivor team will usually roll the killer. But in many cases, your team is going to get stomped and there is little or nothing you can do about it. That's why I don't bring adrenaline. If the killer identifies you as a strong looper, they will leave you for last.
Fair enough but like I said the devs really need to bridge the gap. To you I probably sound like a biased killer main but I do play my fair share of survivor too and due to being in the UK quite a few of my friends are not online who are based in the US so I do play a lot of solo survivor. I do completely understand the frustrations they go through but that's due to the team being bad and not NOED being OP.
DH for distance is garbage. Lithe is much more flexible, won't leave you exhausted on the ground (like dedicated dead hards so often do), and you get like 5x the distance of dead hard. Sprint burst is significantly more powerful than both, and with fixated the penalty of having to walk around all the time to save it is negated.
If you get exhausted then you didn't use DH for distance correctly or you was way too late in activating the perk meaning that you mainly used it to avoid a hit, which is indeed garbage. I use DH myself and I have many clips of myself using it to avoid a hit due to no structures being nearby and getting downed while exhausted. But do you know what? I used the perk wrong and that was my fault so I'm not going to call the perk weak.
Lithe and SB does get you way more distance but if you're injured NEAR a window you will still go down. With DH for distance, you will make it to that loop so that's why it's powerful. DH definitely doesn't need a nerf but it is a strong perk.
Dead hard will not save you from the 1 shot killers, and there are plenty of those to go around.
You are correct and that's why I don't agree with nerfing it because it's way too situational. Against 1 hit killers SB or Lithe are definitely stronger.
And can you really blame the survivors for trying to save their team? In a lot of cases, I am sad a garbage killer is even getting a single kill because of NOED, and I want to save them. But there will be almost nothing I can do.
I mean can you blame the killer for trying to secure at least one kill? Honestly with the speed the gens can be completed it I can't blame them entirely. The apply pressure non-sense doesn't work on low mobility killers on large maps when survivors spread apart. I know you said against optimal survivors the killer will get rolled but this is why killers run NOED. It's not that they can't get hooks but instead it's just the game MIGHT be heavily stacked against them.
It's like BT, you run it to stop killers from camping because it's unfun or unfair and gives them a chance. NOED is an insurance against bad game design and until problematic maps are reworked I can't really blame them for using it. Killers want to have a fun game but there is nothing they can do when they are up against 4 toolboxes on large maps.
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@Hamtroll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054936#Comment_1054936
You are literally complaining about fire up. I could stop arguing with you here if I wanted.
Dead hard has plenty of counters, the main one being assuming that every survivor has it until you know they don't. If a survivor is staring behind them while you are chasing them, they probably have dead hard. It's about as simple as that. Dead hard for distance is mediocre. You get way more distance with sprint burst or lithe.
Adrenaline is good, but as a solo Q, you will not be making it to endgame in a lot of cases. It is even rarer you will make it to endgame and having the killer chasing you, which is the only place it really shines. I don't use it because of that. And even then, it will only get you to the next safe loop. You still have to get all the way to exit gate, and with NOED? You won't.
The killer playing with 3 perks all game is irrelevant with NOED, because you can seriously crutch on it for extra kills. You can facecamp 1 person the entire game and still 3k or 4k purely because of NOED, it is that powerful. It makes me sad that the dev's think it is OK in a competitive environment. But I guess that's why all the other super overpowered items in the game exist, because this is a casual game and they don't care about balance.
Seriously do you even read my replies? I said those perks don't need nerfs but I used Fire Up as an example because it requires no input for the killer to gain rewards. Fire Up is weak and needs buffs but I used it as an example to counter your point about NOED being busted because it requires no skill. I'm trying to open your eyes by saying Fire Up requires no input so is that busted? Im not going to bother to discuss with someone who half arses their reply without even thoroughly reading through my own.
Dead hard has plenty of counters, the main one being assuming that every survivor has it until you know they don't. If a survivor is staring behind them while you are chasing them, they probably have dead hard. It's about as simple as that. Dead hard for distance is mediocre. You get way more distance with sprint burst or lithe.
Like I said using DH to avoid a hit is garbage so I have no clue why you are bringing up that counter. Yes it's super easy to counter DH when used to avoid a hit there is no denying that and if people say it's overpowered due to that alone then they are just not as good as they think they are. Meanwhile DH for distance has literally no counter minus a few killer's power like Plague's red vomit or if timed correctly then the Hatchet. Sprint burst you can't choose to activate it whenever you want unless you 99% it and Lithe requires you to get to a window. Yes they make more distance than DH but what if you're injured? You will get downed before they go into effect, DH for distance literally makes you completely safe.
Adrenaline is good, but as a solo Q, you will not be making it to endgame in a lot of cases. It is even rarer you will make it to endgame and having the killer chasing you, which is the only place it really shines. I don't use it because of that. And even then, it will only get you to the next safe loop. You still have to get all the way to exit gate, and with NOED? You won't.
I see you bringing solo queue into this a lot and yes it's much harder to play survivor solo but it's still quite easy to play as long as you don't have potatos on your team. Throughout all of my Rift challenges, I just watched a movie on my second monitor while playing solo survivor and I could still escape with a breeze. You're making it out like solo survivors escape in like 1/20 matches which if they do then maybe they are not as good as they think they are?
The NOED speed boost is strong and you're not likely to make it to an exit gate but the killer can only chase 1 person at a time. What is stopping the other survivors from cleansing the totem? At that point it's the stupidity of the survivors getting the team killed and not the perk itself.
The killer playing with 3 perks all game is irrelevant with NOED, because you can seriously crutch on it for extra kills. You can facecamp 1 person the entire game and still 3k or 4k purely because of NOED, it is that powerful. It makes me sad that the dev's think it is OK in a competitive environment. But I guess that's why all the other super overpowered items in the game exist, because this is a casual game and they don't care about balance.
How is it different from a strong survivor perk? I can't count how many times we got a 4 man escape because one person rescues the survivor from the hook activating BT and then the BT user just bodyblocks the rescuer because they can afford to practically making the killer helpless. Even injuring the unhooker is not enough because the BT user can tank a hit and then with another stacked second chance perk get out of jail for free again.
If that's not powerful guaranteeing an escape then how is guaranteeing a kill too powerful? Of course this wont work if you're on the completely opposite side of the map but most of the time survivors will try and get hooked near an exit gate just for this to work. Even still with the wipe animation and the sprint burst from getting injured you can still probably make it to the gate.
If the killer facecamps all game and ends up with a 4k due to NOED then the survivors are completely stupid and didn't cut their losses and instead fed the killer. That's on the survivors behalf and not a devs issue. That's like myself complaining about getting hit with DS after tunneling, that is MY fault and not the devs fault for making an OP perk.
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@Hamtroll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054915#Comment_1054915
Yeah, you deserve those NOED kills for sure. When you can barely eek out a single kill the entire match, and then get another 1-2 with NOED, it is because of your skill. As I said in the previous post, there is literally no way for a solo Q to make sure all 5 totems are gone. If there is NOED, there is NOED. You just take it up arse and move onto the next game in 99% of cases.
That's why I wish weakish perks like Small Game had a totem counter or at least a way for survivors to know how many totems are remaining. The devs really need to bridge the gap between solos and SWFs because solos get hit hard and there is no denying that.
There are few perks that give rewards that people didn't earn, here are a few:
- Dead hard: Yes it's garbage when used to avoid a hit but using it for distance is the huge strength of this perk. Not going to make it to a pallet or window? Press E boom you've not made it to a loop you wouldn't have gotten to and depending on the strength of the loop or safety of the pallet, extend the chase way longer than it should be
- Adrenaline: Literally no risky or special plays required. Do your objective as normal and get a free insta heal, a 5 second sprint burst which is 2 seconds more than the perk sprint burst, denying the killer of a potential kill and removing all of their pressure entirely.
- NOED: Killer equips a perk which has no requirements but survivors cleansing totems, giving him Bloodlust permanently and insta downing capabilities
- Fire up: Literally giving the killer more strength as the game progresses with no requirements for the the killer to do anything.
Do any of these deserve nerfs? Probably not but they are all perks in the game that gives you a reward for doing nothing.
Could I also bring up how contradicting you are (if that is the right word)? I quote this from you:
With BT you are giving up a valuable perk slot in order to save your team from campers, it should be really strong. Otherwise, I could have a selfish perk in it's place.
With NOED equipped the killer is handicapped running on 3 perks for the entire game, giving up a valuable perk slot in order to help them in the end game. Shouldn't that be really strong because like BT they are giving up a valuable perk slot which might not even come into play?
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@Hamtroll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054875#Comment_1054875
I am killer, let me play "strategically" by letting all 5 gens get done. Then I get a free bloodlust and instadown on anyone I see. So much strategy.
I love how you are taking my reply completely out of context too, I said the killer is playing strategically by switching targets with Spirit Fury onto an clueless survivor, not once did I say using NOED was strategic. If you want to have proper discussions then read replies and do not take them out of context otherwise it makes you either look extremely ignorant or biased. Now lets move onto my main reply to you.
The best counter is to cleanse the totem. Most killers with NOED just camp the survivor on the hook to secure a kill, what's stopping you from roaming around the map cleansing the totem and then saving? I usually play in a 3 man SWF group when I do play survivor and if NOED is active and one of us gets hooked then first we get 2 people on gates and before going for the save look for NOED. If the person dies due to us not finding it in time then we cut our losses and leave, making the killer end up with 1 kill or 2 at the very most. I've even done this in a 2 man with 2 randoms and it works.
I've never seen a killer AFK all game just so they can NOED people unless they are intentionally depipping or just wanting to trigger people. At that point at least 3 of you can escape and it's up the the discretion of the survivors to leave, look for the totem or to just feed the killer.
When I USED to use NOED back in 2018, it usually only got me 1 or 2 kills at the very most before it got cleansed so unless survivors have just gotten lazy over the years or just became more potato feeding themselves to the killer then I have no clue about the amount of complaints.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054766#Comment_1054766
You have a very strange way to define game changer. The game is designed for exhaustion perks. And Adrenalin already has the way of work for reward or do you thing 5gens pop up with no effort?
I'm going to quote a guy who made a comment about Adrenaline:
You don't make any risky or special plays for Adrenaline, you just play the game normally and do your normal objective. Would it be fair if the killer gets 6 hooks then a random survivor dies after the 5th gen simply by using a perk? If not then why? Adrenaline literally rewards you for playing your objective so why couldn't a killer perk not do the same?
In my opinion Adrenaline does way too much for survivors just by playing normally:
- Free heal
- Free sprint burst
- Many people don't notice this but Sprint Burst is a 3 second sprint and Adrenaline is a 5 second sprint that's 2 seconds of extra movement speed, which may not seem like a lot but it is quite a bit.
- Bypasses exhaustion
- Wakes you up (which was more detrimental to old Freddy to be fair)
If the killer plays well and slugs 2 or more people and someone completes the 5th gen, that's ALL of the killers pressure just gone for playing normally. Adrenaline doesn't reward JUST the survivors for completing their objective, what about the Meg heads that just chase the killer all game body blocking, t-bagging, spam vaulting and just generally trying to bully? What about when the killer closes the hatch? What about when you win a chase and during your weapon wipe animation Adrenaline just picks them up negating that entire chase? In all of those situations minus the meg head one the survivor has failed but Adrenaline saved them.
Don't get me wrong I can see your point of view entirely but the killer's objective is to kill. They haven't failed anything until the survivors leave through the exit gates. If the killer has already lost then why does it not just automatically send you to the tally screen? The match is still on-going and the killer definitely can change the game around.
I wont deny that NOED is a game changer at all because it can be. Sure if the survivors are smart then they wont feed the killer but against below average survivors it can change the entire game. But so does Adrenaline, can't tell you how many times that ONE single perk has saved me. The biggest power is the full heal after getting unhooked, practically handing you the escape on a silver platter.
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@Hamtroll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054704#Comment_1054704
If it is a SWF running 4x second chance perks, sure, they are bad. But solo Q? Nah, you can't even rely on your team to save you or not kill themselves on their first hook. Everything is fair game for solo Q survivors.
Bamboozle is the best killer perk in the game next to whispers and corrupt intervention. Any M1 killer can crutch on it hard. It shuts down almost every loop in the game if you use it well (aka vault the jungle gym window).
And you can't counter spirit fury if it is used correctly, building it up on one person and then swapping targets and hitting another person with it.
And you can't counter spirit fury if it is used correctly, building it up on one person and then swapping targets and hitting another person with it.
Alright, then the killer is playing strategically, what's the problem? They are thinking ahead of the game in making Spirit Fury work but once survivors catch on it's not necessarily hard to counter. Sure it will definitely work when the survivor doesn't expect it but if the killer uses that tactic on them once and they keep falling for it then it's the survivors being stupid and not the killer.
That's the same with other perks too, like if I'm hit with a quick and quiet and not expecting it then I might lose the survivor for a few seconds and by the time when I noticed what has happened they would have made distance but once they hit me with it then I will expect it later on.
Bamboozle is the best killer perk in the game next to whispers and corrupt intervention. Any M1 killer can crutch on it hard. It shuts down almost every loop in the game if you use it well (aka vault the jungle gym window).
I wont deny that Bamboozle is extremely good at blocking off Jungle Gyms and the only counter is to move on, which most of the time allows the killer to get a hit. It's powerful at jungle gyms but once it gets to structural loops then it's literally pointless. It's also pointless if jungle gyms are connected (looking at you Ormond) or if you get bad map RNG because it blocks only one window at a time, which if it blocks more then it will be too powerful. Or something else I've seen more, jungle gym next to shack, loop shack -> window blocked -> loop jungle gym -> window blocks -> loop shack. Bloodlust will kick in but still Bamboozle didn't really help much there.
Honestly I wont argue about the tier of Bamboozle because everyone has varying opinions on their favorite perk. If you love that perk then that's fine by me but in my opinion it's nowhere near as powerful to make it worthwhile using a whole lot. But then again everyone has different opinions on what perks are strong for them so I wont argue about it.
If it is a SWF running 4x second chance perks, sure, they are bad. But solo Q? Nah, you can't even rely on your team to save you or not kill themselves on their first hook. Everything is fair game for solo Q survivors.
Well at least you're not in-denial about survivors being bad if they stack on a bunch of second chance perks so I appreciate you for that. But you still need to realize that it's a 1v4 the killer is supposed to be stronger. In regards to perks it's 4 perks vs 16 perks so it would make sense. Although I hate using videos as an example, SpaceCoconut made a video on "why survivor is easy mode" and the main point that sticks out is that the time pressure is on the survivors the survivor control the flow of the game. If they stick onto gens they will most likely win the game because the killer can only chase 1 survivor at a time. If the survivors spread out on gens on completely different sides of the map then it's game over but that does require competent team mates.
The logic that I don't understand is it's fine for solos to run crutch perks but not killers. It's a team based game so if you team plays poorly then why does that entitle people to run crutches but still call the killer bad for running them? I understand the frustrations of solo, trust me I do, but I don't like the logic of "Solos can run as many crutches as they want but killers are not allowed to!!!". Killers with no mobility are already at a disadvantage on a LOT of maps so why can't they also run crutch perks?
In comparison to you comparing SWF to solo:
If Billy runs crutches then he's bad but it's fine for clown to because you can't rely on your power alone with no mobility to get kills before 3 gens pop in a single chase. Everything is fair game for clown.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say? It's not fair to say one side can run crutches but the other side is terrible and relies on them to win.
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@Hamtroll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054682#Comment_1054682
Killers can toss on spirit nooby or bamboozle and become completely unloopable. You can also drop bad chases instead of mindlessly tunneling one guy for the entire match through every pallet while the gens get pounded. But hey, what do I know?
Alright but like I said if all 4 survivors are optimal then what stops them all from running the strong loops? Wretched Shop, Iron works, Disturb ward are all strong loops survivors can easily make it to, especially if they get injured and the small speed burst.
Spirit Fury can be easily countered by I don't know... dropping the pallet early and not being so greedy at loops?
Bamboozle isn't even that good and if a structure like Wretched Shop and Disturb ward has multiple windows which they do then that perk is completely useless. I hardly ever see killers running that perk and the last time someone did was when they played Vault master Myers which was 3 months ago approximately.
If you're going to call killers noobs for running crutch perks then I'm sorry but when 4 survivors can all stack second chance perks then they are equally as bad.
Lastly I never mentioned tunneling so I have no clue to why you brought it up. For me personally I chase for around 25 seconds and if nothing comes out of it such as breaking a few pallets or injuring them then I drop the chase. Even destroying a few pallets is good enough for me because I can chase a new survivors with pallets gone too.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054655#Comment_1054655
What I mean is when you hit a survivor with M1 while they are healthy usually, you will get about 40-45% of the meter, but if the survivor is exposed and you M1 them you get no charges while they are healthy
When exposed they go from healthy -> dying and when you hit someone regularly they go from healthy -> injured giving oni his power.
Not sure if it's intended but with the way oni is designed then yes you wont get your power when you 1 hit someone
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@Hamtroll said:
Nah, NOED is terrible. Nothing like not taking a hit the entire game just to get nailed with NOED and facecamped to dead on your first hook.
It is for noobs mainly.
Survivors I can see running crutches because you can't really rely on your team that much, and need some insurance in case they are potatoes.
Killer? You only have yourself to blame for failure. Bringing NOED is like saying you expect to lose. And only bad killers go into a match expecting to lose.
/thread
Survivors I can see running crutches because you can't really rely on your team that much, and need some insurance in case they are potatoes.
Well killers cannot rely on the broken maps and stupid structures, and need some insurance against optimal survivors and the map in case the odds are heavily stacked against them.
Again there are 4 survivors and 1 killer, if survivors run crutch perks who commonly play in SWF groups then they have no rights to complain about NoED. If they are going to run DS, DH, Adrenaline and BT x4 with toolboxes then they seriously cannot complain about NOED.
It's not really fair to justify bad teammates as a means to run crutch perks but if the killer runs them then they are bad. There are a lot of things that can heavily stack against the killer too such as strong loops, optimal survivors, and toolboxes to name a few. Both sides have odds stacked against them and the game is definitely not in the killers hands.
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@skoopydoo said:
And yet all killers have kill rates over 60. So I guess most of the time killers aren't making any mistakes.
If you want to always use stats to back up your statement and only statistics then Nurse is the weakest killer in the game. If you disagree then you're agreeing that the statistics don't take into account variables such as a baby nurse, someone without experience, etc.
This applies to kill rates too, there have been so many games were my kills just went from 1 -> 4 due to over altruistic survivors that just fed me the win. If they took stats for the kill rate WHEN the 5th gen pops I'd think we will have a completely different number.
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People do it to try and get a reaction out of you and to rub their win in your face. It's the same people that complain if the killer camps but if the killer plays toxic then they are salty but if that survivor plays toxic it's perfectly fine.It's also the type of people to usually DC if they are downed quickly and yeah they're generally just toxic and if they continue their toxicity in the end game chat then I just feel bad for them because if they have that much of an ego then it's so easy to destroy it.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037185#Comment_1037185
I agree, I’m just used to everyone here doing that already.
You cant discuss anything about a killer without people jumping down your throat putting you in a box and saying you’re part of some campaign group looking to get killers nerfed into the ground :(
I try to be as least biased as I can but I'm tired of people jumping on me for having varying opinions on the health of the game. It's like if we all share the same mindset then it will be boring we will be like robots, it's good to have different opinions but some people just can't stand others having different opinions.
This goes for both sides, say something is too strong about survivor I'm attacked with "You're a killer main" but I'm like no I'm giving feedback about the game and it's my opinion. If I say something about killer needs to be changed I'm attack with "You're a survivor main" or "You don't have that much experience in rank 1" which I've been at too many times.
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@ClickyClicky said:
God killer mains are the whiniest and most entitled players of all.
I’ve been playing solo a lot recently and you lose game after game after hame after game after game. I have to put in so much effort, come top of the scoreboard everytime but can not carry my team of numpties to victory.
Do you see me complaining? Or asking for buff after buff? Or nerf after nerf after nerf?
No I suck it up and deal with it.
Killers are fine right now. I play solo and the chance of escaping is about 10%. I play killer against red ranks and I can still do ok. Win most games and normally guaranteed 2k minimum.
Sure 4 people all on comms can be annoying on some maps but by and large most survivors groups are fine.
"God killer mains are the whiniest and most entitled players of all."
Just stop comparing sides please? Both sides have whiny people no need to say killer mains are whiny. Remember survivors review bombed DbD I think on two occasions (I know they definitely did it once), would it be fair for me to call all survivor mains whiny? No it's not because you cannot judge a side on other people's behavior at all.
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1035558#Comment_1035558
"I'm a survivor main in red ranks"
Sure you are bud. Everyone says that
Can we stop comparing sides please? I'm tired of seeing "You're a Survivor main because you complained about X on killer side" or "You're a killer main because you complained about X on the survivor side".
You have no idea what side they play and that's your opinion. This is a forums, a place to discuss things and if you're going to throw a tantrum over someone having a different opinion to you then why bother coming onto here? Your reply was not constructive at all and you're just being aggressive for no reason.
I've noticed you have replied to someone doing the "flip side of the coin" thing but the person who you replied to with the "Sure you are bud" never said anything to you, it just seem like you're looking for an argument for no reason whatsoever and it makes you seem like a child.
@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032804#Comment_1032804
Prove Thyself only cancels the first additional survivor penalty. DH can be baited, and if you have 4 other people, go into customs and practice. I never said DS was perfect. I said that I personally use it for anti-tunnelling.
Unbreakable is also only a once per game, and unless you are chasing across the map, you should be fine.
NoED for the speed boost is fine, but I just hate the free exposure.
Dead hard can be baited but it's uncountable if they use it for distance. It literally gets you to another loop for free which you wouldn't have gotten to anyway unless they are out in the open. Using it to avoid a hit is garbage because it is easy to bait out add dedicated servers into the mix and it does nothing but using it for distance is the true strength of this perk.
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@YourBoyTroy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029765#Comment_1029765
I am not trolling I legit don't like BBQ and Chili.
I don't think the other perks on killer are that bad and are balanced.
There we go, and I quote "I legit don't like BBQ and Chili." just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it NEEDS to be nerfed, don't be so entitled. I've not seen a nerf BBQ posts for a long long time because survivors adapted to it and knows the counters.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022163#Comment_1022163
You do raise a good point here. Some of these structures combined with low movement speed killers definitely need to be addressed to produce a fairer situation for killers.
Well like I've stated before having varying opinions is a good thing and makes us humans and not boring robots. I'd like to personally thank you for doing a proper discussion and not going off-topic or throwing a tantrum.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022286#Comment_1022286
Yes sir or madam, I'm pointing out both sides get nerfs. Most of the Survivor nerfs were very much needed, some over done however.
Gates are just annoying in general since there are a handful of Killers who can easily patrol both of them even with a moderate distance between them. Then you get the side by side gate spawns and it's just awful even against less mobile killers let alone the high mobility one.
And the point is very much needed. Read the last sentence of the OP's post. There are so many users on here declaring the devs are in bed with Survivors and the Killers have suffered through nerf after nerf while Survivors get buffed right and left. And it's just dramatic bull. Both sides have received balancing over the years. And balancing is always nerfs and buffs. Not just one!
I agree that some people overreact when they say "Survivors receive buffs left right and center". For some people, again not all, claim that the devs catered to the survivors in this update in particular because of how biased their post sounded. All of the changes were "For the survivors fun" yet no changes were made for the killers fun.
I try my best to not be biased and some people do have different opinions to me on either side but that is what makes us all human. No one thinks alike and I'm not going to state that anyone is a main of a certain side because they have varying opinions and I actually like to have discussions on here.
The gates do need looking at because you feel hopeless as a survivor when both gates spawn next to each other and hopefully no one says "Not another killer nerf!" because it's genuinely bad for survivors.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022215#Comment_1022215
With the BS nerfs, it can't be ignored that the base speed of Killers breaking pallets were increased! So basically the core Killers across the board were buffed while the optional perk was nerfed. I mean, I'd take that as a buff overall since it made BS less mandatory.
Survivors don't get a lot of core nerfs cause they already are bare bones. They run, walk, vault, and M1. Survivors are basically all about their perks and that's why those (Sabotage, Mettle, Exhaustion perks, Selfcare, DS) get the nerfs instead of the base Survivors. Not much else to change on them while Killers have their special powers.
And even ignoring perks, items, and special abilities. Survivors had Gen time increased, Gate time increased, less pallets, EGT, and the window blocker. (is there more stagger on falls now as well?)
Killers got faster pallet breaks, faster gen kicks, and faster pick up animations.
I'll agree that some survivors received heavy nerfs and some of them I think went too far (MoM was too heavy of a nerf). My scenarios were just an example I could use to show that the amount of nerfs mean nothing.
As for the nerfs though, some of them NEEDED to happen otherwise survivor would be way too strong. I don't know why you're bringing up nerfs that needed to happen because if you watch old DbD videos you'd see why they were busted.
I'm going to go over some of the nerfs and why I think they were necessary.
Gen times: There are videos, and a lot of them, showing games ending in 4 minutes. At the time gen times needed to be increased but at the moment 80 seconds is good enough. Gen times are not an issue and the "killer cannot apply pressure" argument stems from mainly map sizes.
Gate time increase: The only valid complaint I see about this is when the gates spawn next to each other because there is no way that in 20 seconds you can open a gate with the killer patrolling both of them. 20 seconds with no skill checks and the distance between gates is good enough, the killer still needs a chance to stop them. Even still, killers get told to use perks if they complain so if you care about gate times then use Wake Up.
Less pallets: Alright I agree that some of the maps are completely killer sided in the regards to pallets but with double pallets one single survivor could waste way too much of the killer's time. I understand that pallets are the survivors only decent defense against killers but they reduced the amount of pallets due to how safe some of them were.
EGC: This was only made to prevent survivors from taking the game hostage. You can't blame the killers for this because some survivors that were increasingly salty took it upon themselves to take out their frustration on the killer by intentionally wasting his time to try and get them to DC forcing them to lose points. The only time the EGC is in the killer's favor is when both gates are close to each other which I've already stated that it's stupid and shouldn't be a thing.
Window blocker: This was completely necessary otherwise there would be far too many infinite loops with structures that contain windows. Nothing more to really say here.
Exhaustion perks: This was absolutely necessary because with how long you can loop the killer for it was totally unfair for survivors to just sprint burst in their face to the next loop and then the cycle continues.
Stagger: I'm not sure if they increased it so I cannot comment on this.
I'm hoping you're just stating these to prove a point that survivors get nerfed in the killer's favor too and not saying that they were stupid nerfs. Even if you're trying to prove a point then I have no clue why because no one is denying that the survivors get nerfed but what people do get frustrated about is the unnecessary nerfs to both sides.
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Stay awake, I know once you get hit you're sleeping but at that point you just need to know when to drop the pallet or abandon the loop. The alarm clocks is the only way I use to wake up because it will take another 1 minute and 30 seconds (I think) before I fall back to sleep, more than enough time to work on gens and loop him for a while without worrying about snares or fake pallets.
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@Hopesfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021906#Comment_1021906
"change" aka delete dead hard and DS ought to do it.. crutch perks that every survivor uses.. since that is the standard we are using now
But people will say "DH is trash due to dedicated servers!" so it's not even strong. Yes they are right, DH is trash for avoiding hits but do you know what makes DH really strong? Use it for distance because there is NOTHING a killer can do to counter that. The only time DH can be countered is if the survivors are in a deadzone or if they use DH for avoiding hits which is really easy to bait out.
The only change needed to DS are these things:
- Working on a generator deactivates DS
- Performing an unhook deactivates DS
- Oh and if it had proper deactivation cooldowns I wouldn't mind buffing the time it's active for
My reasoning for the change is because if you work on a generator and make yourself visible then you have no reason whatsoever to complain about being tunneled. The second change again if you are unhooking someone, a risky action if the killer is nearby, then survivors have no rights to complain about being tunneled.
Oh and DS doesn't need to deactivate when another survivor is hooked because nothing is stopping the killer from slugging the tunneled survivor, downing another survivor and once hooking them returning to the slugged survivor. If these changes go through then the killer will have no reason to complain about being hit by DS unless they actually tunneled.
Even though DS can be annoying we really do need an anti-tunnel perk.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022126#Comment_1022126
So Survivor nerfs and Killer buffs are "necessary to actually make the game fun" but Killer nerfs aren't every necessary? I played old Stun on teleport Hag back in the day. Ruin was strong back then as well. Now that we have had about 2 years or solid Survivor nerfs... maybe some stuff that was strong back when Survivors were truly OP... are now OP themselves?
Also forgot L4D shirt changes, faster pick up animation for Killers, faster pallet break speed, moon offerings removed, insta heals nerfed, medkits altered, SC nerfs...
Killers have received a massive net buff over the years and Survivors a net nerf over the years. Anyone who ignores this is being extremely bias. Both sides require balancing. They always will. And that comes with BOTH nerfs and buffs.
I always try and use an example of weighing scales for balance. No amount of buffs or nerfs each side receives mean anything, it's the severity of the change that affects it. Let's use two examples:
Scenario 1 Brutal strength: Nerfed to 17%, nerfed to 15%, nerfed to 12%, nerfed to 10% (4 nerfs in total)
Scenario 2 Brutal strength: Nerfed to 10% (1 nerf)
Both have the same outcome, but scenario 1 had more nerfs so killer was affected way more, right? Wrong because either way it had the same outcome if it was only nerfed once in my examples. I know my scenarios wasn't the best but it doesn't matter what side received more nerfs, it's the significance of those nerfs that matter.
I'm also tired of seeing people comparing killer nerfs to survivor nerfs. You can keep listing all survivor nerfs but someone has for the most part an up to date list of all killer nerfs and all survivor nerfs on the Steam forums. Both sides have been nerfed but the last significant basekit survivor nerf was literally the removal of pallet vacuum which was really needed. The rest of the nerfs were on optional perks. Feel free to correct me, I'm not stubborn and will admit if I'm wrong and will apologize.
This goes for both sides, can we please stop saying "Well X side got nerfed more!!!! Devs are X biased" The amount of nerfs mean nothing, it's the significance of the nerfs.
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I love this idea, I do play both roles so I don't mind the Rift too much but I'd certainly like to have 40% of the Rift to be my choice of role.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022129#Comment_1022129
Survivors being injured and doing the "no heal meta" is actually advantageous as a killer.
It makes tracking and chasing survivors easier and on stealth killers allows them to get surprise hits which down survivors.
Admittedly yes, it doesn't always work brilliantly, although there are ways to use the survivor's choice to remain injured to your advantage. Perks like Thantophobia are good for situations like these and injured survivors remove options for themselves, such as stealth and locker plays.
Thana does slow down the game but it only adds an additional 16 (?) seconds onto the gen with all 4 injured. Being injured is an advantage as long as the map doesn't have any god loops or structures and it definitely helps out stealth killers.
I agree with some of your points and you do make good points but unfortunately the one thing that makes me disagree or be in the middle are the maps. Gen times are fine but the biggest issues are the maps 110%.
If maps wasn't the size of Jupiter (exaggeration I know) then it would be much much easier to apply pressure. Of course this will make some killers like Billy too strong (which I will probably get hate for saying this) but it will also allow the developers to remove Bloodlust too.
If I'm on a map like Wretched Shop then I couldn't care less about being injured because I have a structure that I can waste the killer's time on for such as long time. Even if he drops chase on me, the other survivors can just run straight to it with no problems. Now if the map was Hawkings then I would definitely be healing because we all know how that map is for survivors.
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Only played strong killers so my game have been somewhat fine but god knows how my games will go playing low - mid tier killers.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022101#Comment_1022101
Injuring survivors before breaking off a chase is a great way to apply pressure in these situations when they're all working on separate generators.
Hitting a survivor then going back to patrolling (and regressing) generators either forces survivors to be vulnerable the next time you find them or waste time healing. This is especially effective when combined with perks like Sloppy Butcher or Bloodhound.
If the survivors are particularly coordinated then it is very difficult but not impossible.
Yeah that 100% works when survivors heal but unfortunately some survivors do the "No heal meta" if that's what is is called so they rush gens and just rely on Adrenaline at the end game. If survivors don't heal what else is there to do apart from gens? Totems are a thing but most say it's a waste of time because "It's not their primary objective".
Yes I try and injure multiple survivors but being injured isn't as threatening as some people think. Why do you think mediocre players don't cleanse against Plague or even heal against a Legion and still win?
Legion showed people that being injured and rushing gens with Adrenaline is far more rewarding because you get to focus on gens without needing to find a team mate to heal you.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021960#Comment_1021960
Please respond with an actually constructive argument in response to my points rather than trying to derail the discussion by requesting footage which I do not have nor would I want to share.
I'm not going to be like others to say you're wrong and whatnot but I generally do want to have a discussion with you.
First of all, not using ruin has actually opened my eyes and made me realize I don't need it to win. Although keep in mind that I've only played Doctor, Freddy and Plague without it so I cannot comment on how I will win with killers like Clown. Now there is a downside to that being I need to slug and sometimes tunnel depending on the current state of the game. I personally don't like slugging but I find it as one of the ways to pressure survivors and give me the upper hand.
So regarding your point, no it is not impossible for killers to apply pressure but it's too difficult for killers with no mobility. I've said this a few times but Hag in my opinion is one of the only killers who can be in multiple places at once and can actively pressure 4 survivors if they have a good web setup. Dropping the chase sometimes works but you can't always use that argument to apply pressure because you can only chase 1 survivor at a time, dropping the chase means that 2 survivors will be off generators, one being the person you dropped chase on and the other being the on you're chasing meaning 2 survivors are still on gens. On the rare occurrence that multiple survivors are on a gen then all of them will run away but once you commit to a survivor the others will just hop back on it.
Even after you drop the chase, the survivor who you dropped chase on could already be working on a generator making it pointless and you still have to walk over to a generator, hoping a survivor is working on it, and then engage in a chase against them still using up a lot of time.
Don't get me wrong, this is not in every game but if survivors split up on gens it's pretty hard to keep up pressure. If survivors grouped up on gens like 2 on each gen it would be much easier to apply pressure because you've just gotten 2 survivors off gens instead of the one. It would also make perks like Discordance more useful and some killers like Legion.
If they made it so if 2 survivors are on gens it progresses at the current rate for 1 and if 1 is on a gen the progression is less then it would be much better. Right now the most optimal way to play is by all splitting up on generators and pumping them out because the killer literally has no way to pressure that and control it. Dropping the chase only allows the survivor to hop back onto a gen and another to get off, it's essentially a cat and mouse game.
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I did basement bubba only killing people who touched my chest, Dwight touched it but I didn't have it in my heart to kill him :( #DwightLivesMatter
I ended up downing him, and putting him at top of the basement. He knew what I was doing so he kept going down and it felt like I was training a dog saying "No touching the chest, let's try that again".
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@xBEATDOWNSx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1020617#Comment_1020617
God I would have loved to have seen that hahaha.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1020621#Comment_1020621
I really need to unlock unbreakable. I've actually never played as Bill and don't even have BT unlocked
Ghostface lead our conga line into the basement to where we all died :( It was fun though, started of with me t-bagging and Ghostface t-bagging each other and then somehow it formed into a conga line after a few head-on stuns.
I love matches like that because we all bad fun. Although 4 of us died we had a great laugh
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@xBEATDOWNSx said:
I started running Object of Obsession on my current survivor build and man, I'm having a blast. The idea of playing the rabbit for the killer to chase while the rest work on survivors is just incredibly fun.
Yeah, I'm getting tunneled into the ground. Hell, last round I was face camped on my second hook but it was 100% worth it.
If anyone else runs this perk, I'm curious to what your set up is
The only time I run OoO is when I'm using head-on doing memes. Last time I used it I formed a conga line against a Ghostface
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@kurgan8282 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1019059#Comment_1019059
7 minutes is really nothing these days, last days i had a record of 29 minutes, and never less than 12...today it seems a bit better
I guess it depends on platform and region but 7 minutes is the longest I've had to wait for a match. Every survivor I've been against have complained about long queue times and I've asked them all a simple question "Have they increased since this patch" and all of them apart from 1 said yes.
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@ABannedCat said:
Good lord. Now that Ruin is out of the way, survivors are now attacking NOED.
The domino effect started a while ago... After nurse it turned to spirit after spirit people are now advocating for a Freddy nerf and Ghostface nerf and now for some reason I've been seeing more posts about Hillbilly.
To be fair though, NoED has always been a hot topic on here.
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For the first time I've had to wait 7 minutes for a survivor game today, never before have I had to wait that long meanwhile I got an 11 second queue for killer.
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018845#Comment_1018845
Also still passed my point up with the counter perk not a last resort cause you fail at chases and gen pressure 😏
How do you pressure 4 people at the same time especially with killers like The Clown? I've asked this to many people who say "just apply pressure" and they've pretty much always dodged the question or said to play a high tier killer which doesn't help low to mid tier killers with no mobility
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It's bugged at the moment and you can get the achievements randomly
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With my stopwatch:
Survivor queue: 7 minutes (Just watched a show called Can't pay we will take it away or something like that)
Survivor game length: 5m 30s
Killer queue time: 11 seconds
Killer queue length: 8 minutes (I got a 4k)
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1017528#Comment_1017528
Any of the killers that circumvent god loops (which I already listed) would work.
Also bamboozle.
Also picking a different target who's working on a generator.
Do you know how many killers got flamed for saying "Just run X"? Before the Spirit changes (which I wont call nerfs because I still do fine with her) killers told survivors to just run Spine chill and they were flamed saying "Running a perk to counter one killer?"
Well why would killers need to run a perk to counter a particular loop that may or may not be there due to map RNG? It just seems stupid to waste a perk slot for that don't you think?
Of course I'm not blaming on you because I hope you're not the type to say "You can't tell survivors to run x perk" and I haven't seen you do it at all and I really don't like to make assumptions.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1015125#Comment_1015125
"Huntress hatchet hitboxes fix"
Right because that went well the first time, totally didn't destroy the huntress to the point where they had to hotfix it and had mains quitting left and right.
"Iri Heads rework"
For what?!?!? You act like its a Mori....
"Ghostface revealing fix" They already nerfed him in this regard and you want him to be even more useless?
"Hag Trap triggers" Hag is trash tier why nerf her more?
"Spirit Phasewalk indicator" Are you playing with the sound turned off?!?!?
Posts like this, while you had me wonder why people play this game if they want it to be 1 sided and easy all the time.....
The only thing I disagree with is the Hag being trash tier. A good Hag can dominate and is one of the only killers who can be in multiple places at once causing damage. By all means this has do be done by a Hag with experience and with good trap placements but she is definitely far from trash tier.
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It's still a Hex totem and will be easily destroyed in the early game. Even when I've used other totem perks like Devour it was always cleansed so early so to no surprise Ruin wont last either. Don't get me wrong the combo is cool but would only be good for around 30 seconds up until 2 minutes.
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People will use Calm Spirit just like people used OoO when Ghostface first released but it's understandable to use perks to counter a specific killer if there is a good chance of going against them.
Personally I will be using my normal build and if I go against a lot of calm spirit users then I'll just switch to my main boi Freddy or Bing bong
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@Jacksansyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1014147#Comment_1014147
I wasn't trying to be snappy, and no, waiting even a full 40 seconds is faster than eating a stun and running down the survivor, unless you are someone like billy, nurse, or spirit who can instantly catch up. Because a 5 second stun gives them enough time that even running in a straight line would give them 15 to 20 seconds before you can catch them, not counting any windows, pallets or walls you would have to deal with. For the sake of the argument, maybe it's just my playstyle, but I never run into someone I've just had unhooked unless they run at me with DS. In which case i just slug them. Waiting out a locker is not ideal, but it is counterplay, and DS just isn't that OP. Old DS led to people avoiding the obsession, and while it did have counterplay, there wasn't as much, and it could happen at any point in the game. Dribbling only worked if you were close enough to a hook, and people didn't block you. So a good chase would end, and if the survivor went down somewhere safe, you would have to let them go, or hope they missed it. I do agree that making it bigger was pointless, but they didn't make it much bigger.
Well if it wasn't your intention to be snappy then I apologize for judging you like that. I think it's great to have different views on the game but I think it's just better to say our opinions are different and it's not a bad thing because we both have different views.
I think we've both brought up our points and there is no point continuing otherwise we will be going around in a circle so lets say we can agree to disagree :)
One thing I do somewhat agree with now is eating the stun would be worse then waiting it out however with my playstyle and old DS I would eat the stun and move onto a new survivor knowing if I catch the previous one I wouldn't have to worry about the stun but then again it might just be our different playstyles.
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@Jacksansyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012888#Comment_1012888
Dang, i guess i don't play enough killer. 1500 hours and i don't play enough killer. Darn, guess i don't get an opinion. DS is SUPER easy to avoid, and if a killer gets hit by it, they let it happen, or forgot the person was recently hooked. If they jump in a locker while repairing a gen with DS, just kick the gen and wait. If you are somehow back on someone that was unhooked and went to a gen, then they have to have like what, 15 seconds left? If you hooked someone, went to the other side of the map to chase someone down, hooked them all before the person got unhooked, maybe they will have a lot of DS time left, but that doesn't happen often. The only time i ever have a chance at getting DSd is when someone rushes me off the hook, and if they do that, i know they have DS, and i can work around it. It was broken before, they already nerfed it. now it's like mettle of man. Really good if it goes off, but would you call mettle of man OP? TBH, i think they need to "buff" it. Just change it from 60 seconds to like "2 minutes or until someone else gets hooked" because alot of killers do just tunnel and slug the person that got unhooked, and if they are really toxic, they will slug camp until DS is certainly gone. Or if you do even a slightly good chase, DS will time out before they catch you. Survivors can only get it to work if they force it to, or the killer tunnels immediately.
"Dang, i guess i don't play enough killer. 1500 hours and i don't play enough killer. Darn, guess i don't get an opinion."
No need for the snappy response, guess I'm not allowed an opinion right? My opinion being that DS is not an anti-tunnel perk so you go on the defensive. This is a forum people will have varying opinions and if you don't want to discuss without being overly defensive then don't be on here.
"DS is SUPER easy to avoid, and if a killer gets hit by it, they let it happen, or forgot the person was recently hooked. "
True and false. Yes DS is easy to avoid but so are perks like NOED (not targeted towards you) but if we have to use that mindset of "let it happen don't complain" then why are there so many posts about NOED? That mindset is not healthy, just because it's avoidable doesn't mean that it should be ignored completely.
"If they jump in a locker while repairing a gen with DS, just kick the gen and wait."
Again this is why I don't think you play much killer. The reason why people call survivor "easy mode" is because most of the time pressure is on the killer. They have to so much much mental thinking and planning and one mistake could cost them so much time and they will lose the game. Kicking the gen and standing outside the locker is the worst idea ever and it would be much quicker to just eat the DS and chase them again but eating DS isn't countering it it's just rewarding the survivor again.
" If you are somehow back on someone that was unhooked and went to a gen, then they have to have like what, 15 seconds left?"
This depends on the map size, if gens are uncompleted in that tile and if you did any other actions such as healing before hopping onto the gen. Many of times I've been unhooked and hopped right onto a gen with a full 50 seconds left of my DS. Yes I'm probably a hypocrite because I'm literally using DS in the annoying way but I can't really help it and I would be stupid to not hop onto a gen for 60 seconds because I have DS.
"It was broken before, they already nerfed it. now it's like mettle of man. Really good if it goes off, but would you call mettle of man OP?"
Honestly I'd rather have the old DS back. So many people say it's a nerf but old DS has the following flaws: Enduring countered it. dribbling countered it, you could waste it at the start of a match. Current DS is more unhealthy because it's literally a 60 second invincibility perk old DS had some counter play to it. Please please please bring back old DS because trust me people would call that a nerf. In my personal opinion the "new" DS is a buff because Enduring doesn't affect it, the skill check is easier and you have a 100% chance of hitting it due to no dribbling, if that's a nerf then I don't know what is.
Regarding MoM, in my opinion it's too weak right now. I understand the perk needed to be changed but they nerfed it way too much so no I'm not going to call it OP and I think they need to buff it. Believe it or not I do play both sides and I try my best not to be biased at all and have a open mind on the frustrations of either side.
"i think they need to "buff" it. Just change it from 60 seconds to like "2 minutes or until someone else gets hooked" because alot of killers do just tunnel and slug the person that got unhooked, and if they are really toxic, they will slug camp until DS is certainly gone. Or if you do even a slightly good chase, DS will time out before they catch you."
I will agree to a buff if it had proper deactivation requirements. If you perform an unhook, leading the killer towards you or you work on a gen, the killer has NOT tunneled at all and the survivor does not deserve a reward for that. If DS deactivated based on certain scenarios then I wouldn't mind a 2 minute timer but it need to have requirements to deactivate otherwise it will just be too strong.
If the killer camps the slugged survivor then that's 75% of a generator completed (correct me if my math was wrong) so if you have competent teammates they will just work on gens knowing it's a lost cause trying to save you. If the killer does that then he has already thrown the game so the killer is punished unless the survivors throw themselves at the killer.
Regarding the chase part, some survivors can be aggressive and constantly bodyblock for the killer to chase them, if that's the case then DS shouldn't punish the killer because he hasn't tunneled. If the killer just straight up chased the survivor from the hook then the killer deserves the stun but going back to my previous point, if DS has proper deactivation requirements then I don't mind them buffing the activation time.
Again I've read my reply to you and I don't see myself being snappy, the closest thing I've said snappy would be "You must not play enough killer" but even then I'm not snapping at you with sarcasm. If you reply to this response, please be a civil person and properly discuss otherwise I'm not going to waste my time with you.
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@Jacksansyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1010632#Comment_1010632
Honestly, i don't know why people still think DS is a good perk. I have not been hit by a single DS since it's nerf. It isn't that good, except in very specific situations. On the survivor side, i have only had maybe 3 or 4 spots where i could have used it, but i don't run it, because i wouldn't ever get it to trigger. Head on is a pretty bad perk, and barely anyone uses it. Borrowed time is just an anti camp perk, and half the killers passively counter it anyways. Adrenaline requires the surviors to hit the end of the match, so as killer, it's hardly a problem, and as survivor, it's again, very situational. When it works, it can be crazy good, but otherwise, you have 1 less perk all game. If you are healthy and nowhere near the killer, adrenaline is just a 1 time speed boost after playing all game with 3 perks. If your team is losing, and never gets all the gens, it's still limiting you to 3 perks. I don't think any perks are OP, and even the best ones have counterplay. I would prefer buffing or reworking weaker / useless perks more instead of nerfing good perks. Have everything on the same level, so there is more diverse gameplay. Like how they improved kindred.
I'm sorry but if you haven't been hit with a single DS then you don't play enough killer. I agree we need an anti-tunnel perk but people have posted videos and you even see it on live streams when people get hit with DS and they don't tunnel. It's not uncommon to run into survivors that make stupid plays to just be rewarded with DS.
Like people say slug to avoid DS but what if a survivor was repairing a gen in your face next to a locker? You start to walk up to them, they jump into a locker and then what do you do? Walk away and they are back on the gen, slugging is out of the window and if you eat the stun you did not counter DS, you simply just rewarded the survivor with a stun.
Now if DS had a deactivation condition such as interact with gens because if you repair gens in the killers TR that is your fault and you made yourself a high priority target, or if you perform a unhook it deactivates because again you cannot complain about tunneling if you've put yourself into a risky situation then I agree it will be hard to be hit with DS if you didn't tunnel.