BenihimeWrath
BenihimeWrath
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If multiple survivors are attempting to escape through hatch with a key, just body block the hatch after the first one escapes. And then close it in their faces and watch them scramble to get away as EGC commences. Beyond that, I do agree there should be the ability to grab survivors added back to punish survivors that don't just take hatch but wait to tbag you the whole time.
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284366#Comment_2284366
I really think that you're one of those shameful killers, the lowest of the low players who tunnel on 4-5 gens. Your message really does strike me as you're one of them and if you are, you're disgusting tbh.
1 person has to be gone before 3 gens, thats just how it is. If you don't keep that pace then survivors snowball out of control. If you don't like it, then tell the devs to fix the gen speeds so it doesn't feel like we have to play that way in order to have a chance of winning.
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Sorry, I literally have to kill someone as fast as possible. Its the only real way to slow the game down to a manageable level. Its not enjoyable for me to get 1 hook and then get tbagged at the exit gate because I allowed survivors to snowball. I'm the one I want to snowball, and thats how I do it, by getting rid of a survivor. It sounds, and appears when I play survivor, that a lot of other killers are making that decision as well, if they have any experience at the game. Toxicity goes in a cycle, and both sides are responsible for the other sides fun because the roles are symbiotic. But the unfortunate reality is that people are not against you, they are for themselves, so if its the choice between them having fun, or you having fun, they are going to pick themselves.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2282182#Comment_2282182
Well honestly I find that hard to believe that you go against baby survivors and Rank is practically frozen.
Baby survivors for me is what I got after 4 months being away and started playing again last Sunday from rank 17.
Bulldoze over the survivors without perks and add ons and even with trickster playing for the first time, rank 10 on Monday for only about 4hrs on total.
And now with nemesis I do the same, no perks no add ons to learn his base kit, and still I rank up, and yes by this point I already go against red ranks.
So i kinda find it hard to believe you don't get decent survivors and you barely rank up
Well rank reset set me back to 14 in may because of the bug I presume, and because I didn't play much I was reset back down into yellow ranks again this time around just 4 days ago. And I mean its literally been frozen the last 2 evenings I've played, as in, my pips don't go up or down and the pip screen itself always displays the wrong amount of pips(Like saying +2 pips when I safetied for example). So I've only been going against ranks 20-13~ which, no offense to them and no flex because its not a grand achievement or anything, is baby territory for me.
@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2282182#Comment_2282182
Then to answer your previous hyperbole question, yes, I'd much rather play against a sweaty tryhard killer for nine minutes than to play against a farming game for nine minutes
I mean, I'm surprised to hear that considering how many threads I see about survivors complaining about camping/tunneling/slugging but I assume we are still doing the sarcastic hyperbole thing.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281801#Comment_2281801
Everyone has their own way of having fun.
And don't get me wrong here I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but the problem with farming is that they do it a lot.
Meaning they get into ranks they are not ready for.
For example say you play at lets say rank 13, you managed to find many people who want to farm (which there are) and you keep ranking up.
Then all of a sudden you get people who don't want to farm and you decide to play normal then.
You get little amount of hooks, stunned and looped a lot.
Now if that happens to me (which happened more than I like), I don't have fun because you're not a challenge for me.
I love the trill of the possibility to get downed, and if I know tiles well and you don't know how to counter it well, then it's gonna be a difficult match for you and pretty boring for me.
And I'm very sure that it's not fun for you too.
That is the biggest problem I have with farming.
Cause as killer I don't want to bulldoze over the survivors and as survivor I don't want to run around the map without having to worry about going down.
Unfortunately I don't have much choice right now. Ranks have been seemingly frozen the last 2 days so I'm always against baby survivors. And if the choice is between bullying new survivors and farming, I'd rather farm.
@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281801#Comment_2281801
You're taking what everyone is saying and completely hyperboling it and blowing it out of proportion just because you're not getting the answer you want but you know what...
Yeah, if my options are to waste 20 minutes of my life with boring farming gameplay or play 10 minutes against a sweatlord tryhard killer doing all they can to win, I'd 1000% take the sweatlord tryhard over farming
There, now you have someone agreeing with you.
Not sure what killers you are farming with but it takes maybe 9 minutes total for me to farm with survivors. Its not that hard to do basic math to make sure everyone gets enough points.
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Okay, having read this, I've come to the conclusion that survivors just want a sweatmaster-5000 to play against instead of someone trying to be chill and have fun. Thanks for the feedback guys.
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@oliviaa said:
because we are here to escape not make killers feel better ab themselves because they lost the previous game...
just use BBQ and use a BP offering if u want BPs that bad
I haven't lost any games tonight. As soon as survivors don't want to farm I just kill them and move on, which is a lot fewer points for everyone and they lose their items. Even though I'm actively making it clear I want to farm by standing in pallets for stuns, letting them blind me, stuff I know people are farming for their rift challenges, etc etc. I don't need a patronizing survivor to 'make me feel better', thanks though.
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@th3 said:
Too many killers pretending to farm and then killing everyone.
I don't even 2nd hook a survivor unless they indicate hooking by pointing at the hook.
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@Karao_Ke said:
I mean.. it's pretty boring.
You'll probably have more luck when anniversary comes out, since everyone will be wanting to farm for bloodpoints then, including myself.
Literally 2 new survivors and 1 new killer was just released, why would people not be farming now?
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
Because it is boring as hell
Oh yeah because sitting on gens for 6 mins and 40 seconds is such engaging gameplay.
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Honestly since I've been playing Nemesis the only value I've gotten out of the zombies is tier 2 fuel, and getting a general idea of where survivors are across the map as a zombie vaguely chases them. Even trying to push survivors into zombies has rendered absolutely no positive results thus far. In fact, most games a zombie gets stuck in at least one place and I have to go destroy it otherwise it'll just keep walking in place. Which is honestly probably what happened to the zombie at the window, it was probably literally stuck there and you just so happened to vault into it.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2277847#Comment_2277847
More Vaccines would be awful and not a good fix.
It wouldn't solve the issue that Franklin's can destroy vaccines and would make it so Nemesis would feel force to run Franklin's to remove vaccines. Vaccines are really strong when survivors use them early as they grant an extra hit against Tentacle Strike and Zombies while proving an extra speed boost in chase. Very easy to force Nemesis to take a long time to down survivors in the early game which means gens will fly.
Honestly the Franklin's change isn't bad. It's now more useful at stopping items like toolboxes and med-kits that survivors generally want their full charges too. Keys are likely an oversight that can be easily fixed by preventing a key from being able to open hatch at 0 charges.
Honestly I only virally infect people as nemesis until I hit stage 2, after that I stop caring and just go 'man with raw fists' and use the tentacle as a fast pallet break. So the counterplay is completely wasted based on the way I play, but thats a good point for more power based Nemesis'
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@Rizzo said:
The changes to Franklin's have been made because of the Vaccine with Nemesis, since a single use of Franklin's could destroy the Vaccine.
Out of curiosity, did any dev explain why they didn't want this behavior in the game? And didn't instead just add a few more spawns to compensate for franklin's just being innately good on nemesis?
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Honestly the changes to DS have solidly put it into the "Chase me for 59 seconds and then let me stab you" category of perks, not having anything to do with anti-tunneling. Its honestly getting insanely annoying the amount of survivors using their flashlight macros in my ears trying to get me to chase them after they've been unhooked, probably just so they can feel justified to use DS after all of it.
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Honestly I can only hope that with counterforce in the game, BHVR will finally make hex totems hard to find. As far as I'm concerned, theres no reason to run anything besides haunted grounds/retribution/undying and maybe NOED if you want to bank on survivors not doing all totems before the game is over.
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To be honest, I think nurse needs to be tuned so that the forced downward rotation of the camera in fatigue is not as drastic. You dip down 90 degrees in some cases until you are looking at the floor as whatever survivor you just hit/tried to hit runs off. I feel like this would make a smoother transition between bad and mid level nurses so it makes the transition from mid to god-like nurses feel less like sitting on rusty razor blades. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that you need to face nurses or play nurse to be good at looping a nurse.
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I'll be honest, the only time I just farm is when I'm doing the rift challenges because all it takes usually is one evening as Ghostface tbagging survivors and I'll be done with them, plus I feel like it helps a few people out on some of the crazy dumb survivor challenges like unhooking someone that previously unhooked you. From a survivors perspective, it can be really frustrating going against a lot of killers that play efficiently so its nice to get a killer from time to time that just wants to be chill and farm which is efficient in its own way.
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I've personally seen a sharp rise in the use of distortion myself. The only reason I'm able to notice is because my huntress build is full aura reading perks. (Deerstalker, Nurse's Calling, BBQ, and I'm All Ears.)
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This sounds like my huntress build. Nurse's Calling, Deerstalker, BBQ, and I'm All Ears. Notice what you don't see in this list? A gen defense perk, so that means it takes about 6 minutes and 40 seconds for everyone to be out if playing optimally. The only way I can win is by creating pressure until I snowball out of control. If I can do that, thats your fault as a team.
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Something also to consider, if bloodpoints incremented infinitely that number would always have to be stored in an increasingly large hash value in the code. This, multiplied by all players, would cause a staggering amount of data storage and communication needs over time. Considering you can technically already do this with addons, its probably best to not do the same with BP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there is a cap to the amount of addons you can have saved up.
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Nurse is completely fine, you can literally run her around out in the middle of corn for 5 gens without going down if you understand how her power works. This is a failure of your part as a survivor for not practicing and learning against nurse.
As far as spirit goes, shes supposed to be disproportionately rewarded for skill in because she is a FOOS, first order optimal strategy. Now normally such a thing is only used for new players, however I believe spirit is the FOOS for entering red ranks. That is to say, she is meant to be played by players new to red ranks. OhTofu recently made the comparison that rank 20-2 is basically iron-gold players in league of legends, and rank 1 then has all platinum to challenger players. And this is why spirit has to stay where she is because a player with only 500 hours needs some thing to defend themselves against a player with 5000, and other killers with more complex strategies that are adequately rewarded for that increased level of skill are created/buffed to be above her in power, as a FOOS is never meant to be the best strategy.
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Just because you don't understand the purpose of a killers design does not mean they are poorly designed.
Consider the following.
Doctor is a free killer for the purchase of any of the console games, therefore put directly into the hands of new players. Now, let us take a moment to look at his kit. Monitor & Abuse is one of the most meta perks on killers, its specific use is for sneaking up on survivors to catch them out of position. (Often in combination with infectious fright for making use of the larger terror radius, but I digress.) His Static Blast, which is meant to be able to find survivors throughout the match which new players struggle with. His Shock Therapy with a low skill floor style of anti-looping that has a high skill ceiling so someone can start playing Doctor as a new player, but still be learning things they can do for a long time. Finally, the madness which causes built in generator delay, which is the reward for the doctor successfully tiering up survivors effectively.
Now let us look at his addons, things that make his terror radius larger for easier Static Blasts, additional madness effects that make spotting survivors easier or add greater tracking across map (as you can see the red stain or madness apparitions yourself.)
With all that said, I believe that doctor has been very carefully crafted to be a FOOS, first order optimal strategy. Which is a game mechanic designed in such a way to be rewarded disproportionately for their skill in in order to give new players a chance against players with more time in the game. More easily identified versions of such a mechanic are the "noob tube" from CoD, or the fully charged plasma pistol into melee combo from Halo.
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The only problem I could foresee with a system like this is that it would have to monitor a lot of different populations at once. While we like to talk about how many players are concurrently playing, some of them are only playing with their own console. All of those populations would need to be monitored independently because what may be right for most people may not be good for other groups.
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I believe indoor maps are fine, the problem is that they inherently have a high bar of killer skill necessary to engage against survivors well on them because while there is some catching people out from a blind corner, there is also no longer being able to see scratch marks, or survivors themselves from halfway across the map. Furthermore because of their structure they often have a lot of strong palettes (personally I think hawkins is a good example of having a good mix of palette strengths), which means that killers are inordinately punished for being unable to catch survivors out of position compared to open maps.
Ultimately I think the solution is to perhaps find a friend you can get into a custom game with so that you can more ably familiarize yourself with the layouts/RNG without feeling pressured by the generators ticking away in the background. I think as you become more comfortable with navigating such maps, you'll find them less annoying to deal with.
Also, threading a Huntress hatchet through numerous doorways/windows/hallways on Lery's is probably one of my proudest gamer nuts ever, so being able to recognize the rise in difficulty also increases the satisfaction of the payoff.
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The problem with buffing survivor perks first is that a killer role baseline has to be able to manage that power, they have to physically be capable of getting a 4K at the end of the day otherwise the population of killers would just continue to shrink simply because getting into playing killer would feel enormously oppressive. While most people view the game as Us vs Them, Survivors vs Killers, the ultimate truth at the end of the day is that the roles are symbiotic. Therefore the more powerful the killer role in general is allowed to be, the more impactful each individual survivor CAN be. This is the problem with balancing for every killer getting a 2K, but at the end of the day NEEDING them to be capable of a 4K.
Furthermore allow us to examine the most recent buff to Lucky Break, at its PTB version a full team stacking it (SoloQ or SWF doesn't really matter much in this case.) would cause lucky break to take up 90% (360 seconds, of 400) of the time it takes to finish generators, presuming only 1 person is working on a generator at a time. This magnification from multiple survivors running one perk is what killers are afraid of, not necessarily one stray survivor having one stray strong or meta perk.
I feel like what has to be done is that killer perks are batch buffed, followed by survivor perks being batched buffed, followed finally by tuning the new killer to survivor power ratio. This would basically destroy any and all META, and would feel incredibly terrible during phase one, which is likely why it will never happen and why survivor perks will never be allowed to be powerful either.
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@Vulgun said:
All of these are good suggestions overall.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241666#Comment_2241666
The reduction I feel would be good only if they added the increased Bloodpoint earnings. If you reduce how much you need to spend by half on (most of) them, as well as boost the amount of Bloodpoints earned in matches, you'll level up your character within around 4 to 8 levels per match, which is what should really be the case rather than possibly leveling them up once or twice.
And I also think that Prestige should allow you to have more Perk Slots available to you in base; so if you prestige once, you get two slots to start; you prestige again, you get three, and the final time, you get all four. Gives you more incentive.
I also do agree that something needs to be done about the Prestige system. Perhaps considering how much Bloodpoints are spent to prestige anyway, they should reward you with around 250,000 Bloodpoints per Prestige perhaps, that way you can kickstart your progression faster.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241714#Comment_2241714
That or maybe all universal perks are available right from the gate?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241738#Comment_2241738
I can understand why they have ranks, which gives players a sense of "progression", but I also do agree that leveling up perks is too archaic, at least in their current way.
If they had to keep them, I would argue that we should be able to level Perks up by themselves with Bloodpoints, rather than having to sort through them in the Bloodweb. That way you only need to obtain one of each Perk in the Bloodweb, then focus on leveling them up in the Perk menu. Again, an innovative way to really make grind better without having to force people into the Bloodweb and spend so many points to possibly not even go up a level.
Initially I would have agreed that having perk tiers was necessary so that there was any progression at all. However they don't have to worry about 'power progression' per se because of the large diversity of perks available, now they can instead focus on 'mechanical progression', that is to say, 'power' comes from the diversity of builds possible ranging from FOOS, first order optimal strategies, to increasingly more complicated strategies and mechanics for both sides to employ. Unfortunately I think BHVR and DBD is in this sort of gangly youth stage where we are in the middle of the need for that transition, but it hasn't quite happened yet as a game design decision making mentality shift.
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Honestly for balance sake, I think its time they strongly consider simply cutting out rank 1/2 of perks. In that way they can more precisely balance a perk based on its needs and don't have to worry about its 'lesser versions' anymore. That would also immediately cut out a good deal of grinding, and make prestiging feel more feasible for regular people. (Although technically an above and beyond mechanic, so they'd probably add a new set of prestige during these changes like they did last time.)
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Heres a real hot take for you. I think BBQ, Ruin, and the BP part of we're gonna live forever should just be baseline.
- Double bloodpoints for everyone for obvious reasons, rewarding killers for spreading their attention to all survivors baseline, and encouraging altruistic playstyles baseline.
- Baseline aura reading as a built in anti-camping mechanic that gives new avenues for survivor perks to interact with a killer while simultaneously increasing the skill cap of killer by allowing them to identify perks based on when they can see auras, reduce aura exposure to 3 seconds and allow perks to block it innately. Baseline range of activation reduced to 32 meters.
- For example Distortion will always block it, but it will not consume any tokens. Other perks could be Repressed Alliance, blocking your aura when a generator you've blocked is active. Left Behind/Sole Survivor blocking your aura when you are the last survivor. Empathy, For The People, Babysitter blocking the aura when near teammates. Self-care, Bite the Bullet blocking your aura while healing. (Keep in mind this would only be for the BBQ-esque auras, all other killer perks would work as intended.) Giving windows for survivor skill that more easily fit into their perk choices consistently throughout the match. OoO would prevent any perks from blocking their aura no matter what. (Again, only for the BBQ-esque auras.)
- Ruin with no hex totem baseline to provide a small cushion of gen defense and also reward the killer for generating pressure, thereby reducing the necessity of such perks, passively buffing other perks. Encouraging build diversity. Tune remaining gen defense perks down to be more reasonably in line, reducing their overall feeling of oppression.
- Passively reduces the compulsion to tunnel/camp/slug gratuitously as each second of pressure on a survivor is now much more valuable than previously, reducing the need to actively suppress nearly the entire team for effective gen pressure at any given moment. Simultaneously increasing the weight of every decision a survivor makes while repairing generators, making the objective more engaging overall.
- Remove kick as baseline ability, have it be unique to those perks that require breaking a generator.
And before anyone comes in here with an ad absurdum argument of "Well then people are just gonna stack 4 defense perks or 4 tracking perks on top of X/Y". Yeah, obviously some people are going to do that, but that shouldn't cause other, more healthy avenues of gameplay to be shut down just for the fringe minority of cases.
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While I think it is a good idea, and would be really fun cosmetically. On the other side, I think they are avoiding it to prevent creating a circumstance in which a cosmetic makes a killer objectively better therefore selling power as MTX. Being quieter, less visibly apparent, or creating visual hitbox confusion. For example, someone may assume the hitbox of Oni's new kanabo is larger because of the cosmetic and thereby play sub optimally believing they are within 1 hit range. It may not sound like a lot, but if multiple survivors make that mistake across the course of the match then it adds up. Another example is objectively making wraith's bell louder or quieter, giving him a (partially) free addon every game to disorientate survivors with that are used to the normal bell, or lord forbid there be a different noise cue for the bell for every weapon which creates a whole nest of problems on its own.
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To be honest, I believe Nemesis was designed to be very powerful, to be used against red ranks specifically. In fact, while it may be slightly too early to make this prediction, I think he may be equal or better than spirit. With his ability to corral survivors into zombies for insanely high lethality, a (after a certain point) uncleansable infection while having a power that gains more strength over time for an improved late game vs other killers. Having moderate mapwide pressure in zombie downs/injures/infections, with a power range that mostly only punishes very efficient looping with its narrow, relatively short AOE.(From what I can tell it only strikes the first survivor hit. Perhaps a hitbox bug, correct me if I'm wrong.) Which I think is great, passively nerfing killers like spirit by putting killers above them or equal to them is the best way to go for the health of the game I believe.
With that said, I think he also has an adequate amount of skill in necessary to make the most out of his power and the zombies. As far as I can tell, the zombies simply wander around aimlessly unless they detect a survivor so they are virtually worthless on their own and it takes either Nemesis actively using them, or survivors low awareness of where they are for them to be effective. Also, unsure if its a bug but they also seem oddly loud on some maps such that you can hear them through a few walls or from Stridor distance away.
Finally, I don't think tiering up his power will be as fast as it currently is on the PTB, I'm almost positive it'll be slowed down slightly when going to live, its just that they are gathering data on it.
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Honestly, it might sound really weird, but hear me out. What if Leon/Jill got the blackveil vaal hazaak armor from Monster Hunter Iceborne as a reference to the crossover event Resident Evil did with MH? Also including a Mr. X skin for Nemesis, similar to the Mr. X skin for the Handler.
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Perhaps instead of whenever you chase your obsession, whenever your obsession changes you gain 5% speed for 10-20 seconds, similar to how you get the speed bonus from devour hope from the hook action. Thereby encouraging lots of exchanges between survivors to who the obsession is. As well as reducing the negative side effect from being forced to eat a stun/blind in order to use the perk at all.
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
Original DS (When it first came out) should be brought back because Putrid Oaks are in the game
Spurious correlation.
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@Kumakx said:
Most hex perks are completely worthless to begin with, so pitiably laughable in power that its stunning wondering why they are attached to a hex at all.
Can you explain to me then, why in at least 7 out of 10 games as a survivor i see ruin? Often paired with undying, sometimes with devour? If it's so bad, why is everyone running it?
Let's gather data from PTB, let's see how will counterforce affect hexes, after all that's what PTB is for. Then we will draw conclusions.
Remember that Counterforce is high risk high reward kind of perk aswell. If killer has no hexes, you are just playing without one perk.
Thats easy, because there is no gen defense perk combo better than ruin/undying or ruin/pop. Which I assume will naturally switch to pop/corrupt or pop/eruption going forward after this chapter release.
Also, even if there are no hex perks its still hyper effective in maintaining 100% uptime of inner strength, the fastest healing perk in the game. If you pair this with MoM/Inner Strength suddenly taking 2 MoM hits EVERY GAME isn't so wild of an idea. How is that not crazy?
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@Kumakx said:
With this post, you are hard tunneling on balancing the game in killer vs perfectly efficient 4 man SFW, where one of survivors is totem guy, going with counterforce.
Now think about soloQ and just simply not tryhard SFW, which probably makes up for most of the games. Old undying was too oppressive with ruin, while being useless with devour. So I believe undying should stay as it is.
The options to find and learn totem locations has never been easier. Due to the fixed nature of totem spawns, a survivor really just has to run small game for a few dozen hours and then they'll know where all totems spawns are for the rest of the hundreds of hours they'll play the game. Counterforce is an enormously powerful perk, and I would not be surprised if survivors run it simply because they have nothing else better, or because they just like Jill. I completely disagree with downplaying how much SoloQ survivors would be willing to run it.
However, as of now, I see absolutely no reason to run any hex perks at all. The class of perks are supposed to be high risk, high reward, however it is not balanced that way. Currently it is high risk, virtually no reward. Most hex perks are completely worthless to begin with, so pitiably laughable in power that its stunning wondering why they are attached to a hex at all.
I can only hope some massive hex buff comes out of this because otherwise 9 killer perks are dead in the water.
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208341#Comment_2208341
They don't get a notification until a token is gained for Lullaby, but in all fairness I think it shouldn't alert them until 3 tokens are gotten.
Man why do you have to agree with me, I also agree that it shouldn't be until 3 tokens, similarly to how Devour Hope isn't revealed until the exposed status.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212821#Comment_2212821
Let's not forget that was the same thing with Lucky Break.
I'm not sure what you mean, 180 seconds of use out of the 400 it takes to finish a generator is still enormously powerful and its survivors that are sleeping on how strong it is. However, I will say if it does become meta you'll see a sharp increase of aura reading perks and addons.
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Because the devs are afraid to force survivors to actually gain skill, and tell them the answer is just to git gud instead of gutting everything they don't like.
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Honestly, considering the fact that hex totems, by their nature, are largely preprogrammed location wise and the recent buff to small game making finding hex totems and learning their spawns never before so easy and available to all survivors, that it may be okay to finally allow them to have actual, decently difficult hiding spots to make them a more reasonable secondary objective. Thereby passively nerfing gen speeds in an organic way that can be reduced based on personal skill.(After the small game learning curve.)
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@Babawizwiz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208471#Comment_2208471
Survivor challenges should be a lot easier, having to do 10 gens for 3 fragments at a LVL 2 tome?
Yeah I completely misinterpreted that to begin with, I was like "Oh cool, this will take 2 games to finish, easy peasy". It was not easy peasy. Especially considering at high ranks I only get one MAYBE 2 generators finished personally.
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I love how I can knock out all the killer challenges as farming ghostface trololing (virtually, plague exclusive challenges aside) in one night. But I basically have to throw the entire game as survivor in order to get a FRACTION of progress towards one challenge. Big brain, much balance.
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Why do survivors even get a notification for Huntress Lullaby? The perk isn't all that good, only a clueless survivor wouldn't realize the sound queue was getting shorter.
Do you hear that? Thats how you sound.
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I think nurse is fine, I'm pretty sure if they just reduced the forced downward rotation during her fatigue I'm sure there would be more players, and then gradiation between good and bad nurse players wouldn't feel as jarring. I think the most significant problem is that the skills necessary to counter nurse can only be learned by playing against her, thereby passively increasing the oppressiveness survivors feel when going against a very good nurse. Simply because they are not prepared adequately for the challenge.
The forced downward rotation obstructs the most basic of killer skills namely tracking and awareness, so you basically already have to be intermediate-good as a killer in general before you can even attempt to play nurse.
A lot of people get caught up in the fact that traditional defenses against killers don't generally work on nurse, little recognizing the fact that if you understand how her power works and the following pattern of movement to deal with that, that she is also the only killer you can just run in the open and never be touched.
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You need both perks and killers that disproportionately reward skill input. Why is that? Well its very simple, because those strategies are for new players. These things that are built into the game are made for players to be both relatively simple in execution, and give new players a way to play evenly against players with more experience. These things are called FOOS, first order optimal strategies. Ideally the player base evolves past the need for these strategies because while strong, they are not supposed to be the most powerful or optimal. Instead strategies that are more complex are supposed to give way as the pool of skill and perks expand.
Unfortunately, the second part is not what happens because there is no more complex strategies that are more powerful to be used. Survivors have made sure that any viable killer build has been quickly hamstringed or gutted. And any attempts to do anything with gen speed, thereby increasing the pool of viable perks passively, have been swiftly shut down. So really, this is a product of survivor's shortsightedness as a whole. Now each perk slot must be pulling 400% duty, and nobody gets to have any fun.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2197233#Comment_2197233
That's fine but survivors aren't exactly getting buffs. Also current Wraith is way stronger than most other killers.
Ideally all the killers should be powerful, so they can start buffing survivors too. That's not what happens though.
What do you mean? Survivors literally just had lucky break buffed, and small game buffed, finding/learning spawns/destroying totems has never been easier basically annihilating an already gutted class of killer perks. Just because they are not buffs to your direct playstyle does not mean survivors aren't being buffed.
Just because other killers are weak does not make that Wraith's fault or problem. At a certain point the problem is that the skill floor to play survivor is too low, so any amount of resistance feels extremely uncomfortable.
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Killers basically are forced to run 50% of their perk build as gen defense to even have a chance to generate enough pressure to win. Whether thats ruin/undying, ruin/pop, or pop/corrupt, meanwhile survivors don't even have to match them with a totem finding perk, or a perk like Repressed Alliance to protect gens from pop. Learn some perspective.
On top of that, if you suspect a killer has pop, then don't bother cleansing ruin. Ruin can only do something when killers can generate pressure and the piddly regression Ruin gives does nothing against survivors hammering out the last couple gens together.
Maybe if you don't want these things to work together, killers should get more perk slots so they can more easily generate pressure without the need for gen defense perks.
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2199796#Comment_2199796
The change logs on killer pages generally do not address add-on changes. That doesn't make them incomplete though, it's just not where the wiki people put that information. Wraith's page will only feature changes to him. For add-on changes, you must go to the add-on pages themselves.
BHVR openly admits they balance killers based on their addons, the fact the addon change information is not apart of killer changes makes them incomplete by its nature. I've pointed directly at a very obvious reason I know the list is incomplete that is visible to everyone. I've already admitted that I've possibly conflated PTB changes that may have never gone live in other comments, if thats what happened, then oh well I guess my memory isn't perfect.
I'm going to assume that you have nothing constructive to add as you completely ignored the other 6 paragraphs I wrote.
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198527#Comment_2198527
Unless the wiki tells you that a change log is incomplete, it literally lists all changes that happened to something over the course of the years, since the change logs compile all the information available in the patch notes. What more do you expect here?
You keep pointing to something that is allegedly missing from the wiki, but can't actually name it. Is it possible that you're trying to make something up, since the change log doesn't suit your argument?
I know its not complete because it glosses over the add-on change information. I'm sorry my memory isn't perfect for everything in the game after all these years.
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@Jasix said:
Will survivors get 25% more bloodpoints and emblem progress automatically for actions they do then after a DC?
I mean shouldn't they get that bonus after the DC since they are now having to do 25% more work on gens/rescues/etc?
I'm 100% completely ok with your suggestion IF it also applies to survivor BP for gens/totems/unhooks/heals/chases - since everything becomes more difficult for them when someone DCs. That increased difficulty should result in increased BP by 25% for EACH DC.
I mean fair is fair - if the killer job becomes easier and they get the BP for all hook states (and credit in emblem) - then conversely survivors should get a bonus as well.
Agreed, increasing avenues for survivors to earn bloodpoints in the game would be a positive change. Hopefully at least smooth the learning curve drought where the escape alone can be 50%+ of the points you earned when just starting out.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2197488#Comment_2197488
I linked you a complete change log lol. Are you looking for more details than what's on the wiki?
Nerfing killers doesn't necessarily have to lower their skill ceiling at all. For example, new Nurse requires even more skill to play well than old Nurse despite being weaker. A killer's strength and skill ceiling are pretty unrelated. Ideally the strongest killers would also have a high skill ceiling, but in practice that's often not the case.
I don't like the idea of introducing high-tier killers and buffing survivor to compensate since that does little to shrink the gap between the weakest and strongest killers. It makes a lot more sense to me for the devs to try to introduce mid-tier killers (or at least balance them after launch such that they end up mid-tier) and to bring any killers that are outliers in terms of strength back towards the middle. Then they can buff/nerf survivor/killer to address overall game balance without any killers being too strong or too weak.
What you linked is the wiki for wraith, what it is not is the complete changelog. Its the cliff notes at best, but I don't really think thats the argument at this point. So lets just set it aside.
You need some strong killers with disproportionately rewarded actions for the skill level involved, that is how new players are able to handle coming into an environment with more experienced players. These mechanics are called FOOS, first order optimal strategies. All they do is create a foothold for a new player. Killers like Spirit, Doctor, Oni, and Freddy roughly fit this bill.
My suggestion is not what you are saying. I would not release any new killers until the current ones are raised up to be a high tier and relatively tightly grouped compared to now. Once baseline killer role power is established, from there the new reciprocating role power can be delegated to the 4 survivor slots. (This would include buffing/redesigning perks to fit the changing meta of no low rank killers at all.) From then on, yes I would release fairly powerful killers knowing that survivors have decently strong utility tools to deal with them and only need to learn the new skill curve of the killer.
Fun comes from engagement, engagement comes from the feeling of agency, agency comes from freedom. The more freedom and power a killer has, so too does that translate to the agency a survivor is allowed to have against them. This clashing agency now creates more complex systems of engagement and ultimately leads to fun for both sides.
@[Deleted User] said:
In this analogy there's a clear metric for how to fix the bar: make it straight. In the game, though, the metaphorical bar is already straight enough to attach some gears to it. This might change at some skill levels when MMR comes back, but mid-range killers statistically perform well now (68% average red rank kill rate & 56% average overall kill rate as of late 2020). If we want to make any fine adjustments to that "bar" before addressing killers who are outliers in terms of strength, we risk making the top killers in the game too strong or the weakest killers in the game too weak before they're individually adjusted. On the other hand, there's no downside to buffing weak killers and nerfing strong ones since mid-range killers are already performing reasonably well. Then from there we're in a great place to adjust overall game balance as needed, because balancing the game for one killer should necessarily balance the game for other killers (provided they balance the game with a number of small and well-rounded tweaks rather than heavily nerfing or buffing mechanics that are more impactful to certain killers).
While this is a nice analogy, it does not work in a game like dead by daylight. In fact a more apt description to balancing this game would probably be: Trying to hold water in a perfect sphere with just your hands. All the elements you interact with affect each other, pressure, ripples, and waves resonate through it.
Every killer has their own needs, fixing the game for one would break the game for all other killers. Therefore you have to establish an environment where they can all play to their strengths. You cannot balance strictly by the numbers because the simple matter is that straining for a perfect average assumes the population itself is perfectly averaged, which it never is.
The obvious answer becomes, in that case, to relieve how painful it feels for survivors to be sacrificed. That vaguely translates into more opportunities to earn survival points, and points overall in the short term, but hopefully through increasing the complexity of the killer role the avenues for earning points can become more numerous altogether. I think most players with enough hours in the game would agree that getting 4Ks or surviving every game becomes super boring and they are pretty much over living or dying mattering to them. Its not about the end, its about the journey of the trial, so using kill rates for balance is just going to make a boring game.