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Spite.
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You can see the red stain through walls regardless of crossplay.
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There shouldn't be any such thing as a "nonlethal Rush"
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Because the game is hard coded to end early if there are no other players left on the other side.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1517247#Comment_1517247
Legion takes a little bit of skill if they're injured to down them and free injure when they're healthy
Spirit has a potent tool to help her get hits regardless of her target's state.
Legion gets a completely free first hit and then cries because he has absolutely nothing to finish them other than his knees and a butterknife, so unless they're the kind of baby survivor who goes down to unassisted M1 gameplay at tiles that haven't been burned through yet, he has to burn through every pallet, jungle gym, and exhaustion perk that survivor has at their disposal before he has any real chance to down them.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1517236#Comment_1517236
Spirit is just the opposite of legion, excels at getting downs on injured survivors using her power but some times needs a little help to secure the first hit
Not really.
Spirit kills the ######### out of anyone and everyone, it's just basically free if the survivor is injured and takes a little bit of skill if they're healthy.
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If Spirit could see people in Phase, had a 50% reduced attack CD on her phase attack, and could Phase (but not grudge) again immediately to close the gap caused by the on-hit speed boost.
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If it happened for something less common than starting a chainsaw, I'd love it.
As a noise for getting stunned out of saw, hitting a survivor, or just running into a wall would be fine.
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You realize this would result in a baseline one second fatigue, right?
The reason Nurse's fatigue as short as it is is because Nurse can't just walk at people and M1 them.
If this happened, Legion's gameplay would go like so.
- Legion Frenzies to a guy and hits.
- Legion catches back up.
- Legion fatigues. With him moving at roughly 1 m/s, a 3 meter gap opens.
- Legion starts walking, starts his lunge half a second later, and gets a hit.
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Myers.
If your teammates don't feed him, it's too easy to be an interesting match.
If your teammates do feed him, you just got instagibbed for your teammate's mistakes.
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I just don't find survivor to be interesting. Not only has there effectively not been a new survivor released since the launch of the game (since all of them are the same) it's just not a challenge.
I play it enough that my Ace is maxed out, but I only really play survivor when my friends hop on the game.
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KO is a lifesaver for Hag.
If the survivors see you pick up a survivor via their auras, they will take that as a signal to IMMEDIATELY go berserk and pop every single trap trap they can find in the 15 seconds or so it'll take Lisa to get the survivor on a hook.
With KO, they can't tell the difference between a pickup and a slug unless they're either really close or on comms.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1515927#Comment_1515927
######### is wrong with exhaustion add-ons? Just sounds like survivors are overly reliant on these perks.
Exhaustion add-ons were designed back when Exhaustion recovered while sprinting and wasn't reset on hooks.
They aren't bad in concept, but Huntress having a 90 second debuff is just excessive when it could be 15 seconds and be pretty much just as good.
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There ain't really much to critique here.
I mean, RE would be cool, sure, but the issue isn't that the license is bad, the issue would be gameplay, and there's not much to go off of here.
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@Cardgrey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/178808/should-your-mmr-be-visible
It should not. while I’m sure there’s reason why if you can see you number you can figure out how to control it up and down. that’s info you don’t need just play and have fun
If the system isn't designed terribly, the condition for raising/lowering your MMR shouldn't be something you can easily cheese/manipulate.
If the current matchmaking system is anything to go off of, having a high MMR is absolutely essential to having an enjoyable time in this game, because without it you just get a snoozefest that you win in less time than it took to find the match.
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Yes, you should be able to see the metric by which the game matches you with players.
In every other game with skill based matchmaking (Overwatch, League, Dota, Smash, etc) you can see the number the game assigns as your skill rating (or at least a value that correlates with it).
All we can see right now is rank, which has nothing to do with matchmaking anymore.
Hiding skill ratings is just completely pointless and robs us of any sense of the game recognizing the growth in our skills.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1504522#Comment_1504522
Maybe I should have said "you signal DH when you land a basic attack with at least 3 tokens". I thought that was kinda obvious from the context, but oh well. And since we're nitpicky, you don't need to down someone to signal the perk. They get the notification even if, for example, you hit someone who has the endurance status effect.
You're just describing the problematic mechanic in question as if that brings up a point against the mechanic being problematic.
It doesn't.
This is a feature that can and should be changed.
If nobody's gone down to NoED or DH yet, there's no reason survivors should be automatically informed of it.
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Option 1 is too powerful, since your only options are to camp pallets and get poisoned or run away and get hit.
Option 2 literally would not work. Inverted controls on console are one thing, but one PC it's just completely untenable.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
I would like to argue against Devour Hope being hidden as it is a HEX perk, and it does require quite a lot of input on the killer's side, very much like Make Your Choice.
The fact that it starts with 3 hooks is already a big deal, then we have to also account for the fact that you also have to run away a pretty decent distance from a hook that is really hard to accomplish on some maps such as The Game.
Iridescent coin should still be fine with hiding it, as it does require a very rare requirement of shooting from a long range. Redhead's Pinky should show it, since the killer will be super close anyway. No point hiding it.
...you're saying you're arguing against Devour Hope being hidden, but all you've done is rattle off additional reasons why it should absolutely be hidden.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
Unless it broke recently and I missed the memo, M2 doesn't reveal Noed, only DH, but that's likely an oversight.
As for the other two points and using your same line of reasoning from the earlier part of your OP, there's indeed a signal. You used your basic attack, that's when you reveal your perk. Also, that doesn't change the survivor objective to avoid your attacks.
You don't signal you have DH when you basic attack.
You signal it when you oneshot a survivor using DH.
If you down somebody with the single, normal damage instance from a basic attack, that should in no way signal you have DH.
If you down somebody with a Ghostface mark, it's the same #########.
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What a joke.
These stats are heavily skewed by new/unskilled players, and as such are worthless.
Trapper is only popular among new players. Past that, he's a niche killer that is rarely played at all.
Plague being unpopular is certainly true, but if your statistical model only draws one correct conclusion out of four, that's still a failing grade.
Freddy is certainly a strong killer, but he's not the strongest. He's just pretty strong whilst also being one of the easiest killers in the game.
Nurse being the weakest killer is laughable, and makes this entire post dubious at best. Your interpretation of this graph meaning that Nurse has been "nerfed too heavily" is even more laughable, because this graph was released by the devs literally one month after the Nurse update, meaning the stats were heavily skewed by Baby Nurses getting 0 kills after being booted off of Omegablink cold turkey.
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Stake Out is also pretty nice.
On top of giving you an extra bonus to great skill checks (not great but not bad), it gives a visual indicator of the terror radius
This is great against Oni and Deathslinger, since their TR audio is faint on the edge, and it's just the MVP for any deaf players who are still masochistic enough to play the game.
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@Wubalubadubdub03 said:
Killer main here. Survivors already find both hex perks you mentioned annoying, and this would obviously buff both of them.
Devour Hope in particular shouldnt be changed because you would just hide it until you mori someone, extremely unfun for a survivor and probably a little broken.
I do find it annoying that it reveals devour on injured and m2 hits, but the perks is fine balance wise so you cant just buff it.
You absolutely can buff them.
This is nothing new. Both of these perks have already had this benefit in the past.
It wasn't OP then, and it definitely wouldn't be OP now, since DH still never lasts long enough to do anything and NoED has only gotten worse.
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DC penalties should go, but not for survivors and not for this reason.
You can't force somebody to play out a match they don't want to.
If a survivor is going to DC, but doesn't want the penalty, they just get themselves sacrificed and move on. Since this does a little bit more for the team they're leaving behind, this is a net positive, so survivors should have DC penalties.
If a killer wants to bypass DC penalties (say it's a Huntress who sees an instant OoO on Midwich), they just go AFK and waste even MORE of everybody's time.
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@IIITweedleIII said:
I just cant my head around how Legion cant vault windows. But can run along walls 🤔 (and jump)
You can't perform a vault action, but all vault points are low enough to the ground that you can clear them with a jump.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1471819#Comment_1471819
So where's the balance?
You've just nerfed the perk, what if the killer had NOED and downed 2 of us as soon as I was off the hook.
There are many scenarios where DS has saved my life from unfair circumstances. I'm still waiting to see what the BALANCE part in your post is.
2 nerfs to a perk isn't a balance. I never stated I was working on a gen, or healing someone, or jumping in a locker. I'm slugged while the killer is hooking someone else and my DS is gone?
Why? Because killers want a perk nerfed because it's so difficult to count to 60? Because they fail to go for someone else and just proxy camp the hook, I should be punished for it?
The balance is that it's getting straight nerfs because it's too good.
Yes, we can "beat" your DS by standing over your body for 60 seconds.
If you actually think about that for a moment, you realize killers don't have 60 seconds to waste.
If the counter to a perk is "throw the game to spite this #########", it's too good.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
- Perk now deactivates if you enter a locker, start healing another survivor, or start repairing a generator.
- Perk now deactivates if another survivor is hooked.
So my perk deactivates when I, a solo survivor, was farmed by another survivor and am now slugged on the floor as the survivor that unhooked me is getting hooked and the killer is making his way to me and there I am, slugged with no DS.
Seems fair to me. Any upsides to this nerf?
Seems like just a blatant nerf with no balance changes.
If you got farmed and the killer tries to tunnel you and put you right back on the hook... DS still works.
DS is supposed to be an anti tunneling perk. This just means that it's less useful if you're not being tunneled.
- If you feel safe enough to start a healing party or generator repairs, you aren't being tunneled.
- If you feel ballsy enough to jump in a locker and get the killer's attention, you aren't being tunneled.
- If the killer literally went out and hooked a different survivor you DEFINITELY aren't being tunneled.
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@ Antares2332 said:
We're Gonna Live Forever: it seems good to me as it is now because people only use it for the point multiplier.
dh: If they do that, I definitely stop using that perk lol, because it would be like giving him a free hit.
fire on: is this a nerf or a buff? because this perk nobody uses it and if it changes like this, less they will use it. I would say just increase your speed.
Monstrous Shrine: the length of the stairs increases? Are you saying that the basement will have to go lower? because yes, I am sure it could generate many errors if the devs put it.
Shadowborn: there is already a perk similar to this and it is motorization and abuse.
Monitor and abuse: this is very op, when the survivors listen to the terror radius, the killer is about to give a hit.
the rest of the perks seem excellent to me.
DH: If by "giving him a free hit" you mean "Giving the survivor a free health state", yes that's true. I fail to see how this is bad.
Fire Up: This is a massive buff. It goes from doing basically nothing to turning you into a monster every time a gen gets done.
Monstrous Shrine: Funhouse ######### happens in the basement, yes. This shouldn't be much harder to code than gens opening doors on The Game.
Shadowborn: Similar in purpose, but very difficult in function. You use this with other Undetectable effects to have the stealth linger a bit longer, or as a pseudo Whispers.
Monitor: This version of the perk is, in no way, shape, or form, overpowered. It's strictly worse than the old version (even if only at low tiers).
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@ Antares2332 said:
We're Gonna Live Forever: it seems good to me as it is now because people only use it for the point multiplier.
dh: If they do that, I definitely stop using that perk lol, because it would be like giving him a free hit.
fire on: is this a nerf or a buff? because this perk nobody uses it and if it changes like this, less they will use it. I would say just increase your speed.
Monstrous Shrine: the length of the stairs increases? Are you saying that the basement will have to go lower? because yes, I am sure it could generate many errors if the devs put it.
Shadowborn: there is already a perk similar to this and it is motorization and abuse.
Monitor and abuse: this is very op, when the survivors listen to the terror radius, the killer is about to give a hit.
the rest of the perks seem excellent to me.
How is this version of Monitor OP?
It's literally the same perk, but without the FOV modifier and with a lower TR modifier at low tiers.
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@Kellie said:
One question, why is Ruin not with the killer perk nerfs? It is a lot stronger than it was before.
Because Ruin does not need any nerfs.
- Despite gen-slow being in highest demand in the early game, Ruin only really kicks in during the mid-late game.
- Despite being a mid-late game perk, it's a hex... meaning you'd be lucky if it lasts 3 minutes.
- Despite both of those downsides, it is also easily countered by just holding M1. Even if you get chased off the gen, a buddy can pick up the repairs soon after. Hell, you can also kinda counter it with Repressed Alliance.
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BBQ ain't OP.
They just need to take BP gains off of BBQ and make them baseline so people don't HAVE to run the perk to have a less unreasonable grind.
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Ormond
Giant map with absolutely no dead zones and ground against which scratch marks are invisible.
Asylum
A central building with several completely safe pallets and strong windows, accessible from any location on the map via the post-hit sprint.
Every Coldwind map
Contains Corn, which is basically opaque from the killer's POV. Every main Coldwind structure except Thompson House has the potential to spawn an overpowered window loop, while Thompson House always spawns several safe pallets around it.
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Blood Warden is fine.
The only problem is that the devs forgot about the ability to 99 exit gates.
Make the exit gate action reset on interruption and it's fine.
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@Peanits said:
I have to ask, what kind of cooldown does the Plague have? You could puke back to back all you like.
And to play devil's advocate, a lot of the perks you mentioned have strict activation conditions that need to be met before they can activate. Something like Unbreakable can only activate if the killer slugs someone for a while and can only be used once, PGTW requires you to hook someone first so there's already effectively a cooldown in terms of how quickly you can down and hook people.
I don't mind cooldowns where they make sense, personally. The Doctor's a great example of it. He doesn't have a cooldown on his normal Shock Therapy, only on Static Blast. If Static Blast had no cooldown, it would break the game. You could sit there and spam Static Blast over and over and the survivors would never be able to do gens.
Plague doesn't have CD's. She has a bit of a recovery time, but that's it. The guy is off on that point.
As for perks, some of the CD's are absolutely overkill.
- Dark Devotion doesn't need the restriction that you must wait until it wears off to trigger it again. You need to M1 the obsession to trigger it, which is hard enough.
- I'm All Ears has a CD that is really quite long. It's not terribly unreasonable for its effect and ease of access, but it is there.
- Thrilling Tremors has a 60 second CD despite its restriction of having to down a survivor. I get you've gotta stop the killer from dribbling survivors for several triggers per slugs, but you know there are better ways around this than a flat-out 60 second CD. Make it so when you trigger the perk on a survivor, you can't trigger it on them again until they've either wiggled out or gotten off of a hook.
- Surge has a 40 second CD. WHY? To trigger the perk, you need to:
- Down a survivor
- Do so with a basic attack
- Do so within 32 meters of a progressed generator
- ...and yet it also has a 40 second CD, even though its effect is barely mediocre if I'm being generous.
- Zanshin Tactics has a 20 second CD. This one is pretty reasonable, so I'll let it slide.
- Blood Echo has a 60 second CD, despite how you need to not only have a guy on the hook, not only need there to be other injured survivors, but also need those injured survivors to be running Exhaustion perks. That last one isn't usually a big catch, since they're so strong that everyone runs them, but hey.
- Similar to Dark Devotion, Gearhead and Dead Man's Switch can't be triggered again while their old durations are still active.
- Any Means Necessary has a 120 second CD. C'mon, this should be 60 at most.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119181#Comment_1119181
Wait Reddit is full of survivors?
I feel like I've seen the complete opposite.
Reddit is full of Shitposters and not much else.
Anybody trying to discuss gameplay usually gets kept in low upvote ranges due to survivor downvote bombing.
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Of course the forum is biased towards killers.
That's what happens when the devs are biased towards survivors and, unlike Reddit, the numbers of the survivor playerbase can't downvote vocal killers into oblivion for saying that "this obviously overpowered thing is overpowered."
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@senki527 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115557#Comment_1115557
agree 100% ! the streamers get constantly 4k as killers, they have skill and know how to play. and if they lose 1 game they suddenly complain how unfair it is for killers. this is the very truth, i don't know why every killer wants to 4k every game!
Because those streamers are skilled players playing against the same survivors everybody else is fighting.
90% of the time it doesn't matter how overpowered the survivors are because the players piloting them are just trash.
The other 10% of the time, the survivors know how to play the game, and as a result not only does the killer lose, they lose without ever having had the chance to win.
That is what we're complaining about. The devs balance around players who aren't good, which means that those players don't need to improve and that the players who have improved to a certain level more or less just auto-win.
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You intentionally lose a game every now and again.
Maybe you play Wraith and define a "win" as "the Rancor guy died".
Maybe you play Myers with the rule that "I'm not allowed to move until I'm T3".
Maybe you play Bubba and guard the basement chest above all else.
Maybe you play Legion.
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In my opinion, the release of Bubba and the Freddy rework.
On release, people thought Bubba was just a worse version of Billy. Some people tried to say otherwise, but here we are two and a half years later and that is literally the case. It was a lazy paragraph that did nothing other than add some good perks and a killer for them to completely neglect.
Old Freddy was weak, but he wasn't bad. His problem wasn't that what he had was bad, it's that he was missing tons of #########. What they made was an incredible baseline for an adaptation of Freddy into a video game, but they completely forgot to give him an actual goddamn ability.
The rework was a total waste of potential, and the new Freddy is just bland as #########, not at all true to the character.
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It's going through a wall, which makes it snap really quickly.
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@Hsizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1097131#Comment_1097131
imagine thinking oni and spirit arent A tier 🤡
If both of those killers were allowed to exist in their current states alongside old Ruin, yes I'd put them in A-tier.
The problem is that Ruin isn't around anymore.
Spirit is strong as ######### in chase, but she's one of the worst killers in the game for getting around the map without specific, high level add-ons. If you're Spirit on Ormond, there's a good chance you lose two gens before you even find a guy.
Oni is super strong in chase when he has his power, but he doesn't get his power until he gets a couple hits in, a task for which he is equipped with... absolutely nothing. He has one of the worst early games of any killer, only really surpassed by Myers in that regard. His first map patrol is slow, and his chase game is terrible until he manages to win a chase. If the survivors are being Pepegas and let him get hits on two different survivors within 30 seconds? He's great. If they play pallets safe? He's stuck as an M1 killer for the first 3 minutes, and between his weak chase and the necessity to farm your first injury for Blood, good luck getting your first down against good survivor before 3 gens are popped.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098885#Comment_1098885
Except for one hit downs, exhaustion add ons and perks, and catching them out of position. Sometimes the pallet rng will favor them but that doesn't mean you're helpless. You can lead them in a certain direction. There's also been plenty of situations where I or someone else DH past a pallet and still get hit as we're throwing it down.
Most of the roster doesn't have a one-shot.
Most of the roster doesn't have exhaustion add-ons, and the exhaustion PERKS that exist are terrible.
Dead Hard doesn't solve terrible positioning the way Sprint Burst does, but you shouldn't have to rely on survivors mispositioning to have a chance.
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098805#Comment_1098805
Thing is in situations like these the problem is more with the map design than with the actual perk. And it takes skill to realize and plan your path optimal to use DH like that. Good survivors are capable of combining several loops to a maximum use, instead of playing from loop to loop like a bot. Countering that would require the killer to realize such combinations and try to break them as a killer, if possible. But still it's more of a map design issue which is less relevant on some maps than others.
Perks and maps can be broken at the same time.
Maps are definitely broken. Nobody questions that.
Dead Hard for distance is effectively a third health state, which is just plain busted.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098621#Comment_1098621
What is the counter to Haunted Grounds? Not cleansing it? Ok so you leave Ruin or potentially Devour Hope up. If somebody else cleanses it, which you have no control over, then there's now an additional totem for NOED you have to find.
I'm not saying Haunted Grounds is very strong. But not cleansing it is not a realistic counter the majority of the time. Unless you and your SWF notice there's no ongoing hex effect AND you know there's two lit totems.
The counter to Dead Hard is baiting it out, catching the survivor out of position so they can't use it to reach a pallet, or using perks or add ons that cause exhaustion. If you're a killer with the ability to one hit down then DH is often made completely useless.
Not cleansing it, or just playing safe on pallet loops for the next 60 seconds rather than trying to milk out every possible bit of value and dying for it.
"Baiting it out" only counters Dead Hard if they're using it to dodge hits.
If they're using it to cover distance to a pallet, there is no counterplay.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1098546#Comment_1098546
Haunted Grounds is not a good comparison at all.
And calling Nurse bad shows you don't understand the game.
It's pretty much on the head.
Dead Hard buys you +1 health state per chase.
Haunted Ground applies -1 health state.
The difference is that you can counter Haunted Ground, while a Dead Hard for distance can only be countered by exhaustion add-ons.
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@Pulsar said:
I think it is completely fair. If a Survivor uses it skillfully, they get a big reward. If they use it out of panic, they get mega-punished.
On the Killer side, I feel like I can bait it out and if I swing and they Dead Hard, I don't feel cheated. I feel like, yeah, that was on me, good play.
Thing is, they don't have to use it skillfully.
If they use it to get distance to a pallet when they should have gone down, that doesn't exactly take any skill, has nothing the killer can do to counter it, and can easily extend chases by at least 30-40 seconds.
When that ######### happens, you bet your ass I feel cheated. I got robbed of a hit, a down, because they pressed a button and went from being "unsafe" to being "completely safe". About the same feeling as when somebody Sprint Bursts away in an open field, or when a guy with DS jumps in az locker.
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@Frankie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1097131#Comment_1097131
Freddy is A tier, Nurse is still S tier. You just have to be an S tier Nurse player for her to be S tier.
Nurse hasn't been S tier since they gutted her map mobility. She's still the best in the game, but she definitely isn't overpowered.
Freddy is an M1 killer. As good as he is, he relied on Ruin quite a bit.
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As of right now, because of the recent nerfs to Nurse/Spirit, the removal of Ruin, and the fluctuating state of Oni...
S tier (busted): crickets
A tier (strong): The Nurse, The Hillbilly
B tier (somewhat good): The Oni, The Spirit, The Nightmare, The Huntress, The Doctor, The Demogorgon
C tier (somewhat weak): The Hag, The Plague, The Wraith, The Ghost Face
D tier (very weak): The Pig, The Shape, The Trapper
F tier (trolling): The Cannibal, The Legion, The Clown
Before the update that got rid of Ruin, lots of killers would have been placed one or more tiers higher than where they were, but now that that's gone they simply don't have time.
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The worst part is just how much the survivors in this community gaslight you.
If you go on the subreddit and say that something survivors have it too strong, or that something a killer has needs buffs, they will come out in droves and flame you like you're some ######### moron for thinking it.
They've been doing this kind of ######### for years, even with ######### from way back
"######### do you mean MoM is overpowered can you not handle having to hit them one more time it's only been out for two weeks learn to play."
"######### do you mean Leatherface is weak I'll have you know I'm rank 1 and I 4k with him every game lol learn to play."
"Pallet vacuum is OP? Lol you're seriously complaining about a core mechanic of the game? Learn to play."
"Forgot this part: 'All 4 survivors now get spawned hooked in the basement. They each get a 0.000009% chance to get themselves off the hook'"
(This last one is a direct quote btw)
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NoED is bullshit.
Thing is, NoED is the only perk killers have that is definitely bullshit, and while it isn't reliably counterable, it's not exactly reliable.
On the other hand, survivor perks routinely provide power on par with NoED, but do so reliably and with even less counterplay.