Ayodam
Ayodam
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3-genning itself isn’t the problem or even a gripe the devs have. They don’t want killers going into the game with the intent of creating these impossible scenarios for survivors to deal with. People have held 3-gens for upwards to an hour—sometimes until the game servers literally just end the match. And that is becoming more common. It’s a problem. That’s why the devs are looking into it. Killer mains did this to themselves.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437753#Comment_3437753
because I should not be blinded by a survivor shining that ######### at the back of my head
Maybe latency? Kind of like hit validation at windows. That favor killers.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437731#Comment_3437731
The 'chase' is the pvp part of the 1v4 PvP game. If you aren't playing to enjoy the chase, what are you playing for?
Kicking gens? Holding a 3 gen for an hour?
You don't want to mind game at a loop, or have the survivor hold w away from that loop either. That basically leaves griefing as the 'fun' part.
I'm genuinely curious why someone would insist on playing a pvp game if you are actively saying the pvp part isn't fun in any capacity.
You’re missing the part where as the power role one‘s fun comes from subjugating others. Denying other players the ability to play is what really makes killer mains come alive. That’s why they do it. Over and over again. And that’s why they’re railing so hard against BHVR stepping in to stop that.
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How do you know they’re ‘impossible’ if you can’t see them from the survivor’s angle?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437606#Comment_3437606
As I said, it's only active in a limited area and only as long as the boon is active. These are 2 massive downsides, that render the perk too situational to be good. That is not the case with Made For This.
Personally, I think Dark Theory is quite comparable to Made for This. True, DT exists in a finite area. But a limited area is a place where a survivor would be looping, at least partially. Unless they’re running you across the map which would be humiliating & have zero to do with any perk.
I’ll concede that Dark Theory requires some strategy. But Made for This does too. And it doesn’t increase vault speed. What it does do is exchange a health state for a small boost to running forward. So maybe it’s better for hold W strategies but I think Dark Theory is more beneficial for looping.
In any case, you’re giving hysteria & fear mongering. And that’s distressing. I hope you laughed cuz you’re a killer main. :)
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437721#Comment_3437721
Reassurance has literally became base kit for me lol
Kinship is better IMO but anything helps. Can’t wait till these anti-camp measures are implemented. And while I’ll camp strategically, I understand it’s miserable to face at any point of a match.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437651#Comment_3437651
That’s what I’m saying lol.
Someone on my team gets camped or tunneled out of at least half my games if not more.
@Dogma_loki said:
I sometimes wonder if I am even playing the same game as posters on this forum or if people are intentionally being disingenuous.
I get hard tunneled all the time. (straight off the unhook) And if its not me, its one of the randoms Im playing with.
Proxy camped a majority of the time in any given hook.
Face camp in endgame all the time.
Face camp in regular match is less common, perhaps once or twice out of 10 matches.
Right? It’s exceptionally common to see camping (of either stripe) and tunneling.
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@Xernoton said:
I have yet to see anyone complain about Quick Gambit, Friendly Competition and Cut Loose. The other perks all are or were extremely abusable. The reason you don't see them often is because most survivor groups are not good enough to utilize them. This is partly because SWFs benefit way more from these effects.
The new perks are ridiculous. Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again. Or maybe we don't need build to last anymore and run Scavenger instead. Saving 20 seconds on a gen is not enough, let's go with 40. Keep in mind that everyone can do this for the low price of one perk and one item. You do not need to dedicate entire builds to gen rushing when you can do it that easy and save 160 seconds (of 450 seconds).
I mean Dark Theory allows survivors to run faster (and vault faster too) yet I’ve seen that perk used only once since Yoichi released. And that one doesn’t even require a survivor to be injured.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436646#Comment_3436646
pretty much how survivors like waiting in lobby for hours when all killers quit or those like me just play survivor but if the wait time to long I wouldn't bother.
Replace them (killer mains) with bots. 🥱 It would be more engaging than dealing with campers/tunnelers anyway.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436146#Comment_3436146
The thing is, the devs aim for a kill rate of about 60%, they had that given the last numbers we got, and then they nerfed dh, and self healing. So those numbers might very well be of that 60% in favor of killer, and these changes might be to correct that back to the 60%. Ever thought of that? I doubt the devs favor any side, because they want as much people as possible to play the game.
This makes too much sense. I really believe that the kill rate is higher than what the devs want so they’re trying to help survivors without rolling back specific nerfs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435978#Comment_3435978
I agree maps like RPD (specifically when you get a Gen downstairs and upstairs in the main lobby) can be too oppressive 3 Gen wise for survivors. But the solution should surely be to reduce overall map size and make defending all gens actually possible?
Playing a lot of the roster, especially M1 killers, and especially those without mobility, it is impossible to defend all gens. I am almost certain that it is expected for killers to ignore far away gens/gens in bad spots and to try and create dead zones within an area of the map that is easier to defend. Again, it feels like the devs have bought into the argument that “the chase” is everything in this game. Defending certain areas, not chasing like a headless chicken is all part of a killer’s strategy. Are we really supposed to think the likes of Hag and Trapper shouldn’t be playing this way?
IMO four survivors should be able to break a 3 gen- the only ones who don’t are usually solo potatoes or cowards who won’t create even pressure on the killer and are waiting for their teammates to do it. The only exception to this is maybe skull merchant- which goes back to my original point. The latest full release killer is best played by 3 genning. Did the devs really not realise this was going to happen?
Killers and maps will need major reworks if they don’t fairly address this issue long term.
Wait. How does shrinking maps reduce 3-genning? Less space means more gens spawn closer together as gens have less surface space to load into. If anything shrinking maps makes 3-genning easier. Which is exactly what happened to RPD and New Haddonfield (this one was changed but they can’t really change RPD to prevent the 3-gen that always forms b/c there’s no where else for the gens to go).
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@Seraphor said:
I find it incredulous that a nerf to a healing perk is to blame for genrushing.
This wasn't an issue before Circle of Healing was added to the game and completely changed the healing meta and hit-and-run landscape, so why is it an issue now?
Probably because it’s a better gamble for survivors to ignore healing to focus on gen repair. Healing up was a side objective for survivors. Killers who aren’t able to pressure their games well suffer most, but all killers are affected.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434794#Comment_3434794
Killer stays +100% on PS5 during the evening, weekends included.
Do you believe the number of players are evenly distributed across Morning, Afternoon, & Evening?
Because if you believe the majority of players are playing in the evening, the other numbers do not hold equal weight.
Killer isn’t always 100% during weekends. In my area, that vacillates. It’s not always 100% during evenings either. Sometimes it’s 50%, or there isn’t a bonus for either side.
People play on the weekends more than any time during the week. Where I live the incentive dithers between killer & survivor even on weekends, sometimes hourly.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434742#Comment_3434742
6.1.0 was a wide scale meta shake up for every one, but it wasn't even remotely similar to the likes of base kit BT and new anti-camp function that we can start testing tomorrow. You've not undermined my point and I don't know why you want to make this some weird Us vs Them own when I'm literally speaking from a position that favors survivors if anything.
I’m not making it us vs. them; in responding directly to things you’ve said. Let’s follow a rudimentary line of logic: Why did survivors received basekit BT? What did BHVR specifically say when they announced that feature? They explained why it was a thing given to survivors—do you remember the language around why it was to be a basekit feature? If not I can summon someone to remind you. Now, let’s consider the anti-camping measure. This one is fresh so you should easily find the answers to the questions I’m about to ask. Why did BHVR say they’re implementing this one? Take your time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432432#Comment_3432432
Then why is the Killer at +100% BP every single night?
For the same reason survivor is +100 BP every day/morning and on weekends.
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It was probably latency. It usually works in favor of the killer but sometimes survivors’ come out on top with it.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434653#Comment_3434653
Do what now? How is this remotely relevant to anything I've just said?
I literally wrote disagreeing with the notion of giving killers a universal base kit solution to gen rushing and responded to someone making a claim that killers had gotten such types of buffs in the past.
You:
”Killers haven't really gotten anything that matches the universal base kit additions of survivors.”
Not true. Patch 6.1.0 was full of deliberate killer buffs that provided what were essentially basekit perks analogous to the survivor’s receiving basekit perks.
Me, in response to this statement, which tbh undermines your whole point:
All of the basekit improvements survivors have received are in direct response to restrictive killer playstyles (camping and tunneling). If killers weren’t heavily restricting survivor gameplay, I’m confident survivors would not have received these QoL changes. This is the monster you’ve created (plural you). Now you (plural) must suffer for your hubris.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Tunneling and camping are the maximum pressure on one survivor and the least amount of pressure on the other survivors you can possibly have without being literally afk.
If you do nothing but stand at a hook or wait for an unhooker (or the unhook), you dedicate your time to the 2 survivors who are already not doing gens, leaving the other 2 completely alone and free of any danger whatsoever...
What do you genuinely think the other 2 are going to do if they don't see the killer? Stand there afk waiting politely near a hook for you? They're going to do gens if they want to survive.
Leave the hook and chase a survivor who would otherwise do gens. After a year of gen kick meta, I don't think I can say this loud enough: gens aren't the killer's objective in this game, the survivors are.
Can you say this a little louder? Killers are so fixated on the damn generators when they should be obsessed with the survivors. Every improve they’ve received points to BHVR trying to remind them that pursuing survivors—not regressing generators—is their functional goal.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/376303/when-do-killers-get-basekit-anti-gen-rush
Not gonna lie, I don't think there is a healthy way to just give killers a universal base kit solution to gen rushing.
You would be better served by looking at either restructuring survivor objective in some way or doing a targeted rework of on toolboxes or gen regression. Personally, I'd rather have a rework to gen regression where in the early game it is fairly strong, but gets weaker over time as I do feel killers do need to be a bit more proactive to gain benefit of that nature. I also realize certain killers just can't keep up and that goes to more nuanced design issue that is best solved directly rather than a blanket universal semi-solution. I think we may be at a point in DBD where concepts like 110% movement speed killers shouldn't be a thing anymore and perks should either be doing more niche force multiplying effects or be reworked/tuned to be generally less specific by overall more useful.
Hexes have sort of been bullied out of killer kits with a few exceptions, gen regression across the board has been severely cut so I think doing a mix of targeted adjustments on both sides would bring better results.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434487#Comment_3434487
Killers haven't really gotten anything that matches the universal base kit additions of survivors. You can give killers a universally buff while Nurse, Spirit, and Blight exists because ultimately the three of them do not constitute the majority of play space by design won't really suffer or gain drastic benefits. That is the problem with being that good, things that aren't specifically targeted to you just don't really effect you all that much.
By design it is pretty hard to give killers any sort of universal buff because the problems killers have often even if the overall outcome is the same the causes and symptoms are different. So unless I'm missing something it would be cool if you can elaborate on what exactly you consider a base kit buff for killers that has actually happened.
Keep in mind that the rework to medkits and self healing while beneficial to killers isn't something that should be considered a base kit buff. That's a negative survivor balance change as it doesn't directly give killers anything it just makes the overall play more reasonable.
All of the basekit improvements survivors have received are in direct response to restrictive killer playstyles (camping and tunneling). If killers weren’t heavily restricting survivor gameplay, I’m confident survivors would not have received these QoL changes. This is the monster you’ve created. Now you must suffer for your hubris.
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@Tsulan said:
They teased something about BBQ during the stream, but didn´t follow up on it.
I mean, pre nerf BBQ was the incentive to leave the hook back then. I still wonder why they thought it would be a good idea to remove it. But here we are.
Even with BBQ people were still camping. It was still a better path to victory (3v1) than actually hunting down other survivors.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432801#Comment_3432801
To be fair, these face camp changes, as they are, just encourage bleedouts.
Weren’t killers already doing that too? Lol.
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along with what others have said, she’s also really loud. And her base perks suck.
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I’ve never seen it in game or during a player’s stream but I think it’s possible. It would probably be super rare and reliant on a combination of luck & player (Bubba) mistakes. But idk Bubba is a very forgiving killer. You can make mistakes while playing him and still easily manage at least a 1K.
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Bring Unbreakable or Exponential.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433132#Comment_3433132
Why is the term "face camping" being used, if the system goes out 16 meters? How on earth is that face camping?
Isn’t that just from the basement hook to like the top of the stairs?
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It’s gonna be super hard because you need coordination. Basically you have to keep her away from the 3-Gen and have your teammates whittle away at it.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433060#Comment_3433060
Lower pick rate doesn't mean a perk is bad. It's just they've usually been outshined by the more selfish perks.
Youre right: Kinship isn’t bad. It’s better than Reassurance.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433060#Comment_3433060
According to nightlight, reassurance has a roughly 3.5% pickrate and kinships got about a 0.5% one. Pickrate doesnt determine value anyways, reassurance isnt as fun to use as other perks so people use it less. Plus reassurance is a kinship that you get to trigger, automatically making it way better. Kinship is way less good because it relies on teammates knwoing you have it, something hard with soloq, and playing around it. Reassurance requires 2 things 1. equip 2. press f. All things triggered by the user, allowing for it to be used in scenarios its needed most instead of relying on teammates to do it for you. Kinship can also only activate on the user, meaning only one survivor can get value. Reassurance can be triggered on all survivors except yourself, with the control completely in the users hands. reassurance is goated.
isn’t nightlight that website people insist isn’t reliable b/c it’s user-reported data?
in any event my point is that Reassurance is hardly worth running for a number of reasons. It isn’t a good anti-camp perk. Really, Kinship is better. And that isn’t good either.
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What confuses me is that I’ve seen so many killer mains here in this very forum complaining about survivor DCs + requesting that bots replace them. And I’ve seen them complain that facecamping should be punished as well. Now, here we are and yet there are complaints.. from those very same killer mains. Can someone explain this to me?
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433055#Comment_3433055
I hope it does, reassurance is a very good perk even with all its restrictions. It both counters camping and removes pressure at the click of a button, really good. Hook pressure is good bc it gets 2 of gens, hooked and unhooker. So reassurance gets you 30 seconds of 3 people repairing instead of 2 while coutnering camping. Reassurance is great game design, they really should take a page from its book with these changes.
It’s so good that it’s a rare perk. Like Kinship.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433049#Comment_3433049
I mean, if you're paying attention to what perks they're using.
So this ultra specific scenario where a random survivor needs to be able to identify a specific killer’s base load out from limited interactions? I don’t even see pro teams accurately guess killer loadouts.
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It’ll probably function like Reassurance with the same restrictions, so fret naught. It’ll be just as useful as that perk. And killers can continue camping to their merry little heart’s content.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
Survivors dc'ing doesn't count as kills sadly which is why you see a number of people DC against adept killers - they know dc'ing takes the adept away
First of all, how on earth would any DCing survivor know that a killer they’re facing is going for an adept?
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Is it gonna be like with Reassurance where you can still camp from above basement?
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
I agree that the camping goods etc should get a nerf...but I hope they also buff other killer activities (either chase, gen defense, scouting, etc) . If it's just a nerf and killers aren't given anything I'd be super disappointed
Why would killers receive buffs or anything in compensation for… face camping nerfs? Lol.
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@Crazewtboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432297#Comment_3432297
In case you haven't noticed mate, this isn't a movie. Movie logic doesn't apply here, and the entity wouldn't exactly have mercy on survivors. Regardless though, doesn't change the fact it is a pity escape and a fair chance for such should never be a thing
Yeah, but a lot of people use horror film tropes to rationalize why killers deserve 4Ks. It seems when this logic is used to support survivor escapes, the arguments are about how the game isn’t a horror film. There’s bias.
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@C3Tooth said:
Complaining about Bots that replacing DC players is a new level...People are getting used to 3v1 games.
And isn’t the bot replacements something many killer mains here asked for?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431702#Comment_3431702
Define "tunnel" this is where the problem is survivors think tunneling is going after them when they are doing anything but generators.
But if the killer is hard tunneling you, explain to me how getting 50 meters of between the basekit BT and getting hit isn't punishing the killer from tunneling you? Meanwhile the other survivors work on gens. If you can't loop and are bad at the game so you go down super quick that is on YOU. Basekit BT gives you plenty of time to get to a loop before the killer can down you again.
I read the first three words of your comment then stopped. The rest just doesn’t matter at all. And I’m not playing your game. You’re moving the goalpost.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431008#Comment_3431008
Tunneling has already been addressed from the basekit BT, 10 seconds, moving at 110% movement speed and being immune to hits or getting a speed boost is plenty of time to get to another loop. And if you suck at looping thats a you problem. Camping is going to be addressed in a later update as they already mentioned with the new anti-camping mechanic.
So can we address the gen speeds now?
Basekit BT doesn’t stop tunneling at all. During the Gen regress META, when survivors had basekit BT, killers still tunneled extremely efficiently.
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@That_One_Friend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431586#Comment_3431586
Cant watch the stream for a few more hours: did they mention anything about survivors killing themselves on hook?
Can’t stop that
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@katoptris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431309#Comment_3431309
Ds and dead hard won't stop me from tunneling you fyi. You're better off running sprint and hoping your team finish gens.
Same here. Like DS and DH are laughable now. They’re definitely not stopping a tunnel.
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@Firellius said:
The problem with anti-tunnel perks is that they sit in your load-out, doing nothing if you run across a killer that doesn't tunnel, or you're not the tunnel target. And even if they do trigger, they've been nerfed down to make sure the killer can overcome the value they provide, despite these perks being the most counterplayable perks in the game.
How many killers bring Lightborn against teams that don't bring flashlights in?
I’ve never understood the point of these so-called ‘anti-tunnel’ perks. They don’t help with that at all. Idk why they’re so weak b/c BHVR swears they don’t want players quickly tunneled out of matches
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431302#Comment_3431302
bruh bro, 2 of these perks win your team at least 25 seconds, and if you can loop, then much more, so stop calling good perks bad just because you're bad
This is all sorts of wrong.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
How do tunneling and Sloppy relate exactly? If you can't heal, OtR has you covered.
No it doesn’t. Lol.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430645#Comment_3430645
Visual terror radius has proven to be pretty strong against Sadako.
Isn’t that only because she has a lullaby (she shouldn’t)?
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430877#Comment_3430877
To be fair, all three of these are heavily survivor sided and could use some rebalancing.
for Borgo, the colors def need to be toned down. I don’t get why map reworks took out the colored hues and then this gets introduced?
also, for accessibility scratch mark- and aura colors should probably be adjustable anyway which would already make this map a little bit more bearable.
I’ve always thought they were intentionally survivor-sided. Kind of like how RPD, Midwich, and Lery’s are killer-sided.
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Killer mains dislike Garden of Joy and Gideon way more.
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Just remove her lullaby, BHVR.
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Basekit killer instinct isn’t an accessibility feature. It’s a huge buff. The visual terror radius doesn’t give survivors information they don’t already have (assuming they aren’t deaf), but giving killer instinct or some other ‘visual’ auditory feature wouldn’t have the same effect because blind people aren’t playing DBD.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430363#Comment_3430363
Then why make this thread at all? He literally gave you a legitimate reason for it. Yes he -could- have let you go free after but he doesn't need to.
More us vs them.
It’s someone’s experience and that person saying they had a challenge doesn’t excuse the toxicity.