Ayodam
Ayodam
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773509#Comment_3773509
I mean yeah the killer can go after you after you Blast Mine them but you have so much distance, why would they even try?
As for your other point, no, the point is Distortion counters too much, and too well. It is very difficult to actually end up exhausting all of the Tokens even if the Killer is running multiple aura reading perks.
There is a lot of aura reading, yes, but having a perk that almost unconditionally counters it all, completely passively, without ever needing to interact with the killer, is not a good thing.
Even if they added a chase requirement, it would allow you to stop Aura reading perks for a big chunk of the trial, you'd just need to actually take your turn in being chased by the killer from time to time.
I don’t really know about having “so much distance” from a 3 second stun that still highlights your positioning to the killer doing much, really. Maps are much smaller, loops have been made weaker, and killers can have easily activated aura-reading perks/add-ons. This isn’t 2016 DBD anymore.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773579#Comment_3773579
Still 50+ Mins wait time it is getting WORSE no improving
If its 50/50 you failed your job its supposed to be 40/60
It’s supposed to be whatever the devs want at the time. Two years ago the killrate to escape rate was 50/50. It’s unlikely to remain 60/40 forever.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773438#Comment_3773438
I haven't read his piece, but as a Pyramid Head main myself, I am pretty good at predicting Pyramid Heads cages and if I want to tunnel, I can usually beeline in the right direction.
The cages aren't a perfect solution, I never said that, but they are a much better solution then not having them. I find the 8v2 cages a bit harder to track down then real Pyramid Head cages, I think they have more of an RNG radius in that they can spawn, then spawning in the furthest part of the map, but it could also be that the cages spawn furthest away from both killers (I really don't know), which would sometimes lead to them appearing suboptimal.
I would love to try a balanced approach: let the killer stomp survivors on first hook, relieving a bit of pressure from both sides and making it harder to purposefully tunnel someone hard, but mostly keep the hook gameplay intact. ACTUALLY, now that I think about it, the disappearing of the hooked survivor and respawning away from the killer could be used as an alternative to AFC. I know that you can use this offensively, but the main case is that you can't really facecamp such a cage without risking it despawning, potentially right in front of another survivor.
I wonder if hooks may be a better anti-tunnel mechanic only because they require more time from a killer, which gives survivors time to counter tunneling by pushing gens. But in my 2v8 games I haven’t really seen killers struggle to predict cage spawns. Now, whether that’s the aura reading of survivors going in to saves leading them there or them just understanding that cages spawn the furthest available distance away from where a killer has downed/crushed a survivor, I cannot say. I have seen Huntress specifically cheese cages by standing on hills and sniping.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773057#Comment_3773057
He has a pretty high kill rate, but the most common annoyance is that Billies just spam revving to get into overdrive all the time, and overdrive is REALLY annoying to counterplay. Especially when his base ability already does something very similar.
My guess is like others, that they will put a longer cooldown on Overdrive so it cant be spammed, but also give Billy more control on WHEN you activate it, a bit more like Trickster's main event.
Either that, or basekit should instadown, but overdrive should inflict deepwound when they are healthy, to give reasons for either state (if a survivor is already injured, you go for speed to down them faster, but if they are healthy, you're slightly slower)Ah. I know he seems pretty oppressive in games where I see him. I assume the devS want to tone him down some to give survivors some kind of counter play beyond trying to maybe, hopefully, hide behind a wall and hope he can’t curve.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773414#Comment_3773414
Naw they're still strong.
Needs to be gutted imho.
Yikes.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773269#Comment_3773269
I don't really think Aura reading needs a nerf in general. As it stands I don't think there are any super problematic perks. The only problematic forms of Aura reading are stuff like Blight's Compound 21.
8 meters is not a large range whatsoever, it just applies in a large number of places in the case of Darkness Revealed. An aura perk that revealed Survivors within one singular 8m radius would basically never get any value.
For what it's worth, I don't want to see Distortion gutted, but as it stands you can throw it on and have complete immunity to aura reading against any killer with a Terror Radius. It is rare that Distortion tokens will ever get exhausted, regardless of how many aura reading perks the killer brings, and I don't think that's ok.
All they need to do is make Distortion only recharge in a chase. That way, it remains a potent counter to aura reading as a whole while not being a functionally unconditional counter to all sources of aura reading in the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773349#Comment_3773349
Lightborn doesn't even fully counter Blast Mine. You still get the stun so it's functionally the same amount of time wasted, you just have the killer see your aura.
While the rest of those things are correct, Distortion currently counters:
A Nurse's Calling, Alien Instinct, Awakened Awareness, Barbecue & Chili, Bitter Murmur, Blood Warden (sort of), Darkness Revealed, Eruption (also sort of), Friends 'til the End, Gearhead, Hex: Retribution, I'm All Ears, Lethal Pursuer, Nowhere to Hide, Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage, Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick, Shattered Hope (sort of), Thwack, Territorial Imperative, Weave Attunement.
That's not to mention the ~55(!) addons there are (I didn't count Scratched Mirror).
Distortion counters LEAGUES more than Franklin's and Lightborn combined.
Like yeah, there's the argument to be made that Distortion needs to exist as a counter the huge selection of aura reading that exists. I agree with that sentiment, and I'd like to see Object buffed too. But to have ONE single perk slot counter 20 perks and 55 addons for practically the entire game is far too much.
They just need to tone down the recharge. The perk will still be an extremely effective counter to aura reading, it just won't completely obliterate it at all times.
To pushback, if the killer sees your aura with Blastmine they can obviously pursue you once the stun duration has ended much easier than if they were blinded during the stun.
As for the perks/add-ons Distortion counters (without considering that Lightborn also counters survivor add-ons), is your point that killers have too much aura-reading? One perk shouldn’t counter it; there should be many perks that can work as foibles to aura-reading. I think technically you do have three: Sole Survivor, Shadowstep, and Distortion but the first two have awkward activation that can tank games requirements whereas many killer aura-reading perks and add-ons just require normal gameplay.
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I’d go with the Xenomorph.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773422#Comment_3773422
But the cage mechanic is still infinitely better then the normal hooks. The killer has to actively look for them and not just wait and see and there is always the chance that they missread the terrain and the cage showed up in a different part of the map. I think that this could be something that BHVR could implement in the base game. Maybe for the first hook stage? First down, just stomp the survivor, not losing much time during that crucial early game, but also giving the survivors an easy chance to reset and getting away without getting tunneled.
I too believed the cages were better but a couple of Pyramidhead mains pointed out critical flaws in their design. @ChaosWam had really salient points about why cages aren’t really a good anti-tunneling/camping mechanic.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773420#Comment_3773420
Slugging four survivors during normal gameplay is kinda hard and not the thing you would expect. Did you actually read my comment with an open mind, or did you just came down on it, because it was written by a killer main?
My take was that a Finisher Mori update should remove the opportunity for griefing and BMing from the killers side by just advancing a clearly unwinnable game, without making it this weird sudden death mechanic that it was in the PTB from ages ago, where the Mori would start the very frame the last survivor hit the floor.
But well, I will humor you: if the killer slugs all four survivors, that means that the survivors severely missplayed, as such an occurence is highly impropable. So why do you want to punish the killer for that? At this stage a 4% escape is much more likely then you think. And if the killer babysits each hook until the hanging survivor either advanced naturally to stage 2 or they used up their three unhooking attemps, then this further proofs my point that removing the opportunity to griefing would be a win for the game.
While we are at that point, just give killers the perk "Just Leave" - a survivor who lingers for 40/30/20s at the exit gates area without healing a teammate will get exposed and the exit gates will block for them, until they move further away then 40m from that exit gate. While exposed, their aura will be shown to the killer, thus reducing the ability for survivors to grief the killer and waste unneccessary time.
You actually just lost me at the end of your first paragraph. You being a killer main doesn’t really matter here. The game shouldn’t end because four survivors are slugged, which is what happened during the finisher mori tests on PTB and why the idea at least in that iteration was scrapped. Killers would slug all four people at 5 gens, mori the last then the other three automatically died.
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@NekoGamerX said:
I do feel like some killers look for the cages mostly billy and wraith and sometimes huntress I can't tell you how many times I been caged and as I wait I see the same killer who downed me call it bad luck but I don't think so.
Same here. Wraiths are notorious for this. It’s definitely deliberate, not coincidence, that they end up at cages just as a survivor is being freed
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@Akumakaji said:
When we had this utterly failure of the Mori/unlimitedUnbreakable PTB, I was actually surprised how elaborate the whole thing was, with all this unlimited unbreakable, literal tunnel vision and tinkered perks.
When I heared Finisher Mori back then, I thought "oh yeah, when all survivors are slugged and no one has an unbreakable left, the killer gets an autowin, so he can't slug them for 4min and everyone moves on", something as simple as that. I never understood why we needed this complex sudden-death mechanic, just let the game end when the survivors chance of, well surviving, are less then 1% without anyone extending the game to griefe.
Back in the days before we had regeneration hooks there often were this situations where you, as the killer, might not have wanted THAT particular survivor to escape, maybe they BMed you or whatever, but they crawled into a deadzone/comp corner, and you could either risk that they escaped and mock you severely in chat, or bleed them out while you occasionally slashed your weapon in the direction of a hook.
In my eyes, the Finisher Mori should have just ended the game in such a situation with a nice finisher and everyone could move on. Does any survivor have an unused unbreakable or is on hook stage 1? Well, then the clock keeps ticking. Is everyone involved on hook stage 2 and got no perk to help? Just end the game. Thats what a Finisher Mori update should do. Maybe even give the slugged survivors without hookstages an option to resign and let them all move on to the Mori. But the whole thing should not offer any tangible benefit to either side, it should just be there to limit griefing and abuse opportunities.
A game shouldn’t end automatically because four survivors are slugged. Killers should be punished in some way for this as it circumvents normal gameplay.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773271#Comment_3773271
Lightborn 2, franklins technically none since the question didn't specify items and flashbangs don't have durability so its a soft counter, sloppy butcher doesn't counter healing perks at all because counter like how distortion does implies that you would be physically unable to heal not reduce healing speed
lightborn counters: residual manifest, blastmine, flashbang, flashlights, firecrackers, champion of light, and any other perk that produces flashlight. Franklin’s counters all survivor items.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770718#Comment_3770718
I honestly wish they went with that at the game's inception before everything else has been tacked on.
yeah, there’s a lot that should have been implemented at the start. It’s just too late now to make broad changes. If there’s ever a DBD 2 they could totally make better decisions with the knowledge they have now.
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@Hannacia said:
1 perk shouldn't have the power to counter so many perks and addons. I personally hope that the token gaining gets changed. Right now distortion hurts the teammates. Most of the times people use this perk to hide alongside with other "stealth" perks like urban evasion, calm spirit and now iron will since its back to 100%. These people will not take chase or even save from hooks quite often. Other teammates gets " tunneled " out since the killer can't find these hiders. and im saying tunneled with very loosely. As a killer if i can't find the corner hopping hiders ill go to where i know the survivors are and i will hook the same survivor again if i have to.
So make it that the tokens can only be gained by eather being in chase for certain amount of time or do a gen x % amount or help teammates by unhooking and healing. Anything that will force the full on hiders to actually participate in gameplay.
Also i'd go as far as remove the hiding the scratchmarks part of the perk.
”1 perk shouldn’t have the power to counter so many perks and add ons.” See lightborn, see Franklin’s, see sloppy butcher, see… etc.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773067#Comment_3773067
Doesn't change that people still complained about it, which is what this change was supposed to fix. And sometimes a survivor didn't know they were in a dead zone and the killer was forced to slug them because of it. That's not fun and not on the survivor at all because they didn't know.
This change was never supposed to be the fix to slugging, or even help with the bulk of slugging either, it was a fix for this ONE unfun scenario. It has next to no real impact on the majority of games and was just a QoL fix to solve an issue.
I really don't see what is wrong with this change at all. The main point of this was to help killers when they physically couldn't hook someone, and it solved that well. Complaining that this didn't solve slugging is pointless when this isn't what the change was supposed to do in the first place.
I don’t believe this change had anything to do with survivors complaining about being slugged in hook dead zones. If the devs really meant to address slugging, they wouldn’t do it for the least common iteration of it.
It didn’t bother me personally when survivors ran into dead zones and were slugged. I guess other people felt differently about it playing killer.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772831#Comment_3772831
Yes but saying survivors aren't complaining about being slugged due to dead zones is also disingenuous.
It isn’t though, because complaints from survivors who are slugged in dead zones they have deliberately run into so rare they’re not at all relevant to discussions on slugging. When survivors complain about slugging, they aren’t usually/typically/commonly complaining about how they ran into a known dead zone, were slugged because no hook was available, and bled out.
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doesn’t he have the highest kill rate now?
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On the survivor side I can’t really see how they’d make Pharmacy worse. Maybe the change will be reverting it. Bloodrush has always stunk. Dunno what they’d do to help it that would be approved by killer mains. It’s probably best to just leave it be so it doesn’t become another Background Player
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772860#Comment_3772860
It's really just the 400% BP incentive
All the survivors are going to the game mode that's going to shower them in BP
Fair but I’ve seen survivor players say they also enjoy 2v8. I like it as both roles.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772860#Comment_3772860
Longer queue times and even more throwing, tbh.
I mean is that really so different? People always throw in 1v4. We should be immune to that by now. Queue times are longer yes but my longest has been maybe 8 minutes. Not unbearable
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772843#Comment_3772843
Correct.
2v8 is, in fact, making it worse.
I think 2v8 is better for killers and if we’re being honest that’s the role BHVR wants to feel more attractive. Not really sure how the regular queue is negatively impacted by 2v8.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771960#Comment_3771960
I have absolutely had survivors run into a corner of the map and then whine when I slugged them to death.
I agree that slugging for the 4k is the biggest issue and I would love for that to be addressed in some way, but saying people didn't complain about being slugged due to a dead zone is also wrong. People complained about it frequently in my experience even when it was their own doing.
This change wasn't made to fix slugging anyway, it's just a QoL fix to solve this one scenario.
Sure, it happens. But that isn’t the primary umbrage survivors took with slugging and we all know it. It’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
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I’ve finally gotten to play 2v8 as killer and it’s super fun. I like it as both roles. I prefer 1v4 as killer because to me at least it’s easier to win. But I love having a partner in 2v8.
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Happening for me as well
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@NekoGamerX said:
why not remove all killers just have Blight, Nurse, Huntress, Hillbully, Spirit, Wraith and Trapper(because he the mascot of the game) be done with it.
Kill rate is at 63%.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772774#Comment_3772774
So should Lightborn get nerfed? It's one perk that counters multiple perks and items.
Plague will also need a rework. She trashes healing builds and medkits without needing perks or add-ons.
The game has a ton of hard counters. Should we nerf all of them?
The unspoken rule, I think, is that people here believe nerfs should only happen when they affect killer gameplay. You’re unlikely to receive a response from the person you’ve quoted, but if you do, I guarantee they will not say any of the things you’ve mentioned should be nerfed.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772753#Comment_3772753
what do you mean people are too reliant if you make a build with the purpose of getting aura reading NO PERK should have the power to completely destroy a build you should have value no matter what I hope they gut distortion like they did STBFL eye for an eye
I mean it happens to survivors. Why are killers exempt?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772559#Comment_3772559
I'd rather Distortion be nerfed with the same amount of energy as Ultimate Weapon. I've seen ZERO killers use Ultimate Weapon since the last nerf.
Distortion should be reverted to the 2.4.0 or 5.5.0 version, where the tokens can't be recharged at all.
Or make it so survivors can't see how many tokens the perk has, so they can't quickly determine what aura reading perks the killer has. This is even worse in a SWF, where one person uses voice comms to announce the killer's aura perks to everyone else.
And what about the umpteen killer perks and add-ons that provide aura reading? Do those receive any changes or nah?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771801#Comment_3771801
We hear this alot. Survivor gets x buff, killer mains come here saying they're now going to tunnel/slug/whatever even more now in punishment. It never happens.
It never happens because camping/tunneling/slugging have always been en vogue. Those tactics never really stopped happening.
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@sinkra said:
As a survivor main when 2v8 ends I'm quitting the game entirely until they bring it back again.
Damn survivors… BHVR gave yall a taste of what an equalized match feels like and yall dunno how to act. Go back to your 38% escape rate and be happy. Lol
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771932#Comment_3771932
Your experience is not indicative of the rest of the player base. Slugging is one of the most complained about survivor issues, only really behind tunneling and camping. And plenty of killers would rather hook survivors than slug them, but have been forced by either the survivors or RNG into situations where slugging is the only realistic option if they want to win.
You said in your very first post ask the community how they feel about the change. I implore you to see how the community, especially survivors, feel about slugging. There's an example right above me.
Believe me… survivors aren’t complaining about being slugged due to hook deadzones. If that’s your understanding of why survivors complain about slugging, it’s really tone deaf.
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@arcaneGospel said:
They buffed like, three survivor perks to be worried about. ChemTrap, Flashbang, and Wiretap. The others are gimmick perks. They buffed three killers' basekits in ways they'll really appreciate—as an avid Nemesis player, I'm looking forward to having the hindered be an actual part of my power—which FAR outpaces a few perks bing better. ChemTrap debatably might be worse, though I don't exactly think so.
I take more issue with what perks they buffed, not how many, mostly because the RE1 blinding perks are absolutely obnoxious as is ChemTrap. Blast Mine is the exception of those three because it isn't good, but it's still obnoxious and poorly designed. Other perks give you something unrelated to generators after doing a generator, Blast Mine gives you insurance on a generator… For doing a generator. It's not good enough for me to lose sleep but it's annoying enough for me to not like it.
I wouldn’t even say those three perks are something to worry about. They’re all niche perks and pretty easily dealt with. I can’t even remember the last time I saw Wiretap or Chem Trap.
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I’d like more yuppie and jock styles. I think Jeff also had a goth-esque look, but I understand why more people would feel Sable’s style represents that subculture better.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771783#Comment_3771783
Not true either. It was like 4-5 6-4 which is close and its either survivor got more or killer got more
This is 10 survivor buff vs small 3 buffs to killers
Except it is true. We can also consider enhancements to specific killers as buffs. Count those too. :)
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771765#Comment_3771765
A buff is a buff. And survivors got more buffs then killers
killers received way more buffs than survivors over the last 4 patches.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771134#Comment_3771134
It's how it goes for me in 1vs4 on the killer side.
If I play chill, most of my games become chill after a while.
If I play hard, they become hard in a few matches.
On the survivor side it's mostly about getting out of MMR hell and then you can't really decide to play chill or not as it's kind of a group decision.
I don’t think 2v8 can support MMR. It’s way to chaotic
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So basically there aren’t enough survivors to mitigate long wait times in either queue. I wonder what this means for the true value of the survivor role in this game. What we mostly see are killer QoL changes made (which are good) while survivors… well, they typically receive very little. Perhaps this will change going forward.
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@Reinami said:
Should have been done with the gen changes, but 10 is probably too much, it should be proportional to the gen changes.
I.E. gens were 80 seconds now 90, thats a 12.5% increase, so 12.5% more of 60 is 67.5 seconds.
Gen times increased by 10 seconds, hook times increased by 10 seconds. It’s proportional in a linear way, which is fine.
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@KillerKittens17 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771666#Comment_3771666
check the new dev update
nice. I know I’m of the minority but I always felt nightfall should be much darker (lights out), should inflict oblivious, blindness, and give dredge undetectable with no glow.
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@Peanits said:
In some cases, sacrificing a Survivor in a certain part of the map could create a hook deadzone where it was not possible to get to another hook in time. This is especially true when Survivors would intentionally run to those areas knowing the hook was permanently destroyed and that the Killer couldn't hook them if they go down there.
The end result is the Killer needing to leave the Survivor on the ground for several minutes waiting for them to slowly bleed out. This was not fun gameplay for anyone, so we've made hooks respawn after a while.
what made it unfun for survivors and what’s your plan to address that mechanic in other areas of the game? Barring slugging in hook deadzones I mean.
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dredge was changed?
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@Lost_Boy said:
Solo queue survivor is significantly more fun in 2v8. Wether that's enough to warrant the massive queues for Killers in both modes, I don't think so.
I think solo queue is more fun in 2v8 as well. I guess it’s more fun for killer too.
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@Nazzzak said:
The first couple days were alright but then it did get a bit silly. I'm back to normal mode and it feels so weird seeing killers who aren't Huntress, Wraith, Trapper, Nurse and Billy lol
Same. It’s also kinda awkward because they respect pallets a lot now. Lol
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771025#Comment_3771025
Killer, I said in the post lol. Pretty much all of my Survivor matches have been in 2v8 for the BP bonus.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771024#Comment_3771024
I love 2v8 but the fact that they didn't allow for incentives to be on multiple modes at once in preparation for this mode is insane. Massive oversight.
Dang. I haven’t tried killer in regular queue. Guess it makes sense though. I did have a few survivor matches where the 15 minute queue time didn’t stop killers from camping and tunneling into a quick match.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770937#Comment_3770937
Throughout the course of the trial, it absolutely is.
When it's down to the last few survivors and you're doing it purely to prevent the hatch spawning, no. That's borderline exploit. The hatch spawns for a reason.
I guess if they were like griefing or not participating in normal gameplay you could report. I don’t think that accomplishes much, however. In any case I think if survivors made a big enough stink about slugging for a perfect victory (4/8K) BHVR would eventually limit it.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770975#Comment_3770975
It works sufficiently for this.
Gen-rushers and tunnelers will end up together while chill players will stay on the fun, chaotic, matches.
(And I won't be grouped with someone with less than 20 times my hours … I hope)
this doesn’t happen in 1v4. Why would it be different in 2v8?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
It's every match to be honest. You get caged and then the killer or their duo meets you on the other side of the map just as you get free.
survivors are adapting however and intercepting to body block during a cage tunnel
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seems balanced. Most of my games have been a tug of war
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771001#Comment_3771001
Yeah it's been taking me up to 15 minutes just to load into a 1v4 killer match. It sucks.
As killer or survivor?
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I like the bloodpoint incentive. Great way to farm.