Aven_Fallen
Aven_Fallen
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Now the person Killer Mains have made fun of for years and who was (according to said Killer Mains) responsible for many bad changes for Killers is the one people should listen to?
Man, you guys really try to twist it as you need it.
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@pandorayr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994215#Comment_3994215
The problem isn't the time it takes to repair, but the difficulty. It's very easy to repair, even a monkey can do it.
Not really. Even if you would make it more difficult, this would only affect people who are not that good at the game. And if players complain about Gen Speeds, they dont complain about those players.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994841#Comment_3994841
thats reassuring to know. face any Ghouls on these changed levels? I'm wondering if Haddonfield is still anxiety inducing to face that killer but his kidnap tech is gone...dare I get excited for the survivor role?
Nah, I only faced 2 Krasue, 4 Myers, 1 Oni and one Springtrap.
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For anyone not knowing it until now - they did not only increase the Pallet Density for the maps but also changed some Tiles. E.g. Crotus Prenn now features new Tiles, which look overall weaker than the Jungle Gyms and Longwalls which were the most common Tiles before. But they added more Pallets. So it is not like they only buffed all of the Maps, the Maps which were already good for Survivor also got changes in their Tile Structure.
I only played against Haddonfield from the Maps (aside from Crotus Prenn) which are mentioned and it felt better with more Pallets.
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You have buffed Ruin, Grim Embrace is as good as ever and you got Basekit PGTW. How slow do Gens need to be for you and your 90 second chases?
Furthermore tunneling was never really a strategy when it was objectively the best way to play.
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@ForumPikmin said:
Speak for yourself, I like my characters to feel like actual human beings that react to what's happening instead of flesh rocks
Which you can enjoy. But they really should add a toggle so that people who dont like voicelines dont have to deal with them.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994050#Comment_3994050
If other regression needed to get nerfed to make the incentive worth it… then was it ever good to begin with?
It is way better to have a good incentive and nerf Perks instead of having a bad incentive and stronger Perks. Makes you less reliant on Perks, which is overall a good thing.
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@Brimp said:
Because some people like to have more than 4 chases in a match. With how a good chunk of survivors play they just play in the most boring and uninteractive way if you're not playing a killer that actually punishes pre run shift W.
Except that the way you describe how Killers want to play is simply tunneling someone out and then just play with the other Survivors to go for multiple chases, because they just cannot lose anymore. If you tunnel someone out you can have a 12 Hook-game risk-free basically.
Sure, good to stroke your ego. But not really healthy.
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They are upset because tunneling someone out and making the game a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 is the easiest way to play Killer. It is not even a strategic decision (since I have seen some people claim that they are taking strategies away), because tunneling someone out is always the best choice, since you basically secure your win at this point.
The changes now discourage this and encourage going for different Survivors. Overall, it will be fine, but people like to panic and being loud instead of trying to adapt.
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I would see it more as a Nerf. Because you get less value for Killers with small Terror Radius, where you would rather use M&A. And while Killers with huge Terror Radius have more value from M&A (Wesker, Billy and Blight have 10m reduction instead of 8m reduction), you would most likely not use the Perk on those in the first place.
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994206#Comment_3994206
Like I said. No looping or juking, if you got close enough the survivor could spin his controls all he wanted, you got a hit. Most annoying survivor perks haven't even existed. I played basement trapper with IG + AGI along with stuff like BH or Whispers and WON (4K).
Honestly, are you talking about like the first few weeks of DBD? Looping was found out to be the best way of playing as Survivor rather quickly back then. And with all those Pallets and broken structures, it was way harder for Killer to get a Down.
And I dont know, if you currently win most of your games, but still complain that there are things in the game where you wonder why the Devs implemented those, this sounds more like you want to win even more. And well, that Killer queues are long is mainly because of 2v8, but also because Survivor has been miserable for quite some time now, which the Devs now try to address.
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@ad19970 said:
It's honestly hilarious how many people are losing their mind already over this update without having even tried the changes. And if killers end up being too weak, BHVR can still buff killers in healthy ways, like increasing the numbers of the rewards that killers get when hooking a survivor that wasn't the last one hooked.
But most importantly, these changes will create a much more healthy foundation for DBD, where tunneling and slugging aren't as overpowered anymore and playing in a fun way is more effective now. Further balancing can then happen down the line.
Plus the Buffs will actually be more impactful, if Killers need Buffs. I dont tunnel, but I know that Killers are also balanced with tunneling in mind, so if they receive a Buff, the Devs are more cautious, since you have to account for the player potentially tunneling other players.
But if this is reduced a lot, the Buffs can be bigger, which will help players who dont tunnel. Which is overall a good thing.
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@gerolau said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994251#Comment_3994251
if im going to turn the other 3 members of the p400 swf into gen rushers, unfortunately they dont
Which you face in every game. As usual, only Elite players on special Servers here on the Forums, who dont suffer from the randomness of Matchmaking and only go against the best Teams.
And well… If you face those strong Teams, muiltiple P100s (not that Prestige matters) who are extremely good… Do they even make mistakes? Your point was that Survivors who make mistakes should be punished, and they do get punished, because they die. But if they are that good, it is unlkely that they make mistakes, or am I wrong?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994129#Comment_3994129
Or just take the 3v1 as 25% bonus to zero progress is still zero.
Yes, this is still a thing. A 3v1 makes it still very likely for the Killer to win, even if there is no Regression anymore. Way too hard to come back as Survivor, if there are too many Gens left.
But for some reason people act as if the Killer would auto-lose once they tunnel out one Survivor.
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@gerolau said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994055#Comment_3994055
survivors should be punished for playing badly and losing chases too
They do. They die.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994120#Comment_3994120
Is the "reward" regression for playing nice based off of total progress or current progress?
Current Progress.
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To be fair, most complaints about Gen Speeds are not really reasonable.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994050#Comment_3994050
I don't know why people on this forum thinks that most of the matches people get sacrificed at 5/4 gens when its usually around the last 2 to 1 gen they go - unless they are really bad, its a S tier killer or the survivors are just trolling.
You do know that in harder matches they are disputed around the last 2 or even the last 1 gen, right? Even if you are the best comp Nurse with 30k hours in DBD you will still be prone to lose one or two gens on the first chase. Now if you kill someone with 5 hooks - you can do that reasonably without tunneling - you will have a much harder endgame. Or you just artificially let people live, so there still be 3 people on gens on the hardest time of the match.
Thank god its a PTB and people will this how this will be.
Is there any issue with winning a Game with "only" 1 or 2 Gens remaining? To me this sounds like a good game, but the way you describe it it sounds like it is a bad thing.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994156#Comment_3994156
Point is survivors perks didn't get wiped like killers as they get a bunch of free ######### and ways to punish the killer and killers get a pittance. Oh I'm sure that getting a bit of extra regression on kick will help trapper when the first 2 gens pop right away.
Again the "Trapper" and "first 2 Gens" nonsense. Bringing up Trapper does not strengthen your point, this is like saying that I dont survive as often as I want to when I bring No MIther. Trapper is the weakest Killer in the game and needs Buffs, dont act as if that one Killer out of 40 is the big argument which wins any debate.
And the first 2 Gens are whatever. You cannot say that each Gen has the same value, you can even argue that 4 Gens are not as important as the 5th Gen. But it is expected to lose Gens early and usually the first Gens are done fast, because this is just how the game plays. But every Gen should take longer, so Killer players dont really have to worry about losing Gens early. It is not the goal to end with 5 Gens remaining.
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To be fair, especially Coldwind and Haddonfield spawned huge Deadzones and the Pallets which they get will most likely be very unsafe, since they dont really feature structures anymore which allow for strong Pallets. Backwater Swamp also had RNG which allowed the Map to spawn with basically nothing in the middle area.
Not sure about the rest, I dont think they were that bad when it came to Pallets.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994145#Comment_3994145
You say as survivors get like 4 more perks basekit
I find it funny that you come with something completely unrelated after I debunked your point. If you have no argument left, just dont say anything. This is fine, you dont have to have the last word.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994050#Comment_3994050
And they nerfed all other regression.
They buffed Basekit Regression. Obviously they nerf the Regression Perks. Which is overall a good thing, being less reliant on Perks.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994120#Comment_3994120
Why couldn't they have anticipated scenarios in which survivors would abuse the mechanics, even without having users try them out on the PTB?
Also, I was shocked that the aura visibility bonus of the hook spread didn't take into account the M1 killer at all. Even if you can see a survivor 40m away, they'll either distance themselves or be hidden before you can reach them. Didn't they think of something like that?
How do you want to abuse the mechanic? Do you want to go next so that your 3 teammates have a Repair Speed Bonus and lose anyway because a 3v1 with 25% Repair Speed Bonus is still way worse than a 4v1?
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@Skeleton23 said:
So Im not allowed to go after little Timmy that follows me around for hours and runs into me every five seconds.
This is one person not on a Gen. This is good for you. I hope you knew that already.
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Does Ghost Notes stack with Vigil? And if it does, can it not do that? I feel it should not stack.
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Your objetive is not to tunnel Survivors, your objektive is to kill Survivors. And you get a Bonus and no penalty if you dont tunnel. But obviously you ignore that.
Maybe it is time to git gud instead of relying on playing the game in the easiest way by tunneling?
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@supersonic853 said:
Tbf if the feedback is that bad people will still say "but we should try it on live the ptb isnt everything" then once it gets fully put in then its a bunch of work to remove or fix it. Thats my main worry on this scenario but we will see.
You dont have to be bad to want actual testing of the changes, lol. Testing it on the PTB is not really valuable, most people stay on the PTB for a few hours and thats it.
Ideally it should take a month or so to fully test those changes and their impacts. And you cannot achieve this on the PTB.
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This post has the same fundamental value as your initial post btw. You get an educated opinion by testing it on the PTB and ideally testing it on the Live Servers (since PTB is not that valuable for testing). You dont get an educated opinion by saying "I watched the Discord Live Stream".
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@Astel said:
Is it true that DMS is dead? I heard someone saying it is nerfed to 35s but cannot confirm.
It is not dead, but the duration got nerfed. Not sure if 35 seconds or 30 seconds, but less than before.
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It wont. You tested 0 of it, you post a completely uneducated opinion without any evidence to back it up.
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Mirror Myers was basically gone after they nerfed Map Offerings. Nobody tries to play Mirror Myers with 20% chance of getting to a Map where the build would be viable just to end up on some Autohaven Map where you see him from miles away.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994050#Comment_3994050
You mean the 20% of current progress?
10%. And yes, incentive to not tunnel. And a punishment if you tunnel. As it should be. And maybe some people realize that you dont have to tunnel as often as you claim you have to tunnel.
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Easy solution is to not tunnel. You even get a Bonus to Regression when kicking after hooking unique Survivors.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993966#Comment_3993966
You have identified the win condition for survivors. Unfortunately, they do need one of those, or they'd have nothing to play for.
We are very close to Killer Mains asking for Exit Gates to be removed.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993925#Comment_3993925
I honestly don't think there's any way to make survivor more appealing in 2v8. The novelty of being able to play with another killer will always be the popular choice in this mode
Yeah, sadly I dont really know what to do to actually make Survivor more appealing. Because the things which are frustrating in 2v8 are not really fixable. But I know that throwing BP-incentives at Survivors does not work - did not work for the first iteration of 2v8 and does not work for the current one.
I think the best way would be to make 2v8 full PvE so that two Killers can play against 8 Bots. This would basically allow instant Matchmaking for Killers.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993478#Comment_3993478
I feel like when you give a response you just kind of throw together whatever response comes to mind without really thinking of the outcome.
Only because you dont like my responses and think you know better than me does not make my responses wrong in any way.
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This is why I dont really understand why they keep bringing back 2v8 without any substantial changes which would make Survivor more appealing and would therefore result in less problematic queuetimes for Killers. You wait 30 minutes for a game with a Killer AFK. Or I once waited 30 minutes for a Killer who was just sandbagging me. Or you wait 30 minutes just to end up with a Killer who is very new to the game and therefore makes it impossible for you to win.
If they would actually find some way to reduce the queuetimes by making more Survivors play 2v8 (and no, throwing BPs at them is not the way to go), we would have shorter queuetimes and issues like written above are not as impactful anymore. It is less likely that Killers are AFK and even if you might have a bad game because the other Killer is AFK, sandbagging or simply new, it does impact your experience way less if you only wait 5 minutes for a game instead of 30 minutes.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993394#Comment_3993394
2 gens done by the 1st chase should warrant atleast the prompt to abandon.
Not really, lol. 2 Gens done is nothing, the Killer can easily come back from this. This would only lead to some people abandoning basically every game because they dont really understand how the game actually works and that the first Gens are always the fastest and matter the least.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993530#Comment_3993530
Like the opposite where every killer buff helps top tier killers only?
This is not true at all. In general, every general Killer Buff helps every Killer. It is more the impact said Killer Buff has. Which is why individual Killer Buffs are always better than general Killer Buffs, since with general Killer Buffs you have to keep in mind the Top Tier Killers and therefore a general Killer Buff will always be less impactful to weak Killers than specific Killer Buffs to the same Killers.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993422#Comment_3993422
Average has no meaning when we're talking about bad start right here.
Besides, it's not necessary ONE chase for 90 seconds. For example you spend 20s chasing the first guy you've found, realize he's a very strong looper, so you have to switch target. That 20s is wasted for no benefits at all. And now you have to spend more time travel and find another. If second one is also a strong one, well you waste even more time.
And since first chase is always the hardest as Survivors have FULL map resources to protect them, this is just not an uncommon thing to happen.
Does Killer deserve to straight-up lose in this scenario?
My favorite Forum User, I only used your own example. If you now think that you own example (you tried to base an argument on it) is inaccurate, this is not really my fault.
This post of yours does not change your "argument" in the slightest btw. And yes, Killers deserve to lose when they play bad. Same as Survivors, they deserve to lose when they play bad. But for some reason one is not really accepted on this Forum.
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@n2njauwu said:
i mean its funny how tunneling and slugging is beeing adressed but not SWF, gl dealing with SWF witout slugging them lol,
Ah, SWF, the ultimate scapegoat. And yes, how should SWF be adressed? I am curious how you want to adress something where over 99% of the SWFs are teams you can easily deal with.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993649#Comment_3993649
They will need a lot, big buff or rework if we talk about weaker killers so they can go for hooks without need of tunnel.
And? Does not change the fact that you cannot really gauge the kind of buffs they need as long as tunneling exists and inflates the Killrates.
Or would you say those Killers should get less Buffs and tunneling should stay in the game as it is?
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@Nazzzak said:
As someone who plays "weaker" killers, it's kind of annoying to see people try to use them as an excuse to disregard these proposed changes. Get rid of tunnelling, see where these killers land, then buff them from there. That's all I want to see. The devs will never give anything more than mild buffs so as long as tunnelling is the path of least resistance.
This is because they are grasping at straws and dont really have arguments. It is not like weaker Killers dont need Buffs in the first place, but with tunneling in place you cannot really gauge how much of the Buff they need. Like sure, Trapper will get weaker when he cannot tunnel that one Survivor out, but it is always better to eliminate things like this before buffing to make actual Buffs which actually help.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993530#Comment_3993530
While not to encourage that arguement being used to death of course. I wish this patch would have came with more for those killers. Because while people can say "you have a buffed kick base bbq and haste just leave the hook!" And we dont know the numbers. If its like 5% for 10 seconds and the kick is like 10% and the BBQ. It still makes no logical sense on a majority of maps to leave the area as a m1 or close to m1 killer (even pyramid head who was recently buffed and is considered a pretty good killer) because of just the pains of no mobility in a characters kit. And I doubt they plan to give every killer with no mobility a mobility button because that'd take ages and get boring quickly. So gotta hope these numbers are substantial or its gonna be a lot of pain for a lot of people who wanna play these less fortunate options. Because not everyone wants to be ghoul,blight,billy, or nurse.
I think it is difficult to implement Buffs for Killers which might be affected the most by those changes if we dont know how much impact those changes have, let alone how much is kept of those changes. I dont have much hope that much is kept given BHVRs track record when it comes to things like this.
And in general I feel that individual Killer Buffs always make more sense then general Buffs and if they see a drop in Killrate for some Killers, they can easier tackle those specifically when they know how much impact the changes have on them. Sure, they could gigabuff a few Killers right now, but we would not even know if the Buffs might be too much, not enough or whatever.
This is something for the time after players got to play with those changes for a few weeks and see how impactful they actually are.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993362#Comment_3993362
or you're playing Trapper and need time setting up.
You can invalidate every change in DBD by just saying "or you play Trapper". I dont really see this as an argument.
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Not really. It is still beneficial to turn the game into a 3v1, you just dont get to use your Regression afterwards. But you still are in a situation where technically the Gen progress should be heavily slowed down, since when you have one person on the hook, one in chase and one going for the Unhook, you have 0 people on Gens.
Like, it is not like alternative Kills like Sadakos Condemned Kills or Pigs Traps dont provide any advantage to you anymore. And if those Killers have a problem with the new changes, the Devs will most likely buff them.
IMO it would also be fine to make it that only if people die on Hooks that the penalty for Killers work, but if they get killed by an alternative method, there is no penalty. Even tho this would require to remove Moris.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992591#Comment_3992591
To give some semblance of balance to early 3v1s. They're currently broken. People are completely overlooking the fact that a 3v1 with multiple remaining gens is almost impossible to lose as killer. There's currently zero downside to tunneling early. It's not a strategic decision. It's the easiest possible way to win a game.
Exactly. Tunneling is no strategic decision, there will never be a case where not tunneling is the better option, even with all the defenses against tunneling which are currently in the game. You can hit into Endurance, get stunned by DS and still all of that is better than going after a different Survivor.
The only reason why we dont see tunneling in every game is because not everyone wants to play optimally and prefers to go for multiple Hooks. But those people also know that they are not playing in a way which would give them the best chances to win.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993422#Comment_3993422
While I do agree that some people lean hard on tunneling, I think the word "deserve" is a bit of a strong/rich word when we have such a glaring disparity in killer strength...
Who deserves to win more?
- The Nurse who downed their first Survivor in 20s?
- The Dark Lord who downed their first Survivor in 30s?
- The Huntress who downed their first Survivor in 40s?
- The Cenobite who downed their first Survivor in 50s?
- The Legion who downed their first Survivor in 60s?
- The Trapper who downed their first Survivor in 70s?
I would argue I'm more impressed by the Legion/Trapper in this case. The fact is a weaker tier killer cannot really tunnel effectively without camping nearby, and if you're camping, you're losing the game assuming survivors don't all come off gens and waste time staring at their teammate on hook.
Returning to hook/camping and hardcore tunneling is a privilege of fast killers who are also highly lethal to reliable crush through Survivor defences. An m1 killer trying to tunnel is flipping a coin on the Survivors skill, perks, and the general awareness of Survivors towards cranking gens.
So I do agree with you that strong killers can artificially boost their MMR by tunneling... but weaker killers... nowhere near as much.
Oh, weaker Killers can also totally boost their MMR by tunneling. You have a weak link in almost every team, once you tunnel those out, Gens are slowed down A LOT. Everyone can do Gens, you can be the worst Survivor in chases and go down in 10 seconds every time, but if you are left alone and do Gens, you contribute to the team. If you are tunneled out however, this is one person missing on Gens. Let alone that many Survivors are not efficient and dont spend their time outside of chases solely on Gens.
And I feel that weaker Killers will in the long-term benefit from the fact that tunneling is harder. Because I feel that weaker Killers can make the game way more forgiving when they can tunnel someone out and turn it into a 3v1. I mean, if we take a Killer like Wraith for example, who is not weak, but also not one of the best Killers, you can get vastly different results when you tunnel and when you dont tunnel. And yet, his stats are totally fine, mainly because tunneling exists. But maybe Wraith is a bit worse than it seems, because if you take away those matches where the player tunnels, he might struggle more than it seems.And this would lead to changes to Killers (and nobody can deny that BHVR in the end tries to make weaker Killers feel better, even if it takes some time).
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993399#Comment_3993399
I agree about seeing how the trials playing out over several weeks to see how these proposed changes work out.
I do wish the PBT was more impactful and wider used. There's no MMR and like you said super limited in who can participate. Neither Windows or Epic can use it, despite bothe being on PC, plus none of the consoles can either, and they make up the vast majority of the playerbase.
It is even worse when it comes to people on the PTB. Not only it is Steam only, but even on Steam I think the majority of players does not participate in the PTB. Some dont care, others might not even know that there is a PTB, since not everyone follows the Social Media or is on the Forums. And some might just dont want to bother with downloading the PTB, e.g. I was not on the TWD-PTB because I did not want to download the whole game for the PTB just do download the whole game again for the switch to Live Servers.
And those who are on the PTB sometimes are only on it for an hour or two, which is not enough time to test everything to have reasonable foundation for an opininion IMO. Which is why I am also not a big fan of changes from PTB to Live, since a lot of feedback is based on people not even getting to test the changes or only doing so for one or two hours.
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993416#Comment_3993416
You are right. I wonder why it is limited to Steam only.
Granted, I have the game through Steam, and have done PTB testing in the past, but I too think that more people should get the opportunity to test out the changesIMO there should be a separate PTB-Client which people can install without having to reinstall the Live game. This would also make it available for console, since it is a separate client. It would also allow to have PTBs frequently to test stuff like they did with the Finisher Mori and the ability to pick yourself up a few years ago, instead of throwing this onto the PTB they can use the Dedicated Test Client for this. Would allow to test things without any chapter ahead, including more frequent tests.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993362#Comment_3993362
So your point? Killer players are not allowed to make mistake and have bad start? Or are you just wanting to shame for no reason?
No, I am just saying that a chase of 90 seconds is just too long. As I have written in my other post, we have stats that at high MMR Chases are 70 seconds per Survivor. If one chase takes 90 seconds, you are already way longer than three chases on one Survivor would take you. And then… Do you really think you deserve to win when you take that long? When you take that long to down someone, you probably tunneled a lot and got carried into an MMR-Range you dont belong.
So no, I dont want to shame for no reason, but I also dont sugarcoat that you are the best player in DBD when you "only" take 1 1/2 minute to down someone.