Archol123
Archol123
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- Archol123
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746014#Comment_3746014
I didn't make that assumption but ok, and it being less safe doesn't mean anything, it took way less skill
But it was fun to use and offered counterplay for the survivor, what else do you want?
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/418191/blight-hug-tech
Hug tech could've been an intentional feature and it still would've been bad. In reality blight was more linear with it in the game since instead of having to get good at bump logic for hits you could just look down and let the hug tech do all the work for you
Bump logic is way more reliable than hug tech could ever have been… People were already able to use bump logic before and get the hit more safe, but using hug tech has a rather high chance for failure… To assume people who used hug tech don't know how to use bump logic is a weird take.
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Well seems busted ^^ being able to make 24 m during that time and still get the safe, no clue what the killer is supposed to do there? except for check half the map in case some one is hiding there.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745817#Comment_3745817
i'd prefer 200% haste and 3 second duration.
Would be quite busted though, how long is the pickup animation? So every second of haste after that does not matter anyway…
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@jezebelthenun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745569#Comment_3745569
As a killer, you're allowed to drop a chase and go apply pressure to the people doing gens. This is literally your main skill. There seems to be a mindset that every chase should end in a hook or a slug, period. Don't chase that person into the dead zone just because you see them. Throw on Discordance or another info perk and get the most value out of the map.
So let me get this right, I am supposed to drop chase because the guy is running into a hook deadzone? What do you think the other guys will do then? The same perhaps? That is the macro part of the game, to decide whether or not to continue a chase or not, however to say that there should be chases you just cannot win is ridiculous, maybe you throw the game to win the chase, but you should be able to do so, and reach a hook, unless it gets saboed or bodyblocked, there should just not be places that when survivors go there you cannot hook them but need to slug.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745823#Comment_3745823
I think it's pretty unfounded to say that the goal is to make people like her, considering the rework was very much an attempt at fixing the problems that were reaching a fever pitch.
People liking her is a nice bonus, and a few people do. Even the vocal set of players yelling about her has shrunk from where it was before. Considering she has no huge glaring issues and just a handful of small ones, I see no reason that number wouldn't keep shrinking over time.
So if the goal of the game developers is not to create a fun experience for their players and like the content and therefore buy it I don't really know what you think is then? Characters having glaring issues can be the reason people don't like them and fixing those issues should lead to a more balance and fun game. Usually it is more important if a game is fun compared to if it is balanced, you can have the most balanced game out there, but if it is not fun then basically nobody will play it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745815#Comment_3745815
My metric for success when it comes to this particular rework is twofold;
- Does she still have the old problems?
- Does she have any substantial new ones that would replace the old ones?
The answer to both of those is 'no'. She doesn't have any of the problems she used to have, even the less impactful ones, and the few problems she does have are mild enough for her to be entirely in line with other killers.
They gave her nuance, skill expression, counterplay, and a clearer mechanical identity than before. Whether people personally like her or not, that's a success from where she was before.
Well the storm ripping your house apart or just your roof of is also a difference, but both suck. And since the goal of such reworks are to make people like it I would say she is and has always been a failure, because for a very small group everyone despises her.
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@Backmon said:
This character is already one of the strongest killers in the game. With these buffs he will be impossible to play against. I am surprised by the logic of the developers, they overbuff already strong huntress and singularity, but the weaker and more difficult to master pig and knight were simply destroyed
He is one of the hardest killers in the game, so the qol and access ability stuff would be appreciated if done well, not so sure about the done well part. But he is also quite reliant on family goto because otherwise his overclock mode just feels quite weak. He is a solid killer but nowhere near as broken as you make him out to be.
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@MiNISO said:
Please return the perk. Now it has become almost unplayable. Previously, it was possible to save a survivor from a great distance, but now it’s barely possible from four meters. Developers, I hope you see this.
Well if you cannot get saves now that is entirely on you, the perk is still good and it has quite the reach, before it was just completely busted.
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@jesterkind said:
I certainly hope not, it'd be a shame if they abandoned an almost entirely successful rework.
A couple tweaks would be welcome, though.
What do you base success on in that case? ^^ Because basically everyone hates her xD
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745666#Comment_3745666
It's pretty common terminology in fighting games.
I mean tech or trick is pretty common for such things, depending on which game.
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@Tyler3 said:
Personally, I don't think Wraith should get a speed boost while he's cloaked, I never understood that, like, you're literally invisible, do you also need speed on top of that? The lunge after you uncloak should stay though.
Wraith used to be a lot slower and was considered really weak when he had 126% ms, people were basically required to run speed on him... If you want to make him one of the worst killers in the game then this is one way. And also he is not fully invisible if he does not use line of sight blockers you can see him fairly easily.
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@Souplet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745671#Comment_3745671
The only "counter" to it was :
- Noticing he was using the exploit
- Predicting where the exploit will lead him
- Go to an unusal spot in the loop that you know he can't reach
Fun counter i guess
It was similar to Billy's curves... You can go wide or close... And many people considered that funny... So saying there was no counter would be a bit off.
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@Souplet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745667#Comment_3745667
Not when those "techs" give little to no counterplay (as blight one)
Fov, cj, window and so on are easily predictable
Blight hug was ridiculously broken, making him arguably better than nurse
And for the record, im like 95% a killer player
Go look for lilith omens video and hug tech and learn how to counterplay it, if you assume it has no counterplay means just don't know about that yet.
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@DustyPumpking said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745537#Comment_3745537
Damn how fast you killing survivors to still give yourself a dead zone at that point
You slug for a 4K or what
What does that even mean? If I have bad map rng there is an area with exactly 1 hook, if that person dies there then I cannot hook someone who goes down there for 3 minutes, in that case the bleed out timer is probably at least half done until I can hook them again, at which point they are either picked up, still there or crawled god knows where 3 minutes is just way too long...
Only for adepts or tome quests otherwise I don't care about hatch.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745577#Comment_3745577
Listen if you've already ran around a loop once you'd be shocked how often QnQ'ing into a locker works for a second or two until they hear you.
Against the average killer maybe, against good or decent ones probably not so much, especially because entering a locker leaves a seperat blood pool, if the person uses filters it is even more bright, I would not want to rely on the other person being bad to get use out of something like that, maybe rather pair it with lightweight and the Nancy perk to use unique patching without leaving scratch marks if you want to make the killer lose you?
I'm not saying it cannot work that way but I would think to be unreliable and DS to be the safer version.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745529#Comment_3745529
Walk with me here, you can pair it with Head On to be silent in the locker while injured before you stun thus making it more likely you can get the stun off. Funny perks are so back.
And the killer is blind and does not see the pools of blood? Like sure it can work, but I would rather pair it with DS.
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@Zindare said:
Hello guys, we all love our good old friend Michael, but he has been a little old in the roster, so his kit has been feeling slacking a little bit. So i'm gonna suggest an idea as to how he could be improved upon, so here are the changes:
Stalk
- Remove limit on how much a survivor can be stalked
- Allow Michael to gain the same amount of Evil Within while stalking from any distance
- If Michael stands still while stalking, he becomes Undetectable
Commentary: So with these changes, Michael will be way more off a menace throughout the match. The survivors would need to be constantly looking out, because if not, he could farm you all the way to max Evil Within.
Tier 1
- Change base movement speed to 4.4 m/s
- Give him a regular lunge attack
Commentary: This was made just to allow him to get hits and chase in tier 1.
Tier 2
- Increases speed for vaulting, breaking, recovering from pallet stuns by 10% and lunge distance by 10%
- New Ability: Mastered Evil.
Mastered Evil
- This new ability allows Michael to manually go back into a previous tier he once had
- While in the lower tier, any stalk you get will stay as progress to your regular next tier. So for instance, if i am in Tier 2, and use this to go into Tier 1, any stalk i get will be progress towards Tier 3.
- Whenever you want, you can return to your previous Tier, Unless its Tier 3 (requires full meter).
Commentary: With this power, Michael could have Undetectable whenever he wants and for as long as he wants( by returning to Tier 1). He could also pop his Tier 3, down someone and return to Tier 2 to save the rest of the meter.
Tier 3
- Increases speed for vaulting, breaking, recovering from pallet stuns by 20% and lunge distance by 20%
- Allow Michael to stalk.
Commentary: The reason why Michael will be able to stalk is because that will be necessary to unlock his new Tier 4.
Tier 4
- To get this Tier, Michal will need to stalk someone to "Full" while in Tier 3, similarly to Ghostface
- When a survivor gets fully stalked, Michael enters Tier 4 and benefits from the following:
- Increases speed for vaulting, breaking, recovering from pallet stuns by 30% and lunge distance by 30%
- Allows Michael to Kill (like tombstone) the fully stalked target
- Uses same meter as Tier 3, but drains it Twice as fast. When over, goes back to Tier 2.
Commentary: This Tier is very different, because you can only kill a singular target, so against anyone else, you pretty much are still in regular Tier 3. This also allows the devs to integrate the tombstone addons into something related to this Tier, to make it more 'natural'.
I don't really think this qualifies as a rework... Well it buffs him for sure. T1 seems Allright, although I would like for mirror Myers to be taken into account, him being 110% and having a normal lunge might be too much on that, but it could be adjusted in the addon.
I don't mind the increase in break speed and pallet stuns and so on.
I think going back to the last tier is a huge issue in 3…basically you have everyone 99% if you use it immediately after a down, Myers would be one of the best campers in the game, you can never get an unhook without it being a 2 for 1,that would be horrid, so this needs to be taken into account somehow.
As for t4 being able to mori someone without hooking them is completely busted, especially in combination with the ability to do so from very far away... And considering you only need to see a small part of the survivor, I think the mori should just be removed.
Instead we could do something about his map mobility, the whole he appears out of nowhere thing and maybe a bit of information, so let's say when you pop your t3 everyone that is fully stalked gets revealed for 3-5 seconds and maybe he can teleport in the shadows for a distance of x m so you can avoid walking through the open in case there is no line of sight blocker, or just a teleport with certain spots around the map...
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@jezebelthenun said:
"Part of survivor skill is managing that finite resource."
I always assumed it was part of the killer skill to do the same with hooks. Survivors use broken hooks as a tactic, often to combat toxicity, but not always. It's a strange choice in my opinion, and I say that as someone who does like to play both sides. If I, as a killer, can be baited into hooking only on one side of the map, that's my 3 gen equivalent.
But the survivors can decide what gens to repair, the killer only has a limited choice of where to hook someone... I don't see how this is comparable...
Also yes part of killers skill is managing finite resources, but that does not mean hooks, it means his time…the killers time in the match is limited by how effectively the survivors are doing their objective, the survivors Ressource are pallets they need to be resourceful about using them, so the killer can be delayed enough to escape him. That's basically the balance of the match. Managing hooks and deciding where to hook is part of the macro game, but that decision gets limited if hooks break for longer or forever... Sure you need to think about that beforehand, but usually you dont have much of a choice to begin with, starting from the edge of the map there is 1 maybe 2 hooks in range to hook the survivor on, the next one who dies there might just not be hookable... And that sucks for both sides, the killer is forced to slug and the survivor is either annoyed on the ground or he is doing it on purpose to not able to be hooked, just sucks for both sides.
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@Soultakr13 said:
I am a survivor main, and play killer once in awhile, I see where now the hooks that are broke will now respawn after 60 seconds due to dead spots and killers having issues getting survivors to hooks, so my question is what about the survivors that get caught in those same type areas but pallets have been destroyed? Why not make it fair and have them respawn as well after 60 seconds? And can we do something about the slugging at end game where killers have two left do they down one and leave until they find the other? Why not after 30 seconds if not picked up, we automatically get up to stop this. Please remember it takes 4 survivors to play to one killer, and people get tired of these situations. And if killers cry, changes are made. I’m not crying I just want to see the same consideration for survivors. I love this game, I’m a Xbox player and I’ve been playing since day one. Thanks for your time. I’ll await your feedback.
Well as killer when the survivor is downed you only have a limited choice of where to hook that survivor because of bad hook rng, however as survivor when in chase you generally decide where you want to lead the chase unless you get zoned. Pallets are designed in a way that they slow down the killer but can be destroyed to make the area weaker, overall increasing the strenght of the killer in chase the more resources got drained.
If hooks did not respawn the killer can just slug that person for 4 min because he has no way of hooking that person, if there is a dead zone on the map the survivor can just not go there and try to not get zoned, it is not comparable.
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@Dlcollett22 said:
Textures need updates bad so it looks more graphically pleasing. every other game has updated their engines to look better on next gen except for you guys. it’s ridiculous textures on gens, walls, floors, hooks are just so blurry and low poly. your the only ones who still make us run last gen graphics, and just say its next gen.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D95Y7LL1DUOQ/img-4427.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YTL3GOIL7DK7/img-4429.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PJLJIOQMBYBP/img-4427.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/22OISOB9RVRT/img-4486.jpeg
For starters it would be nice to have advanced settings for different things like view distance, texture quality, shadow quality and so on.. There are titles from the early 2000s with better settings.
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@JerryHound02 said:
Are there plans to bring back the hug tech for blight?
The new collision was such an unnecessary chance and causes blight to use his power less often especially on indoor maps or in buildings.
It also removes his skill expression, the hug tech was a big part of blights personality and blight payers loved the hug tech not simply for getting downs, but to show off their skill the killer. Additionally it added the skill of learning the collisions on different maps.
The removal of the hug tech has made blight feel very one dimensional and far more simple which indirectly makes him less fun.
please bring back the old collision and give blight his hug tech back.In addition to that you bump so easily that it is quite annoying to play him now, you have a slight angle towards a wall and you bump... Bump logic is way more reliant than hug tech ever was, so all that has been done is remove a layer of risk reward type of plays.
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@DustyPumpking said:
It should be 180 seconds to be in line with Breakdown imo.
Might as well bleed the survivor out for the remaining minute as well if it is that long..
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745109#Comment_3745109
Likely not a "rational argument" but I can see how the threat of hook breakdowns is the killer side of, the risk of survivors 3-genning themselves. It forces you to manage how and where. There's always multiple hooks in a location, anyway. Even the loss of scourge hooks are easily avoided by remembering who is on death hook.
And as for it being "in line" with Breakdown - that would defeat the existential purpose of the whole perk…
Survivors can decide which Gen they want to try to complete, the killer cannot decide where to hook a survivor that went down at a certain place... It is not fully comparable.
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If they mean a killer that functions differently than all others, offers unique counterplay and has areas that work well against the killer despite being complete garbage against all others than yes, we do indeed need more killers like Nurse in that sense.
Just the basic idea of having areas be strong that are otherwise weak is great, edge map is strong against Nurse, and almost useless against everyone else, I wish there were more killers that had such things.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744738#Comment_3744738
Which is fine, after all its their choice
Then so is bleeding out people for no apparent reason.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
At this point I think the reduction of hooks is needed, or at least increasing the distance between them.
No? There are already areas where you can barely reach a hook because the rng is so bad, there is no reason to increase the issue on top of Sabo being stronger currently. This change is good because you are not forced to bleed out survivors as much anymore, because at least you did not create a dead zone by hooking some in a place with no other hooks, why would you want to I crease the likely hood of getting bled out again?
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
From the next update hooks on which a survivor is sacrificed will be able to respawn after 60 seconds.
There are no more excuses at this point, the killer often used the loophole of not being able to hook because there were no more hooks available nearby even though it may not have been true just to mask his toxicity.
I am obviously only talking about the situation where there are only survivors on the ground and the game is virtually over, whereas if a killer wants to slug during the game there is no problem of course.It is still just 4 minutes and I don't see a reason to make it bannable, I would rather have a give up function when a situation as this occurs instead of have it be bannable...
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It still has the requirement of not being exhausted... So I think the perk is fine, everything that is an alternative to exhaustion perks is a good idea... People might use it together with deadhard, but I think everything else is off the table.
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Bedham - way too many connected tiles, strong buildings, 5 of them despite no remarkable difference besides where the buildings are placed.
The game: 25+ safe pallets and very little room to mindgame or do something besides kick the pallet
Haddonfield: should have some windows in the middle and less dead zones...
Swamp maps: too big and at the same time too empty... There are times when they spawn less than 10 pallets...
Greenville Square: 25+ pallets but almost all of the are unsafe, which does not really matter because the next pallet is just so close, it lacks the mixture of strong and weak tiles...
Singularity map: Was too colorfully too many line of sight blockers and hiding places as well as random stuff to get stuck on..
Eyrie of crows: still a bit too strong for survivors, but my main issue with the map is those trashy twigs you get stuck on for no reason...
There are some more maps that need attention, but spontaneously those are the ones that are most problematic.
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I think it is a good change, the exhaustion requirement is fine, but I also thought the perk was fine without it. Maybe we will see it more often now.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744577#Comment_3744577
I understand that most games offer options to mute chat, but I actually appreciate that DBD doesn't include this feature. In my opinion, it creates a more unique and challenging game experience. When it comes to being unique, I guess I just disagree with you because I think DBD has done very well over the past eight years. I agree tutorials are pretty garbage, and information needs to be made more attainable without needing to look up outside sources, but I think the dedicated playerbase and having newer players still coming in happesn because the game is unique and fun. While there's always room for improvement, that's part of the deal with any live-service game.
I understand why they don't allow graphic settings to be adjusted, as the dark ambiance is a crucial aspect of the game, and gameplay could suffer if things were made too bright. I agree customizable hotkeys would be nice, but I don't think the game is suffering without them, as it's not a game that requires many buttons to begin with.
My comment about players not making mistakes isn't about adding voice chat making them perfect. It's about considering the lack of communication when balancing the game. You can't expect four strangers who aren't in communication to play perfectly, and players shouldn't have to be flawless to have a decent chance at winning. Survival rates are right where BHVR wants them though, at a 40%, so I think the balancing already takes wiggle room into account, which I think is good.
I mean not adding those graphics setting does not prevent people from still doing so via filters or increasing the brightness of the monitor or other build in options, it just is not available for everyone. Same with the hotkeys, which is why people accidentally vault lockers when they want to vault windows, and even worse on console where picking up a survivor, dropping a pallet and god knows what is all the same hotkey, which is just stupid to keep it that way.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744573#Comment_3744573
I believe it's impractical in solo queue. Strangers do not usually work well together. Just try overwatch and you'll see.
It doesn't have to be "key" and it's not key because they developers have not made it to be key.
And the problem with adding is that it means the game will then be balanced around having voice chat. Therefore if you don't use it you will be at a disadvantage. So it would affect all players so i would rather they not add it at all.As for the part of the devs don't decide that… When you decide to make a game of a certain type, there are typically rules that you cannot decide on, unless you take action to prevent them… RTS will eventually have build orders people do, multiplayer coop games typically get an advantage through communication, shooter games tend to revolve around accuracy and so on and so forth, and while the developer can decide on what he puts the focus of the game, that does not necessarily mean that other things that are not put in the spotlight are not key to the game…
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744573#Comment_3744573
I believe it's impractical in solo queue. Strangers do not usually work well together. Just try overwatch and you'll see.
It doesn't have to be "key" and it's not key because they developers have not made it to be key.
And the problem with adding is that it means the game will then be balanced around having voice chat. Therefore if you don't use it you will be at a disadvantage. So it would affect all players so i would rather they not add it at all.Well if that is your position then we basically need seperat queues because otherwise the game cannot be balanced, I don't know I have seen quite a lot of cooperation in multi-player games, despite playing with Randoms, be it Dota or overwatch in the old days, the question is always how committed people are to win... And when somebody does not care they will end up in a bracket where people also don't necessarily try to win which is Allright.
The developers don't decide on what the key concept of a general type of game is... They decide on the type of game and the rest comes with it...
That is not an issue though, because it is a question of how much communication is expected to be done, nobody wants to base it around a clock system and comp callous, but you can at least assume players will share some form of information which is Allright.
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744513#Comment_3744513
I wouldn't say there's nothing bad about her prese, just mismatched, almost like they decided to smoosh two different concepts together and prayed that it would work. because in theory Skull Merchant, should work. A sexy rich CEO big game hunter, who is bored of hunting exotic creatures turns to hunting the most dangerous of all creatures, her fellow humans, because she views everyone beneath her. That concept is pretty scary, she's so rich she can get away with murdering people for sport. Paying off the police to hide or delay the finding of evidence, making deaths look like accidents or they crossed the "wrong" people. To make her image even scarier, she uses the bones of her victims incorporated into her decore at her penthouse, her clothes, her jewellery even (bone rings and necklaces).
I mean it did not say the idea is not something that could have been done well, but we don't rate the idea, we rate what and what we have is a pile of garbage... Nothing about the way she is made is good.
And honestly even the hunting fellow humans for sports is pretty boring at this point, not really something new or interesting, it could work if the killer is well made... But like she is not. And even that type of generic Backstory would be better than the cringe stuff we have with her Backstory.
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@Paternalpark said:
Soloq isn't the problem. It's matchmaking.
Like I said before, they go hand in hand... Matchmaking makes it so your teammates are completely random so you never know how capable your team is and you cannot even help them through communication, whereas in a swf you have the potential to help each other out.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744614#Comment_3744614
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AIF7EUENG7F5/img-5498.jpeg
BHVR said that the game will never be balanced around voice communication.
OK so what? It is not like we are debating what their intentions are currently? Just like everybody else they can be wrong and I think their reasoning is wrong in that case... Because no, voice chat should not be the sole utensil to balance the game, but in combination with text chat and a chat wheel it could... Sure not everyone speaks the language, so how about we put a "preferred language" setting so you get matched with survivors you are able to communicate with... This is basically the same as people saying voice chat means people will scream in my ear all day long, no you can just mute them, just because a feature does not work unconditionally does not make it a bad feature... The good solution is not easy and needs adjustments.
Also the Europe example is the silliest thing I have seen in a while, because guess what percentage of people in Europe overall speaks English... 370/450 million... That means more than 75%... And based on how the school system used to be the remaining ones are probably mostly the older generation... Yes not everyone has the same mother tongue, but completely ignoring that the majority of people learn English in school or through self study is a hilariously bad take... I'm not saying that's the case in other regions as well, but Europe was the worst example to use... And even if it was not it could be adjusted to work as I explained above.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744610#Comment_3744610
Yes it's quite funny, they often don't even realize how little sense they things they say make xD
Indeed ^^
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@GhostsCore said:
I ask because I've had a ton of people give up early against him I don't know if this is because I put too much pressure on them or if they don't like vsing a Chucky.
I try to go out of my way not to tunnel (unless you body block or do a gen I ignore you). But people are still giving up more than when I play Skull Merchant.
Thoughts?
No clue, with scamper gone that annoying part does not exist anymore, but perhaps the cooldown is a bit too low? Where it feels like he has his power up all the time? Or did that get changed already as they announced? Other than that I don't know, perhaps the small model? It can get really annoying to keep track of him as he is quite the dwarf...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744585#Comment_3744585
The information gap has been addressed enough. Solo q survivors have been given extra information already, and it is enough.
Yes, there is still an information gap. But the goal never was to fully close the communication gap. The goal was to evaluate the communication gap, and give some free information, which BHVR already did.
I don't think it is enough and I don't think it is appropriate to leave the gap open in any way, as it will always result in a feeling of it beeing unfair, because the other players have something I cannot access.
If we agree that inequality of opportunity is always an issue when it comes to tools being available to the players then there is no "enough" while it is not fully closed... If you played a game with voice chat, but 25% of players, decided randomly game by game just did not have that feature, don't you think that would be seen as an issue? It won't necessarily cost you the game but it sure is annoying that some people have access to it and others don't.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/418067/remove-end-game-chat
But I find it funny to be completely "destroyed" by the poor ace thinking he's god after he tbagged me and died xD
Jokes aside (well kind of, I really find it funny xD), I really enjoy to talk to people at the end. Sure there are a lot of people just completely throwing tantrums, but there are also people you can talk to and have a nice chat.
That's why I think it should stay and you can just minimize it
Yeah you will oftentimes get nice chats, but I also appreciate the complete lunatic tantrums people throw, quite hilarious how mad someone can get over a game and how creative they are with their insults ^^
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744596#Comment_3744596
Sure, and we can definitely agree on that... all of this is completely subjective anyway, so while this is an interesting conversation, everything will just come down to opinion at the end of the day regardless xD
Back to the OP
Returning to the OP, I do feel like Trickster has a bit of an identity crisis. Trickster mains from what I've read want focus and reward to being accurate with their knives.
When I read their reworks the general trend prioritises accuracy over spamming knives. Their reworks are far more in depth and awesome, but if I make small tweaks to current Trickster instead of doing a huge rework, my changes to him would be:
- Add a mechanic where successive knife hit (maybe with a 1 knife miss buffer) grants a tier up like his old scaling faster throw speed for 15s. This would be a small but nice reward for accuracy.
- Increase Main Event required hits to 20.
- After 3 successive hits, every successive hit with a knife (again both with a 1 knife buffer) will grant 2 stacks towards Main Event instead of 1.
- Increase available ammunition to 60.
Thi should hopefully still keep relatively accessible, but give him some actual skill expression for accurate knife use.
The base issue with trickster is his similarity to Huntress, more accurate less spam will just gradually become huntress, the opposite direction will turn him into a machine gun where aim just does not matter because you are throwing too many projectiles to dodge anyway... The crisis of his concept is he will always be just a better or worse huntress and not have an identity of its own, sure his main event power up exists, something that huntress does not have but this does not suddenly give him an entire new identity.
And that leads to the issue with counterplay, because he throws so many knives so fast dodging one or two probably loses you more distance than you gain because he missed knives, his counterplay tends to revolve around bringing highwalls between you and the killer and not trying to dodge projectiles.
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@ad19970 said:
That does sound like bad matchmaking as well. Solo survivors can still perform well if everyone is good enough.
With that said, I do agree that solo survivor is in a bit of a rough state at the moment. More information buffs as well as nerfs to tunneling and camping would be more than welcome to help make the experience better for solo survivors.
Solo survivor and bad matchmaking go hand in hand, one benefit of playing in swf is knowing what your teammates are capable of and playing around it.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744587#Comment_3744587
It's a fair argument, although I suppose I would have to ask if the term skill floor has a purpose if its literally just referring to the basic controls of a killer?
Like even Hillbilly has a low skill floor if we're just counting the difficulty of throwing out his ability and bambi survivors being silly/running in straight line from him... and technically we could say his skill floor is low just because he can use the chainsaw to run around and otherwise just be an m1 killer...
Nothing wrong with defining skill floor like this, but it doesn't really give much to talk about as a metric of the difficulty of playing/learning a killer.
Personally I'd say skill floor is a more useful discussion point when referring to how much time you need to put in to understanding the basic functionality of a character at an average level of play.
For Hillbilly this is the basics of curving, developing accuracy and building tile knowledge of where you can and cants realistically turn.
For old Trickster this is the basics of developing accuracy, knowing at which points you can pull up knives to land consistent hits at a variety of tiles, and being aware of your available ammunition and main event progress.
Huntress skill floor is similar points to Trickster... but I'd argue her variations of this are far easier to learn than Trickster 😁
Like I said before and this is also why I used Billy as an example, it is really this basic level. You don't even have to walk into the saw, it is only mobility.
Ofc it does not give anything in that department, but that is also not what the term is used for? The skill floor says how hard or easy it is to pick up a killer, the skill ceiling tells you how hard it is to master the killer, and anything in between is up for debate anyway because you don't have a metric for the middle part. We could just say how hard the killer is to learn/play properly, because there are no set borders here like if you say you know Billy to 40%,like what does that mean? That's way too subjective, but setting floor and ceiling is very clear in the sense of what it means: the bare basics and mastery of the character.
I would say huntress has less of a margin of error, because trickster missing a knife is not a big deal, there are 40 more to come, but huntress not only loses distance but also a rather limited Ressource... Debatable which one has the lower skill floor, but I don't think that is the topic ^^
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@vol4r said:
I would have really great use, look:
How often do you find yourself as a killer, 3-4 people running into the gates after the unhook. Most of them are already injured and the gate is 99, that gives you another chance to get a kill or two if you are able to block the gate. Freddy has it on one of the addons, so it's in game already - comes in clutch.
If the people or not already injured 15 seconds will not make it so you can down a person and get them to the hook to activate bloodwarden, wipe weapon cooldown, pickup animation walking to hook and all... And the survs won't stay because they now know for sure you have bloodwarden... It will just lead to more people doing the more effective thing anyway, open the door before the unhook so you can just walk out and don't need to open the door before being able to... Maybe it will lead to one additional kill, best case... However it will take away the unsure knowledge of whether or not bloodwarden is in play, and I don't think that is a worth trade off...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744583#Comment_3744583
Well I suppose I make that distinction because I define a skill floor as a starting point of actually attempting to develop your skill on the character.
I wouldn't for example say Eddie Gordo in Tekken has a low skill floor because you can mindlessly bash buttons and accidently win. That to my mind isn't a skill floor 😅
So to my mind the skill floor is where you actually where you start from at a baseline of trying to get good at a character, and playing against a halfway competant opponent is a vital part of that process, as you aren't developing any skill if you beatvup on someone who doesn't have a clue what they're doing... if that makes sense?
Yeah sure makes sense, but why is it the floor then? ^^ For me the floor is where you start of when you try something... The skill floor for chess is being able to move chess pieces and know where you can place which piece. It is the bare minimum, for fighting games I would not even go that far into character specifics... Just knowing which button does what is basically already the floor, maybe knowing what special attacks are available and such, but not much more... So for example for Unknown it would be that you have a projectile and a teleport and that only an indirect hits can damage, but not necessarily that you can hit through walls or how to do advanced stuff, like putting a clone at a specific spot, by tapping the m2 to prevent a spawn of a clone at a position you don't want it to spawn.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744516#Comment_3744516
Accessibility of teamwork isn't the problem, because lone wolf survivors and ragequitters aren't playing selfishly because of the lack of communication.
Any solutions to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF, should have the PRIMARY GOAL of addressing lone wolf survivors or ragequitters. Things like harsher DC penalties, a special queue for frequent ragequitters, nerfs to lone wolf perks like sole survivor and wake up…. those things have the primary goal of addressing lone wolf survivors or ragequitters.
I would assume that majority of soloQ players don't fall under those two categories, so it is not really relevant for that point is it?
Adressing sich playstyles that are ineffective and not wanted has nothing to do with the issue at hand... There are several other ways to get rid of them, either by being reportable, by being taught that you should not do that stuff or by some other way of social control. This however has nothing to do with the gap in potential information between a group of players on coms and soloQ who don't have the option to communicate in any way.
Yeah great those things might help Adress those problematic playstyles, however this has nothing to do with the information gap between those two groups of players...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744578#Comment_3744578
My edit I think covered what you were looking for, sorry.
Accuracy did matter, because yes at low walls you didn't have to care, but at high walls and structures like shack you really did need to think about what you were doing, as you'd lose sight quickly, so every miss counts, and you'd also lose distance.
I don't believe skill floor reflects the most basic levels of play against the lowest of level players. Bambis do not represent the skill floor. To my mind, skill floor represents the basic requirements of the killer to be effective for an average level of play.
Huntress has a low skill floor. Her power is easy to understand, and a new player can be effective with her at an average level of play without a lot of time invested. If you guess a survivor position amd have halfway decent accuracy, you can pre throw and get a wound.
Trickster is not the same. He takes a lot more effort to understand how to play effectively at an average level of play. You can't just guess a survivor once and score a wound, you have to understand how many knives you can realistically get off at this juncture, be sure you hit them, and correctly predict the survivor movement to get another angle in time to maintain the pressure. This takes far more map and power mechanic knowledge that Huntress or Deathslinger or Pyrid Head and alike.
At least that's how I see it.
Well I guess that just comes down to how you define it, I would say the definition I go by is more accurate, considering there is a reason the phrases are called floor and ceiling... Like the highest and the lowest thing... So saying skill floor is somewhere in the middle is a bit off ^^
I'm not arguing that trickster was a bad killer and getting good results needed some commitment to learning him, but that was not the topic.
The skill floor is just the bare minimum you need to play the character... For an ego shooter it would be to point the cross hair at the enemy and press m1, based on some quick searches I would assume that to be the general definition.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744251#Comment_3744251
People use distortion, it already gives info on blood warden
If you have 1 or 2 very specific perks, but not in general... Not 100% of people run a perk that tells you... I am sure there are other things that could be buffed about it without basically nerfing it by giving a huge billboard that tells the survivors the perk is in play.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744571#Comment_3744571
Ok dude, you might say old Trickster was low skill floor... I disagree but fine... however you can't say old Trickster is a lower skill floor than modern Trickster... that's just not true.
Old Trickster was a 4.4 killer, and any Trickster main will tell you the secret of old Trickster was knowing when you could and could not pull up your knives. If you pulled up at the wrong time, the scaling throw speed on each throw wouldn't matter, cause the survivor breaks line of sight; and if you miss often, those windows are few and far between on certain maps.
Like yeah at the bog basic levels of play against Bambi's he was alright, but against decent survivors old Trickster became quite hard to play well if you werent accurate with knives, especially for console where most of casual player base is.
Main Event usually came too early, or too late to be any use for players not carefully tracking/planning for it, and if you couldn't hit knives well, then tough crap, you're a 4.4 killer, good luck walking people down. This is why a lot of Rookie Tricksters resorted to proxy camping hooks and chewing through health states on trades instead of risking prolonged chases.
Nowadays modern Trickster doesn't share these same problems. He is 4.6 and can play normal mind games if he needs to, main event comes up often and can be thrown at any half dead zone without worry, and this also means missing knives doesn't really matter.
His problem is he doesn't get better with accuracy, spamming is just as effective with the exception you might run out of knives at the wrong time. As such there is far less reward for high level play compared to old Trickster.
I didn't differ between old and new trickster, both have a low skill floor, just like most killers.
All those things you mentioned are advanced knowledge and not stuff you need to immediately know when going into the match, that is what skill floor means... Skill floor does not mean what you need to know to play against good players who already know how the killer works... It means if you play this killer for the first time, how hard is it to play the killer at the most basic level. Use knives only when at low height loops, otherwise just play m1 when there are constant line of sight blockers... That kind of basic is what skill floor means.
As for the accuracy... Did it matter if you hit or not? As far as I am aware your throwing speed just got faster over time, no matter if you hit something or not?