Archol123
Archol123
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- Archol123
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608955#Comment_3608955
You're entitled to your opinion but there's more to than just a simple "skill issue".
He even explained what he meant with that... And those things he mentioned clearly are a skill issue...
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608750#Comment_3608750
It went down to ~2m with the addons and no one ever used it those addons are a joke and even if they had a niche to work in that way (which they already currently do with monitor atm) people still won't use it
My point was back then slinger had a 24 m heartbeat, 18 m shooting range, and was on 16m with monitor, and the patchnotes where they announced he would get changed they explicitly said his terror radius is getting increased, because they did not like the idea that you could get a shot out of stealth just with monitor, that was my point, there was no talk about the addons, but sure they are not meta, but I also don't consider the play style unfun to go against so I'm perfectly fine with them not being meta.
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@not_Queef said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608886#Comment_3608886
Surely this would increasing lobby dodging, though.
People will see three Distortions (or any other perks they don't like) and leave.
Also, most people aren't going to remember what their teammates have anyway.
I think this feature does already exist on DBD Mobile, is lobby dodging a thing there more than here?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608859#Comment_3608859
Maybe i worded it poorly.
I agree'd with them even if they make Solo-q and SWF equal by information-wise, SWF will perform better. Because 4 people who knows each other will play better than 4 randoms. That was only thing i agree'd. Except that, they are just wrong.
Solo survivors can perform so well too if they have good coordination.
I mostly disagree'd with them because they simply meant , even if they give tools to solos this won't change things because randoms are just not gonna help each other as SWFs. That's just wrong. There is a lot games i had we would win with better coordination.
Information is strong tool like you said. And my solo teammates are mostly altruistic and trying to help to team. So they are just wrong with that randoms are not gonna help each other as SWFs. We are suffering from lack of information, not selfish players. Sure selfish players are here and there but they are not majority, i am rarely seeing this type players.
That's fair, I think by bridiging the information gap you are basically doing what you can to bring both groups as close together as possible, everything else comes down to personal playstyle and willingness to perhaps sacrifice a hook stage for the greater good and what not. I think there would still be a gap just because you can rely more on your buddies than on randoms.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608855#Comment_3608855
Nobody uses hexes anymore and you don't really need communication to avoid a 3 gen hell a lot of casual SWFs 3 gen anyway cuz they're not thinking about that that much.
I really don't understand this utopian thinking that everyone would just become perfect teammates if they had more information and could communicate more. Team games with randoms with voice chat are not new even in the asymm genre, you'd get good teammates maybe sometimes and the rest of the time will be teenagers yelling slurs at you lol.
The hex totem was just a theoretical example, there are many more things you could communicate better, it being the killer having a specific perk or gen positions in general. I'm not saying you necessarily need it, but it sure as hell makes it easier... If all 4 survivors are good players, they won't 3 gen themselves, but if they are not it might just happen... Which is why if there is one guy in there telling them "don't do gen x, we will be 3 genned" then maybe they listen, maybe they don't but at least it increases their chances. And this type of stuff makes people more efficient, just like the one guy going for the unhook, when somebody lets go of the gen you cannot say for sure in every case whether he is just pre running from the killer or going for the unhook, in that case communication would help majorly to sending two people to the unhook on accident. Same goes for telling your mates where the generator is you worked on if they want to finish it.
Nobody says they will become perfect, they would have the potential to become more efficient, there is a big difference between those two. If you are seriously assuming the majority of people just shouts insults at then I don't want to have your world view my man ^^ Jokes aside I don't think that would be an issue, you could just mute them or report them or whatever, it is still your choice whether or not you want to communicate with someone in particular.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
"We always monitor the difference between survivor groups (SWF and solo) and our current stance is that lack of information is not the crux of the problem, but rather that friends work together by nature and solo survivors don't (as much). -Mike"
Now, that's true. SWF teams will work together better and help each other more because they can coordinate better. That's why so much perks and builds are doing so good with SWF teams while they are mostly meh for solo survivors.
SWF teams even can plan their play style because they will simply tell each other whatever perks they are going to use. But solo survivors? You can't. Because your teammates don't know what perks you are going to use.
+ If they see you have We'll Make It, they will leave hook save to you.
+ If you see someone is using Power Struggle build, you can help them with baiting killer for a bit and then leave. Things like that so easy for SWFs but good luck to do in solo-q.
+ If you want to Head On killer to help your teammate when they are in chase, you just can't most times. In SWF, you will tell them you are in which locker but in solo-q, you just can't do that.
I can give more examples but that's good enough. Most perks and builds are viable for SWF but meh or dead for Solo-q.
And seriously HUD need 2 more icons:
- Show AFC progress to all survivors. So we will know killer is camping. That's something SWF can tell each other already.
- And sometimes you don't know who is going to save. Sure, you are seeing survivor is doing nothing and you are assuming they are going to save but you are clueless. It would be nice to know if we knew one survivor is going to save.
HUD was good change but looks like we are not getting anything else and this kinda upset. Those changes are not even big but would make solo play better.
I am not saying devs are ignoring solo survivors, i know they have limited time for so much work but if you don't give enough tools to survivors, ofcourse they can't help each other as much SWF teams does. It's not like solo survivors are selfish and only cares about themself. No. I am actually thinking most of them are pretty altruistic and team players but we have not enough tools to coordinate. That's the issue.
It is kind of weird to first agree with their statement just to later basically prove the opposite with the examples you mention and even give solutions that involve more information for teammates... That's kind of like the flat earthers trying to proof the earth is flat and then accidentally proving it is round ^^ No offense there my man, but you literally just gave an example that involves lack of information as the crucial part as to why solos don't work together so well...
Lacking informations leads to less teamwork, it is as simple as that, so whether bhvr wants to admit or not it is the lacking information that's causing the missing teamwork... We can however debate what the direct cause of less success is... Because there are certainly some things that don't really need teamwork to do better as survivors, but others do... But overall the cause of both is basically the capability to spread information with your teammates...
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@Xendritch said:
This comes across as horribly naive about human nature lol.
BHVR pretty much hit the nail on the head with their answer. There will be a limit to what they can do about soloQ because randoms will never care that much about other randoms. The amount of times I've gone to second stage on hook one, been knowingly sandbagged, been held hostage by hiding teammates, been left to die in endgame, etc is more than I can count.
Now don't get me wrong I don't think it's malicious but rather just apathetic. The average random just doesn't care about other average randoms because they just don't really have a reason to? And they're always gonna make their survival the priority and no amount of HUD changes are going to fix that.
I don't think they did... Imagine all the things people in soloq would be capable of if they had the information... Sure they won't just straight up become better at looping, however they would know if someone is going for the unhook, they could callout their positions and which gens they are working on to prevent 3 gens, they could call out lit totems, or totem positions in general, in case they are currently unable to do them themselves and so on and so forth, all this leads to much more efficiency overall, and this is the major benefit, the working together is basically just because they know all this and are able to be more efficient...
For example the totem example.. One survivor calling it out but unable to do it and another one able to do it... How would you recreate this situation without communication? The teamwork is a result of the information spread... Which is why I think their statement is just plain wrong.
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@Rogue11 said:
Every map doesn't need to be the size of a postage stamp. It's causing massive issues with gens spawning right next to each other. And as others have stated, this map already has some bad 3 gen issues. Shrinking every map to dead dog size makes them all feel repetitive and boring. Are you ever going to go back and fix some of the disastrous reworks like Rancid that are nearly unplayable for survivors?
Also agree with others that the lighting, lack of fog, and general morder-ness could be improved.
Why would a map feel repetitive just because of its smaller size? Big maps are a huge issue for killers without mobility and the map size does not necessarily provide for problems with 3 gens, since they basically appear on all maps regardless of size.
Maps don't need to be super small, but they should also not be as big as mothers dwelling...
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608738#Comment_3608738
They are similar in the sense that you can't do anything when you get affected by them.
A killer cannot avoid Blastmine since they can't determine which gen it was installed on.
A killer can totally decide to not kick a generator, I personally barely kick gens because I don't run Gen kick perks and dry kicking them is often a waste of time... However survivors cannot just stop working on a generator as soon as someone is in a chase or injured in chase...
As killer you can also just stop kicking gens when the perk is in play or determine which survivor is using it and just wait it's duration out even.
You can move while effected by incapacitated, you cannot while stunned... This is such a weird statement... Exhaustion perks and Lights rush are similar because you move faster than normally during it... I don't see how this is a useful comparison.
Once you know blast mine is in the game you would want to avoid it if possible, if you know eruption is in play you would want to do the same but are unable to because you just cannot. I don't think the perks are comparable.
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@UndeddJester said:
Resurrecting this thread rather than making a new thread. Had a conversation with @Archol123 the other day about survivor information, and as part of that conversation I got thinking about Survivor loadouts being visible in lobbies.
With regards to behaviours statement regarding how soloQ and SWFs can be brought in line, this was Mike's response
A: We always monitor the difference between survivor groups (SWF and solo) and our current stance is that lack of information is not the crux of the problem, but rather that friends work together by nature and solo survivors don't (as much). -Mike"
This got me thinking about this suggestion, and the main reason soloQ struggle to work together is they don't know what each other have.
Archol123 pointed out you can just ask in lobby, which is true if you're all on PC, but if you're cross platform, or on console, you can't... so given cross platform communication isn't really possible, this change strikes me as more important.
If I know what my team is taking, I can adapt accordingly to their play. I
- If I see a lack of information perks in the team, I can take Deliverance and Kindred, maybe even Open Handed to help my team out with info.
- If I see a player with Decisive Strike that I saved off hook run in behind me, I know to let them take a protection hit for me, instead of being confused and trying to take one for them. I can even be ready to run to blind with a flashlight to blind them while stunned so they don't get tunneled.
- If I see a team full of chase perks, I can take perks with strong healing like WMI or Botany Knowledge and maybe some gen based perks to focus on a different part of the game.
- If I see someone going for David adept, I know to try and get that person out at all costs. May take Sabotage and Breakout or something to prevent him being focused.
SoloQ can't work together well because we don't know what is in play to be able to work together.
To address some of the points in this thread about lobby shopping, 1 addition I feel would help is a low priority queue. If you dodge, you get placed in a low priority queue where other players regular go ahead of you to resolve matchmaking. Have a little message on the lobby search saying "low priority queue" to get the message across.
Not to mention the fact, that if you play with players who dodge, they're likely the type to pitch a fit and suicide on hook anyway.
So I feel the opposite of most here, I feel the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
Seems about right, I would like to add two things though. First it would be good qol if you could also see the perks ingame, so you don't need to remember them, maybe when pressing escape or even always in the HUD?
And the second point is I find their statement really weird... Because how would they know? Lack of information is the main issue as you already pointed out, because the lack of information makes it harder to work together... I find it ridiculous that they just state this in this way... Because it just sounds like an assumption based on nothing... Because how would they know whether or not solos work together less effectively than swf, how would they know it is not the lack of information that makes them less efficient? To me this just sounds like a random statement that is supposed to blame the players for less success in the sense of if soloq players just played together more than there would be no gap, instead of taking accountability for the gap in information and being honest here: Sorry guys we know the information that can be available in swf is a huge benefit however our game code does not allow voice chat without major rewriting which would be way too time consuming, so the gap just has to stay we re sorry... (At least that is my assumption)
They could just be honest with us, because this statement without any reasoning for why they believe this seems ridiculous...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608486#Comment_3608486
the way it works is that monitor&abuse reduces the tr by -8 so his 16 tr becomes 8 tr and than dead rabbit reduces his tr by 25% of his base which is 6 tr. There is no real reason to run m&s for t2 because just using dead rabbit goes from 16->12. if that version of M&A would be implement, he would have 0 tr and 0 tr turns into undetectable.
Technically yes, but if Legion has a low terror radius the detection killer instinct of his power also has lower range... So you basically cut your power short...
Legion M&A is somewhat interesting. you gain +8 detection for being in the chase because monitor&abuse increases his tr by 8 when your in the chase, but you do lose detection after like 5-10 seconds after chase ends however this does not matter because by the time chase ends, you are running to next survivor so your in radius to detect them. M&A for Legion is like mini-susie tape because larger detection at the start is only detection that matters when your doing quick decision making for whether it is worth it to chain hit or not chain the hit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608468#Comment_3608468
pre-running is pretty annoying for killer. the two stats that attempt to counter it is haste effect and other one is lower TR. I find it amusing that the dev took that perk idea from 3 months ago where i suggested perk where if your near a gen as killer, you gain 10% haste for 10 seconds. they made that a perk called battery included. that perk was a perk idea that I came up with as a perk to counter pre-running. Although their version only works on completed generators so it is not that good for pre-running because killer typically play around uncompleted gens. completed gens at least part of the perk idea.
what I will say is that lower tr is not that effective vs 4 man swf that call out your position so haste is superior anti-pre running tool however issue that i was having when constructing that battery included type perk is how do you separate haste in chase at loops vs haste to get into chase vs pre-runners. you almost cannot separate the two situations. that is one of reasons why blight is such good killer and it is something that people over-look in relationship to strong killers is that pre-running is not that effective as strategy. it is one of reasons why a lot of player favor high mobility killers because high mobility killer diminish the effectiveness pre-running.
I don't know I find 6 m heartbeat quite nice, but I agree that it is usually one or the other being in use...
Yeah right, but the reduction is quite massive, so as soon as you loose chase it would shrink by like 20 m giving survivors quite a lot of time to run somewhere you cannot find them easily...
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608061#Comment_3608061
Counterpoint this was in the game for 2 years and it was maybe used once in a meme video
But weren't you at the same time able to use monitor to basically have a longer range than heartbeat for the entire game? Which they literally named as a reason to increase his heartbeat?
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608486#Comment_3608486
Isn’t Myers undetectable in tier 1 already? We will see whether you get undetectable or not if they even try it.
Yeah he is, which is why I said he used to be... He once had a 6 m heartbeat in t1 I think.
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@LazyClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605263#Comment_3605263
If you have a better idea mention it, unless you are on the side of the cheaters which I believe you are defending them. The legitimate phone number is a harsh one sure, but I don't see any other way to eradicate the cheaters other than these devs having to hire tons and tons of help which would cost way too much money, bvhr should not have to do this and its players should grow up and stop abusing the game. Look, this is a live service game and it's clear that we need a far better system then the one that we have because the cheaters/modders situation is getting worse and worse with dbd. I have had enough of us vanilla players having to play 24 times better than someone who can just easily abuse the exe without consequence. It's killing the player base and losing bvhr a lot of money. And you can easily find phone numbers on the internet or even through the govt directories so I don't see how this would pertain to any issues of danger. And already, I would rather have my phone number leaked than my ip address manipulated since you can obtain a lot more info than you ever could on that than with a phone number. So already your "dangerous" narrative that you are trying to set is quite ridiculous.
I just want the cheats gone completely, I don't care what you do with your monitor, I only care if its modded content, I want it gone forever along with those players that use it as well. You guys who keep bringing your monitors up in this discussion are just straight up dramatic and are completely missing the point. This game is straight up miserable facing cheaters because anything in dbd that is altered to your advantage brings you up by a mile over the other player (thats not even an exaggeration a literal mile) no monitor setting is going to do that in dbd. Im not doing this for likes, Im not doing this because I want recognition, I want these devs to have more and more options on how to deal with this problem without having to blow a bunch of money. And hey if it's a bad idea im sure they will catch it regardless. Because they have an amazing product here and it would be a shame for more and more players to leave it because they peaked and now constantly face cheaters. It really never had to come to any of this idea if everyone played fair, but they are not and they need to be punished from playing dbd so the actual players that spend money on the game can enjoy the game instead of being discouraged from it.
Love how you call other people overdramatic while you are unable to accept that the devs allowed filters and won't ban anymore for it, same with crosshair, but you still cannot over it... Get over it dude, it is not cheating if they allow it. Also nice hyperbel, yeah sure filters make it thaaaaaat much easier xD
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@siro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607523#Comment_3607523
You have been relying in your responses in the fact that you mention "She cant tp inside the survivor" but she can go through it and place infront of it and get the hit correctly, or mentioning that thing like if she needs to manage a lot to get a hit.
Anyway that thing can be taken into account for the rework i mention, the point of this rework its to "Not reward nurse a lot for failing both blinks" beacuse the lunge its a huge reward for failing blinks, she has the best power, 0 map dependency and nurses are just relying on m1 lunges to get hits because they dont tp next or infront of the survivor. And, most of the times this turns in a "Bluethooth hit".
What do you mean 0 map dependency? Nurse is rather bad on indoor maps??
To blink through them and be in front of them perfectly to not need a lunge attack would require precision no one has... Usually you blink behind people and lunge because that way if they double you still hit them, if they double back with your Nurse you just miss because you don't have a lunge... This is a horrible change.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608489#Comment_3608489
"you don't have to sit around, while being able to move, however not being able to do anything."
What? You are stunned and blinded during Blastmine. You literally cannot do anything.
Blastmine is most comparable to Eruption. They were both designed as traps that could be installed on generators to incapacitate the other side.
"The other point against it is, that a swf can call out when they are about to go down to negate the effect, but solos cannot, it is not 100% reliable, as we have seen in some comp matches, but still a huge advantage, and something we should not have."
Same thing with Blastmine. You can't determine which gen it was installed on.
Blast mine is just another stun, incapacitating is not too similar, besides that it is not only the duration.
What do you mean with the last part? That does not make sense dude a swf could mostly avoid getting hit by eruption, what do you mean same thing with blast mine?
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608057#Comment_3608057
The effect is similar but just much shorter. I also didn't use pallets as an example but k.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608299#Comment_3608299
Same thing as when you get Blastmined. Can't do anything. Should remove Blastmine too then. BHVR designed Blastmine as the survivor version of Eruption, especially since they both came in the same Chapter.
They are completely different though, blastmine is not that much different from a pallet stun. And sure you cannot do much about it, but you don't have to sit around, while being able to move, however not being able to do anything... Which is the part where those two things are different.
The other point against it is, that a swf can call out when they are about to go down to negate the effect, but solos cannot, it is not 100% reliable, as we have seen in some comp matches, but still a huge advantage, and something we should not have.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608472#Comment_3608472
Undetectable is a status effect you don‘t get it that way and doesn‘t it remove in one tier Myers radius or am I just dumb.
I rarely have issues seeing the killer and with this only a hand full killers get 0m (Myers,Sadako…?). There would still be a radius, red light and sounds which says pallet or window fast.
Sure if you are close to such a tile, but that is why stealth killers basically get a free hit, because more often than not you don't have such a tile close or it has already been used.
I'm not sure about it, because Myers used to have a 6m heartbeat in tier 1 and I don't know how it interacted with monitor, but I thought it made him undetectable? I don't though, which is why I asked.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608466#Comment_3608466
I know what you mean with black Peter, but there will always be something especially in dbd where one side has worse cards
yeah, which is exactly what I meant ^^ But I would rather go down the path of giving killers higher mobility, so holding w does not work anymore instead of cutting the chase short.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608418#Comment_3608418
Nope you aren‘t undetectable when there is no terror radius.
Also this version wouldn‘t instant remove 16m radius you would have to earn them, which can be hard when you want the full potential at the midgame. It‘s far easier to tunnel than going for that. So people who want that have to find one after another. So mostly you can‘t get full value before 1-2 gens left against good players or at all.
A lot of gens aren‘t surrounded by walls and with the height and sounds of some killers they can‘t really sneak up, just getting closer. On the other ones you would have a less effective ghost face approach. This would make it easier to hit with some powers. Maybe people would go more for m1s.
I don‘t have legion so maybe I‘m wrong, but I thought for him and plage most people stay injured and people just get more downed therefor.
Jumpscares are a part of horror and not knowing when the killer is near you before he is close makes it more scary than just hearing a louder and louder TR.
How do you know? I don't know if there is currently a perk combination that does that?
Sounds of killers are usually only audible from close up. A lot of gens are however, many are in jungle gyms or pallet gyms, inside the main building or shack, all surrounded by high walls.
Technically yes, but if Legion has a low terror radius the detection killer instinct of his power also has lower range... So you basically cut your power short...
I don't know dude, but jumpscares are the most boring and uninspired type of horror and I have never been scared in this game and probably noone else with some decent hours. I mean you can prefer whatever you like, but I never saw this game as a horror game to be honest, there is just nothing in it I would associate with horror overall besides the characters being from horror movies.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608319#Comment_3608319
boring is good excuse for why the perk will not get buffed. Sometimes I run monitor&abuse but it is not that good of a perk. I run it to try cut the pre-shift w on chases but 24 meter tr is still somewhat straightforward to pre-run. My guess is that they're just going remove FOV increase and put it the slider. i do not think they will buff the perk. I am curious to what new shadowborn will do.
Fair, but one of the two sides gets the "black peter" in any case... (no clue if this is only a saying in my native language). Because either you cute the chase short because you get the hit before it starts or the other side pre-runs you for half an hour... At least high mobility killers can do something about that, which is also why I would prefer going against one of those over a stealth killer.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608319#Comment_3608319
You can‘t say it will be super bad the only thing it does is closer(/no) heart beat (still red light and aura abilities). Only indoor maps will make a difference. On most maps you can still see the killer from far away or you have pallets and windows right next to the gen. Billy for example would still have a big enough terror radius and the chainsaw would still be loud.
The thing I would complain about would be tombstone myers or plage and legion. But it would give a horror feeling back to the game, which would be amazing.
I don't know if you don't become undetectable if your terror radius becomes less than 0 m. If the killer is taking a somewhat stealth approach you will not necessarily see him, unless he just walks around in the open, and if he walks around in the open you can see him come anyway so what does the missing terror radius actually do? Most outdoor maps allow a stealth approach, besides maybe blood lodge and Borgo...
It would be quite bad if killers rely more on stealth than on their power, because it is a boring interaction.
How would legion be an issue? He cannot use his power with low terror radius and you could just as well see him as before.
I don't think it would bring a horror feeling to the game, as there has never been one for me as long as I play and that has been more than 4 years now... And it sounds more like jumpscares and less like horror.
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@Xelleak said:
I am asking this for two reasons:
- I wish to get better at Great Skill Checks (looking at perks such as Plunderer)
- I have a friend who wants to get into DBD, but they are awful at Skill Checks - apparently they cannot hear the warning cue before a Skill Check appears.
Appreciate it if anyone could get back to me.
There is a website that allows to practise skill checks, you shouold find it if you google for it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608285#Comment_3608285
i think stealth drop off is same for every killer. i remember dev changing this at some point when they changed pig tr from 28 to 32 meters. in that same patch, i remember them adjusting terror drop-off being faster.
Did I overlook an addon? Because I only saw a yellow and the purple addon together being like 12 m + monitor being 8 so we are now at 12 m heartbeat. How do you get to 8 m?
no my fault. i get confused with deathslinger add-on and doctor's calm add-on thinking they're same add-on's. doctor has add-on called calm add-on and for some reason, his add-on is -8 for purple and -6 for yellow. Deathslinger has similar add-on called greek whiskey and marshal badge but his purple add-on is -8 and his yellow add-on is -4. so for some reason, i internalized doctor's purple and yellow being -8 and -6 as same as deathslinger for being -8 and -6 but they're different. that is my bad.
So when I play deathslinger, I still use monitor&abuse because the 32 -> 24 still allows you to go closer to gen to shoot. it still means you have to shoot ->reload, shoot, reload but at least you get opening hit every time but it is not worth using those add-on because they slower your m/s to the point that the time you save for the extra hit is not worth it compare to you know, spending 10-15 seconds.
these days though, i don't play deathslinger. he is unfun to play because strong survivor can reaction dodge his gun shot and shooting between holes vs good player is not viable. you'll just face player that if you chase them, they're uncatchable/make you lose all gens. you'll just lose to strong teams and only be able to defeat weak solo teams which i take 0 interesting in.
But monitor is not even his perk, so why would it be thematic with Myers? Besides the point that being thematic is not really an argument for balance changes.
he'd be stealth killer in T2 but as he hooks entire team, he would have 16 meter TR in tier 3 in mid-end game. that is pretty strong to have instant down+low TR. BVHR is too safe with killer perks to buff something like that for killer. the perk would also shine on killer that survivor stay injured vs or have instant downs such as Bubba, Billy, Oni, Legion and Plague. those killer getting an opening hit can converge into full down due to instant-down/capitalization off injured survivors.
one can dream for bvhr to make stealth perk into potencial meta.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608232#Comment_3608232
My suggestion was monitor decrease tr by 8 outside chase and increases tr inside chase by 8. When you hook a survivor for the first time, you gain 1 token. each token decreases tr by 2 outside chase and increases tr by 2 inside chase. the max is 4 tokens. so it is +16 or -16 if you have 4 tokens.
I hope that stealth never becomes meta for killers overall, because it would be so boring to go against, if the killer plays correctly he will get a hit before you can react to it, basically removing the entire chase aspect, which is why stealth killers tend to not be really fun to against ... Doing that to Killers like Billy for example which are great fun to go against when they go for curves seems horrible and I hope it never happens. I play the game for the chases if every killer just plays stealthy I might as well play something else.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Incapitated is the near equivalent of stunning a survivor. Survivors have multiple ways to "incapitate" a killer, e.g. Blastmine, Head on, and Flashlights. Saying Incapitated shouldn't be in the game is the same is saying stuns and blinds on killers shouldn't be in the game since they are both very similar. Incapitated just got a bed rep from Eruption being overtuned since it allowed 25 second "stuns" on multiple survivors. Incapitated would be fine at lower values. Remember that barely anyone used Eruption until the Incapitated duration and regression amount were significantly buffed.
It is still a terrible status effect because you cannot do anything during it, which is just super boring, also quite the weird comparission of stuns and blinds to being unable to do anything productive xD If I get blinded I can still hit the survivor if I hear them walk or grunt or what not...
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608219#Comment_3608219
With ghost face I have often the problem that I have to go in line of sight to stalk, because there are that many things in the way and shrinking every map doesn‘t help (reworks). With Myers it‘s not that big of a problem, because you can‘t get stalked out of the ability.
I’m not saying undetectable/small TR doesn‘t not help, but they run mostly just in time so that it‘s no free hit like you say, only sometimes. It depends on the survivors whether they are good or not.
Huntress already has an almost everytime available undetectable addon and you hear here holding the hatched. Except of deathslinger there isn‘t really a quiet killer holding something. Xeno already has with M&A almost no terror radius and the turrets are just a radar. Trikster is just bad so I don‘t say more.
The survivors can be the best in the world when they don't get visual indicator that I'm about to come around the corner then they cannot react to it...
Then you need to get more familiar with how much of your model you can show before they are able to reveal you, not much else I can tell you.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607926#Comment_3607926
4 meters is too high. 2 meters is all it needs to be relevant perk. this is same suggestion i suggested 2-3 weeks ago.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608061#Comment_3608061
you already get 8 meter TR using m&s and those two add-on. those add-on are useless because they make deathslinger have pig-level stealth where he moves at like 90% m/s for entire game. even though myer's would go undetectable with that version of m&a, he already has a low tr below 8 that the TR might as well be undetectable outside chase. the perk would be thematic towards the idea of myer's becoming stronger and stronger as trial progresses, stealth-wise.
Did I overlook an addon? Because I only saw a yellow and the purple addon together being like 12 m + monitor being 8 so we are now at 12 m heartbeat. How do you get to 8 m?
The difference is he goes into his stealth faster and he is a range killer. So you only need to go into the mode when going close to the gen, depending on how much monitor removes... And you don't need to go meele because ranged... Sooooo you won't have similar time to reach your goal of being able to get a hit.
But monitor is not even his perk, so why would it be thematic with Myers? Besides the point that being thematic is not really an argument for balance changes.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608205#Comment_3608205
But that’s the reason why I want that perk to be buffed. When I play ghost face almost all times I can’t stalk them because they always see me somehow (not the best ghost face). Also aura perks and the red light would still work.
In my games being undetectable only helps with Wesker, because no one expects that, but besides of him most people see me in time.
I would want a perk where you can grind for a smaller terror radius like former furtive chase except of only working while in chase.
I mean... Seems like you need to try to take an unexpected angle to approach them...
I don't see your point here, all this seems to tell me is that you just don't know how to approach survivors working on a gen without giving the clear line of sight from the most obvious angle ever... I just don't understand your problem... Because you are basically saying no terror radius does not help you because they see you coming anyway, so you might as well have something similar to no terror radius as a perk.
I play Myers quite a lot and can often get right in their face before they even notice me, despite how huge myers model is and what not... But since I only have a 16/12/8/6m hearbeat and I don't walk around in the open but try to get behind cover more often than not... The point is if this is basically available for every killer, which is somewhat the case if you increase it further than 12m then you play everyone as a stealth killer, and that sounds horrible. Especially on some killers with range attacks, you might get in attack range before they even notice your terror radius...
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608061#Comment_3608061
I think that would be something for the ptb and only making it weaker because of one example. Meh
I wouldn‘t complain if we get a second perk that reduces the terror radius, but I think it would fit this perk well.
I don't think more than one is a good idea either, first of all that is just really boring design basiccally having two perks do the same and stack them for more of it.
Also I don't really think it is only one example, think about it when you take the 24 m heartbeat killers... You basically rob survivors of time reacting towards their approach... If it is more than 12 m you will have less than 3 seconds to react to it and find a pallet or window until you are in lunge distance, given that you know what direction the killer is coming from, I don't think that is that good of an idea for that reason.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608031#Comment_3608031
Hopefully we get at least 12m.
What does deathslingers addon do?
I would want a perk that builds up like this, I thought old furtive chase did that and played it as I did not know that it only activates while chasing.
So currently you can get up to 16 m with both, you have a range of 18 m, so you have this window of 4 m where you can hit the survivor but they get no indication that you are there, if you did it properly. If we increase the reduction on monitor too much you can suddently sneak up very close towards people.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607926#Comment_3607926
I have written 2-4m. I just would like a perk, where you can reduze your terror radius a good amount.
With 2m reduction per survivor the max would be 18m. Maybe also a bit too high, but better start higher than too low. At least it should be 14-16m.
Also it would promote not to tunnel.
I don't think more than 12 m is reasonable, think about the 24 m Heartbeat killer that could basically play full stealth... Or deathslinger who could with his addon once again approach you completely silent and be in shooting range...
I don't really think it would promote that... that few m more is really not that much of an incentive...
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@adaw0ng said:
Isn't that just a better and more easy to get Furtive Chase tho? I think they will keep the terror radious size depending of if you're in chase or not, and maybe just maybe add something on top of that.
Sure furtive chase is nice, but you need a hook first, if you are however planning on sneaking up for an easy first hit, like with Oni to get his power going then this does not really help you, besides the point where furtive chase only works on hooks of the obsession.
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@UndeddJester said:
Is it really in need of an additional affect? It's a pretty good perk for messing with perk synergies and creating builds even without even thinking about the FOV.
It is rather a niche perk, but I agree that it has its usage with Myers, Xeno or Oni for example... However I do think it could get a little buff with the FOV part getting removed... Just not so drastically... Maybe increase the TR change from 8 to 10-12 or something like that? But I think everything above would be too much...
Or some different additional effect? But I don't know what...
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@jonifire said:
Can we get the following effects for the rework?
- current 8m terror radius reduction
- for each time you hook a survivor for the first time the terror radius gets reduced for another 2-4m
That might be a bit busted... If it is 4 m per hook every 24 and below m heartbeat killer Wil become undetectable... Or have way too small of a terror radius... I'm sure there is something else to add than basically haling killers terror radius...
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607683#Comment_3607683
It doesn't make sense for one side to have a massive advantage in a PvP game.
Aura reading favors killers too much.
I don't really see how, so you need to elaborate.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607634#Comment_3607634
We always forget about general consensus as soon as we talk about fairness. Killers with a supposedly tremendous advantage in game because it's a horror game.
So, aura perks is like cheating. If killers have a big advantage why should they always know where survivors are?
Are you just making the argument on the base of the theme but not the mechanics? You do realise that does not make much sense right?
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607583#Comment_3607583
Killer mains love to say that only when it's convenient. As soon as we discuss balance and fairness it's all -"muh power role, killers supposed to be feared 'cause it's a ....horror game'
I don't think it has anything to do with the role you play, it is just mostly generally consensus.
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@sheendazzling said:
Auras destroyed the horror aspect of this game.
Sorry to break it to you, but this game just has nothing to do with horror or surprise or what not after you have spend like 100 hours in it...
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@sluc16 said:
Aura reading perks should have stopped a long time ago.
On both sides (specially killer side), there are just waaay too many aura reading options, not too mention some add-ons also provide it.
basically there are perks for anything that can provide aura reading.
hooking or unhooking, kicking gens, survs vaulting, survs breaking totems, healing, simply being injured, carrying survivors, completing gens, opening lockers, being the obsession, getting a good skill check, just starting the match, breaking pallets or walls, going to basement.
The amount of aura reading options is just too much, I don´t thing is healthy for the game, and it should have stayed the way it was a long time ago.
What else are perks supposed to do then? Do you want more regression perks? It is fairly obvious the devs are running out of perk ideas when they just slap a movemetspeed increase on perks despite not touching that for years, for good reasons, as well all saw with MFT.
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@siro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607305#Comment_3607305
anyway nurse has a lot of power to shorter the distances, and the nerf im telling here would make the nurse player rely more on the power and not on the lunge as how happens most the times, they all rely in the lunge. And you may tell me that every killer does, yes thats correct, but they dont ignore the main gameplay that is the looping around pallets, you would never loop around a pallet a nurse without getting hit BY the lunge. Because you can try to mindgame her, but she will catch up with the lunge most of the times.
You are still missing the point where it is impossible to be precise enough to not need the lunge because of the survivor blocking your blink...
Also your argument does not really make much sense here because the lunge is part of the attack after blink, you are already using her blink to get the hit... Just because you re not as close as to hit without a lunge however barely anyone could hit blink attacks, because for the 3rd time... The survivor body locks blink locations with his hit box... You need a lunge to correct for your blink coming short... Do you not understand that?
I would be completely fine with making her longer lunge addon something else, because I find it really boring design...
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@siro said:
Btw fatige addont isnt trash, taking into account that her reload of charges start with the fatige, thing that f.e doesnt happens with blight.
It is complete trash, the recharge starts when fatigue starts, not when it ends... The addon cuts of 7% of your fatigue, that is around 0.15 seconds... If you used one blink, with base fatigue of 2 seconds... It does so little for a green addon and I don't think anybody seriously considers running it.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607363#Comment_3607363
Well technically you already have the option to know your teammates perks... You could just ask them, but apparently you chose not to because it is not really convenient.
Just to correct a misconception there, I am on console. Unless they are on PS5 I cannot ask them as there is no lobby chat on console. Even if they are on PS5, it is extremely slow going typing that message on a person by person case, and unless I want to invite them all to a party chat, its a no go. So on PC, sure you can ask about perks, on console you can't.
This is also a reason why in game voice chat is not necessarily viable, because this game is cross platform, and each platform has its own voice chat system. PS5 has discord, but Xbox doesn't (unless I missed an update somewhere), and I'm darned sure Switch doesn't either.
In both cases there is choice... You can choose to look at the aura of the guy in chase and figure out where he is getting looped and what not and when you are in voice with the boys they can tell you the exact same thing...
I'm not being a jerk, but genuinely I don't understand this statement... I think what you mean is that by adding this feature soloQ and SWF are at the same level, I have choice of auras, or auras and listening to voice chat? My main issue with this is that I personally feel that having comms is an unfair advantage over the killer, especially stealth killers and killers lacking map mobility, so as such, I'm against bringing the whole survivor side up to the same level, and that is speaking as a soloQ survivor.
The killers unaffected are the ones like Spirit, Blight and Nurse that have really good map travesal and strong anti loop power, where the advantage of comms is greatly diminished, and by the same token the advantage of auras is greatly diminished. After all a Pig has to commit to chase far longer than your average Nurse or Blight, so against Pig you can read the Kindred aura of the survivor she is chasing and maneuver around her easily for an uncontested unhook. Against Blight and Nurse who can quickly come back to hook, doesn't care you can see where they are chasing, because they can get back to hook far quicker without losing a lot of momentum. Comms in short, disproportionately punishes weaker killers than stronger ones.
The main advantage swf has is increased efficiency, more information all around and if you are trying to win, the knowledge of having good players every time you queue up because you know your teammates.
To be fair, a big reason I'm against this change is because I don't like SWFs either. I know I can't ask for SWFs to be removed from the game as it would massively downturn the games foot fall, but I also know there is no way to police comms... so that is a necessary evil I have to accept. However by bringing soloQ to the same level with quite a large basekit information buff creates the same imbalance vs. immobile and non anti-loop killers, and I don't belive this level of suvivor infomration should be the game standard, SWF or no.
So I will admit to a certain level of bias, but to my mind, the game would lose a lot fo interest for me if I have SWF level information while playing soloQ
I don't think it is unfair... You cannot expect people to play with their friends and then not be in voice chat and talk about the game... This is a given in basically every single game out there, but for some reason this community has major issues with it, even TCM has it, so we cannot even go for the "it is because it is asymmetrical" argument... For some reason dbd is always the exception, in the worst possible sense.
Sure you could argue that way but Nurse does not really have that great mobility, she is just really good at holding a certain area and her chase is great.
Yeah that is quite the issue, but you could easily negate it by not showing auras of survivors that are getting chased, but like I said before, this is not my preferred solution, I just deem it better than nothing...
I mean you can dislike it all you want, but this is just personal preference at that point... Not letting people be in voice with their friends while playing a coop game just seems weird to me, especially in a game that has so much downtime where nothing really interesting is happening... You sit on gens for minutes with basically not much to do... So why not talk to my friends? When I Play solo q I most of the time watch a stream on my 2nd monitor, unless it is a stealth killer, because the time I need to focus on the game is only a fracture of the whole duration the game lasts... And I'm pretty sure this affects the outcome in some form but so be it then, I m not putting my whole focus on pressing m1 and doing nothing else in that time...
There is no immersion after 2.5k hours and sitting on gens is the most boring part of the game, therefore talking to someone while doing it, be it in voice or with some friends on discord is the bare minimum to make this Boeing task worthwhile... You cannot tell me there is a single person that enjoys doing gens...
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607351#Comment_3607351
There was a lot of counterplay involved in that and good teammates could get a safe tape drop off. It had a lot better and more interesting counterplay than the current rework for sure.
If they kept condemn (which the should and will), they will almost certainly keep tapes as a mechanic to remove condemn. As long as there are tapes there will be ways for Onryo players to try and interrupt their tape drop offs. That is the meaning of curse tapes. You either deal with it in time or die. In my opinion the old system of tapes was far superior, more interactive, and more balanced overall than how they function in the rework.
I found the whole system boring in both versions because either it had no impact at all or the killer just forced you into the condemned playstyle which was neither fun nor interacting...
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Dude you realise posting one word answers is completely useless? So how about you give a reason at least... anything that gives something to the debate is fine... But otherwise your post is as useless as it could be.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607289#Comment_3607289
Yeah I get your point, but balancing around basekit Kindred survivor aura will prove to hit all the weaker killers harder than the top tiers due to the aforementioned chase info that survivors get to reveal the killer to the whole team.
There is a reason why sweat SWFs always go against Nurse and Blight, cause comms doesn't mean sod all vs. them. If we gives solo survivors similar level of info to rival SWF comms... we are substantially nerfing all the weaker killers. There is no way around that point and they'll need monster buffs to compensate, otherwise the gulf between Top tiers and Low tiers will be even more pronounced... and I'm not sure it's even possible to buff those killers to a point they are engaging to go against, where comms level aura read isn't a substantial factor.
It's basically a complete game rework, and someone like Trapper or Myers need buffs out the wazoo to even stay relevant. Not to mention the aforementioned immersion loss... if Kindred survivor aura is basekit, I have to use it. There is no uncertainty of whether I should go or not, the decision is easy, cause I have all the information already.
This is why what I want for Survivor is the ability to see teammate perks in lobby first. Its a far less game altering change, that doesn't need 70% of the roster to be rebalanced. If I can see them in lobby, I can see we lack information reading, and I can make the conscious decision to take Kindred in my build to help my team with Info.
As with my previous example, I can take Deliverance and Kindred, and I can get max value that combo to make up for the teams lack of info. I think the main advantage of SWF is you are aware of each others perks, and can create synergies and/or play more optimally around each others loadouts. This is the next big thing that SWF needs, way ahead of Kindred basekit, and a lot of the issues that need Kindred basekit go away with this change.
It's a far easier change that doesn't completely shaft weaker killers and flood the screen with primary colours without at least it being my choice to do so or not.
Technically I'm advocating for a completely different change that basically removes the gap of information between solo and swf, but for the sake of the argument let's go with this...
If you are in chase with the killer and the survivors can see your aura, does this give you that much more information than being in voice with your boys that just call out exactly where he is getting chased. In both cases there is choice... You can choose to look at the aura of the guy in chase and figure out where he is getting looped and what not and when you are in voice with the boys they can tell you the exact same thing... In both cases you have the choice, you can also play with your boys without voice... everything leaves you the option to just not do that.
I find it a weird argument to say they always go against Nurse or Blight... I don't think there is much data on that and even the 4 men escape squad around Hens does not only face Nurse or Blight despite them having like 130 escapes in a row or what not as of right now? I also don't think the term sweaty is fitting, because it kind of negates the skill of those people, sure they are playing for the win but just because people are trying to win at all costs does not necessarily mean they are able to or are good players... So that phrase is a little bit poorly worded.
I don't really think you would need that much of a buff to the lower tier killers to be honest, because just because people would be able to play more efficient does not necessarily mean they are suddenly better players you could still easily win if you are better than them and the killer you are playing is semi decent. Honestly buffing Myers up to that is probably way easier than Trapper, because Trapper is just so much hit or miss...
Well technically you already have the option to know your teammates perks... You could just ask them, but apparently you chose not to because it is not really convenient, they won't necessarily answer you or are unable to answer since they are from a differnet platform that does not support text chat or what not. Seeing the others loadouts would be nice, but I don't think it is enough to bridge the gap, not even close.
The main advantage swf has is increased efficiency, more information all around and if you are trying to win, the knowledge of having good players every time you queue up because you know your teammates. If you look at the really good survivor streaks they barely run perk synergy, they even limit their loadouts, but what they do really well is play strategically with all the knowledge they aquire and share, and that is exaclty is the main difference between solo and swf. Sure it can also allow you for more synergy, but barely anyone does that.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607337#Comment_3607337
Keeping the Ring Drawing nerf is what gets rid of the annoying condemn playstyle. The biggest issue with Onryo is when her kit encourages slugging. This is because condemn allows her to win without ever hooking anyone so slugging becomes an easy sort of slowdown under such circumstances.
As long as Onryo has condemn as a mechanic, there will be condemn playstyles. If you mean annoying condemn playstyles as in try to get condemn kills, then we will have to agree to disagree since I consider it a core part of her kit. I just want condemn to take skill again and be rewarding for the skill. Going back to a proximity based system without the Ring Drawing add-on adding condemn upon recovering teammates would help a lot towards this end.
My suggested changes would allow condemn playstyles to still exist but not be horribly oppressive to soloq like they are currently, or encourage the old slugging of the pre-rework era with Ring Drawing. I will concede though that maybe adding a condemn stack upon hooking might not be a bad idea to further encourage hooking over slugging.
Even with those changes you could still focus on one guy as soon as he gets a tape, figure out where he needs to put it and prevent him from ever doing so, which is always a horrible experience to go against I don't think it is a good gameplay mechanic at all.
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@Skitten56 said:
Remove most of the rework changes. The following being the most important:
- Remove the map-wide global condemn gain upon Projection as it leads to boring teleport spam gameplay and punishes soloq. It also creates the side effect of survivors frequently running tapes and turning off her TVs which reduces her mobility.
- Remove the 10seconds cool-down on teleports that create the dreaded double cool-down on her power.
- Revert the changes to how tapes work. Tapes should become cursed tapes again and no longer act as a shield to protect survivors. They should get ticking condemn like they used to and should shy away from touching her TVs expect in situations where they need to deny her power or remove condemn. Tapes should not block any form of condemn build up.
- Condemn should be gained how it used to be by being within a certain radius of a TV when Onryo teleports to it.
These are important quality of life changes that I believe will make her a more balanced and well rounded killer.
- Condemn should get some sort of buff such as either 1.5-2 stacks when she emerges from a TV within 16 meters or 1 stack when within 20-24 meters.
- Keep Ring Drawing nerf to reduce unfun slugging builds.
- Fully restore old Reiko's Watch add-on. Or leave the add-on the same while taking the previously nerfed portion and making it basekit.
- Keep the shorter TV cool-downs so her teleport power doesn't feel weak when not running Iri-tape. Added benefit of making her less add-on reliant in higher MMRs.
- Reinstate the old Iri-tape add-on but make part of it basekit. Nerf the rest of the add-on by having it reduce condemn build up upon Projection as compensation for having strong map presence by having TVs pretty much always on.
Perhaps controversial changes I would like to see.
- Change the Iri-Remote Control add-on so that survivors who are fully condemned become exposed until they remove condemn. If not restoring the old Iri-tape then use Iri-tape for this effect and keep the current reworked effect on the Iri-Remote Conrol add-on.
- Distorted Photo or some other add-on which removes her lullaby while demanifested.
- Increase the ranges of Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-Soaked Cloth add-ons to 12 meters or make them active regardless of whether a TV is turned on or not.
- Ideally make half of the fully restored Reiko's Watch basekit and leave the other half within the add-on as a QoL change.
TLDR:
These changes should result in making a variety of builds viable on her again and not make her so add-on reliant. The changes will encourage more fun and engaging gameplay for both sides as well. This is largely due to the interaction between survivor and killer being centered around her teleporting to TVs near survivors again compared to her current rework where she can practically teleport spam and ignore survivors until one of them is fully condemned.
People who enjoy her map mobility can play her as a mobility killer with Iri-tape even if sacrificing some condemn build up.
People who enjoy condemn builds can still run them but the changes will make players have to work for it again and will feel a lot more rewarding. Slugging synergy is gone with the Ring Drawing nerf but the proximity buffs to condemn should make up for it and make condemn still a viable strategy, while not making it toxic and unhealthy for the game.
People who enjoy her stealth aspects or more standard builds will be able to do so with a fully restored Reiko's Watch and ways to improve her stealth with add-ons or basekit changes. They will also have better mobility than Onryo pre-rework without Iri-tape due to the reduced TV cool-downs providing a better QoL when playing her compared to before.
And what prevents the same annoying condemn playstyle people always played with her in this particular version of sadako? As far as I know that was the reason she got reworked the first time...
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@siro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606296#Comment_3606296
Well you may be right its frustrant but as how i replied to someone else lot of times happens that nurses catches survivors just by the m1 extending and not by the power itself, also someone here said that nurse already has add-on to extend m1 hit and it is right, so it will make the "Nurse meta" more flexible, to give options to choose between addons that reduce fatige, addons that extend m1, addons that add charges, etc..
Her fatigue addon is trash though, it was trash before it got nerfed into what it currently is and still is trash she barely has decent addons and I don't really see the advantage or how this would make her more flexible...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607267#Comment_3607267
I understand completely man, but it depends on your perspective of which way you want to slider to move. I personally consider playing SWF to be playing with an unfair advantage. It is long known that for most killers in this game outside of Blight and Nurse, that a dedicated team of organised players will comfortably beat the killer.
The standard model is SoloQ < Killer < SWF. This is why in competition there are limits on the numbers of certain perks, and other perks./add-ons are outright banned.... The point i want to get across here, is we are proposing to basically give survivors enough aura abilities to be as good as the comms in an organised SWF at basekit.
If that is what we're doing, why stop at the survivor aura? Why not just reveal the killer aura whenever any player can see him in their FOV? I realise that is an asinine argument, but you get my point. Giving survivors aura reading to the level of an advanced comms comp team is pretty darned imbalanced, wouldn't you say?
To share an anecdote, I get games with SoloQ players that are very good, and some of the best games I have had are good SoloQ teammates with no comms. Great immersion, lots of tension, huge exhilarating moments, where I myself and my teammates pull off something unbelivable to win the game. Whenever I'm in a SWF (which is a new recent thing for me), it is fun chatting to people, but the disparity of power is kinda boring. I tend to avoid taking really strong perks and add-ons, and instead play more memey and fun builds, and will not take powerful toolboxes to help me out, because otherwise it is just cheap and boring.
I do not want the power of SWF, because to me it destroys the tension of the game, it becomes purely mechanical. The uncertainty and immersion is what makes the game exciting. Frustrating as well sure, but you can't have the highs without the lows.
Thinking about Kindred specifically, unfortunately I do not get to decide what information I am given with this change. If I see the Killer chasing David on the HUD, and I can see David's aura, I know where the Killer is. If I see Nea on a 75% gen, and can see her aura crouched repairing, I know where that generator is. I don't get to not know this information.
So ultimately whatever immersion I have in DBD is completely killed by having this aura perk at base, by virtue of the fact I can that I can have all it's benefits without any of the trade offs. I take a full line of survival perks and never have to look at an info perk, cause the base info is as good as SWF comms.
I don't want to add that thing and then just keep it that way for 70% of killers to be useless, the point is to integrate a bridge between swf and solo to somewhat put them on the same level and then balance around it... Nobody is forcing you to use the tools you will have and if you value your immersion more you should be able to disable such things, but I don't think using communication in a team game is an unfair advantage, it just feels like the devs close their eyes in front of this difference and don't want to do anything to close the gap fully... Which I just cannot understand, this game is missing so many things that were standard overa decade ago... Replay mode, certain settings, ingame chat,... Just think about how long it took them to get a search bar... It is unbelievable how bad this game is from a technical standpoint... And that did not even take into consideration the spaghetti code that breaks random things every patch.
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@UndeddJester said:
Even as a regular soloQ player, I am gonna say no, I would prefer not to have any part of Kindred being basekit, because it gives way more information than you think, and the Killers counter is proxy camping.
Having all other survivors auras globally up whenever a player is hooked is a LOT of information, especially if you combine it with the HUD. Players get hooked often in this game, and can be left up to nearly a whole minute to give the whole team of survivors a lot of value. Like if I said, l "How about a global info perk that gives me all survivor auras for 50% of the game?", I would hope you would tell me to get stuffed. However that is basically the proposition here.
As well as survivor locations, it tells you Gen positions and their progress by matching survivors to their gen. It tells you where players needing healing are. It even tells you where the Killer is. Seeing a player get chased while a player is hooked, or even just deducing their movement will tell you exactly where the killer is, and be perfect knowledge for you to know to go for the save yourself. This encourages killers to proxy camp, cause if they know all survivors can see where they are the moment a chase begins, they also know other survivors are coming for the save. There is no reason to commit to the fleeing survivor, cause another one is coming the moment you leave.
Also by adding this change, you kill a lot of info perks, cause their value is drastically diminished, or in some cases made almost completely pointless. Perks like: -
- Bond
- Empathy
- Blood Pact
- Aftercare
- Open Handed
There is no reason to run any of them, because Kindred will already give you a lot of information value... not to mention this also kills Kindred as well, as especially with the AFC, it'll basically do nothing worthwhile. Even the Killer's aura might not be shown to you cause of the bubble.
Basically it means survivor get a lot of info for free, and all of them can take more survival based perks, because their basekit Kindred info gives them most of what they need anyway.
A game that centres around builds needs trade offs. Your perks and Tools/add-ons alliw you to have builds with Survival, Gen Progress, Team Recovery, Information or Utility. You need to decide what concessions you're gonna make with your build. If you overload survivors with basekit information, you dumb down the choices survivors have to make for the requirementa of their build.
As a mostly solo player, I understand SWF advantage, but for most players, they aren't running the clock system to point out where they are, and what the killler is doing. I genuinely believe that having as much info as Kindred provides for free does not sound good or healthy for the game.
It is not about whether or not people run clock callous but about the tools they can use... Nobody forces you to constantly check on the auras of all survivors to perhaps know where the killer is... It is about having the information if you want it, the same communication offers you, we could as well just add communication for survivors and bridging the gap this way... It is not about free information, it is about tools people already have and other s that don't... And if you think all those perks become redundant if you had some more features then ask yourself why 4men never run them... Because they don't need to because they already have all that information... Don't get me wrong I don't find it unfair that swf has this information, I just find it a bad balancing choice to ignore these seperatgroups of players and not take this into account for balancing.