Archol123
Archol123
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694763#Comment_3694763
Mostly agree but hard disagree on the 'a lot of distance' part. You can run 10m during cd but all you get on him is ~5m as he moves at 1.84m/s during these 2.5s.
As to killers only (?) being able to capitalize on survivor mistakes: Seems reductive to me.
Usually this is just how the gameplay loop is, both sides try to force the other side into making mistakes. I would say some killer can still get hits even if you did everything correct, for example legion in his power, but most of them require a misplay. Just think about normal m1 killer gameplay... You hide your light, moonwalk, whatever so to surprise the survivor and get a hit. Otherwise you will usually not get a hit on the safer structures.
The point is not the distance you make towards him, you are not trying to leave the loop, you can just loop it, your goal is trying to make it to the pallet... Where the killer either tries to curve you again or goes for an m1 in which case you can drop the pallet or take the hit in case you want to save the pallet. It is not about the amount of distance you put in between you and the killer but whether or not you can cover enough distance to reach a pallet or window. And most even stronger loops are just not that long... A long wall jungle gym has more or less 10 m between pallet and window... So if you play it correctly you will reach the pallet again... Most loops are just not that big for you to not reach it.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694428#Comment_3694428
Look, I am not saying he is super OP but he is very strong now. His mobility with the ability to instadown with just a little revving setup is quite the combo to begin with, in my opinion quite questionable design but whatever, and apparently easy to overtune. Yes, I do think he is overtuned. Tbf I never liked versing him. Blight just got his iri tag changed - just saying.
Most other killers do not show up with almost no warning because most cannot roam at mad speeds as he does. I do not mean after hook with BBQ but him abandoning chase and then showing up at a weird angle 3.5s later when HUD chase indicator was still wiggling 2s ago.
What are those 10m distance? I do not quite know what you calculate here and why you apparently consider his cd twice in favor of survs. Sure, survs do run 10m but Billy makes almost 5m during cd. Or do you mean 2.5s rev time + 2.5s cd? While charging Billy is only slightly slower than a survivor where they do run another 10m but so does he pretty much. So your distance estimate as in between surv and Billy is ~45% off. And sure, you can play safe every time you hear his saw and then lose because of it.
Amusing how much killer success gets attributed to survivor misplay as if they had barely agency or survivors had infinite choices. Yes, there are a good amount of surv misplays generally but those are not the point for me here. My point is his lethality and the random ######### he can do while eating all the pallets in a couple of seconds if survs play safe. If there was any form of ingame comms to manage risks I probably would not even engage in this discussion here. As it is now he has super easy instadowns and can show up anywhere almost anytime. There is a lot of lose-lose against him in soloQ.
I didn't count his cd twice, but you make the 10 m anyway + whatever distance he lost on you while on cooldown for 2.5 seconds to get either into lunge distance or even start another chainsaw. That is indeed quite a lot.
I think Billy is great and one of the most fun killers to go against. I don't think he is over tuned, he just not as bad as he was when he had overheat... It is just that you cannot brainlessly drop any pallet you get to but need to actually loop the tile before just dropping the pallet.
Sure most don't have that kind of mobility, but while you are sitting at a generator you can still look around and track the survivor getting chase and maybe even the killer and therefore have a rough idea about where he currently is. Unless you are playing on an indoor map this alone should work fairly well and it is not like he has completely unobstructed patching towards you there are only limited options to end up right where you are sitting on the Gen.
Most killers work in way that the Survivor needs to make a mistake for them to capitalize on that, there are some exceptions, but ideally that's what it is. Making the survivor make a mistake is your goal as killer... You are trying to mindgame them or what not... Like what else is it you are trying?
The issue with eating all those pallets is that people have forgotten or never learned how to preserve resources, maps have been so loaded with pallets that it was never needed, but it is in a fact a skill and when you look at really good players they will preserve the pallet as long as possible. But this is where his curving has counterplay, you don't need to drop the pallet immedialty, you can loop the tile. If you just predrop everything you cannot really complain that there are no resources left on the map anymore.
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@Chappers14 said:
understand everything fine 🙂. And thank you for challenging my views while being respectful. Actually a nice change and even though I disagree with most what you said. Respect that you broke my argument down where you think I am wrong. So fair play your a true gent.
with the new game modes I think we need something fresh a party mode. Problem with DBD players play like it’s life and death. And be toxic to one another. Why we lost a lot of old players. A fun chilled mode would bring the fun back. That’s just my opinion though.New permanent custom game modes will always attract players, being it new or old ones... The point is they would need to stay not temporary and they would need to have some sort of lobby system... So you could exclude people that have proven to be not in your mind...
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694426#Comment_3694426
Probably the one purple addon that makes his chainsaw silent combined with tinkerer. It's a really evil combo for crossmapping xD
But it does not do that much once the survivors figured it out, especially because of the 1 time use per Gen...
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694370#Comment_3694370
I was talking about both cross map and curves. Sometimes you just do not have the luxury of a safer path. You either need to unhook or pick up a slug right now or have to take a risk doing a gen in an area that has been cleaned out of pallets to spread out the game. The 50/50 thing was mostly referring to filler pallets. All it takes is for him to curve tightly so that you have to go wide to dodge and thanks to his short CD, and maybe he brought Thompson's Mix, too, that just might result in an M1 or more depending on how he zoned, where he stops the chainsaw sprint and the tile itself obviously. I never said 'always' by the way. I kept my comment concise, you inferred that. But, sure, why not lean into it, some tiles you just cannot play against him but it might be all you have.
What is not binary however is "he caught you when you did what you had to with limited information so that means you suck". He might just show up with Tinkerer and yours is the first gen to reach 70% and also the most unsafe gen on the map or even if it is not he might bodyblock your nearest/only safety net anyway in which case your 'misplay' was to not bring sprint burst.
And then there is Lopro… but that is not quite the topic.
I don't like lorpo either, as it tends to put survivors in lose lose situations... But yeah that's a different topic, however I really like the bump logic gameplay it enabled...that was fun, no clue if it still works.
Sure maybe there is no safer path, but why is that the killers fault? Other killers can capitalize on that as well? Huntress will snipe you in the open, another killer will spot you and catch you before you can unhook or what not. Or cleaned out of pallets is also not killer specific but a survivor error to dry out certain areas.
His short CD is 2.5 seconds basekit... That's quite alot and it would need to be a huge tile for you to not make it to the pallet... That alone is 10m of distance (+ the distance you gained on him while he was slowed down).
The argument how he zones is also interesting, because zoning is in the killers power, getting zoned might be a misplay on the survivor side..
It does not necessarily mean you suck, maybe you got unlucky, but in any case it does not mean the killer is broken just because you found yourself in a bad situation and could not do anything about it... Sometimes you just get unlucky with a barren map or something, does not mean the killer you play against is broken.
You can still hear his saw, unless he runs a certain addon... At which point you should already be super aware... And for the bodyblocking part... That's a point of perspective... Did he play well because he assumed correctly where you would and blocked that path or did you misplay because despite seeing how might block that path you still went there?
It is just that there are so many things you can do on this killer, and for some reason many people seem to think just because this stuff can work or works on them the killer is broken instead of asking why it worked and what they could have done differently. If you are in a complete dead zone with nothing around and you get caught of guard you should go down, it is a risky place to be in, no matter why it is risky, might be bad map rng or what not, but it has nothing to do with the killer, same with some of the other things you mentioned.
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@SuperCop said:
I'm talking bout when he flies at you from across the map, without warning and just downs you without chase. I've seen it happen. He can slug an entire team pretty easily if he knows what he's doing, what perks to use, dirty tactics etc..
Spirit can't instadown you with her attack, her ability doesn't take her that far, it's not that fast and you can hear it, she also can't see survivors while phasing. It's much more counterable.
Billy you'll hear for a split second before you have time to react, you're downed.
2.5 seconds is not much of a cooldown for the amount of power he has.
He can slug an entire team if they have no clue what they are doing.. Hillbilly is and always was loop able, people just don't know how to... Look at good players and how they play against him or ask some comp players how they play against him and you will see really fast that he really is not what you make him out to be... If you get hit by a cross map you should have positioned yourself better... Less in the open or at least in a way that you can spot him.
Spirits power has much less counterplay than Billy's... She has full control over her movement, a good spirit will hear you regardless of what you do and will hit you almost every time she uses her power... There are many reasons why she is the 3rd strongest killer in the game, and Billy is not close to her in strength. Spirit can basically outplay every pallet or window in the game that is not a god window or pallet...
The sound of the saw appears from 40 m or so, which means you have more like 3 seconds to react to it, it is really not that bad..
Bruh, you are making him out to be some monster he just is not... He can be crouch teched, you can go wide or close against his curves, you can stun him, there are tiles he cannot curve at all and so on. He is really not problematic.
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@SuperCop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694376#Comment_3694376
Because they are. They're pretending Billy not having cooldown isn't a problem or like Billy can't fly in at you from across the map without warning and could do so repeatedly. Even tried to say they'd probably get slugged by Trapper, who isn't even remotely comparable cause unlike Billy he can't just zoom across the map.
I bet if Sprint Burst had no cooldown (exhaust) they'd be crying for a nerf for that, though.
The sprint burst comparison is weird... You would have to compare that to spirit rather than Billy, because Billy has limited control over the maneuvering of the saw, unlike spirit or a sprint bursting survivor. And spirit obviously has a cooldown for that reason.
Billy also has a charge time for his saw so he does not start sprinting instantly. Also what are you on about him not having a cooldown? He has 2.5-2.25 seconds of cooldown after his saw, where he gets slowed quite significantly, calling this no cooldown is not very precise and misleading. Billy's saw has quite some loud noises and you can see him coming if you open your eyes. I m not sure if you are complaining about getting curved around tiles or hit by cross map saws? Because getting hit by a cross map is rather simple to avoid...
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I guess it is easier to believe that people just don't know better instead of thinking about them only having malicious intent... Basically not expecting people to be at there worst ^^ Well in the end it is still in vain isn't it ^^
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@Chappers14 said:
Get over yourself. It’s a mechanical exploit not skill. If I can do it (which I am a terrible gamer) anyone can.
I wish you good luck in playing the 1v1 ladder then and fighting the meaning of words in the English language...
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@Chappers14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694003#Comment_3694003
I don’t deny I am bad as the killer hence why I am never them (except for rituals). But looping is not a skill it’s something I can do with my eyes closed. Its repetitive and stale and one of the two big things that ruined the game. it is just running around in a circle. That is not skill that is doing the same thing over and over. There is no tactical thinking as you already know how to get the V before the game starts. The reason this game has not grown is because the community is so toxic (not including you). It’s why a lot of veterans of the game left and then the children took over this game.
On the game not growing bigger we actually have proof on this site. When they released several ideas and put it to a vote. They come up with a lot of original ideas to make the game fresh and with different game modes. The whole community but about 10% votes for the modes where the game never changed. As they would rather sweat out a win then something fresh. This is the biggest problem with the game. Both sides use mechanical exploits in the game’s weaknesses in development. And mistake it for skill.
Well then why do you even care anymore? The game has been like this for ages and nobody came up and said I don't like looping, go play something else then instead of expecting the game to do a 180° turn back to how it was 7 years ago xD
Also hard disagree on the looping not being a skill part... It is very much a mechanical skill to learn, not only when to do what but also being precise enough on your input... Let me give you a comparison... When solving a rubicks cube you usually learn an algorithm to solve it in a specific order... This in itself is somewhat always doing the same thing however it would be ridiculous to not call it a skill... Especially people who learn to do them extremely fast and quickly reacting to what they see. Or first aid for example, you learn what to do in what situation, and then you follow the steps you learned depending on the situation you are in, both things are undeniably skills and if you disagree on that then your definition just does not match the textbook one... "the ability to do something well is a skill", and if that is the case then so be it, because then it is you against the English language itself, good luck dude xD
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694315#Comment_3694315
Blatantly false. Just getting caught in a transition from A to B with no warning reasons proves you wrong. Then there are relatively safe tiles that are just 50/50s against Billy and even if you win you take the M1. This game is not binary like that.
I mean that would apply for a cross map maybe, but weren't you talking about curves? So curving around something? If you are completely in the open in a way that you cannot reach any tile within the roughly 5 seconds you get from Billy's chainsaw cooldown to him revving his saw and downing you again... Then your patching must have been atrocious... Maybe take a longer but less risky path? Because if you get downed here you took the risk and it didn't pay out... So it kind of is a missplay.
Also it is kind of ironic to say the game isn't binary just to say it is a 50/50 and you will get m1 hit at least no matter what, that sounds quite binary to me ^^
I dont know where people get the idea from that even a missed curve always gives you an m1, that is just bad patching in the survivor side...
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I mean there are many factors, map, killer, team skill difference what not, but your assumption is wild and you have 0 prove to uphold that statement as of now.
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@Chappers14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693250#Comment_3693250
Sorry I disagree as something that is learned. Doesn’t automatically make it skill. All that it is research in what works. And then all you have to do is put it on repeat every game. I can loop every game with ease if I choose. But I don’t as I know it is not skill if a mechanical exploit is giving me the edge. It is the equivalent of saying camping is a skill. Both are as bad as each other. And I do not blame the players for using them. I blame the game for not balancing the game out. Like I said I am a survivor main and only be killer as game practically forces me with rituals. But I see killers all the time getting owned. And know it’s not because they are bad. But because the game has made it impossible for survivors to be catched before 3 gens are done. Nurse is my favourite to go against as normally S Tier players playing as her. Also one of a few that killers ability can counter a loop.
How do you define skill then? Isn't skill something you need to learn and isn't there a difference between knowing something and mechanical skill, but nonetheless both are skills?
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Depends against who you are playing... But I think it would be really rough to win if you don't do anything skillfully... No looking behind, no vaulting the pallet back and forth when the killer approaches you from a specific side, no pre running to safe tiles, no pallet vacuum and so on... It might seem little to you, but all that stuff is already skill you need to aquire, not even talking about all the stuff comp players know...
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@Chappers14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693194#Comment_3693194
your favourite thing about the game is something that doesn’t require any skill. There is no challenge in it. I am a survivor main 99.9% of the time. But it is a boring and gives me the win 90% of the time. The only 10% of the time I die due to camping or by giving myself to the killer as I feel bad. My biggest problem with looping it requires no skill. It is as a mechanical exploit that is practically cheating.
How does it not require any skill to look behind you constantly, know at which tile you are at before you reached it, know how to run the tile, where to check spot, at which tiles which killer can use their power in what way and what you can do about it?
If looping requires 0 skill why are there huge differences in the duration people run the killer in all the 1v1 tournaments? Or even easier... Go 1v1 vs some comp player and then look at the skill difference... If there is no skill involved in it should you not have the same results? :)
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@Chappers14 said:
I know this is going to get me hate from both sides (killers and survivors) but things need to change. So doing my daily’s and every time run into the same problem. The killers are so underpowered to counter a pallet looping team. It feels like a drag race with survivors in a 90mph vehicle. While the killer has borrowed his toddler daughter tricycle. If everyone in the team can loop games over before it has begun. As before the first hook you will hear Ping,Ping,Ping. And you got one hook within two to four gens already done. I don’t think gen rushing is a thing as our sole objective is to put on gens. But with pallet looping leaves the killer know chance. It annoys me that loopers believe they are winning by skill. When in fact they are winning solely by using a mechanical exploit. We all know the game was not to be designed to be played like it. But sweat players take the game to serious and practically have to cheat to win.
I believe the best cause to solve this problem is to have even less pallets. Know they took some of but take a few more of. And maybe the addition to an extra gen. To help get the killers back into the fight. And I believe this could half the problems with camping. If a killer is having a half decent game won’t need to resort to desperate measures.
Oh boy... I mean sure in the beginning they did not think of it, but they adjusted the game accordingly in consideration of looping. And as the chase is the most fun/only relevant part of the game for probably a big majority of people I don't see the reason to do any of that? I mean... If we had custom game modes that are kept forever sure why not make this one but if not for the looping, on both sides, I would not bother to play this game.
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@adam1233467 said:
Honestly, if there is any kind of a tech, that if it benefits one side and is unintentional, it should be removed, I don't think it's healthy for the game, it can be fun and that’s it, but the other side will not be happy, and this isn’t the first blight tech that’s getting removed, so it’s not something new
Hug tech does not really benefit the killer side only, it adds a layer of gameplay for both sides and it can be a hit or miss. Hug tech will be inferior to bump logic in most cases and by removing it you will just see Blights going for the saver alternative.
The question that should be asked is not does it benefit one side or does it give an advantage to one side, it should be can the other side do something about it? Does it have counterplay and is the counterplay something good/fun/people are able to pull off. (I can go more into detail about that part if you want)
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@Alucinor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693146#Comment_3693146
ok getting absolutely bs hits with hug tech and 10k dpi is fair and balanced and devs should keep it in the game
What has hug tech to do with dpi? When the Blight tries to hug tech you you get quite the warning, because he needs to get close to the object he tries to hug. And then you can decide whether to go wide or close, similar to a Billy trying to curve you. Chucky on the other Hand just out of nowhere, with no warning flicks and hits you 180° and above.
Ask some good Blight players what to do against hug tech and you will see that the situation is not as dire as it looks like, I'm sure someone like Lilith Omen will gladly explain you how to play against it :) Otherwise just keep learning/playing and you will get an idea of what to do :)
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I would totally be in favor of some advanced graphics settings... With what we currently have there are games from 2004 that have more advanced settings... Kind of embarrassing for a newer game to lose to some 2 decade old games in that regard.
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@Alucinor said:
funny how chucky techs were removed in a week but for blight it took like 3+ yeas
Funny how Chuckys tech had basically no counterplay and allowed for 180 flicks and more with absolutely insane movementspeed whereas the hug tech on Blight can be outplayed and the how to is known to the community for years... It is not really comparable.
That is somewhat similar to the stagger tech, there was not much you could do as killer about it and it could lead to somewhat of an infinite on Ormond if the window spawn was the correct one.
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@opxtreme said:
Hillbilly is insanely good at slugging for 4ks now and before his overdrive machanic. Are there any plans to add a chainsaw use cooldown after a hit at least? I think it would be a healthy nerf for discouraging insta downs only back to back
If the Billy is that good to slug you all in 2 min with aura perks, do you really think you are going to win the game if he runs 4 slowdowns? The solution to this is already in the survivors hands, position yourself better and learn how to not get curved... Is pretty doable in my mind.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692619#Comment_3692619
OK, but would it mean anything to hard tunnel one survivor 9 times?
Against good survivors? No. Against those who don't know how to deal with tunneling and / or get downed 10 seconds after the chase starts? That one survivor would stay on the hook all game and maybe get saved when the 5 gens are done, if the killer doesn't manage to kill somebody else as now the team has run out of hooks and they die at their first hook.
If the killer applies that much pressure that you don't get a Gen done in 9 hooks then sorry dude but then this is on your team xD
I agree, but that's the thing. Have you played SoloQ lately? I don't know how many times I have been unhooked in front of the killer, or even worse, have seen how my teammates get downed over and over again in less than a minute because they are a "bully duo" and their only focus is to blind the killer and save their pal to the point of trying smart things like body block the killer off the hook while being injured. That's why I don't even think that it would benefit survivors that much either, because now your survival depends on your teammates doing good even more.
But hey, trying things like this is what PTBs are for, so I'm all in for them to at least test this.
Have played it and was okayish, but yeah this is an issue... But not necessarily soloq only, just bad player thing sometimes.
I mean to be fair, if your team is not good but the killer is you would probably lose regardless.
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But there is also no depiction of that in the game? It is just walking back and forward... What you make out of that is only your interpretation of the killers intention... But the base of it is rather thin.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692513#Comment_3692513
That can solve camping, but it won't do anything to hard tunneling. In my opinion, it would only lead to the killer downing and hooking the same survivors up to 9 times in a row with the only way to stop it being the exact same as it is right now (in other words, applying the exact same solutions I already mentioned). In fact, it will make killers tunnel more than ever as now is even more important to get someone out the game as soon as possible, as if you don't there would be 4 survivors doing gens for practically the whole match. Unless BHVR make all those things survivor doesn't like (like spending so much time sitting in place doing gens) take so much longer, of course.
That, and people complaining about how they died in their first chase because their teammates were "insert gaming insult here" and got downed 9 times before the first gen was done. Sorry, but I don't see it.
OK, but would it mean anything to hard tunnel one survivor 9 times? You are not getting someone out of the game easier with that? The game is over before you got that far because the other survivors are doing gens.
The priority with that solution would be to get fast downs and apply pressure and not focus one person only... Because you are not getting someone out fast with 9 hooks needed for that xD
If the killer applies that much pressure that you don't get a Gen done in 9 hooks then sorry dude but then this is on your team xD
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692569#Comment_3692569
Whatever, what?
I actually do mind where people do it. The should be booted from the game.
Nah I don't think you should get banned for silly stuff like that, sounds way too minor.
Whatever in the sense of you are free to have your opinion :)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692473#Comment_3692473
Yes but if someone is just crouching up and down on the ground it's not really what they are doing. If a survivor (and the few killers that can) is t-bagging over a downed survivor or a killer is constantly walking back on forth over a down survivor you can be pretty sure what they are doing. That is toxic and sick but is someone is just constantly crouching up and down and not over someone they are most likely just acting the fool and not ever thinking of the act. I sure as hell know I'm not when acting the fool.
I don't really mind where they do it, but whatever dude ^^
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@Batusalen said:
The realistic answer to that is: Never. No matter what they implement in the game, removing a survivor from the match ASAP will always be the most efficient strategy for a killer to follow, just as doing all gens as fast as you can is for survivors, unless the design of the game is changed completely.
They maybe could alleviate "hard tunneling" with another one-sided "anti" game mechanic, but I have not seen any suggestion for it that didn't imply removing the possibility of defending the hook or punishing survivors for their mistakes from the killer. Basically, all of them can be summarized as "guarantee saves".
But there are ways to prevent or solve tunneling situations in-game. Like waiting for the killer to be distracted to do the unhook, not unhooking 2 meters away from the killer, body blocking to force him to chase you instead of the recent unhooked survivor, etc. Right now, the basekit BT by itself already makes hard tunneling not worth it in most situations (I repeat, in most situations) unless the survivors make it easier for the killer (like using your free Endurance to tank a hit for another survivor or not using your free Haste to get to the safety of a loop). There are also perks you can use if you are getting tunneled that often, including the buffed Decisive Strike in the next patch.
To conclude, I know that getting tunneled can be frustrating, but that's the game.
I guess you could make the 12 hooks shared so survivors only die from hook 9 onwards... That would removed hard tunneling as the fastest way... And camping as well... Because that person would sit on hook for 9 min before dying, game would end twice... However I don't believe people would be willing to stay on hook that long...
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I don't think it is sexual frustration, more likely showing dominance in their mind? But I don't really see that discussion being fruitful if continued down that road.
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@ImWinston said:
- the only thing I can't stand (besides slugging for no reason) is when the killer mimes "sexual acts" on the survivor on the floor... I don't understand how the T-bag is considered toxic, but dragging Thalita onto Badam's mattress is fun and "normal" (I'm a man)
T-bagging refers to something sexual... Google it if you must or trust me on this... Let's just say there is also a Southpark episode about it with cartman... If you don't want to Google it but want an explanation what it means DM me I guess...
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@felipesegatto1 said:
things are super unhealthy, unfair and unfun the way they are now.
I guess when there is way to implement it, without needing to rebalanced the entire game, without it being easily abusable and without breaking other things or limiting the concept and design of newer killers or perks and so on.
The issue is just that 12 hooking everyone is not possible in an even match, even less likely when you play a weaker killer... So you need to put some kind of focus on at most 2-3 players when you are trying to win. Which leads to the issue that the system might need to be killer specific... Because maybe a Nurse or a Alien could deal with it, but Freddy won't get anything done or so. Which is why I think it is just not that easy.
Also I don't even know if the devs are willing to remove tunneling or if they consider it a valid strategy. In the sense of well we don't mind tunneling, but if you don't like it here are 4 perks you could run against it. So I don't know.
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@Guroneko said:
About less than a week ago (♪week ago♪), I was playing as Meg on a Badham map. In the second floor of its main house, there's an empty closet opposite the Gen. While hiding, Chucky sniffed me out trying to ninja the generator and slugged me there. Understandable— I play just as much Killer and get just as upset at sneaky survivor rats poking my gens before sprint bursting away.
What I DON'T understand is why he came back into the closet and, instead of picking up and hooking Meg, proceeded to roleplay "taking advantage of her." I dunno what words BHVR's decided to filter, but just think of the grossest thing and go with that. Backpedaling and holding forward repeatedly. Needless to say, I didn't do much afterwards besides quit DbD for the day.
Fast forward to today. I'm playing Yoichi on Midwich against another Chuck. After a grueling 11 minute game, it's finally down to a Quentin and I to try and wrap up 2 gens. I did my damnedest up until Chuck slugged Quentin CLEAR across the map and left him to look for me, just so I couldn't Hatch out of the match.
I mention Yoichi because I'm using Empathic Connection, so Quentin can see me across the map since he's injured. I also recognize what Chucky is trying to do here, fight the urge to quit and do my best to have fun with it. I hide in basement, emote to Quentin to crawl to me while Chuck wastes time searching and I pick him back up so we can have another go at it.
No luck. Chuck finds Quentin again while I'm on a gen, slugs him while I'm clear across the map a second time and proceeds to deny Quentin his right to leave the game with his well-earned BP. At this point I simply throw up my hands, sprint to the center of Midwich's courtyard and force notifications until he finds me.
His response after I call him out on "forcing a 4k" instead of "earning" it post-game? Something to the effect of "I got a 4k tho." At the same time, I was being lambasted by a Cheryl for "jerking around" instead of "playing the game."
I took a couple of breaks from the game after Nemesis and RPD were released. Best thing that ever happened in a multiplayer game I enjoy. Now? I'm wondering if licensed characters/killers are even worth the baggage they bring.
Bonus round: Which Killers attracted the most toxic individuals before Chuck? In hindsight, I find this psychological phenomena fascinating. It makes me wonder what types of people watched Child's Play growing up.
EDIT: I apologize if this should've been labeled discussion instead of question. These events incited my first time using the forums.
I mean getting the 4k there has nothing to do with earning it... You are just rolling a dice hoping to find hatch first and close it, finding the survivor and downing him before he finds hatch or having the gates in a way that makes it possible to effectively patrol them. Getting the 4k in that scenario is like 95% luck... There is no earning it.
As for the first case where he was w/s you on the floor I mean…I guess he felt the rat playstyle was bm so he proceeded to bm you as well... However in all fairness, is that really that much of an issue? This or teabagging are silly for sure but I simply cannot find it as horrible as to stop playing because of it. Especially Ghostface looks hilarious when crouch spamming, he can do that all day long as far as I am concerned xD
Also I fail to see how the licensed character is to blame for the playstyle of the player... If somebody wants to be an annoying brat they can do that no matter what character they play.
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I mean no offense, but you don't need to play the game mode... So it is still a good thing that it even exists and I think it should stay, as it does not hurt the players that don't like it since they don't have to play it. That said, I do agree that the gameplay could be adjusted, survivors could scamper below pallets because otherwise there is not reason to ever kick a pallet...
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@weareweebs said:
If you are going nerf adrenaline, then nerf Lightborn because by your logic that perk needs a nerf too. How is it fair that it can completely remove the effect of flashlights, and it prevents players from doing tome challenges too. Lightborn should have charges, it's a game-breaking perk. Player items already barely last long and flashlights are way too situational so that perk should be nerfed or removed from the game. In almost every match the killer is using Lightborn, really unfair I am wasting items I cannot use that are already rare to get and cannot do tome challenges because of this.
So you are complaining that the killer is basically running 3 perks only? Guess you always run background player or another perk slot for flasglight/flashbang saves, because otherwise this sounds great... Killer wastes a perk slot almost every game xD
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690141#Comment_3690141
I agree he does have some very overly forgiving hit boxes so I could see that being narrowed a little, that's fair.
"an infection mechanic that gives 8% hindered that doesn't pause while in
chase, literally can cover ground as fast as you can gain on him. "I could see being made healthier, but not a nerf. How would you suggest changing this for the better but not nerfing? Maybe not build while in chase but build even faster out of chase?
"tunnelling play style that a lot of people default to because it's the "easiest" playstyle to play"
I disagree with this perpetuated sentiment in the community that most killers tunnel because it's "easy". I'm sure there are many that do, but that's not the majority. The majority do it because they feel forced to. Most killers would rather not tunnel as it's not as fun, chases are.
They already played around with his hitboxes when he came out and what we currently have is the middle ground, before you could slide through people's models and still not get the hit... So I'm quite fine with how he works currently.
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@mizark3 said:
Technically, if it uses the MMR system like ELO comparisons, you lose or gain based on the difference between the compared players' numbers.
That means if a theoretical minimum of +/-5 adjustment, and maximum of +/- 20 adjustment can exist, there is a scenario where you can lose more than gain with a 3k. This is super specific though, as you would need to beat 3 relative babies, with a 4th baby escaping through the gates.
If they were at say 800/800/800/800 and you were at 2000, then your kills would be worth 5 (theoretical) MMR each, and their escapes 20 (theoretical) MMR each. So a +5/+5/+5/-20 would leave you at net -5. This can also be reversed, with a baby 800MMR Killer (say Bubba) facecamping a pro 2000MMR Survivor in endgame with a (theoretical) +20/-5/-5/-5 for a net +5.
We don't know the minimum MMR adjustment, but allegedly the max is 20. We also don't know how they weight differences in MMR (Does 800 vs 1200 count as 5/10/15 for the higher number winning, or 20/15/10 for the lower number winning?
We do know that Hatch counts as a draw, or both sides get 0 for their adjustment value.Apparently you can get +0 at some point when you get close to like 3k mmr according to some data miners. As far as I know people experimented with cheater bots that won every game and physically could not go beyond a certain mmr.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Just curious. My friend usually always lets one go but his opponents are pretty silly
So the mmr works as four seperate 1v1 s so the killer vs each survivor individually and you gain or lose mmr depending on whether that specific survivor escapes or dies. Depending on the mmr difference in each of those you can never know if you gained or lost mmr in the match, because theoretically one player that lived could have lost you so much mmr the other 3 dying could not make up for. But usually you will gain mmr with a 3 K, when only the fourth guy escapes through the gate after all gens are done. Hatch does nothing for the mmr and I don't know how a gate escape works if hatch got closed... In the sense of I don't know if it takes into account whether all gens were done, gates are opened and then the hatch gets closed.
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@Gr8Jackalope said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P5DWNEC4GQAM/twins-add-on-update.png
With the recently teased Twins rework, I've decided to share some add-on concepts I came up with a while back. Once again, like with my Executioner concept, I've tried my best to keep each add-on balanced and fair. Feel free to criticize and whatnot. Can't wait to test and see the Twins changes on the PTB!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KL2A4JZ3JB2M/screenshot-2024-03-30-085554.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WLYANCHIESF1/screenshot-2024-03-30-085849.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EPD6DV6KR7CZ/screenshot-2024-03-30-090007.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NDG8DWZ11T6S/screenshot-2024-03-30-090059.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2JQSQ77J58JI/screenshot-2024-03-30-090137.png
Over half of them don't work anymore with how they want to change twins. You can recall him at any give time, so the brown addon is function less, he can be kicked when a latched onto a downed survivor, so there is no kick window anymore. Unbinding time and Charlotte wake up time got severely reduced, with those two addons it basically would not exist anymore at all... Charlotte would have 0.5 seconds wake up... And so on... Sooooo yeah... Since we don't know how exactly their power will look like it is hard to comment on the things that are not already useless by what we know right now about the changes.
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@darkshadows8326 said:
Make Hillbilly's chainsaw go into cooldown after downing a survivor. 30 seconds as a starting point.
30 seconds is way too much and he does not need a nerf to begin with, he is completely fine. With proper positioning you can avoid getting chainsawed and there are many tiles that cannot be curved to begin with. Besides that he always offers counterplay based on your pathing and whether you close or wide around a tile when you expecting a curve.
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@survivorsneedabuff said:
Every survivor I play sucks yes there are good ones and it may be my build but the killers are so overpowered like every single one is faster and most have a ranged attack or a lunge attack it's super unbalanced the survivors need a buff
Mostly a math making issue? You tend to either get total babies or teams that stomp you into the ground. If you want a challenge play something like Freddy or Trapper and you will feel powerless.
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Well to quite Zubatlel "Because Huntress is dogsh** against good players".
I would go with the map design argument as well many of the newer maps have really weird hitboxes and too much stuff to put in line of sight making her annoying to play as. But I would say even with those changes she is Allright to go against, nowhere near as annoying as Trickster to go against.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689170#Comment_3689170
Correction : You can have a comeback if someone plays bad and makes mistakes. If you are way behind in hooks or gens and everyone plays well then it's generally over.
It's easy to suggest better gen pressure but :
- Not every killer is equally good at spreading pressure. Apparently killers like Nurse, Blight, Spirit are better at this because they have mobility. Other killers struggle at being after everyone and often have to resort to getting someone out to create a pressure afterwards.
- Running every match with top best addons / perks - how much fun there can be in playing such game?
You said yourself - play better and try not to die quickly. If you suggest this stuff to others they will almost resent you for it. In their mind killer must spread the pressure and hooks no matter how is the state of gen progress is in the match.
That not every killer is equally strong is a given by design and nothing we can do much about. Sure in a perfect world they would all be really close together strength wise, but just by how hard some are and how easy others are that would just lead harder killer barely being played, because they are way more effort to do well with. Guess that can be looked at individually, but it will always be an issue.
However in the normal matchmaking you can still do really well with every killer if you are good enough, as we have seen by m1 only stuff some really good players did.
I dont think you will have more or less fun whether you run the strongest stuff every game or if there is an ingame mechanic that rewards you for doing poorly. Both sound rather boring and would give me somewhat of a feeling of only winning because of x and not because I played well.
They can if they wish to, I could not care less. That sounds just super entitled. It is not like anybody has a right to make the opposite side play in a specific way unless prohibited by game rules or what not.
Such problems should get tackled by base mechanics anyway and not by perks and such, but it is what it is. Given by what we have currently one side feels like gens go super fast which is why they tunnel, which is funny because that way you are not pressuring anyone else, leading to faster Gen progression. Then the other side is complaining about tunneling despite unhooking into the killers face and not taking the aggro.
I dont know how to appropriately solve this thing, but there is like two generals things that could be done, punish unwanted playstyle or make them impossible and try to give bonuses for players who play nice in that sense. But as to how to do that in practise I have no clue. You can go all in and just make recently unhooked survivors invisible to the killer and remove their collision entirely until they progress the game in anywhere and show the aura of the unhooker, so the killer does not wander around aimlessly. Or you could reward the killer for spreadings hooks by giving him a bonus, maybe stronger Gen kick, or general slower progress for the survivors, that could also go the other way, you hook the same person over and over again and the Survivors repair gens faster or what not. However all those ideas have major flaws. But still those at least only try to get rid of unwanted playstyle, they however don't change the outcome of a game because one side is a lot better than the other one and punishes it for that.
Let's look at the two examples in the first post, gens popping super fast because of some ridiculously strong perk addon item combination... So either you are getting really outclassed in chase and those builds didn't do that much, or the Gen builds are just too strong and need to be looked at. But in both cases the solution is a lot easier than introduce some unfair mechanic.
As for the second example one guy dead at 5 gens. That should basically never happen if the survivors know what they are doing. (Unless the other side is just waaaaay better) If you just don't unhook the person right away your team has time to do generators, sure you need to get them eventually but when the killer tunnels you want them to stay on hook as long as possible, because that is all time they are alive and the killer needs to spend not tunneling the survivor. Yes it sounds stupid, but you can actually show negative micro in that way where you immediately unhook and allow the killer to just tunnel the guy out way faster than if you just waited some time. In which that survivors just stays in hook.
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Compared to other games it really isn't toxic. It is just that certain behaviors are considered toxic, that only work because of the asymmetrical state of the game. I have seen toxicity in Dota 2 or Counter Strike and they are on a completely different level. It often seems that people see everything as toxic in this game...
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I would also prefer the no collision solution, but when people use it offensively they often just DC when I go for them... Like don't bodyblock me then... I don't mind it being used offensively too much, but I would prefer if they didn't, I obviously don't want to tunnel the guy but if he wants to get tunneled OK.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688217#Comment_3688217
In that case absolutely every killer should tunnel the first survivor asap instead of doing so when there are 2 or 1 gen left for equalizing the match. Does that sound fun to you?
By leaving less and less options for a comeback you essentially say to players - want to win, go hard or don't complain afterwards. This also means people shouldn't be asking for ''tunneling'' solution and changes that give survivors the chance to recover, like recent DS should not be happening in the first place.
To sum up - got gen rushed, take it like a champ and move on to the next game. Got tunneled off the hook at 5 gens - that's sad but don't complain, just move to the next game. No wonder game quality keeps dropping when changes make game harder for one side or another.
As for the tunneling, how is that something new? There is not really much that prevents it and if the killer wants to he can obviously do it already.
You can have a comeback, if you play well, not if a mechanic detects you didn't play well and rewards you anyway.
Got Gen rushed: Try to pressure gens better, if you get gen rushed in most cases your chases took too long. People use the word Gen rushed for everything without thinking about why hens go fast... Usually it is just because they chase one guy for an eternity.
Well for the tunneling you can run perks or play better to not die so fast, you might still die at the end but the killer will get like 3 hooks total.
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@Nehkran said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688866#Comment_3688866
That would be nice, but there's also the issue of their gameplay…
I mean sure, but a. There should be enough players to not encounter the same one regularly and b. If you could influence matchmaking with the block function that what be super easy to abuse and block all decent players to only go against potatoes.
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How about the function makes it so you don't see their texts in chat anymore? That would actually be useful...
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688217#Comment_3688217
Well, if the devs had a good matchmaking system that prioritized putting players in the same skill bracket together it would not be needed. But I'm not in the opinion that other players should have their game ruined because of other people's actions.
Name a proper way to determine skill in this game? That is reliable despite map rng and works for all killers equally... The issue is not only the mmr system having this weird softcap stuff and what not, but also no way to determine if a player is good.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620461#Comment_3620461
I think the effect is fine
but infection should totally be removed when getting hooked
Then you would never get value out of the slowdown the infection gives... So it would be better to go for hit and run or even slug? I don't know, maybe make it not start again until you get, but don't remove it entirely.
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That sounds horrible, if you are losing really bad you should be losing the match, you should not just get a buff for playing bad, because 1. This would make mmr even more watery, as now you can win games you had no right to win to begin with and 2. If you re going against a comp squad of survivors that make you get nothing the entire game, not hit, saving pallets like they are worth money and what not, the last thing you want is for this game to drag on even more, just get it over with and go next, because it is not fun at all. But you also should not win this, as the other side is just clearly better than you.
Imagine this, you took years to get good at the game and mastered a really hard killer, and now you get punished by the game, because the other side has no clue what they are doing...