Adjatha
Adjatha
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@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272475#Comment_3272475
I'd be okay with him being 4.4 m/s if he could have all 3 guards patrolling at once.
Oh, dang, really? He can only have one out at a time? Or their durations are too short for all three to be active at once?
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Wouldn't it be nice if survivors had a real Exhaustion meter that depleted and recharged, so they couldn't just hold W all the time, non-stop, and out-run every non-ranged/dash mechanic in the game? So that they had to hide and sneak and use the environment tactically to give themselves a breather mid-chase?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but:
- His power utilizes three npcs, each with their own speeds, up-times, and skills, but the killer cannot specifically pick the one they want, they have to cycle between whatever's up next, removing any tactical deployment.
- He comes to a full and complete stop when he turns on his power.
- Survivors vanish from his screen as he's using his power.
- Actually drawing out a patrol path takes time and using anything on the fly leaves the guards basically stationary.
- His guards have a delay between when they're deployed, when they appear, when they notice a survivor, and when they actually start moving.
- The survivor can see the spawn-spot where the guard will (eventually) spawn
- Survivors see the radius the guards can detect them at, allowing them to stay 100% safe at all times.
- Survivors move faster than 2 out of 3 of the guards, making it impossible to hit them with the guards unless the survivors run directly into them (despite being able to see where the guards are from a great distance).
- The guards have extremely short uptime AND have a "turn off" button in the form of a banner that can be tapped to instantly dispel the guard.
- If the survivor DOES tap the banner, they gain both Sprint Burst AND Endurance, making them both invulnerable to damage AND lets them get away from any possible repercussions
- The AI on all the guards is exactly as bad as the Nemesis Zombies - a killer released a year and a half ago and STILL not adequately fixed
- If you have one guard deployed, you cannot deploy another guard and there's a delay between when the original guard goes away and when you can deploy the next one. Which kind of makes it COMPLETELY pointless to have three of them and EXTRA absurd that you can't pick which one you're going to deploy.
- His knights make a tremendous amount of noise, broadcasting their presence to all survivors, even if they ignore the visual warnings, and preventing the killer from listening to the survivor noises they need to track.
- The knight can't actually enter his power whenever he wants to, you have to tweak your physical location slightly to be able to enter it, making things even more difficult to do on the fly
Does that about sum it up? Am I missing any other weaknesses his power has? Am I mistaken on any of those?
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It'd be like if cleansing at Plague's fountains didn't leave blood pools for her, it just full-healed the survivors.
A marvelous bit of "hey everybody at BHVR, pitch a self-nerf we can throw on the new killer! We're puttin' em all in!"
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Sadako got a TON of buffs before official release and she's still awful.
What kind of design team and QA team sees her pre-buff incarnation and says "Yeah, that looks right. Let's send it to the PTR!"
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If you were supposed to use your guards in a 'control and guard' sense, they would've made them last longer. Like, a LOT longer. That tiny duration says "use it when you see a survivor," which works against you because they get more info than you do, it has a long start-up, has a 'turn off' button the survivors can tap, and you lose sight while placing it for some reason?
Seems like yet another killer designed and balanced by the Survivors Deserve More committee.
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Another killer who knows less about their power than the survivors? What a shock. Be nice if they let somebody else take the reins over at Killer Design HQ.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
BEFORE YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THIS POST: Please read this entirely...
Back when Survivor queues were 10+ minutes, matchmaking did not work at all for Survivor and I was paired against people from a wide variety of MMR ranges. And I had some of my most difficult matches ever as Killer, not from the perks, but from the amount of skilled Survivors I was facing.
Past a certain point, MMR stops looking for quality match-ups, and just looks for a match to throw you into, typically using a set of "backlog" players. And with a lot of Survivors leaving or swapping to Killer after the 6.1.0 Patch, I think we see an inverse effect happening. Killer matches are easier and less stressful than before 6.1.0 because the quality matchmaking no longer exists for Killers, and instead has shifted towards Survivors.
Which overall, I feel like this would explain why I seem to be facing Survivors who are not at my skill level despite me being at the MMR range to face difficult opponents. It's why my Killrates (despite me never using slowdown perks) has risen with me barely losing my matches (most end in a 2K or 3K). And while some can attribute it to the survivor perk nerfs, I think the quality of my matches have far more influence than the perks and items I face.
And none of this is to say that Killer is "the easiest role" since stuff like that is subjective, and Killer can still be stressful sometimes and I do have to take breaks from the game, just the game feels easier than before as Killer, and my opponents as Killer do not feel on par with myself.
Overall this is just food-for-thought, theory-crafting at best. Would love to hear some of your thoughts on this?
I am afraid I have to inform you that "MMR doesn't do its job and just matches you with whoever it can as quickly as it can" cuts both ways.
My last 30-some games were like 50% 0ks. I had around 3 "four kill" games, where I just let the last survivor escape. So, I had NO 4k games, and got bodied constantly, but it kept putting me against extremely good survivors. AND I was playing the same killer every time, so the 'different mmr for different killers' problem wasn't a factor.
Killer is not easier than before.
The matchmaking simply does not work. If you're finding killers too strong, it's because of the terrible "fast as possible" matchmaking system.
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If bots are even remotely fun to play against, I see no good reason to ever play in queue again.
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How does it work?
Well, in theory you get assigned a number based on the values of your other killers when you first start playing, and every time you kill 3 or 4 survivors, that number goes up and every time 3 or 4 survivors escape, that number goes down. Every killer you own has a different value so you'll play against weaker teams when you aren't good with a given killer and stronger teams when it's the opposite?
Or do you mean how it works in actuality?
Because in actuality, killer MMR does do anything. The game just pairs any available killer with whatever survivor group has been waiting the longest. Doesn't matter if they're MLG 360 No-Scope Pro or if they've just downloaded the game for the first time. It's just "fill the lobby to reduce the wait."
Your numbers don't matter as killer.
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@MeanieDeeny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257355#Comment_3257355
A month long ban?!?
As someone who plays this game daily and has invested a lot of time and money into it, if they were to ban me for a month…I’m not coming back.
So just don't repeatedly DC any time you don't get your way. Pretty easy to avoid!
And if you DO repeatedly DC, then: Good riddance. Nobody wants players who are going to bail the first time they get downed in a chase, 45 seconds into a match.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257355#Comment_3257355
While I think that Medkits can be toned down a bit (but only if they remove useless Items from the Bloodweb as well...So much useless stuff in the Survivor-Bloodweb), I dont consider anything else you mentioned a problem. Heck, I even have the impression that CoH helps the Killer more than the Survivors, because I see so many Survivors wasting their time booning Totems across the Map while they can sit on a Gen instead.
But Killers are different, they can actually prepare in the Lobby. Perks like Franklins or Sloppy Butcher (against Medkits) exist. And from what I read, identical Survivors are more used as an invite to tunneling than anything else.
And well, a month-long ban would not help anybody. Except if you want DBD to die, because nobody who gets a month ban for DCing will come back playing.
I'm not proposing a month-long ban if your internet drops out by accident. I'm talking about moving the penalty for repeated DCs all the way up. If you're ducking out constantly, you shouldn't be playing a team-based game. There are plenty of bad actors, but the folks who are DCing constantly are the same people, over and over who just come back because a 2 hour time out isn't enough to discourage these people.
The only way to fix a ton of DCs is to remove players who think that's an okay think to do in a multiplayer game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yep, something needs to be done. Like, removing the stuff that makes those people DC or give up? Sure, you will always have people who do that, but the number can be lowered if we adjust Nurse to a non-broken State, remove oppressive Add Ons like Alchemist Ring and stuff like that and remove the ability to stack 500 Slowdown-Perks to let the game last 1 hours so that basically every Killer can win.
But sadly I know exactly that an actual solution was not meant, just "bruh, I want free BPs, ban those players!".
And if that worked, what's to stop killers from ragequitting when survivors bring identical skins, which gives them an unfair advantage by hiding identities? Or when they bring CoH, which is absurdly overpowered? Or when they all bring toolboxes or med-kits or flashlights or whatever?
Pretending that you know best and tanking the game for four other people because you'd rather ruin four other peoples' game instead of have to possibly interact with something you don't like is the behavior or a selfish child who doesn't want to get any better, they just want everything to be made around them.
And that kind of person deserves a month-long ban, to let them think about if they actually want to play DbD, or if they want to just be childish and self-important.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257164#Comment_3257164
This doesn't work.
You know what will happen if you make DC penalties too long? The obvious; people will not play and instead will queue up to play some other game. BHVR know this so they have to balance between making time outs long enough to be annoying but no so aggressive that people stop playing altogether. People who DC will still play full matches most of the time and removing them from the matchmaking pool for too long hurts the game more than DC's.
The reality is you cannot make people play matches they don't want to no matter what you do.
And I'm saying: people who don't want to play as a team don't belong in a team-based game.
It is GOOD if they quit DbD. The game is actively worse for having them. Let them wander off to a single-player game, where they can ragequit like babies and only affect their own gameplay experience.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257170#Comment_3257170
Okay and then what?
People will just AFK.
Srop treating the symptoms, treat the cause.
The cause is "people who are happy to ruin the game for four other strangers."
The solution is to remove them from your game.
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Banning the DC players for intolerably long periods is the only way you're going to get people to stop.
A few hours or a couple days is clearly not enough.
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Pyramid= better addons
Cannot be stressed hard enough. The whole list needs to be reworked, from the ground up.
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They tried making more zombies. They could not get more than 2 to work without crashing the game. And even 2 broke the game for about a month of the killer's release.
It's HEAVILY likely that the killer's original power was to create more zombies through the infection meter, in fact. This can be ascertained through a number of things:
- The first is simply that they tested multiple zombies in the first case. The GOAL was not what we got, so creating more zombies certainly seems like a logical Resident Evil power.
- Nemesis is the ultimate expression of the Tyrant, the final result of T-Virus testing, The opening stages of the T-Virus led to a zombie apocalypse. It would certainly make sense for his power to create lots of zombies. Add to that that survivors can kill zombies with pallets, and it seems like that would be the LOGICAL choice for a power that becomes deadlier as the game progresses (but which the survivors can arrest via destruction.
- The Nemesis' original Daily Ritual was "reach tier 3 three times in a match." The current model reaches T3 once and is done for the match. Every other killer ritual CAN be done in a single match, which strongly suggests he was supposed to be able to reach T3, do something, and reset to a lower tier, much like Myers.
- A simply absurd number of his addons affect his zombies. Considering that there are only two of them, they're very slow, and super unreliable, it seems very VERY odd for so much of his addon kit to be entirely focused on zombie buffs, unless the original plan was to let him create a swarm.
- Nemesis' T2 power lets him destroy pallets. This is very strong. It takes MORE infection to reach T3, which gives +1m to his attack. This is nothing. It's pathetic. Why would it take more to get a far weaker effect? Because it was an after-thought once they removed the 'spawn more' effect.
So, all that by way of saying: no, they won't be adding more zombies. They'll need a different coding team to get them working.
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Anyone who thinks an easy-to-read hook counter would provoke more tunneling doesn't understand what it's like to play a killer.
You make the call to yourself what you need to do, what you're capable of doing, and what the survivor team is likely to allow you to do. Having a quick-reference for numbers you ALREADY KNOW do not factor into any part of that decision.
If you want to reduce or eliminate tunneling, you need to make systemic changes to the game because guess what: the best path to victory is making the game 1v3 as quickly as you can. Full stop. And that means: hunt the weakest player as fast as you can. It's why real life predators go for the sick, old, young, and feeble. If the intended goal was to spread out hooks as much as possible, the game would look MUCH different than it is today.
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The killer manually hooks every survivor. The survivor portraits tell you exactly who has been hooked. All an accurate counter shows you is a short-hand, so you don't have to remember the events of 1-2 minutes ago.
This quality of life feature is seen as helpful and right for survivors, who all get this information at through the old system.
This quality of life feature is denied to killers because of the tunneling strawman. If a killer is going to tunnel, they're going to remember the survivor or at least the spot on the list of which one has been hooked already.
The disparity is a simple representation of an underlying design philosophy: the power role is expected to struggle with as many in-game elements as possible to take the pressure off of the team side. Trivial things like the hook counter are just one layer. Memorizing which breakable doors are traps (they actually make loops BETTER for survivors if broken), letting survivors use the same character model with identical skins to obfuscate the intended target, scratch marks not changing for better contrast on bright maps despite their original design for 100% dark maps... these are all gameplay choices that are made specifically to make the game feel worse for killer players.
And this philosophy carries through to the macro level. Look no further than modern killer power design. Virtually everything is Hard or Very Hard these days. The belief appears to be: if a power is easy or fun to use, it is a design failure. That killer powers must be a challenge to overcome for the killer, or else they must be objectively bad (poor controls, very slow wind-ups, insane cooldowns, etc). And even when they ARE hard to master and punishing to use, the survivors must be granted as much or more information than killers get on the powers (knight's patrol path, Pyramid Head's warning beam).
It sucks.
It's a crummy philosophy to say "one side must fight against the game itself as much or more than they get challenged by the other side."
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255218#Comment_3255218
The thing I'm looking forward to most is being able to practice with Killers I've never played with. I'm sitting on a handful of killers I've never played with because I don't want to sweat while I practice. It's been forever since I played Legion, and tonight I thought it might be fun to play a few matches with him.
Tonight I had 100% blood point incentive to play killer, so naturally that's what I did. But now I see why they needed killers because very experienced players need Killers to play against, and a very experienced player I am not. First match was against a SWF, and it was absolutely brutal. Not only did I not get a single hook, I didn't even get a single down. It was absolutely abysmal. And the second match I managed to get one hook...and nothing else.
Again sweating while practicing makes for a horrible learning tool. I cannot wait for the bots!
But remember! You're locked into your killer selection because all your killers have their own MMR value! That way you can try out a character you're not great at without having to play against survivors intended to challenge your highest skill killer!
...except that was just a lie and killer MMR gets thrown out the window when super survivor groups need a punching bag.
"You've never played this brand new killer before? That's okay! Here's a 4-man SWF, each with 7000 hours in the game, their own Twitch channels, and BNP toolboxes! Thank goodness for killer-specific MMR!"
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@SweetTerror said:
Say what you will about bots, but the crap you can encounter in this game sometimes makes me look forward to never having to play with people again.
First match of the night our team goes up against a blight. After a few minutes one of our team members disconnects because they were found first. Boo hoo. Not too long after that the blight downs and hooks me. Despite the fact that he brought party streamers, he proceeds to camp and hit me on the hook, thus literally guaranteeing that he's not going to get any value out of his party streamers. The match ends without a single generator being done.
Crap like this is what made me stop playing for months, and coming back to crap like this makes me want to put it down for months more. But knowing that I won't have to deal with toxicity, or disconnecting players, or camping/tunneling killers makes me very eager for the bots. And if BHVR improves how efficient they play as time goes on, then I'll never hop back into a live match ever again.
Preach on.
Even if bots start badly optimized, with enough momentum behind them, they can be improved and this game can FINALLY get a second game mode. Since Survivors don't want to do secondary objectives (Old Undying, Pinhead's Box), the base game's never going to get more interesting. And since they refuse to put SWF in its own balance category to be able to balance around Solo Queue, Bots are the best hope.
I, for one, welcome our digital playmates. They can't possibly be worse than the flesh and blood ones.
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I certainly haven't seen a big push for survivors to not bring a CoH to matches just because it's demoralizing for the other side.
Play the way you want to. Pinhead's passive is the only good part about his kit. They nerfed the hell out of all his addons that made that part of his play better, so by all means: use the perk. His active ability is atrocious, so any help you can get is totally fine.
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They refuse to give Solo a buff or incentive that SWF does not also benefit from.
SWF makes better use out of every single survivor buff, often to absurd degrees (louder killer notifications, information perks, boons, hook state tracking, Hold W Away From Gens strat, base-kit BT, massive increase in number of pallets per map, and on and on)
Every time they add more survivor buffs and killer nerfs, SWF begins to stomp down kill numbers.
In turn, they have to buff killers to make the game even slightly challenging to SWF.
These killer buffs trickle down to further impact Solos disproportionately to SWF.
Solo asks for MORE buffs, which SWF uses better, which makes killers weak and in need of more buffs, and repeat.
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They've buffed survivors plenty. It's just a no-win cycle that just keeps going because they refuse to put Group Content and Solo Content in their own brackets. If you're playing Solo you are objectively playing this game on a Harder mode than SWF are. And the prevailing game design philosophy is to bury their heads in the sand and pretend it's not a tremendous difference.
"Maybe this NEXT survivor buff will only help Solos!" they say. Over and over again.
It never will.
Not until Solo players get something that does not ALSO help SWF.
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If anything, they're making them way, WAY brighter.
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@SMitchell8 said:
Game 10 = Pain 😫
And that's why people tunnel.
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@Sava18 said:
Both the "killer's got omega buffed" and the "Survivor meta got omega nerfed" are both overstating things horrendously. Survivor's lost iron will and the most busted perk in the game went from SSS tier to S tier. M1 killers got decent base kit buffs and killer's overall got 10 seconds off gens.
I don't really understand the whole, there is nothing to grind so I don't want to play anymore. If the grind was all that kept you playing, did you really like the game in the first place?
If I'm not playing for BP, I have to get some degree of variety from each match. Okay, so what does that variety encompass?
- It clearly can't be "try for a 4k" because I got three of those in 22 games. If that's what I was aiming for, I'd be pretty disappointed 82% of the time!
- It sure isn't the difference of the game objectives, because there's a single objective and it never changes. Judging by how survivors refuse to do alternate objectives like old Ruin/undying or Pinhead's box, the playerbase of this game will never accept DbD gaining variety of any kind.
- It could be playing different killers, except you saw how my early games went? Do I really want to swap to a new killer and have to face the "just get massacred for 3 games in a row before we set you down at a lower tier" every time I want to try somebody else?
- It USED to be "just get four stacks of BBQ," because that was reasonably challenging but also reasonably achievable for most games. And while the overall goal of that was "get more BP," it remained a secondary objective to shoot for. But instead of making that basekit, that's just been removed because META SHAKEUP.
So the question remains: "did you really like the game in the first place?"
Yeah. I did. Originally. I've played it a bunch over the years. It's still the exact same, but the competition has gotten insanely harder while the rewards have vanished. So... what's the point?
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SWF is just Easy Mode. Everybody else is playing the game on Hard.
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There are WAY too many killer perks with outrageous CDs that invalidate them. Dragon's Grip is a great example of this. 80 seconds makes it totally useless.
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They sure do love nerfing killers into unplayability and then ignore them for the rest of the game's existence.
Do not mourn for that thing you liked, get excited about New Thing instead!
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Easy way to buff literally any killer who gets nerfed into unplayability:
Revert the nerf(s).
That's really all that has to be said.
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@C3Tooth said:
She has the most tools in her kit (Mori, slowdown, stealth, teleport) explain why everything of her is so weak.
I would nerf her teleport in exchange to buff Mori & Slowdown
- She can only teleport once per min. Anytime she teleport, all survivors gain a stack. This is to make the stack increases consistently.
- At 7 stack, survivors has Exposed status and can not lose stack anymore. This is to make her stack actual dangerous and force survivors to go for tape rather than do Gen then do tape.
- Taking tape will drop Item, making inconvenient for survivors. This may give killers a bonus time because survivors run back to get their item.
A soft change, but I believe its game changing alot.
This is a good point. She has a very complicated set of passives, none of them particularly good. Jack of all trades, master of none.
There are more ways to buff her than stars in the sky. Will we see ANY of them? Well...
"They'll take a look at the Mid-chapter." (tm)
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@Ravio_Li said:
Literally if someone DCs within a certain amount of time of the match starting, just refund the match. After that, make it so anyone else can leave penalty free and all items/offering will be saved no matter what, maybe with an extra bp gain to anyone who sticks around.
Also give the person who DC'd a penalty that actually scales up to massive levels. 1 - 24 hours ain't gonna cut it for people who believe they're entitled to just ruin four other people's game because the killer happened to find them first. We need weeks, if not months. Make them some personal time and hopefully they'll begin to appreciate that playing with others online isn't free license to act like you're the only person who matters.
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How about a penalty to survivors who bomb-dive the hook 0.001 seconds after the killer has hooked a survivor, trying to farm their own team mates?
A not insignificant number of people complaining about 'camping' literally do not give the killers any time to walk away and think they should just get free unhooks all day long. Punishing people who can't stay hidden for 3 seconds will do a lot more to 'solve camping' than a lot of people realize.
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They can't make Iridescent AddOns good for more than a handful of killers, why would a tier above them be worth anything? It'd just be more Obsidian Goblets and similar trash that you avoid taking in your bloodwebs like the plague.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217993#Comment_3217993
Weird. I could swear that I've been attacked with chains when the chain hunt isn't active. Whether that's a bug that's now fixed, or still present, or I'm delusional and desperately attempting to recontextualize history, I've got no idea.
Yup, as the guy above mentioned: the chain hunt timer stops for everybody except the person with the box. You still have to solve it in that 90 second window. So, if you grab it and go running off somewhere, time is ticking down and by the time you decide to start, you may have taken too long.
As you say: the active part of his kit is a complete mess. And the fact that they decided to nerf his box without fixing his controlled chains tells you all you need to know about the Balance Team priorities. He could be so much fun to play, if only "fun to play" was an actual concern when it comes to balancing killers in this game.
Instead, they'd rather rake in the money from the release and let the killer die off post-nerf, relying on the NEXT killer to bring more money in. It's a terrible system and it's why you never see more than a handful of the cast actually being played. The game needs a health balance to make ALL killers viable, but it just ain't in the cards.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216450#Comment_3216450
The issue is that Pinhead's also really good at interrupting the box solver. The box likes to interrupt its holder 3 times and waiting for those to be over with often gives Pinhead enough time to show up and chain you. And if you start the box and get chained, RIP, he's on his way to your location before you've even started.
Luckily it's not a very common strat, because he's not a common killer, but versing a box control Pinhead using solve time addons and Hoarder is downright miserable gameplay. It's pretty Legion-tier. I don't really see a fix to this, though - it'd require redesigning Pinhead and BHVR doesn't have a great track record when it comes to making positive changes when they rework killers.
The box only interrupts survivors if they wait the full 90 seconds for the chain hunt to start on the bearer. If you go get it at 80 seconds, you can solve freely.
And yes, he's not a common killer. His controlled power is AWFUL. It's as hard to hit as Deathslinger, as long to charge up as Huntress, as hard to control Pyramid Head, as easy to juke as Trickster, and as unrewarding to hit with as a long-distance clown. He's the culmination of every bad part of every other range-type killer. The box is the ONLY thing that makes him playable, and they nerfed all the box-type addons that actually made that part of his kit hard for the sake of the lowest possible skill level of survivor.
It's a shame, because his animations and voice lines are great. But the balance team, as always, decided "a bad killer you have to just fight your way through" is far preferable to "a good killer who is a delight to play but might be at all challenging to play against"
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@Config said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216464#Comment_3216464
Hi, I have almost 3000 hours on the game, I play comp and I can tell u, pH is not overrated, after his nerf I thought he would be a lot weaker but he's still super strong, just harder, his anti loop is great, but that's not the major issue, he can tunell without worrying of any perk, or basekit bt. U can get someone out of the game in 2 minutes if u play correctly, but i respect ur pov
His torment trails are 100% in the hands of the survivors. If you tunnel with PH, it is because the survivors let you, because they walked into it.
Ergo: they are bad survivors. If they walk into that within 2 minutes, they are VERY bad survivors.
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Oh look. Someone over-rating Pyramid Head, the most over-hyped killer in the game.
What a shock.
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More killers should have insta-kills if the survivors choose to ignore the killer mechanics, refuse to use the obvious locker-avoidance strat, and fail to evade the killer in the end game where it's finally charged up.
Honestly, charging up an auto-kill through killer action and survivor failures should've been what the mori rework should've been instead of the 'all four down' cherry-on-the-top thing we got.
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The box will ALWAYS spawn closer to the survivors than to Pinhead. All it takes is one single survivor to do it.
"We can't expect survivors to do anything other than gens" does not make a killer strong. It means the game caters to very lazy players.
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It's like you can see when they move somebody new to head of the Map Design/Balance team.
Rework all the maps to remove a ton of pallets from each?
Redo all the maps for higher graphics and re-add ALL the pallets that were removed (and add a bunch more on top of it)?
Yeah, that's the hallmark of two very different hands on the tiller.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215834#Comment_3215834
It's really not a problem, that's how they designed the game, it just simply can never be changed, because that's the Core basis of Dead By Daylight, if you change this, it becomes an entirely different game.
Generators have never been designed to be a difficult task. They could half the time generators take to be made, and in return, make them extremely difficult to complete. That would entirely shatter the balance of the game to the point they'd have to redo the game from scratch.
The skill level in DbD as survivor is in many other things though. The challenge isn't doing gens. It's looping, knowing when to stay on a gen, when to leave, which generators to complete first, etc...
Generators represent a simple task because it takes a long time to complete. It can't be difficult AND long, it would just be too exhausting to play survivor.
So, if it makes the game more challenging for survivors, the answer is "the game wasn't built that way so they shouldn't make the change."
But when there's a random chance of botching a check built into the game, it's "they should change the game to remove this thing."
Yep. I see how this works.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215834#Comment_3215834
Because most of us can't do that reliably all the time. Otherwise every survivor would bring hyperfocus without stakeout. Overcharge would be useless across whole MMR. Flash saves and locker saves would be easy for everyone and killer would always loose on most loops and always get hit by pallet and nobody would even know what huntress lullaby was supposed to do. Doctor's antiheal build would also not be a thing (all of these things are about reaction times).
It should be pretty clear that is not the case. And I see 0 reason why random chance skillcheck with 0 counterplay is still part of the game. What is the real purpose of it? Forcing survivors to stay on a gen if they touch one? Why?
It feels like you read the last sentence of my post and ignored everything else.
I'm not seriously advocating for removing skill checks. I'm saying that they should be SKILL Checks, not merely Checks. The "just remove them" was a position of absurdity by way of illustrating how pointless they are if they aren't actually a challenge, as the poster I was quoting indicated when he said "Skill checks aren't designed to be difficult though."
I'm all for removing random failures outside of all survivor control. But ONLY if they actually, dynamically scale the difficulty. They have this MMR success number for you and they ought to be using it for something other than an extremely loose interpretation of matchmaking. If you're top MMR, the non-killer part of the game should be harder and that's as much a fact as how new players and low MMR players need a leg up with way easier skill checks that they are struggling with.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215429#Comment_3215429
Skill checks aren't designed to be difficult though.
They only exist to make repairing generator interactive rather than just pushing a button.
They really are not difficult for anyone.
Isn't that a problem, though? A game is supposed to be a challenge, right? Every part of a killer's gameplay is challenged by the survivors, from finding them across the map, to chasing them off gens or off healing, to hunting them down, to successfully hooking them, to finding and snuffing their boons and so on.
Why should the gameplay that is occupying the majority of survivor time (since the killer can only ever chase one person at a time), be unengagingly simply? If people were actually focused on the task at hand, you'd have survivor less 100% aware of their surroundings at all times, perhaps. If there was a legit chance that they'd fail skill checks if they mess up even slightly, gen rush would be diffused organically rather than requiring 10 more seconds on each gen.
The point of the skill checks was to divide attention enough to make the presence of a killer something of a spook and give players a task that is supposed to be difficult, even in the absence of the killer actively adding challenge to your gameplay. I'm pretty sure they didn't put it in just to be 'less boring' alone. If that's the case, why not just remove skill checks from everything? If survivors can 100% every check every time, what's even the point?
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214994#Comment_3214994
Giving by pure random chance -10% progress is NOT fair. Given OC, it can be at least something to debate, because it's not random. But regular skillcheck blowing up when you stop working on a gen is pure BS and totally random buff for killer that he did not earn in any way.
But changing OC skillchecks to work at same random would be game breaking. Consider 3gen and any killer that can rapidly move thru the map. You would be able to choose between free hit (and maybe still failed skillcheck because of hit), or OC regression.
At the current state of regression - this would mean killer can decide to give as a freebie 4 gens to survivors from the very beginning of the game. All he needs to do is to guard his 3gen. And there would be nothing survivors can do. And with eruption, OC, CoB + any random 4th perk, it would be enough to win the game.
If skill checks actually increased in difficulty according to your skill, I would agree with you.
As it stands, skill checks are exactly the same difficulty on your first game as your 10,000th one. Once a survivor has learned how they work, they will never miss another check in their lives. It's a considerable portion of your gameplay experience and it both does not involve the killer player AND never gets any harder.
Having the random chance to maybe clip you right as you let go is about the only time a survivor with even a moderate amount of experience will ever fail a check. It they changed it so people with low-to-no MMR got easier checks and people with high-to-max MMR got WAYYYYYYY harder checks, I would agree: don't let the random chance screw you out of a check.
But it doesn't. So that portion of the game doesn't need to get any easier.
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Dream World should randomly spawn snares around the map every so often, for each survivor in it (without draining the killer's absurdly limited pool).
Also, every so often, the blood-freddy should begin to form on gens being worked on by sleeping survivors, to fake out if he's actually teleporting or not.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3214926#Comment_3214926
OC is best regression. But you need to make sure nobody (capable of hitting the skillcheck) touches the gen during that time. It (potentially) provides more regression the CoB.
It rewards you for camping a gen, which gives the survivor team plenty of time to do all the others. The only time where it's useful is when there is one gen with a ton of progress and zero other gens that have been worked on.
Its biggest weakness, ironically, is survivors tapping the gen to stop the regression. Because the skillcheck doesn't stop or punish tapping in the slightest.
Because the perk was made incorrectly
Which brings us back to the thread's topic
To which the answer is: no.
Regular checks shouldn't work like Overcharge.
Overcharge should work like regular checks.
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The fact that you get to make the Overcharge check even after getting off the gen is exactly WHY nobody ran overcharge before. The whole point of the thing was "punish survivors for tapping gens" and then it was built to be MORE forgiving than normal, everyday skill checks! Mindboggling.
And then they buffed Overcharge, but then nerfed it immediately after. Now, taking the perk is worse than not taking it, unless you ALSO bring Call of Brine (one of the few regression perks not nerfed because... tadah! It's on Sadako, the worst IP killer they've released to date, which nobody wants to buy, but now they have to because she has the only decent regression perk left)
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If I had to guess, it would be that Michael Myers would be the obvious "excited for Halloween?" meme, but he's strictly IP and can't be freely used for corporate posts. The Ghostface is in a far more nebulous quasi-IP state because while the Scream movies are IP, the ghostface mask isn't (it's just a mask they sell at halloween stores and was specifically chosen for the Scream series because the point of those movies was a deconstruction of the slasher genre, and so their masked killer was 'just some guy wearing a commonplace mask').
So, presumably, they're free to use Ghostface without worrying about a lawsuit.
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There's 4 survivors to every 1 killer. By sheer numbers alone, that's going to generate more voices.