Slival
Slival
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This is an exploit and is repotable. Take video/screenshots of your games (Geforce Experience has built in hotkeys for grabbing the last little bit of footage, so do consoles), and submit a report at https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us - make sure you file an in-game report on them for exploiting and in the report you'll need their Steam ID64/gamertag. Like all exploits, this is bannable.
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Not a lot of killers will agree but I am a rank 1 1500 hour killer and I think it is pretty fair. A person with dead hard can be countered through 3 seconds of patience and even if it lets them do one more loop that isnt so bad and is less than many killer perks save/restrain BUT-
This depends on having fair loop. There are a few loops left in the game where making a window one more time via dead hard adds an arbitrary 20 to 25 seconds to a chase, and this hurts 110 percent killers even more. The fairer all the loops get, the more reasonable dead hard is because it adds a consistent extra length to chases, instead of a random amount based on map rng. In that sense it adds about the same length of time as sprint burst. Killers who dont simply wait for the dead hard and THEN attack are the problem (getting dodged at close range is much more damaging than merely having the surv make another loop) but is mostly a killer skill issue. I assume everyone has it unless I have recntly seen an exhaustion perk used, and everyone else should too.
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@Mandy said:
@SunaIIanu is perfectly correct, Steam doesn't allow it - and if the name is reported they will act on the report. I don't believe they will ban based on a name but they can force a change their end and I've seen them do this - they can also filter out the words with their "hearts".
We do not ban for names, this is something that is dealt with by the rules of the platform on which you are playing on.
Also, just to correct something that was said in this thread - no video evidence is not required for chat offenses, we do have the chat logs so an in game report is enough.
Bit of an irresponsible policy. This is the only online game I can think of where the devs wash their hands of content experienced by players in the game. Lots of games don't use your steam name as your in-game name, but just washing your hands of it means I could show you a video of something I experienced in the game, say someone has changed their name to "<my full real life name> should #########", and I report this directed harassment and because it's in a username, they get off scott free. Behaviour that's wrong and harassing toward your users should always be the concern of people running an online service.
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@Xayrlen said:
If you think that bots or survivor's shells will stop DC's or help overall with the game: you are wrong. It's like implementing bots or singleplayer to a multiplayer game when game is bleeding it's community because how bad it is. It's not about covering DC's with punishment or something else, but about figuring reasons why people are pushed to DC. Developers need to focus on fixing game balance and bugs instead, and only then implementing something like that.
You do realize the game has more players every day, there are massive and positive communities - not on this forum or reddit, but in twitch chats and discords - and that your comment has more to do with your own agenda than reality, and there is data to back up that you're wrong, right?
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.And that's just steam. Consoles have even more.
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I mean the answer is that it is not part of the intended function of the game that a killer who has caught up to you be unable to hit you. Various mechanics exist. There is no point to "juking" the killer and once you get to red ranks you cannot really 360 or juke a red rank killer at close range, and this is by design.
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What rank are ya'll playing at. I'm rank 1 killer west coast of north america, I play about 5 hours a day (1200 hours so far) and I run into 1 definite hacker (able to get up instantly from being downed over and over, impossible to hook on any hook, has names like "you can't hook me", spams hooking and unhooking himself) every 2-3 days and 1 probably hacker (suspiciously faster than me at loops even when I slide on the surface, seems to both sprint burst and dead hard) every day. I've had to start recording all of my games because of it, in case one shows up. I hope I have your luck from now on.
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This is a known hack multiple big streamers have been hit with over the laat few months. Nothing you can do without video. They can do gens instantly, heal infinitely, hook and unhook themselves, permanently blind you. Not hard to find videos of it happening to high profile streamers
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As the new gen sounds are a buff for killer and a debuff for survivor, no you can't have a vote on it in this 4 v 1 asymmetrical game, is the answer. "Can we vote" will always result in the survivor-side of any question winning, it's why you don't vote on game balance
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Assuming you are survivor: Are you using a map offering? Are you or anyone else last minute character switching (say to be identical to someone elses appearance)? Are you Last minute switching to an item when you previously had none? Any of these may prompt a killer to quit during loading. These are powerful tactics with no counter. Often map offerings for maps with known exploits are used. Killer queues are super short most places they can afford to bail.
If you are killer are you using Mori or map offering? (or shroud since they might think its a mori)? Some survs will forfeit the match rather than face that.
Depending to your answers to these questions it might be a real bug or a response to your actions
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I do it if I have a way to easily find the last survivor. If I have whispers I will probably try to triangulate the last guy. If I am doctor with restraint whispers and undying I will slug because I can shock the last guy to make him unable to heal the slug, thus guaranteeing 4k unless unbreakable. whispers restraint also lets you find slugs so..
If I am hag or pyramid or spirit I will also try to mind game or trap the route to raise the slug. Few survs will let their friend bleed out even if it is a trap
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they see me sawin
The denied truth: they hatin
saw machine go brrrrr
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@Lx_malice said:
Body blocking the hatch is also useful in a scenario where there's 3 survivors and 1 gen left. One survivor uses a key and your natural instinct is to close the hatch immediately so the others can't jump in BUT this activates endgame and completely ignores the last gen that needed to be completed. If you body block, however, the hatch will eventually close on it's own and endgame won't activate and the last 2 survivors will still have to complete the last generator.
Good point. If you DON'T do that it's like you're giving them multiple generators for free.
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It IS a zoning tool. Zig zag it at a loop and the survivor will either get hit by you or get hit with torment.
I like it both thematically and mechanically: you always CHOOSe whether you end up Tormented, but sometimes the choice is between gaining torment and being hit. I do also point out that people who are trying to hold sprint burst 99'd can't cross a trail, as an example, without ending up with it readied (and thus unable to run).
I've played PH a lot and I really am comfortable with the power level of the trails (also using them in chases is so so powerful, you WILL end up tormented or hit, that's the only choice).
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They go away after about 15? seconds and he can place as many as he wants but is slowed while dragging them. So if he drew in a straight line down, say, the street in the middle of Haddonfield, the start of his line would be vanishing by the time he was all the way down the street
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It is certainly not by design that a survivor can "run" the killer for 5 gens. Be lost from them, sure, but that's only if the killer loses sight. It's... really not valid. I mean, I don't know what region and killers you're going against, but I can't think of a single streamer, for example, I've seen get run for 5 gens. I can't think of a single red rank surv in a game vs. a red rank killer (so say rank 4+) who loops anyone for 5 gens since the last update, and I've looked.
I mean, I'm not super invested in you being right, but you might want to look into it more.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1302160#Comment_1302160
You believe wrong. I'm referring to now. It is PERFECTLY reasonable to believe a survivor can be good enough to avoid ever being caught. Is it 100% viable? No. Some killers will straight up be better than you, and if they are, they deserve the W. Regardless.
Well this isn't quite right either. By design any one survivor can be caught in an average of 30-45 seconds against a competent killer. Not top 1 percent, but a survivor who isn't caught flat footed will be able to run you for 30-45 seconds from full health to down. An injured survivor it might be quite a bit less.
I can conjure the wireframe of every map configuration I've seen, into my head, and I can only think of a very few situations where a competent killer (not top 1 percent, just competent) can't get you. If a killer has to chase you for 1.5 minutes to catch you, solo, alone, they have already lost the game entirely. If you are aware of a situation where a competent killer who is intent on catching them (not top tier, just even merely competent) can be run around for more than about 45 seconds without some kind of exploit, then that's impressive and surprising.
Now 45 seconds is enough for 1.5 gens to be done, so it's still not ideal, but the game is designed around survivors going down after about 30-45 seconds, and in the new fixed maps, this is borne out (given you need 9+ hook actions to even have a hope of ranking up in red ranks)
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
So let me get this straight. First of all, I’ve been seeing often Red rank and Rank 1 killers that camp and tunnel hooks? How effective is this system where killers lose rank or BP for staying next to a hook the whole game? Clearly not effective enough if these proxy camping, tunneling killers are red rank still. Yet survivors lose rank over this? How is this their fault? Why does the camped/tunneled survivor gain so little BP and get de-ranked for something they had no control over?
One important thing to understand is that proxy camping isn't real. It's something survivors invented, along with gen/hatch camping, to try to take a good tactic (monitoring the route to the hook and beginning a chase with the first rescuer/slapping them for an easy injure) and make it seem shameful.
Camping within about 8-16 meters of the hook is pointless. You lose visibility and survivors - solos and SWFs alike - feel super safe when they know what you're doing. Camping within 24-32 meters of the hook can be a great idea and often wins games, it is strategically sound. I'm not saying you're not experiencing true camping/face camping (camping within about 16 meters or even 4-5 meters of the hook with bubba) but a killer "proxy camping" is actually just exacting a strategic price if you want to unhook your friend, proxy camping isn't real.
Tunnelling works at all ranks because which surv you go after is about an analysis:
Do I know where the survivor is?
Do I know no one has DS?
Do I know that I was stealthed so the person doesn't have BT? Is one injrued and the other healthy? If the running surv does have BT, can I force a vault into a grab (if no DS)? etc. Tunnelling as in making BAD target selections, does get you de-ranked, because you get DSed or hit BT or otherwise waste your time.
But the answer is that there is nodisincentive to proxy camp (camping at 16+ meters away), because the devs think it's often a GOOD strategy to watch the hook from a distance while doing other things, and as a red-rank-every-season killer, they're right. Being closer than about 16 meters, is a bad idea. Tunnelling, as defined by survivors (going after the same person twice in a row, possibly 3 times in a row) is a choice that is sometimes mandatory because the sooner you get from 4 survs to 3, the sooner you can relax.
If you think of it, killers who want to be rank 1 have a lot of objectives. They have to hook you but they ALSO have to apply enough pressure and get enough breathing room to injure you lots, chase you a long time, and keep you from doing gens too quick/opening exit gates. So the objective of killing 1 surv and putting the others on 1-2 hooks AFTER that, can enable them to have more chases, dole out more hits, and to slow down gens (this is also why slugging works, slugging directly raises the gatekeeper score by slowing 2 people while you chase a third, and often results in complimentary hits into malicious/chase. When a killer is chasing you around a downed friend? They are raising their gatekeeper, chaser, and malicious emblems all at once)
So, in light of RANKING, slugging, "proxy camping" and tunnelling, are all actually incentivized by the emblem system, heavily, and by design.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1300672#Comment_1300672
That will fix many complains about the map reworks. Hell i even got blood lodge without a single pallet in the middle a few times it's crazy.
This is confirmation bias. You're looking for it, and think it's new, because you know changes were made, but the only change to number of pallets was on one Crotus Prenn map (disturbed Ward). Every other map's pallet spawning is still the same. The specific configuration you're mentioning - blood lodge with 0 pallets in the middle- happens when the maximum number of outlying jungle gyms and low loops happens. There is a reverse version where the middle has 2-4 almost directly adjacent pallets, which we also see on coal tower just outside sometimes.
This is not a result of the recent patch, it's, and someone from dev might correct me if I'm wrong, it's because the new spawning logic system hasnt' been applied to old maps like blood lodge, allowing these outlier situations to happen.
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@FlamingkittyUmad said:
Shelter woods and both swamp maps are objectively the easiest map for almost any killer. Shelter Woods has a huge deadzone in the middle, almost no jungle gyms/ pallets, and what few jungle gyms there are, are way too far apart, not to mention the huge sight lines and with so few windows (3 windows on the map max) and only one place to fall from (into the basement) both Lithe and Balanced landing useless. the only way for survivor to win on this map is if they genrush, and only experienced and coordinated survivors are going to pull that off
They actually are looking at ALL maps. We now know they were working on a (new) licensed map + licensed killer. They explicitly said that older maps (like shelter woods) need their spawning logic improved to the new system, which yes, reduces dead zones. They only have so much time and the design team has to both pick new designs AND work with the graphics team to make them look good. Art takes time, and so does testing new spawning logic. All the changes they made so far have made maps fairer. When they make a change that makes maps LESS fair, people will tell them, and hopefully they'll fix it.
But they're also basing their priorities on maps that are strongly biased one way or the other.
It also might be harder to rework Hawkins, for example in the form of new art assets, due to ongoing licensing consults. Unsure, depends on what their licensing deal looked like.
This is likely definitely true for The Game, which in many ways contains features replicating the gideon meat plant and SAW deathtraps.
Lerys and Dead Dawg, as much as people might not like to admit it, are pretty fair maps. The saloon ISN'T a god loop and it's just new so people overestimate it. Lerys is very fair EXCEPT for a specific god loop they said they're gonna fix soon.
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I expect them to announce the new matchmaking system, we know there'll be a new killer and a new survivor, so 6 new perks. I expect them to use those perks to expand the design space, to give more alternatives, we might get one or two meta perks out of it. I'd also expect more map rework and perk rework announcements, since they bundled some with the patch last time
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@JPLongstreet said:
The one situation involving slugging that drives me bonkers is our team failed so bad we all are all down, no gens done, no unbreakables, and no hooks are made. The killer just stops and stands still for the 4-7 min or so as we all slowly bleedout.
That scenario, while a bit rare, makes me wish for that quicker bleedout mechanic mentioned from time to time. Doesn't happen often enough to justify UB or the other slug perks, but always leaves a bad taste when it occurs. No doubt it makes me slug less when killing.
Well, I mean, 4 is the maximum number of minutes the killer could stand still in that situation, since the first slug would be at 4 minus some number of seconds, and the last person would be at exactly 4.
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The problem is basically this:
Devs are currently moving in the direction of making things a bit fairer for killers, encouraging people to play killer, balancing killers vs. SWF and so on.
This means if you take away killer options in some way, you have to buff killers to compensate. For example if "slugging" can no longer be done, it's going to mean something.
If slugs can bleed out on their own if their timer goes below the 2 minute mark, does that mean the killer gets sacrifice points for them? If yes, they won't care about slugging you, if no, this is yet another nerf to killer ranking up and also means killer has to juggle one more thing (what if someone is at 2.5 minutes on their slug timer, but they have DS - does the killer now have to either get DSed OR risk losing points to a DC? How do we resolve this situation?
This is just one example of one proposed solution.
TL;DR: If you remove killer options, you have to buff the options they DO have left, and you don't want that. If the devs made it so survs couldn't be slugged, can't be tunneled, can't be proxy camped, killers would all have to be 125% speed to compensate for the huge loss of pressure moves. (this obviously wouldn't be the ACTUAL solution but its an example of the magnitude of buff you'd need)
Fortunately, the devs have said that instead of camping itself being punished, they want to open more space for other tactics to work just as well/disincentives to camp in the form of more gameplay options.
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Devs have confirmed multiple times that NOTHING was changed on Ormond, so the "pallet free dead zones on Ormond" thing is a myth. In fact, other than one map (Crotus Prenn Disturbed Ward) where they removed 2 pallets so the central building has 2 instead of 4 each game... they didn't change any pallets either. They literally only changed god loops and people are seeing changes that don't exist. These map spawns were always possible, you're just thinking they're something new every time the game rolls a bad config for survs, but forgetting it when it rolls a good one for survs. If you can show an example of a "pallet free dead zone" on a map we know had pallet spawning logic changed, I might agree, but most maps didn't have pallet or jungle gym changes, just infinite ones.
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@Schmierbach said:
Addons:
1. Purple Windstorm
2. Silent Bell/Non Directional Bell
Perks
Thanataphobia
Sloppy Butcher
Nurses Calling
Thrilling Tremors/BBQChili
Strategy is hit and run to keep survivors guessing, always knowing where they are to start chases quickly and making healing as hard as possible to keep everyone injured. Pick them off 1 by 1. It's an acquired taste and hard to pull off on some maps but fun nonetheless.
This one, but I've had a lot of mileage out of Nurses, BBQ, Sloppy, Pop. You want pop because you'll frequently be ambushing people next to running generators and windstorm lets you reach them fairly easily in between hit and run attacks.
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The queue reduces by one tier for every 24 hours /without dcing/ after the prior penalty is served. The 5 minute ban becomes 5 mins, 5 mins, 15 mins, etc etc it can get very high if you keep decing without waiting.
So if you haven't dced since then, you're back to normal.
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Yeah. Some loops also become nearly infinite if you don't break the pallet. Also SWF will communicate where good pallets are or even pre-drop pallets to create stronger loops. Now on some maps, there are enough pallets that if you run from one to the next, all gens will be done before the killer has broken them all, so it isn't always optimal to break them.
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The devs have acknowledged the emblem system is broken. It's best to ignore it completely, as they plan to get rid of it soon. in large part because of this very problem + DCing survivors and the hatch and such making it very hard for killers to rank up.
It's broken, devs say so, ignore it, it'll be gone within a few updates.
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Best case you trade. Most common case you fail to even unhook. Rarely you'll unhook and both end up on the ground (in which case LF can't pick up the person who just got off the hook, because DS might be in play)
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I've got 8 second wait times right now and have for months at rank 1. I'd be fine with even a 5 or 10 minute wait per match, if that match then lasts longer and is fairer. But truth be told I doubt it. People have said this before... I'd say in 6 weeks I'll still be getting 8 second wait times.
Edit: This is proveable. Right now DBD has an average of 44,000 concurrent players on steam and similar on other platforms, when this patch comes out I'll check how many concurrent players we have for say a few weeks after + observe my wait times (I play 2-3 hours a day) and give a report by editing this post, and if I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong.
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The fact is that DS needs to deactivate if a survivor: works on a totem, works on a gem, heals someone (other than themselves), hides in a locker, or stuns the killer my any other means (pallet, flashlight, etc). DS is so you can get back on your feet and not just be tunnelled off the hook, not so you can be a ticking time bomb and force the killer to set a 60 second stopwatch on every unhook. Devs have commented their dissatisfaction with the locker interaction and with survs using DS as a type of invulnerability, so they know this and are waiting until they make other more pressing fixes (god loops) before changing it. Be patient.
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At red ranks so for the last few weeks since I've been rank 4-1, it's been 8 seconds at the longest.
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Yesterday I watched a streamer I like play against a fairly sweaty rank 1 SWF. He took them down and they had 4 gens done and were about to finish 5 when he knocks one down, near the hatch. He's about to hang the person when the last guy runs in front of him. He chases, misses a hit, the guy kneels down for just a second and is holding a medkit. So the streamer's like "oh he used Styptic I'm gonna wait 10 seconds to hit him". Streamer waits - on second 9, the survivor teabags once and DCs, thinking their friend would have crawled to the hatch by now.
Fortunately the streamer made it, but this DC /was/ the difference between pipping up, and merely black pipping because of course he didn't get hook credit for the DCed guy.
I also saw that same streamer just 4 games before that, both surviving members of an SWF were hiding at opposite ends of the map, he saw scratches, went and hunted one, couldn't catch them, turned around, saw the hatch by accident. The second he saw it, the other SWF member was running to it, so killer went and stood on it, boom, the other person DCed. it was clear their plan was "lets bait the killer to one side of the map, DC, and you run for hatch" but they mis-timed it.
Survivors treat DCs as "I have a special ability I can use once every day and a half or so, where I get out of one situation"
Things I see this used for daily, bearing in mind I am rank 1 on killer and surv (I hate when my teammates do it, believe me):
DCing to "give hatch", especially in coordinated SWF.
DCing to prevent a use of bbq, when you're on your death hook.
DCing if its late game and you're next to an almost done gen, to prevent Pop.
DCing out of spite when downed early.
DCing - and this was amazing - to prevent Oni from hitting you and getting blood.
DCing to prevent use of obsession perks, including someone who DCed because I was "farming save the best for last" off him (starting chases to get tokens then leaving him alone for a sec, as wraith).
DCing when you miss your DS
DCing when you jump in a locker to bluff DS and I call your bluff successfully "The Ds for when you have no DS"
I should make a list that's more exhaustive, but all of these are things I've faced since DC penalties came in. Happens MORe at red ranks, not less, often by people who know they aren't pipping or know they're about to die and would rather deny you an advantage.
I don't know how to solve this, I admit it.
Perhaps SWF who DC don't open the hatch instantly (that's another thing, if you hang someone on a hook it takes about 10ish seconds for them to fully get to death, giving you time to block for example a nearby hatch, but the hatch opens the same microsecond you DC, so its faster if they're on comms and their teammate says "I'm on hatch")
Perhaps make it so that if someone DCs you get a free immediate stack/use of all your "when you hook someone" perks as compensation alongside the quitter bloodpoints.
I'd suggest changes for the emblem system, but they're deleting the concept of ranks soon.
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@ad19970 said:
If the survivor is being chased around the part where the pallet is, can't the survivor still run the killer around that window three times, assuming it's a killer that doesn't have a power to help counter looping? Because the killer running around the window and through the door should still allow the survivor to get enough distance to make the window another time.
Still, looks better than it was before, happy we are actually getting changes to these ridiculous loops in the next patch.
If I'm the killer I'm going to stand in the new doorway and from there I can land a lunge on EITHER side, so they'll have to go to the pallet and drop it after 1-2 vaults. Same as how you juggle people on badham short fence.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1191069#Comment_1191069
You're right on that, the word still gets thrown a lot even though infinites have been dead for a very long time.
Probably because it's much easier to have everyone agree with "Get rid of an infinite" than "This map has a piece that's good for survivors, DELETE IT".
It's worth noting there are some loops, on indoor maps and on Rotten Fields, which for some killers are "infinite with the pallet down" meaning an optimal player can loop endlessly even vs. bloodlust 3 by using pallet vaults, some of these being un mind gameable, so you do need to stop the chase to break the pallet even if you play the loop perfectly (because they often incorporate slats/holes which allow your light or body to be seen making mind games impossible)
Also, side note: there are loops which take so long to resolve for even an average player (2.5-3 minutes) that if you chase someone through one of these, you are losing the game, everyone would acknowledge you are losing the game, and whole teams run to them.
Any loop good enough that whole teams run to it immediately, that their every route, every movement, every choice is designed around "if I just get to the ironworks god loop we win", then that's for all intents and purposes infinite. I don't like the wrong term being used, but there are a few infinite looping situations, too, still in the game. (there is one route on hawkins or the game which is de facto infinite but only spawns rarely)
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People get a strange idea, perhaps from other platforms like Twitter, that if they mass-report someone, the devs won't look at the content of the reports but only at the sheer number of them.
I frequently see SWFs in post game chat all say they're reporting a killer, or a killer claim he's reporting for things like "hacking" when really he just doesn't understand how Lithe works yet.
Ignore it, feel comforted and grateful that the devs review the contents of reports, not just the number of bad reports.
Then shudder a little when you think about how many bad useless reports they get each day from salty people.
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The emblem system is broken for killers. Devs have acknowledged this. Ranking up as killer is very difficult. For example:
Grabbing someone penalizes you because you don't hit them through 2 injury states.
If someone wriggles off your shoulder you lose points that cannot be regained in any way.
If you injure someone, but survivors heal those injuries AT ALL, you lose the points you got for injuring them.
All a survivor needs to do to "win" a chase is be out of sight for 5 seconds. Basically if you stop to break a pallet, a chase segment may be considered 'won' by the survivor depending on how easily they get out of sight.
You need to hook survivors at least 9 times and hook every surv once in a match, so if a survivor hides all game, you are negatively effected by something pretty much outside your control (some maps are big enough, and spine chill exists, and if you spend all game hunting that survivor it isn't a good tactical choice).
If a survivor dies on first hook you can virtually guarantee you won't get a good devout emblem, and DCs are even worse because you get 0 hook actions.
Conversely, survivors can do a few specific things (do like 2.5 generators,get chased for 60 seconds, get 1-2 safe hook rescues or protection hits, heal anyone who gets injured) and they will pip even if they die but good luck pipping with a 3k unless you 3-hooked all 3 people.
The system doesn't account for a bunch of emergent player behaviors, basically, and the devs know this and have acknowledged it. They're getting rid of it. Rank is meaningless and you should ignore it because the devs and the matchmaking system ignore it. Soon a system which doesn't show pips or ranks will be implemented and matchmaking will, ideally, improve a bit.
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There are mechanical aspects to slugging and you have to look at the metagame.
Others have made excellent points. I'm going to make just a few metagame points and a few mechanical ones.
First we'll ignore 4 solos, or 2 separate SWFs. Both of those situations are easy for a skilled killer to handle unless its a very bad map or they bring 4 toolboxes despite not being a 4 person SWF.
Metagame:
In a 3-person or 4-person SWF situation you either work on one gen until its done (and if the killer comes, he chases one of you while the other 2-3 people get back on the gen)
Or you all split up and work 4 gens.
In situation 1, you down one person, then down another, and another. Taking time to hook lets the other 2-3 people work on the gen OR unhook the person immediately. If you have someone on the ground recovering and you down 3 people, you've basically won the game.
Chase someone, 3 gens are being worked, in all different sides of the map. Drop them. If you hook them thats 10-12 seconds across 3 gens, maybe longer because the meta is to NOT rescue until like 20-30 seconds of a hook state are gone. You run for the rescue after you finish your gen, but if you leave them slugged, someone is gonna get off a gen and come help. That help takes longer than just unhooking someone, and you're chasing a third person while it's happening. And because the team knows if that second person goes down, they lose too much momentum, they have to go help RIGHT AWAY or else the risk is 2 people on hooks and then 0 on gens.
A smart intelligent team is hampered MORE because they know how their situation COULD get.
Metagame strategies differ only slightly, and slugging works because it enables you to, within 20 seconds of dropping someone, be ON a second person, perhaps even intercepting the person coming for them. Slugging can allow you to force 4 people off the gens if you do it right.
This is an important point. The key is: you should ALWAYS be trying to intercept the person going for a hook, or for a slugging pickup. You should never give survivors an easy trade. They should lose 1 health state minimum to get someone up from being slugged.
Also many abilities don't activate off slugging (no borrowed time, no DS, no WGLF, no Kindred)
Lastly, honestly, unless the person has help or unbreakable or something, if you slug someone 8 times they just bleed out on the ground and die before someone can help them so theres a VERY soft death timer there.
Remember, people complain about slugging because, like many other tactics, it is a way of taking control of tempo and momentum. You use it to say "no, you can't play the game you're used to, you have to play MY game which is that I ran this person into the corner of the map and left them there, and if you come for them I'm gonna see your scratches and herd you away from them and if I injure you, you'll end up trading yourself for them, so maybe you need to send 2 people" unlike hook camping where DS/trading/borrowed might be engaged, its a very real possibility you end up with 2 slugs then hook them both then intercept one of THEIR rescuers and have a relaxing chase while the fourth person rescues the other hooked person. And once you down that person, you don't have to hook.
Remember that your goal is to sacrifice them, sure, but mindlessly hooking is as dumb as any other mindless activity. Watch people who're good at the game and playing at rank 1. They don't like slugging, because mostly they're good players and its less fun AND less blood points AND less emblems, but when momentum goes against you you've gotta go "naw, I'm going to leave this guy on the ground".
Example situations you may not be slugging in, but might want to consider it:
-Thrilling Tremors is 10 seconds from cooldown. You just dropped someone, and you see a SECOND someone. If that someone is injured, I'd leave the first person, chase the second. This raises the chances you'll block ALL the gens or narrow it down (as someone comes to rescue the slug).
-You have a Pop ready. Leave the slug and come back if you can, but if you go pop a gen and see ANOTHEr uninjured person, chase them, and let the fourth and final person rescue a hook AND grab a downed person.
-There are 3 people around and you believe you can reasonably down a second one in the next 20-30 seconds based on position, injured status, which killer you are, etc.
-You downed someone in an inconvenient area with no generators in it
-Pressure on you is high and you need the breathing room of one chase + 1 slug.
-You want to lure a specific person out because you can mori them or because you need to hook your obsession for a perk or something
Million reasons. Remember the evaluation you make is not "why don't I put him on a hook its gonna take so long to get another person down"
Its STARTING A CHASE which is the thing that keeps people off gens ,and you can start a chase within 5-10 seconds after you drop someone.
If I know where a second person is, especially if they're a weak link or in a bad position, I will almost always leave the first slug on the ground. Unless I need vision or Pop or Thrilling - though I routinely pick people up for thrilling then throw them back on the ground to go chase someone.
I'm the player who, if you come up to try to flashlight blind me, I'll more often than not throw the guy on the ground and come after you.
Totems, pig hats, Hex Ruin, they're all the same kind of creature: make survivors do more work. Slugging is the same. Its giving survivors a secondary objective that takes more than trivial devotion and which puts them in weird out of the way places at times, and also it grants you 10 seconds. If you could subtract 20 seconds from 3 people's generator repairs in exchange for "when you would down someone, you merely injure them instead", you actually might often make that trade.
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At the very beginning of the game it CAN be simply because the game starts you all clumped up. In a real game, a team of survivors who plays correctly should be impossible to 4-slug.
The key thing is, a lot of things people complain about punish 'greedy' strats. All staying in one place to complete generators quick to negate things like thrilling tremors/pop, and to be able to have someone hop right back on any generator as the other person is chased? This is a greedy strat with great rewards. If all 4 survivors are spread out, the killer shouldn't be able to drop a second person before the first slug he left alone is already back up. If the killer got all 4 of you, I bet someone ran in to do some crazy save attempt, or people otherwise got greedy.
Most survivor "this isn't fun" complaints, are actually complaints against tactics which punish specific types of greed.
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The hatch will still use it up. If you have the addon which keeps the key from being used up, that will still work
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You think this is bad? An insidious bubba with no hex perks who stands in the corner and refuses to hit anyone can, mathematically, force anyone who is lower than purple to depip, provided you instasaw and flawlessly camp anyone who comes near you. Like, pure math, zero way to pip.
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Yeah if the team is using OoO + comms to get an unfair advantage, tunnelling the OoO user will often make them all come out of the woodwork and often results in 4ks
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A corollary: If you shame me for using NOED, but I beat you before you did 5 gens, that means you lost to someone with 3 perks.
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Survivors getting to keep their 2 addons only when they double pip, and getting to keep 1 if they pip, and killers same, might work fine for me. "Surviving" shouldn't be the measure, though. On the other hand a survivor has a much easier time getting 1 or 2 pips while killers can 4k and get Entity Displeased depending on how fast it was/if they 1-hooked.
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Hooks are placed 12, 14, or 16 meters apart depending on map and tiles. an addon can reduce this by 2 or increase it by 1. A killer who drops you at a random spot will on average be able to get you to a minimum of 3 and maximum of 6 distinct hooks depending on obstructions. This is by design.
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DS and its interaction with lockers + its interaction with borrowed time (fearless body blocking for not one but TWO hits since if I down you on the second one, you just stab me if picked up) seems unintended
Also, Adrenaline. I really think Adrenaline should work like other exhaustion perks and should encourage players to not be sprint bursting/dead harding when theres just one gen left. Survivors are in possession of more information about how "done" generators are, than killers are, and are in a fine position to control their use of Exhaustion until Adrenaline kicks in. Its a powerful once a game perk but it just works differently from other exhaustion perks and is, I think, the only place stacking of exhaustion perks is encouraged.
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The fact is that before this penalty, teams would actually strategically disconnect for something as simple as keeping the killer from getting pop/bbqchili, or to "give hatch" in an unintended exploitative way based on out of game communication. People would disconnect if they were going to be mori'd or if the killer even did a mori anywhere. They'd disconnect to prevent blood warden, they'd disconnect to prevent the killer from pipping, they'd disconnect to help their friends pip by not getting the -10 altruism for being hooked without being rescued, and so on.
The emergent gameplay of 0 dc penalties was for dcs to be used in degenerate ways. People STILL do all these things, but they do them a maximum of 1 time per day. And that's better than infinite uses. Having played at the highest level I can tell you rank 1-4 SWFs were the worst culprits, but I've seen green, purple, even yellow ranks dc to give hatch or deny a perk, and the dc penalties are just necessary. It became something people abused, and now we're here. So when you suffer a soft penalty for your occasional technical issue, realize that it is abuse by players that necessitates the system.
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A killer can close a hatch a /fraction/ of a second before a survivor can jump in, and will generally win hatch standoffs. If the killer manages to make it to the hatch before you do, despite having to juggle everything, and despite you and your teammate using out of game coordination to time the moment your friend stops struggling, the killer deserves to get the closure. If you see the killer near the hatch, or see him coming, and you don't think it'll open in time, then run to a gate because the instant the killer slams it you'll be able to start opening the gate no matter how many gens you had left. You might have to mindgame a little.
I think it is fair for the killer to win hatch standoffs if they manage to get to the hatch even in the face of out-of-game comms coordination, juggling and killing 4 survivors, and having to chase you there. Think about it, if the killer hits you from full health, you're probably gonna use that sprint burst to beat him to the hatch. If the killer gets stunned, you'll probably beat him to the hatch, the end game chase is ridiculously survivor-favored, so in the circumstance where in spite of that the killer manages to make it to the hatch simultaneously with you? I'm okay with the killer's hatch closure overriding.
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every 24 hrs without dcing it goes down one tier
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first 2 penalties are 5 min third is 15
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Its against the rules to quit for either reason but actually the dc penalty escalates. Did you do your mori quit before your key quit?