Slival
Slival
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The "you get less BP" argument also doesn't hold much water. I mean, let's compare a tryhard match to a facecamp match.
I main doctor and Demogorgon.
I facecamp with Bubba (sometimes Oni)
I use zero addons when facecamping.
I tend to use 6000 BP worth of addons when playing a serious game, minimum. Sometimes as much as 14k worth.
Normal game I usually won't have BBQ Chili because other combos are better.
Assuming the worst facecamp game, you'll get about 10k BP if all you do is chase the first guy, camp him to death, chase another guy, don't even hook him, the other 3 escape. BBQ Chili will make this 12.5k
Assuming the BEST non-facecamp game I will get 31-32k minus say 6000 for minimal addons, 25k-26k. So you're getting about half the bloodpoints you'd get in a sweaty tryhard game.
If things go well and you trade a few times, you get up to 3/5ths or even 3/4ths.
This equation will be different for everyone depending on skill level but even assuming the BEST case of using zero addons and still 4king a sweaty tryhard game with bbqchili, 64k but that match probably took 4x as long as a Facecamping game (because in facecamp games, gens and gates FLY by easily in 4-5 mins total but in sweaty games your goal is to exhaust/run them down/hook them 12 times so a sweaty game even for the best players in the world is minimum 8-10 mins)
So you're still playing twice as many games. 25k for just watching tv/listening to podcasts vs. 64k for sweating your butt off playing an addon-less 10 minute slugfest. Also, killer queues are so fast (instant during primetime) that you can get 2 matches off in the time it'd take to do 1 tryhard match. Sometimes people want to relax but still want to farm rifts or bloodpoints without doing afk wraith (which is against the rules).
I consistently get BP in facecamp matches comparable to my tryhard non-facecamp matches. If I'm trying hard, I don't usually run BBQ (nurses, thrilling, whispers are better on the meta killers sometimes). A typical facecamp will net 24k minimum, 30k if you employ the methods mentioned above or if you decide to secure 1 kill then play normally/hunt the rest (you also have more chance of more BP if you secure your first kill and even a better chance of a pip.)
So we actually have a few arguments:
a) the strategic. Sometimes trading 1 person's life for 2 gens is worth it. If everyone comes and rescues, trading one person's life for ONE gen is definitely worth it.
b) the grinding: lots of blood points are needed to level everyone and face camping is a brain dead but effective way to get ~25k bp per match, more than if you tried playing survivor.
c) The snowball: if 3 gens pop before I get my first down, and I'm playing a killer CAPABLE of securing a kill, I will generally do it, especially if I'm running a late game perk like NOED or playing a killer who can locate someone at the exit gates like trapper, demo, doctor.
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Well its not super boring for the killer if you put something on TV or a podcast. This is how I bloodpoint farm.
BBQ Chili, to make up for the loss of bloodpoints while farming, Spirit Fury, Enduring, NOED. Use SF and E to do the first chase so I can easily maneuver to get a down before more than 1-2 generators pop (chase people off as you go past them). Hook the first person, camp them to death with chainsaw revved, take down anyone who comes for a rescue. (I often bring instasaw since its only 1 uncommon and 1 common to get there, and lets you down even all 3 if they come). Once the first person is dead, you have the luxury of catching the next, and then trading. If someone comes, let them get the unhook, down the rescuer while the borrowed-timed second-hooked-person runs away, hook the third, now you're at 3 chili stacks.
Chase people NEAR the hook without allowing the unhook - ideally get people to tip nearby pallets so you can saw them to get Spirit Fury ready AND to make the area a deadzone for when NOED pops.
If the fourth person comes to rescue, let them but saw them and put them on the hook. This is 4 stacks and you're doubling bloodpoints. If the recently unhooked comes, don't let them unhook because DS unless its been 1 minute. If exit gates pop, then change it up, leave the hook and go hunting while proxy camping the hook. If you catch the fourth person, fine. If you don't, then take whoever you do catch and camp them to death. You play somewhat dynamically this way, but its still braindead easy and you'll average 30-32k bp with bbqchili if you actually hunt instead of facecamping.
You'll de-pip or black pip a lot, but rank 18s face rank 2s all the time, so pipping has no in-game advantage and will be gone soon anyway.
I keep stats and one game in 12, all 3 will dive the hook and die. One in four, you'll end up with 3k, 90 percent of the time you'll hit at least a 2k. If you only get one, they were super optimal and fast (If survivors are so fast that they are done all the gens before you find a second person to camp, then go open the gate yourself to put them on a 2 minute timer. This lessens their unbreakable emblem, prevents them just opening + farming chests or totems, and applies psychological pressure likely to induce a mistake allowing NOED capitalization). Choose a secondary objective if you don't think you can catch them: Camp your NOED so they can't cleanse it, many teams do this as a way of 'teabagging' the NOED user, and I have seen a team dive my noed totem and try to chain blind me rather than just leaving.
If you know where the hatch is, find it and camp it to deny the bonus bloodpoints/progress or possibly to catch the unwary. You can swap Insidious for end game plays in place of SF if you want since you're running instasaw, but I've found the SF/E combo to be quite good.
You can farm BP to level all your killers and survivors while playing anxiety free low impact gameplay. I wish hook grabs worked so I could do it with other killers, but the only ones who can really do this are trapped (slightly modded build), Leatherface, Huntress, and Clown (redhead finger + good aim)
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Not remotely. the amandas letter meme gamble build is super fun too (take last will and letter, down 2 people and hat them. pick a random box to block of the 2. let everyone else go.)
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@Moobz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1116357#Comment_1116357
Their is no way that these two things are helping game play. Adding DC Penalties has made the que Times for survivor at lest 5 to 7 mins, If i can go to the bathroom, go upstairs to my kitchen, make a sandwhich and come back in time to sit in the lobby for 3 more mins before getting in a game is not making this better, and this started directly after DC penalties started. Also then the killer should be working on bettering themselves as a player instead of complaining to devs that i cant find anyone so they make it super easy to find everyone. Part of this game is hiding from the killer and not getting seen. If the players can't play killer they need to go watch youtube and figure out what they are doing wrong. Why even better yourself when someone can just make it easy for you?
I don't know what game you've been playing, but if you watch any big time streamer, then the DC penalties have demonstrably made the game better. Hatch tech, gone. Chili Tech, gone. People rage quitting on first down forcing an immediate -1 or black pip at best? Gone. Well, radically reduced, some people are still doing it. If you want the queue times for survivor to be better, get survivors to stop dcing.
Think of it this way, if an epidemic of survivors using an exploit or hacking caused survivor queue times to go way up, you wouldn't blame the devs for punishing players for breaking the rules, you'd blame the players who did the stupid thing: exploiting, hacking. DCing is against the rules BUT the punishment isn't very harsh. your internet could kick you out of a match once a day, and you'd only suffer a 5 min penalty due to the cooldown. That's pretty generous. It does mean you can never rage quit a match, but you weren't doing that anyway, right?
The devs have statistics on the percentage of DCs happening and they did say they've seen a marked decine and the DC penalties are doing better.
As to your second point, I'd agree with you if survivors didn't have a ton of even more powerful location perks and items, if everyone gave up all location perks, that might be fair, then we'd just have locator killers like plague and doctor, and no aura reading perks.
But as to 'getting good', survivors need to get good instead of using DC as part of their strategy.
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The only people who can actually face camp are leatherface, oni, doctor (by shocking under the hook you can at least force 2+ people to come), and billy. Anyone else, you can just use 2+ people or a single uninjured person to guarantee an unhook by baiting the grab, having BT, having dead hard, etc. I see a lot of people saying "flashlight" but anyone who is trying to face camp will just look downward and be immune on that one. The killers I mentioned have ways to "secure" the hook against teams in the right circumstances, but the game has so many second chance perks, and trading is more powerful because of Decisive (if someone who is unhooked is quickly healed in a bush, they can trade and become forbidden candy laying on the ground for 60 seconds).
But, one important point people miss is some killers are designed to use bait/camp/proxy camp. Trapper, hag, Ghost Face, Pig, all of their playstyles even at the highest level of play often incorporate this.
This is why when you watch the best kiler players in the world, survivors often accuse them of 'camping' in post game chat, or video comments, when all they did was use the hook as bait (they're giant fishhooks, of course they're for putting bait on!) or check the hook when the entire team was at it. At the highest level of play you sometimes watch a hook and it can be the right move. For example if there are 3 people left and 1-2 gens left, you bet I'm gonna watch the hook because when the first guy comes for the free unhook, if I chase him? Then the last guy has to get off gens to do the unhook while I'm chasing guy #2. Camping until you have a good reason to chase, is valid and wise. Now FACE camping however you define it, isn't a thing. You can unhook from any direction now.
When designing and balancing killers, the idea that sometimes you might try to 'keep' someone on the hook, esp. long enough for them to go to second hook state for example, is part of the consideration the devs use. They reiterate this a fair bit.
If I'm chasing someone NEAR the hook, of course I won't let him unhook his friend - he better run me AWAY from the hook. And if I get run past someone who's 10 seconds from second hook state? I will make sure they go to second hook state.
When unhooking someone you need to be
a) stealthy or I'll stay near the hook. If 2-3 survivors are at the hook that's not camping, its a barbecue cookout.
b) prompt (or else I'll see they're 10 seconds from hook state 2, and camp them for 10 seconds), and
c) committed (this means maybe 2-3 people should go on the rescue run, not just 1 while the other 2 stay on gens)
Survivors don't want to have to adapt away from the meta they've gotten used to, and have to use a responsive style of play. Using hidden 'rules' about what tactics the killer is allowed to use can make the game easier and let you stick to one meta you've gotten used to (no one heals, stay on gens, don't worry we've all got 3 lives, etc), but that isn't how a good game is played. Expecting scrub thinking to dictate killer tactics is a recipe for degenerate play, not for people playing better. If I use tactic A, you need response B, and complaining on the forums until you get a nerf from the devs is never a valid in-game strategy.
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? DC penalties DID make the game better, for everyone. I don't think anyone argues that. Also, location perks are a direct counter to highly immersive dragging-on gameplay, often by coordinated teams choosing dark or huge maps to facilitate it. (And are going to be necessary given upcoming sabo changes) I don't deny that game balance would be a good idea, but the two things in the image in the OP are actually good changes in the right direction. An example of changes we don't really need would be breakable walls as a band aid for god loops, we should see all maps re-done and larger maps shrunk to balance the experience instead.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Level 1 Franklin makes no difference lol
Level 1 franklin's allows white warded items to be deleted from the game when their bearer is slapped and then killed.
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Didnt seem to be faster I will double check with videos stopwatches and hard numbers in a few hours
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Not currently represented in the ptb as far as I know. I will be running actual experiments vs. live play with a friends help this evening to see.
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This is normal and intended. It is fully possible to both stun the killer and go down. If in doubt about the timing, drop the pallet early. Window vaults have 3 states/types - slow and quiet (not sprinting, makes no noise) Medium (done without a run-up) and Fast (done with a run up/you hit the vault button while approaching the window)
Slow and medium vaults deliberately have very large hit boxes and you can be hit on either side of the window for a very long time during them. Only fast vaults - the type with a run up - quickly move your hit box to the opposite side of the window. Pallet vaults you're basically always getting a medium vault, hitbox wise, and also its slightly easier if the killer is thinking, to grab you out of a pallet vault.
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I sometimes pick a survivor to take down if they teabag or if they act unafraid of me (sticking to a gen even after I smack them once) and I tunnel them for a while.
I let dwights have hatch a lot.
I keep a mental tally of how likely it is I pipped/got a bunch of bloodpoints and if I win pretty hard I take my time and let them escape or open the door if I felt it was a nice match.
If I see someone has a white ward I do my best to franklins their item and guard it (I sometimes guess wrong but the effort they put in to get it back can be a hint. I always bring franklins)
Got a 4k off this the other day as an entire swf dive bombed me, a leatherface who was happy to let them escape but no the claudette needed her purple flashlight.
I turn off postgame chat and play with chill music blaring
I try weird builds and use weird addons. I am learning matchbook nurse right now. I did Impossible Skillcheck Doctor. I have taken to patrolling chests and making sure all the items stay on the map. Also instasaw spirit fury enduring leatherface or hillbilly then the first person I chase I LET them drop as many pallets as they want, emptying the map and instabreaking them and by the time i down them 3 gens are done sure but i hook them use chili and chase a couple people through the palletless map
Theres always fun if you make your own goals.
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The devs are not going to change the pip system workings. They are getting rid of rank so it would be wasted effort. See the post about matchmaking in the News forum for details
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They are about to get rid of the emblem system and do away with rank entirely as a player-visible concept. (See "Matchmaking changes" post in News subforum which is not just about matchmaking but discusses hiding rank)
They are not going to be changing pips or hotfixing the pip system. It would be energy wasted on a meaningless legacy system they have admitted is irrevocably flawed
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Counterpoint, if someone is hooked and is being camped, go do generators to make sure the killer loses chase points on top of getting few blood points.
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I'd personally love to hear from BHVR about this too. I end up reporting about 2 people a day. Some choice excerpts:
Racial slurs. Homophobic slurs. Transphobic slurs.
"your parents never loved you" "I bet they disowned you"
Instructions on how to "get to my next life where maybe I'll be a decent person".
People stalking my steam profile, seeing I was from Canada, and saying they were glad that 57 Canadians died in the recent Ukranian Airways disaster.
People stalking my steam profile and going back through my old names so they could threaten me with my IRL name (thankfully it wasn't my real name just a nickname, but they didn't know that)
People giving graphic descriptions of what they hope will happen to my pets and all those I love.
I report these in-game and submit screenshot reports for egregious ones (not for swear words, just for IRL threats to kill me, serious slurs, etc). So far I have seen a lot of people I've reported, still kicking around. In some cases I have gotten multiple threats weeks apart from the same people and sometimes I'm just wanting to get to the next game, so I didn't used to always report them.
But for now, I do, and I will.
I'm also putting together a catalog of the worst ones, with date stamps, with the names redacted, so I'll have a kind of log. I play a LOT so I do see more than most people, but... it'd be a lot more encouraging and I'd feel a lot more certain that it's right to report the egregious ones, if someone official said yes things are done. I don't need specific feedback on cases, just any reassurance, say that even one person in the last 6 months has been banned for things they said, or, indeed, ever.
That's another problem: people in post game chat tell me that BHVR doesn't care, and I bet lots of people believe that and don't report anything, so firm word the other way would be helpful.
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I feel you hit the nail on the head a bit when you said "being insulted after". If everyone was conciliatory when they absolutely wrecked you, or they acknowledged that this game has a lot of luck in it - like when you stumble upon people, where the gens and hatch and gates and even pallets spawn - if people were realistic instead of needing to tea bag verbally as well as in game, that would change the tone of the game.
We're all here to play a match. This is an asymmetrical game, but the us-vs-them mentality should end at the game board. It shouldn't be acceptable to say something in messages that you couldn't get away with saying at the local board game shop if someone beat you - or lost to you- at a tabletop, card, or board game.
If you'd be shunned and possibly ejected from the room for saying something in mixed company in REAL life, you shouldn't be able to get away with saying it to someone in post-game chat without consequences. Poor sportsmanship sucks the fun out of things. In chess you shake hands and say good game after and you go onward, you don't say "no, bad game" or "baby killer ez" without getting a lot of dirty looks and maybe not being invited to play again.
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I'm playing on PC.
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You know, I only have one real complaint about the hatch.
Survive with friends groups who strategically mass disconnect after the first down/while losing. They hold out on the hook until their friend says in the voice call "okay I'm on the hatch" then they quit/leave game and their friend goes through the hatch.
Often they will gloat in post game chat about how it was "worth the dc" for their friend with the best item to make it out of the hatch.
I often slug the second last person so I can hunt the last person, to counter this. If a group did not have voice chat outside of game, they would struggle on the hook to give the last person time to find the hatch, but instead I have to contend with people who automagically know exactly when to give up on the hook - because their friend found the hatch or made it to it. And sometimes slugging the second last person doesn't work - the person will dc which counts as a death and the hatch opens. I've had to start recording my games so I can report this kind of strategic and unsportsmanlike DC, and its literally my only problem with the end game collapse - played collusion outside of game to which there is no counterplay because it is strategically based around yanking your internet cord to let your buddy out.