End_of_Slayer
End_of_Slayer
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@Smoe said:
Assuming we're still getting lore at all, considering how alot of people don't really engage with the lore past the base lore because it was locked behind archive challenges, this makes it easier to do so now to do so with the tome lore as well.
That’s a good point. Hopefully this easier version might get more people to interact with the lore cause it’s really interesting. If we can’t unlock lore anymore, I may be disappointed but at least the lore will still be there to read.
I’d also be surprised if they straight up stopped giving us lore when there’s characters who’ve been in the game for years and haven’t gotten a tome story like Jeff, Adam, Felix and Élodie. They’ve also gone out of their way to make sure people have access to all the previous lore the game had to offer, so I don’t see why they’d stop
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@Rulebreaker said:
Well, that's disappointing news. Did they say why the archives are going away?
Basically to just streamline it and make everything smoother. Seems like they’re moving away from the archive challenge system in favor of quests in a similar vein to Fortnite and other games like it.
So the archives will be leaving and you’ll have the rift be in one area and to access the lore and tomes in a different part. They mainly just got rid of the archives tab and are recalling it the Rift Pass
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@moputopia said:
I honestly didn't even know there was a game manual until watching the video recently. I check the DbD wikia when I need to read up on status effects or something similar haha.
I doubt new players are going to scroll through the plain text to understand the game better, especially when so many of the terms used barely mean anything to you when you start playing. Including videos/images and tips would be a great improvement.
I really agreed with Mintskull's ideas to make the tutorial longer and more thorough, and include more aspects of the game (the Trapper's power example he gave was really good in my opinion). There are also several really important game features missing, for example items and how to use them, sabotaging, 8-kick limit etc, that in my opinion would be better learned during the tutorial.
In the comment section of the video someone had an idea of a glossary that get updated with new perks and characters you encounter - this way the horror element of not knowing what you're up against can remain, but players also get to gradually learn and read over perks and killer powers.
I like that final comment a lot, reminds me a lot of HUNT: Showdown where more is revealed in the monsters glossary the more enemies/bosses you end up killing. The more often you face a killer, the more tips can be unlocked for that killer so you can learn how to play against them without knowing what you’re going into at first. I think that’ll be such an amazing change and having a little pop up in the main menu saying something like
“A vague recollection washes over you, something has unlocked within your subconscious, revealing more information than before.”
And then the game can direct the player to the manual so they can see the killer they just faced and the perks. I think that idea actually is such a genius way to go about it because you unlock more entries and how to face the horrors of the fog the more times you face that specific killer and perk.
Reworking the tutorial, having videos to show exactly what is being talked about (like in Helldivers 2) and adding new glossary sections after playing against a certain character (like in HUNT: Showdown) will be an amazing way to teacher newer players everything going on and what’s been added since the old tutorials were made years ago. It’s a good way of giving those players a better way of understanding certain killer powers (such as Xeno where the turrets are placed too close to the tunnels).
This is something I’d gladly see come into the game and be willing to test to see how it works, as BHVR are updating older parts of the game, the manual and tutorials would be a good place to go next. It’s either those, or the lobby menu (which I also wouldn’t mind getting updated next)
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@edgargarciabe660 said:
Not being able to not rotate Xeno has been in the game since his ptb, although it's weird because you can rotate him in the shop, but not in the lobby so most probably is a bug. As for the hooks, that's a feature for some reason specified in the patch notes. Don't know why they would do such an inconsistency no other killer has.
I didn’t know that was a thing in the ptb, and I was confused cause you can rotate them in the store but not the lobby. I was wondering if it was like Sadako’s lobby animation for her crawling out the wall and shambling forward.
And yeah, the hook thing is weird to include since Xeno’s the first killer to have that since huntress or Doctor I believe. So it’s strange but I don’t mind it
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452945#Comment_3452945
Because the perk only just got updated. Just like people will be trying Gabriel's perks because they just got released. People like to try new things to see if they're worth incorporating into builds, or simply just to try them out. Deja Vu was 5% before and barely anyone used it. Now it's 6%, which isn't much better. People will try it out and most will probably drop it like they did before.
Yeah and I get that, but with how fast the gens have been going with it usually being in all of the games I played, I can’t help but feel there’s a slight correlation to it.
So I don’t know, we’ll see what happens. Just felt really frustrating earlier
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452904#Comment_3452904
It's not suddenly making your games less than 5 minutes.
You’re right, but it’s definitely a factor with it. Cause my games have been going really quick since this new update
And each game at least one person brought Deja Vu
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@brokedownpalace said:
Deja Vu is 6%.
Yes, and it stacks. 6% is still 6% faster to work on gens with multiple people also using that perk along with prove Thyself to counter the negative stat of working on gens together
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@Green_Sliche said:
Killer is becoming more and more stressful and punishing experience. Unless you get inexperienced survivors, there's little to no room for mistake. With recent nerf of almost all regression perks, you must resort to all sorts of pressure, be it tunneling or proxy camping if you want to win somehow.
Survivor experience is more forgiving, though you are at the mercy of luck - your team mates can be either decent bunch or monkeys who tap on keyboard.
SWFs are fine as always. No changes there.
Full agree. I feel like I need to resort to tunneling more in order to take a slight breather in my matches. But even then the gens still go by pretty quickly so I get even more stressed out from it. I dunno, I still have fun with the game, but I feel like I need to play survivor more to not get as frustrated or stressed out
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@Kirarozu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424710#Comment_3424710
yes... please add this so killers waste time searching for a boon lmao. You're better off just chasing survivors and hoping you come across it.
They don’t have to waste time searching for a boon, it’s just an indicator to tell the killer it’s in the trial so they should be conscious about it. It’s the same as having the hex indicator for survivor, they don’t need to search for the hex depending on what it is. It’s just a little nod to say “hey, this is here.”
And like I said, most times I find a boon, I do not hear it get put up because the noise indicator just doesn’t play for some reason. Hoping to come across something I should know is one thing, coming across it and not being told it was put up is another thing entirely.
Usually when I find a boon, I’m like “oh hey!” But whenever I hear a boon and I don’t remember hearing the loud notification I get a bit pissed cause that’s valuable information I should know cause it reveals 4 potential perks and is one of the 16 perks I have to keep track of in a match
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@shofarian_starfall said:
I have, from what I can tell, heard a very loud notifying sound upon the placement of a Boon Totem every game without fail.
I’ve had more games than I can count on my hands and feet where I never heard the boom effect go off.
It just really sucks to cause you’re minding your own business with the match, then you reach a part of the map you didn’t go to yet and oh! A boon’s there! But you never even heard it get put down. The maps I’ve recognized this the most on was RCPD. But it’s happened on plenty others too.
Plus, it’s just an overall benefit that doesn’t add any real harm by adding it. Just put a little indicator like survivors have to just tell the killer there’s a boon in play. Then they have the option of searching for it or leaving it up. It also helps out hard of hearing players who may not be able to know a boon even gets put down in the first place
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3397517#Comment_3397517
This is why screenshots are important. To be honest i’m not even sure what you just said.
I just realized that you’re not the OP so now i have to figure out what you mean with your specific situation.
so you’re saying you have kamaitachi’s gap closer on your ironside. And you have no mastered biolinks on ironside? And your kamaitachi is level 4 everything? Or is only gap closer level 4? Can you still use gap closer on kamaitachi?
what level is your ironside shot tracker? For that matter what is your magnetic link and rapid fire also? Can you swap gap closer, magnetic link, or rapid fire with gap closer? What about the other 2 kamaitachi links - frenzy and quick strike? Are you going to the right menu? There is the loadout menu and the shop for prosarmogi. You have to be in the right one.
it’s definitely possible it’s a bug, but a ton of posts are people complaining because they don’t understand how the menu system or game mechanics work.
- see all the posts about delete all in base mode
- see the forbidden tombs section
- see the complaints about kill boxes
- see the complaints about currency being hard to earn.
there are definitely bugs, but if I don’t have a video or photo then I’m only able to interpret from what has been said. Replays, death counters, and servers have been buggy so it’s possible the shop menus and loadout menus are as well.
what was said by the op initially makes it sound like the player hasn’t earned the ability to swap the perk yet. 🤷🏻♂️
screenshot it or post a video. Makes it a lot easier to see what’s going on. and that’s true for devs as well. Plus this whole post isn’t even in the “bugs” section. It’s In the “general discussion” section. Makes it seem even more likely a player is newer and unfamiliar with the menus.
I am definitely not new, I have over 20 hours in the game so far and I’m having a blast. I want to be able to have more than one bio link on my Ironside suit but I’m unable to have more than one. Here are screenshots to show I have mastered every Ironside bio link, what bio links I have mastered, and show that Kamaitachi has three bio links whereas I don’t for Ironside
Edit: I also noticed the bio links are automatically equipped or they were for Kamaitachi, but they weren’t auto equipped for Ironside. That’s the issue, I am unable to have 3 bio links on Ironside
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@kisfenkin said:
I believe this problem stems from having upgraded your character in coop. Piece of advice, ONLY UPGRADE IN SOLO MODE!
I upgraded my ranged suit in coop. From that moment forward the melee upgrade tier 1 was attached to it and unchangable until I earned both masteries. Now I have master fire rate, master magnetic, and master melee lunge, but I can only equip one thing when playing coop and I have to switch the ranged suit biolink out from the melee biolink every single coop raid.
The weapons also suffer from the leveling in coop issue. I leveled up my Volt Lancer in order to get the extra bullet and it didn't give it to me. After a while I bought another weapon, and now I can force it to remember I bought the upgrade by switching my loadout every single coop raid.
That's right, the game can't remember for longer than a few minutes that I have those upgrades or even what things I had equipped.
I did upgrade in coop I think but I don’t exactly remember. I do have all the bio links mastered and I can swap them out, it just lets me only equip one at a time instead of all three like my friend. And changed to the melee suit still had the same issue where I could only have one equipped, but that may be because I didn’t purchase the other bio links for it?
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/371799/can-t-use-more-than-one-biolink
"can be swapped onto another suit's activated mastered slot" "you must master your current perk to be able to swap it"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9RMQE24GM0LP/483257b8-5ab8-4c48-8f53-6202e6593932.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y27WUOZNUL3P/6c2813ec-a1f1-4591-8870-5ea86c24726a.png
which means you have to master both.
I’ve mastered every single bio link on the ranged suit, but I can only have one equipped at a time
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Update: The cutscene moved on from the original frame, after 20+ tries. But it then it still ended up freezing on a different frame (didn’t get the screenshot cause my friends were waiting to play a game with me). It’s right after he’s looking at the devices on the desk. So the cutscene is just bugged and freezes at random points
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318587#Comment_3318587
It's pointing out a double standard. You think that Myers stalking isn't interacting and that's bad, but gens are literally done through noninteraction. But the Myers example is bad?
And is a game mechanic that LITERALLY requires you to find Survivors NOT interacting? This isn't like the chain hunt filling up all by itself.
Except Chain Hunt filling up forces the survivors to interact with the killer. And yes, doing gens means you don’t interact with the killer, but so is hiding. Which is what the game was supposed to be before everyone made it about chasing.
All I’m asking for is to make tombstone be able to either be harder to get or make it so it has some kind of stipulation before he can kill you like PH or Sadako. Cause with the way it is right now, all he has to do is just get into a chase with you and pop tier 3 and you die. It’s not fun for either side
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318570#Comment_3318570
He has to find a survivor and activate an ability that requires their presence. That's interacting.
What YOU want is to be able to drop pallets, vault windows, and other things because you are bored.
It is more interactive than Survivors, who literally do not interact with killers by doing their primary objective of working on generators. Imagine if we made some weird rule that generators cannot pop unless a Killer is swinging at you within terror radius to get the last 1%.
Except I never said I was bored or want to be chased? I want him to interact with me, not stare at me from 40 meters away and gain stalk as I can barely see him. So many killers interact with survivors, why is it that his best add on makes it so he doesn’t need to interact with people?
I’m not playing a game as Michael. I’m watching survivors do their objective until I hit tier 2 then I watch them run away. Please explain to me on how that’s interacting with them. Especially when you have killers like Trapper, Billy, Hag, Huntress, Doc, Freddy, Pig, Plague, Oni, Trickster, Nemesis, Cenobite, Artist, Sadako, Dredge, Wesker and Knight.
And that final point you made is a lose lose situation if I answer it. It’s a trap to lure me into a scenario in which you’ll gain the upper hand. We aren’t talking about survivors doing gens, we’re talking how Tombstone is something where Michael doesn’t have to interact with the survivor in any meaningful way in order to kill the survivor
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318556#Comment_3318556
Again, not free. He has to do an enormous amount of stalking. Which is interacting. You may be blind and not see it, but it is still him engaging with the Survivor.
Not always, cause he can just stalk someone from the top of DDS and no one will notice and then he hits tier two and people finally notice, now he’s already a quarter of the way to tier 3 which isn’t really interacting because he’s just staring at you from far away
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
You had a bad game huh 😂 that sucks 😔
Michael Myers is perfect how he is powerful ability downside
it takes a tremendous amount of time to get Judith to work and about the next time by third hell only ,there probably want be stalk hell just have tier 2 if survivors play him well
Casual gamers gamers gamers don't gamers don't really gamers don't really care gamers don't really care about gamers don't really care about gamers don't really care about winning games and prefer not to face higher skill killers
Now if were talking about a team you'll be lucky if you get to tier 3
You didn't like my video huh ? I mean 4 were alive they did 3 gens gens maybe 4 so they got to play game
Why does every killer have to work hard every game and survivors don't have to work hard any game ? It literally takes alo game two get tier 3 ,in that notion with his add on the only killers isnt allowed to just eliminate a survivors against Micheal survivors play full games
To be respectfully honest with you, I find it really hard to understand what some of your points are. Michael is far from perfect, and it’s not because I had a bad game or bad few games. His add ons are problematic for the game and need to be adjusted accordingly.
If you’re trying to insinuate I’m a casual gamer, I’m very much not. I play this game a lot for hours at a time cause I love the game. I don’t see why bringing up casual talk about balance matters when he shouldn’t have to rely on add ons to be a good killer (which he does more often than not). That’s why I say they can buff his base kit, as that’s not inherently the issue with him.
And it’s not that I don’t want survivors or killers to work hard for something, it’s that his kit is outdated by a long shot and needs to be changed to be more modern. I go back to what I said about Mori’s, if Mori’s were altered cause of how they were previously, then his add ons need to be adjusted as well because he’s basically just bringing in an old mori except he doesn’t need to down you
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318293#Comment_3318293
"free" is a buzzword. It means nothing.
I don't consider a free kill game-throwing for 3-5 minutes straight. But go and keep hating the fact there's a killer that doesn't let you feel invincible as long as you are healthy.
It’s not the fact that I don’t feel “invincible” while healthy. I play injured half my games anyways. The thing is is that he can get a free kill on someone without even interacting with them, that’s the main issue. He doesn’t have to interact with someone at all and then he can just kill them outright without even having a chase with that person. Or if he does chase, it isn’t for a long time
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318296#Comment_3318296
Really the main problematic thing people have issues with is the tombstone piece
Plus, you forget how would they get the evil incarnate achievement if there was no tombstone???? It would take a lot of effort to remove it from all platforms
You say the evil incarnate achievement but they managed to change all of the achievements related to stranger things and they changed the 4 man hatch escape along with changing the skilled huntress achievement, so they can change that achievement as well
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361067/michael-needs-to-be-adjusted
Honestly it just sounds you're salty that you don't have to be hooked, lol
It's the same as people complaining about slugging and literally any other playstyle besides being hooked, why would you want to die the EXACT same way every game? I for one am tired of that
Also, Myers is one of the few unique characters left in the game, I do not want to remove his tombstone and just make him another m1 killer with hardly any power except exposed
Tombstone piece you can remove or nerf it fine but keep the tombstone's main effect or add more counters if it's such a big deal, we don't need to make him a generic m1 killer
We need more ways to kill and die in this game, not less
I don’t mind if they add more options to kill survivors, I would be fine with that actually as that means the killer has to earn the way to kill you. Where it stands as is, tombstone makes it so he’s able to just stalk someone else for awhile, move on to someone else, stalk them, get infinite t3 and the first time you see him, you get instantly killed.
It’s why I’m okay with them buffing his kit cause he does need the help (dunno if he needs it as much as pig and Sadako do though).
I don’t want him to become an m1 killer (though he kind of already is that anyways as his power doesn’t really add anything special unless you use his add ons). I want his problematic add ons getting changed as they suit unhealthy things for the game.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317980#Comment_3317980
That is just code for "Make him do something I can counter by looping"
It’s not that I want him to be countered by looping, that’s why I stated I’m fine with his base kit getting buffed cause I know it isn’t as strong as some other’s. But his iri add ons suit unhealthy play styles at times and need to be adjusted. He can just get a free kill by barely interacting with you that it’s not really fair to the survivors
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317980#Comment_3317980
If Myers requires an insane amount of stalk (Like 3 survivors worth of it) tombstone will then give survivors ample time to stall and get gens done
The issue with tombstone is getting a quick single kill using the piece since it’s downsides are much less severe
That’s true, I just feel like it’s too easy to activate the add on right now and the fact he’s able to just kill you without you seeing him all game.
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@HugTechLover said:
Not all the time… but it’s pretty easy to escape against infi Judith.
I’m not saying it’s not, just that to an extent you can’t control teammates at times or map rng. Which causes him to gain more stalk than would’ve on a different variant. I agree it can be really easy to escape against him, but I still think it’s unfair he’s able to remove you from the game without interacting with you
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@RainehDaze said:
No, people definitely complain about Mikey too. It's just there's enough people who realise how utterly stupid just going "nerf his good addons" in isolation is (then what does he have?), so it's less blatant.
Also, he did sort of get adjusted recently! Since now power-adjusted vaults can't be affected by perk. So the one other thing t3 had going for it with the long lunge (what, is he not going to get to benefit from coup de grace next?) doesn't really exist.
I’m fine with his power being affected by perks, and I know his good add ons are what makes him a fairly decent killer. Which is why if you nerf his good add ons, it makes him much worse. That’s why I’m fine with them buffing his base kit, but if they alter his base kit without changing his really strong add ons, that’ll make those stronger add ons even stronger and more oppressive.
And I must not have seen it, I don’t really see Mikey getting talked about, I know me and my friends talk about him a lot when play and talk about killers that need to be adjusted (along with pig and Sadako). I do hope they adjust him at some point in the near future though. Maybe sometime before Twins? (But I’d be completely fine with it being after them as Twins desperately need the love and attention to fix up their kit)
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@Phasmamain said:
I’d leave Judith’s tombstone but just make harder to activate. Tombstone piece on the other hand needs to be removed.
His other add-ons need changes too. His duration add-ons are out of whack (Hair bow is by far the best)
I’m not sure how I feel on just making Tombstone harder to activate. If they made it to do he had to interact with the survivor in some way before he can kill them like Sadako and PH, I think it would be healthier.
I agree with the other points though, Hairbow, Dead Rabbit, J. Myers Memorial even Judith’s Journal. They need to be nerfed or altered (and many more)
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think they said in the october q and a they are still prototyping it. Also, mori and key rework are tied into each other so it will take longer and will be a big update because of that.
True, I’m just hopefully they hadn’t scraped the idea because I’m genuinely looking forward to this update and I think it will drastically change the way we play. Which will be very exciting
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@Nathan13 said:
Maybe they scrapped it.
It’s definitely possible, but I’m hopeful that they didn’t
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@Faulds said:
I'd like them to experiment like that. But why do you think killers use gen slowdown too much? Why does survivors use anti-tunneling/camping perks so much? When you play survivor or killer at an average level (no need to be at high mmr) you can already see two major problems with the game... and what they need is not to disable perks: but to create in-built mechanics to deal with gen speed and camping-tunneling (instead of relying on perks to do so).
I agree, perks shouldn’t be a counter measure anymore to gameplay, there needs to be other counters to certain actions that can be taken in game without relying on another perk being added to fill that role. I believe the devs did say they had an idea for how to fix camping and people liked the idea a lot, so hopefully we’ll see that soon. I also believe the Mori change will hopefully bring slowdown to gens, the issue is that it needs to be oppressive enough to stall a game, but still be winnable on both sides, but not too oppressive as survivors would see it as too unfair. I think this does help players though since the meta is pretty stale and they can find new perks to play with and forces new ways of counteracting certain actions the other team does without the use of a perk
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@Phasmamain said:
How do we even know if overcome is meta? But as for the experiment people would just run the next best thing and stick to that
I definitely do understand people would probably go to the next best thing, though if it really did become an issue so quickly, they could switch that perk off as well if they wanted to. But I don’t know, just some food for thought, would be interesting if they did go through with something like this. And I just have a hunch overcome will become meta once it releases as it allows a survivor to just run to the corner of the map, have the killer hit them, run all the way away from that corner and now the killer is stuck there, very far behind and unable to really catch back up. (Won’t be for a long while until they do catch back up either)
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@LegitLegendary0 said:
if you have read the archives and the lore, we dont actually know whether vigo is the alchemist or not, it states that vigo and the alchemist were one or the same person but beyond that thats the greatest amount of lore in dbd history. Talbot Grimes may be vigo OR possibly a failed apprentice as seen with the cosmetic for dwight and claudette being vigos apprentices. Perhaps Talbot left vigo and took his notes to study the blight to eventualy do the entities bidding. (or possibly not and he is still performing his experience which the entity has allowed and talbot is actually not killing FOR the entity, but for his research on what the blight does and what it can do.) Any Questions go ahead.
Talbot found the journal as seen in the lore from 2018's Hallowed Blight event. He was never an apprentice to Vigo as no one knows what happened to him except maybe The Observer. The cosmetics for Dwight, Jake, and Claudette are most likely ties to what Vigo's apprentice, his marauder, and his pupil would've looked like. Or they helped Vigo before he disappeared. After all, Vigo can do a lot of things in the fog, would make sense for survivors to help him if they want to get out. And if you read the Archives for The Hunger back last year in Tome 1, you would know that our dear Alchemist has said that he would tear the limbs off both killers and survivors just so he can get more of the serum. Maybe our Scottish Alchemist didn't read far enough into the journal and just thought the serum would work. But upon knowing what the serum does to killers, there's no way it would work on a survivor and turn them into something that would help him escape the trials. Maybe the void, but he just wen from a survivor losing all hope, to being thrown into the void, to becoming the thing he once experimented on.
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@Khorzad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1596123#Comment_1596123
Nitpick, but an add-on from the blight confirms that Vigo also returned from the Void, somehow:
The journal of a man who claimed to have returned from The Void. The knowledge within has practical applications.
Well supposedly the journal was talking about the serum, which is what our alchemist used to escape the void. I doubt Vigo used the serum to escape the void and just used the auric particles in the fog to manifest an escape for himself.
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Surprised with how many people have problems on ps4. I play ps4 dbd everyday and have been playing it everyday since August of 2017. I main killer as well with all of my killers being p3 50 besides pig (please buff my girl). But I rarely get frames on killer, rarely get frames on survivor as well. Just doesn't make sense to me on how many people have issues on ps4 which I know personally, and my friends know personally, that we haven't really been affected. But geez, apparently people have, it's weird. And good lord, how long did it take you to get all of those screenshots and compile them into a post?
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1479650#Comment_1479650
It is more likely that it is how Julie wants to remember it, not how it actually went. It makes her look better, but ultimately, she was just led along by Frank.
I kind of wish the observer would sort of explain this to people: that memories have a bias based on who they come from. Certain people remember the same things differently.
@Khorzad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1479650#Comment_1479650
Yeah, the alternative timelines was basically confirmed with the Jeff outfit from a dystopian earth and of course, is obvious that some outfits are not the canon characters,like the Trapper was never a sea zombie with a hook in his head, for example.¡
The Legion I see it more like you said, Julie remembering things from her own point of view differently, they say that they are going to make tomes for each member of the legion, so they could do more scenes showing the death of the janitor, although I think it could get boring quickly, having the same cutscene over and over.
Sorry for taking awhile to respond, but yeah. I really just believe its her version of the incident. It"s how she remembers it compared to the others in the group.
@Dabihwow said:
I think all of this is entirely accurate, I mean it makes sense, also characters with black eyes like huntress, clown, and so on serve the entity willingly so this all adds up
Yeah, seems so that the characters with black eyes do it willingly. But once again, these are both theories. None of it is confirmed.
@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
I like this theory, thanks for sharing it!
I'm glad you liked it! Just something I thought was confirmed because of Deathslinger and its something I've been thinking of ever since Spirit released.
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@Khorzad said:
The Hillbilly descriptions come from outfits, his initial lore (the part about the animals) and the rest is in the maps descriptions, that is basically a gold mine of lore, specially at the beginning, they put a lot of lore there.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1476575#Comment_1476575
I think the Awakened Origins is meant to be a what if scenario and not part of the canon, because it implies that Rin went into an eventual rampage after beating the students due to losing herself in the bloodlust curse. Even if those descriptions are meant to happen just after she became a spirit, it wouldn’t work because her generic outfit is her wearing what she wore the night that she was killed.
Outfits descriptions are a bit tricky, because clearly some of them are not canon, other are and other seems to be what if. Like the other outfit in the collections of the Awakened Origins is the Oni, which we know is not canon, because the Oni never literally transformed into a demon, he started looked like one, but that looks was the base set of the character( and he was always a muscular giant), he didn’t seem to gain literal horns and start eating little kids.
And now that you said that, is one of the issues with the lore archives is that, besides the observations, we don’t have a perspective on the trials and specifically, on the killers, like their tomes are their backstories and stuff, but we are not going to see how Wraith is dealing being trapped in the realms, for example, so is not very probable that we get a point of view of the Spirit.
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1477229#Comment_1477229
He is just a man with a gun. What can he realistically do? He is too driven by his emotions to really think logically.
Based on certain parts of outfits, they are all correct. Now, I'm not saying 100% that they are all lore relevant, but for example, demon Oni was used. That one could be a alternate timeline where he was literally becoming the thing he hated. Another example of this is Susie's Lunar Event cosmetic where it says she wore that cosmetic to kill people. Yet Susie only killed the Janitor, and no one else during her original backstory, hell even in the new lore Susie only caused mayhem and injuries, no deaths.
I tried explaining Legion's tome awhile ago, I think there are two distinct possibilities on why it is such a big retcon to the original, because they can easily read the original and base it off that. I think that either its a different timeline, which explains why Julie came up with the name, why Joey is one of Julie's best friends, instead of a random party goer. Why the death of the janitor is so vastly different. Or, it's Julie remembering specific details wrong. Frank came up with the name, obviously, because we have Jeff creating the mural. So Julie creating the name moments before or the day of the janitor's death makes no sense. Another problem, Julie slaughters the janitor without Susie or Joey taking a stab at him. Which didn't happen, so it could be Julie remembering herself in this way instead of a coward to impress Frank. Remember, these are memories lost to the fog, meaning they have a chance to be different. If it's one person, we have to believe it is right. If it's a group of people like Legion, we have to assume details will be wrong. They will remember all of it differently than each other based on what they want the other's to think of themselves.
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@Khorzad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1475927#Comment_1475927
Oh, there is nothing wrong with the theory per se, just that personally, not a fan of some aspect of it. About Hillbilly, the lore implies that it kills because is jealous of the freedom that others enjoyed while he was trapped in his room:
After the deed was done, he continued to live his life at the farm, taking out his deranged violence on the animals that were allowed to run free. As he finally broke free from his shackles he ran through the cornfields, chasing and slaughtering whatever he could find. They never found the bodies of Max and Evelyn, but they did find tortured and disembowelled animals all over the farm.
We know that he killed plenty of people that came to the farm and may even went out to attack others:
There was some kid who used to wear a jacket just like this. He went for a drive one day and never made it home.
He repurposed a broken firework launcher into a weapon to bludgeon sozzled partygoers at the local trailer park.
The Silo is one of the oldest remaining buildings that made up Coldwind Farm. The great storm of 2003 brought the ancient structure crashing down. It was weeks later that searchers discovered twelve bodies that were buried in the ruins. Their crushed corpses were buried deep in the slurry that oozed out from the base and made identification almost impossible.
In my opinion, is a combination of defending his territory, not having empathy towards others and being very angry towards the rest of the world, that he probably sees in a similar light to his parents, because they were the only human contact that he had in his life, and they were awful to him, so why wouldn’t strangers be as awful as his parents? In his mind, it would be better to just kill them.
The thing with Wraith is that contrary to Caleb, he didn’t seem to be obsessed with revenge, more on the fact that he killed innocents and that damned him forever:
Returning to the place where it all began, he contemplates the time when he was a decent human being.
Rusted steel weaves and slices along his body, sharp edges scraping with each moment. It was the same fate as his victims he fed into the crusher, though they may have been granted the mercy of death.
The darkness burns brightly within. With it comes the anger and violence of a man compelled to kill.
And one of the outfits implies that he has been consumed by those negative feelings, so there wouldn’t be need to fool him given his state, but we know very little of who he was or even what happened after he killed his boss, because I don’t think it was, that he killed his boss and went to the realm, no something happened to him.
About Spirit, I tend to compare to Kayako of the Grudge, where is a similar deal where a victim becomes a vengeful ghost, but stalks and attacks everyone that enters her house, even if they had nothing to do with her death. Rin has a similar modus operandi, as technically, she is haunting her old home because killers tend to stay in their realms, with some exceptions (Clown and Ghostface):
"When someone dies in the grip of a powerful rage... a curse is born. The curse gathers in that place of death. Those who encounter it will be consumed by its fury. "
— The Grudge
And I think that she is just in an extreme emotional state that makes her lash out against everyone that she sees because they happen to be in the way, seeking revenge on the fact that they live and she didn’t. The dead haunting the living because they hate then for having the ability to enjoy life while they can’t is a common plot and motive in fiction.
About Caleb, my interpretation is that, like Zarina that also saw stuff, it was an invitation and a way to entrap them into entering the realm, but although as I said, I like more the idea that Caleb is like a bounty hunter of the Realms, hunting the survivors like the bounties in his past (I doubt that Caleb would care if you were truly guilty of the crime that you were accused of) and collecting coins and inventing stuff, as my headcanon is that the gates of his realm are an invention that he thought of and the entity made it real, and I could see him, Amanda and possibly Max working on inventing stuff to torture people.
That's fine, not all theories should be believed. I do understand Billy's reasoning now. Defense on his home and not knowing if others would treat him the same, almost like Cannibal in a way. Those descriptions must be the new addons because I don't remember those quotes, and I mained Billy. Maybe I just didn't see them.
Wraith makes sense because he never wanted to kill anyone, Azarov basically forced him to unwillingly. Hopefully this tome explains a little more about him because he definitely did not instantly get taken into the realms.
Never considered Grudge because I haven't seen the movie. Interesting comparison and actually makes sense. Meaning Rin would have a grudge on the survivors for two reasons, she believes they're in her way to getting her father, or she's angry that they get to continue living and she doesn't.
Never took into consideration of Caleb creating the exit gates, but it does seem like something he would probably create. And yeah, it's very possibly that they saw these things just to be dragged into the Entity's realm. And yeah, him Max and Amanda are all really intelligent killers, so I would be surprised that all of them have the capability of being able to invent deadly contraptions.
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@Khorzad said:
I always had issues with this theory that the Entity controls what some killer see and is all about the eyes. Personally, I dislike that it takes agency from some of the killers and because it goes against some of the Entity’s corruption, that yes, uses every tool available to control killers, but its deal is that it corrupts people, it makes them into worse monsters, slowly taking away their humanity, not just by torture or coercion, but the nature of the Entity itself makes people worse, which we see in the Archives:
The Entity is the cosmic embodiment of evil. Back home we witnessed how its very presence turns worlds inside out… how it seems to remove or extinguish any sense of empathy or compassion within communities… how it brings people to the brink of madness and… well… pushes them in.
And that said, I don’t believe it, because at the end of the day, the eyes are a design choice and not all characters with glowing eyes are consistent in the “they believe that they are killing their revenge targets over and over” idea:
-Hillbilly has glowing eyes, but he has shown to be an indiscriminate killer in his backstory and archive entry(in observations), so there is no reason for making him see things.
-We know from outfits descriptions that the Wraith is aware of what he has become and is more of a “revenge against the world and hating what I become” theme with him, that not knowing that he is killing innocents:
Wrap your face in the blood-stained cloth of your prey and take to the shadows to stalk your next victim.
And if he was blinded by the Entity, I don’t think he would have the agency to form a relationship with the Nurse.
-Spirit is described as an onryō, a undead that seeks revenge against all of the living for her state and what she suffered. Even the stuff about the one that actually caused her pain being untouched seems to be basic onryo lore:
The Spirit draws her power from their wrath, haunting the living as retribution for her suffering.
Proper attire for a proper ceremony. No one gets out alive.
-The Oni is the one character that is basically confirmed that is not seeing things. As we know that he is aware and dislikes the existence of the Entity, knowing that is using tricks to make him angry:
Kazan shuddered with rage as he stepped into the area. Unable to restrain himself, he unleashed his might on a statue atop the shrine, clubbing its arms and head to pieces. Even after he left, a rot seemed to pervade the air. The chime of bells played softly on the wind, as everything around them crumbled. Torn from Kazan's memories, the shrine now stood on the estate of this childhood home - a trick by the Entity that infuriated him even more.
He doesn't need to be fooled to think that the survivors are unfit people that don’t deserve to live,their existence in the realm is probably proof enough for someone like Kazan, that loves to blame people for his own issues.
-Deathslinger is the one that I think fits the most, but again, there is not 100% proof that is the case, given that Caleb still seems sane enough to know that if he saw the survivors as the people that wronged him, people that he kills time and time again, he would know that is just an illusion and that he is killing normal people in reality. So he would have to not care about killing strangers no matter what.
And about controlling killers, I don’t think that the Entity has trouble with that or at the very least, has anything to fear from them. What can PH or Myers do if they rebel? Nothing, the Entity is a cosmic entity well above their paygrade and at the end of the day, even PH, despite making a deal and probably having more freedom than others, is still a tool for the Entity. Even the Observer, that started thinking that he could take out the Entity, that his position gave him a chance to defeat it and that the Entity was just an Ancient One, found “something” about it that made him lose all hope, realize that he was wrong about most stuff about it and almost go mad:
Life is not life in this prison, and death is not an escape. It is merely the start of a new trial and most survivors are aware they are caught in something they will never understand. Why this is all happening is no longer obvious to me. The truth is… I don't know what to believe anymore… The Entity is… not what it is… or what I thought it was…
And the thing is, the Entity has way more killers and survivors than what we see in game, like, it is described as taking over the populations of entire planets, so at the very least,it has hundreds or thousands of different killers and survivors running around, so one or two rebelling wouldn’t change much. You need to take out the very system itself of the trials to cause some real damage to the Entity.
I agree that there are holes in the theory, and while yes, it's possible that I'm wrong, there's no harm in speculation. But the theory can still prevail given some details.You commented on Hillbilly being an indiscriminate killer, which while true, doesn't explain why he would randomly kill the farmer. Maybe he was protecting his home, but the farmer didn't do anything wrong to him, so why randomly kill this one person? I get the Entity probably forced him to do it, but if he was still human before being taken, why randomly kill them?
Yes, Wraith definitely seems outset as a vengeful warrior to right the wrong, but remember, the theory talks about survivors only, meaning it probably wouldn't affect a killer because they are all basically working together, plus, the Entity feeds off any emotion. So if it sensed Wraith was in love with Nurse, then by all means, let them be in love, it just gets more nourishment from that.
While Spirit is basically an Onryo, it doesn't sit right with me that she kills innocents without attacking the one that wronged her. She really only wants her father dead, and while the spirit attacks anyone living, it just doesn't make sense she attacks and has Grudges (the score event for hitting a survivor out of your power) against these survivors that haven't done anything. But yet again, could be another case of the Entity just consuming all of their humanity leaving them just a hollow shell, a puppet for a puppeteer if you will.
Oni I was just throwing out as a maybe. I didn't think he saw survivors as false samurai because he has the black eyes found in killers that enjoy killing, mainly Huntress and Clown. Hell, he's one of the strongest killers but the easiest one to get rage out of. Which is why his whole power is basically him getting extremely mad but he doesn't care because he can still honor his name by killing.
Caleb just made sense because why would he see others at the end of the trail? But like you said, he would figure out he had killed them already. But maybe sanity isn't the problem and it's more of vengeance and humanity. He wouldn't care if they were the same so long as he got revenge. Or he just has no humanity left meaning he wouldn't care about killing them over and over, he still gets what he wants in the end.
Yeah it definitely seems like it has no problems with controlling the killers. PH and Michael are examples, and it's not like they can bring an uprising, they'll be tossed into the void immediately. And the Observer seems to have gown down the path of insanity recently, if he doesn't know what to believe anymore, how can we be certain that ending the trials will end the Entity once and for all? On paper it makes sense, get rid of the only way it can get nourishment, and you succeed. But if the Entity sees this coming, it can easily stop them, or just let it go on and quickly create a fail-safe in case anything goes wrong.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1469524#Comment_1469524
That's an odd one. Also, especially since The Entity chose to create generators for the survivors, it could go further back, but even then there would be a point when survivors may not know how to use it. Why The Entity chooses light - a source that weakens it - as part of the game.
There are so many questions, should we explore deep enough!
@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1471077#Comment_1471077
I'm standing with the theory that while the entity gets the survivors, things like gens, hatch etc are coming from a different eldritch being, that Ben and Vigo are hitherto unaware off, and thus we don't know. and maybe there was a 'victory' on the other beings side that limits the timeframe from which the entity can plug survivors?
also on the maintopic here: Here's a nice song for the killers then:
I had never taken that into consideration, I had always believed hatch was created by one of the survivors, but it is completely possible it was made by an outside source. The thing I'm curious about is if we'll ever get to know the name of the Entity, because no matter what it is, demon, cosmic being, eldritch truth, great one, ancient, it has a name. And knowing its name could be one step closer to killing the creature.
And I am genuinely curious for what they have planned because they have 10 slots for tomes so they are planning to take his for awhile, I just hope they answer a few key points down the line, like Vigo, Benedict, the Observer and more about the Entity in general.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
If we do assume for a moment the order Killers 'appear' is chronological for the Entity's realm. Which means it only recently brought in the killers and arenas it has trouble controlling.
Well, we don't entirely know that. The devs have stated that there are killers in the trials that we haven't seen before but others have. Meaning the same for survivors. Let's take a moment to look at the timeline. Plague is the oldest from Babylon, and then Huntress confirmed WW1, so approximately 1917 (when Germany invaded Russia during that war, it was 1914, we don't know for sure where she's taken from. Safe bet is 1914-1917). This is where we can't really confirm many years of being taken. Clown has a set year, Doc does as well, with the newest being either Spirit or Legion in 1996 (i think that's the date on the photo for the graduating class, that or '98).
So while interesting offer on killers being added into the trials as we're seeing, while entirely possible, I do not think that is the case. But it does bring in killers that it either has trouble controlling or let it do whatever it wants. Examples are Michael, Pyramid Head, maybe even Demo.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1467685#Comment_1467685
So we might reach the moment when the Entity bites off more than it can chew?
edit: is that a genuine lore-reason we don't get 2:8? cause can you imagine in-universe killers trying to organize who goes after whom and ending up confusing each other because Wraith would be all 'Who is Bayshore?'
edit 2: You know what's most bitter here? Once again Caleb is getting exploited...
@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1467432#Comment_1467432
I suppose a quick answer to that would be each killer is being dealt with in different ways. Those who are tortured would fear being tortured more for saying anything. Those who just enjoy it such as Legion or Jed Olsen wouldn't want to spoil their cushy role. Adiris sees The Entity as a God, so fear would work with her and Leatherface.
Even those who are so powerful they can break The Entities rules such as Michael or Pyramid Head probably don't speak anyway! Michael just kills, and Pyramid Head's ties to Silent Hill probably means it could leave any time it wants to.
I just feel that having the killers able to converse is a troublesome situation regardless. However, if this is indeed a thing The Entity I'd imagine uses multiple tactics tailored for each Killer.
It is entirely possible the Entity can come across a situation where it indeed has made a mistake, but through the observer, we know it only attacks worlds that don't understand the metaphysical relationship between their own thoughts and the world they live in.So maybe that won't happen yet.
Seeing as how we don't know exactly how long each killer has been in the world, and the Entity grows stronger each passing day, I doubt there would be a time this visage slips up, revealing what the survivors truly look like. The Entity definitely goes about each killer differently, Entity touched killers see survivors that look like the people that wronged them. Tortured killers have their body mangled in some way to show they weren't willing at first. Those that enjoy the hunt don't have any difference to their body, examples would be Huntress, Clown, Michael, Ghostface, Legion (Some of these killers also have black, soulless eyes, mainly Huntress and Clown. Which might mean they just enjoy what they are doing).
Every killer is being exploited technically speaking. Plague prayed to a god in hopes of the her plague ridden body being cured, but this god just turned a deadly plague into a deadly weapon. She houses a living infection inside her body and induces herself to vomit to not only attack, but get others sick. Spirit wanted revenge but she still remains cut up and dismembered. Caleb gets to hunt, but he is hunting people he doesn't realize aren't his enemies. Oni doesn't have glowing eyes, but he probably sees the survivors as false samurais, and he was forced into literally becoming the thing he hated being called, an Oni. Huntress may just not know any better, or she just sees it as enjoyment. Trapper has iron embedded into his flesh to show that he was tormented to do the bidding of the Entity.
If we go on like this, we can find small flaws in certain killers to show that they are being misused and treated unfairly in the realm, but they don't care anymore, because it's better than what happened before they got taken. Spirit can live on, so can Plague. Caleb can hunt the people that wronged him, Oni can continue his legacy of a samurai and cut down the false ones. Huntress gets to have enjoyment from her chases. Trapper gets to hone in on his trapping skills and doesn't have to worry about a family fortune. No matter their situation, this is better than when they were in the real world.
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I glossed over a few comments and saw a lot of people pointing out the usual, Plague, Spirit, Wraith, Caleb, (Surprised people didn't say Billy). Plague can be easily explained, she wanted to stop feeling the pain of the plague infecting her body and prayed to the gods for help. One god answered her call, the Entity. We can presume what happened to Spirit (touch on that in a bit) happened to Adiris. To get what she wanted, she offered to do anything for the being, which the Entity forces her to kill survivors like a devotee to their god.
The next four, Spirit, Wraith, Caleb, and Hillbilly can all be explained by a topic I didn't see brought up. Entity touched eyes have been a theory for awhile, which was confirmed for Caleb's release (wait for that). All four killers have milky-white/glowing eyes. (Don't include doctor, that's just electricity coursing through the electrodes and wires in his body). Let's take a look at some lore, to explain what these eyes could mean... let's start with Philip. Wraith worked at a car crusher place (don't know what it's called) and he noticed blood from the trunk of a car. He opened the trunk to find a man bound and gagged. He frees the man and his boss Azarov shoots the freed person. Azarov explains that nearly every car had an innocent life in it, and Wraith killed his boss.
Next, Hillbilly, he was sealed away in a room because he was disfigured at birth. His parents hated the way their son looked so they just locked him up. One day, Max broke free and slaughtered his parents and just about every animal on the farm.
Next, Rin, our first true case of "but they didn't even kill anyone". Spirit had killed no one, yet she was taken for her rage, possibly from Oni Yamaoka. She came home, found her mother in pieces, and her father tried killing her (speculated that he has killed himself, not confirmed but his wife is dead, he's holding the weapon, and his daughter disappeared). As Rin laid in shards of glass and blood, she wished she could take revenge on her father, and the Entity took that offer, consuming her into the fog.
Last but not least, Caleb. Ah, Mr. Quinn, he is the confirmation of the Entity touched eyes theory. Caleb was a brilliant engineer, yet his work was being stolen by Bayshore, Caleb tried to kill Bayshore but he lived, which ends Caleb sentenced to jail. The warden makes a deal with Caleb, and he becomes our lovable bounty hunter. He returns to the prison to find the warden is no longer there and has been replaced by Bayshore (who bought the Hellshire Prison). Caleb kills Bayshore and returns to his cell, where he is taken by the Entity. This next part is straight from Deathslinger's lore in game. "At his feet, he saw a dusty path, and, at its end, silhouettes of all who had done him wrong: the boys who bullied him, the executives who took advantage of him, and, again... Henry Bayshore, Emerging from a fog were the tools to dispose of them -- unforgiving steel hooks, brilliant and beautiful in their simplicity. Pain tore through his leg as he stood, but he endured, pushing onwards, walking the dusty path, leaving a trail of blood flowing behind him." This line of text, confirms this theory... but, what is this theory exactly?
For those that don't know, Entity touched eyes make a killer see different things. For example, Caleb sees the hooks, alright, normal, but he sees people that wronged him. Weird, he even sees Bayshore, whom he just killed moments before being taken. Yet he seeks hooks completely fine, and who do we put on hooks? Survivors. That is the theory in a nutshell. Caleb would have no reason to kill, but since he sees the survivors as Bayshore and the people that wronged him, he has a desire to kill them, and he can do it forever. Same with Spirit. She has no reason to kill these innocent people, yet she wants to take revenge on her father. So if she sees all the survivors as her dad, she has a reason to kill them. Same goes for Wraith and Billy. Philip sees his boss Azarov, he's the one that tormented Wraith by shooting the man in front of Philip. Billy sees his parents, they locked him in a room and fed him through a hole in the wall. Unless he just doesn't know not to attack others and goes off a feral impulse (like Huntress) it is safe to presume (for now until disproved) that he sees his parents instead of the survivors.
Oh, about Trapper as well, any killer that was unwilling was tortured. Evan is a prime example with all those iron hooks in his flesh. Nurse is possible with a pillowcase over her head, endlessly suffocating her. Doctor is also a possibility as he is forced to forever smile and remain vigilant with his eyelids peeled open.
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The Entity is just that, an entity, a formless being able to shape and manifest into anything it wants, like spikes over the exit gates, claws over gens, or the dear spider for sacrificing. The Entity was given no gender, and has no gender. Think of Cthulhu because our dear spider-god is basically that of a great one from H.P. Lovecraft's works. A cosmic, godlike being that our minds cannot comprehend, has a cult following (confirmed in Tome 1), and does not need to reproduce. It only has she/her attached to it because of the French mother language of the devs, which gives the entity a feminine pronoun
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@SpookyStabby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433937#Comment_1433937
Very nice observations! Baker going over to the other side is something I had also considered since he gets more rambling and out of focus as his entries go on.
@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433581#Comment_1433581
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/679723#Comment_679723
I've always had the theory that he was the first person to slowly start to become a killer or at least The Entity was starting to put the restrictions on The Killers about going after him.
This would make sense as from Amanda and clown seem to outright ignore him which he interprets as a second chance and seeing him as too aware respectively
However when you think about it this doesn't actually make sense for each of them.
Amanda deluded herself into the impression that she was correct with her nobody deserves a second chance mentality and sees the entity as a pseudo John figure there is no way I could see her giving someone a second chance. Unless you were specifically told to.
We know that clown is a very sadistic man on so it makes no sense for him to leave it with potential victim by himself even to the stage way he simply nodded in acknowledgement to him.
So it's quite possible that The Killers were told not to go off to him or simply notice something in him that is making them leave him be but considering it stopped after clown that idea kind of fell flat
I've always considered Benedict as a character that had turned into a killer, what with his final message of "If someone finds my body, please bury it" and we know death is not a way out. I want to devs to add more lore to him like they said they were, but right now we're getting original character's backstories, learning more about the observer, and more about the alchemist than baker sadly. Tome 2 even referenced Vigo in observation number 8. They're giving us clues and we just don't know how to piece everything together.
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I was reading through and wanted to add my own comment. It always bugged me seeing people say "nerf noed" because they say to nerf a perk that you can remove. You see no one saying to nerf arguably the strongest or second strongest hex perk, Devour Hope; "but you can cleanse the totem it's assigned to." Okay? You can cleanse noed as well, I honestly think people forget that noed wasn't a hex perk until Hag released and it got nerfed.
And if we're talking about noed being nerfed why don't we touch a survivor perk. DS (Decisive Strike if you aren't familiar with the abbreviation) I had a match where I was chasing someone and another survivor got unhooked. I hooked the person I was chasing and the survivor that got unhooked got healed and rushed the hook. So I downed both survivors and left the survivor who was farmed on the floor, picked up the other survivor and they escaped because of decisive. Hmm anti-tunneling perk? But I didn't tunnel you, if DS is an anti-tunneling perk, it should deactivate after the survivor gets healed, because that shows they are not being tunneled. (Small gripe but proves my point of an unfair perk on the survivor side.)
Sure, there are unfair killer perks, a good timed Bloodwarden will kill every survivor that didn't escape, a 5 stack Devour Hope will obliterate a team if they can't find the totem. Hell, look at Michael (not a perk but a personal gripe with one of the 20 amazing killers we have), one of the two killers since 2016 that hasn't been touched until Chapter 16's release (The other is Hillbilly). A Rancor makes the obsession terrified of end game, Remember Me makes you want the obsession dead as fast as possible. Surveillance forces you to keep tabs on all gens and you know which gen is being worked on (as Doc i had every gen white with that perk, it's a godsend).
Yet, all of the perks I mentioned are able to be countered, Bloodwarden - don't let them get a hook, or don't have the gate opened when no one is safe. Devour - break the totem (same goes for noed you lazy survivor that can run small game, inner strength or detective's hunch to see how many totems are left in the match) Michael is just don't give him his power, hard but doable. Rancor, force an obsession swap or stay near the gate at the end to rush out and not get downed instantly. Remember Me is just try your best to not get hit or not be chased. Surveillance is work on a gen while the killer is occupied in a chase, they may not notice the yellow aura of a survivor working on it, or work on multiple at once, splitting the attention and the killer has to choose which they think is closer.
Now let's see how to counter the survivor's perks, DS - don't pick them up, which segues into Unbreakable - pick up the... oh that's not good. Well, you can always stay near the downed survivor to stop them from... Soul Guard - don't hit the survivor for 8 full seconds after they get up. At least the final... Adrenaline - unless you're huntress, PH or Deathslinger good luck getting that survivor. That;s four of the good survivor perks and they all work together. To counter prove thyself, use Pop, counter self care use Nurse's, lots of perks are used to counter other perks. Distortion counters BBQ, Nurse's any aura reading perk; Boil Over and Breakout counter Iron Grasp; Wake Up counters Remember Me; Iron Will counters Stridor; RA (Repressed Alliance) counters PGTW (Pop Goes the Weasel); Detective's Hunch, Inner Strength, and Small Game counters NOED, Devour, Huntress Lullaby, Third Seal, Ruin, Haunted Grounds, Retribution, Thrill of the Hunt. (Weird 8 hex perks but people only complain about 1... even though they can all be broken... huh, that's interesting.)
Just wanted to put this here because it always bothers me hearing "Nerf noed" or "nerf this" "nerf that". Especially when those things can be countered while others cannot. Yes, I am a killer main, I play both sides fairly equally but I play killer more, I also have over 6,000 hours into this game so I would like to think I at least know some stuff to add to the conversation to hopefully give better insight to those that need it.
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I feel like there is one true way to explain the retcon. Alternate timeline. While at first it may sound stupid, it could explain all of that. All of them have the same boring mask, with Frank getting the blood smear at the end of the cutscene. Unless the entity changed the masks, they all made their own mask at one point.
Humor me and recall Julie giving a bunch of names for their group. Legion’s lore specifically states Jeff making the mural Meaning Frank has to have made the name of at least knew about the name way before the janitor incident, which doesn’t seem to happen in this instance. Julie comes up with the name moments before the janitor incident.
Now, this definitely doesn’t fit the lore, and rereading Legion’s lore, Julie closes her eyes when stabbing the janitor, meaning one of two things. Julie remembers that incident differently than Frank, which would explain why Legion’s actual lore explains Frank having to force the others to kill the janitor. Or alternate timeline.
Either is possible. Since this is Julie’s memories, she wouldn’t have a memory of talking to Jeff to get the mural, maybe she remembers coming up with the name. Maybe she portrayed herself as this character that slaughtered the janitor mercilessly. But this could be the ability the mind has to change a story the more times it’s told. Maybe she thinks herself as the leader, when in actuality she never was. Maybe she thinks she killed the janitor, when it was a collaborative effort. Maybe this is what she’s thinking of when she closes her eyes. We won’t know for now.
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Good theory. Nothing currently is able to disprove anything you’ve suggested, and like Yung_Slug above states that Jack could be another name he used because of a card. Very doubtful that his real name would be Ace, but not impossible. Another theory you could have on there is that he didn’t escape the woman. Like you mentioned above, the Entity has taken people from when they’re about to die. And if the people he collected debt from couldn’t find him, he could’ve went missing by fleeing to a different country. (Since the theory of David and Donnie, the only possible way for them to meet is if they are in the same country before he moves to a new life.)
Speaking of new life, if we are to believe his real name is Donnie and that he’s connected to King. What better way to throw off the people searching for you by changing your name. Maybe to something you know, like gambling? Aces are prominent in a lot of lucky plays for a gambler, so not far fetched that he changed his name to something based on luck. Besides me thinking that whomever was with the woman in arcus 1672 definitely didn’t make it out, I can see most of this theory
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@Rattman said:
Most likely those three called revelations, cause they are a teaser.
Can this be a easter egg or reference for something licensed tho?
Doesn’t appear licensed, and if these are a teaser, then my mind will be blown because that’s a cleaver way of doing it. If the detective and seductive woman are the next two characters that would be amazing. And it might be an Easter egg, or it could be referencing the next chapter
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@MerGirl2003 said:
As far-fetched as it sounds, I actually really like this idea. I wish more original survivors had actual connections with their killers.
Depending on the killer, they have specific, tiny details about the connection. Nea and Nurse, Nurse was a nurse at Crotus, and Nea was dared to tag the asylum. As someone stated above, Adam and Spirit where in Japan, and they also (potentially) both died. Jeff and Legion physically met each other. Adiris and Jane were devoted to their cause, and both (potentially) died. These appear to be the only ones though. I could be wrong, but we’ll have to wait for more details through the Archives once we get that
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This is why placing licensed content into lore is hard to wrap the story around. Which means it’s probability best to exclude them because they mess with the original flow of the game’s story too much.
Back on topic, the survivors are most likely alive. Someone above mentioned Kate, she physically saw the Entity come from the sky to grab her. Yes, we don’t know what happened to them when they got taken, but as they got more and more developed into lore, we know the most likely candidates to have died. Adam and Jane. Adam was in a train crash, and Jane was in a car crash. Since we know too little about the others, it’s hard to know if they died or not. But seeing as how they feel pain, to the point where they scream every time they are afflicted by it, they definitely aren’t dead or in a limbo state between life or death. They can feel actual pain, which is probably enhanced by the entity.
And we know from the Arcus entries that the Entity takes all of one survivor out of every single timeline, which explains how we can get multiple survivors at once
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@Hoodied said:
This is the plague actually sadly, as she chopped off her toe in the lore and the toe is seen missing in game
Was it Adiris? I don’t entirely remember her backstory it was either herself or one of her follows is all I could remember