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  • @Seraphor said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256520#Comment_3256520

    But including matches with DCs makes your statistics biased. You're including games with a foregone conclusion right from the start.

    I've had countless games with an early DC that would have been more than salvageable. Games where the remaining 3 survivors have manged to repair about 4.5 gens, more than enough for a 4th survivor to have secured multiple escapes.

    If you want your death to be counted, don't DC. Just as you're not supposed to anyway.

    If the game is truly hopeless, then you'll die faster than your DC penalty anyway.

    YOU are biasing the statistics by DCing. Stop It.

    you are such a lelplayer like you really come out with all the most basic bullshit, every time.

    including DC's means games with a foregone conclusion

    countless games with an early DC that was more than salvageable

    if game is hopeless, you die faster than the penalty

    all of this ignores varying psychological states of survivors. DC games are not a foregone conclusion, i have escaped from them enough times to know that it's probably more likely i will escape a 3v1 than a 4v1 where one of my teammates appears to be suicidally depressed but still trying half-heartedly anyway - because they are a liability and they will make more mistakes and will largely play like trash, while their continuing presence will affect how the rest of the team plays. feeling hopeless is a form of psychological distress, nobody should be forced to remain in that situation, maybe we should give survivors a /wrists emote so they can bleed themselves out of the game.

    whether the situation seems hopeless depends on that survivor's individual perspective, and particularly for newer or less-skilled survivors, that feeling is going to kick in faster. for that player, it might not be salvageable, and they would almost certainly not escape, even if the rest of the team manage it. in their best case scenario, that survivor is a simple deadweight to try to drag through the trial.

    games where the killer fully dominates can end up in farm games where the survivors hold no pressure and the killer can mess around repeatedly downing survivors and letting them wiggle out. i had a friend stuck in a game like that for 40 minutes with a blight, i was on discord with him while he was stuck in that match and he told me it started with slugging at 5-gen.

    so do you think survivors have any kind of objective means to determine absolutely whether the game is hopeless or not, particularly in solo queue, where you have a very limited idea of the quality of your teammates, beyond their own experience and comparison with the sense of hopelessness they are feeling at any given moment preceding a DC?

    game psychology is really important; understand this - if game is #########, no point in playing. so i haven't played a trial in 2 weeks, big cba for game where balance rests on a needle point and you don't even know how much weighting each side is putting on their side of the scales, letalone if your own team is pitching feathers for counterbalance.

    removing DC games is ignoring part of the reality, when the reality is that playing solo survivor is fairly /wrists, particularly if you get an overpowered killer.

    @Seraphor said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256577#Comment_3256577

    But would they have had that 3K if nobody DCd?

    If you're stating that the non-DC games show she has a low kill rate, that infers that she has a low kill rate unless someone DCs.

    Is Nurse so bad that she can't win unless someone DCs and makes it an easy 3K? Is that what you're saying?

    so much lelplayer dyslogic

    in So the kill rate is 60% overall right? Comment by Ashes

  • what about the games where the killer is trying to avoid raising their MMR and gifts free escapes? that's a 0K that artificially lowers the kill rate and is indistinguishable from a genuine 0K in how it processed into those stats.

    in So the kill rate is 60% overall right? Comment by Ashes

  • @Maelstrom808 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248063#Comment_3248063

    First let me say thank you for the mature response and for the kind and thoughtful words. There is no need to feel guilty as there is so much Us vs. Them on these boards it's all too easy to make assumptions.

    I don't want to write out a whole thesis on the game so I'll say that I agree with almost everything in your post, the exception being that the difference in what I saw in my games between having a DC penalty, and not having it was night and day. The games ruined for me by either DCs or alternate methods of quitting like hook suicides or afking rose dramatically when the penalty was removed.

    I don't like the compounding penalties for DCs. I have not infrequent DCs from my internet so it can occasionally be a problem. I personally would like to see a three pronged solution or approach.

    1) a non-compounding flat 20-30 minute DC penalty. It doesn't increase, but it's harsh enough to discourage the attitude of "I don't like this map, I'll DC and grab a drink real quick before I start a new one." If someone is actually angry and frustrated enough to ragequit, it gives some time to cool down. If it's an actual internet failure, it takes awhile, but you know it won't get worse, and if it happens frequently enough to be a real problem with the game, then the player needs to get their service sorted out.

    2) when hooked, instead of a "Kobe" phase and a struggle phase, you have two functionally identical phases. You hit skill checks that fill a bar, not unlike the wiggle mechanic. When the bar is full, you get an attempt to pull yourself off the hook at the same chance of success we have now. Failure at any point doesn't progress the hook timer or regress your escape progress, you just don't make progress towards an escape. Have it so if you hit every check you get something like four to six total escape attempts across the two stages.

    3) If you afk, on your third crow, a timer starts and 45 seconds later you automatically DC and get the time out penalty associated with that. Maybe have the loud noise notification from the crows audible to all the players, not just the killer, so everyone knows why they DC'd.

    Obviously they still need to work on balance issues and the player experience on both sides to reduce people wanting to quit in the first place, but quitting has become normalized, and it really shouldn't be. I'd just rather force people to look at the game for all the good and the bad and decide if they can accept both before they queue up at all. If it means losing a chunk of the playerbase, so be it. That will be a bigger incentive than anything for BHVR to get the issues that drive players out resolved quickly.

    Crap, that still turned into an essay.

    2) definitely seems like a good idea to me, i still remember first playing back in 2016 feeling like there wasn't ever really any purpose to trying self-unhook, it was just obvious self-sabotage without the offerings and the more recent perks. at the least this way they would rule out one means of sabotaging the team. perhaps players could try to self-unhook before the bar is full at a reduced chance, but still maintaining the same concept of not advancing the hook stage progress and still limited to max 3 attempts per stage. my idea could be thrown out, but i particularly like the additional agency this whole concept gives to the survivor without facilitating sabotage.

    i would hope that 3) would be unnecessary, but then, anything to get afk players out of the way as they are quite a risk factor for both sides.

    hopefully there will still be room for tweaks to the DC system, even though 15 minutes is the longest ban i have eaten, it was still enough to move me over to a different game for the following hours. most of the time i do follow that kind of logic, if players don't like or can't deal with the game how it is, they should play something else. with the way that difficulty varies so wildly, i truly hope the devs recognise the current potential for steep imbalance, because when you click ready as a survivor you really have no way of telling if you'll be playing on very easy or on very hard.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @zHypnotism said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247702#Comment_3247702

    so you are saying i should play worse and put my own fun at risk so survivors have a shot at their challenge? I mean sure if i happen to get a down right next to a wall i might as well go for the pickup but yes, even when theres "only" 1 guy trying to save with a blind it feels just as awful on the receiving end and there's little to no counterplay apart from slugging and chasing the flashlight saving ones off...

    not really, considering slugging is pretty basic anyway; those were just few reasons not to slug

    in When is slugging actually "allowed" Comment by Ashes

  • @oporopolist said:

    I'm not sure you are understanding what the problem is @Seraphor

    They are not having chases, stunning the killer, making rescue plays. They are not even spending enough time in the games to start learning the maps, before they are slugged and bleeding out. I have never seen more one-sided play.

    This isn't a complaint about soloQ. It's a complaint that people who are being encouraged to play this game with a "free" weekend are being thrown into lobbies with experienced killers (and in the case of that 1200 hour killer I mentioned earlier - very experienced killers) who are just stomping them in a minute of play. It can't be fun for either side. The game needs new blood. A lot of people have left, people I used to play with. The new RE chapter helped. This free weekend should have helped too, but I don't think many people will stick around with the kind of matchmaking they are being shown.

    i wouldn't worry about his opinion, he seems like a bit of an elitist forum troll with nearly 30 posts TODAY. matchmaking is a disgrace particularly for new players, i agree with you, and i don't think it's inviting at all. i also think the game rn is pretty fundamentally flawed and the devs seem only partially aware of that. maybe in the coming months would be a better time to try, but on the other hand, i doubt they'll ever give meaningful balance changes to the S tier killers who really are kind of outliers.

    in New players getting stomped by ppl with 100s/1000s hours experience! Comment by Ashes

  • i do feel like before 6.1 it was rare to see the bonus reach 100% in either direction; the fact that survivor 100% is immensely common now compared to before must indicate something. i often find i get killer 100% for 1-2 games and then it will swap back over to 100% survivor for the rest of the night.

    in 100% incentives are always on Survivor Comment by Ashes

  • i posted something here, this is not the first time i've had a post vanish on the DBD forums only to mysteriously reappear later (I HOPE).

    edit: and there it is, thankfully

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @Maelstrom808 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246777#Comment_3246777

    Okay then.

    You assert that I have a callous attitude because I diminish the significance of someone else having an unenjoyable game. This is true to a point. I am reducing the significance of that one person's enjoyment when considered with the fact that there are five people in that match. Who is really being more callous in their attitude? The person that DC's without any consideration to the experience of the other four people in the match, or the person that blames the DCer for leaving the remaining four with a lose-lose situation?

    I'm not there to just annihilate the remaining survivors. I do what I can not to make it worse for them. I let them finish gens. If someone doesn't want to wait it out and indicates they want to be hooked so they can get out, I'll oblige. Open the doors for the survivors when gens are finally done after a whole lot of standing around, and hope the next group doesn't have anyone that's lacking a little fortitude. Often I'll get a "gg ty [insert selected killer here] <3" in the chat afterwards. It's pretty much the same for a suicide on hook.

    I don't make any assumptions about whether or not the DCer does this all the time, it's a once in awhile deal for them, or their first time after years of play. It doesn't matter, the end result is the same.

    If they are DCing/suiciding in my matches, barring the rare irl event, it's for a ridiculous or petty reason. I'm about as fair and considerate of a killer that's still (usually) playing to win as you will ever encounter. I don't tunnel or facecamp. I never slug for bleeding someone out unless they just absolutely will not allow me to hook them. I get survivors on their feet if they have been slugged and their teammates won't come to their aid. I have literally dragged survivors off of gens and taken them over to their teammate that they are leaving to die on the hook in hopes they wiggle off and save them. If the survivors I'm playing are struggling, I'll back off and pace myself as needed to keep it a close game to ensure everyone gets a chance to do what they came built to do and everyone gets a fair amount of points. There is no honest reason to quit in my matches and screw everyone over, yet at times it's every third or fourth game.

    And on the soloQ experience. I'm just not seeing it the way some others are. Granted I don't play survivor as much as killer, but I play enough. Do I have bad games? Absolutely. Do I get BM'd by the killer? Bled out? Slugged for the 4k? Tunneled? Camped? Matched with killers that are insurmountably better than myself? Matched with complete potatoes for teammates (even when compared to being a potato survivor myself)? Absolutely. But not every game. Not even most games. I lose more than I win, but even when things are going completely sideways, I still do what I can until the end. Why? Because I have three other teammates that are counting on me, and that's what I signed up for, even if they are potatoes and they themselves don't seem to understand that it's a team role. My worst games as survivor really don't feel any worse than my worst games as killer where I am up against a group of cocky survivors who are miles ahead of me in skill and know it, and decide to spend the match trying their best to demean and humiliate me in any way they can.

    In almost 800 hours of play with all the miserable games that I've had in that time, I have quit exactly once. It was as killer, and it was because I had two survivors quit, a third go afk, and the fourth run up to me and asking me to hook them. At that point why bother as there was no one left that wanted to play the match, so I ended it for all of us.

    So yeah, I have a callous attitude towards the DCer. I'm the one left trying to pick up the pieces after they bail out. And before the inevitable "You're not responsible for other's fun." Maybe not, but I'm not built in a way that I see several people getting screwed over and can just say "Fk it, not my problem" when I can do at least a little to make it not as bad for them.

    honestly you might have even got a gg ty <3 from me at one point, i don't remember all the killers' names but that situation you describe has happened to me quite a few times sporadically; the door is open, i am pointing at a hook cause i didn't feel like i deserved to escape and the killer is shaking their head at me, those are quite the wholesome moments. I am sorry then, I have read every word you wrote there and that is really a good attitude to have. I can relate to it, every word, it was well-written and compelling.

    reading your solo queue experience it does make sense; i had been playing 90% as survivor in the last couple of months and this would often give flurries of good or bad luck, where i might escape or at least survive till EGC for 5 games in a row, but then the rest of the night was awful and i might get 1 hatch escape out of the next 10 games, and slugged 2v1 in many of the rest. it seems like in the end, growing fatigue highlights these issues for both sides. i usually do as you say, keep trying no matter what until the end, though when matches start really badly, it can force me to play more defensively/stealthily. too many of these matches consecutively and i myself can feel like it just isn't worth playing and on rare occasion might just DC.

    it is callous, i agree, in those passing moments of frustration, it is thoughtless to abandon your team, and the only reason i sympathise a bit more with survivors in that position than killers, is because i feel it is more oppressive for them to be the victim, sometimes removing most of a survivor's gameplay. i also hate swf bully squads, i used to get a lot of teams of flashlight clickers and i can sympathise with killers that leave in this situation as well, though i found in those games sometimes i was getting 0 kills but still almost 40k points, compared with 6-25k in a doomed survivor game. i am not denying that some players almost certainly do take advantage and abuse DC/suicides, as i have seen youtube videos about ttv'ers doing it excessively, but i do still think those are the minority.

    my reasoning for disliking the DC penalty originates from being hit by bans from internet DC's stacking, which, once or twice, have led to 15 minute bans when i actually did DC for the first time that day through the esc menu. i'm also not that convinced that it does what it's meant to, discouraging people from just DC'ing if they want has resulted in mass hook suicides which feels like the same result with a less efficient process.

    i apologise, i feel guilt, and i give you my respect, you clearly deserve it at the very least.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @HectorBrando said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246937#Comment_3246937

    Some Killers are the proplayers of Schrodinger, they want to curbstomp and get 4K easily but at the same time want to feel challenged while doing so.

    Before Solo was thrown under the bus when someone suicided/DCd a lot of Killers usually gloated about "thanks for the free win" and "Im not responsible for your fun" but after 6.1 when suicides became a mass ocurrence and a problem (especially against especially busted stuff like Nurse) a lot started to complain they are bored because their wins have no substance and after a ~5 minute wait they get a 2 minutes game they feel let down and decide to punish the offender wasting their time (or not, maybe the guy went AFK and is eating a sandwich in the kitchen while bleeding out).

    Now they want a challenge and you are responsible for my fun.

    it's all just circles, so pointless, you will never solve the problem treating the symptoms

    You are so damn right, I wish BHVR started treating the problems instead of symptons with pointless perk band-aids or penalties.

    i definitely agree, i was playing killer a lot more before 6.1 but since that patch i have lost almost all of my will to do it and became largely survivor main from mid-July. i do think there is potential for positive change, with things like survivor AI coming, and possibly MMR improvements, step by step, but it would really help if they found a better way to normalise the challenge between all the different variables, with killer choice being the most prominent.

    @Sharpefern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246777#Comment_3246777

    Ashes,

    I am not sure you are referring as the killer or as the survivor.

    As the killer- I can do literally nothing to prevent someone from killing on hook. Only think I can do is if they are still in the game not giving them the request of getting hooked if they are saved or accidently Kobe. Which a survivor hooking themselves is not a mechanic in the game. Again they are asking me to let them quit without clicking the quit button. Do something be a threat and I will kill you otherwise you can just quit.

    As a survivor- I know that a 4 v 1 is better than a 3 v 1 even if the fourth person is literally doing NOTHING. They add pressure just for existing. Because the killer has to keep track of them. So stopping them from dying is a benefit to both me and the remaining survivors.

    Either way if the survivor is quitting in a game I, like the devs in the game, would like them to take a break to get into a better mindset. I do not want to play with a survivor as a teammate who just suicided 1 minute into the game to immediately hop into another lobby. Clearly they either do not wish to play the game at the moment or consider certain things that are part of the game worthy of quitting. Either way they are not a reliable teammate.

    hey, i was actually kinda talking about for both sides.

    in most cases, i was one of the 3 survivors who is left there in a match that is now more difficult because it's 3v1, but, i don't think it's actually necessarily more difficult than 4v1 with 1 deadweight that wants out. in many cases i think it's easier with 3 because that 4th guy, might absorb healing, blow up gens, stand around doing nothing, lead the killer onto other survivors, block pallets and windows, maybe because they're just bad, or maybe because psychologically they are thinking 'i really don't want to be in here any more' over and over. at this point, they are already not a reliable teammate before they have even committed the cardinal sin, and are a possible liability, which is part of why i think you guys secretly want to keep them in the game, because you know they're a liability for their own team, even if an afk in the middle of nowhere is theoretically still map pressure. i realised some of this after saving hook suiciders a couple of times, only to have it bite me and then i realised, it's better to just let them do it.

    your final paragraph definitely does have validity, though i think it varies somewhat, because a nurse might break someone's resolve where maybe a nice nemesis match would have been fun for them. either way, a break is probably for the best really, but i'm unsure if you can insist on someone else taking a break when they don't want to, if they just want a fairer match that they actually have a chance in. this is why i think it's a fundamental issue with the game, because difficulty varies so wildly depending on several pRNG and numerous independent player choices as factors.

    i thought, maybe i'll have a glance back at those 'useless' stats, at the pick rates for killers, and add together a few like wesker, nurse, blight, huntress, legion; as these are some that get among the most early quits. those add up to 37% of all matches during that period being against one of those 5, and that's not even all of the major quit-inducing killers.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • nice echo chamber.

    slugging is just a bit of a dirty tactic and can completely snowball a survivor team within 30 seconds; while flashlight save requires quite tight timing hence this buff going in. flashlight saves feel a bit grief to me too honestly, particularly if a killer has really fought hard and spent a lot of time chasing, only to get blinded, that feels pretty dirty. some circumstances where the killer has gotten a very fast, lucky, or life-threatening down, survivors have no choice but to try it if they can.

    slugging can make very short, low points games where even a 4K is less than 20k points for the killer. these games are usually a global depip and 0pip for killer. most of the games that i feel were ruined by early slugging, were when the killer found multiple survivors together and was able to down 1 or 2 very fast due to their rapid movement, and then chased the remaining survivor(s) way off into the distance to get more slugs.

    i can see why you would slug a team full of flashlights that are swarming you, but if it's just one guy and you won't even let him try for a blind; some survivor challenges are blind the killer, you might be denying them a chance at that as well.

    there are other ways to block flashlight saves, even doing a 180 away from the beamer or looking at a wall before picking up can make it impossible for that specific survivor. if a survivor does make an angle for a blind and you then look away, you get points for doing that too it's called blind evasion so you really do not necessarily need to slug their whole team just to pick one guy up. mixing 2xslug with this tends to be the most effective way anyway as hook states are very powerful too so slugging is like the cheap, basic option, which is also why it feels dirty. if those guys you went against were swf then i have no sympathy for them, it's sweat vs sweat.

    slugging for the 4K, even if you saw that last guy run off in that direction but by now he's like 20m away and that's gonna be a decent-length chase; just put the other guy on the hook ffs. i chase till they break line of sight or something, hatch is like the only thing keeping half these survivors in the game after it looks ######### at 3+ gens

    in When is slugging actually "allowed" Comment by Ashes

  • it's pretty sad when you get no skill check for 20 seconds and the exact moment you let go it just explodes like ######### really. yet another 'feature' that removes just a tiny bit more survivor agency, contributing to how ######### solo queue feels. i don't see why it couldn't just save the skillcheck until the moment ANY survivor next interacts with that specific generator, that would make the most sense, like here's a tricky bit of the repair job, cannot progress more until it's done.

    in Leave the gen, get a skillcheck "bug" Comment by Ashes

  • @Sava18 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246868#Comment_3246868

    How does it not ruin my games? There is literally no challenge involved in that game after that. I play this game for the challenge and to get better at it. If they had a string bad games and are willing to just go next after first down, then they didn't really want to play and shouldn't be allowed to get out for free just to ruin another game. Do not play the game if you are willing to hook suicide after your first down. And yes it's fair to waste their time when they are wasting my free time as well. They can DC if they want out or even afk if they are having real life problems. I literally have no idea how people defend this. It's not a fantasy to ask for people to play the game after they hit ready, it's expected. They know what's in the game, they know what to expect.

    with the state of mmr, are you saying it's the responsibility of each and every survivor to ensure that you receive a tailored difficulty experience?

    it's all just circles, so pointless, you will never solve the problem treating the symptoms

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @foxsansbox said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246777#Comment_3246777

    Firstly, I'm not BMing, and until you put forth some evidence beyond your efforts to pervert my words I have no interest in exploring that further.

    Secondly, if you're still not processing, one thing is directly against the TOS and that's why there's a penalty when it's done the legit way (traditional DC). The other thing, the thing you're malding about trying to spew that 2 wrongs don't make a right nonsense, is literally gameplay canon.

    It may be that you can't reconcile this, but thankfully we don't need you to. Everyone else can.

    incorrect as usual, you really are big on one rule for you and a different rule for everyone else. leaving the match is not against TOS, hook suicide is not against TOS, they are both enabled within the game, slugging is also not against TOS, but if you're gonna repeatedly slug someone, that's pretty grief, BM, however you want to phrase it, you're deliberately attempting to cause someone distress and remove their gameplay, holding them hostage, to the point where they disconnect - how can you not see that's completely BM. you admitted these intentions quite openly.

    you and your little 3-man echo chamber can sit there passing round the copium, telling yourselves you aren't terrible, while the community keeps repeating 'solo queue is in the worst state it has ever been'. i wasn't the one that said 2 wrongs don't make a right lol, though it's true, you BM'ing players is not justified by them giving up. you must enjoy kicking people when they are down. malding lol i have a beautiful head of blonde hair, hbu?

    @Sava18 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246777#Comment_3246777

    Small minded? Isn't it small minded that they just give up and make four other players waste their time? I don't play this game to run over survivor's with no resistance, if that were they case I would be running stronger things every game, tunneling every game and camping people to stage two. There is no other video game that allows people to get away with such actions consistently regardless of how hopeless they feel. If you are the first person down, how do you even feel hopeless already? You only know the killer I am playing not even what my build and add-ons are most of the time. It really is funny you call me small minded.

    it can be small-minded to instantly hook suicide, yes, but such can be the mind in moments of distress. how does it waste other peoples' time? you still get a game against possibly 3 players that still want to play, and the fact they actually want to play means they will probably play better than the one who doesn't. so you are saying then that you subscribe to the philosophy 'he ruin my game me want spite him back!'. in that case, you called yourself small-minded. i found it a bit funny that out of all of this, that's what you took. i think i had even written that part before i saw that you had posted something i hadn't read, so i just tacked in that one-liner above the paragraph to which you refer.

    if someone had a string of bad games against weskers, blights and nurses and then they get another game with yet another one of those, found with lethal pursuer in 15 seconds and downed fairly quickly, i think it's quite foreseeable that they might think it's hopeless. nurse audio cues apparently are enough to make a lot of survivors feel hopeless already. maybe more like Lamoore said, if you want someone else's take on the same issue. if it was only those who consistently do it over and over, who i think are really the rare cases, then it would be fine, but you can never know who those are, and the penalty system punishes people immediately even if it was just their internet dropping.

    some games have no restrictions so i don't know why you would fantasize that all games have strict penalties like that, only a few do really, and none of those games are such unbalanced griefing sims like this.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @Maelstrom808 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246382#Comment_3246382

    Innate penalty? Hardly. Let's compare if you DC with no DC penalty vs you getting steamrolled in a bad match.

    DC you lose:

    - 5-10 minutes of time (queuing, lobby, loading, a couple minutes of gameplay before you see you want out.)

    - Items, Addons, Offerings

    - Any BP you would have gained. Getting steamrolled, let's say 10-20k total depending on incentives and offerings.

    Playing the match and getting steamrolled you lose:

    - 10-20 minutes of time (figure all of the above with 5-10 min of gameplay)

    - Items, Addons, Offerings

    - You still get all the BP.

    So by DCing you lose the 10-20k BP which is practically nothing but can gain a half to a full game in the same time so the BP is practically a wash. So really what is the penalty for you for wrecking 3-4 other people's games by DCing if there is no DC penalty?

    so either way then, we can assume a thoroughly unenjoyable game. the way you diminish those things to insignificance portrays the callousness of your attitude. in truth you are looking at even less blood points than you state for staying in a stomping as you suggest, or more if there's actually potential to make it into a decent game.

    so why do you think people should just accept that lose-lose situation surrounding their entire game, not even just the microsituations you killers always whinge about 'oh boohoo i had to get slapped by that pallet i had no choice he used dead hard for distance'. people quit late in matches too, i've seen survivors throw away 40k blood points because the killer did them dirty at the end, for example by slugging and leaving them on the floor while they search the entire map for a 4K. i think people like you just see a DC/suicide every game and think it's always someone who does it every game but the truth is mostly that people will do it once in a while due to bad fortune, BM and the overall state of the solo queue experience. the assorted DC's/suicides every game is because it's a terrible experience, thus it is so common for people to want out.

    @Sharpefern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246474#Comment_3246474

    Ashes,

    What I am saying is

    1) The purpose of the DC penalty is for people quitting.

    2) That intentionally dying is quitting.

    If you have an argument with either of these statements the rest doesnt matter.

    If you want to quit, fine. DC. If you want to play, also fine, I actually prefer it. But if you are going to not do anything that progresses the game forward I am not bothering with you. If you try and be annoying so I kill you, I will just slug you. This is the same thing I do if a survivor is AFK at the start. I am not gonna just take the free hook, until the crows come.

    you seem to ignore the psychology of the game. if there is no competition, there is no game, so creating unwinnable situations and then insisting that people are obliged to suffer and waste their time is truly absurd. letting yourself die on hook is a game mechanic that you are avoiding to purposefully keep someone in the game.

    @foxsansbox said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246355#Comment_3246355

    I don't see anywhere in your response where slugging is 'wrong' in the context it originally appeared in.

    If you need to go off, well, go off queen. There's still only one wrong here and that's the people skirting the DC penalty and trying to reframe the argument as anything other than their personal temper tantrum.

    you lack understanding, unsurprisingly. you're definitely in the wrong to BM people by slugging them, that's just sad.

    @Sava18 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/352487/survivors-killing-themselves-on-hook

    If the game is winnable and it's their first down and they start killing themselves, they are getting slugged for a couple minutes. They are wasting my time in a challenge less game, I will waste theirs on the ground.

    sounds like the game was already challengeless if the player already lost the will to play.


    so now then how exactly does one person giving up ruin the game for each of you, who seem to care so much about your own game and not even remotely about other peoples'? if people are giving up so fast because the game feels hopeless, does that not show fundamental problems with the mechanics of the game, and why is it so common, and why can none of you see beyond the immensely small-minded 'he ruin my game me want spite him back!' the running theme throughout all of what each of you say 'when he BM's it should be a BAN but when I BM i should be celebrated for enforcing the game's intended way of playing!'.

    is your standard for other peoples' gaming experience so low that they should accept having no fun and being just annoyed as the standard for gaming? why do you want to impose a different standard on other people than you want for yourselves?

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @Sharpefern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246382#Comment_3246382

    So we have a fundamental disagreement which is fine. Like I agree with the DC penalty. I don't think anyone wants accidental DCs to be punished but I think there needs to be a deterrent to prevent people from just quitting games against killers or items etc that they don't like. But I do understand the side that doesn't think it should be a thing and thats fine.

    But given that fundamental disagreement we will never see eye to eye on this situation. Because when it comes down to it, intentionally dying for any reason other than tactically (ie giving someone hatch or trying to) is quitting. You are giving up. If there wasnt a dc penalty you could just leave the game and it would be the same as if the killer hooked you or the survivor didn't save you. There would be 0 issue. But there is a penalty for quitting. And I understand and agree with the foundation of that penalty. A survivor trying to die on hook or die period is circumventing that process. Since I agree with the foundation of that process I want them to have to go through the process when they quit as opposed to circumventing it.

    yea pretty much. i disagree fundamentally with the DC penalty and think that a lot of fixes, changes and alternatives that people suggest are just bandaids that do not fix the underlying problems with the game, notably regarding balance. i'm not the first to say it, but treat the illness, not the symptoms.

    if you think about your own statement above, regarding suicide on hook as circumventing the DC penalty, but suicide on hook is a game mechanic, so slugging them and refusing to hook is circumventing that game mechanic. kind of a cyclical argument at this point. to me at least, slugging feels more like grief than hook suicide

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • i'd like to also point out that DC'ing from a game already comes with an innate penalty in that, your time that you have spent so far in that match is wasted, your addons, items and offerings are wasted, you receive 0 points for all of your previous actions, and then a DC penalty is adding insult to injury. obviously this is going to further incentivise hook suicides, which i still think are more problematic for both teams as a player intent on killing themselves remaining in the game rather than just DC'ing causes the others to all adjust their play.

    @Sharpefern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246355#Comment_3246355

    Ashes same question. Do you agree with the DC penalty?

    i've already stated earlier in the thread that i do not agree with DC penalty in general, at least not in current implementation, because it goes too far against people who may disconnect for totally innocent reasons.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • @Sharpefern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245749#Comment_3245749

    So I do want to emphasize that this post is about early game suiciding on hook. and I know that early game is subjective but if you look at the scenario I initially proposed both sides survivor and killer don't think the surrender is justified, because the survivor is still saving the person on hook and the killer is refusing to hook them again. If either of them agree and is like "okay the game is over" you get out of the match no issue. But if both sides are saying "Dude you signed up to play this match with us and we just started. I mean if you want to quit quit but I am not going to take away the consequences of that for you", especially given that the consequences are a time out of when you can hop into another match and potentially just do this to another set of people, then I don't think they are being toxic or malicious. They aren't preventing you from playing the game or making moves or even quitting but are looking out for the community as a whole because both sides are in agreement that this behavior isnt what they want in the community. They are in agreement essentially of why the DC penalty exists and giving the player who's quitting the option of either playing the game they signed up for or quitting and accepting what the game developers decided the penalty for quitting is.

    hard for anyone else to judge aside from the person trying to suicide, given that if the game is over for them, how hard do you think they will try after you decide to force them to stay? they will probably cause problems for the survivor team even if they go afk, i have watched my teammates try to heal afk players numerous times and then get slugged themselves, so be honest, you just like having the extra survivor to give you an advantage, right? a free slug without even needing to slug them.

    @foxsansbox said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246202#Comment_3246202

    Feel free to tell me where leaving someone slugged is wrong after identifying they intend to die on hook and turn the game into a 3v1?

    We all understand that DCing is wrong, hence the penalty. Obviously, taking steps to circumvent the penalty like hook suiciding and afking are also wrong.

    So your sarcasm is cute, but it's a deflection. There is no wrong in showing the brats of this game that they need to take the DC penalty if they want to spoil the game for 4 other people.

    slugging is one of the biggest problems this game has, i rarely saw a hatch spawn for weeks and DC'ed out while slugged in 2v1's several times in my final weeks on the game. you call it sarcasm, but the underlying truth is, you are so full of yourself you would never even consider his opinion, or anyone's, because you have already decided that everyone else's opinions are beneath yours, and that you can do whatever you like and treat people however you like. i'm sure you are well aware of the advantages to the killer, as i have stated above, of keeping a deadweight survivor alive, so don't bs and claim it's just for some ficticious noble goal of teaching people a lesson, as if that's even your place to do. much disrespect to you, for your complete lack of empathy.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • it varies from killer to killer i just didn't bother to specify cause in most cases the higher quality addons overshadow the common ones. the point anyway, you have nearly unlimited access to addons of choice, moreso with killer than as survivor, but for both sides it makes the blood web feel a bit silly sometimes.

    in Why are there so many New Part/Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe add-on(s) now? Comment by Ashes

  • just like you can completely ignore brown addons as a killer as you get far more of the stronger addons than you can ever use

    in Why are there so many New Part/Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe add-on(s) now? Comment by Ashes

  • getting hookbombed out of a game by teammates that refuse to heal me, very common issue when getting matched with poor quality survivors. i think more than overly altruistic, most of them just want the quick unhook points, but it is an instant death sentence to the hopes of escape for the team. maybe they are hatch gamers just trying to sabotage the rest of us, hard to tell, but one of the worst and most common aspects of solo queue gameplay.

    in Let’s talk about how Altruism kills Comment by Ashes

  • @foxsansbox said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245413#Comment_3245413

    In every team game that has ever existed, the selfish person who throws a tantrum and quits early is a brat. That remains true even here.

    It has nothing to do with who I am. We all learned these lessons as children.

    what if the tantrum is just your perception, people have all manner of reasons for leaving. i often have flurries of luck in each direction in solo queue, so most of the time it will be several unwinnable games in a row leading to me DC'ing and closing, or maybe a suicide, if i happened to be hooked right away due to some level of misfortune (or misplay, as a result of my increasingly weary mindset). regardless, if i kept playing at that point, when i feel the game is already lost, then i would probably play absolutely terribly, which might really only make it harder for my team if i stay. 'this is not fun, i'm gonna play something else'.

    @tippy2k2 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245413#Comment_3245413

    How is someone who wants to quit a minute into the match ruining the match? You serious Clark? You're lying to yourself or something if you can't see how someone trying to take themselves out of the game right away isn't ruining the match for the other four players.

    If that makes me a "cretin", "egomaniac" and/or a "psychopath" to let them taste a bit of their own medicine, then so be it. They're still absolutely free to DC if they want to.

    my point here is that the game is really already ruined, because that person's will to play on is shot, and with the current state of balance, i can see how peoples' willpower gets smashed quickly in solo queue. if this wasn't the case, suicides and DC's wouldn't be so common, but your method is so vindictive and really only compounds the problem. i don't know if killer queue times are long rn or not but if they are, well, this would only be one contributing factor of many.

    @Sharpefern said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245413#Comment_3245413

    I 100% understand having a bad time with DBD and not wanting to play the game for a while and that does feel bad. But if that's the case the DC timer for quitting the game means nothing for you because it will definitely be over by the time you're in a better mindset, cooled off, etc. because if you are queuing up for survivor you have 3 other survivors you are agreeing to work with and the game is balanced at starting off a 4v1. Doing this in a mindset that you just quit because you're hating the match you're in or the game you're playing is disrespectful to them.

    If you want to quit the game that is fine and there is a system in place to try to ensure that the next time you play you will be wanting to play. But if you are asking the killer to kill you, you are asking to bypass that system. And I don't think saying "No you are unbalancing the game for the others playing" and requiring you to take the consequences of a DC is outside of reason. If nothing else it gives a cooling off period. And if you start playing that game again, doing gens again etc, the killer will most likely treat you like an opponent again and hook you if able.

    i appreciate this definitely, and you'd be right to assume that the DC penalty rarely affects me personally, but i'd still refer to my statements above, emphasising player morale vs efficacy as a team member, and the implications that holds for whether a match is already hopeless. further consider those situations where people suicide specifically because of their teammates; maybe a bit rash and impulsive, but seeing teammates that have already clearly given up (hiding in a distant corner running in a circle?) is fairly motivating to pull a hook suicide. i'm always hoping for a fair match-up, but i have often gone through several bad games with top tier killers - nurse>spirit>blight>wesker>nurse - then i start hoping for a trapper or something for an easier game, but then you know what you get, another wesker instead. you can't know what kind of match it will be ahead of time, and balance varies so wildly.


    i always feel pangs of guilt while arguing, i'm not here to upset people, but i feel most of these issues, at heart, are systemic to DbD and trying to blame and punish individual players, in many cases, will only push them out of the game entirely. i know it's hard to track the difference between an alt-f4 and a network interruption DC but surely if someone is hitting escape then quit, that should be easy to track, and when a player is doing this particularly frequently, that would form a better basis to work from when administering punishments. hook suicide is a bit more complicated and creates problems in itself for both sides, predominantly the survivors. while there is still the ability to do this, and it might be the only means for a player to 'escape' a bad match, players will continue to do it. focusing your ire on the player for doing it ignores that BHVR has left this as a binary choice for players, where you either struggle on, or give up.

    in Survivors killing themselves on hook Comment by Ashes

  • i speculated this was happening because the halloween event brought more activity to the game and so it was more likely people would fill in the bonus side more quickly. pretty sure when i've repeat queued i did not get the bonus after the first match and no bonus on solo queue survivor, for me = probably gonna play a different game, due to the imbalance in how easy it is to earn BP on each side.

    in Losing bonus after one match? Comment by Ashes

  • @steezo_de said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/352060/i-feel-like-solo-q-is-a-nightmare-because-of-swf

    Once you get in higher ranks, that won't often happen unless you're being selfish. Then yeah, they'll sandbag you.

    It could be that you're at a skill level that your teammates don't have the experience to know what to do for every situation.

    this does still happen at high ranks because mmr will throw 10k hour players in with 200 hour players. my last 3 games before Iri 1 last month were an absolute mess, with awful survivors on my team compared to the great teammates i had for a few games before that. there is no way i could have dropped mmr out of those earlier games, and then i was stuck with the worst teammates straight after. i impressed the killers being the last alive in those few games, soloing generators and escaping through the gates, or looping till the spirit decided he respected my play and just let me open the door. final game was a double pip with all Iri emblems but again, it relied somewhat on killer mercy as otherwise i would surely have lost my unbroken iri when it was 1v1

    there are just so many random factors that can break a solo queue team, even morale is at stake from the outset of a solo match, with the crack of the nurse being enough to break the resolve of many, who may actually feel somewhat traumatised from the strings of bad games they've had before.

    being stuck with an SWF, sure sometimes they've been helpful and we've cooperated very well, but i have been betrayed a lot of times by them as well, the worst being a couple weeks ago when i 99'ed a door then unhooked their SWF pal while they healed, only to have them deliberately dodge hatchets while the other 2 were still uninjured and i was trying to get them to take a hit (no expose). the 3 of them just ran straight out the door. i had done half the generators in that match, a little looping, and me and the SWF mikaela were both 0hook at this point. maybe they were just so unconfident in their ability to save me, they all had decent hours played so i really think they were just kinda bad and didn't care to even try to save me in return.

    in I feel like solo q is a nightmare because of SWF Comment by Ashes

  • had a kill the obsession challenge, map was RPD, equipped rancor, Yun-jin p60 was the obsession. i had 2-hooked everyone except Yun-jin and the 4 of them were teabagging in the exit gate, so i went straight for her, picked her up and rancored her just inside the map. the lobby was full of laughter spam after the match

    in So why do survivors not get punished for not leaving Comment by Ashes

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351884/solo-q-needs-a-less-stiff-dc-penalty

    You left teammates DCing off the list funnily enough. I see so many high level players DC because they aren't happy with their teammates. And it's tanked several very winnable games for me and my swf team. Imo DC penalties should be much harsher, if only they could tell genuine disconnects from ragequits. Even if killer is tunneling or facecamping at 5 gens. It happens. Just do your best then onto the next game.

    What they should really do is improve soloq, ping system, let us see each other's perks. VC for God's sake.

    i gotta ask, do you treat your solo teammate well? my experience being the solo with an SWF of 3 is that they will 100% sacrifice the solo player every time even just for a laugh. i witnessed this in the worst way too by streamsnipiing a ginger TTV teammate of mine once who joked about this before sandbagging me, and i heard the awful, baseless things he was saying about me and the killer, not even based on how we were playing, just random insults.

    overall i think implementing those improvements to solo queue should come first, there really seems like no sense punishing people to me, while there are such glaring flaws with how solo queue functions relative to how the game is supposedly balanced

    @Maelstrom808 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239866#Comment_3239866

    Yes, I do want to hold those people in game, to the point that they either get over it and play out their games as intended or go play something else. I play soloQ, been in plenty of lost causes for matches, had plenty of potato teammates (even more so than myself), faced plenty of the "unfun" killers. I still stick it out to gain what points I can and give us whatever chance I can or if the team is toast, give myself whatever chance i can. That's the game.

    If they want to ruin it for four other people because they don't like how the match is going, play something else. I can be and am sympathetic for a lot of things in the game. Giving up over the smallest things not going your way is not one of them.

    a bit like stockholm syndrome?

    for me it's the other way around, i get stuck in a string of hopeless games where i'm the only one who has finished a generator and hook bombs are rife, and it just wears on me more and more until i'm like NO MORE PLEASE FFS DBD SUX leaves

    in Solo q needs a less stiff dc penalty Comment by Ashes

  • @Maelstrom808 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239866#Comment_3239866

    Yes, I do want to hold those people in game, to the point that they either get over it and play out their games as intended or go play something else. I play soloQ, been in plenty of lost causes for matches, had plenty of potato teammates (even more so than myself), faced plenty of the "unfun" killers. I still stick it out to gain what points I can and give us whatever chance I can or if the team is toast, give myself whatever chance i can. That's the game.

    If they want to ruin it for four other people because they don't like how the match is going, play something else. I can be and am sympathetic for a lot of things in the game. Giving up over the smallest things not going your way is not one of them.

    a bit like stockholm syndrome?

    for me it's the other way around, i get stuck in a string of those hopeless games where i'm the only one who has actually finished a generator and hook bombs are rife, it just wears on me more and more to the point where i get a game that's cursed within the first 30 seconds and i'm like NO MORE PLEASE FFSSSS DBD SUX leaves

    in Solo q needs a less stiff dc penalty Comment by Ashes

  • @Yatol said:

    DC? i dont want to c you

    You want to disconnect? how about uninstalling?

    Go next? go play another game

    rage quit? how about perma quit

    can't play this? can't play this game

    want out? i want you out of this game

    a wild psychopath appears!

    in Solo q needs a less stiff dc penalty Comment by Ashes

  • @Omans said:

    There are so many ways to sandbag, be toxic, or make the opposing side miserable in this game. Too bad the devs are quite slow at remedying that.

    it's like the game is built around it. a lot of games have been called griefing simulators in the past, but i think dead by daylight has to be the absolute king of griefing sims. this is why i think i'm probably about done with this game

    in Worse than the killer slugging for the 4k Comment by Ashes

  • it's confusing af as well when you're getting rotatoed 180 degrees in each direction because 2 hook bomb survivors are playing the unhook game with a crafty killer

    in Now that flashlight spam is gone... Comment by Ashes

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239522#Comment_3239522

    What's the disease?

    Again, I see as many DCs if I play nice as someone does when they camp.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239585#Comment_3239585

    Name three.

    speculatively, you see as many DC's as someone does when they camp, which you magically know with your hag crystal ball, so that's 2 DC's in every game you play. are you nurse/blight main?

    @DemonDaddy said:

    Solo is at its best right now and anyone that decides to dc deserves the wait. The only solo survivor complaint that I consider to hold any weight is sbmm needs to be fixed.

    you just get a lol

    @Pulsar said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239459#Comment_3239459

    Yeah, that's just normal DBD.

    Hear a Nurse? Multiple DC's.

    See a Pinhead? They're out.

    Legion? Same thing.

    I saw more DC's but less hook suicides. The actual amount of games being ruined was the same.

    this, more suicides, so many suicides, let's see, hook suicide means killer still has to move the player to a hook which takes time, while if they just DC killer can go straight to look for other survivors. Survivors may also make rough, dangerous plays to save the suicider, taking hits and getting hooked themselves, while if they had DC'ed, other survivors would just get free points for being abandoned. it really doesn't make that much difference which way someone is getting out of the game, the fact is, a lot of sadists want to hold others in a game against their will.

    in Solo q needs a less stiff dc penalty Comment by Ashes

  • is this supposed to be a party game?

    in DC Penalty in 2022 Comment by Ashes

  • i still love OTR for solo queue, it's tunneling protection above all but the muted injury noises is really the best aspect of it and you can work on gens or whatever and keep that. i still don't think it's overpowered because the only reason i need that muted injury is because in solo queue i get unhook-bombed so often or alternatively a lot of my teammates go entire games without healing anyone but themselves and if i didn't have the muted injury i would be a free tunnel kill in many situations. most games i am the only survivor using it, and i don't use it for swf it's just a bandaid for solo queue.

    in So when is the inevitable OTR nerf coming? Comment by Ashes

  • i think it's a bit sad that this kind of thread is always filled with hateful comments about people who give up, from people who are too smallbrain to understand why giving up is so common. maybe you're right, just don't boot the game up, then with how frequently unbalanced DbD is, i expect this logic to result in a huge decline in the size of the community.

    if a random stranger told you to just sit here and do nothing for 15 minutes, or worse, they told you to sit there and watch a tv show you hate with a presenter who turned out to be a nonce, for 15 minutes, would you just do it because they told you that you had to?

    ultimately there's no fix for suicide on hook, if a player does that, that is terminal for that character. on the other hand, if DC bans weren't a thing and survivor bots were, then people could just leave a game they hate rather than actively sabotaging the team.

    it's my free time and i'll leave a ######### game if i want to.

    edit to add: i wanted to point out, i don't leave or suicide many games, probably around 1 in 30+, but there are a lot of factors and sometimes i'm fed up and will just completely close DbD because i'm not enjoying it. if most people feel that way sometimes, and take the logic of just not booting up DbD in future, watch those numbers dwindle, so it feels like really poor logic to assume it's the individual and not DbD itself that is the cause.

    alternatively, try balancing this game, something i no longer think is possible, with so many variables every match.

    in suiciding teammates Comment by Ashes

  • idk i have mega doubts in a lot of what people say, view players on steam? well that actually does not work for 80% of players due to their own privacy settings beyond DbD, it also definitely does not work on hackers, when you click a hacker in the lobby i think some of them (but not all, probably depends which hack program they bought?) can block some options from showing for you because sometimes i have clicked them and had absolutely nothing come up, no report, no view profile, block or add friend, nothing, and that was on an extremely blatant 'subtle' hacker that was on my team

    either way, view players only shows me about 1/5 of the people i play with

    in I was told this was a bug by the Anonymous hacker! Comment by Ashes

  • had a mikaela never hooked, she didn't do much all game and at the end after i saved another teammate and took a hit for them, i tried to hide behind mikaela as we ran toward the exit but she dodged the hatchet so it hit me and then the 3 of them just left me to die on my first hook, even though 2 of them weren't even injured! turns out they were a low-quality swf that i carried (i was still top on points), so obviously they didn't care slightly about the solo queue random.

    in never hooked teammates are the worse Comment by Ashes

  • i would play less selfishly after hitting Iri 1, not that i will put enough time into this game to reach that grade any more. depipping to bs reasons out of your control is fairly irritating as well. i thought depipping could be blocked if nobody gets enough points or something

    in Red ranks Comment by Ashes

  • zoinks

    in I'm excited about the new knight killer because... Comment by Ashes

  • you had a whole map to run around and you chose to run into one of the 2 zombies? zombie speed is affected by addons, they are so slow baseline

    in Nemesis needs his zombies to be nerfed Comment by Ashes

  • what i love to do to nurses, is hug the other side of awkward corners and as she blinks swap around to the side she was on, often get nurses eating a lot of walls this way but if the nurse is a pro, they're just gonna blink again and get you anyway

    in Nurse HAS counterplay, learn it Comment by Ashes

  • i love how nemmy plays currently, i think they should balance the entire game around the sort of power level he is currently at. the zombies can be pretty annoying to the survivors even in their current state, especially with some of the speed addons, the only issue is when their pathing breaks.

    in More Zombies? Comment by Ashes

  • while i don't advocate DC'ing because of the map or the killer specifically, i do think it's something to consider about the quality of life, balance, and possible levels of enjoyment in the game with such wiildly varying factors. it makes me think that the game is not meant to be balanced but rather to arbitrarily give one side a major advantage over the other. simply considering a lot of the killers' toolkits and how these fare on maps of differing sizes makes it obvious how variable the difficulty is. take pyramid head as an example, he's not that strong but has good antiloop and a little ranged attack that can get through walls, but put him on a large, open map against skilled survivors and he is quite struggles, whereas on an indoor map, it's almost an auto-4K. i think this definitely contributes to pick rates of certain killers considering some killers are much more versatile, and the majority of maps are outside, which is bad news for our pal pyramid head.

    regardless, if the game is not meant to be balanced, it will undeniably result in players feeling like things are not fair and more likely that leaving the match is the better choice rather than negative fun for the next 15 minutes. what if the previous matches were also heavily stacked against them? a few days ago, i had a few rounds in a row where i scored highest on my team despite being the only one dead at the end, because none of my team wanted to risk themselves saving me after i had just saved them. this left me feeling a bit sour and then my last game, map loaded, i stopped to drink for 10 seconds and before i could put the cap back on my bottle, i had been slapped by a deathslinger, who then shot and reeled me in. now that is purely bad luck, he must have spawned pretty close to me and probably even had lethal pursuer. i just left the game, i couldn't be bothered any more, the few games before had been not much fun and this was an awful start, so i went and played ghostbusters instead.

    go on, tell me i'm a terrible person for leaving the game, go ahead, i don't care if anyone thinks that. this is not a concentration camp, we pay to play a game, it should not feel like suffering to play it.

    in Why are DC bans still a thing? Comment by Ashes

  • @Akumakaji said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237210#Comment_3237210

    Hello, thanks for taking note of my post, I'll gladly give a bit more info.

    When I said "I sometimes see 3-4 DH and I don't care", this needs to be contextualised with old DH stranglehold on the game and how oppressive it was.

    Old DH made you die a little inside each time the survivors danced on your nose, BMed you, greeded palettes like mad and then DH to safety absolutely risk free.

    In the higher reaches of the MMR the perk had a solid 75% pick rate, so a game with 3 DH wasn't something to take note of, it was the expect norm, and it was terrible.

    BHVR did something that most of us, myself included, deemed impossible: break DH stranglehold on the game and nerfing it WITHOUT making it utterly useless. Most players, killers as also survivors, will tell you now that the perk feels fair and fun to use.

    It's now much harder to use then before, as the margin of error and opportunity to mess up is very big, but so is the payoff.

    What distinguishes of from new DH is that it now demands skill to use and has counterplay, something that was basically impossible before. When breathing down a survivors neck, but you know that they have DH, it becomes a test of nerves and a mindgame in itself. Sometimes the survivors lose their nerves and DH ineffective and rather comically in the open field and you send them to the floor for it, at other times your bloodlust gets the better of you, you swing the moment the survivor comes within range and they DH through your swing and run off into the sunset. That's what a perfectly healthy perk should look like.

    DH is still much better then the other exhaustion perks, that's why you still see it so often in high MMR, but the other exhaustion perks have become more valuable then before because of their ease of use. And I guess that I see the backside of a survivor leaving me in the dust equal as much with Lithe or Balanced Landing.

    i think you might struggle to get some of these assertions past a large portion of the survivor community. DH sometimes feels fine, but, it depends on so many factors, most of which are out of the survivor's control. i played killer a good deal before the nerf to DH, and i know what it's like to have old DH stacked with flashlights and head on with an swf, but the way they nerfed it has made it far too vulnerable to things like latency and even the killer's decision-making. waiting out dead hard is more powerful than ever, it was already an effective counterplay, but now that you only have to wait half a second, you can read it even more easily. i always felt while playing as a killer, that the problem was it only has 40 sec exhaustion when it should have more like 2-3 (maybe even more?) minutes, or maybe just a 1-use perk like unbreakable.


    i still see a lot of people using dead hard as well, but i often see these people taking hits and going down without any successful dead hards a worryingly large amount of the time. i practised new dead hard for a few hours weeks and weeks ago, and started soaking the hits with it, but i found it often only worked once on intelligent killers, as they would start just waiting it out after they had discovered my perk choice, and then i got hit a few times through dead hard, with latency as the likely cause. so i decided it just isn't reliable enough for me to commit a perk slot to, when lithe or balanced give me a guaranteed effect. i don't choose these perks because they're 'easy to use', i choose, generally lithe, because it will always do what it says it'll do.

    in Current Dead Hard is fine...with one glaring exception Comment by Ashes

  • @Akumakaji said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351615/current-dead-hard-is-fine-with-one-glaring-exception

    I also feel that DH is back at the top of the perk food chain, with some matches sporting 3 or 4 DHs and the survivors all know how to use it, but nowadays I hardly care. Its not like back in the days, when survivors danced on your nose all game and then, when you should have rightfully cornered them, just DH to safety while you died a little inside.

    Yes, you have to have DH in the back of your mind when you chase a bunch of survivors and can't mindlessly flail away all the time, but often it's rather obvious when they are trying to use it.

    I give it to you, the perfectly timed DH in front of a palette feels like a lose/lose situation, but it's rare enough that it doesn't effect me every game, and I guess such a moment of triumph for the survivors for a well executed move isn't a bad thing. How often do you get a survivor juuuuuuuuust with the tip of your weapon when they vault the shack and you feel that flush of triumph yourself? We can't just take all this cool moments away from the game, unless we want it to be hollowed out and left as a husk, devoid of any surprises or excitement.

    doesn't all of this suggest that even though DH is popular and people try to use it, it just doesn't really do what it's supposed to in a lot of situations? 3 or 4 dead hards and you don't care because it's not a big threat, it's obvious when they're trying to use it, perfectly timed DH in front of a pallet is rare enough that it doesn't affect you every game. sorry to steal your words, it's just to me this paints a picture of a perk that can't compete with a lot of other top choices, and i so frequently see brazen survivors on my team go in with dead hard and just get downed without managing to soak a hit with it. i did spend hours learning to dead hard properly, escaping a few times directly because of it, but i still found it unreliable, with the latency hits pushing it fully out of contention for anything other than a protection build personally.

    in Current Dead Hard is fine...with one glaring exception Comment by Ashes

  • since the bloodpoint requirements nerf to the web, i feel that even new killers have way overabundant supplies of rare addons. i mostly played with yellow or green addons as killer as i already felt too powerful with these when playing as a strong killer such as spirit

    in mother daughter ring + cherry blossom (turn your brain off and play) Comment by Ashes

  • in the first few days of halloween update i didn't actually realise there was no DC penalty, because it seemed pretty normal and still a lot of suicide on hook

    in Why are DC bans still a thing? Comment by Ashes

  • i consider nemesis to be the best-balanced killer, everyone stronger is OP and everyone weaker is too weak, go figure that means 60% of killers are OP to some degree yet i still get an awful lot of 4k's with 'weak' (as my friends say) nemesis.

    wesker is a top 5 killer

    in Wesker is too strong Comment by Ashes

  • I leave games when killers play dirty or hold us hostage. the problem is that survivors in solo queue can lose the entire game within the first minute due to bad luck spawns and/or lethal pursuer, and that can result in a drawn-out game where you get farmed and have no chance to turn the game around. the same can happen the other way, but only with a squad of gen-rush perks, which in solo queue, is much less likely than a killer stacking meta perks on top of bad luck starts affecting survivors more heavily than killers, AND, this results in shorter games rather than longer hostage games.

    MMR is still a complete trainwreck. matches frequently put players with 100 hours in together with people with 5,000 hours and it's ridiculous.

    if BHVR is so incompetent that they can't pit people of similar experience against each other, then you really have no right to double-punish people for leaving a game that is negative fun to play. DOUBLE-PUNISH, because you lose your items, addons, offerings, blood points, grade pips and the time you spent queueing and loading into the unbalanced game, only to then be banned for 5 minutes on top of the previously mentioned punishments.

    maybe i'm just done with this game, because most of the time it's just not very fun, balance rests on a needle-point and the randomness of solo queue is easily enough to tip it toward the killer 80% of the time.

    this comes after doing solo queue to Iri 1 a few weeks ago, and yea, not a fun experience. while higher MMR makes solo queue more bearable, it just approaches a point of balance and never quite gets there, because even if you get a decent solo queue team, other factors can make the game near impossible to escape, like luck-based spawn locations as well as certain maps favouring certain killers (which can also go the other way).

    in Why are DC bans still a thing? Comment by Ashes

  • in games where killers camp and tunnel, i usually note that across the board points are low, whereas when i play killer and get a 0K but loads of chase interaction, downs and hooks, i might still get 35k points; i don't feel like those cheap strats are really very rewarding. Similar for slugging honestly! 3K vs 4K points difference is not that big! With that in mind, i would guess most sluggers do it for the chance at 2xpips.

    in Gen rushing = Camping/tunneling Comment by Ashes

  • is it any consolation to you that you got more points than 3/4 of their team? if it went the other way and killer crushes survivors, they would all be close to or under 20k and you would be close to 40k. those high prestige levels vs a p3 killer is the unfair part imo /blame MMR.

    just saw they all brought streamers too, you should be thanking them and rolling out the red carpet for their escape :D

    in How can anyone enjoy themselves playing a game that is absolutely unwinnable? Comment by Ashes

  • killers demanding 4k every game is the real entitled. gen speeds are too fast atm but killers are in a very efficient state overall as well. some killers are just way too efficient while others have been left behind due to all the crazy perks and changes that have gone in over the lifespan of DbD so far, obviously trapper heavily affected.

    in Gen rushing = Camping/tunneling Comment by Ashes
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