You're not entirely wrong, at least regarding BBQ. But Behaviour have made their stance pretty clear that they don't want perks to have an artificially boosted pick rate entirely due to "external" factors (factors that go beyond the trial.)
I think the "good boy hooks" from 9.5.0 PTB were a good idea. A small additive BP reward for playing "nice." I think the bloodlust gain wasn't great though: it was useless on like 80% of killers and didn't even do a good job of stopping high tiers. While Blight and Ghoul couldn't use the bloodlust, the likes of Spirit and Singularity could, and they don't need buffs when compared to Trapper or Ghostface.
Which is low-key kinda disappointing because the BP thing I get but ace in the hole like perks is such interesting design space but I doubt we're ever getting anything like it ever again.
I get the sentiment but having to run perks for BP is slapping a band-aid over a bullet hole. BP gains should be increased across the board and transparency about the BP economy (quest rewards, codes, Anniv Cake debacle) should be prioritized. As someone who ran BBQ every single game for YEARS because of the BP bonus, I would love if it never came back so I have the freedom for build diversity.
As said BP gains need to be boosted in general. The amount of killers and survs you have to unlock goes up more and more to ridiculous numbers of BP needed.
I am glad i have everything on 6+ on PC and everything except 13 killers on 6+ on PS5. I really don´t know if i would start playing DbD if i had to start from 0 again.
As said BP gains need to be boosted in general. The amount of killers and survs you have to unlock goes up more and more to ridiculous numbers of BP needed.
I am glad i have everything on 6+ on PC and everything except 13 killers on 6+ on PS5. I really don´t know if i would start playing DbD if i had to start from 0 again.
We are at the point where we have Bulk Spending because people accumulated so many BPs that it took so long to do the Bloodwebs. Back when BBQ and WGLF had their BP effects you could not even get a single Bloodweb done after a game, so I dont think that BP gains need to be boosted that much. Category caps should be removed, but thats about it.
I loved the bbq meta, the killer always found someone after hooking so there was much less of an incentive to end chase and tunnel.
Not really. As long as the Killer still got their rewards (BP stacks) after tunneling, there was not really an incentive to go after others. If BBQ would have stopped giving stacks after one Survivor is dead, it would have been way more healthy and then I would agree. But if the Killer can just tunnel someone out and still get full stacks, there is not much of an incentive.
@Topic:
It would not really make the game more healthy. As I said above, as long as the Killer can get full stacks despite tunneling, there would be nothing which would make the game more healthy. WGLF providing stacks would also not lead to healthy gameplay, if anything it would lead to hook rushing and taking stupid protection hits.
It is good how it is. WGLF and BBQ are taken for their effects and are not used on everyone for a few bonus BPs. Plus people would feel forced again to bring those Perks just to not miss out. And as I said earlier, the BP economy is way better nowadays than it was when BBQ and WGLF still provided stacks.
BBQ is not some magic bullet that makes killers not tunnel. It only cares about hooking each survivor at least once so killers can still quite easily tunnel out 1 survivor before starting to spread hooks.
Plus bloodpoint game is much better now than it was back when BBQ improved bloodpoint. Many killers are not going to chose to run BBQ and not tunnel for extra bloodpoints.
not fond of bribing people to use certain loadouts but if it were to happen i would much rather there be some kind of 'perk of the week/month' system where a random/curated pool of perks has the incentive
could be used to highlight perks not in the meta that bhvr think deserve a second look from the community
I like your idea, I loed the BBQ and WGLF meta but
Counter offer
BP incentive for lower pick rate perks on a rotation weekly?
Heck make it
"Shrine Boost"
Current shrine perks gain a small multiplier to BP. Which might also encentivize people trying to find perks that work well with the shrine perks(though make it so the BP boost is tied to 1/1 perk requirement)
thats a thing with friends to the end rn anyways, no difference
They HAVE released others tracking perks that have other activation requirements though. Back in the day, you could basically assume everyone was running BBQ. Even if they're running Friends like you mentioned, your not assuming anything since it basically announces itself to the 1 person its effecting.
They HAVE released others tracking perks that have other activation requirements though. Back in the day, you could basically assume everyone was running BBQ. Even if they're running Friends like you mentioned, your not assuming anything since it basically announces itself to the 1 person its effecting.
"Back in my day the only tracking perk was BBQ ya young bloods don't understand what the other sp called tracking perks were l- ooo someone's in my basement territory value"
Don't ask where this came from I know not why my lexicon said to type this
"Back in my day the only tracking perk was BBQ ya young bloods don't understand what the other sp called tracking perks were l- ooo someone's in my basement territory value"
Don't ask where this came from I know not why my lexicon said to type this
I do wish that spreading hooks was incentivized like old BBQ did, but I don't see BHVR ever going back to perks giving bonus BP. I still miss old Distressing which helped me max out Deviousness faster.
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks before getting a kill that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
I get the sentiment but having to run perks for BP is slapping a band-aid over a bullet hole. BP gains should be increased across the board and transparency about the BP economy (quest rewards, codes, Anniv Cake debacle) should be prioritized. As someone who ran BBQ every single game for YEARS because of the BP bonus, I would love if it never came back so I have the freedom for build diversity.
Middle-point: Basekit WGLF and BBQ's old BP quests without the perks.
Those quests create a win-condition without requiring the opponent loses, and I fully believe that that is incredibly healthy, and that its removal did way more damage than people realise.
I do wish that spreading hooks was incentivized like old BBQ did, but I don't see BHVR ever going back to perks giving bonus BP. I still miss old Distressing which helped me max out Deviousness faster.
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
I mean, you hopefully mean as long as all 4 Survivors are alive, do you?
Because otherwise it would just be a free Bonus for Killer, since they would just tunnel someone out and then basically maximize their own BPs because they cannot lose at this point.
Middle-point: Basekit WGLF and BBQ's old BP quests without the perks.
Those quests create a win-condition without requiring the opponent loses, and I fully believe that that is incredibly healthy, and that its removal did way more damage than people realise.
Agreed, I think any improvement to the base BP economy would be a net boon to the community and I love the idea of ingame rewards/incentives for a certain playstyle
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
I mean, you hopefully mean as long as all 4 Survivors are alive, do you?
Because otherwise it would just be a free Bonus for Killer, since they would just tunnel someone out and then basically maximize their own BPs because they cannot lose at this point.
We are at the point where we have Bulk Spending because people accumulated so many BPs that it took so long to do the Bloodwebs. Back when BBQ and WGLF had their BP effects you could not even get a single Bloodweb done after a game, so I dont think that BP gains need to be boosted that much. Category caps should be removed, but thats about it.
Not really. As long as the Killer still got their rewards (BP stacks) after tunneling, there was not really an incentive to go after others. If BBQ would have stopped giving stacks after one Survivor is dead, it would have been way more healthy and then I would agree. But if the Killer can just tunnel someone out and still get full stacks, there is not much of an incentive.
@Topic:
It would not really make the game more healthy. As I said above, as long as the Killer can get full stacks despite tunneling, there would be nothing which would make the game more healthy. WGLF providing stacks would also not lead to healthy gameplay, if anything it would lead to hook rushing and taking stupid protection hits.
It is good how it is. WGLF and BBQ are taken for their effects and are not used on everyone for a few bonus BPs. Plus people would feel forced again to bring those Perks just to not miss out. And as I said earlier, the BP economy is way better nowadays than it was when BBQ and WGLF still provided stacks.
The bulk spending is mostly used by pretty hardcore or long time players. I was talking about new players.
The average match without an event is often maybe 15k-40k (with cakes) for them. We need like 440 Million BP at the moment for P3.
I think as veteran you can´t imagine normal players anymore. Regular match BPs needs a boost - especially for new players, longterm players don´t care much anymore.
As Doctor i used Distressing which also had a nice BP Bonus. I remember i was pretty sad when they removed it.
The bulk spending is mostly used by pretty hardcore or long time players. I was talking about new players.
The average match without an event is often maybe 15k-40k (with cakes) for them. We need like 440 Million BP at the moment for P3.
I think as veteran you can´t imagine normal players anymore. Regular match BPs needs a boost - especially for new players, longterm players don´t care much anymore.
As Doctor i used Distressing which also had a nice BP Bonus. I remember i was pretty sad when they removed it.
Still you only need to P1 characters to get access to the perks. Going over that is not needed only thing P2 and P3 does is make the perks automatically unlocked on tier 2 and 3 on other characters. You can still get perks to tier 3 using the bloodweb on other characters after you P1 another character.
Still you only need to P1 characters to get access to the perks. Going over that is not needed only thing P2 and P3 does is make the perks automatically unlocked on tier 2 and 3 on other characters. You can still get perks to tier 3 using the bloodweb on other characters after you P1 another character.
Ah yeah, right. I forgot :-)
Then it is still like 147 Million BPs. Still huge imo.
The effects should honestly be basekit. Unique hooking someone grants bonus BP, which is removed if you hook the same survivor immediately after. Unhooking a survivor grants bonus BP, which is removed if it isn't a safe unhook. Taking protection hits & getting saves also increases BP gain. Caps out at a bonus of, say, 300% (with each "trigger" granting 25% post-game).
This would incentivise unique hooking, and continuing the hook cycle, encouraging 12 hook games over bleeding out and actually giving killers a reason to hook and deal with the DS/DH/Shoulder etc that comes with not just slugging. Moreover, it would incentivise survivors to play altruistically, taking hits, getting saves, and most crucially not doing generators. The BP being tied to perks kinda sucked - BBQ is to this day my most used killer perk ever despite me not running it since 6.1.0 in 20212 - because you'd know everyone was using the perks, and you'd feel forced to use the perks - but I genuinely believe that a lot of the more casual players just need another reason to hook (in general), and cycle 12 hooks. Instead of punishing "less desirable" gameplay strategies (ie. holding gens for 65 seconds before attempting an unhook & slugging/tunnelling/camping) we should encourage the "more desirable" strategies instead
The effects should honestly be basekit. Unique hooking someone grants bonus BP, which is removed if you hook the same survivor immediately after. Unhooking a survivor grants bonus BP, which is removed if it isn't a safe unhook. Taking protection hits & getting saves also increases BP gain. Caps out at a bonus of, say, 300% (with each "trigger" granting 25% post-game).
This would incentivise unique hooking, and continuing the hook cycle, encouraging 12 hook games over bleeding out and actually giving killers a reason to hook and deal with the DS/DH/Shoulder etc that comes with not just slugging. Moreover, it would incentivise survivors to play altruistically, taking hits, getting saves, and most crucially not doing generators. The BP being tied to perks kinda sucked - BBQ is to this day my most used killer perk ever despite me not running it since 6.1.0 in 2021 - because you'd know everyone was using the perks, and you'd feel forced to use the perks - but I genuinely believe that a lot of the more casual players just need another reason to hook (in general), and cycle 12 hooks. Instead of punishing "less desirable" gameplay strategies (ie. holding gens for 65 seconds before attempting an unhook & slugging/tunnelling/camping) we should encourage the "more desirable" strategies instead
I agree with you, but sadly some people claim
Tunneling will still happen so because it will still happen it won't work. But let's be honest unless you straight up make it impossible that croud won't be happy because tunneling will still happen.
Tunneling will still happen so because it will still happen it won't work. But let's be honest unless you straight up make it impossible that croud won't be happy because tunneling will still happen.
There will always be this group who will do so.
True, but it isn't like giving a BP incentive for unique hooks is going to make tunneling more common either.
It'd just be a nice feature that does double duty of hopefully making Tunneling a bit less common tactic, and reducing the grind.
Oh I'm not disagreeing, I just wanted to let them know that they should be prepared for the potential backlash from said individuals.
I loved old BBQ and WGLF bonus because it could potentially promote a decent game rythym.
I appreciate the concern, but don't worry about me. I've been slogging through these forums since 2018 and I think (don't fact check me) I have the highest post count for the forums, like, ever lol. I'm always prepared for backlash from this place 🙂↕️🙂↕️
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Comments
Which is low-key kinda disappointing because the BP thing I get but ace in the hole like perks is such interesting design space but I doubt we're ever getting anything like it ever again.
I get the sentiment but having to run perks for BP is slapping a band-aid over a bullet hole. BP gains should be increased across the board and transparency about the BP economy (quest rewards, codes, Anniv Cake debacle) should be prioritized. As someone who ran BBQ every single game for YEARS because of the BP bonus, I would love if it never came back so I have the freedom for build diversity.
Seeing BBQ in literally every killer build gets old pretty quick. The old meta to hide in a locker before someone got hooked.
I really hope they plan some changes.
As said BP gains need to be boosted in general. The amount of killers and survs you have to unlock goes up more and more to ridiculous numbers of BP needed.
I am glad i have everything on 6+ on PC and everything except 13 killers on 6+ on PS5. I really don´t know if i would start playing DbD if i had to start from 0 again.
I loved the bbq meta, the killer always found someone after hooking so there was much less of an incentive to end chase and tunnel.
An excellent analysis my friend.
We are at the point where we have Bulk Spending because people accumulated so many BPs that it took so long to do the Bloodwebs. Back when BBQ and WGLF had their BP effects you could not even get a single Bloodweb done after a game, so I dont think that BP gains need to be boosted that much. Category caps should be removed, but thats about it.
Not really. As long as the Killer still got their rewards (BP stacks) after tunneling, there was not really an incentive to go after others. If BBQ would have stopped giving stacks after one Survivor is dead, it would have been way more healthy and then I would agree. But if the Killer can just tunnel someone out and still get full stacks, there is not much of an incentive.
@Topic:
It would not really make the game more healthy. As I said above, as long as the Killer can get full stacks despite tunneling, there would be nothing which would make the game more healthy. WGLF providing stacks would also not lead to healthy gameplay, if anything it would lead to hook rushing and taking stupid protection hits.
It is good how it is. WGLF and BBQ are taken for their effects and are not used on everyone for a few bonus BPs. Plus people would feel forced again to bring those Perks just to not miss out. And as I said earlier, the BP economy is way better nowadays than it was when BBQ and WGLF still provided stacks.
Despite many years BBQ is still my most run killer perk. That was my commitment to getting my stonks.
The side effect of old BBQ was going out of my way to get all four survs onto those hooks, naturally being anti tunnel in the process.
Gotta get my stonks! 😋
BBQ is not some magic bullet that makes killers not tunnel. It only cares about hooking each survivor at least once so killers can still quite easily tunnel out 1 survivor before starting to spread hooks.
Plus bloodpoint game is much better now than it was back when BBQ improved bloodpoint. Many killers are not going to chose to run BBQ and not tunnel for extra bloodpoints.
thats a thing with friends to the end rn anyways, no difference
not fond of bribing people to use certain loadouts but if it were to happen i would much rather there be some kind of 'perk of the week/month' system where a random/curated pool of perks has the incentive
could be used to highlight perks not in the meta that bhvr think deserve a second look from the community
I like your idea, I loed the BBQ and WGLF meta but
Counter offer
BP incentive for lower pick rate perks on a rotation weekly?
Heck make it
"Shrine Boost"
Current shrine perks gain a small multiplier to BP. Which might also encentivize people trying to find perks that work well with the shrine perks(though make it so the BP boost is tied to 1/1 perk requirement)
They HAVE released others tracking perks that have other activation requirements though. Back in the day, you could basically assume everyone was running BBQ. Even if they're running Friends like you mentioned, your not assuming anything since it basically announces itself to the 1 person its effecting.
"Back in my day the only tracking perk was BBQ ya young bloods don't understand what the other sp called tracking perks were l- ooo someone's in my basement territory value"
Don't ask where this came from I know not why my lexicon said to type this
We walked uphill both ways...
In ten feet of snow, in the blistering heat of summer......
I do wish that spreading hooks was incentivized like old BBQ did, but I don't see BHVR ever going back to perks giving bonus BP. I still miss old Distressing which helped me max out Deviousness faster.
I think killers should get basekit bonuses for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th hooks before getting a kill that is in a separate category so they could go above the 40k cap, up to 50k. It would be a way to incentivize the killer to make the match "sporting" for the Entity and would lead to survivors getting more points in those matches too which would make it a win-win.
Middle-point: Basekit WGLF and BBQ's old BP quests without the perks.
Those quests create a win-condition without requiring the opponent loses, and I fully believe that that is incredibly healthy, and that its removal did way more damage than people realise.
Just make some changes to BBQ like you get a token for every Survivor you hook for the first time until you hook someone twice.
So that you won´t get free Bps for tunneling and slugging for the 4k.
WGLF would be amazing in the Slug Meta right now. So encouraging its pick rate by BP Bonus would be great.
I mean, you hopefully mean as long as all 4 Survivors are alive, do you?
Because otherwise it would just be a free Bonus for Killer, since they would just tunnel someone out and then basically maximize their own BPs because they cannot lose at this point.
Agreed, I think any improvement to the base BP economy would be a net boon to the community and I love the idea of ingame rewards/incentives for a certain playstyle
BBQ is still a heavily used Perk without the BP.
Of course. I omitted the most important part. 😅
Edited it to fix.
The bulk spending is mostly used by pretty hardcore or long time players. I was talking about new players.
The average match without an event is often maybe 15k-40k (with cakes) for them. We need like 440 Million BP at the moment for P3.
I think as veteran you can´t imagine normal players anymore. Regular match BPs needs a boost - especially for new players, longterm players don´t care much anymore.
As Doctor i used Distressing which also had a nice BP Bonus. I remember i was pretty sad when they removed it.
Still you only need to P1 characters to get access to the perks. Going over that is not needed only thing P2 and P3 does is make the perks automatically unlocked on tier 2 and 3 on other characters. You can still get perks to tier 3 using the bloodweb on other characters after you P1 another character.
Ah yeah, right. I forgot :-)
Then it is still like 147 Million BPs. Still huge imo.
I agree, sort of.
The effects should honestly be basekit. Unique hooking someone grants bonus BP, which is removed if you hook the same survivor immediately after. Unhooking a survivor grants bonus BP, which is removed if it isn't a safe unhook. Taking protection hits & getting saves also increases BP gain. Caps out at a bonus of, say, 300% (with each "trigger" granting 25% post-game).
This would incentivise unique hooking, and continuing the hook cycle, encouraging 12 hook games over bleeding out and actually giving killers a reason to hook and deal with the DS/DH/Shoulder etc that comes with not just slugging. Moreover, it would incentivise survivors to play altruistically, taking hits, getting saves, and most crucially not doing generators. The BP being tied to perks kinda sucked - BBQ is to this day my most used killer perk ever despite me not running it since 6.1.0 in 202
12 - because you'd know everyone was using the perks, and you'd feel forced to use the perks - but I genuinely believe that a lot of the more casual players just need another reason to hook (in general), and cycle 12 hooks. Instead of punishing "less desirable" gameplay strategies (ie. holding gens for 65 seconds before attempting an unhook & slugging/tunnelling/camping) we should encourage the "more desirable" strategies insteadI agree with you, but sadly some people claim
Tunneling will still happen so because it will still happen it won't work. But let's be honest unless you straight up make it impossible that croud won't be happy because tunneling will still happen.
There will always be this group who will do so.
True, but it isn't like giving a BP incentive for unique hooks is going to make tunneling more common either.
It'd just be a nice feature that does double duty of hopefully making Tunneling a bit less common tactic, and reducing the grind.
I can't see a downside to the mechanic, honestly.
Oh I'm not disagreeing, I just wanted to let them know that they should be prepared for the potential backlash from said individuals.
I loved old BBQ and WGLF bonus because it could potentially promote a decent game rythym.
I appreciate the concern, but don't worry about me. I've been slogging through these forums since 2018 and I think (don't fact check me) I have the highest post count for the forums, like, ever lol. I'm always prepared for backlash from this place 🙂↕️🙂↕️
Brown addons still provide a BP bonus, I do not see why they got rid of it for perks.
I can agree with you on Distressing as for most killers it is trading a disadvantage for a BP bonus just like all the brown addons do.
But for Barbecue & Chili, We're Gonna Live Forever and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt they were advantageous perks with a BP bonus stacked on top.